Lauren, you've outdone yourself yet again with the family lineage and the animation. Music was wonderful too. Special shout-out to Todd for his wonderful artwork.
This video is soooo good. Thank you so much for the family tree animations! Really good explanation. I remember trying to explain this all to a friend during his first read of the books, and it just all got tangled. Now I have this video to refer to!
Thank you Lauren for another excellent and clarifying explanation of the relationships. I'd totally forgotten Lord Luc's connection to Lan. Not sure I was aware Thom killed Morgase's consort. Glad to have you back. Not sure how much Rafe will be able to include of Mat's story as the Battle for Two Rivers has to be included as well
I love all you brought together about Mat's possible arc and I now demand every single moment! In honesty, I'm not sure if they can fit all that in, however I think that it is the way they are heading. I feel that Mat will only go through one doorway and his experiences will be an amalgamation of both in the books. I just don't think they have time to pull off a repeat beat that may not make enough sense to non readers. Of course I want all the Mat and Finn we can get, personally! thanks for this breakdown, it's fabulous!
@@gokbay3057 yes, even tho we want the snakes and the foxes separate, that isn't of enough importance in the big picture - having 'the Finn' and all it changes for Mat just seems too much to leave out completely, and I agree it could be done elegantly - nicely said
There could be a Red Doorframe in the Panarch's palace in Tanchico. Remember there is a huge collection of artifacts there. They could move the Doorframe from Tear (or Rhuidean) to Tanchico and have much the same effect.
I'm glad you agree with me that the opportunity exists for them to reset Mat at the Tower with the healing. I'm not at all confident that it's what they'll do. But it could happen. Now about Galad. Notice that they say Lord Galad "of House Trakand." I think it's significant that they don't just say Galad Trakand and Gawyn Trakand. This isn't to deny that it could be very convenient from a show perspective to just sweep the lineage thing under the rug. But my understanding is that just because you are "of" a noble house doesn't necessarily mean that you carry the surname.
We definitely need the Mat & Thom spinoff series. lol Mat is my favourite, so I hope he does get some of his actual story... the dagger on a pole had better not be it... I hope you're right... but I have a feeling that a lot of his story will be left out. :( Great video!
I have read this series a few times and I struggle with my memory. Thank you for explaining things to me I had forgotten about 🤩🥰 great job! Awesome family tree 🙌
I think it's quite possible we only get one Redstone doorway trip for Mat, and that it happens in the first episode or two before the character split off from each other (Rafe has said everyone will be together in the beginning), allowing Rand to save him as in the book. If there is a Redstone doorway trip in Tanchico, I'd put odds on it being Tuon in disguise who saves him.
Her becoming unhinged followed her hanging out with Fain..... as happens with many others. It's always been my theory THAT'S why it seems so jarring to her make crazy choices she's been corrupted by Mordeth/Fain.
I think a lot of what your suggesting is interesting and I also hope they stay a little bit more close to the books. so far I am enjoying what they are doing
There have been enough divergences from the books that I’d suggest we’re looking at same characters, but the third age in a different turn of the wheel. I have the books on audio and noted the narration lengths: 24 to 41 hours per book. It’s just not possible to present that much material in TV seasons with 8 one-hour episodes per book… or per two books… unless you do major rewrites and abridging.
@@nan7861 I agree I first started reading these back in the 80's and 90's and yes I have followed from when they were being released first in hard cover then when they were released on paperback. I also own them on audiobook. they are making changes but I think for what they are trying to do they are doing a decent job of interpreting it to video and yes it would take a great commitment of many years to do it proper justice and many more than 8 episodes per season. when I see tv series that go 5, 10 or even 20 seasons I feel let down and I know they can not secure that type of funding but B5 had a solid 5 year plan and would hope Amazon would allow at least that for this series
If we get Slayer, it'll definitely be after Perrin's Season 3 arc. He has a lot going on this season if it's anything like the books, including returning to the Two Rivers, dealing with Whitecloaks, meeting Faile, setting up a makeshift army, and the big battle. Season 4, if approved, would be a good starting point for Slayer v. Perrin while he tries to learn how to lead in the Two Rivers. I think we're honestly boned with Mat's arc. Brandon Sanderson's viewing of the S2 finale implied that the script writing was inferring that spear is going to be his ashandarei (I'm sure he'll make a more officially/pretty version, but it would be redundant to get another god-tier spear/halberd that can do similar things). Blowing the Horn of Valere clearly granted him memories of his past lives because he realized he was a Hero of the Horn. I just don't see why we would need either of these things to happen again on screen. The only things they have to solve are the Foxhead Medallion and the Give-Up-An-Eye / Daughter-Of-The-Nine-Moons prophecies. I CAN see one or both of those happening this season. If he's dealing with the Andoran story at first, Elaida could be a great source of the prophecy through a random Foretelling. As to the Foxhead Medallion, I think the most elegant method for introducing that would be as loot from the Black Sisters at the end of Tanchico. Just have it be one of the many items they snatch on their way out of the White Tower. You can even have the big fight in Tanchico involve some spells fizzling against Liandrin, but they find another way to outsmart her, and Mat snatches up the Medallion after she's captured/beaten. Mat's arc for Season 4 would probably deal with the growing Dragonsworn (RIP Masema, I guess maybe Mat could become the Prophet? LOL) and just tie that in with the Band of the Red Hand. Assuming he's supposed to briefly die during the fight against Gaebril/whoever, his plot will need to take him back to Andor or Cairhien (whichever they choose to use for the fight) at some point. If he has a romance in Season 3 at any point, I'd be suspicious of it. It's very likely it could be a substitute for the Darkfriend he ends up with in Fires of Heaven.
