I went at the age of 29 (life happened), I had fantastic A level grades and got into a decent uni, to get my first degree in September, I was shocked how little they explain at the so called “lectures”, just power points….I picked a business degree. For 9 THOUSAND A YEAR I’d expect a lot of help… I have just left yesterday after one month. Yes some careers require it (law, nhs jobs) it’s not about the money because you don’t pay it back before you earn 27,000k, it’s the time wasted and NOT getting a well paid job.
For my parent's generation it was probably worth it. But a lot of the university courses seem to lack depth now. People enter the workplace from uni and they know next to nothing compared the ones who have learned on the job.
University should be free, but far, far fewer people should be going, and there should be fewer universities offering fewer degrees. Blair's idea of getting the entire country to go to uni has made degrees worthless.
The actual target was 50% of young people going on. But I think your point stands. Blairs problem is that he really believed that an educated population would be more productive. But the limit on worker productivity isn't academic attainment and never was. The block is management's ability and willingness to invest for the long term and create more productive jobs.
Certain courses should be free, some are. It should be geared towards what are gaps in the job market with a greater emphasis on training our own rather than relying on immigration to plug holes.
@@mowogfpv7582University gives young people something to do whilst the employers reduced their required workforce via technology or outsourced the roles to cheaper labour.
@@iainclark5964Exactly. I think a lot of the attacks by Tory politicians and the media on higher education are ideological. They don't want regular kids learning critical perspectives and they don't want regular kids learning how to be creative. In other words, they may get ideas above their station.
I graduated in the 80s. No fees and had a maintenance grant. So no debt. Looking back over my life, I can say it would not have been worth £70k of debt.
There's no one-size fits all. One problem is that apprenticeships are seen as second-class, whereas, as this guest explains they are a great alternative. That said, university is about so much more than academic learning as the other guest alluded to. What this country needs is an overhaul of the post-18 education system so that young people can take full advantage of the options that will allow them to have great careers, minimal debt and happy healthy futures.
Yes maybe seen as second class but in the nhs it’s the exact same unis and teachers providing the education. Also it’s NHS professionals teaching the students on the job. This is a better way of being skilled up instead of sat in a classroom.
Degree apprenticeship is best. Im sure you will agree as you get same exact degree and the experience without the debt. Yes some apprenticeships are seen as second class like plumbing or carpentry but there are many degree apprenticeships with top banking law firms which are well regarded.
Concerning the poll. If roughly 40% of people are earning a degree but only half of them are getting "graduate jobs", then only 20% of people are likely to see university debt as being worth it.
Hi there's also that student loans in many instances don't start being repayable until students reach certain income thresholds means the current system is appallingly bad use of taxpayers money. Many students will never start to pay back their student loan and obviously then many more will never pay back the full amount owed. This shortfall the taxpayer pays for
@@tonytresigne5929 but thats how it ALWAYS used to be - when I did my degree in 1992 there were no student loans, there were no fees at all for the teaching costs (fully funded by the tax payer) and on top of that parents were means tested and if your parents were poor (mine were) you were given a grant (taxpayer funded) to pay for the maintenance side of it. So you cannot possibly argue that now its WORSE for the taxpayer - as it most certainly is not. The money fully repaid by the people who do pay back their loans and the extortionate interest does offset a lot of what is 'written off'.
@@richardparker82 hi I think you've missed the intent of my post. Because from a taxpayer perspective it used to be bad bad and now it's bad that still doesn't make it good does it? A conversation I had with my daughter recently who was concerned about going to uni because of the idea of having student debt. I told her there's different types of debt and seen as an investment within herself and quite frankly if I'm earning approx 30 thousand a year and can't afford the equivalent of a broadband TV package I'm doing something very wrong. Fair play if you think different and obviously the cost of courses and the subjects offered not having earning potential are different issues but I do feel student loans are a good deal for students and a poor deal for the taxpayer
@@tonytresigne5929 under the new plan I believe the stats suggest that close to 99% of the student loan money initally given out is recouped, and under plan 2 I think it was nearly 70%. (I think these are the figures I remember but could be wrong). And would that money be better served elsewhere maybe? but you do end up getting back most of the money. The larger issue is the lack of "high paying job" or jobs that require degrees that pay 20-22k (These were admin jobs which only really require gcse's but this was their requirements). Since you have an opinion, what would be your solution?
Try becoming a doctor, lawyer, dentist, engineer without a degree…it depends on the career. If the career doesn’t require a degree then it comes down to one’s ambition rather than need. For instance, a degree is unnecessary for photography unless you want to work for the kinds of employers who will value a BA in Photography such as publishers, archives, academia, etc.
In my opinion, university degrees should come with some kind of "job guarantee" to justify the cost. So, if a student gets at least a 2:2, they're GUARANTEED a job. But that's not how it works. Going to university guarantees debt, but it doesn't guarantee a job. I'll use myself as an example. For instance, I went to university in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I feel proud to be a graduate, but didn't help me in getting a job at all. I tried every means possible to get even a part-time job since the age of 16, but I've had no luck at all. I've now come to accept that getting a job wasn't my destiny. The whole of my 20s have been a huge financial struggle, so at 30 I'm now working towards setting up my own tech start-up and hope God will open the doors for my success that way. I also wish success to everyone else in my shoes. Stay positive and never give up on yourself!
I’m not sure if there’s any right or wrong with this. My 20 year old son passed his A Levels but was adamant that he didn’t want to go to uni and wanted to take his chances in the workplace. We were disappointed to be honest but he’s proved himself right, has started a career in the Civil Service and saved every penny for his car.
Well done to your son. I graduated in IT in 2017 and joined the Civil Service in 2019 and I am still currently working for the CS. In hindsight I wish I had started working in CS instead of wasting 3 years at University. I wish to stress that I have never held a job related to my degree.
I didn't go to university. I have two colleagues I work with who both have degrees and uni debt, doing the same job as me. I think that answers the question.
I see your point, if you're going to end up doing work that doesn't require a degree then going to uni might not be worth it. I went to university, but my education and degree didn't help me in getting a job, despite all my hardest efforts sic I was 16 years old. I'm now 30 and working to set up my own business and make a success of my life regardless. Sky's the limit!
See who gets promotion first and that's where having a degree can be a real difference. Uk Higher education supplies the world most mid - high level managers. You may be doing the same thing now. But for you to progress to higher level, you need to get education one way or another and built the network of peers of similar age or different age but same institution.
Does it? Is the SOLE worth of a degree the job you get at the end of it? Not all of the extracurriculars you can do, opportunities to study abroad, the people you meet, the independence and life experience it gives you? I'm sure your colleagues look back on their time at university fondly and appreciate the experiences, opportunities, and memories it gave - does that not make it worth it?
This is what happens when you fix the price at a point below what it costs to teach AND promise a sector that every student will be able to afford the degree using a government backed student loan.
The problem is apprenticeship scheme opportunities are still very limited especially the degree pathways. Some courses are not "lucrative" enough for apprenticeship admissions, so students are left with the option of taking up full time uni routes instead!!! Either way, staying focussed, planning and understanding what you want to do is the key!
I a none graduate cannot understand why a student/ graduate fails to realise that until they earn a higher wage than the threshold of having to pay back, they are not in debt. Does intelligence not apply to them?
But the threshold is only £25k, only £1,250 pa above minimum wage so it's not a case of earning a higher wage before you hit the threshold. You barely need to earn above minimum wage before you hit it.
So one guest is in £100k debt and convinced herself that it was an investment with two degrees that I have no idea what she studied and how she will make more money than the debt 🙈 If you are going to get someone to argue for university being worth the debt get someone working in law, finance, medicine, cybersecurity, engineering etc not a professional student 😅
I just finished an integrated masters, now 60k in debt, but going into a job that pays 56k salary. Even on that I wont cover the interest on my loan with default payments (unless I get a bonus) so it's still pretty ridiculous at some points. I do agree she wasn't the best example. I believe apprenticeships are the way forward. And degrees have been over inflated and they mean less.
£100k in debt and being charged 8% interest which she admits will never be paid off. But that debt has to be paid by someone. Oh yes, it's the tax payer. Also given that her current role is education support (I read that as a sales rep for universities), a role that I'm sure needs no degreee level education, yet her first degree was in religion and politics in society and her post grad was in education policy in society which I don't believe have any tangible link to the role she ended up in meaning the £100k debt she got herself in was completely pointless.
The generation entering university over the last 13 years are being royally taken to the cleaners. It is not fair on this generation. People forget that before 1998 going to university used to be free and one also got a grant to boot. Bring back those days. Why should this generation get a raw deal?
Speaking as a bit of an outlier here. Went to university, got a 2.2 studying business, over 2 years to land my graduate job but since then excelled tremendously working in fintech, making Director at 28 and paid off my uni debt by at 29 (now 33 for context). Whilst you'd think I'd be in favour, the opposite is true. Every skill related to my career was acquired post graduation. Knowing what i know now, there are other routes to achieve similar levels of success than to go to university. Imo, universities should be for specific careers in medicine, science, finance etc. Taking out a debt to have "experiences" does not make any sense to me.
