Christendom 2.0--Could It Work? | Doug Wilson & James White
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Pastor Doug Wilson and Dr James White discuss whether a new Christendom would work.
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I appreciate the adult conversation regarding this matter. There has been many that have reacted to those that disagree with extreme hositlity, but this discussion is an expample of how mature Christians behave. Thank you
More sweater vest dialogs pleeeeease just keep them coming. Talk about anything and everything 💙
I laughed 😅
Such a fascinating discussion
We need more of these discussions, especially as both the myth of neutrality crumbles beneath us, and reformed eschatology continues to make a resurgence.
You can have Reformed eschatology and still go to hell.
Reformed people have rejected their essential doctrine - Saving Faith - and now think correct Theology is salvation. I hear Reformed people arguing Theology but NOT THE GOSPEL of Saving Faith.
dont protestants recognize how superficial and adolescent this type of discussion is? they are plainly mocking christian division and justifying a 500 year old error-filled subjective revolution with a fictional label of CHRISTENDOM 2.0!
get real... this is the product of the atheistic reformers who turned God into a book and allowed each person to make his or her own truth by reading it
this is shameful... plain and simple
Excellent thought provoking conversation.. Thank you Pastors
dont protestants recognize how superficial and adolescent this type of discussion is? they are plainly mocking christian division and justifying a 500 year old error-filled subjective revolution with a fictional label of CHRISTENDOM 2.0!
get real... this is the product of the atheistic reformers who turned God into a book and allowed each person to make his or her own truth by reading it
this is shameful... plain and simple
thank you! Finally a civil converstation.
It's great to hear you, brothers! I wish you had the time to do one of these every week! They are a great blessing to me!
I am so moved by the idea of envisioning more unity in the church. Learning from history (together with the Bible) as a great asset that we have now that was lacking in many other crucial moments in history.
Great conversation, brothers. I am a Christian in the Reformed Baptist tradition and a Historic Premillennialist. I am not only open to Doug's central thesis in "Mere Christendom", but I think that these ideas could unite the church in the 21st century in a Christ-centered direction that will be, dare I say, better than what we have seen in previous Christian cultures. And if I am right in my eschatology, this will have to exist alongside apostasy, and many things continuing to go downhill until Jesus returns.
Both Doug and James are very postmil
They both admit things are getting worse not better. That doesn't exactly advocate for their eschatological position
Yup, def not going the Post Mill route. There will not be Christian pockets of society, let alone worldwide Christianity being embraced. Its all long-hope.
@@andypatscot7737
Thus I remain PreMil.
@@andypatscot7737Christianity has had ups and downs over the last 2000 years. The center of Christianity has been destroyed several times, and instead of falling, it spreads and grows in even more areas.
Jerusalem used to be the center, then North Africa then Europe and now North America. The world is not just the West, as Christianity is declining in the West, it is growing by leaps and bounds in Africa and the East. I don't think we need to take this localized decline as the 'final fall of Christianity for the fourth time, but this time for real, trust me'.
While I disagree with these guys on a few issues, I enjoy these sweater vest discussions. It reminds me of the two off centered uncles at a family gathering that everyone finds a hoot to listen to.
These guys rock!!
Nothing better than a sweater vest
This was so fantastic. Thank you!
"Right now, we can't have a meaningful discussion on Twitter without everybody getting angry and starting to throw fits." -- Dr. James White
Jimmy white and Dougy Wilson what a combination.😅
These two brothers are heroes and an ongoing blessing to me. And I sure wish the G3 guys would shut up for a minute and listen to this discussion and LEARN something! It wouldn’t hurt if they also actually engaged the apparently patient efforts and clarifications which those they suddenly oppose have been trying to offer.
