I love Let’s Talk About’s! I was watching this with the biggest smile on my face. This series is like more conversational video essays where you guys can riff about big topics. And I love that for moments like 29:37 where Ethan goes from not knowing if you guys can do this to having a stream of awesome ideas. Plus, the background looks rad.
Counterpoint to Superman cannot make Batman money: Ironman compared to Spider-man films....heck Ant-man money. Even after Ironman, no one expected Antman to have such a high ceiling. I think Superman has a lot more he could get as a character. Good movies that build on good characters with superheroes can write their own ticket.
I think its possible, but i think the difference between marvel and superman is that superman has the extra hurdle of general audiences thinking superman is boring unless hes gritty or darker. So a superman movie needs to prove that notion wrong
I think part of Ant Man's success was that by then the MCU had real momentum, so people went in with the expecation that the movie would at least be decent. I think DC movies have to build up some good will before Superman will do the same numbers.
@@velemamba260 I believe that if they manage to get something unique in cinematography and compeling as own character with good PR campaign, you get cash.
Ever since the Justice League/Timm era cartoons they've criminally underplayed the importance of WHO these people are over what they are. It's one sticking point that kept me off all the New 52 animated films.
I think that's sadly a dangerous game to play now. I could see so many people walking out and still agreeing with The Elite. Especially in a post Man of Steel world
I have always had so many thoughts on this subject, but I’m just gonna try to boil them down to simple bullet points: *Movie 1 (“Superman: Man of Steel”)* - Starts with Clark Kent meeting an unimpressed Lois Lane who dresses him down by summing up what she assumes is his “farm boy moves to the big city” background to his face, while the audience is shown flashes of the classic Superman origin from the destruction of Krypton to finding the Fortress of Solitude, then Clark simply smiles and says “…Something like that.” - Lex Luthor is a tech/business mogul, who doesn’t seem evil at first, and even develops a kind of friendship with Superman after her stops a disastrous Lexcorp accident. - He saves Lois during the Lexcorp accident and that starts a budding romance between Lois and Superman. - Superman and Lex learn that Brainiac (the Siri turned Skynet from Krypton) is behind the recent technological malfunctions in Metropolis and they team up to neutralize him. - The movie ends with Clark, having fallen in love with Lois, revealing to himself as Superman to her, only for her to tell him that she already figured it out, and they kiss. - Mid credit scene shows that Lex is secretly dabbling in leftover Brainiac components, including his main power source: kryptonite. - Post credit scene show signs of Batman in Gotham City. *Movie 2 (“Superman 2: The Last Son of Krypton”)* - We start with a montage of Superman doing his thing, fighting various members of his rogues gallery, and rescuing people, ranging from awesomely cool to adorably silly to heartwarming. - Superman feels stretched thin and realizes that even he can't do it all. - One day, it seems like another alien threat is crash landing to Earth, but in fact, it is a young, blonde, Kryptonian woman asleep in a pod similar to the one that brought Clark to Earth originally. - After taking the girl to the Fortress, Superman learns that she is his cousin, Kara, who he has never met because he was a baby on Krypton, and the wormhole that their parents had sent them through time displaced their arrivals by a couple decades. - After waking up and coming to terms with being biologically younger than her baby cousin, Kara adjusts to being on Earth and joins Clark in being a protector, known as Supergirl. - Meanwhile, Lex is running for president, and doing fairly well, but Lois doesn't trust him, and becomes more and more obsessed with exposing his underhanded dealings. - After a surge in super crime and catching wind the coming threat of extraterrestrial invasion (which will turn out to be the Thanagarians in future movies), Lex decides that Superman and Supergirl aren't enough, so he attempts to bio-engineer his own Kryptonian hero that is immune to kryptonite using Superman's DNA and Brainiac-enhanced technology. - During the process, Brainiac takes over and creates a kryptonite-infused, monstrous, energy vampire version of Superman (this being an actually intimidating version of Bizarro). - Bizarro's body naturally causes freezing temperatures and a thick overcast that severely blocks sunlight in Metropolis, and he has a predatory drive to drain Superman and Supergirl of their yellow-sun energy. - Superman and Supergirl fight a brutal, desperate battle against Bizarro, but after realizing that he his harmed by yellow sunlight, they barely manage to force him up into space where the sun's radiation strengthens them enough to obliterate the relentless, but weakened monster. - The movie ends with Lois and Clark putting together where Bizarro came from, and how Lex was the cause of it, only to find out that he was elected president. - The mid credit scene sets up the Justice League, and the post credit scene sets up the Legion of Doom. *Movie 3 ("Superman 3: Man of Tomorrow")* - This movie would take place after a big "Justice League vs. Legion of Doom" movie. - Superman, Batman, and Lois are trying to figure out how to expose Lex and get him impeached. - President Luthor paints himself as the "Man of Tomorrow", and brings legitimate improvements to the country. - At some point, Superman and Lex have a debate. - Lex's vice president, Maxwell Lord, telepathically forces Supergirl to trap herself and her cousin in the Phantom Zone, but this only results in the release of General Zod and his elite warriors. - Zod and his warriors overpower Superman and Supergirl because they not only are aware of how yellow sun radiation effects Kryptonians, but are actually very well trained in it, and can actually manipulate the solar energy withing their bodies to a focused, high level degree. - They leave Superman and Supergirl for dead, and proceed to begin the takeover of Earth. - President Luthor shows his true colors as he kills his vice president in private, and proceeds to make increasingly rash, desperate, and dangerous decisions to attempt to fight against the Kryptonian despot and his forces. - Meanwhile, the Justice League is helping Clark and Kara heal in the Fortress while also trying to protect the world from the war between Zod and Lex. - Eventually, once Clark and Kara are healed enough to fight, Batman (who at this point, has fought alongside the League, but declined to officially join them yet) arrives and they all devise their best battle plan. - Using everything at their disposal, their wits, and their will, and even some villains, the Justice League manage to defeat Zod and his forces, but not without devastating cost to the world. - Lex's actions during the war get him impeached, and his past crimes get him arrested. - Superman and the Justice League help the world rebuild.
I love the idea of Superman taking the lessons he's learned about friendship and community being a Kryptonian, and embracing his humanity and becoming the Superman we all know and love from that
Thank you for having this discussion. We have been trying to think of fun new Superman movies, or ideas that could make a fun Superman movie without doing the gritty/dark tormented Superman. Superman can mean so much aside from jesus allegories. Symbol for immigrants trying to find a place in a new land. Having infinite patience with people who sometimes refuse to try to be better, but you can't get angry or else you could hurt someone. Trying to show people there are better ways of handling problems. Even with the villains we could explore more with Brainiac and a history with Krypton. Metallo being injured from a Superman rescue and now he has a grudge against him, with Lex secretly funding the revenge scheme. All open for more Superman ideas and discussions
Superman is hardly an immigrant though. Sure, he came from Krypton, but it's not like he grew up on Krypton and was educated on that planet and raised in that culture and believed in their values or something. He arrived on earth as a baby. He was basically a "clean slate". Other then his kryptonian biology he is as american as he can get. Isn't that the point that so many superman stories try to make? And other characters also make? Like when Batman says Superman is the most human guy he knows?
@@normansmith9009 If you're only looking at the post-Crisis John Byrne version, then yeah sure everything about him is human aside from his superpowers. But if you're looking at all of Superman's history, he's always had an alien/loner side to him that mourns the loss of Krypton.