I would love that as Mat's story arc! I could totally see a redstone doorway in TV and then one in Tanchico! I'm probably in a minority, but it wouldn't bother me at all if the whole Slayer storyline was cut.
I've read books several times, but I missed (or maybe just forgot) the fact that Thom killed Taringail and that Luc was Tigraine's brother (Rand's uncle, wow), merging with Lan's cousin... thanks for the info.
I've assumed since we learned that Liandrin's son was named "Aludran" that we aren't going to get Aludra ... and maybe we won't even get the Illuminators at all.
Good job! 😀 Now I am increasingly worried about how the show can alter enough of the books to make a coherent story throughout without changing the core story too much. Having a show more true to the source as S3 is promised to be might help, and some eccess fat can surely be trimmed from the grand tome that is WoT. Just... Amazon, play nice! 😓
I’m not expecting any clarification on Galad’s parentage until season 3 airs. At least in my country, adopted children usually inherit their adoptive parent’s surname and even the first name often changes, so the surname in the announcement doesn’t prove anything. I would really prefer it if they kept Galad as a half-brother and did something the Rand connection. The books didn't do much with it but Anvaere didn't exactly have a major role either. I think the double uncle thing in particular is amusing - imagine Galad asking Elayne to confirm just who the father of her babies is after the Last Battle. Since they’re apparently going through all the trouble of explaining the succession war, the change of royal dynasty, Elaida’s foretelling and Rand’s mom being the former Daughter-Heir, they might as well keep the half-brother part. If they were committed to simplifying the family tree, they could easily have made Rand’s mom a born Aiel woman named Shaiel but they didn’t.
Yeah, I would have to agree that they probably wouldn't have Shaiel be Tigraine if they planned to cut/change Galad being Rand's half brother. It is kinda weird how Galad is a Damodred in the books though. Going by Gawyn and Elayne shouldn't he be a Mantear? I suppose because his mom was never queen it doesn't work like that (and also Damodreds being royalty when Tigraine was married Taringaill but losing their throne with the Aiel War, which is probably around the time of Morgase's marriage).
@@gokbay3057 I agree on his book surname being weird. When he was born, he was expected to become First Prince of the Sword to the full sister he never had. I think one of two things happened. Firstly, maybe he was born a Mantear and it was changed later for political reasons. Alternatively, Tigraine and Taringail had an agreement that their daughters would be Mantears and sons Damodreds. After all, Taringail wanted his son to become king of Cairhien.
Lauren you are very good I was re-reading the book mentioned that Morgaise husband took her name from Damodred to Trakand, and many in Chairhan suspected why, or suspected like you stated, and for what purpose, he was going to have himself first King of Cameyln. Robert Jordan said he called himself Trakand and that makes it easier for the people not to see a Damodred on the throne. Took his wife's name, sir name. Is this the author foreshadowing of Lord Gabreil during the wars of Royal succesion. ❤😂❤❤
@UnravelingthePattern I think it is the talks with Royals of Camelyn he asks one of them why are you starring or looking at me so much. Because I think the author was going to make more of it at the time and changed his mind. It was clear, I did not pick up the point until the third time. It's quick and I think only mentioned once but hinted at a Masedonian de coup de tah, you know that the families after Alexander the great were very vicious and would use poison and killing of siblings. Robert Jordan would know about this and he liked to use actual history as a guide. It was after the killing of Rahvine for sure. And before book 11. It just comes and goes so fast one line, one time in a talk about Rands lineage and the game of houses and the war games of the HIGH Nobels.
@@UnravelingthePattern I think. Rafe Judkins, I think 🤔 he knows this, and he has learned it's not good to go against cannon, so he wants to out do everyone, and it's easier for him to go off on a tangent in an area that is not spelled out in the books. Your videos are very very good.