In all fairness I wish all of the younger guys, including Webbon, AD, William Wolfe, and Jon Harris, would all take a page out of these brothers handbook. Theirs, as well as relationships/friendships and unity we saw with R.C. Sproul and John MacArthur, Ligonier & Masters/Grace to You, should be spread abroad amongst the brothern. I also love how Voddie and Tim Ascol approach this topic as well. In my opinion, the younger guys have only caused more confusion due to social media pride and cross communication. Instead of trying to read between lines on social media platforms, they need to pick up the phone and talk to one another, or make time to meet one another. When podcasts becomes the Christians business/livelihood, folding to worldly tactics are inevitable.
@@tinamariejohnson7520 Agreed. Watching them fight on Twitter with little cartoons gets old too. They say men who play video games are weak (which I don’t), yet they spend all day scrolling through social media.
G3 are faithful brothers
Listen, BIG things are happening. The Universe is 26.7 billion years old. We have literally obtained new heavens, from the JAMES webb telescope. As in James the Just, brother of Jesus, on the world wide web, which is the white throne that is neither in heaven nor on earth. The Kingdom is here! The first 13.7 billion year heavens were found by the Lambda, as in Christ is called the Lamb. The age of Jesus is completely done, and the age of his brother James the Just, "For whose sake heaven and earth came into existence," in the Gospel of Thomas is here. His church will simply be the fellowship of those who live their lives before the throne, that is to say, it focuses on being a good person. While many fall away from Christianity or are not Christian, that's all a matter of fact and theory, what we mentally believe. We do not fall away from what is important. From the refinement of ourselves from sin, or from loving one another. Everyone is judged by works. So it is not so much a new religion, as it is a new fellowship that looks at everything before it as the collective heritage of our past. Make no mistake, all of the symbols are clear. I am moved by the spirit to make videos about this, and it will happen soon.
Good dialog! Am I the only who would like to see Doug Wilson and Mark Driscoll have a dialog?!
Good interview. I can't see what else to do except accurately apply the doctrine of the lesser magistrate, and it seems Beza had the best clarity and conciseness on that. Unless the Lord sends widespread revival, the logical extreme of it will produce persecution. And that will last as long as the Lord wants it to. But ya still gotta plod forward and be a light and witness. Tares can ignore it. Wheat can't. The government will either be the government and punish evil and reward good, or it won't, and then suffer the promised consequences. Since all laws address morality to one degree or the other, the only question is: which morality? If revival occurs to a degree wherein government consults with the church related to what is and is not moral (per God's Word), then it's the church's job to actually be biblical. The problems of the past when that occured was a failure of God's people - that is, they weren't biblical. If the Lord grants opportunity again on that topic of teaching the nations, as it were, then being biblical will be paramount, as it always has been. Either way, still gotta plod forward and tell the 'Herods' no, if necessary, and continue to preach in the 'Temple' like Peter and the guys. That's just how it is. But, Jesus is faithful. The disposition of powers and principalities are His prerogative alone.
What a weak libertarian position. This is exactly how we got into the current position of legalized abortion and transgender operations for kids. Christians who merely screech in the public square but don't have the backbone to use public power. Despite the fact that all the righteous kings of Israel are the ones who tore down pagan groves and built up the temple. Libertarianism is incompatible with Christianity.
@possumhunter1179....none of the apostles advocated establishing a Roman christian state, in fact their mission work makes it clear the affairs of the church consumed all their time. I think your idea of marriage between church and state is not only unbiblical (the reformers really didn't get this part right), but it has a history of bearing extremely bad fruit.....christian State after christian state have persecuted true believers and made martyrs and they have all failed in history without exception. Why? Because Jesus's kingdom is not of this world and His followers have the opposite mandates that earthly kingdoms have.....The State is put there by God to punish evil doers, to take vengeance....while Christians are given the mandate to show mercy to their enemies and never avenge themselves...these two kingdoms are literally in opposition to one another, you cannot serve them both in harmony, it is not possible. Any attempts to marry these two kingdoms ends in what we see over and over again in history.... persecutions, corruptions and martyrdom for the children of God. The kingdom of God cannot be monopolized, or manipulated by mankind, it is a kingdom that spreads all over the globe without the State's means and in fact, in spite of the State's attempts to regulate it. We don't need earthly kingdoms regulating what they suppose is God's kingdom, they don't have that mandate at all and in fact any attempts to do so only destroys those states.