In my opinion, university degrees should come with some kind of "job guarantee" to justify the cost. So, if a student gets at least a 2:2, they're GUARANTEED a job. But that's not how it works. Going to university guarantees debt, but it doesn't guarantee a job. I'll use myself as an example. For instance, I went to university in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I feel proud to be a graduate, but didn't help me in getting a job at all. I tried every means possible to get even a part-time job since the age of 16, but I've had no luck at all. I've now come to accept that getting a job wasn't my destiny. The whole of my 20s have been a huge financial struggle, so at 30 I'm now working towards setting up my own tech start-up and hope God will open the doors for my success that way. I also wish success to everyone else in my shoes. Stay positive and never give up on yourself!
Apprenticeships are valuable and have their place; however, this country also needs scientists to push the boundaries of science, research, and development. This is what maintains our global scientific and economic position.
Hi apprenticeships that teach valuable skills 100%. Unfortunately when the likes of companies like Morr!sons being paid by the taxpayer to teach people how to stock shelves being a huge provider of apprenticeships they're exploiting the system and taking advantage of an opportunity to get cheap employees of little benefit to the trainee
Scientists (who also double up as lectures a lot of the time in this country) are severely overworked, underpaid, grants have been increasingly difficult to get due to Brexit (most used to come from the EU but we are not preferred anymore), and so government funded projects and projects with large pharmaceuticals have been the main way to go these days. There is no way with that, scientists will be able to continue to compete with others around the world. Also research scientist as a career route is really not great. This is talking from personal experience, as well as feedback from family, friends, and lecturers whom I've interacted with in the past 10 years. I agree it should be apprenticeship + study at the same time. Directly being able to link what you're learning to what you're doing for work is very gratifying for a lot of people. You can do this for STEM subjects as well. Apprenticeships should be available for all industries.
I got a BA and MA amd heavily regret it. I heavily advise that unless you want to be something like a doctor, lawyer, or engineer then don't bother with university. Go straight into an entry level role or internship in your industry.
University is bs. Degree apprenticeship is the way foward. Its very difficult to get a job after uni graduation People go university to study useless degrees and get no where. Degree apprenticeships r very competitive only disadvantage you will be working and studying at the same and u wont get a lot of free time. Whereas you will get a lot of free time in uni. The times we are in are financially very difficult. The debt is crazy and not worth. Having the skills and learning new skills is far more beneficial.
University graduates are far less likely to be unemployed, far more likely to be working in skilled labor, and earn on average 9k more than non-graduates. The stats say that a degree in the UK is well worth it. The lifetime premium for a degree in the UK - that is how much more you earn after taxes and student loan repayments - is £100k for women and £130k for men compared to non-graduates. Ask anyone if over their lifetime they'd like to earn 100k more and see how they feel?
Depends what you study. I did nursing for the NHS which guarantees me a life of poverty and retirement at 71. £1800 per month after tax etc. Waste of money, I self funded myself to do finance and now I’m on £48k. £2.7k per month after tax etc and retirement at 57 should I choose to. So don’t do a Mickey Mouse degree that guarantees you poverty. Nursing, occupational therapy, physio therapy, speech and language therapy or operation department practitioner. Do a degree that will get you a high salary job
The issue is not the debt. It is much worse. In those 10-15 years after graduation when you are trying to get a house and start a family, there is essentially a crushing 9% tax on all earnings above the minimum wage.
Only go university if you actually need a degree for the career you want (e.g. medicine, law, engineering etc.) or you're wasting your time and money doing a degree just because "it's interesting". Unless of course you're rich and can afford to go study an arts subject, have someone to sponsor you or you're okay with possibly being not well off for the rest of your life struggling to pay bills. Best route imo is if you go down the degree apprenticeship route if possible for your career choice(engineering companies do this), you get industry experience and a degree paid for by the company you're working for, just takes twice as much time (think they last around 6 years) but you come out of it with no debt and lots of industry experience. The lady in light pink is very correct. Going into a trade is a good option too, can be physically demanding though but if you're up for it might as well, they can make good money.
As someone who done a MSc in Chemistry, and now is doing a PhD in Chemistry, 100% agree, there is way too much pressure on people to go to university, when in fact for the majority it is a poor decision, universities should be pressured to reduce the number of students they are allowed to accept for a course (only accepting those actually qualified), as well as reduce the capacity of some of their courses, it should be a sector for education, not a business. For example, for those doing biology/chemistry/computer science/law/business there is a HUGE demand for those roles in the job market, by contrast, degrees such as sociology, psychology, sports & exercise science etc etc or even more so over specified degrees, like those said by the girl here, have a much lower demand, and in those cases, unless you are very active and dedicated to a career in those areas, doing a lot of additional volunteering work along side your degree, the likelihood of you getting a career in those areas, without building a business yourself, is VERY low, and benefiting from a degree economically is unlikely.
In my opinion, university degrees should come with some kind of "job guarantee" to justify the cost. So, if a student gets at least a 2:2, they're GUARANTEED a job. But that's not how it works. Going to university guarantees debt, but it doesn't guarantee a job. I'll use myself as an example. For instance, I went to university in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I feel proud to be a graduate, but didn't help me in getting a job at all. I tried every means possible to get even a part-time job since the age of 16, but I've had no luck at all. I've now come to accept that getting a job wasn't my destiny. The whole of my 20s have been a huge financial struggle, so at 30 I'm now working towards setting up my own tech start-up and hope God will open the doors for my success that way. I also wish success to everyone else in my shoes. Stay positive and never give up on yourself!
It is not a debt. It doesn't affect your credit score/history. You barely pay anything back. If you do pay back, you don't see it come out of your account.
In my opinion, university degrees should come with some kind of "job guarantee" to justify the cost. So, if a student gets at least a 2:2, they're GUARANTEED a job. But that's not how it works. Going to university guarantees debt, but it doesn't guarantee a job. I'll use myself as an example. For instance, I went to university in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I feel proud to be a graduate, but didn't help me in getting a job at all. I tried every means possible to get even a part-time job since the age of 16, but I've had no luck at all. I've now come to accept that getting a job wasn't my destiny. The whole of my 20s have been a huge financial struggle, so at 30 I'm now working towards setting up my own tech start-up and hope God will open the doors for my success that way. I also wish success to everyone else in my shoes. Stay positive and never give up on yourself!
I'm in the US, and here in the US, your student loan payment is based on how much you borrow meaning it is actually a loan you have to pay. In the UK, your student loan payment is tied to your income which does essentially make it simply an extra tax you have to pay as opposed to a loan as the one lady said. The US does have income based repayment plans for student loan borrowers, but you have to apply for them as they are not automatic. In the UK, it's automatic. I have done research into how student loan systems in other countries actually work, and it is an interesting thing to research. Overall, I think their system is still better than our system here in the US, but it still has it's flaws.
After watching this I calculated I would need a Salary of at least £75000 per year depending on future interest rates to pay of my £69000 student loan balence. This is just for a standard 3 Year Undergraduate Degree within the remaining 25 years i have left. How realistic is it that most graduates are going to achieve these kind of salaries.
Both of these contributors are right - HOWEVER everyone would want to get into a degree apprenticeship if they could but you cant because they are almost impossible to get into! My son went to try and get on one in a bank in London and its basically the same pain and struggle as watching the Apprentice on TV - its so competitive - 100's of people all trying to get one or two roles going through rounds and rounds of nerve-wracking stress. Should be noted they also wanted very good A-Level results also... So lets be realistic today - the vast majority (always exceptions, especially if you have a 'network' ) still would need a degree to get the HIGH paid jobs simply due to competitiveness and barriers to entry. There is no point anyone talking about "in my day it was blah blah" because the population was considerably less then and also far less competition from abroad, not to mention the cost of living compared to average wage was far less back then. I agree with the woman's view that getting student debt is an INVESTMENT (just like starting a business is) but in student loan case you only have to pay it back if you are successful (and even then its like a tax - you only have to pay a % a month, not the lump sum if you suddenly become successful). Where it breaks down is when the actual maintenance costs aren't even covered by student loan allowances so even then you have to get a part time job on top. I really dont see a fairer way of doing it other than this "if you dont earn enough then you dont have to pay it back" considering the UK finances and population of today. The point of Uni being a half way house for kids to experiment and turn into adults under more controlled and safer conditions should also not be underestimated - its not all about money.
Absolutely not worth it. When I was applying for a graduate job several years ago, I remember Indeed used to show you how many people also to applied for the same job. In my case it was over 400 people applying for the same listing that had no more than 3 vacancies if i remember correctly. I couldn't imagine how much worse it is now. The value of a degree is lower than it has ever been. Even with a degree, the odds are massively stacked against you.
