The combo trials in Uni are genuinely great. They first briefly explain what your character should be doing on offense and in neutral and then gradually lay out their combo theory as they explain multiple routes for any situation and clearly label them. I wish every fighting game had combo trials like that.
true, but UNI still dosen't separate starter bnb's enough from the rest of info. All you need is literally a big inscription “this and this, now you can play”, a separator, the absence of this separator makes you get lost in the flow of information anyway. IIRC UNI got this, but in a big text block
3:49 Slayer player here. It kinda is honestly, it's his only real defensive option with much reliability, so I'd say it fits. Maybe it would be a little better to put it in Advanced 1 or something since the input is pretty tricky, but I'd say it's pretty important to learn, especially since true slayer players DO not block, we either bdc or we get smacked in the face, hoo rah
@@NotLeonMassey Would you consider hosting beginner tournaments then? I know HAB's a thing but someone with your relative clout i think could get a lot of beginners to try their first tournament
I wish fighting game trials just straight up told you about potential use cases for the combos themselves. It's important for beginners and veterans alike to know how to reliably get knockdown and what their okizeme options are, among other things.
The combo trails in SF4 legitimately made me think I wasn't cut out for the game. You think Ryu's going to be easy then they land your no-cordination just-through-the-door smooth brane with links (Not even 1 or 3 frame ones), and you just had to keep trying and trying. BB and GG did way more to get me into the genre because more than half the basic trials are mostly cancels instead of links. GG's trails may be lacking the good stuff but I appreciate them for at least existing. Strive's are basically not there. Tried to pick up Slayer and gave up since it was downloading random community combos like wtf
I also remember a similar experience, though I remember doing the trials in sign confused out of my mind until I got to bedmans where the trials are like DECENT decent. That said that might have also been a million other skill issues so who's to say where the fault really lies
@@NotLeonMassey I was definately too young to recognise trials for what they were; challenges, rather than instructions. Certain games embodied it way more than others (KOF13 is the dead horse at this point) but Arc at least managed to weave some lessons into some of the characters for me. Leo for example, you come out with a gameplan -- get behind them, high or low -- a strong anti-air and how to do a super. Slayer I came out the other end dazed and confused
1:48 In DBFZ, they technically have 10 combo trials per character, but around 7 of them are literally just showing system mechanics. They're all really short and it feels less like you're learning ten hard combos per character and more like 10 short combos that force you to learn one new property each. The game's not showing you a recipe, the game is showing you some of the ingredients, because the combo system is pretty free-flowing and the challenge comes from optimization. I think that's smart, because a beginner player might not touch any of the other tutorials, and the info they do give is just enough to provoke thought in a casual player's mind while not making them feel overwhelmed or inadequate. Plus, it also pushes new players to look towards what combos other players have come up with, and those are always going to be better and longer. The difference in quality between combos from the combo trials and the combos most opponents will try and use on you is stark enough to give even the dumbest of players the thought of looking up combos on youtube or Dustloop.
If I had to say whether they're good or bad at what they want to be, I think a lot of them are somewhat redundant but they're definitely good at being that jumping-in point. They have much clearer direction and purpose than the vibe I'm getting from the Xrd trials. I give them a 7 out of 10, for how many Dragon Balls there are. (On a scale where 5 is just average). They do their job.
Yeah, this is pretty much why I instantly gravitated to Ky and Raven back when I was getting into GG from BB/DBFZ. Their combo trials make sense, they mostly go into an advantageous situation I can wrap my head around, and both use projectile YRC in the most obvious ways.
The thing I like about combo trials in games is they don't necessarily teach you the *exact* combos you need, but they teach you what *works*. The first time you go in, you don't necessarily know what combos into what, what counter hit conversions you can get, or if your character may or may not have a gimmick like a move that isn't exactly special cancellable but cancels into one other move. You can take that info to training and then make stuff up that suits your skill level.
The BDC combo trial, is just teaching you that you can BDC into any special, which is a very useful tool as you can do mappa or bite or super. If you learn BDC you make mu's so much easier. difference between Cancelers and non-BDC slayer Is heaven and earth Dandy™
I'll have to give Xrd a try. I was JUST trying out Strive again after bouncing off it hard at launch and I can't believe how awful their half-baked combo trials system is. It's great to have dustloop as an option but something in game displaying inputs as ⬇↘➡ instead of 236 is always easier for me to follow. Also happy 3-ish weeks of entirely bot-free TF2! It's a miracle!
Under night combo trials have a similar sense in lack of direction, specifically in its early trials. While the later “veteran” trials are pulled from the community and often have setup built into the last part of the combo, a beginner isn’t going to learn the execution heavy stuff. Some of the basic trials also haven’t been updated since the 2016(?) [st] release of the game, making them better or worse than what they originally were.