@@christianmama2441 You still have to deal with Daniel's friends not bowing in Shinar, Daniel praying in plain sight in spite-of and because of the King's mandate, Jesus teaching to pay to God's what's God's (leaving it obvious that Caesar doesn't have claim on what belongs to God), Jesus telling Pilot that Pilot has no authority over Him because He alone has all authority to lay down his life and take it up again, Peter and the guys preaching in the Temple even after the Sanhedrin told them not to, and Paul telling multiple high authorities (Roman and otherwise) what they owed their Maker. All this, and not to mention that Jonah prophesied knowing full well that the King of Nineveh would mandate an insincere repentance, and that after folks obeyed him, the Lord mercifully relented from wrath to them anyway- because He's always merciful, and it's all about His mercy - It's not about us. Never has been. And Jesus said He's giving this generation the Sign of Jonah - and that's all they're getting. And it's enough. And He said that if we love Him, we'll keep His commandments.
I'm not advocating some amalgamation of church and state. But the Word of God is clear on the church's mandate to be ready give an answer for the hope within, and to disciple the nations. Did Jonah disciple Nineveh, or Daniel disciple Nebuchadnezzar or Darius? Or did Paul disciple Felix? What did our Lord teach Pilot?
Christ is King. We either believe Him when He says He has all authority in heaven and earth, or we doubt Him. It is always a matter of faith, and a matter of believing that every word of the Bible is absolutely true.
In the final analysis, humans are made Imago Dei, and all human beings (regardless of government position) are required to give honor to whom honor is due. The degree and type of honor the magistrate owes the people is to punish evil and reward good. The reason that's significant is because it's not about them honoring humans so much as it's about them honoring the One in Whose Image humans are made. It's always about Christ's honor. But, to whom has the Lord given the job of teaching these magistrates what is objectively good and what is objectively evil? When they ask, "By what authority do you say this or do that? - what's the answer?" The answer is Jesus. He has all authority. And that's the answer and hope we're supposed to be ready to give. Because in this world, it's trouble. Some magistrate will want you to give him honor that's not due to him. He will ask you to pay to him what belongs to God. And that's idolatry. Ascribing any of God's attributes to any creature or created thing - of any sort - is idolatry.
Humans don't know what they think they know. And humans don't owe humans any degree of worship. Zero. Nada. Zilch.
The church's job is to proclaim Christ's Kingdom until He comes. Magistrates must fear the Lord, and we're required to pray that they would, and tell them why they should, even so. John Knox certainly had no problem saying that to a queen or two. Seems to me that he was following some pretty solid biblical examples when he did, to boot.
I never get tired of watching these thank you both
Thanks again pastors.
Two of my favorite Christian apologists.
Low key flex... I listened to it on a 40 mile bike ride 😅
If Christianity were meant to be a governing religion, then why was this never foretold in the scriptures? And furthermore, why were no instructions presented by the apostles regarding doctrine and practice when Christianity would finally become a state religion? It looks to me as if the quandary is trying to use the scriptures to deal with something that was never addressed in the first place. What happened as a result is that a number of kings, bishops, and reformers would then read their own ideas back into the Bible to impose their authoritarianism as the will of God over the masses. What am I missing here?
Nothing. There is no such thing as a righteous government until the Messiah rules on earth. Oh and by the way, in order for that to happen, ALL the worlds militaries need to be destroyed, even Americas.
That religion is man-made?
The book looks amazing. Can't wait!
Very helpful conversation
Doug, I'd love to do an Against Nice podcast on this subject with you. But in the interim, I would retort that the neutral public square hasn't failed. Christians who have determined to be neutral in the public square is the issue. So much more. But what I'm hearing of the book looks great.
