No, it's nowhere near THAT good. The mere idea of such a movie is an insult to any organism higher on the scale of evolution than an oyster. (Am I being too harsh?)
yeah that is very strange many a woman has had a horse loving phase I grew up hearing about it jokingly in romantic comedies. It seems very projective of women to put that on men I mean as a young boy I thought huh funny I guess girls just like horses and boys like things like tigers and bears and stuff because it was natural for dudes everywhere to like an animal if not a gun or tank that had claws
To the older woman, Iona. "Beauty" when you are older as a women is not about looking like you are 20 years old. It's both the love and need for beauty in life, and the passion it inspires. An older woman CAN bring even more beauty to the world than a younger woman, and part of that comes from doing what you can with your aging self, but the VAST majority comes from UNDERSTANDING the power and need for beauty in the world and bringing MORE to it in the world. There is a generation of women, who would be over 100 now, who've passed away, that I've was blessed knowing. They weren't rock stars or Astronauts or CEOs, but they are more memorable and deeply shaped my life and the lives of other good people I know simply by bringing more genuine goodness and beauty into the world. They created a lasting effect that I can honestly say is many generations long. This is a more memorable legacy even most of the men of that era. I feel like the lesson for young women is to be granted a short time of beauty so they UNDERSTAND it's value the preciousness of it going forward. And how important it is to bring more to the world. I feel like nearly all women of these recent generations have instead forgotten this and become vapid shells of what they could be.
Physical Beauty is a mating Display, signaling strengh, health and good genes. It's a means to an end, which is to improve the chances of the next Generation who are here to replace us eventually. The courting and mating Phase is not suppossed to last forever. After the mating Phase ended as we grow older we were supposed to raise and lead the younger Generations. We usually didn't have the luxury to complain about the fact, that our 60 year old asses aren't as tight as our asses at 16.
Having watched the film and quite a few reviews, I've come to the conclusion that there was no clear, coherent feminist message in the film. Maybe the writers thought there was, but I cant see it. I even saw an interview with Gerwig and Margot Robbie where they were asked about how the film was feminist and they seemed unable to articulate why themselves. The most embarrassing bit in the film was the rant by America Ferrera. And the way it ended in Barbie Land I found puzzling: the Barbies realised they treated the Kens badly but then decided to stick with mostly the same set up; for me this undermined any potential feminist message the film was trying to pass on. After all that, I just wanted to say I enjoyed the interview!
Barbie is a masterpiece of propaganda. The message of the movie is that all women are beautiful and perfect and all men are at best useless and at worst dangerous. It's Mein Kampf written by Gloria Steinem. However it is very beautifully camouflaged as a comedy, a musical and a silly children's movie. Therefore if any men are offended by the movie women can simply brush that criticism off by saying "It's a children's movie about a plastic doll! Why are you getting offended? You must be a very insecure man." (It's not a children's movie; it's rated PG-13 not G. This is not a new version of "Toy Story".) The inclusion of Allan is brilliant. He is an included as an example of a nice man, a man who is an ally of women, probably gay, so there is one token good male character. The catch is however that even he is depicted as being clumsy, timid and submissive to the women. He is a male "Uncle Tom". I think that the movie was produced to promote anti-men sexist bigotry and it does so brilliantly. I can imagine the opposite movie being created with all the men good and all the women bad. In Iran.
The movie is mocking modern feminism that’s why Barbie world is fake and plastic, the real world is better for both men and women hence Barbie wanting to be human
That’s one of the sexiest voices I’ve ever heard. I wish she’d record a bunch of love poetry so she could read me to sleep. What a lovely voice. I haven’t seen the movie so I won’t opine on it. I just love her voice.
Sounds horrible. Ideology aside, why has the quality of writing in entertainment (across the board) been in such decline, over the last 10-20 years? In real life, the Board of Mattel is 7 men and 5 women, which makes the whole presentation of the Board a complete strawman.