@UnravelingthePattern IT might be when Rand and min go the traitor Cairhans and he has a disguise and one of the Cairhanian Female Lord's call him cousin, and she is amazed how good he is with the sword, a blademaster. Min has a vision of her marrying the future king of Tear. So on another 📝, is Camelyn England, and Cairhan is France 🇫🇷. Kind of like an initial model France has always been turbulent, politically? RJ was a massive history buff.
Honestly I always thought Shohreh would be a better Elaida than Cadsuane. I feel like she's not old enough for Cadsuane. Cads should have grey hair (I know an actors natural hair colour doesn't really matter all that much, hence Rosamund in WoT or Emilia Clarke in GoT, but Shohreh still felt too young for Cadsuane to me (despite being 72, I think her energy is a lot closer to 50s-60s)).
Another great video! Your hypothesis for Mat's arc makes a lot of sense. It would finally bring him back into the story. And nice work, Todd! SPOILER AHEAD, READ AT YOUR OWN RISK! They have to make Mat go through at least one door frame to get his "gear" and memories. I can't believe they will keep this stupid pole + Shadar Logoth dagger as replacement for his Ashandarei. If he keeps the dagger like that, it''s very unrealistic that neither he nor anyone else would manage to never touch it. Even if they cut the Aelfinn and Eelfinn, what Mat experiences through the door frames becomes part of him for the rest of the story line. And without that, Mat wouldn't be Mat.
I'm struck how in the press release regarding the Andoran royal house, they state that Andor is a matriarchy. I wonder if there is a hidden reason for this. Thoughts?
As Lauren pointed out, Andor is literally a Queendom in the books. Tbh of all the nations in the Westlands/Wetlands it is probably the closest to being a matriarchy behind perhaps Tar Valon and Far Madding (Ebou Dar could be a maybe, but northern Altara doesn't really have the same culture as the city so putting the nation as a whole in there might be unfair, and they also accept kings unlike Andor).
@gokbay3057 I mean that I wonder if they are hinting that perhaps they were hinting that a certain man mentioned within the release would seek to change that
I think i was a bit wrong here. It's always ruled by Queens, but that doesn't necessarily make it a matriarchy. But I think the show wasn't thinking about the nuances of this in their press release and neither was I. I do wonder if the showrunner has something different in mind.
They should hire you Lauren. It was so beautifully and skilfully done. I cant wait to see what they do with season 3 and as always wish to god they had more episodes but your videos keep the hope and excitement alive. Thank you for all you do. ❤
NOOOO Cadsuane was one of the best characters, she needs to be on the show. Cadsuane carries Moiraine`s role as the dragon`s tutor, it`s through her we understand better how Moiraine was failing and also how she would have course corrected her teaching if she kept around Rand.
Nope. I think they aren’t going to get into the Trakand/Damodred connection. MAYBE later when it’s time to have Elayne visit Cairien (sp?)…. And…Well, you know.
Umm, I think talking about Taringail trying to kill Morgase is a major plot reveal if this is for non-book readers. That was not common knowledge at first, and only few new of it in the show.
I feel like that's pretty minor personally, as that character isn't even alive when the series starts. Do you remember when that particular detail is revealed?
@@UnravelingthePattern I believe it's when Moiraine is talking one on one with Thom before they go to Tanchico (Where I hear the tanning is quite good!)
Most of Cadsuane’s screen time is from when Moiraine is presumed dead. Moiraine can come back earlier and handle Cadsuane’s role. It will keep Rosamund Pike on screen and they won’t need to hire another actress.
as much as I like the snakes and foxes, considering what they left out in the show already, I would much rather have them ignore the entire finn storyline and instead show some others properly
@ glad I’m not the only one, kinda sucks thinking that people that don’t know Robert Jordan’s work might think its not comparable to The Hobbit books because of this trash series 😂
Why is the show not taking its time and skipping over so much of these books? The Game of Thrones was slow and I had a lot of talking and I don’t know why they’re skipping out on all the important points in these books.
They are not skipping all the important points in the books, this question is predicated on a false assertion. The first episode has the attack on the Two Rivers, the inciting incident which is a major plot point in the books. The second episode they get to Shadar Logoth, which is a major plot point in the books. I could go on but I've made my point. Why is the show not taking its time? Modern streaming services model for television presentation. They only get 8 episodes a season and they are not getting 15 seasons to cover all 15 books and those episodes are usually less than but close to 60 min runtime. So they've got 7 hours and change in a season to tell the main story within those bulky books. That's why we are not spending a full episode or two in Fal Dara before beginning the Hunt for the Horn.