Free education for British people. Same with healthcare. Everyone else pays. Let’s fix our economy. It may not be the nice thing to do. But it’s the right thing to do
Get a degree and ignore all other options. My apprenticeship and manual skills mean nothing to companies! They just want a degree no matter what it's in.
Ironically I found the opposite when looking for work recently. It should be a half way in between where you can get a certification but also learn practical skills at the same time. There's no way I would have got any of my jobs on a degree alone. I only get them because I had work experience, which they quoted to me when getting offered the job.
The problem really is that apprenticeships and job experience are not recognised in the academic points system. They should count as a degree equivalent then UCAS points could be applied to them. In my experience as an employer I would take an apprentice over one of these underwater basket weavers any day.
In my opinion, university degrees should come with some kind of "job guarantee" to justify the cost. So, if a student gets at least a 2:2, they're GUARANTEED a job. But that's not how it works. Going to university guarantees debt, but it doesn't guarantee a job. I'll use myself as an example. For instance, I went to university in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I feel proud to be a graduate, but didn't help me in getting a job at all. I tried every means possible to get even a part-time job since the age of 16, but I've had no luck at all. I've now come to accept that getting a job wasn't my destiny. The whole of my 20s have been a huge financial struggle, so at 30 I'm now working towards setting up my own tech start-up and hope God will open the doors for my success that way. I also wish success to everyone else in my shoes. Stay positive and never give up on yourself!
Its not worth the debt, but you have no choice because of jobs barrier to entery. So people stop wasting time talking about it, the government new exactly what they were doing, only the rich will end up benefiting from this. Also is that girl talking about saying you dont need to pay it back, yes you do and later on in life the numbers start adding up.
Got two music degrees. Took out $80K USD in school loans and my total payments after interest paid was $108K. The first few years after graduation, I worked two jobs and spent well within my means. Rented an extremely small studio (less than 500 sq feet) for less than $800 USD per month. Best money I ever spent. Have my dream job and paid off my debt in just under 10 years. Own my own home as well. The debt is well worth it if you achieve your goals and focus on attaining happiness as your life's purpose.
Glad it worked out for you in the end bud but you applied over a decade ago. Music degrees and any other degree in the Creative Arts are the worse degrees you could pick today with the emergence of A.I. It's definitely not worth the effort of breaking your back working 2 jobs and living in a tiny misreable studio apartment and eating cheapo food. Today you'd be better off learn a trade.
I have a friend with no formal qualifications but he got a guitar when he was 5 and he practiced on it for 3-15 hours a day up to the age of 19. He always does well playing and is one of the richest people in the town.
Universities and loans are businesses. The more 'customers' the system can generate, the better the business. Ever wondered why most years pass rates increase?
Just look on indeed, every single job description have requirement:1-2years of experience. I am telling you, I have MA degree and it doesn't help me much.
Uni set up for middle class and above,jobs already waiting for them at daddy’s company.most working class kids end up in debt for years and can never get the job they studied for.all to keep you under that poor threshold 👍🏼 Leave school or college and get straight into work .
Don't forget that threshold for repayment does NOT increase with inflation. It is set by your student loan plan. So after a decade or two you may end up making repayments even if you are in a low paying job.
I notice that the people with degrees (on average) in my industry (tech) begin to outdo their non uni educated colleagues over time. None of my degrees were in my field, but they did give me the skills to train myself in new skills to a high standard. Overall though, there are many more factors than just education that will determine your individual success.
For me, the whole point of getting a degree is so that you can get a good job at the end of it. The guest who was pro university said you dont have to pay the loan back. That's fine if you want to work in an average pay job until the loan has expired. If you want to earn a decent salary, you will have to repay the loan which will then have repercussions if you want to get a mortgage or any other loans. I dropped out of university as I wasn't enjoying the course so my highest qualifications are A Levels & NVQ level 3. Now at the age of 48, my salary is between 45-50K plus good benefits and I work from home or am visiting sites. I got where I am from building my experience in my early jobs which lead to natural career progression. I could take a job in London earning way more, but choose not to commute every day.
The fact that we are living in a crisis and this girl thinks sadly 25k is a good salary as someone who is earning that. Yeah maybe 10/20 years ago when I started working but I'm earning that as a small business owner and trust me it doesn't go far. Started open uni a few years ago part time to be able to help folks with their mental health so I know very well my earnings with that will be limited but I would also have to earn little to have it paid, then do uni and also get experience in the role for free to hope that a job comes out it is just insane.
Student loans are NOT taken into consideration by credit agencies due to the very nature of how you have to pay them back. It will not impact your mortgage application unless you are over stretching yourself.
@richardparker82 yeah but if you are already earning that threshold you will be expected to pay before you start the course. So being a mature student it's not that easy but then what do you do otherwise? As a cleaner/carer I have nowhere else to go into to help get something to show I am more than what I do and when you have health issues and just want to future proof yourself its enough to cause a breakdown. Yet the same course is given away for free to anyone that is on benefits or prison which is why I feel so short-changed. Spent my whole entire life living and working by the rules and now I want to make a difference I have to magic this money up in the off chance I could get work that pays the same if not more. Sorry just upset I've worked so hard to have it be stopped because of a figure I can't help without making myself poorer for next few years.
What people are not realising is that when you apply for a student’s loan, yes you don’t have to pay it back until one’s earning is above a certain threshold yet what they fail to tell you is this…. Interest starts that day you take out that loan and calculates each and every month adding to the fee payable. So let’s say you are out of work for 2 or 3 years, interest is still being added to your student account. I found this out when I received my statement. The government has been finessing us all with these bogus degrees.
I think education should be free for all ages. But i do think university can be a waste of time for most people my cousin went to university and he is a delivery driver.
Well, many jobs require at least a bachelor, many senior roles require a masters, and almost every academic and research career path require a doctorate. Yes, university is not mandatory, but it opens doors.
I think that degrees have become the new A level and its now so prohibitively expensive that it excludes kids from regular backgrounds. Its sad because there are probably many kids who would excel.
I went at the age of 29 (life happened), I had fantastic A level grades and got into a decent uni, to get my first degree in September, I was shocked how little they explain at the so called “lectures”, just power points….I picked a business degree. For 9 THOUSAND A YEAR I’d expect a lot of help… I have just left yesterday after one month. Yes some careers require it (law, nhs jobs) it’s not about the money because you don’t pay it back before you earn 27,000k, it’s the time wasted and NOT getting a well paid job.
If you are reading this after you have your A-Level results I would say go for an apprenticeship, prefereably a degree apprenticeship. I went and did maths at University and my brother did a degree apprenticeship I struggeled to get a job and now im in a job on around 24k and my brother has now 4 years of experience in his field with a degree and went on a year travelling experience on a 30-40k salary. Right now you only need a degree if you are doing something like medicine a career that needs a degree. Most companies I have found when looking value experience over a degree. So if you are worried about university or unsure defer your offer take a gap year and work for a bit or travel and work abroad, if you can, after your gap year you can always go back to start your degree the following year. Don't do it to please someone else, do it for you and think about it.
There are no bad choices here. A university degree is more flexible and transferable however. You might struggle to get a job abroad, especially in a different field, with only an apprenticeship.
No, absolutely not. I would not have gone to university had I have had to come out with a 70k debt charging 8% interest PA. And recent recommendations are that to survive, universities will have to UP tuition fees. Treating our young this way is insane, and absolutely criminal.
My advice to today's kids. Don't bother unless you are doing a STEM subject or 100% know what career you want AND the degree will help you get there. Otherwise it isn't worth the cost and you should consider starting work now, getting a degree abroad, doing an apprenticeship, or learning a trade (you can change careers after 10 years, but a trade skill is with you for life and a good back up source of income).
If they work in the UK paying into the tax system, forgive the debt after ten years. Lumping young people with huge debts has costs to the country, they will not be as brave taking risks, it makes the country less dynamic.
More flexibility is needed. There should not be so much pressure to send everyone into university. There should be many apprenticeships for school leavers and higher level degree apprenticeships as well. Plus lots of other forms of training and studying part-time to aquire important skills and knowledge. Post 16 education needs an overhaul with a lot more options for teenagers and young people.
Although having worked in it for decades, I can tell you the tech industry is a smoking ruin right now, and I've never know so many experienced workers to be "Open to work" on LinkedIn. It's also changed a lot, and a horrible industry to be in compared to how it used to be. My advice is to avoid. There are MUCH better options these days...
Having gone to university after A-levels, and a work based uni apprenticeship later in life, I can say university is not worth it. I went to uni when we got a grant too. Working in the field & learning is a much richer experience. Like this black female (Also being a black female) I feel I was institutionalised & believed this was the only option. It’s not, and best investment in yourself is the one that doesn’t clip your wings & makes you happy.
