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Is the upside down supposed to be hell? Forgive me I've never actually watched the show I don't have whatever Plus channel it's on but I've been watching the highlights. Anyway what was the point of all this for the Russians and the Americans to spy on each other? What is the gain of dealing with this dimension?
IMO the mindflayer was much more terrifieng. A creature jumping from dimension to dimension, detroying planets… Something humans can’t compete with. I hope Vecna is just a puppet…
I wouldn’t say saved everyone. Bought more time yea. But he’s still alive. They should have lopped off his head. But then there wouldn’t be a season 5.
Talking about Will, while I think yes, Will will be fundamental in tracking down Vecna, he might also play a even bigger role. I just can’t help thinking that he’s very similar to how Henry was, actually, Joyce described him as a „sensitive kid“ that likes to draw. Looking at season 4, Henry was described just the same. This definitely is a connection that seems intended, and the theory that Vecna was the one who kidnapped Will in the first season also seems to make much more sense, with all we’ve seen, it even makes more sense than it being the demogorgon. If that actually pinpoints anything important, I don’t know, but it could MAYBE mean that Will could have similar powers to Vecnas.. and that they just haven’t been forced to awaken yet. Maybe that’s the reason he was the first target, the reason he wasn’t killed in the upside down, the reason he was chosen as the mindflayers vessel. Or - and I sadly consider this as more likely than the actually interesting theory - it could simply mean that Will is the perfect vessel for Vecna since he’s so much like he used to be when he was younger. Meaning that’s why the mindflayer wanted to kill everybody BUT him, as Will said in season 2.
I think the Mind Flyers personally choose Will, not Vecna he is just following orders like Dustin said he is the general. Mind Flyers himself choose Will since he is a kid with abilities maybe turn illusion into reality or reality warping? idk. Remember that Vecna accidentally goes to UD but Will kinda like invited. That's why the story started with *Vanishing of Will* since it will be ended with him especially UD is modeled after DnD games.
@@MrGergasikuat I think you make a lot of sense here. I will add few points here. Vecna is strong and everything. But we need to remember that Henry aka 001 became Vecna only because he gained his powers from Mindflayer (Dark Shadow in UD). So, Mindflayer has been using Vecna as a vessel to carry out his ultimate plan; Taking over the entire world. Now when the duffer Bros threw us a little off the track when Vecna told El that it was him all along. But let us not underestimate Mindflayer. Henry is Vecna only because of Mindflayer. Henry thinks he knows how to use the darkness to his advantage, but he forgets one thing; he didn't create upside down, he was just sent there by El. And the twist will be; Henry realising that he was used all along. Given Mind Flayers and Will's connection, i gotta say there will be a lot of Focus on Will. Also, I don't know why no one talked about the fact that; when Max is about to end up in Vecna's mind in the first instance (Kreel House) they show a Tombstone, which says '_ _yers" some letters missing; I presume it says Beyers or Bayers. Might be it is Will Bayers/ Beyers.
Eddie could come back as Vecna's servant. Since Eddie plays a lot of DND, there is a character in DND that mirrors with Eddies character, his name is Kas. Kas is described as a powerful warrior. He died to fighting the bats, just Iike Eddie, and Vecna resurrected him as his lieutenant, Kas later betrayed Vecna and defeated him. Even though Kas is still in his Vampire form, is humanity is still inside of him.
i saw somebodys comment on another video saying something about how eddie could possibly come back from effects from the demobats since anybody bit from something from the upside down some other thing has happened so the theory was basicly the demobats effects him to bring eddie back and will make eddie on vecnas side
I love the idea of Lucas getting some time to shine in season 5 a bit. After what happened to Max I’m sure he feels a lot guilt for not only her death but also opening the last gate unintentionally. Seeing a storyline where we can see him navigate through that would be amazing to see.
Max is in a coma but she’s not dead yet. Vecna/001 technically “killed” Max. Lucas mentions that her heart stopped for one minute and that’s how the portal opened and why the clock chimed four times. But Eleven somehow saves her. At the hospital Eleven goes into Max’s mind but can’t find her. It’s just empty. In the massacre scene 001 told eleven that the kids are not dead but still in his head. Papa also mentions how 001 consumes the people he kills. My theory is that Max’s consciousness/soul is in his head and if he’s defeated all the captured souls escapes. Since Max’s body is still intact her soul has a place to come back too, while the others can’t be saved because their bodies are completely destroyed.
@@briarose1234 If you go to his to his last stranger things videos from 1 and 4 days ago i wrote the exact same comment one of them has over 600 likes.
it's a good theory, but I think maybe Max might not come back-maybe. I say that because when she's trying to taunt Vecna to make him attack... she tells him to make her disappear and basically... that's what happens. her body is alive in a sense (I say this as she is breathing but isn't on life support) but she isn't "there"... and when Eleven looks for her in the void she's not there either despite El being able to locate anyone, anywhere with just a picture or image...
Season 5 prediction: Just as the villain has our heroes on the ropes, ultimate victory within reach, a heavy fog rolls in. A silhouette slowly approaches as power chords begin to amp up. Could it be? Has he really returned? "Science is neat," Mr. Clarke says as he steps into full view, cracking his knuckles, "but I'm afraid it's not very forgiving."
The Duffers have said Will will be the central focus of season 5 and its going to basically go full circle to season 1. So i m thinking Vecna will go after Will to be his vessel ( and maybe be successful for a tiny bit) and will use Will’s past traumas and his feelings for Mike against him. Remember Mike basically told El that his life started on the day will went missing and will was right there to hear it. I ALSO don’t think they actually forgot his birthday and its part of the plot for season 5 . The whole Mike is the ‘heart’ thing could come in play with Mike being the one to save Will. I agree i think he will use Max and possibly Eddie’s body as puppets.
That would be an awesome ending. If Mike saves Will, that would be beautiful. But somehow my little sad heart doubts it. I think Will is more likely going to die sacrificing himself to save all of his friends.
@@wonderwall62 if you re-watch the confession scene you see will briefly at that part and he looks like a kicked puppy. So i think he will take it as Mike basically saying his started when Will missing even if it was like a few hours/day later.,
I really hope they won't be bringing dead characters back by releasing their souls or using time travel to undo the events of the show. That would really just ruin the darkness and tragicness that's a part of what makes the show so great. Though I would be fine (happy) with bringing back Max, because her body is still alive, so it wouldn't be too ridiculous
I don't think they will. I think Max's body was specifically saved by El so she could go back to it. We may see some consciousnesses freed (like Chrissy and the lab kids) but I don't think the Duffers will give us a fairy tale ending with all our favourites coming back.
@Lamae Beolfag I’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree. Though I would like an ending that’s bitter in the way that some of the main characters are dead, but sweet in the way that some of them are alive, and the world is saved
Yeah those other 3 I don’t see coming back. Vecna literally crumpled their bodies. Souls don’t have a body to return to. If anything I could see like a final goodbye where the 3 souls along with the kids who he took long ago maybe group together and thank her for freeing them before they officially pass over into the next realm
I didn't believe the "Vecna is Eleven's father" theory until I heard someone explain the timeline. Henry was born around 1947, and Teri was born 1951. Teri took part in the MK Ultra project in 1969, when she was 18, and at some point around 1970 she became unknowingly pregnant. The MK Ultra project was experimenting with mind control, and with one of the experiments, Teri could have unknowingly become a surrogate in Brenner's attempts to recreate Henry's powers. If this is the case, then it would explain how Eleven is much more powerful than the other numbers, because she directly shares DNA with Henry. Dr. Brenner is trying to enhance Eleven's powers since he sees greatness in her, so why would he punish 001 so harshly for helping with this, if Brenner wasn't scared that 001 could have secretly revealed something else to her.
There’s a chance Papa was experimenting match-making:) Or.. May be the reason why Vecna got the chip in his neck is because he raped 11’s mom who’s a staff member. That’s why she was mumbling the rainbow room stuff when she was in psychosis. That’s why she was able to go into the lab before she got dragged out “Papa can’t control you or me”. That’s why Henry picked 11 as favorite and planned to escape with her..
Henry himself said that Dr. Brenner couldn't control him, that's why he tried to recreate him. My first thought was that all the kids in the lab are siblings. I also agree on the timeline. He could be Eleven's father.
Yeah, I'm thinking Eddie was such a break out character we will see him again in Season 5...perhaps as some kind of psychic warrior :P Eddie's uncle will likely join the cause....maybe this is where Eddie comes back? A bit weird Steve's bat bite injuries never had consequences... Seemed like significant injury although I guess we can learn the repercussions in Season 5
@@aarontempleton8047 agreed 100%... it's only about 4 bats (did anyone else notice the bats kinda look like spiders?) that attack Steve... hundreds swarm Eddie and quite a few use their tails to both choke him and hold him down while more than a couple start to feed on him... he got it a lot worse than Steve...
I think that Eleven's healing powers are actually time travel based. When Max dies, we cut to an overhead shot of her spinning in a clockwise direction while the ticking of the clock plays in the background, yet when Eleven revives her we get an almost exact reverse of that shot which spins in an anticlockwise direction, so perhaps she managed to reverse some of the damage so that she wasn't as badly hurt, but could only isolate it in Max rather than reverse all the other events around them. This also ties back to her line about emotions making us all time travellers, and that way El can LITERALLY use positive emotions to turn back time
I kind of hope they stay away from time traveling because it’s such a tricky plot device that can get messy real fast. I’m curious if they’ll explore the idea of pocket dimensions. I would love if we found out that the part of the upside down we see in Hawkins is a pocket dimension that was created the moment Will was taken. Perhaps that’s why time doesn’t exist there. It’s also kind of terrifying to think that all that horror is just a sliver of what the upside down truly is.
Maybe Henry’s mother had powers. She did know it was him causing the hallucinations and even had music on when Henry attacked and stopped the needle on the vinyl. She could have been playing it to stop him from attacking. Maybe she had powers and was also subject to Brenner experiments. Victor tells us what his dad did but he never tells us what his mom did
I thought he said he killed her because she wanted to send him away to a hospital because she some how knew he was the one responsible for the horrible stuff happening
I like this theory. Upon rewatching the last part of episode 7, Henry's mother absolutely could have been the one to turn ON the music in the first place, in anticipation of Henry's actions, but then in the end, he was too powerful.
@@alexanderdumas- oh I see, yes that wasn't really explained was it . The duffers did say they was only showing their cards in this season so we will definitely get the full picture next season, I'm still a little confused on some things 🤣
Actually that’s what happened right. Henry said it himself. “When papa couldn’t control me he tried to recreate me” and that’s what project MKultra is. They introduce Henry’s DNA to the fetus and that’s how kids with special powers were born. They were isolated just after being born and raised up in the asylum or the lab. My theory is the mother somehow gets the power as well with the blood connection at the time of birth but it fades away somehow with time(since they brainwash the mother I guess) but with Terry Ives what happened was she started to remember that she had a baby and she goes back and then they brainwashes her so she’s not in a physically capable state so her mind is isolated thus she can use her powers that’s how she showed her memories to eleven when she tried to communicate. Other than that Terry can’t to anything with her telepathy power.
I thought the same thing. It makes sense. Otherwise why would they have taken 11 directly at birth? What would make them think she was special? Seems like they just used his DNA to create more kids.
@@rashmirathnayake_ well i think that terry ives and henry are the biological parents of eleven while rest of the kids were made by dna transfer. Remember terrys sister said that they took people like terry who were once drug addicts or had some mental problems because it was easier to manipulate the minds of such people. I think dr. Brenner tried to manipulated minds of the subjects like terry ives to give them some weak psychic powers and then made them concieve babies who had henrys dna. But henry and terry actually fell in love and had eleven and thats why henry was nice to eleven and wanted her to join him in his mission
@@rashmirathnayake_ I could see this being true except in the case of eleven. When Eleven’s mom was tested on with LSD no one knew she was pregnant until after the tests had begun so Eleven’s powers were either a side effect of the MKUltra tests or natural like Henry’s. I’m not sure about the other kids tho.
Will definitely still has an important role to play. Rewatching season 1, it feels like he was intentionally left alive for a reason. I think it could even be possible that Will may have some sort of latent abilities and Vecna sees him as a suitable vessel to allow himself to exist outside of the upside down. And now would be the perfect time with Vecna no longer having a physical body.