I've been paying attention to these conversations for the past 3 or 4 days. It's been a big topic and this is my favorite explanation yet.
Things end sometimes well and often poorly whether Christ is at the center or not.
The timing of that echo was provident 😄
Unless I missed something during the course of this one hour interview, the fate of infidels and heretics in this new version of Christendom is a merely a detail to figure out when we get there. We live in a time when one witnesses political rallies featuring images of the cross, the 45th president, and automatic weapons. Such a time demands clarity in these themes.
lol that sounds like something I’d like sorted out ahead of time, especially considering the fact that I’m not a Calvinist and may have my head cut off for it if some of these guys have their way. My gay uncle is in big trouble too.
Fates of infidels and heretics are already being decided by our current religious government.
I would really like to see Doug Wilson and Scott Han talk about politics.
‘Jesus is LORD and there is no other’ that hits hard
At around 48 min. in, Doug lays out how We are 'the early Church' (one day being confused with Them; seeming/being early in The KINGdom expansion); Amen. What does this mean for Eph. 4?; "HE Gave Gifts to Men, first.., then..." right now, as "We are immature". So, MacArthur and his followers will hate this.. a Foundation is only Laid Once (i am a SAPPER; this is True), but Eph. 4 actually says when and why We have These Gifts (knowing we like to place things in the past or future only, not in the present to deal with). i would Love to hear a balanced presentation from Holy Scripture, in context. A Brother In CHRIST Who Is Optimistic because You see the Victory of CHRIST Over All Things (Ps.110; 1st Cor.15), here in time and space! Grace, Peace, n LOVE to all the Elect In CHRIST, to the Praise of HIS Glorious ____. Alone!-)
It can work! I'm a premil dispensationalist. I look around and see where things are going. I ask myself this, if Jesus raptures the Church in 2073 how many Americans under 50 will he take? Yeah, I'm on board. We can't wait even 50 years let alone centuries. I'll never be a Calvinist and I'll never be postmil but I'm on board with restoring America. I'm a Christian Nationalist.
And I'm going to do my darnedest to bring my whole SBC with me. All I ask is that Doug an James not be too disappointed when Jesus shows up prematurely.
This is an excellent discussion. The Church need to consider the context. We have alot of work to do getting on our feet and manning the walls. The lone-bulwark comment (which Stephen Wolfe made) is stupid, because the Lord and His Gospel are the lone bulwark upon which we may securely stand.
Love that statement, “there is no neutral public square.”
These talks are helping to clarify my thinking. Thank you Sir. I’m still interested to learn how this would affect pseudo Christian denominations such as JW and Mormon’s. Also, how would it affect Catholicism? Would the government embrace a particular interpretation of the Apostle’s Creed in terms of which denominations are a part of the National identity? I’m deeply interested to learn more, but since my questions haven’t been answered here I am forced to read the book…
It's terribly difficult to believe that this isn't the time immediately prior to the major onset of the biblically revealed conditions describing the eschaton. Postmillennialism appears to be a drawn out utopian dreamscape whose theology may be best left between 1880 and 1930. Marana'ta!
And I'm sure people felt that way when this was happening in Jerusalem and again in North Africa. This isn't the first time that a historical center of christian influence has started waning, and I don't think it will be the last, but God has always preserved his church and made it stronger.
No matter your eschatology we should be ready for Christ to come back. None of them have a date on when things are going to come back so how do some point to Him coming sooner or later?
Always dynamite!
‘The Anabaptists are running naked through Safeway again!’ 😅 LOL 😂
I
2.0 or 200.0, it won't work as long as Christians maintain the ludicrous idea that they can sin and go on sinning ("we're only human") and J.C. will.pick up the tab.
What would be needed from the ruling politicians in America is them following Psalm 101 from the heart.
love to chat with James and Doug, if you 2 are ever in north georgia...drop by...I own a motel in chatsworth...stay here with me and we shall move forward in scripture together...I AM the last...and there is no other
Thank you, this was helpful.