@@ChadBenjamin I dunno the morning the loss of Krypton isn’t really a good angle in my opinion. Zach Snyder tried it to a degree and it didn’t really work. Plus just from a fundamental point of view it doesn’t really make much sense. Clark has always been the classic all American guy. Why would he morn a place he has little to no relationship with? Also I personally think Superman as a Jesus allegory can work very well, it’s just many people suck at making Christ figures interesting. The idea of a fundamentally good person (ie. Jesus or Superman) coming to a fundamentally bad place (earth) is exceedingly interesting. In its own right, you just need to focus on how people respond so someone actually being caring, compassionate and good for the sake of good as opposed to making them preachy.
@@thedukeofchutney468 The Fortress of Solitude, the Bottle City of Kandor, Kelex, the symbol he wears on his chest, Supergirl, Krypto. Superman always had a connection to Krypton even if he never experienced it himself. One of the best Superman stories of all time (For the Man Who Has Everything) is about him dreaming of an ideal life on Krypton. He was created as a Moses allegory by Jewish Canadian immigrants, he wasn't originally meant to be an all-American or a Christ figure.
@@ChadBenjamin Personally I’d actually argue that “The man who has everything” is one of the most overrated stories of all time. The symbol on his chest doesn’t really count for much as it’s just what the suit came with in most versions of the character. The same goes for the Fortress. He owns it and all but most of his interactions with its Kryptonian culture has little to do with it and it’s more akin to visiting a museum or watching a documentary. If my grandmother is from Puerto Rico that doesn’t mean that I have anything to do with the place just because I watched a documentary on TV or visited a museum. Supergirl and Krypto also don’t really count. Supergirl is special to Superman because she is his cousin and functionally acts like a younger sister. Just because my cousin is tied to a place culturally doesn’t mean that I am. Also krypton is a dog, so using him as a symbol of how close Clark is to Krypton doesn’t make much sense. In any real sense Clark is culturally an earthling and an American to be specific. Finally, Superman wasn’t really created to be an allegory of anyone. While parallels have been drawn between him and Moses Superman was never intended to be allegorical. Furthermore wether they were trying to or not the Jesus comparisons fit better then the Moses ones in the modern context of the character. This actually makes a lot of sense as Christianity is simply an offshoot of Judaism. Moses was a messianic figure and Jesus was seen by the early Christian’s (who were all Jews by the way) as the ultimate messianic figure. Superman was conceived as the ultimate hero. I find it highly interesting how these parallels came about. Two Jewish boys dreaming up a character that resembles the most famous Jew in history and him having a somewhat similar backstory makes a strange amount sense when you think about it.
I feel like the first new Superman movie should be an adaption of “What’s so Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way?” Manchester Black can represent a lot of the modern cynicism towards Superman and the world in general. He’d work great as a commentary on Homelander, Omni-man or even some of the MCU heroes that feel comfortable with killing. It would also allow Clark to be already imbedded in the Daily Planet and give him his supporting cast. And the finale being a twist on the ‘evil Superman’ trope that everyone seems to love would be perfect because it would solidly place optimism & Hope over Manchester Black’s “oh woah is me, the world is so dark and evil so I guess I’ll kill” philosophy.
When DC reboots Superman what do you want his suit to look like? Personally I think they should mix the Max Fleischer outfit used in Superman and Lois with the Christopher Reeves suit from Superman the movie 1978
@@The_Blue_Otaku I think that costume mix sounds great. I personally don’t think trunks look silly as long as they are made to look like trunks rather an underpants. As long as they stick with the kryptonian S like in Christopher Reeves’s rather than the simple S of the Fleischer suit. I love the simple S in the show and cartoons but I feel in a big blockbuster you need that connection to Krypton
@@lcmck2418 Dude i agree with everything you just put here.. The weird thing is all my friends say the trunks look goofy then i jokingly told them that there taste of anime is steaming doo doo feces
I can see where you're coming from, but I'd also gladly take a theatrical release of Superman Vs. The Elite (along with some other animated DC films like Mask of The Phantasm, New Frontier or the World's Finest edit for Superman The Animated Series)
If you want to make a good Superman movie, the main thing you need to do is make it HOPEFUL. If Supes isn’t inspiring people and bringing joy, then the movie has failed on its most fundamental storytelling level and the audience will pick up on that. You’ll believe a man can fly.
Yeah. I mean, I didn’t have a problem with the world around Superman and how they reacted to him in MOS, I just had a problem with how he reacted to the people, and the character choices they made for him.
We'll never get the Snyder guys' approval. Someone could pick up exactly where he left off and they'd hate it. They don't want Superman movies, they want HIM to make Superman movies. Personally I hated all those movies and am desperate to move on to something better.
You need a Superman who's written in a way that when you see him appear on screen the audience smiles. You still need conflict in the movie and I'm not saying don't let Superman not struggle, but you need that hopeful feeling of "Supermans here, we're saved!" Not everything needs to be subverted.
I’d say take The Batman and do the polar opposite, it’s colorful and hopeful but underneath it is a story of real issues that Clark Kent can investigate and use Superman as a persona to show those issues into the light. Bring Superman to his roots of a social Justice warrior who fought wife beaters, and greedy officials, you need him to seem like a guy he’s not crying over his dead planet or a god among men he’s a guy from Kansas with a sincerity that people mistake for naivety.
I just have the image in my head of Superman going to GCPD to turn on the bat signal. Gordon goes up there to see what’s going on, sees Superman and goes right back inside
Honestly just make Superman vs the Elite as a live action movie. It explores the Superman character and it has a big fight at the end for the people that want that. Superman vs the Elite is one of the few perfect Superman stories that works in every medium at any time. It would also serve as a good commentary on the new version of superman vs man of steel.
Great video Sal , I feel Superman on film hasn’t gotten right since Superman The Movie and Superman 2 when we had the best on screen film Superman Christopher Reeve. DC hasn’t gotten Superman right on film in years at least how Superman / Clark Kent should look and sound. Superman on TV is doing so well with Superman & Lois and even Smallville with the origin of Clark Kent. Superman on film needs a huge overhaul.
I’ve found too many people’s favorite image of Superman is him with a dark background and glowing eyes instead of him sitting on a cloud want watching over the city.
Really great episode Sal. Would love to see more of these kinds of discussions between the three of you. I’ve really grown to love Superman over the years, and I think now is THE TIME when modern audiences are most likely to resonate with a hopeful, idyllic, truly GOOD hero.
I love it when you guys get creative and brainstorm stuff together like this. Those are my favorite episodes of Elseworlds Exchange. All of Ben's ideas were great
Ethan's comment about The Fortress of Solitude being and everything representing Superman's Kryptonian origins being frozen in ice vs. the vibrancy of his American upbringing and the life he's made for himself on this planet... dude hit deep with that one. Only thing missing here are shots of Tiff's reactions when the guys say something ridiculous.