I honestly think the upside down being stuck in 1983 isn’t going to be used as a way to change time but as a way to get things from Hawkins that are no longer there. Maybe from Brenner’s lab or something from the school like the big radio mr. Clark had.
maybe will has always known from the start he is the one that will end the upside-down, and he keeps wanting to play with his friends etc cuz he knows he is gona loose it all
I'm in the camp that really hopes Will turns out to have powers of his own. Right now it kind of seems like Will somehow brought a copy of the entire town of Hawkins into the upside down with him, and I don't see how Vecna could have done that if he can't even open a gate without borrowing powers from Eleven. So it makes me wonder if Will somehow brought all the buildings into the Upside Down and what else he can do.
I like this theory a lot. If it ended up being true, I wonder if the Duffer brothers didn't have this idea in season 1. There's just some small continuation problems. Like one that immediately comes to my mind is when Joyce's first phone was fried and she purchased another one. If Will was able to communicate with her through that (it wasn't in their home when he disappeared) how come Nancy's guns weren't in her room? Does it just have to do with electricity in some way, not the object itself, since Dustin et al. were still able to communicate with the others in the Upside Down with the Lite Brite that wasn't technically there. So what role does electricity have, then? 001 was struck by lightening when he was banished to the Upside Down. I feel theres a connection there, if your theory proves true.
The 80's metal band Iron Maiden had an undead zombie mascot named "Eddie" and I think that Eddie will return as such a type of creature who will assist the gang. That's too much of an 80's metal call back for the Duffer Brothers to resist.
I didn't like that storyline but I'm really hoping they do bring her back. She has an incredible gift that can be very useful and this second go round, Vecna will be brutal. I mean we've already seen what he did to Max and how he wanted El to watch but now that they've hurt him? He's pissed off and El will need some help. Also, if they never brought her back, then that would be a huge plot hole and one that I really don't think the duffer brothers would neglect.
@@blehhhhh655 yes i agree! I think bringing 8 back will make that storyline come full circle. I think that the whole 008 story from season 2 was weird and kinda sucked but that it won't be in vain if they bring her back for season 5.
Okay, but what if Kali was back this season? What if she was using her powers to manipulate the faction of the military that was going after Eleven? She could be the BAMF general dude in disguise targeting Owen and his people in an effort to find and kill Brenner. It’s out there but I don’t think Argyle’s pizza van could have escaped the government posse if El was their real target.
Since they've already said there is going to be a timeskip I think her bones will be healed up by the time season 5 starts, although she'll still be brain dead and possibly blind. My theory is that even Vecna doesn't know where she's at, because she technically wasn't fully absorbed- the process was stopped right before she "died". I think she's hidden in his mindscape, or trapped somewhere else, with no way back to her body. Those that Vecna absorbs seem to be prisoners but my guess is Max will be free, but has to remain hidden. She will eventually find others and try to free them. One other theory is that she will find the other numbers (the 9 that were absorbed). This equals 20 total. In the beginning of Season 4 it took a roll of 20 to defeat the DnD Vecna.
Since it was the 80's and we all had VHS tapes and Robin couldn't nail down a name for Vecna I've been seeing VH1 circulate as his name for Vecna Henry 001 =VH1 and I think the duffers should use it. I like it.
I think Max is living rent-free inside Vecna's mind because of what 11 did to her. She will end up being his downfall..He called her weak and that will bite him in the ass next season. Max will probably free the others that have been consumed by him and they will team up and try and open a door in his mind to bring 11 back in to destroy him.
I believe that Max's letters won't get forgotten. She now might be trapped in Vecna's mind, and i believe that Lucas will read her the letter she left him and it will bring her back memories to help her escape off Vecna's mind and wake up from the coma
Imagine if 001 turns out to be controlled by the mindflayer all along and was actually not originally evil. I think Elle will get into Vecnas head and find a child version of Henry that has been trapped away and it may take both of their powers and a sacrifice from Henry to win the battle.
Lol ngl I really think it's 011 🤣🤣 But that device that was in Henry if you look close it was glowing red like the upside down so I guess it's the particles that make the mind flayer. Brenner tells 011 I had you looking for the soviets you're mad at yourself for realsing Henry from his prison. So maybe youre right but that was a evil lil mahfakaka though 🤣😑
He didn't have to be "hitting the town and getting women pregnant".. The theory is that he was used to impregnate women in the lab, who participated in the experiments there (which El's Mom did..) with Henry's DNA in order to try to replicate his powers. It's definitely not a far fetched idea considering that's what Brenner's entire goal was...
@@MD_-ub8rx how do you know? 🤔 Just because he never overtly showed powers before doesn't mean he didn't have them, it means he didn't use them because he had no reason to try not knowing about them.
@@MD_-ub8rx He was born with them because he killed his Mom and Sister and pinned it on his Dad, Victor Creel, before he ever met "Papa" and became "001".
My Fan Theory: if Eddie is in fact brought back somehow, he is attached to the upside down becoming the guardian of the Upside Down. This would bring his D&D name to life, Eddie the Banished. He would be banished to the upside down, alive and guarding it against future monsters.
This is the only Eddie coming back theory that makes sense and would be poetic but I don't know how I'd feel about such a beloved character stuck in hell basically.
My theory is that Eddie never died in the first place. When he was attacked by the bats Dustin left him because obviously Dustin didn’t want to “Die” as well. It’s possible that the bats aren’t lethal because Steve survived the attack. They left Eddie there because of course they wouldn’t drag the supposed “Dead” body up into the real world. In my opinion I think that in Stranger Things, no one is really dead unless you can see there dead body which we didn’t see for Eddie. Examples are Hopper and Brenner.
I think El will fly in S5 and not only that, she'll manipulate time as well. Seems like that's what she was doing to save Max; she rewound time, forshadowed by the counter-clockwise camera movement when she was bringing Max back to life and also the somewhat clock noise in the score. And then later on, in the cabin, El finds the coke bottle and spins it clockwise and the scene cuts to Max in the hospital. All the spinning when they show El and Max makes me believe she'll manipulate time to save everyone.
I thought what she did with Max was restarting her heart with her powers, the same way she can make someone piss themself or explode their brain, she made Max’s heart beat again
@@anatoldenevers237 of course that's possible, even the likely answer. But there's just a lot of foreshadowing of time manipulation and story wise, it feels like they're trying to go for something bigger than what we've seen before.
@@nsan48 They're certainly going bigger, they seem to go bigger every season, but I really hope it's not time travel. Time travel I feel like is generally pretty hard to do without messing things up and creating holes in the story. Not impossible to do it right, but I personally hope they don't go that way.
I don’t know why you all think Vecna “lost” his physical form. If that was the case, his body would’ve still been in the spot he landed on or there would’ve been a pile of ashes or something like that.
I thought since Venca "Body" didn't get created until he came into the Upsidedown and controlled the Mind Fryer. So wouldn't his body turn into steam like the other monster from there, so Vecna could be in someone or steam but his body disengraded outside the house
@@distinguishedallureproduct879 I think your “steam” idea only counts for things that originated FROM the Upside Down, Vecna is not from the Upside Down, he’s a human that got sent there. By your logic, Eddie should’ve turned to dust as well.
@@ellisbud222 you are correct,vecna didn’t lose his physical body.plus:will said that he is alive and hurt so if he lives than how come he is hurt if he lost his physical body?
@@ellisbud222 Didn't Hopper and the Russian team take out some demons with fire and they turned to steam, I am not saying One (Henry) isn't Vecna, but the body he transformed is, is apart of the Hive mind meaning of course that disappears. But now that Henry(Vecna) is a cloud he can be everywhere and anyone
@@neonkrypton Pretty sure Eleven already basically did the Kas role when Vecna massacred the lab though. She helped him by removing the device Brenner had in his neck, but then she turned on him after he revealed himself to be a total psychopath, defeating him but not quite managing to kill him.
Oh that scene with max being killed literally brought me to tears... And when she was brought back by Eleven I had a thought that maybe Eleven could have the power to bring the psychic kids and Eddie back somehow
Nah. They’re long gone. What she did was basically use her particular powers to re-pump Max’s heart. That’s why she’s still in a coma and maybe no brain activity
Dustin was the only one who saw Eddie die. There was definitely a period of time where Dustin was away from Eddie. It could be that all of Eddie's death was vecna making Dustin see things like vecna did with everyone else. Playing on Dustin's guilt for leaving Eddie behind.
No. He was a bit busy at that time. In no way did he split his focus from Eleven just to mess with Dustin's mind. He had Max right there, he just had to get through Eleven to finally crack the barrier between dimensions.
I think the upside down has been a premonition of what’s to come the entire time. When they went to look for the gun in Nancy’s room she said “this is from 2 years ago, the diary entries stop the day Will went missing” that day sealed the fate for Hawkins (the dark clouds, the red lightning, the particles floating everywhere as we now see in the end of season 4) and as Vecna said “nothing you can do can stop what’s to come”
I’m gonna have to rewatch now from the beginning to Season 1. There’s so much that I get confused. Like I forgot about that whole bit about it being 1983 when they got there.
@@rumham7466 yeah it’s in the 4th season when they realize it’s from 2 years ago. And just think, when Vecna gets there first it doesn’t look anything like hawkins
Now that Vecna's been able to open up such a massive gate in the middleof Hawkins, expect the Upsidedown to try to gradually merge with Hawkins itself. During the timejump Hawkins will gradually resemble the Upsidedown version more & more...all the while Vecna is preparing his army of monsters intending to fully emerge out of the gate & into Hawkins for a full out invasion! Expecting something similar to Stephen King's The Mist where the entire town is hiding from the permanent mist in which monsters attack & kill anyone it comes into contact with. While the locals are hiding in terror, the US soldiers are battling it out with the monsters, & the party all split up into groups, each of whom playing their part of the same plan....be it in Hawkins, the Upsidedown, Vecna's mindlair, etc.
This show has defiantly become so much better than I originally imagined it to be when season 1 finished. Season 4 in my opinion has set the stage for at least 3 more seasons if they wanted, I am a little upset that they are ending the show with just five seasons' knowing that it can go on for allot longer. Tv has lacked on good shows for that past several years so it's always hard seeing a good show go away but I hope season 5 will be as good as we hope and now a slow disappointment due to rushing the end of the show and starting a spin off series that I believe won't last long.
I HAVE A THEORY!!!!!! Eddie got 'killed' by bats, right? The Kas theory says that like Kas in D&D, Eddie will turn into a vampire and become Vecna's right hand man and eventually turn on him and kill him. In D&D, vampires are created when another vampire 'drains the life out of a living creature'. There are many different types of vapires in D&D, including Swarmform Vampires, which have the ability to assume the form of a swarm of creatures, so I'm thinking that the swarm of bats that attacked Eddie were actually a Swarmform Vampire, and that would lead onto the Kas theory. It would also explain how the Kas theory applies to Eddie and not to Steve; Steve also got bitten by bats, but there were only a few, unlike the swarm that attacked Eddie. Idk, I think the Duffer brothers based Eddie's character on Kas, so it would make sense.
Mike will overpower everyone with is leadership skill in season 5 reason He always play winning card like trusting elven in season 1 In season 2 he was the one who spotted Minflayer weak spot in tunnel In season 3 he always warned elven do not to overuse your power ( when Minflayer arrived she drained her all power) and they lost In season 4 he got love role which empowered to defeat vecna
I'm glad not only did they finally call back Will and his little piece of Upside-Down shrapnel that's still stuck in him, but that the show creators more or less flat out said that he's gonna be a major part of the final season. The show gave us its 1st taste of The Upside-down in the 1st season, even 1st episode (right?) with Will going missing. So it's good for him to come full circle. From a personal fan of the show standpoint, I thought the kid who played Will gave an AMAZING, emotional, raw, realistic/believable acting performance in that 2nd season, and I, like many others apparently, thought he was severely underutilized these last 2 seasons, so im looking forward to the little guy put on an acting clinic as a vital part of the end of the show.... also, if they REALLY wanna do right by Will, they need to finally cut that damn full bodied, but still worse, Moe Howard haircut off him 😆 🤣 😂 It was more distracting to me than his growth and "puberty voice".... shit, more than ALL the kids growth and awkward puberty points lol.... That's the problem with child actors; most of em get just as awkward as the rest of us once we hit 14, 16 years old 😅 Well...all yall... not me... I was awesome, handsome, and all man, from the moment I pimp walked out my mama's twat, riggt up until today when I went for my 1st cancer treatment--- all awesome, all the time, for all time ⏲️ 👍 😀 👏 💙 ❤️ ⏲️ 👍 random emoji parade
Would love to see Eddie "reanimated" but as a good zombie to fight back against Vecna, further cementing the Iron Maiden reference his character has made
I think el is going to die next season since it is the final season for the series. If el and vecna are one in the same in one way then both have to die in order for everything to end.
@@munkayttaja6913 They don't have to hold back, but that doesn't mean they won't care about them anymore. It'll likely be only a few main characters dying. Not the whole cast. That's just disappointing.