Not for UK legally resident students unless taking medicine and law. UK people are denied places on courses due to COST of housing, accommodation, energy bills. Then add to this the courses and places closed to them by the mega paid University executives who impose quotas for foreign students who want to study what? Lucrative LAW AND MEDICINE in the UK as it is the highest world qualification in those subjects. Who now owns the UK NHS and Legal system!?
Imagine wasting years of your life going to uni for a degree in something completely useless like "Marketing" and then been in debt for the rest of your time as a young adult... Being educated clearly doesn`t mean that you are in any way smart...
In my opinion, university degrees should come with some kind of "job guarantee" to justify the cost. So, if a student gets at least a 2:2, they're GUARANTEED a job. But that's not how it works. Going to university guarantees debt, but it doesn't guarantee a job. I'll use myself as an example. For instance, I went to university in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I feel proud to be a graduate, but didn't help me in getting a job at all. I tried every means possible to get even a part-time job since the age of 16, but I've had no luck at all. I've now come to accept that getting a job wasn't my destiny. The whole of my 20s have been a huge financial struggle, so at 30 I'm now working towards setting up my own tech start-up and hope God will open the doors for my success that way. I also wish success to everyone else in my shoes. Stay positive and never give up on yourself!
I think you should do what is right for you. Both options have merit and fluidity. However, you can change subjects after your first year if you want to do a different course ❤
I've always loved Richard Madley as a presenter and I also think Trisha is excellent too. Very interesting subjects, both young ladies were very professional and intelligent, and have so much wisdom. How to have an interesting debate without the punch and judy shouting match that's on so many news channels these day 😊
University is both a waste of time and money for most courses unless you want to do a job that needs a degree such as doctor or nurse etc. Many schools advise most of their students to do degrees because it looks good for them to have X number of pupils going on to do undergraduate degrees but I think that most of the teachers who are advising the students don’t actually care about what’s best for the students.
It really all depends on what subject you choose, and why you're doing it. If you think a degree (any degree) is still a passport to a good job, sadly those days are long gone...
Not at the moment because of the interest on the loan. I have a 40k loan to repay which is fine, I took the loan out so I have to repay it. But I’m paying between 300 to 400 pounds a month and the loan amount is still going up annually as that’s not enough to cover the interest
No I don't think so when you think of how much you have to pay back in interest to the lender. There is no guarantee you will get a job that can pay back the loan. A car, rent, pole tax, phone bill, travel expenses, clothes, cosmetic, food to include amenity bills. Take years to see your way
There is no point All this money they are saying about 38k, no company pays that much. Not worth you rather get certificates to get into field than degree no one cares about degree no companies all lies.
The debt didn't stop me from going into university. I didn't get my degree cuz I didn't finish my third year. I'm still saddled with £55,000 of debt. I can't get a job in my sector. It's too competitive and that's not because I don't have a degree. It's because I don't have a doctorate. It was a complete waste of 3 years of my life, and because I didn't finish the final year, I don't have anything to show for it. Collecting money from me for my university degree should be illegal, one I don't have it. It's too expensive and three I didn't have a choice. I dropped out because of medical reasons
I wish i could add my reaction to this. I'm gonna do it. Reaction video coming up.... Trisha was great in this.👏🏾 Great debate but there is so much more to this
with people being skeptical with university as an option it will put more demand on apprentiships which are already scarce, i would not see history, philosohy or politics being a apprenticeship but makes sense for it to be a university qualifcation. the woman said its inaccurate to call it a debt then proceeded to say a loan, i guess its not a loan then.
I did a bachelor and a master degree in uk, totally 60k in debt now. The funny part each month the student finance took out £350 from my salary and I have two colleagues working with me the same job and they have not been in university at all while they earn the same money as me. Sorry folks but having a degree from UK universities is a big joke now 🙃 and I don't advice kids going to university in uk unless top courses like medicine schools or things like that.
Uni Full-time and Degree means they both offer degrees but in different forms. So what's the argument here?. Many degree apprenticeship students seem more interested in the document they receive than the actual learning process. This could create a perverse incentive, leading the UK into a problematic situation. It's crucial to remember that degree apprenticeships are unsuitable for all disciplines. Moreover, healthy competition is a vital component of a competitive economy. Many people being misled would regret it in the next decade when technology shifts and their apprenticeship becomes worthless.Also, I would not pay an apprenticeship £ 50k-£70 starting, but I would pay a Cambridge graduate of Statistics and Mathematics with data science skills as a start in my Tech unit. If I told him to use certain techniques in econometrics to analyse specific data and explain the implications, I am damm sure he knows because it's the part of what they were taught. I don't know how an apprenticeship gets to do that, nor do I understand the basis.
House prices are more of an issue. Nobody would be complaining if they had a warm house, food and water. A bit of debt from uni? So what if you had a place to live you would manage. If you get rich after uni: debt doesnt matter If you dont get rich: you never have to pay it anyway So obviously it doesnt matter. Maybe you could argue you wouldve got rich if you didnt go to uni? But then that is your fault isnt it. I see no reason to be complaining, its a number that you dont even have to pay.
The argument that it's not real debt is perthitic, look if you want to be a Doctor, Lawyer or go into the hard sciences then you have to go to uni but outside of that it's just a business that helps generate debt and trap people, the idea that people go the uni for a business degree is crazy, just set up your own business and stop wasting time and money
Everyone makes our university debt holds people back and will massively impact their life. It doesn’t!! You don’t even notice it come out of your wages. It would be great if it was ‘free’ but then people who didn’t go to uni would be funding it through their taxes
Most degrees are taught using books that are over 20 years old, so the knowledge learnt is already outdated by 2 decades. What good is this for the future employer 🤷♂️
Unless you want to be a teacher, scientist, solicitor or doctor then don’t go to uni get a free apprenticeship or entry job and work your way up. Degrees aren’t worth it for other subjects you will always come second to those with experience
@@Rm345hhhyi45 my uni years were the best years of my life, though. I had to get away from home and I learned to socialise gain valuable life skills living with people my own age.
The amount of people I’ve heard who have finished with degrees but the jobs they’re applying for are asking for 1-3 years of work experience 🤣🤣🤣 whereas someone who did an apprenticeship could get that job possibly without a specific degree just because they’ve actually worked in that field for years! But the one has the debt & didn’t get in that career (but will have to pay that debt back as soon as they start working) and the other doesn’t have the debt but got the job regardless 🤣🤣🤣 so insane
9k a semester for someone to read off a PowerPoint presentation. Biggest scam ever. Huge regret
A year*
totally right , just a factory line these days
What's your degree?
I went at the age of 29 (life happened), I had fantastic A level grades and got into a decent uni, to get my first degree in September, I was shocked how little they explain at the so called “lectures”, just power points….I picked a business degree. For 9 THOUSAND A YEAR I’d expect a lot of help… I have just left yesterday after one month. Yes some careers require it (law, nhs jobs) it’s not about the money because you don’t pay it back before you earn 27,000k, it’s the time wasted and NOT getting a well paid job.
For my parent's generation it was probably worth it. But a lot of the university courses seem to lack depth now. People enter the workplace from uni and they know next to nothing compared the ones who have learned on the job.
University should be free, but far, far fewer people should be going, and there should be fewer universities offering fewer degrees. Blair's idea of getting the entire country to go to uni has made degrees worthless.
The actual target was 50% of young people going on. But I think your point stands.
Blairs problem is that he really believed that an educated population would be more productive. But the limit on worker productivity isn't academic attainment and never was. The block is management's ability and willingness to invest for the long term and create more productive jobs.
@mowogfpv7582 in other words educate the elite and train the plebs.
Certain courses should be free, some are. It should be geared towards what are gaps in the job market with a greater emphasis on training our own rather than relying on immigration to plug holes.
@@mowogfpv7582University gives young people something to do whilst the employers reduced their required workforce via technology or outsourced the roles to cheaper labour.
@@iainclark5964Exactly. I think a lot of the attacks by Tory politicians and the media on higher education are ideological. They don't want regular kids learning critical perspectives and they don't want regular kids learning how to be creative. In other words, they may get ideas above their station.
I graduated in the 80s. No fees and had a maintenance grant. So no debt. Looking back over my life, I can say it would not have been worth £70k of debt.
There's no one-size fits all. One problem is that apprenticeships are seen as second-class, whereas, as this guest explains they are a great alternative. That said, university is about so much more than academic learning as the other guest alluded to. What this country needs is an overhaul of the post-18 education system so that young people can take full advantage of the options that will allow them to have great careers, minimal debt and happy healthy futures.
What the country needs more than anything is a review of the cost since the conservatives trebled the price per year
Yes maybe seen as second class but in the nhs it’s the exact same unis and teachers providing the education. Also it’s NHS professionals teaching the students on the job. This is a better way of being skilled up instead of sat in a classroom.
@@99sillysausages I agree! And to be frank I can think of no profession whatsoever where, practical training isn't a bonus!