With care taken to balance what I'll say with fun action scenes, a Superman movie should give him a strong emotional core, and the supporting cast needed to bounce off of in order to showcase that kind of characterization. Establish Superman as a friendly guy who just wants to help and what his values are. (Contrasted with MoS/BvS where I still don't *really* know certain key aspects about him; does he care about bystanders... while _literally_ pushing a fight scene from the isolated Kent farm into downtown Smallville? Does he have a no-kill rule? Those movies give really weird mixed messages and ask the audience to think of him as having Superman values without putting in much legwork to lay the needed foundations. Or Superman Returns, where one of his values seems to be violating a family's privacy by spying and eavesdropping on them in a spectacularly unintentionally creepy scene that says even more to me about that version of Superman's values than the amnesia kiss did.) And establish a love for journalism in Clark Kent. While Superman fights for truth and justice in a very direct hands-on way, Clark does it in a more investigative way. Bring back his passion for writing and the idea of bringing truth to light. Hell, you can bring back the idea that he writes successful novels on the side. I've never cared for Clark's personality being fake--sure, he might embellish parts of himself (spill a coffee at a strategic moment, etc), but Clark Kent should be just as valid as Superman. They're just different parts of the same guy. Possibly the best decision of the Post-Crisis era of Superman comics was Ma and Pa Kent being alive. Clark isn't motivated by tragedy, and learning that he can't save everyone isn't a lesson that _needs_ to be taught via the death of a loved one, so letting his parents live and giving him a quiet homestead to visit and bounce fun dialogue off of was a fantastic change in the comics, and I'd LOVE to see it in the movies. Beyond that, we need the Daily Planet supporting cast. Perry White should not be J. Jonah Jameson. He should be more like a gruff but fatherly character. A great example of Perry done well is the version from the Lois & Clark show. His fixation on Elvis aside, that was a pitch perfect Perry. And then you have Jimmy Olsen, Ron Troupe, Cat Grant, etc. Populate Superman's world and flesh these people out. And when Supes needs advise with science techno-babble, don't keep falling back on holographic ghost parents at the Fortress of Solitude. Instead, take the opportunity to develop real _alive_ characters like Emil Hamilton and/or John Henry Irons! There are so many avenues to explore that the various movies have never shown an interest in developing that can make a new adaptation stand out.
Here's my pitch on my Superman movie: Superman : Man Of Tomorrow Clark Kent, a 25 year old man came from Kansas to have a job in Metropolis and becoming a hero to make world a better place . However, there is a challenge for him. The first is Lex Luthor who is genius and egoistic self made billionaire who thinks himself as the hero of Metropolis. The second one is Metallo who wants to destroy the people's lives. And the third is the world who is surrounded in cynicism, crime, corruption and darkness and does not have a place for good people and not believe their intentions. When Clark knew about this, he still decided to help people and inspire them to be better. But the question is "Is there any hope and love to inspire each other and make world a better place?"
This video shows why I hated BvS so much. After Man of Steel, the universe was ripe for having a Lex that wanted to continue to put Superman into a bad light to the public while Superman tries to prove himself to the people following the kryptonian invasion. It wouldve been a true meta movie addressing the divisiveness of Man of Steel as well, but instead they had Lex go hella personal right away when he couldve really been a long game villain
I like the idea of Superman story where Superman has been active for a little while but Clark is still new to Metropolis, I think it would be really cool and relatable to see Clark struggling with living in this big new city while trying to juggle being Superman, sort of like Superman Birthright
I really like the idea of Clark revealing to Lois and her being like “of course I know you big dummy!” And like Sal said, because she loves him and she’s great at her job
I don’t like when people that make movies focus too much on what they think the audience has already seen. I’m totally fine with seeing the origin every time a new version of the character is made. I want the dying planets , parents , and uncles 😂
Just follow the template of the John Byrne Man Of Steel comic. Love Jonathan showing Clark he’s showing off and doesn’t realise it playing Football. When Clark is sitting depressed after saving Lois in the Spaceplane and Ma Kent makes his suit. Corporate Bryan Cranston Lex has never been done and you can throw in the first The Batman meet up. It’s all in there
You forgot the most CRITICAL scene required in any superman reboot! Two giant double doors swing open to reveal a giant spider that Superman must battle!
Honestly the perfect Superman pitch is earth one Superman all three volumes. The difference with Batman movies is each one (save for Batman & Robin) tried fixing something off the other film that came before it. With Supes, it was two perfect hits then they start messing up lol. Chris Reeve Superman 78 was perfect as a Superman movie, THEN they did it again with Superman II. Like perfect films with those two We need more these conversations guys. I need a Daredevil Arkham series pitchb
I think that a film that uses the first arc of Morrison's N52 Action Comics as basis, with a young Superman, Brainiac and Lex as villains and Superman rooted as champion of the people would really connect with people.
I love this superman pitch movie it sounds really awesome and badass especially with introducing kandor and having the main villian be brainiac sounds really awesome and tons of fun.
Love this. Especially Lex for President in the background. Perfect for a World's Finest sequel. Definitely could set up a message of Superman helping Batman find the value to the 'Bruce Wayne' aspect of his character that he has shunned since his parent's death. It's certainly something that hasn't been genuinely explored in any Batman film so far
I love Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, enjoy Superman Returns a lot and just recently watched Superman (1978) for the first time and really liked it so I just hope we get another Superman movie. Also Superman & Lois is awesome.
This idea may have been spouted out already but I believe to make a decent Superman movie at least is to stay away from Lex Luthor even though he is an integral part to Superman's history. Introducing a new villain could freshen up the franchise (and no,not General Zod), no origin story, either
Superman vs the Elite would have been a great film to start from, but bvs hurt any future film. Having superman on tv for a while is fine and right now is probably for the best.
i loved this conversation i feel like the points you guys touched on had me thinking about a movie where superman bridges the two worlds of krypton and earth in his heart through braninac and kandor and the love of lois and humanity as a whole
For me Superman represents the collective goodness of people. Like this is what happens when a child is raised in farmlands by a good community away from corporation. The child lives up to his best potential and helps make the world better by inspiring them. They should play into that more. Have Superman feel like community hero and the movie can almost be overtly American. Like Rockwell painting the movie. Having a foreign invader like Brainiac would be great villain for that. Or Zod.
I’d like to see them do a mash up of super man secret origins and For all seasons with the clark kent elements personality of all star then last son of krypton as a sequel or as a stand alone version of what ever happened to to the man of tomorrow but i want the superman films to be a bright hopeful contrast to the batman not hating batman but the characters have different tones
Okay so what if there's a character that helps superman, a mid 20's/early 30's tech guy. He ends not trusting Superman, but keeps up the facade of friendliness. The movie ends with them talking, superman says "thanks for your help Alex" "Oh nono Superman we're passed formalities, my friends call me Lex" Superman leaves and Lex starts working on project METALLO, using a chunk of kryptonite that Braniac had to fight Superman. Can even have it too that the reason he starts to hate him is because Superman was preoccupied doing something not really important, and Alex is doing work trying to figure out something. He's doing an experiment that blows up the lab, and singing his beautiful red hair. Which is why he starts to hate Superman, "he should've been here to save me, instead he was trapsing about with Lois Lane. We can't trust someone with that kind of power"
The Lois subplot could have their relationship at the point where they should be engaged, but Clark hasn't proposed because he feels alone and when he realizes he's of Earth and not Krypton, then they get engaged, but none of this is ever spelled out, you just get a nice scene where he hands her the ring, says he doesn't want to be alone anymore, and everything thereafter is a given.
I really think there is a good screenplay and movie to be made from Tom King’s ‘Up In The Sky.’ It captures perfectly how important Superman still is and if they got that right, it could be a brilliant solo movie.