@@notyepdranel961 I literally named 2 main characters on top of Eleven. Dustin or Steve bc they are the fan favorites so other may die and also Steve was supposed to die already but they kept him bc fans liked him. Dustin is now traumatized and feels guilty for Eddie's death so it makes him a Vecna target. And Will bc of his connection with the upside down
@@munkayttaja6913 yeah. Major character deaths are important to the story. Since it’s the last season some of them are bound to die. Either Mike dies and El finds great power in sorrow or El dies at the great battle. Either way a few characters should die. Don’t hate me now but Max should’ve died this season. Giving Caleb’s performance much credit and all our emotions a value. I love her but if her character or the state that she’s now In doesn’t hold a candle to next season it just proves that Duffer brothers doesn’t have the balls to kill of major characters.
@@rashmirathnayake_ I agree that Max should have died. I was very dissapointed that she didn't. Season 5 needs major deaths. El for sure. Then a big fan favorite, either Steve or Dustin. Having 2 -main characters die in the final season would be big enough rly. Then maybe 1 side character, Erica, Johnathan or Robin (if they count as side characters)
the only reason Max will be able to come back to her body is because she’s got a heart beating body, all the other victims of the upside down will most likely be decomposed, buried in the ground etc so there’s no way any of them could come back except from Max
I always felt that Will might have latent psychic abilities. Also “Will” in RPGs typically is a stat that determines strength of the mind and defense vs curses and ailments. Vecna taking him over so that he can physically invade the real world is a possibility! Might be tough for them to fight their own friend.
This season had one of Jason's friend was Andy. Andy is the name of the kid in "Child's Play" and Chucky wanted to transfer his soul to Andy's body. I can definitely see that theory of will being vecnas vessel happening in season 5.
The biggest thing in media for a lot of situations is that "If and when you see a character die, then they are dead". Now of course writers will botch this and show a death but then be like "OH NO THEY LIVE" but often in a lot of pieces if someone falls off a cliff but the body isn't shown, then there's room to write in that they were able to save themselves. However, I truly feel characters like Brenner and Eddie (as much as I love him) are fully dead. Now this video did have me run across an idea that since Vecna was not fully able to perform the ritual on Max, he was able to obtain her "soul" like he has with his other victims (hence why I don't really think there's any saving for those characters, they also showed their the empty corpses left behind). A lot of more discussions I've had with friends is how there's so much that can be seen through D&D which was talked about in the video although I had it more connected to the idea that the Shadow behaves more like an Elder Brain comparison and not Tiamat, but I didn't ever think about the painting. This season has brought to us different appearances of the upside down. When we were talking about it all, we went to the concept of different planes of existence since color isn't just a coincidence. Max is stuck in Limbo, the reverse Upside Down may refer to the Negative Energy Plane, and the red where the Creel house is is The Nine Hells. Stuck on thinking if where Henry first landed was Outland or my original thought of The Gray Wastes. Vecna is able to travel across multiverses which is why he's able to basically be between all these areas. I had called prior that Vecna was calling the shots early in his reveal because as monsters, the Mind Flayer is technically stat wise a weaker monster than Vecna. Now that you brought Tiamat into this, I'm now got my brain running all cylinders going back to stats. There was also the drop from IGN that season 5 will have a kinda "Return of the King-ish" ending which has me believing now some things that I didn't before but I believe how it concludes still goes the route I believe it would. As long as it's not written like a shitty "FRIENDSHIP IS POWERFUL AGAINST THE EVIL" because I might throw up lol.
I think we're going to see Henry start loosing control next season. Control over the Upside Down and its creatures, control over the consciousnesses he's stolen, control over himself possibly. If he could steal El's powers in S3, maybe El can shut off his. I think this is going to be a group effort with a psychic attack led by Max (perhaps with an assist from Chrissy, the lab kids, and Virginia Creele) and El with her warriors in Hawkins (Hop and the others). But we shall see! I just hope they don't do a cliche sacrifice scene. We've already had a few of those.
I wouldn’t consider any of the novels or comics canon at this point. El’s biological father may very well be a guy Terry dated in college that Brenner had sent to be killed in Vietnam to get him out of the way. But Suspicious Minds does have Brenner going to Hawkins until 1969 and Kali was the only test subject with powers. Season 4 shows Brenner there by 1959. It also shows that there were at least 17 test subjects with powers. There’s also a comic where 006 is a redheaded girl that predicts lottery numbers. In the show, 006 is a black boy. So the novels and comics are greats reads, but full of details that were contradicted in the last two seasons.
Love your breakdowns and really really really 'bad puns'. haha Season 4 of 'Stranger Things' was awesome. I believe Will will become possessed by Vecna for most of season 5.
We got the clues of how they are going to defeat Henry/Venca/One in the DnD campaign. The Duffer Brothers like using it as a means of foreshadowing, so it will be a sneak attack (perhaps from Max in his mind?). Or I think he'll kill El and she'll take over from inside his mind. Either way can't wait to see how this will play out! Hypothesis time!!!!
Hmmm... Max is very strong-willed but I don't think she will get abilities... she just learns to use her own best memories to keep Vecna at bay... she may indeed provide some kind of assistance in the final battle but I can't see that as very likeky... I say this because Vecna does not fully consume her as he does his other victims... so it's not likely she's a part of him in any appreciable way... and while she is brought back to life... it's not really the same as being fully alive. her body 'lives' but Max isn't really "there" as is evidenced by El not being able to locate 'her' in the void despite being right next to her body in the hospital...
I was absolutely invested with the amazing and gripping writing this season and could probably my favourite after S1. I hope this is only the beginning of an epic saga rather than just being a trilogy.
Respect to the writers and showrunners for doing what so many shows fail to challenge - actually presenting a risk to a core character that pushes the plot along. Too many projects layer the ham on to entice viewers to care while highlighting all the ways that “they’ll be okay”. Hoping this won’t be dropped going into the final season and the resolution will carry the weight it’s been given thus far.
I am sure that Stranger Things will end with every kid that had superpowers being dead, because they´ll find out that is the only way to stop Vecna. That means El is forced to make a difficult decision and sacrifices herself for her friends.
I think that Will's feelings towards Mike being highlighted in season 4 is foreshadowing for Will's ultimate sacrifice. Since we've already established that Mike and Eleven have feelings for each other and Will's (romantic?) feelings for Mike are not mutual, I believe that Eleven will actually survive season 5 because of Will sacrificing himself for Mike's happiness. The connection he has with Vecna and the Upside Down hints his major role in season 5 for Will who although was not highlighted in season 4, is very much a main character in this series. Other than that I believe that Dustin and Eddie's relationship will not be exploited by Vecna just like Max and Billy's did, due to the wholesomeness of Dustin+Eddie compared to the pre existing drama of Max+Billy. I think the final season will see the loses of Max and Will to defeat Vecna and also Steve and Murray during the overall fight. Would also not be surprised if Nancy is one of the major character loses of the final season! Great video thanks for the content!
I think El will sacrifice her own existence to travel back far enough to kill young Henry before Brenner creates the Hawkins Project. This would erase her and all the other child prisoners from ever existing. But quick question... Do we know is El's mother was pregnant before she participated in Brenner's trial? I can't remember. If that's the case, imagine an alternative world where El is just a normal girl, living a happy life with her mother. This would be an ending I could get behind. And I've said this before, but if they go the time travel route, I would love the final scene to be of Eddie and the kids at Hellfire Club playing D&D, where they battle imaginary versions of Vecna, the Demogorgon, and The Mind Flayer.
Eleven will infiltrate Vecna's mind and free Max's consciousness and the souls of other victims. He will then grow desperate and try to consume the Shadow monster. He fails and it is revealed that Vecna was allowed to stick around until the shadow consumed him and moved into Will, it's desired host. Vecna dies realizing that just like Papa, he tried to control something stronger than himself and failed, releasing it into the world. He recalls calling papa a weak human, and realizes he was also a weak human compared to the Flayer.
@@Sasso-pf1mo Goofy is believing Vecna to be the final villain. He basically worships the Mind Flayer so it was shaped into a spider like form. Watch Vecna be flayed since the beginning and only misled people to think he was the leader. Vecna is a good villain but it would be lame if he was the final boss. His power just doesn't seem as threatening as a final boss should be.
@@joetyrant4713 Duffer brothers so easily could’ve used some cgi monster if it ain’t the big boss around here. Mind flayer maybe more powerful than henry. Hell yeah it should be cause henry was just a man who happens to step into a whole new world. But he had some powers within himself to harness a super powerful creature in the new world to do his bidding. But henry was the one with a motive. He was the one who wanted to make a brand new world punish the guilty punish the weak and so on. The mind flayer definitely didn’t want that it wasn’t aware at all. I think we should think of the mind flayer as a object more than a creature. Henry somehow acquired it when he saw it, it helped him to control the other creatures like demogorgens, demodogs, demobats and what’s there in that world since it’s a hive mind. When you acquire the brain you get everything that the brain controls. If vecna is defeated, and the gates are closed somehow the mind flayer cannot affect the physical world as we already saw in S2,3. It is useless.
@@rashmirathnayake_ How do you know the Shadow particles had no awareness at all? All we got was a tiny clip of it shaping into the Flayer form that we know. I think people might be assuming too much here.
@@joetyrant4713 I’m not talking about the tiny clip we got in S4E9 I’m talking about the story they built about the mind flayer from the beginning. We all thought the mind flayer was the big boss right? Ok so we also saw in S2 all the demodogs fell dead just when El closed the gate. So that means when there is no gate, the mind flayer cannot reach our world. Right? And all the creatures even a dust particle from the UD which is in our world is powerless. Guess who had the power to reach the world even there is no gate was open…..Henry. Boom 💥 Since gates have been opened and closed in Hawkins the veil between time and space is very thin around Hawkins that’s why Russians sought out lands in Hawkins to build a gate which was explained in S3. Maybe because of this particular reason, henry was able to get into some teens heads and kill them to open his own gates. Once the gates are open he can very easily use the mind flayer to attack our world too. Who’s more powerful now!! Most of us are reaching to conclusions that henry is more powerful not because the mind flayer is not powerful. Just like I said, mind flayer maybe powerful than henry but it doesn’t matter damn it. Henry is the missing piece in this TV series and it was told like a hundred times over. In episode 7, the Nancy gang themselves told that. Vecna/Henry/001 was the villain all along. Even Will said that. I don’t know if you want to believe this supernatural creature from UD is the main villain here but I think we all will stick to the storyline while you can stick to yours. No offense!
Right?! And he keeps talking about Vecna not having a physical body when we all saw he walked away since the body was no longer where it landed, even Will mentions it.
6:45 no that can’t explain it cause she got her abilities from her mother cause in season 2 when eleven found her mom and her mom was trying to comunitcate with her and the lights were flashing eleven went back to her mom and she had a nose bleed like eleven when she uses her powers
I think Eleven trying to bring back Max inadvertently allowed Vecna to piggyback into Maxs mind where he'll recoup. in the end I don't think El will kill Vecna outright, more like take his place and it really seems like Vecna can only be hurt/killed by a completely new plan/method. if it fails he adapts and it'll never work again
They don’t have the same powers 8 can only create illusions and might have mild psychic powers(I don’t remember) they all seem non lethal unless they actually crash a car. Vecna torments and kills people and has both telekinetic and telepathic powers.
@@FullMetalB Well it's not about "allowed," no one is stopping you, but yes, actually, it is less reasonable to comment more than once when it's just to say the same, unconstructive, bitter things. That's a real troll move. And you said Vecna was 8 turned up to 11...what could that possibly be referring to other than similar powers? (I also just thought "powers" because that was what the comment you're responding to was about) What else is similar? Vecna didn't start a gang with some punk kids, Vecna's not an anti-establishment anti-hero, he's a straight up villain, The only thing similar about 1 and 8's backstories are that they were in Brenner's facility at all. What's similar? Also, I don't even think 8's backstory is what people didn't like either, anyway. The issues were, I believe, more relating to 11's arc, as well as just kind of not feeling the new characters in general. 8's powers and backstory I didn't think were considered particularly bad in and of themselves at all, it was more just "Who the hell is this person, and why do we care right now?" Vecna has a whole season arc and is very important. We very much care about who Vecna is and what his deal is. It's an entirely different context.
Or when vecna was on fire, he may be turning back into his human form and his hand is getting more human-like when he was fighting eleven in the finale so it suggests that he turns back into his human form when he gets weaker
As much as I would love to see Eddie back, he should stay dead. As a storyteller I personally love seeing the stakes being raised to where a character dies. Having that character come back cheapens the story to me. With that said…bring Max back! 😤
yeah i was actually sort of disappointed that they made it seem like they were going to have the stones to kill max only to flinch and miraculously bring her back.
