Is Your Les Paul Bridge Collapsing?
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- Ever heard of a Les Paul Tuneomatic style bridge "collapsing'? Let's check it out!
Collapsing Bridge Info: hazeguitars.com/blog/gibson-b...
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Ah yes. The infamous Dolce & Gabbana string buzz issue.
“For years I though fret buzz was just an nirmal part of the life of a Les Paul owner. Now I know I was living in the dark. Now I’m buzz free and ready to live my best life. Thanks RBnG”.
Literally just took in my Greco for this.
I’ve been having this issue with my Gibson Flying V and I now have a solution! Thank you Fluff!!
If the strings are touching the back of the bridge behind the bridge saddles, the tailpiece is too low.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve see this issue, even from retailers on new guitars. It’s one of those things that makes a subtle but important difference in tone.
Top wrap baby.
@@guitarded5198 ew
Not a problem with top wrapping!.
Cool that preventing bridge collapse is yet another reason to top wrap - along with staying in tune better, less string breakage and better feel bending.
@@guitarded5198 Hard to do with a string through guitar. Best solution would be for companies to just make the damn bridges out of something stronger than zinc or brass. Callaham makes a steel bridge but they want a fortune for it (nobody gives them any marketplace competition) and I've seen them look rusty after a bit. A decent quality polished stainless steel would be the way to go.
Tuneomatic bridge is wearing down, wearing down, wearing down
Tuneomatic bridge is wearing down, my fair shredder
I dig this man. If you end up having to do more on your Les Paul, I'd definitely love watching a video on it. Thanks for the good content!
Good info! I was familiar with the term, but only in the acoustic realm. I'm not experiencing this on any of my guitars, but now I know what to look for if it comes up
Dude, that's it. You literally just told me the cause and cure for my Epiphone ! 😊👍✌🤘
The cure may be to grab a Gibson, unless it's one of the MIJ Epiphones.
@@barretprivateer8768 I mean mij or mic they're still fine guitars
Made in Korea though is kinda not it tbh
@@barretprivateer8768 yeah man the cure is to spend 1000+ dlls to not spend 30-50 bucks on a decent bridge
great info, I was totally overlooking this on my Epi LP and SG for years... thanks Fluff, appreciated!
I just started getting fret buzz on my d string and ill definitely check for this. Great info thanks Fluff
Best to just replace the bridge and place the original in the case for safe keeping, I can't imagine that "repairing" it would be a worthwhile fix. It could even weaken it further.
@@deadtolove probably because collectors really want to keep things original as much as possible. If someone was buying a guitar that had a replaced bridge, you would want to know that up front and why it was replaced. It think it could and probably would affect the overall value for some people IMO.
@@AndGuitar the bridges are nothing special and are mass produced. If it was an original 59, sure keep it original. But a newer model where there's a billion exact parts floating around i dont think its a big deal.
@@AndGuitar Only really for rare/vintage/celeb owned instruments, otherwise only the most absolutely obsessive collectors would care.
Super helpful! I had no clue this was a thing. Totally explains the problems I've been having with my 90s Epiphone (it has an original bridge, even more caved in than yours).
I have 7 Gibsons, but have had no issues like the one described.
However, I appreciate the heads up on a potential problem.
Man that's alot of 💰
@@TheRumbles13 Gibsons. for all their faults and bashing, keep their value very well. My Zoot Suit SG is now worth about $2,000.00, so it has more than doubled in value. Mine is the black and tan version, not the clown burst.
@@perihelion7798 I know they do, and it blows my mind. I've played quite a few, ill take my prs anyday
I mean SE PRS, Not even the pricey ones
@@TheRumbles13 Generally, a PRS has better quality control than a Gibson. They always have. I don't believe that PRS offers 'blems' to the public.
Thanks for the info. TOM bridges have a lot of different issues, they feel like an outdated design still used for whatever reason.
Saw your IG post about this a while back. This was really helpful in detailing exactly what's going on. With my setup, I'm probably less likely to have this happen, but good to know. Thanks!
Great info! Thanks.
I’ve heard of bridge tilt before but never bridge collapse. Thanks for the info.
Great video ryan talking about this. I know many gibson users insist the tail piece needs to be fully down to the body.
Excellent video! Learned something new.. thanks!
Great info Fluff
I had this issue, i.e., a sagging bridge on my '96 Les Paul R9. I took the bridge to the garage and suspended each end on an arbor press (upside down of course) and gently applied pressure in the middle pushed the sag out. Now it works fine.