@@dustinbridges6831 I think that's a very fair assessment and it makes me wonder what might've been had the show been structured around 12+ episodes per season instead of 8.
Each of the 14 core books has an audiobook narration time of 24 to 41 hours. So some very serious abridging is required to reduce the story to seasons with eight one-hour episodes and each season covering most of two books. I started enjoying the TV series a lot better when I decided that I was looking at the same characters, but the Third Age in a different turn of the wheel.
That's fair, but do you still think Mat should get his Ashandarei and foxhead medallion? And do you think he should be told of his fate? If so, how should that happen?
@UnravelingthePattern i think he will seek out the tea again and that he will at least game the knowledge they're drinking from season two. Perhaps even the ashanderei will materialize when he wakes up hung.
@@UnravelingthePattern I would LOVE for them to do the snakes and foxes...it would make for some awesome cinematography and what happens while Mat is in their realm affects him so much! He is my favorite character and I would be sad if we didn't get any of this...I mean...especially the second visit is very intense and making the janky architecture for the show would be amazing and mind-bending! If they do it well it could be AMAZING as well as really important to the plot.
People who want to talk about the Wheel of Time while having a good time on social media. People who are not addicted to outrage. People who don't want their social media app run by an inept, wingnut Bond villain in the midst of a midlife crisis who has abused his position to turn a once useful tool into a rancid, festering dung heap of malefactors, liars, and the bot accounts they freely run.
I hope that the actor who plays Matt will be changed with the one from season 1 or another, because this one is very untalented, doesn't have the proper look. Such a pity for the character to be played by the actor from season 2. The one who appeared in season 1 was way more talented
Lauren, you've outdone yourself yet again with the family lineage and the animation. Music was wonderful too. Special shout-out to Todd for his wonderful artwork.
As always, an immaculate breakdown of this masterpiece of a story.
This video is soooo good. Thank you so much for the family tree animations! Really good explanation. I remember trying to explain this all to a friend during his first read of the books, and it just all got tangled. Now I have this video to refer to!
I need all the Wheel of Time lineages videos stat!
That would be fun to do!
Came here to say the same!! Great video, Lauren ❤
We have a lot less of it, but it is so convoluted that we can match ASOIAF family trees in complexity.
I love Wheel of Time lol.
Thanks Nerdygunz! You've always been so supportive, I appreciate it so much!
including the one that explains the layout of the glass columns in Rhuidean - could you please have that done by next week?
Thank you Lauren for another excellent and clarifying explanation of the relationships. I'd totally forgotten Lord Luc's connection to Lan. Not sure I was aware Thom killed Morgase's consort. Glad to have you back. Not sure how much Rafe will be able to include of Mat's story as the Battle for Two Rivers has to be included as well
Love the theories for Mat. I hope we get something along those lines.
I love all you brought together about Mat's possible arc and I now demand every single moment!
In honesty, I'm not sure if they can fit all that in, however I think that it is the way they are heading. I feel that Mat will only go through one doorway and his experiences will be an amalgamation of both in the books. I just don't think they have time to pull off a repeat beat that may not make enough sense to non readers. Of course I want all the Mat and Finn we can get, personally!
thanks for this breakdown, it's fabulous!
I mean, how can they not have Dónal Finn NOT meet the Finn? That just seems like cruel Casting Dae Mar.
@rapunzl347 right!?
Oh, combining both Finn/Doorways sequences into one is something that could be done relatively elegantly.
@@gokbay3057 yes, even tho we want the snakes and the foxes separate, that isn't of enough importance in the big picture - having 'the Finn' and all it changes for Mat just seems too much to leave out completely, and I agree it could be done elegantly - nicely said
@@rapunzl347 exactamundo !
There could be a Red Doorframe in the Panarch's palace in Tanchico. Remember there is a huge collection of artifacts there. They could move the Doorframe from Tear (or Rhuidean) to Tanchico and have much the same effect.
I am not certain it will happen but yes, that was also something I considered and is certainly possible.
I'm glad you agree with me that the opportunity exists for them to reset Mat at the Tower with the healing. I'm not at all confident that it's what they'll do. But it could happen.
Now about Galad. Notice that they say Lord Galad "of House Trakand." I think it's significant that they don't just say Galad Trakand and Gawyn Trakand. This isn't to deny that it could be very convenient from a show perspective to just sweep the lineage thing under the rug. But my understanding is that just because you are "of" a noble house doesn't necessarily mean that you carry the surname.
Great point.
can you remind me where that is stated - on the tweet announcing them it just says Luke Fetherston is Lord GAWYN, Callum Kerr is Lord GALAD
@@koalasedai It's in the official press release.
Yes, the official press release.
Galad Damondred, why would his surname change?