My wishlist for season 5 - See Eight and the gang come back to the show and join the gang in the alliance to fight against the monsters in the upside down. - See some resolution to Eleven’s mom, maybe eleven could trigger her new ability to revive her memories, giving more history to Eleven’s history, and could also help her get some insight on how to control that abilities to help regain Max’s consciousness. - Lastly, since the Duffer brothers mentioned Will be a central focus of the next season. I hope to see him have some abilities, could possibly link his abilities to open and close portals to the upside down. Which explains why he could enter the upside down all the from the beginning of season 1. Also will be nice for the writers to give him an actual love interest to join the gang. The falling in love with the straight best friend, Mike, plot is so cliche, and it’s time to move past that.
The upside down always existed and will always exist. But to end its connection with the real world, Vecna has to die cause he's the one controlling the creatures. The particles had their own powers i guess and Vecna just gave them a shape and took over them. And because El created the doorway, she might have to die or lose her powers forever so that there's no other way to re open the doorway. El revived Max's body out of desperation so her body is still alive but her consciousness her soul is consumed by Vecna like his other victims. And he's probably using them to heal himself cause Will said he's hurting. Max still has her body unlike other victims. So her soul can come back to her body. But she'll still need time to recover and maybe El will be able to see into her mind then. Duffers said S5 will have the original pairings. So it's El Mike Lucas and Dustin working together again to save Max and Will. Because Will is going to be the host again. He definitely has connection with Vecna. And he's lonely and insecure. Easy victim. Vecna will surely make him think negative about his loved ones. He'll be forced to do more evil things this time. And it'll be Will against El. Mike and his family is in danger too. He can die if what Nancy saw is actually the future. If that happens El might save him like she did with Max. El is dying however I look at it. But I'm not the writer so...
Thats True the upside down wasnt created by Henry/Vecna/One, it always existed as a realm Henry just controlled everything in there and made them do his bidding.
💯 agree. I believe El will/should die at the ultimate battle against vecna. Otherwise there’s no point of defeating vecna and keeping a all powerful girl alive cause it’s always about balace of the nature. And Jamie said their numbers 001 and 011 in greek are alpha and omega which foreshadows light and dark. Where one is darkness and eleven is light I guess.
3:10 "Their bodies are also strung up in Vecna's home". No, that's his mind/mindscape. We saw Steve, Nancy, and Robin set him on fire in his home, an intact building in the Upside Down, where the heroes had to creep over vines that eventually pinned them to the walls. It was an undamaged building, in the Upside Down version of Hawkins. The place where max escapes from him is his *mind*. Note that the sky is bright red, and his house there is in pieces, with the door floating in the air. Those character's bodies were probably buried by their families. The corpses we see tied to stalagmites are are Vecna's mind.
a time jump has been confirmed for season 5 by the Duffers! It’ll nicely allow for some loose ends from s4 to be tied up. I think we will start season 5 in a more dystopian setting, most importantly, resolving the shtty military side plot from this season. Max will now have been in her coma for 1-2 years, hopper and Joyce could have a baby, Nancy and Steve could be together- increasing the stakes Nancy becoming a Sarah Conor’s type of character would be an amazing nod to the 90s era. Hopefully her affinity for sawed off shotguns is a bit of foreshadowing.
Sounds stupid🤣. All of this stuff just suddenly happening without us knowning what had happened in that huge ass time and the characters just sitting there for 2 years like Hawkins wasn't being destroyed.
The gate that opened in Eddie's trailer was on the ceiling. What if they destroyed the the whole trailer into little pieces, would that get rid of the gate?
I'm still a bit torn between Vecna being the overall big bad, I have definitely enjoyed this season, its been amazing, though I guess I just thought the mind flayer would come into this more. However! Theory time, theory time, theory time... The mind flayers 'particles' were there already along with the Demogorgon, so it's possible it is an entity in of itself, it's just Vecna corrupted this new dimension with his hatred. This would come into play with how emotions play a huge part in this series...an example of how this could of happened is how the upside down lightning is now red, whereas when he's first there it looks more yellow/orange
There is still a gap in between who Elle's biological father is. Maybe Elle may actually be a half sibling to Henry. Vecna says they are "alike" in several scenes. Victor (Henry's father) has a vision when under Henry's spell showed a burning baby. Theres some kind of significance.
OK I have a theory of my own that may blow your minds. What if there are multiple upside downs? Vecna has his personal place that takes on the shape of his childhood home and has a red background. However the upside down we are familiar with resembles Hawkins the day Will went missing. What if the darker blue upside down was shaped to fit Will? What if the mindflayer didn't like being controlled by Vecna so it sought out Will to defeat him? Also if Vecna's realm is in the present and Will's realm is stuck in the past, then Vecna already knew he was going to succeed as it already happened. In the upside down Vecna exist both in past and present. In order to defeat Vecna, I believe Vecna will have to be drawn out into the real world or has to be forever sealed in his own realm. Being sealed away forever would not deal with the mindflayer, but that's where Will comes in. If the mindflayer is like a virus and it's cut off from Vecna, all that remains is Will. If Will dies and Eleven seals up all the gates the mindflayer will die and Hawkins will be forever saved.
@@ghostsauce2418 if the upside-down is my own mind, then I'd rather face Vecna there, as that is where I'd be strongest. However, that is also where Vencna is strongest. I think it may be like Nightmare on Elm Street: Dream Warriors, but in the case of stranger things you have 11 and Will who I believe both have powers to rival Vecna's
There is only 1 upside down the red place where the broken flying creels house exist is in vecnas mind thats why max was able to reach there and vecna didnt want her to do so because obviously if she told the others what she saw nancy will guess the place and they will easily know where vecna is operating from which is exactly what happened
Timetravel in S5 is a certainty! Vecna literally showed Nancy that he's going back in time when the grandfather clock hands were moving backwards in the vision he gave her! The grandfather clock suggests that they going to the past, just as Nancy said when realizing that the Upsidedown is frozen on the day Will went missing on November 6 1983!!! The original Montauk project was experiments in TIME, & so there's just too many hints at it for it not to come into play! Hopefully S5 will be the Back to the Future type season! Even Will actually wore the same jacket as Marty Mcfly did in BTTF...can't be a coincidence!!!
@@geraldjohnson7435 I also think that Linda Hamilton will be future 11 because they haven't revealed her character name as yet....despite all of the other leaks!
I still believe The Mindflayer is still the big baddie.. I think we’re going to see a flashback, where The Mindflayer gives powers to Henry.. and that’s why Henry drew The Mindflayer.. as he had already seen him subconsciously..
@@munkayttaja6913 just because he gave form to mindflayer doesnt mean vecna is the final boss. I mean eleven whopped his ass and i think in S5 eleven will have bigger challenge fighitng mindflayer than vecna cuz he doesnt even seem that strong
I agree it’s like when will was possessed, and he would draw pictures of his visions of the mind flayer. I believe that the mind flayer somehow had a connection with Henry due to his hatred towards humans and that’s why he granted him these powers. Idk just a theory
I think there will be a flash forward to our present time. I always figured that would happen since the show is based in the 1980s. We will probably have older versions of our characters in their 50s. And maybe the monsters might come back to haunt their grandkids like in many horror tropes such as Pennywise, Freddy Krueger, Scream, etc
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Is the upside down supposed to be hell? Forgive me I've never actually watched the show I don't have whatever Plus channel it's on but I've been watching the highlights. Anyway what was the point of all this for the Russians and the Americans to spy on each other? What is the gain of dealing with this dimension?
Break it all down yes
Eleven has a biological father its in the books
I totally agree Will is the key Season 5. Full circle. It starts with him and will end with him.
You forgot a BIG plot point!!! Nancy’s vision from 1, she saw a huge monster with a giant mouth eating people!!!
Venca finally gave Stranger Things the one thing it needed for a while, an actual face and plan for the big bad guy.
fully agree, glad they retconned the faceless monsters into being under his control
@@FullMetalB who gives a shit? Let people like stuff if they like it. Why does it bother you so much that people can like stuff that you don't?
@@FullMetalB how is any of stranger things generic
IMO the mindflayer was much more terrifieng. A creature jumping from dimension to dimension, detroying planets… Something humans can’t compete with. I hope Vecna is just a puppet…
Imma be honest the answer was far less interesting than the question
Argyle was the most important guy. If he didn't take eleven to the pizzeria kitchen, she wouldn't have faced vecna.
So was Murray! He literally saved everyone without even realizing it... They are both underrated.
I wouldn’t say saved everyone. Bought more time yea. But he’s still alive. They should have lopped off his head. But then there wouldn’t be a season 5.
@@rumham7466 fair. Saved everyone in the moment.
AGREEEDDDDDD
Argyle is a prime clutch dude
Talking about Will, while I think yes, Will will be fundamental in tracking down Vecna, he might also play a even bigger role. I just can’t help thinking that he’s very similar to how Henry was, actually, Joyce described him as a „sensitive kid“ that likes to draw. Looking at season 4, Henry was described just the same. This definitely is a connection that seems intended, and the theory that Vecna was the one who kidnapped Will in the first season also seems to make much more sense, with all we’ve seen, it even makes more sense than it being the demogorgon. If that actually pinpoints anything important, I don’t know, but it could MAYBE mean that Will could have similar powers to Vecnas.. and that they just haven’t been forced to awaken yet. Maybe that’s the reason he was the first target, the reason he wasn’t killed in the upside down, the reason he was chosen as the mindflayers vessel. Or - and I sadly consider this as more likely than the actually interesting theory - it could simply mean that Will is the perfect vessel for Vecna since he’s so much like he used to be when he was younger. Meaning that’s why the mindflayer wanted to kill everybody BUT him, as Will said in season 2.
i see it as vecna wanting will to join him maybe? like how he wanted eleven to join him
@@lyingfx9657 oh yeah, that would also be possible! good theory!!
🤯🤯🤯
I think the Mind Flyers personally choose Will, not Vecna he is just following orders like Dustin said he is the general. Mind Flyers himself choose Will since he is a kid with abilities maybe turn illusion into reality or reality warping? idk. Remember that Vecna accidentally goes to UD but Will kinda like invited. That's why the story started with *Vanishing of Will* since it will be ended with him especially UD is modeled after DnD games.
@@MrGergasikuat I think you make a lot of sense here. I will add few points here. Vecna is strong and everything. But we need to remember that Henry aka 001 became Vecna only because he gained his powers from Mindflayer (Dark Shadow in UD). So, Mindflayer has been using Vecna as a vessel to carry out his ultimate plan; Taking over the entire world. Now when the duffer Bros threw us a little off the track when Vecna told El that it was him all along. But let us not underestimate Mindflayer. Henry is Vecna only because of Mindflayer.
Henry thinks he knows how to use the darkness to his advantage, but he forgets one thing; he didn't create upside down, he was just sent there by El. And the twist will be; Henry realising that he was used all along.
Given Mind Flayers and Will's connection, i gotta say there will be a lot of Focus on Will.
Also, I don't know why no one talked about the fact that; when Max is about to end up in Vecna's mind in the first instance (Kreel House) they show a Tombstone, which says '_ _yers" some letters missing; I presume it says Beyers or Bayers.
Might be it is Will Bayers/ Beyers.
Eddie could come back as Vecna's servant. Since Eddie plays a lot of DND, there is a character in DND that mirrors with Eddies character, his name is Kas. Kas is described as a powerful warrior. He died to fighting the bats, just Iike Eddie, and Vecna resurrected him as his lieutenant, Kas later betrayed Vecna and defeated him. Even though Kas is still in his Vampire form, is humanity is still inside of him.
quite possibly the only thing more badass than eddie munson is resurrected VAMPIRE eddie munson holy shit
I hope that comes true
Why does Eddie defeat Vecna ? That doesn't make sense. This is the role of El, let El does it 😅
Eddie Vader
i saw somebodys comment on another video saying something about how eddie could possibly come back from effects from the demobats since anybody bit from something from the upside down some other thing has happened so the theory was basicly the demobats effects him to bring eddie back and will make eddie on vecnas side
I love the idea of Lucas getting some time to shine in season 5 a bit. After what happened to Max I’m sure he feels a lot guilt for not only her death but also opening the last gate unintentionally. Seeing a storyline where we can see him navigate through that would be amazing to see.