Great info!
Thanks for the heads up
Man, this is GREAT information. Thank you 🤘
If you top wrap your strings, itll take pressure off the bridge. Ergo no collapse and les pressure on the bridge.
So true.
Vintage ABR-1 Bridges are expensive, top-wrapping can potentially keep a vintage ABR-1 in service longer.
That may be true, but that also creates less downward pressure on the saddles [ obviously ], which lessens sustain. Your choice.
@@perihelion7798 true that, just put a sustain pedal on it and call it a day jk😀
The lack of downward pressure can cause other issues. I top wrapped my LP style guitar once, felt great!....BUT even with the stop bar down to the body, it wasn't enough pressure to prevent my A string from popping off the saddle groove for some bends (granted, that saddle groove was slightly deformed compared to the other strings). Still, a method everyone should at least try once!
Ultimately each guitar needs to be adjusted and set-up as if that guitar is unique unto itself. Not everything will work the same way from instrument to instrument. I have some Les Paul guitars that I top wrap and others I do not.
Guitars (even among brand and model) are as different as individual people, realizing this when setting up your guitars and your life will get much better.
so THAT´s what happening. For a whole year, i ask everybody what is wrong. Now i know. Thanks a lot man.
Another good reason to top wrap your strings. If you drop tune and use heavy gauge strings to compensate, this set up trick can alleviate some of the increased string tension. Makes bends soo much easier, I'll never go back to conventional string routing.
Thx man,nice trick to fix some issue like this
I never knew about this possible problem? Thanks dude.
Hey Fluff, greetings from Bellingham, WA. Very informative video and much appreciated as always!
Great info, great vid Bro, thanks for uploading! Rock on!!
Excellent video. Thanks. 👍🏽
Good to know...just started with l p styled 1 year ago...still learning!!
Cool. I've heard the term before but really didn't know exactly what it meant. Very informative!
No joke, that is the most Gorgeous Les Paul I’ve ever seen - bar none. You’ve already converted me to being an RD guy, but I would switch back to being a Les Paul guy if I had the scratch to buy one like that.
Thank you. I have been having this issue.
Wow, that's a good tip dude! Thank's for that. I honestly never heard about that 🙈🙊
Excellent content.
Thank you. You just helped me fix 2 of my guitars. You Rock brother
thanks great info
This explains what is happening to my Fender Jag...wow. Just realized it. Thanks!
Good Information. Well done.
I had an issue with my bridge leaning towards the neck. So needless to say, I couldn’t intonate. I think the previous owner stored it in a flat fender type guitar case. The bridge was leaning, but the posts were straight when removed. That tells me the wood inside warped along with the case pressure over time.
Just checked my les Paul ! Thx fluff 🤘
That's cool, Fluff. I never even heard of this. Thanks, man.
a lot of people really don't know how what the tailpiece does and end up just CRANKING it to the deck. the tailpiece controls the overall tension and feel of the strings on the guitar. if you have it all the way tight, the strings will oscillate in a tighter pattern and have a somewhat higher overall tone. if you raise it way up (looser), it'll oscillate wider and have an overall deeper tone. if you like your strings to feel soft, raise it up, if you like your strings to feel tight, crank it down. my best advice over the years is to set it in a way that when you hammer the shit out of a low E chord, it doesn't warble out of tune from the oscillation. bands often tune down a full step and use a capo for recording because they like the deeper tone and they could have just achieved that by raising their tailpieces way higher. like everything else, there's a balance. too high and you'll knock your strings off the saddles because there's not enough tension. too tight and you get collapsed bridges.
you ever notice how almost any note sounds sweeter when you're tuned to Eb standard? that's because of the lesser tension. raise the tailpiece to get the same effect while in standard E.
Haze Guitars is one of the few places on the internet that always has useful, accurate information on guitar repair. I cannot recommend them enough.
Regarding the tailpiece & break angle as part of the cause, the proper tailpiece setting is so the highest and lowest strings just clear the back of the bridge. Not (necessarily) all the way down. I suppose you could go higher, but certainly no lower.
Cue the "top wrap" enthusiasts in 3, 2, 1...
Top wrapping is bunk. Just raise the tailpiece. Vibrations don't transfer to the body of the guitar via the tailpiece - that's the bridge's job!
Top wrapping will also cause post lean on the tailpiece posts. and having the tailpiece set too low can not only cause bridge collapse. it can also cause post lean on the bridge posts.