Read the debate between Roger Williams and John Cotton.
Thanks brethren
This brother is saying in intellectual terms What our father has been speaking to me for years
The Church is to be separate
We are a different nation
A completely different people
Goshen is different than egypt
Israel is different than then Babylon
Wheat is different from chaff
Sheep are different from Goats
The world is going to go crazy.
That's supposed to happen
But if Christendom goes crazy with them, what light is there to shine in the darkness
No better than last time. Sinful people do sinful stuff and ruin everything no matter what system we choose. Obviously some are less horrible than others, but in the end, we always mess everything up.
Which is the least horrible?
@@austinrothjr secular Scandinavia seems the least horrible to me!
But I think the point is that religion has not been the solution anywhere, Christianity hasn’t prevented corruption and war and abuse and rape in any country
@@aallen5256 National Christianity does prevent these things. Look at the Roman Empire under Constantine. For the first time in history, rape was recognized as a crime under Constantine. Not to mention the end of the gladiator games. The end of infanticide and "exposing" babies. The key is theocracy. Religion needs to be combined with state.
@@mosesking2923 Nationalised religion absolutely doesn’t prevent any of those things. The history of Europe is conclusive!! Making something a crime doesn’t mean it stopped happening by any means!!
@@mosesking2923 Catholics and Protestants tend to have a rose-colored view of theocracy because their religions called the shots throughout European history. The Catholic and Protestant monarchies were just as oppressive as Roman emperors. Ppl were often coerced to accept them with the threat of being killed, imprisoned, beaten, or stripped of their properties and worship facilities.
Ok random non-important question is How did he get a good program to convert PDF to audio?
Thank you for being a bulwark against moral insanity in America.
Just ordered the box mere Christendom ☺️
Kuyper's spheres => appropriate boundaries => more loosely coupled society => more flexible and less rigid. For example, you wouldn't have Google employees thinking they should bring their heartfelt opinions about Palestine into the office.
Sehr gut!
In England we have an established church and a small number of bishops sit in the House of Lords. Our late queen was head of the church and are off to hell in a handcart.
53:00 pefect time for that echo
I want to see that videoof James preaching in Wittenburg
which application does James White use to make PDFs into MP3. Does anyone know? 3:09
Where do I sign up?
any church history book recommendations for the munster "insanity" that was referenced in this video?
What is the date (approximately) that they claim separates Christendom 1.0 and 2.0?
Also, of your innumerable books, what is the best compendium of your (Doug's) views?
So, the lesson I took from this is, that in Christendom 2.0, as an anabaptist, i should probably still own an ar 😉
But aren't Anabaptists known for nonresistance? Or has my raising on Old Order Mennonite homeschool curriculum given me the wrong idea?😅
I hold a just war outlook now, by the way. And Christendom 2.0 is giving me a lot to think about.
Yes, as should the Presbies and Anglicans and Lutherans and Mormons and Muslims and atheists, etc
@@thetallframer I come from the closed Brethren tradition, or at least got saved at a Brethren mission. They wouldn't preach non-resistence. I've known some that served in the armed forces and police.
@@MrBolshevik17 OK. I don't want to paint with a broad brush. That's just been my experience with specifically Rod and Staff Publishers.
At worst you’ll just be drowned and everyone will cheer.
This is scary. For people who say sola scriptura, this is not biblical. As is says all thru the psalms, God is the only sovereign King and rules and has His righteous justice. He puts the rulers in place. We are to vote, proclaim the truth, but just as the Hebrew people in the desert, I need to trust only Him. If we fight it is only by His command. God placed Pharoah and hardened his heart to show Gods glory. God didn’t His people to fight or change government because they were not of that world. God showed His might in how HE took them out of it.
We are to be not of this world.
I grew up in a very abusive family that went to and worked in a Bible believing church. God, not me got me out. At the time I didn’t understand why God placed me in that horrible abusive life. Now, I know, I learned to see Gods righteousness, I learned that my leaning on my fight didn’t work, I see from afar Gods hand at work on them while He creates me.