Max is in a coma but she’s not dead yet. Vecna/001 technically “killed” Max. Lucas mentions that her heart stopped for one minute and that’s how the portal opened and why the clock chimed four times. But Eleven somehow saves her. At the hospital Eleven goes into Max’s mind but can’t find her. It’s just empty. In the massacre scene 001 told eleven that the kids are not dead but still in his head. Papa also mentions how 001 consumes the people he kills. My theory is that Max’s consciousness/soul is in his head and if he’s defeated all the captured souls escapes. Since Max’s body is still intact her soul has a place to come back too, while the others can’t be saved because their bodies are completely destroyed.
so, exactly what he said?
@@briarose1234 If you go to his to his last stranger things videos from 1 and 4 days ago i wrote the exact same comment one of them has over 600 likes.
it's a good theory, but I think maybe Max might not come back-maybe. I say that because when she's trying to taunt Vecna to make him attack... she tells him to make her disappear and basically... that's what happens. her body is alive in a sense (I say this as she is breathing but isn't on life support) but she isn't "there"... and when Eleven looks for her in the void she's not there either despite El being able to locate anyone, anywhere with just a picture or image...
@@zeroswings2 max isn't "there" because she was consumed by vecna, so it's obvious she wouldn't be ther because she's inside vecna now.
@@isadorasandri6682 I'm aware of that... I just put it in different terms... like her taunting him was actually forshadowing...
Season 5 prediction: Just as the villain has our heroes on the ropes, ultimate victory within reach, a heavy fog rolls in. A silhouette slowly approaches as power chords begin to amp up. Could it be? Has he really returned? "Science is neat," Mr. Clarke says as he steps into full view, cracking his knuckles, "but I'm afraid it's not very forgiving."
LMAO!!! I hope they bring back Mr. Clarke I have been waiting for his return
Mr. Clarke is the key to all of this
I was waiting for a Mr. Clarke cameo this season but I would settle for one in S5
DRAWING STRANGER THINGS CHARACTERS... IT'S HERE ON THE CHANNEL !!!!!!!!
Mr. Clarke, Mr. Wheeler, and Murray showing up armed to the teeth. “Get away from our kids.”
The Duffers have said Will will be the central focus of season 5 and its going to basically go full circle to season 1. So i m thinking Vecna will go after Will to be his vessel ( and maybe be successful for a tiny bit) and will use Will’s past traumas and his feelings for Mike against him. Remember Mike basically told El that his life started on the day will went missing and will was right there to hear it. I ALSO don’t think they actually forgot his birthday and its part of the plot for season 5 . The whole Mike is the ‘heart’ thing could come in play with Mike being the one to save Will.
I agree i think he will use Max and possibly Eddie’s body as puppets.
That would be an awesome ending. If Mike saves Will, that would be beautiful. But somehow my little sad heart doubts it. I think Will is more likely going to die sacrificing himself to save all of his friends.
@@harvestmoon_autumnsky I think if they kill off any of the main kids it will be eleven
Didn't Mike, Dustin, and Lucas find El in the woods 1 day after Will disappeared?
DRAWING STRANGER THINGS CHARACTERS... IT'S HERE ON THE CHANNEL !!!!!!!!
@@wonderwall62 if you re-watch the confession scene you see will briefly at that part and he looks like a kicked puppy. So i think he will take it as Mike basically saying his started when Will missing even if it was like a few hours/day later.,
I really hope they won't be bringing dead characters back by releasing their souls or using time travel to undo the events of the show. That would really just ruin the darkness and tragicness that's a part of what makes the show so great. Though I would be fine (happy) with bringing back Max, because her body is still alive, so it wouldn't be too ridiculous
yeah, going back in time and preventing tragedies from ever happening has been done too many times. It's kinda the easy way out.
I don't think they will. I think Max's body was specifically saved by El so she could go back to it. We may see some consciousnesses freed (like Chrissy and the lab kids) but I don't think the Duffers will give us a fairy tale ending with all our favourites coming back.
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@Lamae Beolfag I’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree. Though I would like an ending that’s bitter in the way that some of the main characters are dead, but sweet in the way that some of them are alive, and the world is saved
Yeah those other 3 I don’t see coming back. Vecna literally crumpled their bodies. Souls don’t have a body to return to. If anything I could see like a final goodbye where the 3 souls along with the kids who he took long ago maybe group together and thank her for freeing them before they officially pass over into the next realm
I didn't believe the "Vecna is Eleven's father" theory until I heard someone explain the timeline.
Henry was born around 1947, and Teri was born 1951.
Teri took part in the MK Ultra project in 1969, when she was 18, and at some point around 1970 she became unknowingly pregnant.
The MK Ultra project was experimenting with mind control, and with one of the experiments, Teri could have unknowingly become a surrogate in Brenner's attempts to recreate Henry's powers. If this is the case, then it would explain how Eleven is much more powerful than the other numbers, because she directly shares DNA with Henry.
Dr. Brenner is trying to enhance Eleven's powers since he sees greatness in her, so why would he punish 001 so harshly for helping with this, if Brenner wasn't scared that 001 could have secretly revealed something else to her.
There’s a chance Papa was experimenting match-making:) Or.. May be the reason why Vecna got the chip in his neck is because he raped 11’s mom who’s a staff member. That’s why she was mumbling the rainbow room stuff when she was in psychosis. That’s why she was able to go into the lab before she got dragged out
“Papa can’t control you or me”. That’s why Henry picked 11 as favorite and planned to escape with her..
@@Zoro-IX it all make sense until it doesn't
Henry himself said that Dr. Brenner couldn't control him, that's why he tried to recreate him. My first thought was that all the kids in the lab are siblings. I also agree on the timeline. He could be Eleven's father.
Yeah, I'm thinking Eddie was such a break out character we will see him again in Season 5...perhaps as some kind of psychic warrior :P
Eddie's uncle will likely join the cause....maybe this is where Eddie comes back?
A bit weird Steve's bat bite injuries never had consequences... Seemed like significant injury although I guess we can learn the repercussions in Season 5
Alot more bats swarmed Eddie for a lot longer and he was gargling on his blood mist have had a bad kneck injury
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@@aarontempleton8047 agreed 100%... it's only about 4 bats (did anyone else notice the bats kinda look like spiders?) that attack Steve... hundreds swarm Eddie and quite a few use their tails to both choke him and hold him down while more than a couple start to feed on him... he got it a lot worse than Steve...
@@VULA your work looks really good. Could you draw Eddie playing in the upside down?
eddie is not coming back the duffer brothers confirmed it
I think that Eleven's healing powers are actually time travel based. When Max dies, we cut to an overhead shot of her spinning in a clockwise direction while the ticking of the clock plays in the background, yet when Eleven revives her we get an almost exact reverse of that shot which spins in an anticlockwise direction, so perhaps she managed to reverse some of the damage so that she wasn't as badly hurt, but could only isolate it in Max rather than reverse all the other events around them. This also ties back to her line about emotions making us all time travellers, and that way El can LITERALLY use positive emotions to turn back time
This is the best theory ive seen regarding the ending
@@ctumarwamal thank you! I'm pretty proud of it 😊
This is definitely the most interesting time travel idea but I think El restarted Max's heart with her powers. Like a defibrillator
@@AC-ze1nh but it wasnt her actual heart. she revived her on the mental plane not from the physical world
Yep,total reference to Superman when he flew around the planet and brought back Lois Lane.
I kind of hope they stay away from time traveling because it’s such a tricky plot device that can get messy real fast. I’m curious if they’ll explore the idea of pocket dimensions. I would love if we found out that the part of the upside down we see in Hawkins is a pocket dimension that was created the moment Will was taken. Perhaps that’s why time doesn’t exist there. It’s also kind of terrifying to think that all that horror is just a sliver of what the upside down truly is.
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Will is time traveller, he will become Dr. Brenner.
@@pi.log10 Holy shit. that would be like stealing DARK theme.
Maybe Henry’s mother had powers. She did know it was him causing the hallucinations and even had music on when Henry attacked and stopped the needle on the vinyl. She could have been playing it to stop him from attacking. Maybe she had powers and was also subject to Brenner experiments. Victor tells us what his dad did but he never tells us what his mom did
I thought he said he killed her because she wanted to send him away to a hospital because she some how knew he was the one responsible for the horrible stuff happening
@@lisamarie2786 yeah but what visions did he make her see. He said he made them both see things they had done
I like this theory. Upon rewatching the last part of episode 7, Henry's mother absolutely could have been the one to turn ON the music in the first place, in anticipation of Henry's actions, but then in the end, he was too powerful.
@@alexanderdumas- oh I see, yes that wasn't really explained was it . The duffers did say they was only showing their cards in this season so we will definitely get the full picture next season, I'm still a little confused on some things 🤣
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I actually wondered if Henry's DNA was used by Brenner to create all the kids after him. But the show probably wouldn't go that route but we'll see.
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Actually that’s what happened right. Henry said it himself. “When papa couldn’t control me he tried to recreate me” and that’s what project MKultra is. They introduce Henry’s DNA to the fetus and that’s how kids with special powers were born. They were isolated just after being born and raised up in the asylum or the lab. My theory is the mother somehow gets the power as well with the blood connection at the time of birth but it fades away somehow with time(since they brainwash the mother I guess) but with Terry Ives what happened was she started to remember that she had a baby and she goes back and then they brainwashes her so she’s not in a physically capable state so her mind is isolated thus she can use her powers that’s how she showed her memories to eleven when she tried to communicate. Other than that Terry can’t to anything with her telepathy power.
I thought the same thing. It makes sense. Otherwise why would they have taken 11 directly at birth? What would make them think she was special? Seems like they just used his DNA to create more kids.
@@rashmirathnayake_ well i think that terry ives and henry are the biological parents of eleven while rest of the kids were made by dna transfer. Remember terrys sister said that they took people like terry who were once drug addicts or had some mental problems because it was easier to manipulate the minds of such people. I think dr. Brenner tried to manipulated minds of the subjects like terry ives to give them some weak psychic powers and then made them concieve babies who had henrys dna. But henry and terry actually fell in love and had eleven and thats why henry was nice to eleven and wanted her to join him in his mission
@@rashmirathnayake_ I could see this being true except in the case of eleven. When Eleven’s mom was tested on with LSD no one knew she was pregnant until after the tests had begun so Eleven’s powers were either a side effect of the MKUltra tests or natural like Henry’s. I’m not sure about the other kids tho.
Will definitely still has an important role to play. Rewatching season 1, it feels like he was intentionally left alive for a reason. I think it could even be possible that Will may have some sort of latent abilities and Vecna sees him as a suitable vessel to allow himself to exist outside of the upside down. And now would be the perfect time with Vecna no longer having a physical body.
I honestly think the upside down being stuck in 1983 isn’t going to be used as a way to change time but as a way to get things from Hawkins that are no longer there. Maybe from Brenner’s lab or something from the school like the big radio mr. Clark had.
Wow that’s good
Father even specifically tells El, "What Henry kills, he consumes."
maybe will has always known from the start he is the one that will end the upside-down, and he keeps wanting to play with his friends etc cuz he knows he is gona loose it all
Ooo this fits so well, damn…
I'm in the camp that really hopes Will turns out to have powers of his own. Right now it kind of seems like Will somehow brought a copy of the entire town of Hawkins into the upside down with him, and I don't see how Vecna could have done that if he can't even open a gate without borrowing powers from Eleven. So it makes me wonder if Will somehow brought all the buildings into the Upside Down and what else he can do.
I like this theory a lot. If it ended up being true, I wonder if the Duffer brothers didn't have this idea in season 1. There's just some small continuation problems. Like one that immediately comes to my mind is when Joyce's first phone was fried and she purchased another one. If Will was able to communicate with her through that (it wasn't in their home when he disappeared) how come Nancy's guns weren't in her room? Does it just have to do with electricity in some way, not the object itself, since Dustin et al. were still able to communicate with the others in the Upside Down with the Lite Brite that wasn't technically there. So what role does electricity have, then? 001 was struck by lightening when he was banished to the Upside Down. I feel theres a connection there, if your theory proves true.
@@CowCowMeows the reason why Nancy’s guns weren’t in the room was because they weren’t there when the Upside down was created in 1983.
When i first watched the finale, I thought piggyback could have also meant Vecna living rent free in Max's mind
nice, yeah could mean that tbh
And Will
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vecna: yay rent free
mind flayer and demogorgon and demodog and vines: FBI OPEN UP PAY YOUR RENTS NOW OR GO TO JAIL!!!
The 80's metal band Iron Maiden had an undead zombie mascot named "Eddie" and I think that Eddie will return as such a type of creature who will assist the gang. That's too much of an 80's metal call back for the Duffer Brothers to resist.
Oh my god.