Combo trials are a real mixed bag and hardly ever give starting players the tools to just learn how to consistently get decent damage off of a hit confirm - which is really one of the key motivating factors that gets them to stick with the game. That said, while the combos themselves might be bad, the execution skills that one gains from beating them can still be useful. For example, in Skullgirls: the combo trials are also far from optimal and generally harder than they need to be, but in a game where adjusting one's combos on the fly to adapt to the opponent's undizzy bar and potential metered reversals, or continuing a combo after tagging out your point character are all vital high-level skills, learning the intuitive ways that different moves CAN combo into each other is very useful when one starts building their own combos - either in the training room or even mid-match (once they've internalised those execution basics). I do think that devs should normalise adding curated community BnBs to the game with patches tho. Custom combo trials can potentially help newbies without them having to bring up a wiki, but they also have the problem of being hard to parse as 'actually useful' or just 'showy and hard'.
Leon is like the merchant from Resident Evil, but instead his wares are copies of Xrd. While SF6 is different, the character guides and combo trials are so good. Im slow when it comes to picking up stuff but sf6 provides such useful guides.
This is one of the greatest mysteries of fighting games for me. You can increase the player's strength several times simply by explaining that all the player needs to do at the beginning is to focus on 2-3 combos in neutral and a few situational ones a little later; pokes; AA; jump-ins. That's all. 20 minutes to explain to anyone all of this. The number of fighting games that do this is ZERO. But - mountains of junk, very difficult for beginners and even for players with experience confirms, some completely stoned specifics that will never exist in gameplan - anything but what is rly necessary. Yes, kilometers of detailed text like UNI or MBTL will be very useful later, but it will be later. Why the developers literally hide the most important and simplest BNB is beyond my understanding
It's one of those things that I feel would require someone on staff to come over and manually redo once every couple of months, maybe once a season. A lot of these modes are impossible to get completely right at launch but could be cleaned up later as character fundamentals become clear over time - but obviously that would require putting extra resources in at a company level. While I'd like to see someone get paid for that in an official format the good thing about the current state of things is that it drives "content creators" to create their own resources, and due to ad revenue they can (hopefully) see some reward out of it.
@@NotLeonMassey oh yeah, it is prob. a giant factor - there is still in SFV Menat trials where Guardian Of The Sun special works like dp+punch, not dp+kick and it's easy to see that the special was prob. changed in the middle of development and no one will simply check the trials ever again Smthg to put in-game community efforts would be rly nice, but any system that I saw tried that or not good enough (dota2) or is so horribly bad that is better to not exist bc it's prob. make other development think twice to try to replicate that (GGST)
Honestly I feel like one of the biggest issues with the combo trials (and broadly speaking - a lot of fighting game tutorials) is what you mention at 1:46 - there's too much info tossed at the new player with no explanation of what is used when. "Here's a tutorial list the size of the moon, have fun!" Even if the tutorials are good, the new player doesn't know how much of it is required, how much of it is optional, and what is entirely ignorable up to a certain level of play.
This is weird to me since BB Central Fiction (great game btw) has all around pretty good combo trials from what I’ve experienced. Many of the basic routes are buttons away from optimal by trials 7-10, and give you answers to common situations. The advanced ones a great too, often optimal, stupid hard for some characters. Along with the built in glossary and the brief character explanations, I think Blazblue can be learned entirely self-contained which is sick. Buy BBCF :>
I quickly went back to Axl's combos and yeah they are really weird? why are we teaching a counter hit heaven can wait combo before some of the main starters? why is there a 6p starter but not a 6k starter when that's a more important button for Axl? Ironically I think some of the advanced combos are actually pretty useful
I really think that with xrd and blazeblu arcsys whent with harder jank "cool" combos over actual bnbs, the comparison for starter combos on dustoop and easy combo trials are night and day
Excited, Really hoping that he's kind of like a side graded character if that makes sense? Going form +R to Rev 2 venom there's a lot of differences but you can tell they come from the same origin point in ideas. I don't want the exact same venom but in strive, and I'm unlikely to get that, so I want to see what they can do with the character that still comes from that origin point but is new and interesting for the systems he's in.