We definitely need the Mat & Thom spinoff series. lol Mat is my favourite, so I hope he does get some of his actual story... the dagger on a pole had better not be it... I hope you're right... but I have a feeling that a lot of his story will be left out. :(
Great video!
Great roundup of the cast news. I'm sooo excited!!
Great theories! Hoping for the best!
I have read this series a few times and I struggle with my memory. Thank you for explaining things to me I had forgotten about 🤩🥰 great job! Awesome family tree 🙌
I think it's quite possible we only get one Redstone doorway trip for Mat, and that it happens in the first episode or two before the character split off from each other (Rafe has said everyone will be together in the beginning), allowing Rand to save him as in the book. If there is a Redstone doorway trip in Tanchico, I'd put odds on it being Tuon in disguise who saves him.
Hey I'll take one Redstone doorway over none!
@@UnravelingthePattern me too!
Love that Thom is the Mystery assasin..
@@emilvibes straight up just did this to my wife lol. She’s never read the books.
So uh spoiler.
@@AloisiaSedaihe straight up said that lol
I hope they write Elaida better as she falls. It seemed odd in the books that she was suddenly so incompetent.
Her time with Padan Fain had something to do with that.
Her becoming unhinged followed her hanging out with Fain..... as happens with many others. It's always been my theory THAT'S why it seems so jarring to her make crazy choices she's been corrupted by Mordeth/Fain.
@@matsdaggerx3141 I thought as a channeler that she was more resistant to that taint than a regular person.
@UnderOpenSkies not from the evil of Shadar Logoth
@@UnderOpenSkies the only ones I can think of that seemed to be “resistant” was Moiraine and Egwene in Fal Dara.
The work you do is always so beautiful! Thank you for everything you do!
much Ji - Finntastic stuff - respects to you and all those you hold dear this festive season
I think a lot of what your suggesting is interesting and I also hope they stay a little bit more close to the books. so far I am enjoying what they are doing
There have been enough divergences from the books that I’d suggest we’re looking at same characters, but the third age in a different turn of the wheel.
I have the books on audio and noted the narration lengths: 24 to 41 hours per book. It’s just not possible to present that much material in TV seasons with 8 one-hour episodes per book… or per two books… unless you do major rewrites and abridging.
@@nan7861 I agree I first started reading these back in the 80's and 90's and yes I have followed from when they were being released first in hard cover then when they were released on paperback. I also own them on audiobook. they are making changes but I think for what they are trying to do they are doing a decent job of interpreting it to video and yes it would take a great commitment of many years to do it proper justice and many more than 8 episodes per season. when I see tv series that go 5, 10 or even 20 seasons I feel let down and I know they can not secure that type of funding but B5 had a solid 5 year plan and would hope Amazon would allow at least that for this series
We are so back.
If we get Slayer, it'll definitely be after Perrin's Season 3 arc. He has a lot going on this season if it's anything like the books, including returning to the Two Rivers, dealing with Whitecloaks, meeting Faile, setting up a makeshift army, and the big battle. Season 4, if approved, would be a good starting point for Slayer v. Perrin while he tries to learn how to lead in the Two Rivers.
I think we're honestly boned with Mat's arc. Brandon Sanderson's viewing of the S2 finale implied that the script writing was inferring that spear is going to be his ashandarei (I'm sure he'll make a more officially/pretty version, but it would be redundant to get another god-tier spear/halberd that can do similar things). Blowing the Horn of Valere clearly granted him memories of his past lives because he realized he was a Hero of the Horn. I just don't see why we would need either of these things to happen again on screen. The only things they have to solve are the Foxhead Medallion and the Give-Up-An-Eye / Daughter-Of-The-Nine-Moons prophecies. I CAN see one or both of those happening this season. If he's dealing with the Andoran story at first, Elaida could be a great source of the prophecy through a random Foretelling. As to the Foxhead Medallion, I think the most elegant method for introducing that would be as loot from the Black Sisters at the end of Tanchico. Just have it be one of the many items they snatch on their way out of the White Tower. You can even have the big fight in Tanchico involve some spells fizzling against Liandrin, but they find another way to outsmart her, and Mat snatches up the Medallion after she's captured/beaten.
Mat's arc for Season 4 would probably deal with the growing Dragonsworn (RIP Masema, I guess maybe Mat could become the Prophet? LOL) and just tie that in with the Band of the Red Hand. Assuming he's supposed to briefly die during the fight against Gaebril/whoever, his plot will need to take him back to Andor or Cairhien (whichever they choose to use for the fight) at some point. If he has a romance in Season 3 at any point, I'd be suspicious of it. It's very likely it could be a substitute for the Darkfriend he ends up with in Fires of Heaven.
Good thoughts. I hope you're wrong, haha, but i could see much of what you say being true.