Yaaaaaaaasssssss!!!!!!! 🎯🤟
I think El's sister Kali will come back to help out in season 5 as she is the only other kid that survived from the lab.
I didn't like that storyline but I'm really hoping they do bring her back. She has an incredible gift that can be very useful and this second go round, Vecna will be brutal. I mean we've already seen what he did to Max and how he wanted El to watch but now that they've hurt him? He's pissed off and El will need some help. Also, if they never brought her back, then that would be a huge plot hole and one that I really don't think the duffer brothers would neglect.
@@blehhhhh655 yes i agree! I think bringing 8 back will make that storyline come full circle. I think that the whole 008 story from season 2 was weird and kinda sucked but that it won't be in vain if they bring her back for season 5.
I really hope not. Kali and her group of weirdos was pure cringe.
ThT story line needs thrown out it didn’t even make sense it was the worst season. Season 4 brought everyone back from the failed season 3
Okay, but what if Kali was back this season? What if she was using her powers to manipulate the faction of the military that was going after Eleven? She could be the BAMF general dude in disguise targeting Owen and his people in an effort to find and kill Brenner. It’s out there but I don’t think Argyle’s pizza van could have escaped the government posse if El was their real target.
Since they've already said there is going to be a timeskip I think her bones will be healed up by the time season 5 starts, although she'll still be brain dead and possibly blind. My theory is that even Vecna doesn't know where she's at, because she technically wasn't fully absorbed- the process was stopped right before she "died". I think she's hidden in his mindscape, or trapped somewhere else, with no way back to her body. Those that Vecna absorbs seem to be prisoners but my guess is Max will be free, but has to remain hidden. She will eventually find others and try to free them. One other theory is that she will find the other numbers (the 9 that were absorbed). This equals 20 total. In the beginning of Season 4 it took a roll of 20 to defeat the DnD Vecna.
would be a nice parallel if max is hiding out in vecna's mindscape the way will was hiding from the demogorgon in the upside down in season 1.
3 headed monster could be because Vecna had 3 names: Vecna, Henry, and One.
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Since it was the 80's and we all had VHS tapes and Robin couldn't nail down a name for Vecna I've been seeing VH1 circulate as his name for Vecna Henry 001 =VH1 and I think the duffers should use it. I like it.
No. It’s Vecna, the Mindflayer and the Giant gaping mouth.
@@shamakodonae no its mind flayer vecna and demogorgon
This mahfakaka spitting 👏🏾🤌🏾
I think Max is living rent-free inside Vecna's mind because of what 11 did to her. She will end up being his downfall..He called her weak and that will bite him in the ass next season. Max will probably free the others that have been consumed by him and they will team up and try and open a door in his mind to bring 11 back in to destroy him.
this is a great theory
@@neoxfreeworld It is, but they still cant come back fully alive, only max can
I believe that Max's letters won't get forgotten. She now might be trapped in Vecna's mind, and i believe that Lucas will read her the letter she left him and it will bring her back memories to help her escape off Vecna's mind and wake up from the coma
Imagine if 001 turns out to be controlled by the mindflayer all along and was actually not originally evil. I think Elle will get into Vecnas head and find a child version of Henry that has been trapped away and it may take both of their powers and a sacrifice from Henry to win the battle.
nah
The Mind Flayer isnt the Big Bad, Vecna made the mind flayer what it was.He is more powerful than the flayer
@@quzar3291 That is dumb story telling. The mind Flayer actually controlling 001 makes more sense
Lol ngl I really think it's 011
🤣🤣
But that device that was in Henry if you look close it was glowing red like the upside down so I guess it's the particles that make the mind flayer.
Brenner tells 011 I had you looking for the soviets you're mad at yourself for realsing Henry from his prison.
So maybe youre right but that was a evil lil mahfakaka though 🤣😑
@@quzar3291 it goes to show that human is always the monster, and destroy everything
Even in other dimensions
Henry made the Mind Flayer into what it is lol
He didn't have to be "hitting the town and getting women pregnant".. The theory is that he was used to impregnate women in the lab, who participated in the experiments there (which El's Mom did..) with Henry's DNA in order to try to replicate his powers. It's definitely not a far fetched idea considering that's what Brenner's entire goal was...
Makes a lot of sense, this could be the case. But they show the relationship like a Big brother - sister, or mentor
@@daasanchez they do. I don't have any concrete feelings on whether or not it's true.
He wasn’t born with his powers tho, he developed them. It’s not his dna
@@MD_-ub8rx how do you know? 🤔 Just because he never overtly showed powers before doesn't mean he didn't have them, it means he didn't use them because he had no reason to try not knowing about them.
@@MD_-ub8rx He was born with them because he killed his Mom and Sister and pinned it on his Dad, Victor Creel, before he ever met "Papa" and became "001".
My Fan Theory: if Eddie is in fact brought back somehow, he is attached to the upside down becoming the guardian of the Upside Down. This would bring his D&D name to life, Eddie the Banished. He would be banished to the upside down, alive and guarding it against future monsters.
This is the only Eddie coming back theory that makes sense and would be poetic but I don't know how I'd feel about such a beloved character stuck in hell basically.
My theory is that Eddie never died in the first place. When he was attacked by the bats Dustin left him because obviously Dustin didn’t want to “Die” as well. It’s possible that the bats aren’t lethal because Steve survived the attack. They left Eddie there because of course they wouldn’t drag the supposed “Dead” body up into the real world. In my opinion I think that in Stranger Things, no one is really dead unless you can see there dead body which we didn’t see for Eddie. Examples are Hopper and Brenner.
Eddie being used to haunt Dustin is so cruel and dark. I love it!
I think El will fly in S5 and not only that, she'll manipulate time as well. Seems like that's what she was doing to save Max; she rewound time, forshadowed by the counter-clockwise camera movement when she was bringing Max back to life and also the somewhat clock noise in the score. And then later on, in the cabin, El finds the coke bottle and spins it clockwise and the scene cuts to Max in the hospital. All the spinning when they show El and Max makes me believe she'll manipulate time to save everyone.
I thought what she did with Max was restarting her heart with her powers, the same way she can make someone piss themself or explode their brain, she made Max’s heart beat again
@@anatoldenevers237 of course that's possible, even the likely answer. But there's just a lot of foreshadowing of time manipulation and story wise, it feels like they're trying to go for something bigger than what we've seen before.
@@nsan48 They're certainly going bigger, they seem to go bigger every season, but I really hope it's not time travel. Time travel I feel like is generally pretty hard to do without messing things up and creating holes in the story. Not impossible to do it right, but I personally hope they don't go that way.
I don’t know why you all think Vecna “lost” his physical form. If that was the case, his body would’ve still been in the spot he landed on or there would’ve been a pile of ashes or something like that.
I thought since Venca "Body" didn't get created until he came into the Upsidedown and controlled the Mind Fryer. So wouldn't his body turn into steam like the other monster from there, so Vecna could be in someone or steam but his body disengraded outside the house
@@distinguishedallureproduct879 The Mind Fryer is so spooky
@@distinguishedallureproduct879 I think your “steam” idea only counts for things that originated FROM the Upside Down, Vecna is not from the Upside Down, he’s a human that got sent there. By your logic, Eddie should’ve turned to dust as well.
@@ellisbud222 you are correct,vecna didn’t lose his physical body.plus:will said that he is alive and hurt so if he lives than how come he is hurt if he lost his physical body?
@@ellisbud222 Didn't Hopper and the Russian team take out some demons with fire and they turned to steam, I am not saying One (Henry) isn't Vecna, but the body he transformed is, is apart of the Hive mind meaning of course that disappears. But now that Henry(Vecna) is a cloud he can be everywhere and anyone
I like the theory that Eddie is Kas in this story. I need the man to be brought back😭
Kas has defeated Vecna before aka sent him to upside-down. Kas is El.
I got a feeling that Vecna will use both Max and Eddie as a vessel... I know Eddie is supposedly dead but stranger things have happened on this show
- slow clap -
and also there's the theory that eddie will be kas
@@neonkrypton that one's fire tbh
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@@neonkrypton Pretty sure Eleven already basically did the Kas role when Vecna massacred the lab though. She helped him by removing the device Brenner had in his neck, but then she turned on him after he revealed himself to be a total psychopath, defeating him but not quite managing to kill him.
Oh that scene with max being killed literally brought me to tears... And when she was brought back by Eleven I had a thought that maybe Eleven could have the power to bring the psychic kids and Eddie back somehow
Nah. They’re long gone. What she did was basically use her particular powers to re-pump Max’s heart. That’s why she’s still in a coma and maybe no brain activity
Eddie Munson is a mfin legend!! Most metal ever!!🤘😢
He is the real MVP. Frfr
Dustin was the only one who saw Eddie die. There was definitely a period of time where Dustin was away from Eddie. It could be that all of Eddie's death was vecna making Dustin see things like vecna did with everyone else. Playing on Dustin's guilt for leaving Eddie behind.
No. He was a bit busy at that time. In no way did he split his focus from Eleven just to mess with Dustin's mind. He had Max right there, he just had to get through Eleven to finally crack the barrier between dimensions.
I think the upside down has been a premonition of what’s to come the entire time. When they went to look for the gun in Nancy’s room she said “this is from 2 years ago, the diary entries stop the day Will went missing” that day sealed the fate for Hawkins (the dark clouds, the red lightning, the particles floating everywhere as we now see in the end of season 4) and as Vecna said “nothing you can do can stop what’s to come”
I’m gonna have to rewatch now from the beginning to Season 1. There’s so much that I get confused. Like I forgot about that whole bit about it being 1983 when they got there.
@@rumham7466 yeah it’s in the 4th season when they realize it’s from 2 years ago. And just think, when Vecna gets there first it doesn’t look anything like hawkins
Now that Vecna's been able to open up such a massive gate in the middleof Hawkins, expect the Upsidedown to try to gradually merge with Hawkins itself.
During the timejump Hawkins will gradually resemble the Upsidedown version more & more...all the while Vecna is preparing his army of monsters intending to fully emerge out of the gate & into Hawkins for a full out invasion!
Expecting something similar to Stephen King's The Mist where the entire town is hiding from the permanent mist in which monsters attack & kill anyone it comes into contact with. While the locals are hiding in terror, the US soldiers are battling it out with the monsters, & the party all split up into groups, each of whom playing their part of the same plan....be it in Hawkins, the Upsidedown, Vecna's mindlair, etc.
This show has defiantly become so much better than I originally imagined it to be when season 1 finished. Season 4 in my opinion has set the stage for at least 3 more seasons if they wanted, I am a little upset that they are ending the show with just five seasons' knowing that it can go on for allot longer. Tv has lacked on good shows for that past several years so it's always hard seeing a good show go away but I hope season 5 will be as good as we hope and now a slow disappointment due to rushing the end of the show and starting a spin off series that I believe won't last long.
I HAVE A THEORY!!!!!!
Eddie got 'killed' by bats, right? The Kas theory says that like Kas in D&D, Eddie will turn into a vampire and become Vecna's right hand man and eventually turn on him and kill him. In D&D, vampires are created when another vampire 'drains the life out of a living creature'. There are many different types of vapires in D&D, including Swarmform Vampires, which have the ability to assume the form of a swarm of creatures, so I'm thinking that the swarm of bats that attacked Eddie were actually a Swarmform Vampire, and that would lead onto the Kas theory. It would also explain how the Kas theory applies to Eddie and not to Steve; Steve also got bitten by bats, but there were only a few, unlike the swarm that attacked Eddie. Idk, I think the Duffer brothers based Eddie's character on Kas, so it would make sense.
ehhh demobats is separate cretures in a hive mind man...
Mike will overpower everyone with is leadership skill in season 5 reason
He always play winning card like trusting elven in season 1
In season 2 he was the one who spotted Minflayer weak spot in tunnel
In season 3 he always warned elven do not to overuse your power ( when Minflayer arrived she drained her all power) and they lost
In season 4 he got love role which empowered to defeat vecna
His love is what powered Eleven up. He’s her lightning rod.
I'm glad not only did they finally call back Will and his little piece of Upside-Down shrapnel that's still stuck in him, but that the show creators more or less flat out said that he's gonna be a major part of the final season.
The show gave us its 1st taste of The Upside-down in the 1st season, even 1st episode (right?) with Will going missing. So it's good for him to come full circle.
From a personal fan of the show standpoint, I thought the kid who played Will gave an AMAZING, emotional, raw, realistic/believable acting performance in that 2nd season, and I, like many others apparently, thought he was severely underutilized these last 2 seasons, so im looking forward to the little guy put on an acting clinic as a vital part of the end of the show.... also, if they REALLY wanna do right by Will, they need to finally cut that damn full bodied, but still worse, Moe Howard haircut off him 😆 🤣 😂
It was more distracting to me than his growth and "puberty voice".... shit, more than ALL the kids growth and awkward puberty points lol....