@@Mark_CTN Earlier the education minister said she was focused on closing the disadvantages. This is one such area that should be on her To-Do list!
Degree apprenticeship is best. Im sure you will agree as you get same exact degree and the experience without the debt. Yes some apprenticeships are seen as second class like plumbing or carpentry but there are many degree apprenticeships with top banking law firms which are well regarded.
Concerning the poll. If roughly 40% of people are earning a degree but only half of them are getting "graduate jobs", then only 20% of people are likely to see university debt as being worth it.
Hi there's also that student loans in many instances don't start being repayable until students reach certain income thresholds means the current system is appallingly bad use of taxpayers money.
Many students will never start to pay back their student loan and obviously then many more will never pay back the full amount owed. This shortfall the taxpayer pays for
@@tonytresigne5929 but thats how it ALWAYS used to be - when I did my degree in 1992 there were no student loans, there were no fees at all for the teaching costs (fully funded by the tax payer) and on top of that parents were means tested and if your parents were poor (mine were) you were given a grant (taxpayer funded) to pay for the maintenance side of it. So you cannot possibly argue that now its WORSE for the taxpayer - as it most certainly is not.
The money fully repaid by the people who do pay back their loans and the extortionate interest does offset a lot of what is 'written off'.
@@richardparker82 hi I think you've missed the intent of my post.
Because from a taxpayer perspective it used to be bad bad and now it's bad that still doesn't make it good does it?
A conversation I had with my daughter recently who was concerned about going to uni because of the idea of having student debt. I told her there's different types of debt and seen as an investment within herself and quite frankly if I'm earning approx 30 thousand a year and can't afford the equivalent of a broadband TV package I'm doing something very wrong. Fair play if you think different and obviously the cost of courses and the subjects offered not having earning potential are different issues but I do feel student loans are a good deal for students and a poor deal for the taxpayer
Debt is an absolute non issue... Getting employment is the key consideration!
@@tonytresigne5929 under the new plan I believe the stats suggest that close to 99% of the student loan money initally given out is recouped, and under plan 2 I think it was nearly 70%. (I think these are the figures I remember but could be wrong). And would that money be better served elsewhere maybe? but you do end up getting back most of the money. The larger issue is the lack of "high paying job" or jobs that require degrees that pay 20-22k (These were admin jobs which only really require gcse's but this was their requirements). Since you have an opinion, what would be your solution?
Try becoming a doctor, lawyer, dentist, engineer without a degree…it depends on the career. If the career doesn’t require a degree then it comes down to one’s ambition rather than need.
For instance, a degree is unnecessary for photography unless you want to work for the kinds of employers who will value a BA in Photography such as publishers, archives, academia, etc.
In my opinion, university degrees should come with some kind of "job guarantee" to justify the cost. So, if a student gets at least a 2:2, they're GUARANTEED a job. But that's not how it works. Going to university guarantees debt, but it doesn't guarantee a job. I'll use myself as an example. For instance, I went to university in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I feel proud to be a graduate, but didn't help me in getting a job at all. I tried every means possible to get even a part-time job since the age of 16, but I've had no luck at all. I've now come to accept that getting a job wasn't my destiny. The whole of my 20s have been a huge financial struggle, so at 30 I'm now working towards setting up my own tech start-up and hope God will open the doors for my success that way. I also wish success to everyone else in my shoes. Stay positive and never give up on yourself!
@@archangel0137 well most universities do have career networking opportunities but its whether or not you take advantage of it
@@archangel0137 But it guarantees knowledge that nobody can take from you and you can use it all your lifetime. And you have more options.
I’m not sure if there’s any right or wrong with this. My 20 year old son passed his A Levels but was adamant that he didn’t want to go to uni and wanted to take his chances in the workplace. We were disappointed to be honest but he’s proved himself right, has started a career in the Civil Service and saved every penny for his car.
Well done to your son. I graduated in IT in 2017 and joined the Civil Service in 2019 and I am still currently working for the CS. In hindsight I wish I had started working in CS instead of wasting 3 years at University. I wish to stress that I have never held a job related to my degree.
He is so rude! Interrupting that poor girl non-stop and grilling her for being in favor of universities..
I didn't go to university. I have two colleagues I work with who both have degrees and uni debt, doing the same job as me. I think that answers the question.
I see your point, if you're going to end up doing work that doesn't require a degree then going to uni might not be worth it. I went to university, but my education and degree didn't help me in getting a job, despite all my hardest efforts sic I was 16 years old. I'm now 30 and working to set up my own business and make a success of my life regardless. Sky's the limit!
No it doesn’t, that’s like saying don’t bother to get an education as you can get a job without one.
Im glad you are not a pollster - your sample side needs work...
See who gets promotion first and that's where having a degree can be a real difference. Uk Higher education supplies the world most mid - high level managers. You may be doing the same thing now. But for you to progress to higher level, you need to get education one way or another and built the network of peers of similar age or different age but same institution.
Does it? Is the SOLE worth of a degree the job you get at the end of it? Not all of the extracurriculars you can do, opportunities to study abroad, the people you meet, the independence and life experience it gives you?
I'm sure your colleagues look back on their time at university fondly and appreciate the experiences, opportunities, and memories it gave - does that not make it worth it?
the fact even all Unis charge 9k regardless of their ranking and reputations is beyond madness.
This is what happens when you fix the price at a point below what it costs to teach AND promise a sector that every student will be able to afford the degree using a government backed student loan.
Ask lawyers and other professional people, Not someone with a made up degree.
She is a professional student 😂
Agreed, accountants, engineers, doctors
Making things up is one life's most important skills🤪
Can this guy shut up and let the guest speak??
Perhaps you could sort him a role in the next Bond movie, that way we can get rid of him on this show?😂
As a wise man once said, they're just nightclubs that issue degrees. 90% of people at uni shouldn't be there.
The problem is apprenticeship scheme opportunities are still very limited especially the degree pathways. Some courses are not "lucrative" enough for apprenticeship admissions, so students are left with the option of taking up full time uni routes instead!!! Either way, staying focussed, planning and understanding what you want to do is the key!
I a none graduate cannot understand why a student/ graduate fails to realise that until they earn a higher wage than the threshold of having to pay back, they are not in debt. Does intelligence not apply to them?
But the threshold is only £25k, only £1,250 pa above minimum wage so it's not a case of earning a higher wage before you hit the threshold. You barely need to earn above minimum wage before you hit it.
The graduate in pink was excellent and so articulate.
So one guest is in £100k debt and convinced herself that it was an investment with two degrees that I have no idea what she studied and how she will make more money than the debt 🙈
If you are going to get someone to argue for university being worth the debt get someone working in law, finance, medicine, cybersecurity, engineering etc not a professional student 😅
Millions left short-changed by law
if they bought CRYPTO with 100k...oh man they would be millionares by now🤣🤣🤣😆😆
I just finished an integrated masters, now 60k in debt, but going into a job that pays 56k salary. Even on that I wont cover the interest on my loan with default payments (unless I get a bonus) so it's still pretty ridiculous at some points. I do agree she wasn't the best example. I believe apprenticeships are the way forward. And degrees have been over inflated and they mean less.
🤣🤣she is basically defending the unreasonably high prices that got her in 100K£ debt
£100k in debt and being charged 8% interest which she admits will never be paid off. But that debt has to be paid by someone. Oh yes, it's the tax payer. Also given that her current role is education support (I read that as a sales rep for universities), a role that I'm sure needs no degreee level education, yet her first degree was in religion and politics in society and her post grad was in education policy in society which I don't believe have any tangible link to the role she ended up in meaning the £100k debt she got herself in was completely pointless.
Maybe they could axe all these Mickey mouse degrees for a start.
100% correct
Exactly it doesn’t just get written off someone (the taxpayer) has to pay for it
What are you including in that?
@@lozzybozzy234Degrees in ridiculous subjects
I saw one called Creative Thinking… come on now
Education is way too expensive.
everything is way too expensive - thats why you need a graduate level job...
I’m jelous how Europe is only like 300 euros but nobody goes. I spoke with 3 Europeans and they All want to work fast food or something 😭😭🙄
The generation entering university over the last 13 years are being royally taken to the cleaners. It is not fair on this generation. People forget that before 1998 going to university used to be free and one also got a grant to boot. Bring back those days. Why should this generation get a raw deal?
Speaking as a bit of an outlier here. Went to university, got a 2.2 studying business, over 2 years to land my graduate job but since then excelled tremendously working in fintech, making Director at 28 and paid off my uni debt by at 29 (now 33 for context).
Whilst you'd think I'd be in favour, the opposite is true. Every skill related to my career was acquired post graduation. Knowing what i know now, there are other routes to achieve similar levels of success than to go to university. Imo, universities should be for specific careers in medicine, science, finance etc. Taking out a debt to have "experiences" does not make any sense to me.