If Warner Brothers is smart, the tone they'll go for a DC cinematic universe is the equivalent of Alex Ross' art. That is to day, get these characters into obviously silly spandex outfits, but make it look epic. However, they do need to take one thing from Marvel: not taking themselves _too_ seriously without going into straight-up camp. Joel Shumacher's Batman is a good lesson for why the camp of the 66 TV show won't work a second time (I'd argue it didn't work the first time, but I know I'll get shouted down if I try to make that into an argument)
One of the most important aspects into making a great Superman movie . Keep both Kent's alive so that Clark and Superman can have so real conversations about his place in the world at the hero.Also we get to see their point of view of their son as a person, hero and overall good human being. Superman is a result of their upbringing Clark into being a good person. Also telling a good story first then put Superman into it second. Any good writer will study first to really understand who Superman is as Clark Kent. Because Superman is just Clark Kent being himself out in the public. Show Clark having regular people interest. One of my biggest arguments and problem that i had with Zack Snyder vision. He focus on showing Superman as this god-like figure instead of showing him as a regular person. The public sees Superman as a god like person. But we as veiwers should be seeing him as a regular guy. Because we are watching the behind the scenes of his life that the public cannot see. Superman for all seasons is one of the best Superman stories about him. The best way that I can describe Superman is that he is a bright and hopeful individual that have darker moments around him and how he handled those dark moments and situations is whats important. The mcu captain America was bright and hopeful yet he had to deal with alot of dark moments around himself. Seeing how he dealt with it without losing his core principles and values was very interesting to see. That's how you write Superman. Jonathan and Martha Kent instilled within him core values. Seeing him deal with darker and more no respect for Life villains . Yet he still can keep those core values that Jonathan and Martha Kent instilled within him.
What if they try and do something from like more recent things and just make a movie about Superman as a dad and training Jon or something. Would that be too much for a first movie. I mean we kinda have that in Superman and Lois but it could work for a movie too.
WB need to get a great actor like Christopher Reeves Brandon Routh and Tyler Hoechlin. There should have Superman theme song in the movie. Not having Superman theme song is like not having Harry Potter, Star Trek, Star Wars, Darth Vader, Jaws, James Bond, Indiana Jones, Mission Impossible, Jurassic Park/World, Ghostbusters Top Gun, Footloose theme song. There are some many great movies with great song. Getting rid of the song makes it so much worst. Just Imagine going to see Star Wars and not having any of the songs. It would suck very badly. Superman should not be dark. The only characters should be dark is the dark characters of DC
Bonus points: take a page or 2, or 4, out of that batman issue where Bats and Selina went on a double date with Supes and Louis to a fair. People would adore that.
It would make an interesting story if they had Lex & Brainiac join forces to stop Superman but behind the scenes Lex thinks he's outsmarting Brainiac but it's Brainiac who gets the better of him. Brainiac reminds Lex "I'm called Brainiac for a reason bitch, never play a game you can't win." I stole that from a quote Milton Fine (Who is really Brainiac in disguise) said to Lex on Smallville when he was playing pool with Lex & when he leaves Lex has a sour look on his face because Fine outsmarted him Lex tells his men to watch him meaning watch Fine. But Fine ends up outsmarting Lex again.
I’d love for Prez Lex to create the Justice League of America as a reaction to Superman making the Justice League and then the UN making the JLI. Then when Lex leaves office he makes the InJustice League
I really like the Superman vs Brainiac stuff, especially with that opening of Kandor having already been taken by Brainiac. After that opening scene, we get a montage of Superman's origins with some hopeful inspiring music. I would save the Batman cliffhanger for the sequel though. Lex Luthor becoming president should be the focus of the second movie. How I would approach the first movie is Superman and Lex Luthor start off as friends (similar to Smallville). But eventually, when Superman defeats Brainiac, he refuses to kill him. However, Lex Luthor pulls the trigger. This divides them as they find out that their ideologies are too radically different. They have a falling out. The second movie has Lex gaining support from the citizens of the US because he took out the alien invader, whereas they view Superman as not going far enough (ala Superman vs The Elite). Lex, becoming more paranoid about where Superman's allegiance would ultimately align, begins to create super-powered beings to deal with Superman. Metallo, Parasite, Living Wire, etc! At the end of the movie, Lex becomes president, and Superman is at a low point. It seems like it'll be a depressing ending... But then he comes into contact with none other than Batman. And from there we start forming both the Justice League and The Legion of Doom!
Here's my pitch for a Superman movie. It's a full-scale reboot (maybe you can tie it into the Battinson universe down the line, who cares). It's modern, it's hopeful. And yet I am doing away with nearly everything from the first Superman movie. I like Christopher Reeve a lot, but the idea that every Superman actor has to be like him is very limiting. Imagine if every Joker actor was told to just copy Jack Nicholson. Some ideas are fundamentally ingrained in the character from those films, but most can go. First, we have a whole new intro scene for the movie. We see a red blur race across the Atlantic, then the blur takes flight and plummets into the earth and pulling together a pieces of the earth. After that, you see a close up of Superman smiling and waving towards the audience. Screen goes black. Movie starts. Clark Kent is wearing a blue T-shirt that has a Superman symbol drawn on in marker, a red blanket around his neck, and some jeans. He sees an assault in progress and goes to stop a kid waving a gun at another kid. One who was bullied for far too long. Clark talks the kid down using his words and wisdom; and when the kid gives him the gun, he drops it accidentally and it goes off. The kid covers his eyes (which cover the screen too) and when he opens his eyes, we see the bullet go through the cloth, but Clark is unaffected and telling him it'll be alright. The kid cries in Clark's arms. After this, we'd get a time skip to present day where Clark has already been Superman for awhile. We see a fully complete fortress of solitude. We see he has krypto. He has a Norman Rockwell life but it's super. As Morrison once said, "If Superman is going to walk his dog, he's going to walk his dog on the moon." A strong emphasis on him being like a dad. So we see many tropes like that twisted on it's ear
People need to be reminded how cool Superman is.
I feel Cavils Superman is definitely cool
Tyler's superman is pretty cool too superman and lois is everything superman should be
Facts
@@zombierepublican lol if you think he is cool then you definitely got bullied in high school😂😂
I love Let’s Talk About’s! I was watching this with the biggest smile on my face. This series is like more conversational video essays where you guys can riff about big topics. And I love that for moments like 29:37 where Ethan goes from not knowing if you guys can do this to having a stream of awesome ideas.
Plus, the background looks rad.
Counterpoint to Superman cannot make Batman money: Ironman compared to Spider-man films....heck Ant-man money. Even after Ironman, no one expected Antman to have such a high ceiling. I think Superman has a lot more he could get as a character. Good movies that build on good characters with superheroes can write their own ticket.
I think its possible, but i think the difference between marvel and superman is that superman has the extra hurdle of general audiences thinking superman is boring unless hes gritty or darker. So a superman movie needs to prove that notion wrong
Lol I thought Captain America was boring until MCU and even Thor
@@skyyswaggstudios2934 Maybe, but MCU Captain America paved the way a moral Superman at the box office
I think part of Ant Man's success was that by then the MCU had real momentum, so people went in with the expecation that the movie would at least be decent. I think DC movies have to build up some good will before Superman will do the same numbers.
@@velemamba260 I believe that if they manage to get something unique in cinematography and compeling as own character with good PR campaign, you get cash.
I think the biggest thing with Superman is you have to really identify who the character is. You have to shine up Clark.
Ever since the Justice League/Timm era cartoons they've criminally underplayed the importance of WHO these people are over what they are. It's one sticking point that kept me off all the New 52 animated films.
If they want to address Superman using extreme force then they should do Superman vs The Elite.
I think that's sadly a dangerous game to play now. I could see so many people walking out and still agreeing with The Elite. Especially in a post Man of Steel world
I have always had so many thoughts on this subject, but I’m just gonna try to boil them down to simple bullet points:
*Movie 1 (“Superman: Man of Steel”)*
- Starts with Clark Kent meeting an unimpressed Lois Lane who dresses him down by summing up what she assumes is his “farm boy moves to the big city” background to his face, while the audience is shown flashes of the classic Superman origin from the destruction of Krypton to finding the Fortress of Solitude, then Clark simply smiles and says “…Something like that.”
- Lex Luthor is a tech/business mogul, who doesn’t seem evil at first, and even develops a kind of friendship with Superman after her stops a disastrous Lexcorp accident.