Instead of fighting and trying to get the world to bend to laws, which won’t work, try sharing the gospel with everyone and learning to be holy.
Amen!
does anyone know where I can find a book with the persecution of Baptist who James White is referring to? I am a southern Baptist and I’m always interested in the perception among Christians. How mean and intolerant Baptist are, but we are the ones that seem to be thrown down in the holes, and have tongue clips attached to our mouths and thrown in fires.
Regarding division in Christianity, Pope John Paul II said you could regard this as a tragedy or you could see it as the opportunity for the Holy Spirit to do something new. In my opinion, a great unity drawing from best of each church.
The teachings of Jesus really works for the individual in a corrupted community. Christian Churches are their own worst enemy; for Faith Alone become a delusion that misleads the individual from engaging the Way that brings compassion into habitual daily reality.
There is no such thing as "the best" from each church. There is no need to praise the rise of heretical sects, as if Christ's Catholic Church needs to "learn" from other religions or other denominations. Just look at the disastrous Assisi prayer meetings.
There is no biblical way that anybody can explain the schism within traditional Christianity other than the brutal fact that these churches are not being led by God.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 Orthodoxy is still here, the actual original church Christ founded, core dogma unchanged since the time of the Apostles, ready to welcome to back and all other heterodox.
@@highviewbarbell So the ancient apostolic church allowed divorce and remarriage up to three times? No to mention giving remarried (adulterous) people communion? Sounds like a heretical church to me...
Just to be clear, in 1905 Brewer published a series of lectures under the title The United States: A Christian Nation, saying that the United States cannot be called a Christian nation “in the sense that Christianity is the established religion or that the people are in any manner compelled to support it” (Brewer 1905:12).
Not an argument. That's just a simplistic appeal to authority
@Felix Guerrero Yes-ish. The significance of my post was that Brewer was the same Supreme Court justice that had said the US is a Christian nation.
Therefore, drawing any significant conclusions from the original statement of Brewer that the US is a Christian nation, would go against the views of Brewer.
@@joejohnson9499
Yes and no, Brewer is simply clarifying. There is no established Church in America obviously, but America is a construct of European Protestant Christendom. America is much more than "a Christian nation" its part of Christian Civilization--- it could never have existed or continue without it.
Is there someplace from which I can download the text of the Holy Trinity decision?
I don't know that I can post a link, but a Google for "holy trinity v. united states" will find it in the first few hits.
@@danbrown586 Thanks. I found a few where you had to be a member of some organization or the other. Will keep looking.
@@danbrown586 Thx.
do you have an educated/catechized-enough populace to run your ideal state? avoiding sacralism sounds like an ideal. at some level, the "state/caesar/magistrate" will have to rule according to some kind of ethical basis, influenced either by your preferred denomination or at worst some anti-God worldview.
Yeah, that 12 years was God keeping the Church on her toes. ;)
.. the delivery of that joke... 🎉
Can’t wait to read this book. I Recently finished The Man Comes Around and one of your recommended books In The House of Tom Bombadil. 😊
Big Doug W, we’re back
1:32 that was hilarious 😂
I think the problem with this argument is that he fundamentally disagrees with credo baptism. Followers of his are dogmatic and hatefull towards baptist. Ive seen it time and time again. Therefore, once again, I do believe if this goes through that Baptist will be persecuted. We do not alline with there understanding of the Covinental structure and they want a new Theocratic state. We would not fit in their vision.
Where does james white teach church history??
I love both these guys. Thank you for your work on behalf of so many of us. As I look around at the abuse that the rebel spirits are inflicting on humanity, we need something big to counteract it. The good news is that God is sovereign and he specializes in "big"
"The only ones thinking 700 years down the road are postmils". Says the guy with a warp engine sitting on his bookshelf...
What software do you use to convert pdf to mp3?