So what did you do for the two years no job?
In my opinion, university degrees should come with some kind of "job guarantee" to justify the cost. So, if a student gets at least a 2:2, they're GUARANTEED a job. But that's not how it works. Going to university guarantees debt, but it doesn't guarantee a job. I'll use myself as an example. For instance, I went to university in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I feel proud to be a graduate, but didn't help me in getting a job at all. I tried every means possible to get even a part-time job since the age of 16, but I've had no luck at all. I've now come to accept that getting a job wasn't my destiny. The whole of my 20s have been a huge financial struggle, so at 30 I'm now working towards setting up my own tech start-up and hope God will open the doors for my success that way. I also wish success to everyone else in my shoes. Stay positive and never give up on yourself!
@arunodg5536 retail jobs typically and car sales. Arguably car sales helped a lot as I got comfortable speaking to all types of people
Advising people to go to university as the debt gets written off is very misleading.
Apprenticeships are valuable and have their place; however, this country also needs scientists to push the boundaries of science, research, and development. This is what maintains our global scientific and economic position.
Hi apprenticeships that teach valuable skills 100%. Unfortunately when the likes of companies like Morr!sons being paid by the taxpayer to teach people how to stock shelves being a huge provider of apprenticeships they're exploiting the system and taking advantage of an opportunity to get cheap employees of little benefit to the trainee
Scientists (who also double up as lectures a lot of the time in this country) are severely overworked, underpaid, grants have been increasingly difficult to get due to Brexit (most used to come from the EU but we are not preferred anymore), and so government funded projects and projects with large pharmaceuticals have been the main way to go these days. There is no way with that, scientists will be able to continue to compete with others around the world. Also research scientist as a career route is really not great.
This is talking from personal experience, as well as feedback from family, friends, and lecturers whom I've interacted with in the past 10 years.
I agree it should be apprenticeship + study at the same time. Directly being able to link what you're learning to what you're doing for work is very gratifying for a lot of people. You can do this for STEM subjects as well. Apprenticeships should be available for all industries.
@@tonytresigne5929 That's now how the apprenticeship levy works, Tony, the taxpayer is not paying for shelf stackers.
yall need to give university more praise.. its not all about money. Its about growing socially & spiritually.. people look at things too black & white
Exactly
Just don’t do either and chill out on a beach
i like your thinking
I got a BA and MA amd heavily regret it. I heavily advise that unless you want to be something like a doctor, lawyer, or engineer then don't bother with university. Go straight into an entry level role or internship in your industry.
University is bs. Degree apprenticeship is the way foward. Its very difficult to get a job after uni graduation People go university to study useless degrees and get no where.
Degree apprenticeships r very competitive only disadvantage you will be working and studying at the same and u wont get a lot of free time. Whereas you will get a lot of free time in uni.
The times we are in are financially very difficult. The debt is crazy and not worth. Having the skills and learning new skills is far more beneficial.
University graduates are far less likely to be unemployed, far more likely to be working in skilled labor, and earn on average 9k more than non-graduates. The stats say that a degree in the UK is well worth it.
The lifetime premium for a degree in the UK - that is how much more you earn after taxes and student loan repayments - is £100k for women and £130k for men compared to non-graduates. Ask anyone if over their lifetime they'd like to earn 100k more and see how they feel?
Depends what you study. I did nursing for the NHS which guarantees me a life of poverty and retirement at 71. £1800 per month after tax etc.
Waste of money, I self funded myself to do finance and now I’m on £48k. £2.7k per month after tax etc and retirement at 57 should I choose to. So don’t do a Mickey Mouse degree that guarantees you poverty. Nursing, occupational therapy, physio therapy, speech and language therapy or operation department practitioner. Do a degree that will get you a high salary job
Yep, I done this to do a CS degree and hope to get out of this ridden country.
The issue is not the debt. It is much worse. In those 10-15 years after graduation when you are trying to get a house and start a family, there is essentially a crushing 9% tax on all earnings above the minimum wage.
Only go university if you actually need a degree for the career you want (e.g. medicine, law, engineering etc.) or you're wasting your time and money doing a degree just because "it's interesting".
Unless of course you're rich and can afford to go study an arts subject, have someone to sponsor you or you're okay with possibly being not well off for the rest of your life struggling to pay bills.
Best route imo is if you go down the degree apprenticeship route if possible for your career choice(engineering companies do this), you get industry experience and a degree paid for by the company you're working for, just takes twice as much time (think they last around 6 years) but you come out of it with no debt and lots of industry experience. The lady in light pink is very correct.
Going into a trade is a good option too, can be physically demanding though but if you're up for it might as well, they can make good money.
2 tier education experience 1 rule for rich 1 rule for the rest of us
As someone who done a MSc in Chemistry, and now is doing a PhD in Chemistry, 100% agree, there is way too much pressure on people to go to university, when in fact for the majority it is a poor decision, universities should be pressured to reduce the number of students they are allowed to accept for a course (only accepting those actually qualified), as well as reduce the capacity of some of their courses, it should be a sector for education, not a business.
For example, for those doing biology/chemistry/computer science/law/business there is a HUGE demand for those roles in the job market, by contrast, degrees such as sociology, psychology, sports & exercise science etc etc or even more so over specified degrees, like those said by the girl here, have a much lower demand, and in those cases, unless you are very active and dedicated to a career in those areas, doing a lot of additional volunteering work along side your degree, the likelihood of you getting a career in those areas, without building a business yourself, is VERY low, and benefiting from a degree economically is unlikely.
In my opinion, university degrees should come with some kind of "job guarantee" to justify the cost. So, if a student gets at least a 2:2, they're GUARANTEED a job. But that's not how it works. Going to university guarantees debt, but it doesn't guarantee a job. I'll use myself as an example. For instance, I went to university in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I feel proud to be a graduate, but didn't help me in getting a job at all. I tried every means possible to get even a part-time job since the age of 16, but I've had no luck at all. I've now come to accept that getting a job wasn't my destiny. The whole of my 20s have been a huge financial struggle, so at 30 I'm now working towards setting up my own tech start-up and hope God will open the doors for my success that way. I also wish success to everyone else in my shoes. Stay positive and never give up on yourself!
It is not a debt. It doesn't affect your credit score/history. You barely pay anything back. If you do pay back, you don't see it come out of your account.
In my opinion, university degrees should come with some kind of "job guarantee" to justify the cost. So, if a student gets at least a 2:2, they're GUARANTEED a job. But that's not how it works. Going to university guarantees debt, but it doesn't guarantee a job. I'll use myself as an example. For instance, I went to university in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I feel proud to be a graduate, but didn't help me in getting a job at all. I tried every means possible to get even a part-time job since the age of 16, but I've had no luck at all. I've now come to accept that getting a job wasn't my destiny. The whole of my 20s have been a huge financial struggle, so at 30 I'm now working towards setting up my own tech start-up and hope God will open the doors for my success that way. I also wish success to everyone else in my shoes. Stay positive and never give up on yourself!
I'm in the US, and here in the US, your student loan payment is based on how much you borrow meaning it is actually a loan you have to pay. In the UK, your student loan payment is tied to your income which does essentially make it simply an extra tax you have to pay as opposed to a loan as the one lady said. The US does have income based repayment plans for student loan borrowers, but you have to apply for them as they are not automatic. In the UK, it's automatic. I have done research into how student loan systems in other countries actually work, and it is an interesting thing to research. Overall, I think their system is still better than our system here in the US, but it still has it's flaws.
After watching this I calculated I would need a Salary of at least £75000 per year depending on future interest rates to pay of my £69000 student loan balence. This is just for a standard 3 Year Undergraduate Degree within the remaining 25 years i have left. How realistic is it that most graduates are going to achieve these kind of salaries.
Both of these contributors are right - HOWEVER everyone would want to get into a degree apprenticeship if they could but you cant because they are almost impossible to get into! My son went to try and get on one in a bank in London and its basically the same pain and struggle as watching the Apprentice on TV - its so competitive - 100's of people all trying to get one or two roles going through rounds and rounds of nerve-wracking stress. Should be noted they also wanted very good A-Level results also... So lets be realistic today - the vast majority (always exceptions, especially if you have a 'network' ) still would need a degree to get the HIGH paid jobs simply due to competitiveness and barriers to entry. There is no point anyone talking about "in my day it was blah blah" because the population was considerably less then and also far less competition from abroad, not to mention the cost of living compared to average wage was far less back then.
I agree with the woman's view that getting student debt is an INVESTMENT (just like starting a business is) but in student loan case you only have to pay it back if you are successful (and even then its like a tax - you only have to pay a % a month, not the lump sum if you suddenly become successful).
Where it breaks down is when the actual maintenance costs aren't even covered by student loan allowances so even then you have to get a part time job on top. I really dont see a fairer way of doing it other than this "if you dont earn enough then you dont have to pay it back" considering the UK finances and population of today.