- He saves Lois during the Lexcorp accident and that starts a budding romance between Lois and Superman.
- Superman and Lex learn that Brainiac (the Siri turned Skynet from Krypton) is behind the recent technological malfunctions in Metropolis and they team up to neutralize him.
- The movie ends with Clark, having fallen in love with Lois, revealing to himself as Superman to her, only for her to tell him that she already figured it out, and they kiss.
- Mid credit scene shows that Lex is secretly dabbling in leftover Brainiac components, including his main power source: kryptonite.
- Post credit scene show signs of Batman in Gotham City.
*Movie 2 (“Superman 2: The Last Son of Krypton”)*
- We start with a montage of Superman doing his thing, fighting various members of his rogues gallery, and rescuing people, ranging from awesomely cool to adorably silly to heartwarming.
- Superman feels stretched thin and realizes that even he can't do it all.
- One day, it seems like another alien threat is crash landing to Earth, but in fact, it is a young, blonde, Kryptonian woman asleep in a pod similar to the one that brought Clark to Earth originally.
- After taking the girl to the Fortress, Superman learns that she is his cousin, Kara, who he has never met because he was a baby on Krypton, and the wormhole that their parents had sent them through time displaced their arrivals by a couple decades.
- After waking up and coming to terms with being biologically younger than her baby cousin, Kara adjusts to being on Earth and joins Clark in being a protector, known as Supergirl.
- Meanwhile, Lex is running for president, and doing fairly well, but Lois doesn't trust him, and becomes more and more obsessed with exposing his underhanded dealings.
- After a surge in super crime and catching wind the coming threat of extraterrestrial invasion (which will turn out to be the Thanagarians in future movies), Lex decides that Superman and Supergirl aren't enough, so he attempts to bio-engineer his own Kryptonian hero that is immune to kryptonite using Superman's DNA and Brainiac-enhanced technology.
- During the process, Brainiac takes over and creates a kryptonite-infused, monstrous, energy vampire version of Superman (this being an actually intimidating version of Bizarro).
- Bizarro's body naturally causes freezing temperatures and a thick overcast that severely blocks sunlight in Metropolis, and he has a predatory drive to drain Superman and Supergirl of their yellow-sun energy.
- Superman and Supergirl fight a brutal, desperate battle against Bizarro, but after realizing that he his harmed by yellow sunlight, they barely manage to force him up into space where the sun's radiation strengthens them enough to obliterate the relentless, but weakened monster.
- The movie ends with Lois and Clark putting together where Bizarro came from, and how Lex was the cause of it, only to find out that he was elected president.
- The mid credit scene sets up the Justice League, and the post credit scene sets up the Legion of Doom.
*Movie 3 ("Superman 3: Man of Tomorrow")*
- This movie would take place after a big "Justice League vs. Legion of Doom" movie.
- Superman, Batman, and Lois are trying to figure out how to expose Lex and get him impeached.
- President Luthor paints himself as the "Man of Tomorrow", and brings legitimate improvements to the country.
- At some point, Superman and Lex have a debate.
- Lex's vice president, Maxwell Lord, telepathically forces Supergirl to trap herself and her cousin in the Phantom Zone, but this only results in the release of General Zod and his elite warriors.
- Zod and his warriors overpower Superman and Supergirl because they not only are aware of how yellow sun radiation effects Kryptonians, but are actually very well trained in it, and can actually manipulate the solar energy withing their bodies to a focused, high level degree.
- They leave Superman and Supergirl for dead, and proceed to begin the takeover of Earth.
- President Luthor shows his true colors as he kills his vice president in private, and proceeds to make increasingly rash, desperate, and dangerous decisions to attempt to fight against the Kryptonian despot and his forces.
- Meanwhile, the Justice League is helping Clark and Kara heal in the Fortress while also trying to protect the world from the war between Zod and Lex.
- Eventually, once Clark and Kara are healed enough to fight, Batman (who at this point, has fought alongside the League, but declined to officially join them yet) arrives and they all devise their best battle plan.
- Using everything at their disposal, their wits, and their will, and even some villains, the Justice League manage to defeat Zod and his forces, but not without devastating cost to the world.
- Lex's actions during the war get him impeached, and his past crimes get him arrested.
- Superman and the Justice League help the world rebuild.
I love the idea of Superman taking the lessons he's learned about friendship and community being a Kryptonian, and embracing his humanity and becoming the Superman we all know and love from that
Thank you for having this discussion. We have been trying to think of fun new Superman movies, or ideas that could make a fun Superman movie without doing the gritty/dark tormented Superman.
Superman can mean so much aside from jesus allegories. Symbol for immigrants trying to find a place in a new land. Having infinite patience with people who sometimes refuse to try to be better, but you can't get angry or else you could hurt someone. Trying to show people there are better ways of handling problems.
Even with the villains we could explore more with Brainiac and a history with Krypton.
Metallo being injured from a Superman rescue and now he has a grudge against him, with Lex secretly funding the revenge scheme.
All open for more Superman ideas and discussions
Superman is hardly an immigrant though. Sure, he came from Krypton, but it's not like he grew up on Krypton and was educated on that planet and raised in that culture and believed in their values or something. He arrived on earth as a baby. He was basically a "clean slate". Other then his kryptonian biology he is as american as he can get. Isn't that the point that so many superman stories try to make? And other characters also make? Like when Batman says Superman is the most human guy he knows?
@@normansmith9009 If you're only looking at the post-Crisis John Byrne version, then yeah sure everything about him is human aside from his superpowers. But if you're looking at all of Superman's history, he's always had an alien/loner side to him that mourns the loss of Krypton.
@@ChadBenjamin I dunno the morning the loss of Krypton isn’t really a good angle in my opinion. Zach Snyder tried it to a degree and it didn’t really work. Plus just from a fundamental point of view it doesn’t really make much sense. Clark has always been the classic all American guy. Why would he morn a place he has little to no relationship with? Also I personally think Superman as a Jesus allegory can work very well, it’s just many people suck at making Christ figures interesting. The idea of a fundamentally good person (ie. Jesus or Superman) coming to a fundamentally bad place (earth) is exceedingly interesting. In its own right, you just need to focus on how people respond so someone actually being caring, compassionate and good for the sake of good as opposed to making them preachy.
@@thedukeofchutney468 The Fortress of Solitude, the Bottle City of Kandor, Kelex, the symbol he wears on his chest, Supergirl, Krypto. Superman always had a connection to Krypton even if he never experienced it himself. One of the best Superman stories of all time (For the Man Who Has Everything) is about him dreaming of an ideal life on Krypton. He was created as a Moses allegory by Jewish Canadian immigrants, he wasn't originally meant to be an all-American or a Christ figure.
@@ChadBenjamin Personally I’d actually argue that “The man who has everything” is one of the most overrated stories of all time. The symbol on his chest doesn’t really count for much as it’s just what the suit came with in most versions of the character. The same goes for the Fortress. He owns it and all but most of his interactions with its Kryptonian culture has little to do with it and it’s more akin to visiting a museum or watching a documentary. If my grandmother is from Puerto Rico that doesn’t mean that I have anything to do with the place just because I watched a documentary on TV or visited a museum.
Supergirl and Krypto also don’t really count. Supergirl is special to Superman because she is his cousin and functionally acts like a younger sister. Just because my cousin is tied to a place culturally doesn’t mean that I am. Also krypton is a dog, so using him as a symbol of how close Clark is to Krypton doesn’t make much sense. In any real sense Clark is culturally an earthling and an American to be specific.