The TonePros stuff is phenomenal!
thanks very useful info
Very informative. Thanks.
Out of curiosity after seeing this video I pulled out my iceman which has had intonation issues the past couple years and couldn't figure out why. My Gotoh bridge is collapsing. Never would have thought about looking at the bridge. Thanks for making this video
As a big singlecut person with 2 ec 1000s and 1 that’s from 2007, thanks for the info, Fluff!
Thanks for the pro tip!!
I found that the 10th fret on the A and D string sound wired and sometimes resonance the same note on my 2011 lp custom，for half a year. I checked it today and the bridge is totally collapsed.Thanks man for letting us know the fact.
This was very helpful. Guarantee mine has it. I thought the posts were bent.
I’ve had tune O-Matic bridges on just about all my guitars and recently built a Strat with a t.o.m. As well. I never have this specific issue but when building the new strat I filed down the apex of the saddles too much and have had buzzing issues ever since, because every saddle has to be in relation with the others to form a radius over the fretboard, otherwise you won’t get proper action or intonation. The last Les Paul that I bought was a Gibson Smartwood and the bridge was corroded because it somebody who owned it had it near a beach.
Reminds me of those issues you had with your old RDs that you then discovered was mostly just the bridge/tuners fucking it up.
My 2001 Gibson ES-135 still had the original bridge and for shits & giggles, I checked the bridge and it had some collapse. It wasn’t a big gap but it was obviously showing a curve. Ordered a Tonepros bridge and it’s currently in the shop getting slotted and setup.
Babicz bridge.. should have tried one my guy! Perfect opportunity to do a review on one and fix your issue.
One of my Epiphone Les Paul's had a clasped bridge. About a year ago.
Holy cow. I just went and checked my 2005 ish BC rich NJ Classic Mock. I had been having issues...and BAM. Answers.....maybe.
Always liked individual saddle adjustments ala Fender, now I know why
Happened to the bridge on my Ibanez Prestige Artist. Couldn’t find a replacement Gibraltar anywhere so I had one made by Compton Compensated Bridges.
Never heard of this before. Have a Samick singlecut style guitar that's over 15 years old now. Have to put that in the memory bank if/when I run into that.
Happens on string through guitars a lot as well because of the extra angle with there being no tail piece
I did not know that, thank you sir.
This explains the top wrapping method.
Thanks for this... just checked my 78 and its collapsing HARD. Now to find a replacement.
My 2005 Epiphone Studio has a burst that has that Oxblood colour. The bridge was swapped out... Because of warpage.
Pretty sure it's always had some heavy gauges and a bottomed tailpiece.
It's standard tuning 11-49 balanced tension.
I have a black Piezo bridge now as well as a Nanomag with endpin jack. So much acoustic sim
Yep, happened to my friends '77 Deluxe a few years ago.
This is where Tone-Pro's stuff comes in handy. They even have little set screws to lock the thing on the posts
i had the same prob with my 2nd hand esp viper the former owner was using thick gauges. i just replaced it with a Babicz.
Hey Fluff, thanks for the video, really interesting. I got not so long ago a les paul copy and it has this issue. To be honest it is so bad that i don't need a ruler to see haha. But honestly i had no idea that this was an issue, i will be fixing it soon
When you check for bridge collapse you will also want to check for post lean. because it's also a common problem with the tunamatic style bridge.
Yeah, Stewmac made a video about it a year ago.
This is exactly why I switched the stock bridge on my 2012 Standard to a Callaham cold rolled steel bridge.
Go with Titanium! Great explanation Fluff.
The setup of the stop bar is just as important as the bridge setup.
You don’t need to replace the bridge man, you can very easily fix the one it had on it. Take the saddles out, put some masking tape on the bottom side of the bridge, lay it top side down on a flat surface and use a rubber mallet to beat it back straight. Reassemble it and raise the tailpiece when restringing to take excess pressure off the bridge. I’ve been doing this for a few years and it works like a charm.
You could top wrap, or simply raise the stop bar at back of the bridge to lower the tension on the piece that has the saddle, I believe. But This may lower the tension and feel of the strings as well.
Not sure if top wrap is the way to go as I have seen pictures of strings going through the top of the stop bar. They could dig in the top over time. They are not designed for this I believe. This is like moving the potential issue to an other part...
I have the same happening on my Ibanez 2459 destroyer, and it buzzes like crazy.