It’s crazy how he’s basically saying that the spanish inquisition was just a trial error of “Christianity”
The Church does speak with the very oracles of God. To be deep in history...
Moses on implementing Christendom 2.0: “If you say in your heart, ‘These nations are greater than I. How can I dispossess them?’ you shall not be afraid of them but you shall remember what the Lord your God did to Pharaoh and to all Egypt, the great trials that your eyes saw, the signs, the wonders, the mighty hand, and the outstretched arm, by which the Lord your God brought you out. So will the Lord your God do to all the peoples of whom you are afraid. Moreover, the Lord your God will send hornets among them, until those who are left and hide themselves from you are destroyed. You shall not be in dread of them, for the Lord your God is in your midst, a great and awesome God. The Lord your God will clear away these nations before you little by little. You may not make an end of them at once, lest the wild beasts grow too numerous for you. But the Lord your God will give them over to you and throw them into great confusion, until they are destroyed. And he will give their kings into your hand, and you shall make their name perish from under heaven. No one shall be able to stand against you until you have destroyed them." -- Dt 7:17-24
A promise to national Israel has nothing to do with modern day Christianity. Taking verses out of context doesn't help.
@@mosesking2923 Hehehehe ...that never crossed my mind. But it is the formula for discipling the nations per the Great Commission -- i.e. Christendom -- in the face of what looks like impossible odds.
Don't be afraid, remember all God has done in the past, don't be surprised when it doesn't happen all at once because the task is bigger than you imagine and you're not ready yet, God will accomplish what he has commissioned us to do, our enemies are not invincible ... rather the internal contradictions and lies by which they rule will be turned into confusion in the face of the gospel and be their downfall until they're destroyed, and future generations will forget their names even as they wonder how anyone could have fallen for such apparent and obvious nonsense.
Thus saith Moses ...
DWs metaphors are epic. Lol
thanks
Dr. White is a "theonomic postmillenialist", but actually only a theoretical one, still, even at this point. His pietistic, baptist beliefs are still undergirding his theology on the matter. Baptist theology will always lead to some form of small d dispensationalism, especially as it relates to the family, children and posterity. I have much to thank Dr. White for in my theological journey, but he decided to get off the theological growth train a year or 2 ago. He's still relevant with those of us who are moving the needle forward, by God's grace, because he became a theonomic postmillennial, but soon he'll be left in the dust as we all continue to grow.
Young people want authenticity and this isn’t it . This is just more Protestant Gnosticism . There’s a reason young people are flocking to Traditional Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy which are authentic . My brothers in Christ , this isn’t it
Autthenticity? In the RCC and idol worshipping EO? I implore you to come out of Babylon 2.0.
No institution is more corrupt and responsible for more death and oppression of people the world over but more specifically, martyred more Christians themselves than the Roman Catholic Church.
The other baseline that could be discussed is theocratic Islamic states.
Biblically Christian, Biblically Reformed states are better and truer states than any other possible civil polities. Erastianism and Kuyperianism both fail to recognize this from different directions. Neutrality isn’t possible between contradictory Christian beliefs any more than it is possible between beliefs of perspectives that could not properly be defined as Christian and those which contradict any Christian beliefs properly named Christian. Heretics and blasphemers are to be Biblically tried and convicted in the church court and in the civil court - this is what preserving the distinction between jurisdictions looks like, not what White and Wilson have said in the above.
The audio on Doug’s end sounded cooler 😂 probably what God will sound like when he returns.
Youre dangerously close to idolatry, if youre not there already
@@choicemeatrandy6572 Or he's just being a funny goober
@@choicemeatrandy6572 Go back to my comment and reread it.
The Gospel is not Mt Sinai. It's Mt Zion.
Not even what they’re saying. You’re misrepresenting them
@@LovingTheCovenant theonomists = Judaisers. = Jesus + Law = Legalism = False prophets = Wolves in sheep’s clothing
Question : In Leviticus 16 the one who is sent to the wilderness(Gentiles) he was sent to Azazel, Which church is the one who follows Azazel ? hint, it's the one that uses him as a scapegoat. Keep in mind the scapegoat is innocent.