I don't think counterhit combos need to be in most games trials. once you are comfortable enough to recognize during a game you got a counter hit and can do something different I don't think you're leaning on the games Bnbs for assistence. But in a game wide sense I guess its good to let the player know "hey moves can lead to different things depending on when you hit the other guy"
you should advertise this channel with a community post on your main channel or something, definitely still enjoy these kinds of videos a lot also stop using mkwii music
after TRYING to pick up dbfz and playing the trials i can attest, THIS SHIT SUCKS OMG seriously the average combo is like 80% off a medium starter and the trials don't include one that does 50. The ingame guides barely even explain assists and the trials i played didn't involve them. (they are the core mechanic of that game)
guilty gear has some of the most... verbose? combos. like why do they give you combos that are both difficult, character specific, and do low damage/don't lead to knockdown when there is a much simpler bnb that achieve all of this? I play sol and while xrd wasnt that bad strive was TERRIBLE with its combo trials and missions.
short circuit engineer on payload offense this man just simply cannot get enough of ball based gameplay
casual tf2 game confirm into 1000 hours of xrd rev 2 is insane
this person was not ready for the valve fixing the bot problem into playing xrd pipeline
The combo trials in Uni are genuinely great. They first briefly explain what your character should be doing on offense and in neutral and then gradually lay out their combo theory as they explain multiple routes for any situation and clearly label them. I wish every fighting game had combo trials like that.
I’ve heard that the combo trials were made with combos that they saw players in the arcade do often, which is probably part of why they’re so good
true, but UNI still dosen't separate starter bnb's enough from the rest of info. All you need is literally a big inscription “this and this, now you can play”, a separator, the absence of this separator makes you get lost in the flow of information anyway. IIRC UNI got this, but in a big text block
@@catnekokotSTARTER>BODY>ENDER ass combos
3:49 Slayer player here.
It kinda is honestly, it's his only real defensive option with much reliability, so I'd say it fits. Maybe it would be a little better to put it in Advanced 1 or something since the input is pretty tricky, but I'd say it's pretty important to learn, especially since true slayer players DO not block, we either bdc or we get smacked in the face, hoo rah
Instructions unclear: I have been trapped on pl_upward for 6 hours.
2:59 extraordinarily stretched 3S jumpscare
Bro had a Mr.Beast moment but didn't make a video " BUYING GUILTY GEAR XRD REV 2 FOR A TF2 CASUAL " . Also great video
that's how you know I'm doing it for the love of the game camera on or off I still be on my Play Xrd ish
@@NotLeonMassey Would you consider hosting beginner tournaments then? I know HAB's a thing but someone with your relative clout i think could get a lot of beginners to try their first tournament
0:18 Censoring Jack-O LOL
I didn't even notice lol
I wish fighting game trials just straight up told you about potential use cases for the combos themselves. It's important for beginners and veterans alike to know how to reliably get knockdown and what their okizeme options are, among other things.
Uni does this iirc
@@dhamster Idk if the first game did, but in my experience, the second only does it sometimes.
@@SpringdayAutumnmoon ah, I haven't played uni 2. Uni 1 has descriptive tags for its trial combos
SFV is one of the few games I've played that explains that at all. weird ass game considering it's not under the combo tab.
Wtf I have cleared many trials completely to get those coins, never saw an ezplanatoon of the combos outside of a demo just existing
The combo trails in SF4 legitimately made me think I wasn't cut out for the game. You think Ryu's going to be easy then they land your no-cordination just-through-the-door smooth brane with links (Not even 1 or 3 frame ones), and you just had to keep trying and trying. BB and GG did way more to get me into the genre because more than half the basic trials are mostly cancels instead of links. GG's trails may be lacking the good stuff but I appreciate them for at least existing. Strive's are basically not there. Tried to pick up Slayer and gave up since it was downloading random community combos like wtf
I also remember a similar experience, though I remember doing the trials in sign confused out of my mind until I got to bedmans where the trials are like DECENT decent. That said that might have also been a million other skill issues so who's to say where the fault really lies
@@NotLeonMassey I was definately too young to recognise trials for what they were; challenges, rather than instructions. Certain games embodied it way more than others (KOF13 is the dead horse at this point) but Arc at least managed to weave some lessons into some of the characters for me. Leo for example, you come out with a gameplan -- get behind them, high or low -- a strong anti-air and how to do a super. Slayer I came out the other end dazed and confused
Shoutouts to Melty Blood for having j.BC j.BC air throw as a near universal serviceable combo structure. Saved my ass many a time.
1:48 In DBFZ, they technically have 10 combo trials per character, but around 7 of them are literally just showing system mechanics. They're all really short and it feels less like you're learning ten hard combos per character and more like 10 short combos that force you to learn one new property each. The game's not showing you a recipe, the game is showing you some of the ingredients, because the combo system is pretty free-flowing and the challenge comes from optimization.
I think that's smart, because a beginner player might not touch any of the other tutorials, and the info they do give is just enough to provoke thought in a casual player's mind while not making them feel overwhelmed or inadequate.