This is why I use .8s tuned to B
Really informative video! Now let's talk about tailpiece height, how much tension is right
So, I should consider this ANOTHER reason why I ONLY use Hipshot-style tailpieces.
if you ever buy older guitars, you always check for this. just buy a faber abr and put the old one in the case
I'm partial to the Hipshot Tone-O-Matic. Have a Faber on my 97 Les Paul DC though and it's uber nice.
Noted... I have the ORIGINAL t.o.m bridge on my '82 Ibanez Rocket Roll II which is a bit rusty but no bending at all. Yay. It's good for another 10 I reckon LOL.
I actually worked on a friend's Schecter 7 string with a Tone Pros TOM style. I was shocked at how much it dipped in the middle!! Especially considering how much those Tone Pros are , and the guitar was only a couple years old. Incidentally I have a 76 Explorer with the original bridge, zero sag.
I have recently bought a 2014 Schecter 7 string, and it also had a collapsing bridge. The biridge had a Sung Il engraved on the bottom. Have seen the same bridges on chinese, korean and vieatnamese made guitars before. I guess that could be problem for a 7 string TOM bridges. Hard to find a replacement one.
So a lot of this is down the the fact that most tuneomatics are die cast (including tone pros)
Bridges that are CNC milled from solid stock (like from ABM or Hipshot) are much more durable and don't tend to collapse as much as the air pockets one gets from die casting are not present when you make a bridge this way.
Also the amount of zinc used in the bridges is rather high and zinc tends to be a bit on the soft side.
A bridge made of Brass (or Bell Bronze), Steel or aircraft aluminium is far less likely to collapse.
There are other benefits to having a bridge made with CNC Milled solid stock (tighter fitting parts, better qualities for sustain and tone)
The trade off is that these bridges tend to be more expensive. But in my opinion, they are worth it!
Hope this was a handy insight if anyone reads this :)
This happened with my 2016 Les Paul after having 12 - 52s on it for a long time. I was already well aware that this could happen. No tune o matic Gibson or otherwise will hold up forever to heavy gauge strings.
I changed mine a while ago the thing collapsed too as I was using heavy gauge strings on standard tuning and the action was really high too. I don't think it's anything particular to Gibson the bridge was a Gotoh made in Japan 🤣 anyway to cut a long story short it's an easy fix. I didn't know back then what it was until I brought it to the local repair shop.
Just when I thought I knew all the design flaws of the Les Paul, here comes another I didn't think of!
No shit
Good information. Now you also know why you should not buy cheap bridges if the metal is lighter and less rigid it will certainly collapse sooner.
Now i want to check my schecter devil- it’s a string through with a tune o matic
Pretty common. Just buy a new bridge, throw the original in case. If you’re running heavy gauge strings, this can be an issue. Also, put Tw25b on the nut slots and saddles. Your guitar will not go out of tune. Especially if you use elixir strings. They are slick and combined with the Tw25b (military white gun grease, comes in syringe), your Gibson will be almost as tight as your Floyd Rose guitars in terms of tuning stability 👊🏻
Also: NV2 replacement bridge with graphtec saddles are awesome . 🤘🏻
Also: TP6 tailpieces are awesome too. They change the string angle over the bridge kinda like top wrapping. Better tuning stability and gives you fine tuners. And looks badass. Just make sure to get Gibson brand. They aren’t cheap, but they are awesome. I have them on all my Gibson’s. I’ve even modified my ESP’s to take them.
Educational
On my Gibson the bridge was replaced about every three years due to this issue. Treat it like an oil change.
My Sonex is due for a new bridge. Well, it's due for a lot of new hardware (tuners are worn out, pickguard is holding on for dear life, pickup selector works when it wants, et cetera), but a new bridge is high on the list. It was going to be a summer project, but it's beginning to look like fall/winter.
in my case, it's a new LP Modern, and it's the B and high E, not D and G. The B string in particular has super twangy overtones that make it way too loud relative to the other strings, even when unpowered. I'm trying to recall when it started -- i think it was near the time I switched to 9's from 10's. I suspect it's the tiny strings being too small for the nut slots.
But thanks for this video -- I also noticed that my tail piece was just about decked, and the high GB+E strings were touching the back side of the bridge. I'm going to take it to a luthier pretty soon once all the things are thinged (vaccine, my car running again, money in pocket, etc.)
I love me the schmell of sunshine in the morning. :)