That's the problem with child actors; most of em get just as awkward as the rest of us once we hit 14, 16 years old 😅
Well...all yall... not me... I was awesome, handsome, and all man, from the moment I pimp walked out my mama's twat, riggt up until today when I went for my 1st cancer treatment--- all awesome, all the time, for all time ⏲️ 👍 😀 👏 💙 ❤️ ⏲️ 👍 random emoji parade
Would love to see Eddie "reanimated" but as a good zombie to fight back against Vecna, further cementing the Iron Maiden reference his character has made
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I love the Eddie as Kas theory. Very far fetched but I still like it
I think el is going to die next season since it is the final season for the series. If el and vecna are one in the same in one way then both have to die in order for everything to end.
Yes. Also maybe Will and Dustin or Steve. They don't have to hold back anymore since it's the final season
@@munkayttaja6913 They don't have to hold back, but that doesn't mean they won't care about them anymore. It'll likely be only a few main characters dying. Not the whole cast. That's just disappointing.
@@notyepdranel961 I literally named 2 main characters on top of Eleven. Dustin or Steve bc they are the fan favorites so other may die and also Steve was supposed to die already but they kept him bc fans liked him. Dustin is now traumatized and feels guilty for Eddie's death so it makes him a Vecna target. And Will bc of his connection with the upside down
@@munkayttaja6913 yeah. Major character deaths are important to the story. Since it’s the last season some of them are bound to die. Either Mike dies and El finds great power in sorrow or El dies at the great battle. Either way a few characters should die. Don’t hate me now but Max should’ve died this season. Giving Caleb’s performance much credit and all our emotions a value. I love her but if her character or the state that she’s now In doesn’t hold a candle to next season it just proves that Duffer brothers doesn’t have the balls to kill of major characters.
@@rashmirathnayake_ I agree that Max should have died. I was very dissapointed that she didn't. Season 5 needs major deaths. El for sure. Then a big fan favorite, either Steve or Dustin. Having 2 -main characters die in the final season would be big enough rly. Then maybe 1 side character, Erica, Johnathan or Robin (if they count as side characters)
Will's painting was him telling Mike that Seto Kaiba is going to summon his Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon
the only reason Max will be able to come back to her body is because she’s got a heart beating body, all the other victims of the upside down will most likely be decomposed, buried in the ground etc so there’s no way any of them could come back except from Max
I can see time travel happening with Cher's "If I Could Turn Back Time" and the Stranger Things fandom absolutely eating that up
LOOOOOOL 😂😂😂
Lmaooooo
I always felt that Will might have latent psychic abilities. Also “Will” in RPGs typically is a stat that determines strength of the mind and defense vs curses and ailments.
Vecna taking him over so that he can physically invade the real world is a possibility! Might be tough for them to fight their own friend.
This season had one of Jason's friend was Andy. Andy is the name of the kid in "Child's Play" and Chucky wanted to transfer his soul to Andy's body. I can definitely see that theory of will being vecnas vessel happening in season 5.
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I wouldn't mind a stupid retcon to bring back Eddie because he was so great and I want more of him
DRAWING STRANGER THINGS CHARACTERS... IT'S HERE ON THE CHANNEL !!!!!!!!
The biggest thing in media for a lot of situations is that "If and when you see a character die, then they are dead". Now of course writers will botch this and show a death but then be like "OH NO THEY LIVE" but often in a lot of pieces if someone falls off a cliff but the body isn't shown, then there's room to write in that they were able to save themselves. However, I truly feel characters like Brenner and Eddie (as much as I love him) are fully dead. Now this video did have me run across an idea that since Vecna was not fully able to perform the ritual on Max, he was able to obtain her "soul" like he has with his other victims (hence why I don't really think there's any saving for those characters, they also showed their the empty corpses left behind).
A lot of more discussions I've had with friends is how there's so much that can be seen through D&D which was talked about in the video although I had it more connected to the idea that the Shadow behaves more like an Elder Brain comparison and not Tiamat, but I didn't ever think about the painting. This season has brought to us different appearances of the upside down. When we were talking about it all, we went to the concept of different planes of existence since color isn't just a coincidence. Max is stuck in Limbo, the reverse Upside Down may refer to the Negative Energy Plane, and the red where the Creel house is is The Nine Hells. Stuck on thinking if where Henry first landed was Outland or my original thought of The Gray Wastes. Vecna is able to travel across multiverses which is why he's able to basically be between all these areas. I had called prior that Vecna was calling the shots early in his reveal because as monsters, the Mind Flayer is technically stat wise a weaker monster than Vecna. Now that you brought Tiamat into this, I'm now got my brain running all cylinders going back to stats.
There was also the drop from IGN that season 5 will have a kinda "Return of the King-ish" ending which has me believing now some things that I didn't before but I believe how it concludes still goes the route I believe it would. As long as it's not written like a shitty "FRIENDSHIP IS POWERFUL AGAINST THE EVIL" because I might throw up lol.
So far Benny, Barb, Bob, Billy, Bensen & Brenner have all died, so I’m worries for Bauman, Buckley and Byers in the final season.
DRAWING STRANGER THINGS CHARACTERS... IT'S HERE ON THE CHANNEL !!!!!!!!
I genuinely hopefully see Eddie again I absolutely fell in love with his character! BEST METAL EVERRRRR
What I can’t explain is how the doctors would have any clue that Max’s heart stopped and for precisely 1 minute
@Ciaran Eley I thought it was because lucas told them that but they said they dont know how that happened lol
I think we're going to see Henry start loosing control next season. Control over the Upside Down and its creatures, control over the consciousnesses he's stolen, control over himself possibly. If he could steal El's powers in S3, maybe El can shut off his.
I think this is going to be a group effort with a psychic attack led by Max (perhaps with an assist from Chrissy, the lab kids, and Virginia Creele) and El with her warriors in Hawkins (Hop and the others). But we shall see! I just hope they don't do a cliche sacrifice scene. We've already had a few of those.
I think there is more history relating to the house. Whoever is the original owner of the house might be responsible for every thing that happens.
I wouldn’t consider any of the novels or comics canon at this point. El’s biological father may very well be a guy Terry dated in college that Brenner had sent to be killed in Vietnam to get him out of the way. But Suspicious Minds does have Brenner going to Hawkins until 1969 and Kali was the only test subject with powers. Season 4 shows Brenner there by 1959. It also shows that there were at least 17 test subjects with powers. There’s also a comic where 006 is a redheaded girl that predicts lottery numbers. In the show, 006 is a black boy. So the novels and comics are greats reads, but full of details that were contradicted in the last two seasons.
Love your breakdowns and really really really 'bad puns'. haha Season 4 of 'Stranger Things' was awesome. I believe Will will become possessed by Vecna for most of season 5.
We got the clues of how they are going to defeat Henry/Venca/One in the DnD campaign. The Duffer Brothers like using it as a means of foreshadowing, so it will be a sneak attack (perhaps from Max in his mind?). Or I think he'll kill El and she'll take over from inside his mind. Either way can't wait to see how this will play out! Hypothesis time!!!!
That’s what they tried doing in this season though, so I’m not sure that it was foreshadowing both the end of 4 and also 5
@@samplautz5586 agreed
DRAWING STRANGER THINGS CHARACTERS... IT'S HERE ON THE CHANNEL !!!!!!!!
Hmmm... Max is very strong-willed but I don't think she will get abilities... she just learns to use her own best memories to keep Vecna at bay... she may indeed provide some kind of assistance in the final battle but I can't see that as very likeky... I say this because Vecna does not fully consume her as he does his other victims... so it's not likely she's a part of him in any appreciable way... and while she is brought back to life... it's not really the same as being fully alive. her body 'lives' but Max isn't really "there" as is evidenced by El not being able to locate 'her' in the void despite being right next to her body in the hospital...
I was absolutely invested with the amazing and gripping writing this season and could probably my favourite after S1. I hope this is only the beginning of an epic saga rather than just being a trilogy.
Respect to the writers and showrunners for doing what so many shows fail to challenge - actually presenting a risk to a core character that pushes the plot along. Too many projects layer the ham on to entice viewers to care while highlighting all the ways that “they’ll be okay”.
Hoping this won’t be dropped going into the final season and the resolution will carry the weight it’s been given thus far.
I am sure that Stranger Things will end with every kid that had superpowers being dead, because they´ll find out that is the only way to stop Vecna. That means El is forced to make a difficult decision and sacrifices herself for her friends.
DRAWING STRANGER THINGS CHARACTERS... IT'S HERE ON THE CHANNEL !!!!!!!!
Don't forget El's sister Kali.. I think she may have a part to play yet, with her tricks on the mind.
DRAWING STRANGER THINGS CHARACTERS... IT'S HERE ON THE CHANNEL !!!!!!!!
This show is like the best thing on the whole Netflix platform. Blew Kenobi out of the water! So good.
DRAWING STRANGER THINGS CHARACTERS... IT'S HERE ON THE CHANNEL !!!!!!!!
Love the video. I cried through out the whole season it was great. Can’t wait for season 5!
Heck yeah! Woot woot Rob Fury here. Going to text ya
I think that Will's feelings towards Mike being highlighted in season 4 is foreshadowing for Will's ultimate sacrifice. Since we've already established that Mike and Eleven have feelings for each other and Will's (romantic?) feelings for Mike are not mutual, I believe that Eleven will actually survive season 5 because of Will sacrificing himself for Mike's happiness. The connection he has with Vecna and the Upside Down hints his major role in season 5 for Will who although was not highlighted in season 4, is very much a main character in this series.
Other than that I believe that Dustin and Eddie's relationship will not be exploited by Vecna just like Max and Billy's did, due to the wholesomeness of Dustin+Eddie compared to the pre existing drama of Max+Billy.
I think the final season will see the loses of Max and Will to defeat Vecna and also Steve and Murray during the overall fight. Would also not be surprised if Nancy is one of the major character loses of the final season!
Great video thanks for the content!
DRAWING STRANGER THINGS CHARACTERS... IT'S HERE ON THE CHANNEL !!!!!!!!
I love you man just the right levels of hypothesis humor and analysis.thank you.
I think El will sacrifice her own existence to travel back far enough to kill young Henry before Brenner creates the Hawkins Project. This would erase her and all the other child prisoners from ever existing. But quick question... Do we know is El's mother was pregnant before she participated in Brenner's trial? I can't remember. If that's the case, imagine an alternative world where El is just a normal girl, living a happy life with her mother. This would be an ending I could get behind.
And I've said this before, but if they go the time travel route, I would love the final scene to be of Eddie and the kids at Hellfire Club playing D&D, where they battle imaginary versions of Vecna, the Demogorgon, and The Mind Flayer.
Ppl say no & she was a serrogate(spell check)
Great vid! I was looking forward to Theory Time! 🤨
Eleven will infiltrate Vecna's mind and free Max's consciousness and the souls of other victims. He will then grow desperate and try to consume the Shadow monster. He fails and it is revealed that Vecna was allowed to stick around until the shadow consumed him and moved into Will, it's desired host. Vecna dies realizing that just like Papa, he tried to control something stronger than himself and failed, releasing it into the world. He recalls calling papa a weak human, and realizes he was also a weak human compared to the Flayer.
Nah sounds pretty goofy
@@Sasso-pf1mo Goofy is believing Vecna to be the final villain. He basically worships the Mind Flayer so it was shaped into a spider like form. Watch Vecna be flayed since the beginning and only misled people to think he was the leader. Vecna is a good villain but it would be lame if he was the final boss. His power just doesn't seem as threatening as a final boss should be.
@@joetyrant4713 Duffer brothers so easily could’ve used some cgi monster if it ain’t the big boss around here. Mind flayer maybe more powerful than henry. Hell yeah it should be cause henry was just a man who happens to step into a whole new world. But he had some powers within himself to harness a super powerful creature in the new world to do his bidding. But henry was the one with a motive. He was the one who wanted to make a brand new world punish the guilty punish the weak and so on. The mind flayer definitely didn’t want that it wasn’t aware at all. I think we should think of the mind flayer as a object more than a creature. Henry somehow acquired it when he saw it, it helped him to control the other creatures like demogorgens, demodogs, demobats and what’s there in that world since it’s a hive mind. When you acquire the brain you get everything that the brain controls. If vecna is defeated, and the gates are closed somehow the mind flayer cannot affect the physical world as we already saw in S2,3. It is useless.