The point of Uni being a half way house for kids to experiment and turn into adults under more controlled and safer conditions should also not be underestimated - its not all about money.
i agree with this! very good
Spot on! Degree apprenticeship are almost impossible to find for the average student. You also have more fun at uni.
I’m hearing employers and abroad opportunities prefer experience over a grade on a paper. So something to keep in mind
Absolutely not worth it. When I was applying for a graduate job several years ago, I remember Indeed used to show you how many people also to applied for the same job.
In my case it was over 400 people applying for the same listing that had no more than 3 vacancies if i remember correctly. I couldn't imagine how much worse it is now.
The value of a degree is lower than it has ever been. Even with a degree, the odds are massively stacked against you.
Free education for British people. Same with healthcare. Everyone else pays. Let’s fix our economy. It may not be the nice thing to do. But it’s the right thing to do
Get a degree and ignore all other options. My apprenticeship and manual skills mean nothing to companies! They just want a degree no matter what it's in.
Dum dum
@@DeLosReyess Neg. OP is actually right.
Ironically I found the opposite when looking for work recently.
It should be a half way in between where you can get a certification but also learn practical skills at the same time. There's no way I would have got any of my jobs on a degree alone. I only get them because I had work experience, which they quoted to me when getting offered the job.
The problem really is that apprenticeships and job experience are not recognised in the academic points system. They should count as a degree equivalent then UCAS points could be applied to them. In my experience as an employer I would take an apprentice over one of these underwater basket weavers any day.
In my opinion, university degrees should come with some kind of "job guarantee" to justify the cost. So, if a student gets at least a 2:2, they're GUARANTEED a job. But that's not how it works. Going to university guarantees debt, but it doesn't guarantee a job. I'll use myself as an example. For instance, I went to university in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I feel proud to be a graduate, but didn't help me in getting a job at all. I tried every means possible to get even a part-time job since the age of 16, but I've had no luck at all. I've now come to accept that getting a job wasn't my destiny. The whole of my 20s have been a huge financial struggle, so at 30 I'm now working towards setting up my own tech start-up and hope God will open the doors for my success that way. I also wish success to everyone else in my shoes. Stay positive and never give up on yourself!
We have reached a time when so much education can be learned for free on the internet. There are so many how to resources.
Its not worth the debt, but you have no choice because of jobs barrier to entery. So people stop wasting time talking about it, the government new exactly what they were doing, only the rich will end up benefiting from this. Also is that girl talking about saying you dont need to pay it back, yes you do and later on in life the numbers start adding up.
Got two music degrees. Took out $80K USD in school loans and my total payments after interest paid was $108K. The first few years after graduation, I worked two jobs and spent well within my means. Rented an extremely small studio (less than 500 sq feet) for less than $800 USD per month.
Best money I ever spent. Have my dream job and paid off my debt in just under 10 years. Own my own home as well. The debt is well worth it if you achieve your goals and focus on attaining happiness as your life's purpose.
Glad it worked out for you in the end bud but you applied over a decade ago. Music degrees and any other degree in the Creative Arts are the worse degrees you could pick today with the emergence of A.I.
It's definitely not worth the effort of breaking your back working 2 jobs and living in a tiny misreable studio apartment and eating cheapo food. Today you'd be better off learn a trade.
I have a friend with no formal qualifications but he got a guitar when he was 5 and he practiced on it for 3-15 hours a day up to the age of 19. He always does well playing and is one of the richest people in the town.
Universities and loans are businesses. The more 'customers' the system can generate, the better the business. Ever wondered why most years pass rates increase?
Just look on indeed, every single job description have requirement:1-2years of experience. I am telling you, I have MA degree and it doesn't help me much.
Well it is an MA!
Uni set up for middle class and above,jobs already waiting for them at daddy’s company.most working class kids end up in debt for years and can never get the job they studied for.all to keep you under that poor threshold 👍🏼
Leave school or college and get straight into work .
Scotland is free for everyone if you are born a resident Scot.
Are they not scrapping it.
Paid by high council tax +
Don't forget that threshold for repayment does NOT increase with inflation. It is set by your student loan plan. So after a decade or two you may end up making repayments even if you are in a low paying job.
I think is too expensive for such loans however university degree is still the best .
I notice that the people with degrees (on average) in my industry (tech) begin to outdo their non uni educated colleagues over time. None of my degrees were in my field, but they did give me the skills to train myself in new skills to a high standard.
Overall though, there are many more factors than just education that will determine your individual success.
For me, the whole point of getting a degree is so that you can get a good job at the end of it. The guest who was pro university said you dont have to pay the loan back. That's fine if you want to work in an average pay job until the loan has expired. If you want to earn a decent salary, you will have to repay the loan which will then have repercussions if you want to get a mortgage or any other loans. I dropped out of university as I wasn't enjoying the course so my highest qualifications are A Levels & NVQ level 3. Now at the age of 48, my salary is between 45-50K plus good benefits and I work from home or am visiting sites. I got where I am from building my experience in my early jobs which lead to natural career progression. I could take a job in London earning way more, but choose not to commute every day.
The fact that we are living in a crisis and this girl thinks sadly 25k is a good salary as someone who is earning that. Yeah maybe 10/20 years ago when I started working but I'm earning that as a small business owner and trust me it doesn't go far.
Started open uni a few years ago part time to be able to help folks with their mental health so I know very well my earnings with that will be limited but I would also have to earn little to have it paid, then do uni and also get experience in the role for free to hope that a job comes out it is just insane.
Student loans are NOT taken into consideration by credit agencies due to the very nature of how you have to pay them back. It will not impact your mortgage application unless you are over stretching yourself.
@richardparker82 yeah but if you are already earning that threshold you will be expected to pay before you start the course. So being a mature student it's not that easy but then what do you do otherwise? As a cleaner/carer I have nowhere else to go into to help get something to show I am more than what I do and when you have health issues and just want to future proof yourself its enough to cause a breakdown. Yet the same course is given away for free to anyone that is on benefits or prison which is why I feel so short-changed. Spent my whole entire life living and working by the rules and now I want to make a difference I have to magic this money up in the off chance I could get work that pays the same if not more.
Sorry just upset I've worked so hard to have it be stopped because of a figure I can't help without making myself poorer for next few years.
What people are not realising is that when you apply for a student’s loan, yes you don’t have to pay it back until one’s earning is above a certain threshold yet what they fail to tell you is this…. Interest starts that day you take out that loan and calculates each and every month adding to the fee payable. So let’s say you are out of work for 2 or 3 years, interest is still being added to your student account.
I found this out when I received my statement. The government has been finessing us all with these bogus degrees.
I think education should be free for all ages. But i do think university can be a waste of time for most people my cousin went to university and he is a delivery driver.
Depends on the degree. Science degrees typically pay off in the end.
Some of the other degrees? Not so much
Each time you create a credit, you simultaneously create a debt, cancelling each other out.
In absolute terms, money doesn't exist.
my sister got a grant of £5500 a year to go to uni because she was married with 2 kids this was in the late 70s early 80s
Well, many jobs require at least a bachelor, many senior roles require a masters, and almost every academic and research career path require a doctorate. Yes, university is not mandatory, but it opens doors.
I think that degrees have become the new A level and its now so prohibitively expensive that it excludes kids from regular backgrounds. Its sad because there are probably many kids who would excel.
it's not worth it. alot of people that didn't go to uni, make more money versus the folks that went to it
I went at the age of 29 (life happened), I had fantastic A level grades and got into a decent uni, to get my first degree in September, I was shocked how little they explain at the so called “lectures”, just power points….I picked a business degree. For 9 THOUSAND A YEAR I’d expect a lot of help… I have just left yesterday after one month. Yes some careers require it (law, nhs jobs) it’s not about the money because you don’t pay it back before you earn 27,000k, it’s the time wasted and NOT getting a well paid job.
There needs to more available for people that are not academic, children in schools need space and support with whatever their talents are.
No, the cost is ridiculous. Especially if you're studying remotely.
If you are reading this after you have your A-Level results I would say go for an apprenticeship, prefereably a degree apprenticeship. I went and did maths at University and my brother did a degree apprenticeship I struggeled to get a job and now im in a job on around 24k and my brother has now 4 years of experience in his field with a degree and went on a year travelling experience on a 30-40k salary. Right now you only need a degree if you are doing something like medicine a career that needs a degree. Most companies I have found when looking value experience over a degree. So if you are worried about university or unsure defer your offer take a gap year and work for a bit or travel and work abroad, if you can, after your gap year you can always go back to start your degree the following year. Don't do it to please someone else, do it for you and think about it.
There are no bad choices here. A university degree is more flexible and transferable however. You might struggle to get a job abroad, especially in a different field, with only an apprenticeship.