Excellent work as always! You are a maestro!
Great video, really pumped for season 3!
I would love that as Mat's story arc! I could totally see a redstone doorway in TV and then one in Tanchico!
I'm probably in a minority, but it wouldn't bother me at all if the whole Slayer storyline was cut.
I've read books several times, but I missed (or maybe just forgot) the fact that Thom killed Taringail and that Luc was Tigraine's brother (Rand's uncle, wow), merging with Lan's cousin... thanks for the info.
I've assumed since we learned that Liandrin's son was named "Aludran" that we aren't going to get Aludra ... and maybe we won't even get the Illuminators at all.
Great video, as always. ❤
Awesome stuff!
what alt shift x did for game of thrones, you are doing for wheel of time. thank you
What a huge compliment. Thank you!
Agreed ❤
Good job! 😀 Now I am increasingly worried about how the show can alter enough of the books to make a coherent story throughout without changing the core story too much. Having a show more true to the source as S3 is promised to be might help, and some eccess fat can surely be trimmed from the grand tome that is WoT. Just... Amazon, play nice! 😓
I hope you are right about Mat. We did not get enough in s2 ;_;
Great video!!✌🏽
Im so excited! 🎉😂
Those 3 Mat Todd Draws in a row are iconic
I’m not expecting any clarification on Galad’s parentage until season 3 airs. At least in my country, adopted children usually inherit their adoptive parent’s surname and even the first name often changes, so the surname in the announcement doesn’t prove anything. I would really prefer it if they kept Galad as a half-brother and did something the Rand connection. The books didn't do much with it but Anvaere didn't exactly have a major role either. I think the double uncle thing in particular is amusing - imagine Galad asking Elayne to confirm just who the father of her babies is after the Last Battle.
Since they’re apparently going through all the trouble of explaining the succession war, the change of royal dynasty, Elaida’s foretelling and Rand’s mom being the former Daughter-Heir, they might as well keep the half-brother part. If they were committed to simplifying the family tree, they could easily have made Rand’s mom a born Aiel woman named Shaiel but they didn’t.
Yeah, I would have to agree that they probably wouldn't have Shaiel be Tigraine if they planned to cut/change Galad being Rand's half brother.
It is kinda weird how Galad is a Damodred in the books though. Going by Gawyn and Elayne shouldn't he be a Mantear? I suppose because his mom was never queen it doesn't work like that (and also Damodreds being royalty when Tigraine was married Taringaill but losing their throne with the Aiel War, which is probably around the time of Morgase's marriage).
@@gokbay3057 I agree on his book surname being weird. When he was born, he was expected to become First Prince of the Sword to the full sister he never had. I think one of two things happened. Firstly, maybe he was born a Mantear and it was changed later for political reasons. Alternatively, Tigraine and Taringail had an agreement that their daughters would be Mantears and sons Damodreds. After all, Taringail wanted his son to become king of Cairhien.
Shoreh!! ❤
Lauren you are very good I was re-reading the book mentioned that Morgaise husband took her name from Damodred to Trakand, and many in Chairhan suspected why, or suspected like you stated, and for what purpose, he was going to have himself first King of Cameyln. Robert Jordan said he called himself Trakand and that makes it easier for the people not to see a Damodred on the throne. Took his wife's name, sir name. Is this the author foreshadowing of Lord Gabreil during the wars of Royal succesion. ❤😂❤❤
Great points! Do you remember where this is mentioned?
@UnravelingthePattern I think it is the talks with Royals of Camelyn he asks one of them why are you starring or looking at me so much. Because I think the author was going to make more of it at the time and changed his mind. It was clear, I did not pick up the point until the third time. It's quick and I think only mentioned once but hinted at a Masedonian de coup de tah, you know that the families after Alexander the great were very vicious and would use poison and killing of siblings. Robert Jordan would know about this and he liked to use actual history as a guide. It was after the killing of Rahvine for sure. And before book 11. It just comes and goes so fast one line, one time in a talk about Rands lineage and the game of houses and the war games of the HIGH Nobels.
@paulkal6851 I think that's Dylin, and I think it's book 6, Lord of Chaos. Thanks, I'll go re-read and see if I pick up on anything new!
@@UnravelingthePattern I think. Rafe Judkins, I think 🤔 he knows this, and he has learned it's not good to go against cannon, so he wants to out do everyone, and it's easier for him to go off on a tangent in an area that is not spelled out in the books. Your videos are very very good.
@UnravelingthePattern IT might be when Rand and min go the traitor Cairhans and he has a disguise and one of the Cairhanian Female Lord's call him cousin, and she is amazed how good he is with the sword, a blademaster. Min has a vision of her marrying the future king of Tear. So on another 📝, is Camelyn England, and Cairhan is France 🇫🇷. Kind of like an initial model France has always been turbulent, politically? RJ was a massive history buff.