@@rashmirathnayake_ How do you know the Shadow particles had no awareness at all? All we got was a tiny clip of it shaping into the Flayer form that we know. I think people might be assuming too much here.
@@joetyrant4713 I’m not talking about the tiny clip we got in S4E9 I’m talking about the story they built about the mind flayer from the beginning. We all thought the mind flayer was the big boss right? Ok so we also saw in S2 all the demodogs fell dead just when El closed the gate. So that means when there is no gate, the mind flayer cannot reach our world. Right? And all the creatures even a dust particle from the UD which is in our world is powerless. Guess who had the power to reach the world even there is no gate was open…..Henry. Boom 💥 Since gates have been opened and closed in Hawkins the veil between time and space is very thin around Hawkins that’s why Russians sought out lands in Hawkins to build a gate which was explained in S3. Maybe because of this particular reason, henry was able to get into some teens heads and kill them to open his own gates. Once the gates are open he can very easily use the mind flayer to attack our world too. Who’s more powerful now!! Most of us are reaching to conclusions that henry is more powerful not because the mind flayer is not powerful. Just like I said, mind flayer maybe powerful than henry but it doesn’t matter damn it. Henry is the missing piece in this TV series and it was told like a hundred times over. In episode 7, the Nancy gang themselves told that. Vecna/Henry/001 was the villain all along. Even Will said that. I don’t know if you want to believe this supernatural creature from UD is the main villain here but I think we all will stick to the storyline while you can stick to yours. No offense!
Awesome! Love these vids
If the bat poison paralyzes people, why is Steve not paralyzed?
Right?! And he keeps talking about Vecna not having a physical body when we all saw he walked away since the body was no longer where it landed, even Will mentions it.
How do you know that the bats poison is paralysing?
6:45 no that can’t explain it cause she got her abilities from her mother cause in season 2 when eleven found her mom and her mom was trying to comunitcate with her and the lights were flashing eleven went back to her mom and she had a nose bleed like eleven when she uses her powers
I think Eleven trying to bring back Max inadvertently allowed Vecna to piggyback into Maxs mind where he'll recoup.
in the end I don't think El will kill Vecna outright, more like take his place and it really seems like Vecna can only be hurt/killed by a completely new plan/method. if it fails he adapts and it'll never work again
Thanks for the info
I think El needs 008 to help close the gates. 008 and Vecna has the same powers. Just an idea
They don’t have the same powers 8 can only create illusions and might have mild psychic powers(I don’t remember) they all seem non lethal unless they actually crash a car. Vecna torments and kills people and has both telekinetic and telepathic powers.
@@FullMetalB …yes, because that is what was bad about it…her powers…
Wait…didn’t I just respond to you in another comment? Stop trolling, dude.
@@FullMetalB Well it's not about "allowed," no one is stopping you, but yes, actually, it is less reasonable to comment more than once when it's just to say the same, unconstructive, bitter things. That's a real troll move.
And you said Vecna was 8 turned up to 11...what could that possibly be referring to other than similar powers? (I also just thought "powers" because that was what the comment you're responding to was about) What else is similar? Vecna didn't start a gang with some punk kids, Vecna's not an anti-establishment anti-hero, he's a straight up villain, The only thing similar about 1 and 8's backstories are that they were in Brenner's facility at all. What's similar?
Also, I don't even think 8's backstory is what people didn't like either, anyway. The issues were, I believe, more relating to 11's arc, as well as just kind of not feeling the new characters in general. 8's powers and backstory I didn't think were considered particularly bad in and of themselves at all, it was more just "Who the hell is this person, and why do we care right now?" Vecna has a whole season arc and is very important. We very much care about who Vecna is and what his deal is. It's an entirely different context.
Or when vecna was on fire, he may be turning back into his human form and his hand is getting more human-like when he was fighting eleven in the finale so it suggests that he turns back into his human form when he gets weaker
As much as I would love to see Eddie back, he should stay dead. As a storyteller I personally love seeing the stakes being raised to where a character dies. Having that character come back cheapens the story to me. With that said…bring Max back! 😤
yeah i was actually sort of disappointed that they made it seem like they were going to have the stones to kill max only to flinch and miraculously bring her back.
My wishlist for season 5
- See Eight and the gang come back to the show and join the gang in the alliance to fight against the monsters in the upside down.
- See some resolution to Eleven’s mom, maybe eleven could trigger her new ability to revive her memories, giving more history to Eleven’s history, and could also help her get some insight on how to control that abilities to help regain Max’s consciousness.
- Lastly, since the Duffer brothers mentioned Will be a central focus of the next season. I hope to see him have some abilities, could possibly link his abilities to open and close portals to the upside down. Which explains why he could enter the upside down all the from the beginning of season 1. Also will be nice for the writers to give him an actual love interest to join the gang. The falling in love with the straight best friend, Mike, plot is so cliche, and it’s time to move past that.
fam I don't think Mike is exactly "straight."
I think id be disappointed if they use time travel to undo everything, it's been done too often!
I love the vid!
The upside down always existed and will always exist. But to end its connection with the real world, Vecna has to die cause he's the one controlling the creatures. The particles had their own powers i guess and Vecna just gave them a shape and took over them. And because El created the doorway, she might have to die or lose her powers forever so that there's no other way to re open the doorway.
El revived Max's body out of desperation so her body is still alive but her consciousness her soul is consumed by Vecna like his other victims. And he's probably using them to heal himself cause Will said he's hurting. Max still has her body unlike other victims. So her soul can come back to her body. But she'll still need time to recover and maybe El will be able to see into her mind then.
Duffers said S5 will have the original pairings. So it's El Mike Lucas and Dustin working together again to save Max and Will. Because Will is going to be the host again. He definitely has connection with Vecna. And he's lonely and insecure. Easy victim. Vecna will surely make him think negative about his loved ones. He'll be forced to do more evil things this time. And it'll be Will against El.
Mike and his family is in danger too. He can die if what Nancy saw is actually the future. If that happens El might save him like she did with Max.
El is dying however I look at it. But I'm not the writer so...
DRAWING STRANGER THINGS CHARACTERS... IT'S HERE ON THE CHANNEL !!!!!!!!
Thats True the upside down wasnt created by Henry/Vecna/One, it always existed as a realm
Henry just controlled everything in there and made them do his bidding.
💯 agree. I believe El will/should die at the ultimate battle against vecna. Otherwise there’s no point of defeating vecna and keeping a all powerful girl alive cause it’s always about balace of the nature. And Jamie said their numbers 001 and 011 in greek are alpha and omega which foreshadows light and dark. Where one is darkness and eleven is light I guess.
3:10 "Their bodies are also strung up in Vecna's home". No, that's his mind/mindscape. We saw Steve, Nancy, and Robin set him on fire in his home, an intact building in the Upside Down, where the heroes had to creep over vines that eventually pinned them to the walls. It was an undamaged building, in the Upside Down version of Hawkins. The place where max escapes from him is his *mind*. Note that the sky is bright red, and his house there is in pieces, with the door floating in the air.
Those character's bodies were probably buried by their families. The corpses we see tied to stalagmites are are Vecna's mind.
a time jump has been confirmed for season 5 by the Duffers! It’ll nicely allow for some loose ends from s4 to be tied up. I think we will start season 5 in a more dystopian setting, most importantly, resolving the shtty military side plot from this season. Max will now have been in her coma for 1-2 years, hopper and Joyce could have a baby, Nancy and Steve could be together- increasing the stakes
Nancy becoming a Sarah Conor’s type of character would be an amazing nod to the 90s era. Hopefully her affinity for sawed off shotguns is a bit of foreshadowing.
Sounds stupid🤣. All of this stuff just suddenly happening without us knowning what had happened in that huge ass time and the characters just sitting there for 2 years like Hawkins wasn't being destroyed.
That subliminal "Will" joke 1:50 😂😂😂
The gate that opened in Eddie's trailer was on the ceiling. What if they destroyed the the whole trailer into little pieces, would that get rid of the gate?
I think the part holding the Gate will kindda fly like, Frozen in Time and Space or something.
Duffer brothers unfortunately commfirmed Eddie is not coming back…😢
I'm still a bit torn between Vecna being the overall big bad, I have definitely enjoyed this season, its been amazing, though I guess I just thought the mind flayer would come into this more.
However! Theory time, theory time, theory time...
The mind flayers 'particles' were there already along with the Demogorgon, so it's possible it is an entity in of itself, it's just Vecna corrupted this new dimension with his hatred. This would come into play with how emotions play a huge part in this series...an example of how this could of happened is how the upside down lightning is now red, whereas when he's first there it looks more yellow/orange
Dude…awesomeness totally this hypothesis vid! 🤣🤣
Possibly there will be a time travel thing as Steve and robin discuss about the back to future movie in season 3. 😜
There is still a gap in between who Elle's biological father is. Maybe Elle may actually be a half sibling to Henry. Vecna says they are "alike" in several scenes. Victor (Henry's father) has a vision when under Henry's spell showed a burning baby. Theres some kind of significance.
OK I have a theory of my own that may blow your minds.
What if there are multiple upside downs? Vecna has his personal place that takes on the shape of his childhood home and has a red background. However the upside down we are familiar with resembles Hawkins the day Will went missing. What if the darker blue upside down was shaped to fit Will? What if the mindflayer didn't like being controlled by Vecna so it sought out Will to defeat him?
Also if Vecna's realm is in the present and Will's realm is stuck in the past, then Vecna already knew he was going to succeed as it already happened. In the upside down Vecna exist both in past and present.
In order to defeat Vecna, I believe Vecna will have to be drawn out into the real world or has to be forever sealed in his own realm. Being sealed away forever would not deal with the mindflayer, but that's where Will comes in.
If the mindflayer is like a virus and it's cut off from Vecna, all that remains is Will. If Will dies and Eleven seals up all the gates the mindflayer will die and Hawkins will be forever saved.
I low key agree with you & was just thinking what would you rather do face Henry in the real world or the upside down?
@@ghostsauce2418 if the upside-down is my own mind, then I'd rather face Vecna there, as that is where I'd be strongest. However, that is also where Vencna is strongest. I think it may be like Nightmare on Elm Street: Dream Warriors, but in the case of stranger things you have 11 and Will who I believe both have powers to rival Vecna's
There is only 1 upside down the red place where the broken flying creels house exist is in vecnas mind thats why max was able to reach there and vecna didnt want her to do so because obviously if she told the others what she saw nancy will guess the place and they will easily know where vecna is operating from which is exactly what happened
Timetravel in S5 is a certainty! Vecna literally showed Nancy that he's going back in time when the grandfather clock hands were moving backwards in the vision he gave her!
The grandfather clock suggests that they going to the past, just as Nancy said when realizing that the Upsidedown is frozen on the day Will went missing on November 6 1983!!!
The original Montauk project was experiments in TIME, & so there's just too many hints at it for it not to come into play! Hopefully S5 will be the Back to the Future type season! Even Will actually wore the same jacket as Marty Mcfly did in BTTF...can't be a coincidence!!!
Linda Hamiltons character is the future version of 11. She used Brennan or asked him to train her.
@@geraldjohnson7435 I also think that Linda Hamilton will be future 11 because they haven't revealed her character name as yet....despite all of the other leaks!
I still believe The Mindflayer is still the big baddie.. I think we’re going to see a flashback, where The Mindflayer gives powers to Henry.. and that’s why Henry drew The Mindflayer.. as he had already seen him subconsciously..
Very interesting thought!! I like this theory. Thanks for sharing!!
It's Vecna. We already saw how Vecna gave the mind flayer it's form
@@munkayttaja6913 just because he gave form to mindflayer doesnt mean vecna is the final boss. I mean eleven whopped his ass and i think in S5 eleven will have bigger challenge fighitng mindflayer than vecna cuz he doesnt even seem that strong
I agree it’s like when will was possessed, and he would draw pictures of his visions of the mind flayer. I believe that the mind flayer somehow had a connection with Henry due to his hatred towards humans and that’s why he granted him these powers. Idk just a theory
@@vuc4934 she didn't beat Vecna tho
I just got into stranger things I can't wait for season 5 and Eddies return.
Do you think it's possible that the upsidedown will open a link to the future (present day) in Season 5? Maybe a team-up with their future children?
And in the future...gasp....can Will please have a better haircut??? Justice for Noah!!
I think there will be a flash forward to our present time. I always figured that would happen since the show is based in the 1980s. We will probably have older versions of our characters in their 50s. And maybe the monsters might come back to haunt their grandkids like in many horror tropes such as Pennywise, Freddy Krueger, Scream, etc
I hope Stranger Things season 5 will continue in 1986
I really hope Will is the reason they win in season 5