No, absolutely not. I would not have gone to university had I have had to come out with a 70k debt charging 8% interest PA. And recent recommendations are that to survive, universities will have to UP tuition fees. Treating our young this way is insane, and absolutely criminal.
My advice to today's kids. Don't bother unless you are doing a STEM subject or 100% know what career you want AND the degree will help you get there. Otherwise it isn't worth the cost and you should consider starting work now, getting a degree abroad, doing an apprenticeship, or learning a trade (you can change careers after 10 years, but a trade skill is with you for life and a good back up source of income).
If they work in the UK paying into the tax system, forgive the debt after ten years. Lumping young people with huge debts has costs to the country, they will not be as brave taking risks, it makes the country less dynamic.
More flexibility is needed. There should not be so much pressure to send everyone into university. There should be many apprenticeships for school leavers and higher level degree apprenticeships as well. Plus lots of other forms of training and studying part-time to aquire important skills and knowledge. Post 16 education needs an overhaul with a lot more options for teenagers and young people.
No, unless it's STEM, even then, it may not be necessary.
Although having worked in it for decades, I can tell you the tech industry is a smoking ruin right now, and I've never know so many experienced workers to be "Open to work" on LinkedIn. It's also changed a lot, and a horrible industry to be in compared to how it used to be. My advice is to avoid. There are MUCH better options these days...
Having gone to university after A-levels, and a work based uni apprenticeship later in life, I can say university is not worth it. I went to uni when we got a grant too. Working in the field & learning is a much richer experience. Like this black female (Also being a black female) I feel I was institutionalised & believed this was the only option. It’s not, and best investment in yourself is the one that doesn’t clip your wings & makes you happy.
Not for UK legally resident students unless taking medicine and law.
UK people are denied places on courses due to COST of housing, accommodation, energy bills.
Then add to this the courses and places closed to them by the mega paid University executives who impose quotas for foreign students who want to study what? Lucrative LAW AND MEDICINE in the UK as it is the highest world qualification in those subjects.
Who now owns the UK NHS and Legal system!?
If 80% of the GMB audience said university is not worth it, I suspect the majority of the GMB audience didn't go to university.
I tried to listen but Holly Hobbs is so beautiful
Imagine wasting years of your life going to uni for a degree in something completely useless like "Marketing" and then been in debt for the rest of your time as a young adult...
Being educated clearly doesn`t mean that you are in any way smart...
In my opinion, university degrees should come with some kind of "job guarantee" to justify the cost. So, if a student gets at least a 2:2, they're GUARANTEED a job. But that's not how it works. Going to university guarantees debt, but it doesn't guarantee a job. I'll use myself as an example. For instance, I went to university in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I feel proud to be a graduate, but didn't help me in getting a job at all. I tried every means possible to get even a part-time job since the age of 16, but I've had no luck at all. I've now come to accept that getting a job wasn't my destiny. The whole of my 20s have been a huge financial struggle, so at 30 I'm now working towards setting up my own tech start-up and hope God will open the doors for my success that way. I also wish success to everyone else in my shoes. Stay positive and never give up on yourself!
It's worth it if the degree opens up job opportunities you wouldn't get without it and these opportunities pay at least 9% (approx) more.
I think you should do what is right for you. Both options have merit and fluidity. However, you can change subjects after your first year if you want to do a different course ❤
I've always loved Richard Madley as a presenter and I also think Trisha is excellent too. Very interesting subjects, both young ladies were very professional and intelligent, and have so much wisdom. How to have an interesting debate without the punch and judy shouting match that's on so many news channels these day 😊
University is both a waste of time and money for most courses unless you want to do a job that needs a degree such as doctor or nurse etc. Many schools advise most of their students to do degrees because it looks good for them to have X number of pupils going on to do undergraduate degrees but I think that most of the teachers who are advising the students don’t actually care about what’s best for the students.
It really all depends on what subject you choose, and why you're doing it. If you think a degree (any degree) is still a passport to a good job, sadly those days are long gone...
Not at the moment because of the interest on the loan. I have a 40k loan to repay which is fine, I took the loan out so I have to repay it. But I’m paying between 300 to 400 pounds a month and the loan amount is still going up annually as that’s not enough to cover the interest
No I don't think so when you think of how much you have to pay back in interest to the lender. There is no guarantee you will get a job that can pay back the loan. A car, rent, pole tax, phone bill, travel expenses, clothes, cosmetic, food to include amenity bills. Take years to see your way
Well done 👏👏
There are not enough decent apprenticeships for everyone either. Blessed either way, most of us fall through the gaps.
There is no point All this money they are saying about 38k, no company pays that much. Not worth you rather get certificates to get into field than degree no one cares about degree no companies all lies.
The debt didn't stop me from going into university. I didn't get my degree cuz I didn't finish my third year. I'm still saddled with £55,000 of debt. I can't get a job in my sector. It's too competitive and that's not because I don't have a degree. It's because I don't have a doctorate. It was a complete waste of 3 years of my life, and because I didn't finish the final year, I don't have anything to show for it. Collecting money from me for my university degree should be illegal, one I don't have it. It's too expensive and three I didn't have a choice. I dropped out because of medical reasons
Sorry just need to clarify but in scotland its free proving you earn under 25k and not a penny more as i have recently found out.
I wish i could add my reaction to this. I'm gonna do it. Reaction video coming up....
Trisha was great in this.👏🏾
Great debate but there is so much more to this
with people being skeptical with university as an option it will put more demand on apprentiships which are already scarce, i would not see history, philosohy or politics being a apprenticeship but makes sense for it to be a university qualifcation.
the woman said its inaccurate to call it a debt then proceeded to say a loan, i guess its not a loan then.
I did a bachelor and a master degree in uk, totally 60k in debt now. The funny part each month the student finance took out £350 from my salary and I have two colleagues working with me the same job and they have not been in university at all while they earn the same money as me. Sorry folks but having a degree from UK universities is a big joke now 🙃 and I don't advice kids going to university in uk unless top courses like medicine schools or things like that.
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Makes you wonder what the average salary was for practical apprenticeship courses (electricians,plumbers etc) vs university graduates.
Uni Full-time and Degree means they both offer degrees but in different forms. So what's the argument here?.
Many degree apprenticeship students seem more interested in the document they receive than the actual learning process. This could create a perverse incentive, leading the UK into a problematic situation. It's crucial to remember that degree apprenticeships are unsuitable for all disciplines. Moreover, healthy competition is a vital component of a competitive economy.
Many people being misled would regret it in the next decade when technology shifts and their apprenticeship becomes worthless.Also, I would not pay an apprenticeship £ 50k-£70 starting, but I would pay a Cambridge graduate of Statistics and Mathematics with data science skills as a start in my Tech unit. If I told him to use certain techniques in econometrics to analyse specific data and explain the implications, I am damm sure he knows because it's the part of what they were taught. I don't know how an apprenticeship gets to do that, nor do I understand the basis.
House prices are more of an issue.
Nobody would be complaining if they had a warm house, food and water. A bit of debt from uni? So what if you had a place to live you would manage.
If you get rich after uni: debt doesnt matter
If you dont get rich: you never have to pay it anyway
So obviously it doesnt matter.
Maybe you could argue you wouldve got rich if you didnt go to uni? But then that is your fault isnt it. I see no reason to be complaining, its a number that you dont even have to pay.
How is it that Scotland pay no undergrad fees? That’s madness
The Scottish government pay it through taxes
The argument that it's not real debt is perthitic, look if you want to be a Doctor, Lawyer or go into the hard sciences then you have to go to uni but outside of that it's just a business that helps generate debt and trap people, the idea that people go the uni for a business degree is crazy, just set up your own business and stop wasting time and money
Everyone makes our university debt holds people back and will massively impact their life. It doesn’t!! You don’t even notice it come out of your wages. It would be great if it was ‘free’ but then people who didn’t go to uni would be funding it through their taxes
Most degrees are taught using books that are over 20 years old, so the knowledge learnt is already outdated by 2 decades. What good is this for the future employer 🤷♂️
History Teacher ? ;-)
Unless you want to be a medical specialist or a surgeon - it is not.
Unless you want to be a teacher, scientist, solicitor or doctor then don’t go to uni get a free apprenticeship or entry job and work your way up. Degrees aren’t worth it for other subjects you will always come second to those with experience
@@Rm345hhhyi45 my uni years were the best years of my life, though. I had to get away from home and I learned to socialise gain valuable life skills living with people my own age.
The amount of people I’ve heard who have finished with degrees but the jobs they’re applying for are asking for 1-3 years of work experience 🤣🤣🤣 whereas someone who did an apprenticeship could get that job possibly without a specific degree just because they’ve actually worked in that field for years! But the one has the debt & didn’t get in that career (but will have to pay that debt back as soon as they start working) and the other doesn’t have the debt but got the job regardless 🤣🤣🤣 so insane
Uni is fantastic depending on what course u do! I would never ever have the salary i get without uni!!