Tanto Geometry - inside look at traditional kaiken mounting
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2016
- A look inside the carving of a small kaiken tanto mounting (futokoro-gatana) with additional examples from an Edo period tsuka and an even older shirasaya.
Serious students of the forge can study more tanto geometry here: islandblacksmith.ca/tag/tanto-...
The wood is hounoki/honoki, Japanese Magnolia, traditionally chosen because of its stability, longevity, and medium hardness.
The omote is the "public side" of a tanto or sword, the side that faces outwards both when being worn and when on display. The edge faces upwards and the handle is on the left when displaying nihonto. The ura is the "private side" and faces away from the viewer when on display and towards the body when worn.
An article on the carving and fitting of a classical tanto style handle: islandblacksmith.ca/2016/02/ma...
The omote is the "public side" of a tanto or sword, the side that faces outwards both when being worn and when on display. The edge faces upwards and the handle is on the left when displaying nihonto. The ura is the "private side" and faces away from the viewer when on display and towards the body when worn. The wood is hounoki/honoki, Japanese Magnolia, traditionally chosen because of its stability, longevity, and medium hardness. Serious students of the forge can study more tanto geometry here: islandblacksmith.ca/tag/tanto-geometry/
It's so cool to see the antiques and to think they were carved by a craftsman that is long dead by now, yet his work can still be studied and admired. Plus the confirmation that they did actually do it that way and they did actually gave it that shape.
indeed, plenty of clues to enjoy!
I really enjoyed this video. Thank you Mr. David.
Amazing complex artistry.
It's great to see your channel growing bro. Keep adding value! Soon you'll be making a living creating masterpieces on YT and you won't have to sell them if you don't want to ;)
thanks! it sure would be nice to focus more on the research and the work and less on the rent...
I was looking for this instruction.I was making a saya for the katana I made,and made it to sit flash on the omote side but was not quite sure if I was right so I had to come back and verify.learned a lot from you.thank you
glad to hear!
Tus trabajos son realmente fascinantes...
Thank you for the knowledge of the tanto handle and scabbard as I am currently making a tanto for a friend but had no idea how to do it without drilling
you will find some links in the description to more information on the website too, this is a useful series of articles: islandblacksmith.ca/tag/tanto-geometry/
Great jobb sir!!!
So that's what the extra length in the canal/channel is for, I was trying to figure out why you do it yesterday, I actually "Left" a larger channel in the one I just made, and by "Left" I mean I accidentally chiseled to much away. So it's for oil build up, see this is why it's good to copy a masters little niche additions, even if you don't understand why you are doing it, everything has a purpose even in the minutia.
Great stuff, 10/10.
yes, follow all the details and in time the purpose may be revealed! ^___^
I made a little rhyme probably 40 years ago. Oil collects, dust, dust collects moisture and moisture collects rust. I like to coat the blade then with a dry cloth make one pass so there is just a very thin coat of oil. Has worked well for 50 plus years.
very good! thin is the way to go!
hola veo tus videos y me gustan mucho saludos desde colombia
nice
To subscribe to your channel! A lot of you have interesting and good work! Too fond of this theme 🇷🇺👍
Those were some cool artifacts! On the topic of tsuka and saya repairs, how common would it be to have extra wood added inside to make a habaki or nakago fit better? I'm sure that after a while the compression inside the handle will deform the wood a little.
i have seen thin shims of wood or even washi paper added to the mune of the tang or the koiguchi to adjust things over time...another approach is to swap out seppa for thinner ones...
Thanks!
I'm down with the reservoir tip.
your the man
I love silent videos when gorgeous craftsmanship is being displayed. However, I'm really glad you chose to explain what I was missing by looking only. It would be so easy to be drawn deeply into wanting to understand this more. Do you use tsubaki oil for the blade? I meant to get some while I was in Japan a couple weeks ago, but I did not happen upon it during my travels.
nice! you can get a couple of sizes of oil from namikawa heibei online that will likely last a lifetime...i think theirs is a choji (clove) blend...
Kind of by accident we ended up at KAMATA Hakensha in Kappabaishi (just a few minutes before they were to close). Wow! Thanks for the tip on the oil! I'll put that on my visit list for the next trip too!
excellent, glad you caught kamata~san!
Traditionally it was a plant based oil which had the advantage of oxidizing, thus absorbing surrounding oxygen in the scabbard, but also turning to somewhat of a hardened polymer by the same process, so it had to be cleaned up and changed regularly to avoid that. Nowadays sword oil is simply silicon oil, which has the advantage of being extremely stable in time, but does not react with oxygen at all, so swords need to be looked at more closely to make sure rust isn't taking root. Either case, it all means you should care for your blades ;-)
The clove sent in today's oil is only because it smells good, and reminds us of the previous plant based oil used.
As Dave mentions, you can get sword oil online through Namikawa Heibei, who deals in English.
...and: don't put too much oil on blades! You should only see a thin film, no thickness of oil and certainly no drops.
omoshiroi! i never made the drying oil and oxygen reduction connection (though i have used pure tung oil on outdoor knives for the hardening properties)...there were some locals blending pure choji and tsubaki here but i think they've gone out of business...i have a bit of a bottle left and then it's back to the namikawa oil...
Fine skills with that chisel. I could only dream of.
dreaming is good, supplement it with practice and you will be amazed how far it takes you!
Probably been asked do you use spring steel or other types of steel for the blade
...only spring steel older than a century, newer leaf springs have quite a bit of alloy that changes the metallurgy...old files or plowshares are great for knives...