Finally, Superman wasn’t really created to be an allegory of anyone. While parallels have been drawn between him and Moses Superman was never intended to be allegorical. Furthermore wether they were trying to or not the Jesus comparisons fit better then the Moses ones in the modern context of the character.
This actually makes a lot of sense as Christianity is simply an offshoot of Judaism. Moses was a messianic figure and Jesus was seen by the early Christian’s (who were all Jews by the way) as the ultimate messianic figure. Superman was conceived as the ultimate hero. I find it highly interesting how these parallels came about. Two Jewish boys dreaming up a character that resembles the most famous Jew in history and him having a somewhat similar backstory makes a strange amount sense when you think about it.
I feel like the first new Superman movie should be an adaption of “What’s so Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way?”
Manchester Black can represent a lot of the modern cynicism towards Superman and the world in general. He’d work great as a commentary on Homelander, Omni-man or even some of the MCU heroes that feel comfortable with killing.
It would also allow Clark to be already imbedded in the Daily Planet and give him his supporting cast.
And the finale being a twist on the ‘evil Superman’ trope that everyone seems to love would be perfect because it would solidly place optimism & Hope over Manchester Black’s “oh woah is me, the world is so dark and evil so I guess I’ll kill” philosophy.
When DC reboots Superman what do you want his suit to look like?
Personally I think they should mix the Max Fleischer outfit used in Superman and Lois with the Christopher Reeves suit from Superman the movie 1978
@@The_Blue_Otaku I think that costume mix sounds great. I personally don’t think trunks look silly as long as they are made to look like trunks rather an underpants. As long as they stick with the kryptonian S like in Christopher Reeves’s rather than the simple S of the Fleischer suit. I love the simple S in the show and cartoons but I feel in a big blockbuster you need that connection to Krypton
@@lcmck2418 Dude i agree with everything you just put here.. The weird thing is all my friends say the trunks look goofy then i jokingly told them that there taste of anime is steaming doo doo feces
I can see where you're coming from, but I'd also gladly take a theatrical release of Superman Vs. The Elite (along with some other animated DC films like Mask of The Phantasm, New Frontier or the World's Finest edit for Superman The Animated Series)
I would also like to see more of this; the pitch meeting/ writers room/ hangout is nice
If you want to make a good Superman movie, the main thing you need to do is make it HOPEFUL. If Supes isn’t inspiring people and bringing joy, then the movie has failed on its most fundamental storytelling level and the audience will pick up on that.
You’ll believe a man can fly.
Yeah. I mean, I didn’t have a problem with the world around Superman and how they reacted to him in MOS, I just had a problem with how he reacted to the people, and the character choices they made for him.
We'll never get the Snyder guys' approval. Someone could pick up exactly where he left off and they'd hate it. They don't want Superman movies, they want HIM to make Superman movies. Personally I hated all those movies and am desperate to move on to something better.
Its very telling when you hear a Snyder fan say they never liked Superman until Man of Steel. Just admit to us that you don't like Superman.
They became fans of Snyder because of Man of course, of course they want to see Henry Cavill Superman again.
You need a Superman who's written in a way that when you see him appear on screen the audience smiles. You still need conflict in the movie and I'm not saying don't let Superman not struggle, but you need that hopeful feeling of "Supermans here, we're saved!" Not everything needs to be subverted.
A “World’s Finest” movie is my new dream superhero movie
I’d say take The Batman and do the polar opposite, it’s colorful and hopeful but underneath it is a story of real issues that Clark Kent can investigate and use Superman as a persona to show those issues into the light. Bring Superman to his roots of a social Justice warrior who fought wife beaters, and greedy officials, you need him to seem like a guy he’s not crying over his dead planet or a god among men he’s a guy from Kansas with a sincerity that people mistake for naivety.
Superman vs The Klan is perfect for this kind of story
I just have the image in my head of Superman going to GCPD to turn on the bat signal. Gordon goes up there to see what’s going on, sees Superman and goes right back inside
That multiple -camera game is on point.
It's been many years of consuming ComicPop (Little House TV 😉) content and I am thankful for it everyday
This is without a doubt the greatest superman movie ever pitched.
As a frequent proponent for how good the iconic Superman story *could* be…
YESSS!!!
You guys nailed it 😉
Sweet! Surprise Comicpop content on a lazy Sunday! Thanks guys🤘
It’s funny how well you’re pitch works thematically with The Batman, with the whole opening up to others and making a difference on a larger scale
Honestly just make Superman vs the Elite as a live action movie. It explores the Superman character and it has a big fight at the end for the people that want that. Superman vs the Elite is one of the few perfect Superman stories that works in every medium at any time. It would also serve as a good commentary on the new version of superman vs man of steel.
'Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up, and transform us into something better.'
This psychotic generation would probably agree with Black though
Great video Sal , I feel Superman on film hasn’t gotten right since Superman The Movie and Superman 2 when we had the best on screen film Superman Christopher Reeve. DC hasn’t gotten Superman right on film in years at least how Superman / Clark Kent should look and sound. Superman on TV is doing so well with Superman & Lois and even Smallville with the origin of Clark Kent. Superman on film needs a huge overhaul.
Take All Star as inspiration and go totally in a different direction than Snyder.
Love this show, and love the absolutely sane and refreshing Superman takes!
I’ve found too many people’s favorite image of Superman is him with a dark background and glowing eyes instead of him sitting on a cloud want watching over the city.
I would love if you guys did this kind of sit down thing talking about multiple different characters, dc or not
With complete sincerity i'm digging Sal's pineapple shirt. As for a Superman movie Sal's been saying it for years "just get Brad Bird to do it"
Just make an adaptation of Gene Luen Yang's Superman Smashes The Klan... EASY.
Really great episode Sal. Would love to see more of these kinds of discussions between the three of you.
I’ve really grown to love Superman over the years, and I think now is THE TIME when modern audiences are most likely to resonate with a hopeful, idyllic, truly GOOD hero.
Great Discussion from Team Comicpop, sounds like the type of Superman movie I’d LOVE to see
I love it when you guys get creative and brainstorm stuff together like this. Those are my favorite episodes of Elseworlds Exchange. All of Ben's ideas were great
Ethan's comment about The Fortress of Solitude being and everything representing Superman's Kryptonian origins being frozen in ice vs. the vibrancy of his American upbringing and the life he's made for himself on this planet... dude hit deep with that one.
Only thing missing here are shots of Tiff's reactions when the guys say something ridiculous.
With care taken to balance what I'll say with fun action scenes, a Superman movie should give him a strong emotional core, and the supporting cast needed to bounce off of in order to showcase that kind of characterization. Establish Superman as a friendly guy who just wants to help and what his values are. (Contrasted with MoS/BvS where I still don't *really* know certain key aspects about him; does he care about bystanders... while _literally_ pushing a fight scene from the isolated Kent farm into downtown Smallville? Does he have a no-kill rule? Those movies give really weird mixed messages and ask the audience to think of him as having Superman values without putting in much legwork to lay the needed foundations. Or Superman Returns, where one of his values seems to be violating a family's privacy by spying and eavesdropping on them in a spectacularly unintentionally creepy scene that says even more to me about that version of Superman's values than the amnesia kiss did.)
And establish a love for journalism in Clark Kent. While Superman fights for truth and justice in a very direct hands-on way, Clark does it in a more investigative way. Bring back his passion for writing and the idea of bringing truth to light. Hell, you can bring back the idea that he writes successful novels on the side. I've never cared for Clark's personality being fake--sure, he might embellish parts of himself (spill a coffee at a strategic moment, etc), but Clark Kent should be just as valid as Superman. They're just different parts of the same guy.