Plus, it also pushes new players to look towards what combos other players have come up with, and those are always going to be better and longer. The difference in quality between combos from the combo trials and the combos most opponents will try and use on you is stark enough to give even the dumbest of players the thought of looking up combos on youtube or Dustloop.
If I had to say whether they're good or bad at what they want to be, I think a lot of them are somewhat redundant but they're definitely good at being that jumping-in point. They have much clearer direction and purpose than the vibe I'm getting from the Xrd trials. I give them a 7 out of 10, for how many Dragon Balls there are. (On a scale where 5 is just average).
They do their job.
In the training mode, straight up comboin it, and by it, my trial
Yeah, this is pretty much why I instantly gravitated to Ky and Raven back when I was getting into GG from BB/DBFZ. Their combo trials make sense, they mostly go into an advantageous situation I can wrap my head around, and both use projectile YRC in the most obvious ways.
The thing I like about combo trials in games is they don't necessarily teach you the *exact* combos you need, but they teach you what *works*. The first time you go in, you don't necessarily know what combos into what, what counter hit conversions you can get, or if your character may or may not have a gimmick like a move that isn't exactly special cancellable but cancels into one other move. You can take that info to training and then make stuff up that suits your skill level.
Having constant content on this channel fills my soul. Thanks Leon.
The BDC combo trial, is just teaching you that you can BDC into any special, which is a very useful tool as you can do mappa or bite or super. If you learn BDC you make mu's so much easier.
difference between
Cancelers and non-BDC slayer
Is heaven and earth
Dandy™
Under night spoiled me with their mission mode. So sad xrd's lies in the dustloop
wiki
I'll have to give Xrd a try. I was JUST trying out Strive again after bouncing off it hard at launch and I can't believe how awful their half-baked combo trials system is. It's great to have dustloop as an option but something in game displaying inputs as ⬇↘➡ instead of 236 is always easier for me to follow.
Also happy 3-ish weeks of entirely bot-free TF2! It's a miracle!
been really really enjoying these return to form leon massey videos its so comfy
with each day that passes leon massive gets more and more possessed by the spirit of slime
6:03 was not expecting the slime reference, nice surprise
Under night combo trials have a similar sense in lack of direction, specifically in its early trials. While the later “veteran” trials are pulled from the community and often have setup built into the last part of the combo, a beginner isn’t going to learn the execution heavy stuff. Some of the basic trials also haven’t been updated since the 2016(?) [st] release of the game, making them better or worse than what they originally were.
im the type of person who skips the routes and goes straight to the strategy page before coming back to learn routes
i like oki a lot
can relate, i buy Super Lesbian Animal RPG for strangers all the time.
comments you can smell
@@TheEvilCheesecake smells like peaches and lavender
mm no, there's not enough cheap perfume to cover up the rot smell.
@@TheEvilCheesecake kay eye double hockey sticks yourself
*pressing my fingers together* am i strangers...
someone saw evo strive and got surprised by the patch notes.
Combo trials are a real mixed bag and hardly ever give starting players the tools to just learn how to consistently get decent damage off of a hit confirm - which is really one of the key motivating factors that gets them to stick with the game. That said, while the combos themselves might be bad, the execution skills that one gains from beating them can still be useful.
For example, in Skullgirls: the combo trials are also far from optimal and generally harder than they need to be, but in a game where adjusting one's combos on the fly to adapt to the opponent's undizzy bar and potential metered reversals, or continuing a combo after tagging out your point character are all vital high-level skills, learning the intuitive ways that different moves CAN combo into each other is very useful when one starts building their own combos - either in the training room or even mid-match (once they've internalised those execution basics).
I do think that devs should normalise adding curated community BnBs to the game with patches tho. Custom combo trials can potentially help newbies without them having to bring up a wiki, but they also have the problem of being hard to parse as 'actually useful' or just 'showy and hard'.
The Combo trials are so good I broke my fight stick doing I-NO's advance combos. Granted it was an older model.
Leon is like the merchant from Resident Evil, but instead his wares are copies of Xrd. While SF6 is different, the character guides and combo trials are so good. Im slow when it comes to picking up stuff but sf6 provides such useful guides.