How many wicked things were/are, given the circumstances, understandable?
38:32 “Let’s use the most glaring example… because we are tired of having to deal with it”. This reveals White’s heart on the matter of the murder of Servetus.
Then White expresses how the WORD OF GOD had been preached with force and clarity for some 20 years… but yet… somehow… “love your enemies” was not part of it, in fact it would seem that the gospel itself was not part of that preaching at all.
53:00 Mr Wilson, be consistent and apply that prophetic righteousness to abolition. Don't endorse sinful regulation-of-abortion bills.
That sounds like where abolitionists are downright wicked. I'll take a complete overthrow of all abortion if I can get it, but if all I can get is a 30 week ban, I'll take it and immediately start pushing for abolition. If that gets me a 20 week ban, I'll take it and immediately start pushing for abolition. If that gets a 10 week ban I'll take it and immediately start pushing for abolition.
That's how the left fights and it works. That's how we got to such a wicked state in the first place, and it is how we can go back.
Meaning of Christendom is Earth / dry land.
The place where most of people are Christians.
It was before Constantine converted, it used be small pockets land among waters. But the Christendom/ earth opened its mouth and swallowed the flood waters ( pangan people) satan send againsts saints. After the constine conversion, whole Roman empire become Christendom, and satan went and stood at sea shore, near the Rhine and Danube rivers, from sea came germanic tribes aka barbarians.
Christendom the Earth is divided into kingdoms / Nations, these are denominations and sects.
In them seed of Christ, the elect aka israel were scattered. Therefore Christ is called king of kings, beciz he is king of all kingdoms of Earth. Church at Rome corrupted the earth. For more info read my book. -- Jonathan Bijja
Look up the debate between Roger Williams and John Cotton.
What’s the fruit of the reformation? A thousand denominations. Does that sort of fragmentation resemble a “body”. It doesn’t seem recognizable as such to me.the reformation seems a pivotal development in the decline of Christendom, leading us to where we today Worship in the ruins of a once Mighty Edifice.
Amen. The Reformation played a massive part of the decline of Christiandom. It’s wild to see Protestants now advocating for
It.
A thousand denominations? Really?
Could you name more than twenty? Let alone a thousand?
@@JustinHonaker each non-denominational has their own interpretations
Roman Catholics destroyed Christian Unity by departing from the teaching of the Apostles. The Lord was gracious and reformed the Church, and is still doing so.
@@felixguerrero6062 Which teachings of the Apostles did Roman Catholics depart from?
"Holy Trinity vs. United States" 😂😂
Nope, the case of Holy Trinity DID NOT explicitly reason that America was a Christian nation, though Brewer did add that phrase. That language came into vogue among defenders of slavery in a book written by Justice Brewer in 1905. Debate me!
Oh theonomists, does not the Old Testament Law call for the execution of witches and blasphemers?
Yes it does. Was God wrong?
@@matthewdyer2926 Doesn’t it also call for the execution of children who strike or curse their parents, for the execution of anyone who worships other gods, execution for both parties in all adulteries, execution for violating the Sabbath… which might be Saturday or Sunday! A lot of unnecessary death, eh? A lot of fear!
@@aallen5256 People need to be kept in line. The religion of the masses is a national security issue. If we worship the wrong gods, our nation will fall into ruin.
@@mosesking2923 Executions have no deterrent effect, just compare the crime stats between states with and without capital punishment. And killing children for hitting their parents wouldn't exactly be keeping those kids in line!
Nations rise and fall. The universe is indifferent.
You ask that as if the Theonomist position hasn’t clarified that point and how it is intended to be implemented in light of the new covenant. Do a little more reading on the topic. I’m not an expert on it, and am just learning about it, but I know enough to see a straw man from you on this point.