Possibly the best decision of the Post-Crisis era of Superman comics was Ma and Pa Kent being alive. Clark isn't motivated by tragedy, and learning that he can't save everyone isn't a lesson that _needs_ to be taught via the death of a loved one, so letting his parents live and giving him a quiet homestead to visit and bounce fun dialogue off of was a fantastic change in the comics, and I'd LOVE to see it in the movies.
Beyond that, we need the Daily Planet supporting cast. Perry White should not be J. Jonah Jameson. He should be more like a gruff but fatherly character. A great example of Perry done well is the version from the Lois & Clark show. His fixation on Elvis aside, that was a pitch perfect Perry. And then you have Jimmy Olsen, Ron Troupe, Cat Grant, etc. Populate Superman's world and flesh these people out. And when Supes needs advise with science techno-babble, don't keep falling back on holographic ghost parents at the Fortress of Solitude. Instead, take the opportunity to develop real _alive_ characters like Emil Hamilton and/or John Henry Irons! There are so many avenues to explore that the various movies have never shown an interest in developing that can make a new adaptation stand out.
Here's my pitch on my Superman movie:
Superman : Man Of Tomorrow
Clark Kent, a 25 year old man came from Kansas to have a job in Metropolis and becoming a hero to make world a better place . However, there is a challenge for him. The first is Lex Luthor who is genius and egoistic self made billionaire who thinks himself as the hero of Metropolis. The second one is Metallo who wants to destroy the people's lives. And the third is the world who is surrounded in cynicism, crime, corruption and darkness and does not have a place for good people and not believe their intentions. When Clark knew about this, he still decided to help people and inspire them to be better. But the question is "Is there any hope and love to inspire each other and make world a better place?"
I would love to see a movie where supermans older teaching the new hero's
I really enjoy this style of content and it's a treat every time I see one in my sub section 👍👍
This video shows why I hated BvS so much. After Man of Steel, the universe was ripe for having a Lex that wanted to continue to put Superman into a bad light to the public while Superman tries to prove himself to the people following the kryptonian invasion.
It wouldve been a true meta movie addressing the divisiveness of Man of Steel as well, but instead they had Lex go hella personal right away when he couldve really been a long game villain
I like these type of discussions
This only reinforces my desire for a Superman movie we’re never gonna get
They're back and when I was reminiscing about superman
Why i didn't like him and realised why it was and I like him more a lot now
I like the idea of Superman story where Superman has been active for a little while but Clark is still new to Metropolis, I think it would be really cool and relatable to see Clark struggling with living in this big new city while trying to juggle being Superman, sort of like Superman Birthright
I really like the idea of Clark revealing to Lois and her being like “of course I know you big dummy!” And like Sal said, because she loves him and she’s great at her job
I don’t like when people that make movies focus too much on what they think the audience has already seen. I’m totally fine with seeing the origin every time a new version of the character is made. I want the dying planets , parents , and uncles 😂
Ohh we want it sal
Just follow the template of the John Byrne Man Of Steel comic. Love Jonathan showing Clark he’s showing off and doesn’t realise it playing Football. When Clark is sitting depressed after saving Lois in the Spaceplane and Ma Kent makes his suit. Corporate Bryan Cranston Lex has never been done and you can throw in the first The Batman meet up. It’s all in there
Please do more of this format
You forgot the most CRITICAL scene required in any superman reboot! Two giant double doors swing open to reveal a giant spider that Superman must battle!
They're the fiercest killers in the insect kingdom.
I like the idea of lengthening the trunks to be more like compression shorts/briefs, like a UFC fighter
loved this! need more of these please-- what we need in a GL movie, or a Punisher movie, or a whatever!
Honestly the perfect Superman pitch is earth one Superman all three volumes. The difference with Batman movies is each one (save for Batman & Robin) tried fixing something off the other film that came before it. With Supes, it was two perfect hits then they start messing up lol. Chris Reeve Superman 78 was perfect as a Superman movie, THEN they did it again with Superman II. Like perfect films with those two
We need more these conversations guys. I need a Daredevil Arkham series pitchb
When fans sometimes make more fun comic movie concepts then Hollywood.
I think that a film that uses the first arc of Morrison's N52 Action Comics as basis, with a young Superman, Brainiac and Lex as villains and Superman rooted as champion of the people would really connect with people.
I love this superman pitch movie it sounds really awesome and badass especially with introducing kandor and having the main villian be brainiac sounds really awesome and tons of fun.
Love this type of content. Anytime the team builds a theoretical movie or comic I’m there!
Out of anything, this camera angles are amazing. Great convo to fit.
The would be a perfect movie IMO
Please do another hour of this. Then the Batman version.
And Spider-Man, too.
There’s a perfect blueprint for a Superman movie. Take issues three through six of Superman: Secret Origin.
Superman in a banana hammok. His theme is a.heroic remix of The Thong Song.
Love this. Especially Lex for President in the background. Perfect for a World's Finest sequel. Definitely could set up a message of Superman helping Batman find the value to the 'Bruce Wayne' aspect of his character that he has shunned since his parent's death. It's certainly something that hasn't been genuinely explored in any Batman film so far
I love Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, enjoy Superman Returns a lot and just recently watched Superman (1978) for the first time and really liked it so I just hope we get another Superman movie. Also Superman & Lois is awesome.
fantastic! i love to see the passion about actually displaying the layers of superman.
I'd love if they used the theme from superman the animated series
absolutely love sal wearing all the hawaiian shirts in what i assume is honor to george perez 👌🏻 respect
This idea may have been spouted out already but I believe to make a decent Superman movie at least is to stay away from Lex Luthor even though he is an integral part to Superman's history. Introducing a new villain could freshen up the franchise (and no,not General Zod), no origin story, either
Superman vs the Elite would have been a great film to start from, but bvs hurt any future film. Having superman on tv for a while is fine and right now is probably for the best.
Yeah, I really think they should do Superman: Up in the Sky.
That story encapsulates everything that superman is, and everything that makes him great
i loved this conversation i feel like the points you guys touched on had me thinking about a movie where superman bridges the two worlds of krypton and earth in his heart through braninac and kandor and the love of lois and humanity as a whole
For me Superman represents the collective goodness of people. Like this is what happens when a child is raised in farmlands by a good community away from corporation. The child lives up to his best potential and helps make the world better by inspiring them.
They should play into that more. Have Superman feel like community hero and the movie can almost be overtly American. Like Rockwell painting the movie. Having a foreign invader like Brainiac would be great villain for that. Or Zod.
I’d like to see them do a mash up of super man secret origins and For all seasons with the clark kent elements personality of all star then last son of krypton as a sequel or as a stand alone version of what ever happened to to the man of tomorrow but i want the superman films to be a bright hopeful contrast to the batman not hating batman but the characters have different tones
Okay so what if there's a character that helps superman, a mid 20's/early 30's tech guy. He ends not trusting Superman, but keeps up the facade of friendliness. The movie ends with them talking, superman says "thanks for your help Alex"
"Oh nono Superman we're passed formalities, my friends call me Lex"
Superman leaves and Lex starts working on project METALLO, using a chunk of kryptonite that Braniac had to fight Superman.
Can even have it too that the reason he starts to hate him is because Superman was preoccupied doing something not really important, and Alex is doing work trying to figure out something. He's doing an experiment that blows up the lab, and singing his beautiful red hair. Which is why he starts to hate Superman, "he should've been here to save me, instead he was trapsing about with Lois Lane. We can't trust someone with that kind of power"
Keeping Superman away from Hack Snyder would be a good start.