CHF,
Fascinating curved chisel. Have you discussed it previously? I was trying to work out the geometry!
AAR
if you look up さや用ノミ or saya nomi (scabbard chisel) you might find some legit examples from japan...namikawa carries them: www.namikawa-ltd.co.jp/product/129
Thanks, I appreciate the info! So... by legit you're implying you forged the example you use? That makes it more fascinating! I have always been impressed by craftsmen that make their own tools.
Thanks again!
Albert
PS: And of course you do have a page on your website about them! If I only opened my eyes a little more! LOL! AAR
yes, this one is not a perfect example (but it works for very short spaces), next one will be better! also i mean you often find other versions made by folks in the west who have not seen the real thing or observed the real examples carefully...always best to stick with the original when studying!
Warrrbiasahhh
Hi. Have you ever watch any of the Satoichi movies? His cane sword is straight and looks like it’s on the slim side I’m 5’7” in height two feet 6 to 7 inches in nagasa? So how much for such a sword using fresh 1080 steel in Sirisaya? As to the hamon a shallow suguha ( that you do so well) polished to the first uchigumari stones . Thanks.
tanto is my area of focus so i haven't done anything larger yet, also not something i can put on my list at this point...but yes, slim, a bit shorter, and fairly straight in a cane is what you are looking for...there are a few antique versions that come up for sale from time to time even...
You don't happen to know of an online tutorial to make the saya chisel do you?
it is on my long term list, but there isn't much to them if you can study some antiques or ones made in japan you will get the details pretty close...they are called saya nomi (鞘鑿)...
Okay, thanks! Yeah, I know about those long term lists. I have a few things on that list too.
Interessting study. One question about your tools (nomi and kogatana): did you make them from laminated steel?
you can make saya nomi of solid steel and they work fine, kiridashi are better laminated but work fine from solid steel too...best to keep it simple and get to work!
@@islandblacksmith I think I really become to have a fancy for laminated blades. I` m saying this from a perspective of someone who is more starting out and picking first tools rather than having some real-long time experiences. Really a western chisel seems very crude to me if you compare it with the japanese. The ura allows for much less effort in final honing and the face allows for a very good registry on the stone while not having a lot to abrade. These tools are also made much harder than anything known in the west. So much intelligence and beauty in simple tools I hope to be able to forge some one day...
Why do you claim laminated kiridashi is superior if I may ask?
yes, you have covered the reasons mainly, for real sharpness precise flatness is good (for regular chisels, kanna, etc), and it technically allows the edge to be very hard and therefore take a finer and longer lasting edge...but i say for the purpose of someone starting out and making their own tools to just use scrap steel and make something simply so you can get to work ^___^
@@islandblacksmith Thank you. In the mind it easy to get cought into perfectionism while reality can be way more simple, love my japanese kiridashi though and hope to break down the secret process of its cuisine some day.
+Crosssed Heart Forge - islandblacksmith, thanks man for ur tutorials, I have made a tanto handle or tsuki myself based on ur videos. But there is a problem
1) I carved the interior too much and the blade is rattling, what to do
2) I made a hole for the mekugi or pin, but it does not allign what to do
try again! if making tsuka was easy everyone would be doing it (^____^)b
islandblacksmith.ca/2016/02/making-a-tanto-takedown-handle/
islandblacksmith.ca/tag/tanto-geometry/
+Crossed Heart Forge- islandblacksmith, thanks man for replying, since you are here I have been wondering if a rumor about japanese swords smiths are true
1) There is a rumor about japanese smiths that, if you use modern tools such as angle grinder or drill it is disrespecting the traditions
2) And another myth is, if you use your traditional Katana or Tanto, for cutting wood, opening boxes, leaving it lying around or performing utility it is a disrespect to japanese culture, is it true
Thanks man, you deserve more subs, I wouldnt have been able to make a Tanto handle if it werent for u and sorrels
there are certain materials and methods required to fulfill the legal requirements for swordsmiths in japan, but angle grinders and drills are not mentioned...arguably using any knife or tool for a purpose other than what it was designed for is disrespecting i suppose, misuse is just not wise, but most collectors see themselves as caretakers rather than "owners" of a high value knife or sword, the goal is to enjoy and pass along to future generations...
The reason I asked the second question is because, if you go to Ronin Katana channel where they use Katana's in wood, you will see traditional japanese martial artist, blacksmiths, or any japanese traditionalist saying that 'You dont deserve a Katana, and how dare you disrespect it like that, a Katana is valuable piece of japanese culture, and you just treat it like a wood cutter'. I just wanted to if it is true that, japanese smiths see their katanas more than a sword
...it is very difficult to know exactly who is saying anything on the internet, but certainly a fair and useful test for a tool or knife should be within the range of what it was designed for...anything beyond that is entertainment (^_____^)
dude youve got mad fucking skills
what wood do you use?
this is hounoki, japanese bigleaf magolia...
How expensive is your chisel..? Price?
i made mine, but you can maybe buy them online from japan, maybe $200-500 for handmade ones...
How do I get the magnolia?
depends where you are, hopefully it grows locally, else it may be available in a lumber store, else you can order it from namikawa and/or find a local wood with similar properties...
Thank you sir
Piro mas?
Saya pengen tak tuku siji !!!
I believe one day we will become close friends.
But I am far from your level yet 😏
people keep stealing your videos and it pisses me off
Lambat...🤦🤦🤦