Rafe / Amazon would do well to hire Lauren in some official capacity.
I like your take on Matt’s story for season 3. I don’t think they can fit it all in though. I hope I’m wrong
Can you tell us which is the name of the piano piece you use at 2:38, please?
Thanks for another high-quality video, as always.
That complexity is why I love the books. There is no way they're doing that on the show.
Honestly I always thought Shohreh would be a better Elaida than Cadsuane. I feel like she's not old enough for Cadsuane. Cads should have grey hair (I know an actors natural hair colour doesn't really matter all that much, hence Rosamund in WoT or Emilia Clarke in GoT, but Shohreh still felt too young for Cadsuane to me (despite being 72, I think her energy is a lot closer to 50s-60s)).
Completely agree!
Another great video! Your hypothesis for Mat's arc makes a lot of sense. It would finally bring him back into the story. And nice work, Todd!
SPOILER AHEAD, READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!
They have to make Mat go through at least one door frame to get his "gear" and memories. I can't believe they will keep this stupid pole + Shadar Logoth dagger as replacement for his Ashandarei. If he keeps the dagger like that, it''s very unrealistic that neither he nor anyone else would manage to never touch it. Even if they cut the Aelfinn and Eelfinn, what Mat experiences through the door frames becomes part of him for the rest of the story line. And without that, Mat wouldn't be Mat.
This
Hold up, after reading the books 4 times did I miss Rand being Galads half brother????? Or is Tigraine not Rands mother??!?! How did I miss that??
Correct! Tigraine is Shaiel. Rand and Galad's mother!
@ I for some reason think I had known that and forgot lol. I learn something new every time ai read them again. Lol. So many storylines.
Only one doorway for Matt
Amazing work Lauren. I hope they stick to you Matt plotline as it would get things back on track nicely. The family tree segment was *chefs kiss*
I'm struck how in the press release regarding the Andoran royal house, they state that Andor is a matriarchy. I wonder if there is a hidden reason for this. Thoughts?
I mean, that is how it is in the books.
EDIT: see my comment below for clarification.
As Lauren pointed out, Andor is literally a Queendom in the books. Tbh of all the nations in the Westlands/Wetlands it is probably the closest to being a matriarchy behind perhaps Tar Valon and Far Madding (Ebou Dar could be a maybe, but northern Altara doesn't really have the same culture as the city so putting the nation as a whole in there might be unfair, and they also accept kings unlike Andor).
@gokbay3057 I mean that I wonder if they are hinting that perhaps they were hinting that a certain man mentioned within the release would seek to change that
I think i was a bit wrong here. It's always ruled by Queens, but that doesn't necessarily make it a matriarchy. But I think the show wasn't thinking about the nuances of this in their press release and neither was I. I do wonder if the showrunner has something different in mind.
@UnravelingthePattern The show has certainlu been good in surprising us. Lol
In my mind, Andie MacDowell would be the perfect Cadsuane Melaidhrin.
I really need me those snakes and foxes
They should hire you Lauren. It was so beautifully and skilfully done. I cant wait to see what they do with season 3 and as always wish to god they had more episodes but your videos keep the hope and excitement alive. Thank you for all you do. ❤
Matt giving up half the light was referenced in season 2 during Rands Ishmael driven dream where he was looking at all of the Two Riverd folk dead
Excellent rundown. Thanks! I do have some cognitive dissonance from the Todd draws cartoons being abruptly interjected. It's a jarring style change.
Lol, I don't know what else I could've possi ly put into that section. I love Todd Draws!
NOOOO Cadsuane was one of the best characters, she needs to be on the show. Cadsuane carries Moiraine`s role as the dragon`s tutor, it`s through her we understand better how Moiraine was failing and also how she would have course corrected her teaching if she kept around Rand.
Nooooo I would have loved her as Cadsuane :( lol
I want to know nothing but thanks lol
Nope. I think they aren’t going to get into the Trakand/Damodred connection. MAYBE later when it’s time to have Elayne visit Cairien (sp?)…. And…Well, you know.
Umm, I think talking about Taringail trying to kill Morgase is a major plot reveal if this is for non-book readers. That was not common knowledge at first, and only few new of it in the show.
I feel like that's pretty minor personally, as that character isn't even alive when the series starts. Do you remember when that particular detail is revealed?
That's why he gave the spoiler warning!
@@UnravelingthePattern I believe it's when Moiraine is talking one on one with Thom before they go to Tanchico (Where I hear the tanning is quite good!)
@@matsdaggerx3141yeah, it’s definitely spelled out in tSR17.