This is one of the greatest mysteries of fighting games for me. You can increase the player's strength several times simply by explaining that all the player needs to do at the beginning is to focus on 2-3 combos in neutral and a few situational ones a little later; pokes; AA; jump-ins. That's all. 20 minutes to explain to anyone all of this. The number of fighting games that do this is ZERO. But - mountains of junk, very difficult for beginners and even for players with experience confirms, some completely stoned specifics that will never exist in gameplan - anything but what is rly necessary. Yes, kilometers of detailed text like UNI or MBTL will be very useful later, but it will be later. Why the developers literally hide the most important and simplest BNB is beyond my understanding
It's one of those things that I feel would require someone on staff to come over and manually redo once every couple of months, maybe once a season. A lot of these modes are impossible to get completely right at launch but could be cleaned up later as character fundamentals become clear over time - but obviously that would require putting extra resources in at a company level. While I'd like to see someone get paid for that in an official format the good thing about the current state of things is that it drives "content creators" to create their own resources, and due to ad revenue they can (hopefully) see some reward out of it.
@@NotLeonMassey oh yeah, it is prob. a giant factor - there is still in SFV Menat trials where Guardian Of The Sun special works like dp+punch, not dp+kick and it's easy to see that the special was prob. changed in the middle of development and no one will simply check the trials ever again
Smthg to put in-game community efforts would be rly nice, but any system that I saw tried that or not good enough (dota2) or is so horribly bad that is better to not exist bc it's prob. make other development think twice to try to replicate that (GGST)
Xrd content 2024 i love you
Honestly I feel like one of the biggest issues with the combo trials (and broadly speaking - a lot of fighting game tutorials) is what you mention at 1:46 - there's too much info tossed at the new player with no explanation of what is used when. "Here's a tutorial list the size of the moon, have fun!" Even if the tutorials are good, the new player doesn't know how much of it is required, how much of it is optional, and what is entirely ignorable up to a certain level of play.
watching these videos is so strange now
This is weird to me since BB Central Fiction (great game btw) has all around pretty good combo trials from what I’ve experienced. Many of the basic routes are buttons away from optimal by trials 7-10, and give you answers to common situations. The advanced ones a great too, often optimal, stupid hard for some characters. Along with the built in glossary and the brief character explanations, I think Blazblue can be learned entirely self-contained which is sick. Buy BBCF :>
everyone wake up new masseyn't just dropped
I quickly went back to Axl's combos and yeah they are really weird? why are we teaching a counter hit heaven can wait combo before some of the main starters? why is there a 6p starter but not a 6k starter when that's a more important button for Axl? Ironically I think some of the advanced combos are actually pretty useful
It is I, the Fighting Gameist.
hey what did you have to sacrifice to get orcane venom and heihachi in one weekend and how can i use that power to get silksong
Whats the song that plays throughout the video? ive been looking for it for a month now.
I really think that with xrd and blazeblu arcsys whent with harder jank "cool" combos over actual bnbs, the comparison for starter combos on dustoop and easy combo trials are night and day
I made a video "you only need 2 combos" so I'd have somewhere to send friends ❤
3:13 holy shit my name is in the video lmao we take those
But what about Demoknight's combo trials?
anyone know the music in the latter half of the video?
Dat Mission Mode doe 👀
Opinion on venom in strive?
Excited, Really hoping that he's kind of like a side graded character if that makes sense? Going form +R to Rev 2 venom there's a lot of differences but you can tell they come from the same origin point in ideas. I don't want the exact same venom but in strive, and I'm unlikely to get that, so I want to see what they can do with the character that still comes from that origin point but is new and interesting for the systems he's in.
@@NotLeonMasseyalso how do you feel about stive in comparison to release?
KLO MENTIONED
I don't think counterhit combos need to be in most games trials. once you are comfortable enough to recognize during a game you got a counter hit and can do something different I don't think you're leaning on the games Bnbs for assistence. But in a game wide sense I guess its good to let the player know "hey moves can lead to different things depending on when you hit the other guy"
Have you checked back in with dude you bought Xrd for?
Beast mode video
Leon you’re going to make me download xrd again how could you
you should advertise this channel with a community post on your main channel or something, definitely still enjoy these kinds of videos a lot
also stop using mkwii music
after TRYING to pick up dbfz and playing the trials i can attest, THIS SHIT SUCKS OMG
seriously the average combo is like 80% off a medium starter and the trials don't include one that does 50. The ingame guides barely even explain assists and the trials i played didn't involve them. (they are the core mechanic of that game)
the real combo is randomly activating gold ik and damaging the opponent mentally
Im a fighting gameophile
Do a video on raven funny British man
...the advanced combo trials fix the problems you mentioned.
Change channel name to Xrd Missionary.
guilty gear has some of the most... verbose? combos. like why do they give you combos that are both difficult, character specific, and do low damage/don't lead to knockdown when there is a much simpler bnb that achieve all of this? I play sol and while xrd wasnt that bad strive was TERRIBLE with its combo trials and missions.
Xturders so desperate for people to play their game they'll buy it for other people