Everything you guys said is what I want out of a Superman movie.
and yeah Lex needs to be there, something like Loki in Thor movies
The Lois subplot could have their relationship at the point where they should be engaged, but Clark hasn't proposed because he feels alone and when he realizes he's of Earth and not Krypton, then they get engaged, but none of this is ever spelled out, you just get a nice scene where he hands her the ring, says he doesn't want to be alone anymore, and everything thereafter is a given.
I really think there is a good screenplay and movie to be made from Tom King’s ‘Up In The Sky.’ It captures perfectly how important Superman still is and if they got that right, it could be a brilliant solo movie.
Let Superman keep his trunks 🙏🏾
I'd adore to see more pitches like this from just, the gang, this was great.
Tyler Hoechlin Superman is so good 🔥🔥🔥🔥🙌
I love y'alls idea for Kandor
This is impossible but to me , adapt Superman: For All Seasons. It’s such a perfect picture of what he can be for an audience.
If Warner Brothers is smart, the tone they'll go for a DC cinematic universe is the equivalent of Alex Ross' art. That is to day, get these characters into obviously silly spandex outfits, but make it look epic. However, they do need to take one thing from Marvel: not taking themselves _too_ seriously without going into straight-up camp. Joel Shumacher's Batman is a good lesson for why the camp of the 66 TV show won't work a second time (I'd argue it didn't work the first time, but I know I'll get shouted down if I try to make that into an argument)
DC's villain (or villain adjacent) movies are seemingly foolproof how about they do "Legion of Doom: E'Lex'tion Year".
One of the most important aspects into making a great Superman movie . Keep both Kent's alive so that Clark and Superman can have so real conversations about his place in the world at the hero.Also we get to see their point of view of their son as a person, hero and overall good human being. Superman is a result of their upbringing Clark into being a good person. Also telling a good story first then put Superman into it second. Any good writer will study first to really understand who Superman is as Clark Kent. Because Superman is just Clark Kent being himself out in the public. Show Clark having regular people interest. One of my biggest arguments and problem that i had with Zack Snyder vision. He focus on showing Superman as this god-like figure instead of showing him as a regular person. The public sees Superman as a god like person. But we as veiwers should be seeing him as a regular guy. Because we are watching the behind the scenes of his life that the public cannot see. Superman for all seasons is one of the best Superman stories about him. The best way that I can describe Superman is that he is a bright and hopeful individual that have darker moments around him and how he handled those dark moments and situations is whats important. The mcu captain America was bright and hopeful yet he had to deal with alot of dark moments around himself. Seeing how he dealt with it without losing his core principles and values was very interesting to see. That's how you write Superman. Jonathan and Martha Kent instilled within him core values. Seeing him deal with darker and more no respect for Life villains . Yet he still can keep those core values that Jonathan and Martha Kent instilled within him.
What if they try and do something from like more recent things and just make a movie about Superman as a dad and training Jon or something. Would that be too much for a first movie. I mean we kinda have that in Superman and Lois but it could work for a movie too.
Love this video and all of the ideas presented. I think his costume should be based on his season 4 look in _Young Justice_ (Red belt, no briefs).
I just wish we got a true Man of Steel sequel
I mean like one that doesn’t co-star another superhero
I would love to see more of these for different characters. Also, I would absolutely watch a Superman movie pitched by the three of you.
I think we need an art house filmmaker like PTA or someone who has a distinct visual style that would work well with a Superman movie
this is such a smart idea
Engagement with video to please the grand code that decides what gets shown!
WB need to get a great actor like Christopher Reeves Brandon Routh and Tyler Hoechlin. There should have Superman theme song in the movie. Not having Superman theme song is like not having Harry Potter, Star Trek, Star Wars, Darth Vader, Jaws, James Bond, Indiana Jones, Mission Impossible, Jurassic Park/World, Ghostbusters Top Gun, Footloose theme song. There are some many great movies with great song. Getting rid of the song makes it so much worst. Just Imagine going to see Star Wars and not having any of the songs. It would suck very badly. Superman should not be dark. The only characters should be dark is the dark characters of DC
Bonus points: take a page or 2, or 4, out of that batman issue where Bats and Selina went on a double date with Supes and Louis to a fair. People would adore that.
It would make an interesting story if they had Lex & Brainiac join forces to stop Superman but behind the scenes Lex thinks he's outsmarting Brainiac but it's Brainiac who gets the better of him. Brainiac reminds Lex "I'm called Brainiac for a reason bitch, never play a game you can't win." I stole that from a quote Milton Fine (Who is really Brainiac in disguise) said to Lex on Smallville when he was playing pool with Lex & when he leaves Lex has a sour look on his face because Fine outsmarted him Lex tells his men to watch him meaning watch Fine. But Fine ends up outsmarting Lex again.
I’d love for Prez Lex to create the Justice League of America as a reaction to Superman making the Justice League and then the UN making the JLI. Then when Lex leaves office he makes the InJustice League
I really like the Superman vs Brainiac stuff, especially with that opening of Kandor having already been taken by Brainiac. After that opening scene, we get a montage of Superman's origins with some hopeful inspiring music.
I would save the Batman cliffhanger for the sequel though. Lex Luthor becoming president should be the focus of the second movie. How I would approach the first movie is Superman and Lex Luthor start off as friends (similar to Smallville). But eventually, when Superman defeats Brainiac, he refuses to kill him. However, Lex Luthor pulls the trigger. This divides them as they find out that their ideologies are too radically different. They have a falling out.
The second movie has Lex gaining support from the citizens of the US because he took out the alien invader, whereas they view Superman as not going far enough (ala Superman vs The Elite). Lex, becoming more paranoid about where Superman's allegiance would ultimately align, begins to create super-powered beings to deal with Superman. Metallo, Parasite, Living Wire, etc! At the end of the movie, Lex becomes president, and Superman is at a low point. It seems like it'll be a depressing ending... But then he comes into contact with none other than Batman. And from there we start forming both the Justice League and The Legion of Doom!
A new Superman movie needs to have the classic John Williams score.
Man of steel costume is perfect
late to the party, but I love this idea. just the three of you bouncing ideas around is a fun time.
Here's my pitch for a Superman movie. It's a full-scale reboot (maybe you can tie it into the Battinson universe down the line, who cares). It's modern, it's hopeful. And yet I am doing away with nearly everything from the first Superman movie. I like Christopher Reeve a lot, but the idea that every Superman actor has to be like him is very limiting. Imagine if every Joker actor was told to just copy Jack Nicholson. Some ideas are fundamentally ingrained in the character from those films, but most can go. First, we have a whole new intro scene for the movie. We see a red blur race across the Atlantic, then the blur takes flight and plummets into the earth and pulling together a pieces of the earth. After that, you see a close up of Superman smiling and waving towards the audience. Screen goes black. Movie starts. Clark Kent is wearing a blue T-shirt that has a Superman symbol drawn on in marker, a red blanket around his neck, and some jeans. He sees an assault in progress and goes to stop a kid waving a gun at another kid. One who was bullied for far too long. Clark talks the kid down using his words and wisdom; and when the kid gives him the gun, he drops it accidentally and it goes off. The kid covers his eyes (which cover the screen too) and when he opens his eyes, we see the bullet go through the cloth, but Clark is unaffected and telling him it'll be alright. The kid cries in Clark's arms. After this, we'd get a time skip to present day where Clark has already been Superman for awhile. We see a fully complete fortress of solitude. We see he has krypto. He has a Norman Rockwell life but it's super. As Morrison once said, "If Superman is going to walk his dog, he's going to walk his dog on the moon." A strong emphasis on him being like a dad. So we see many tropes like that twisted on it's ear