I honestly cannot remember, it was mentioned/hinted a couple times.@@UnravelingthePattern
Laman's fubar
Uhhhh why would they cut Cadsuane out, SHE IS ABSOLUTLEY ESSENTIAL
I know some people feel that way, I do not. However, if it makes you feel better, she was mentioned in S2 by Elayne so there's hope!
Most of Cadsuane’s screen time is from when Moiraine is presumed dead. Moiraine can come back earlier and handle Cadsuane’s role. It will keep Rosamund Pike on screen and they won’t need to hire another actress.
@BobWill731 that's my hope too.
as much as I like the snakes and foxes, considering what they left out in the show already, I would much rather have them ignore the entire finn storyline and instead show some others properly
How could you suggest cutting my favorite secondary character, Cadsuane?
They better put in the scene where rand tries to reanimate the dead girl that gets killed in front of them if they don't this show is dead to me
I'm pretty sure that scene will be in S3 but not in the same place. I think it will happen in the Aiel Waste.
@@UnravelingthePattern I think it happened in the 4th book after he got the sword
Yes, in the books it happened in the Stone of Tear after a Trolloc attack.
Won't happen. They already did that when Nynaeve did this and SUCEEDED ffs!
Yes lorewise it should never happen.
@anestis7509 that was the best scene in like the first 5 books to me at least
Mat and Thom spinoff..yes please
Is series good, I turned it off after the scene on first episode when Grolicks invaded😂,
Wise move! It sucks bigtime and corrupts all the central ideas of the books.
@ glad I’m not the only one, kinda sucks thinking that people that don’t know Robert Jordan’s work might think its not comparable to The Hobbit books because of this trash series 😂
"i have a thing for older persian women????" ROSAMUND
Yeah but what about farmers? Would Rand and Elayne be considered related if they were farmers? xD
Why is the show not taking its time and skipping over so much of these books? The Game of Thrones was slow and I had a lot of talking and I don’t know why they’re skipping out on all the important points in these books.
They are not skipping all the important points in the books, this question is predicated on a false assertion. The first episode has the attack on the Two Rivers, the inciting incident which is a major plot point in the books. The second episode they get to Shadar Logoth, which is a major plot point in the books. I could go on but I've made my point.
Why is the show not taking its time? Modern streaming services model for television presentation. They only get 8 episodes a season and they are not getting 15 seasons to cover all 15 books and those episodes are usually less than but close to 60 min runtime. So they've got 7 hours and change in a season to tell the main story within those bulky books. That's why we are not spending a full episode or two in Fal Dara before beginning the Hunt for the Horn.
@ My point is we are losing a lot of perspectives by leaving out some of these conversations and running past others too quickly
@@dustinbridges6831 I think that's a very fair assessment and it makes me wonder what might've been had the show been structured around 12+ episodes per season instead of 8.
@ I agree.
Each of the 14 core books has an audiobook narration time of 24 to 41 hours. So some very serious abridging is required to reduce the story to seasons with eight one-hour episodes and each season covering most of two books.
I started enjoying the TV series a lot better when I decided that I was looking at the same characters, but the Third Age in a different turn of the wheel.
No snakes and foxes. It's too much. I would much rather they focus om telaranrhiod.
That's fair, but do you still think Mat should get his Ashandarei and foxhead medallion? And do you think he should be told of his fate? If so, how should that happen?
@UnravelingthePattern i think he will seek out the tea again and that he will at least game the knowledge they're drinking from season two. Perhaps even the ashanderei will materialize when he wakes up hung.
@@UnravelingthePattern I would LOVE for them to do the snakes and foxes...it would make for some awesome cinematography and what happens while Mat is in their realm affects him so much! He is my favorite character and I would be sad if we didn't get any of this...I mean...especially the second visit is very intense and making the janky architecture for the show would be amazing and mind-bending! If they do it well it could be AMAZING as well as really important to the plot.
Who wants to be on BlueSky? lol
There are a lot of different interesting people, including those who like the Wheel of Time books 📚 and TV series
People who want nothing to do with Xitter
As far as the WoT community goes, BlueSky is currently way more active and enjoyable than Twitter.
People who want to talk about the Wheel of Time while having a good time on social media.
People who are not addicted to outrage.
People who don't want their social media app run by an inept, wingnut Bond villain in the midst of a midlife crisis who has abused his position to turn a once useful tool into a rancid, festering dung heap of malefactors, liars, and the bot accounts they freely run.
Well said
I hope that the actor who plays Matt will be changed with the one from season 1 or another, because this one is very untalented, doesn't have the proper look. Such a pity for the character to be played by the actor from season 2. The one who appeared in season 1 was way more talented
I disagree