Risk averse producers and corporate executives afraid of missing out on a dollar by offending a market segment. Producers want guaranteed returns, and the most reliable way to get them is to trade on existing goodwill, so they do a lot of remakes, "reboots", origin stories and series/franchises. Twitter's amplification of fringe voices has fooled corporate executives that unless they actively appease every activist they hear about, they risk alienating a market segment and losing money, so they hire diversity consultants and activists into creative roles. These people are not skilled storytellers but they are now the ones telling the stories. Instead of writing complex, flawed characters that undertake the classic hero's journey, facing adversity, learning and improving before overcoming their challenges, they write simple self-insert characters that serve as "diversity" representatives that demonstrate how capable they are by immediately being excellent at everything. Their lack of writing skill means that they often show the capability of these characters by comparison with the established characters whose goodwill is being exploited or with disposable and ineffectual heterosexual white men. The other approach is to race-swap or gender-swap established beloved characters or openly have them express abnormal sexual preferences and argue that any criticism of the art is rooted in racism, sexism or homophobia, relying on the resultant online bickering between the aggrieved fans of the exploited intellectual property on one side and diversity representation activists and the production team on the other side to serve as advertising. The result is often a very substandard narrative in which a beloved established character appears but has little to do except be gay, black or female and awesome, or be true to their original representation but bitter and impotent so as to make a new, young gay, black or female character look better by comparison.
The internet has robbed youth of the ability to think and daydream, they stare at phones and read other peoples junk online, also they can no longer spell as there is no need to write anything anymore. It will never get better until tech dies and people go back to pencil and paper and reading books
What I do like, is not that the movie itself functions well as a mirror, but that the reactions to it seems to accomplish something like that. The movie reactions seem all over the place. Many are confused, many are shallow, many are performative, many contain contradictions. And quite a few are intelligent, yet quite different. That pretty much sums up where public and popular messaging and behavior is on topics raised. Now... Some just look at film as a bit of fun, pink culture fluffery. That's one thing,.. it's the gratuitous sprinkled attempts at serious profundity where most critics "really" cringe. Not sure it would currently be possible to make a successful mass audience film where that wasn't the case. That says something... 🙃
It's definitely not sexist to view someone's only compelling attribute as their looks. It can equally be applied to good looking males so has nothing to do with their sex. Very beautiful people absolutely trade on their good looks, if they were ashamed of it being their only attribute they wouldn't trade on it.
100% I always thought the same of Christopher Hitchens, for example. He would have never be such a success if he wans't such a blue eyed, smooth voiced devil.
I didn't see the movie, but I think a lot of men believe she was always a good role model. But now she's turning on us? Oh well, she was getting kinda old anyway.
I also thought the subtle messages were confused! Nobody else I’ve spoken to got that impression from the film, I was starting to wonder if I needed to watch it again to see what I missed, so I feel very validated that you both thought the same!
Thank you for a very, very enjoyable discussion. It has been a pleasure to listen to two competent grownups talk about a rather bad, yet popular, movie without using false arguments or logical fallacies. So rare these days
Barbie has been successful at the box office, I don't know if it had any cultural cut through. I haven't heard any quotable lines or seen any memes. Will anyone will be talking about this in 5 years? I didn't watch Squid Game but I saw the memes. I don't think the audience will thinking about it much after seeing it.
@@SpeedfreakUK I saw two women sporting "I am Kenough" t-shirts today. It's quite heartening really that Ken is the character even women are choosing to identify with. Squid Game was really good, by the way. I am not excited about it having a second season though; it felt completed to me and I think a second season would do a disservice to the first.
Weeeelllll as a woman, I'm not going to judge the perspectives of Andrew Tate (well, okay, maybe a little), but certainly not Jordan Peterson, for one, because I have no concept of the male experience any more than they have any concept of mine. JBP is actively fighting against a culture that keeps telling boys and men that they're the worst thing about society... someone needs to give young men and boys, especially, encouragement against current acceptable opinion. He's doing excellent work, imo, and I can't agree that he's exaggerating anything, especially when he doesn't preach "pick-up artist" mentality. His message is to seek and accept responsibility and to aim higher. As for the movie, not having seen it but having read and listened to critiques, it sounds like a microcosm of Marxism itself, in its insistence on holding contradictory pov's and general disjointedness and unsustainability of theory. It also sounds like it might be purposefully kept as simple as possible with the intent of planting concepts into young, impressionable minds. And that said, maybe the existence of opposing concepts is there to keep up the idea of oppressed vs. oppressor. We're seeing a clear turn of the tide, I think, and the "oppressed" has become "oppressor" but as long as certain standards exist, especially aesthetic standards for which there is huge evidence against being simply about inequality, it's a narrative that group can continue to uphold as a reason for their continued (so-called) struggle. It's like... we're doing this to ourselves and blaming someone else. Isn't there a term for that kind of behavior? lolz
I agree that Peterson is no Andrew Tate and he has had some interesting and beneficial ideas. He is an anti-personal freedom, though, for women, and I dislike that.
@drionaitalia I wouldn't go so far as to say he's anti personal freedom for women, but he def has a very narrow, rigid ideal about what constitutes a fulfilled life for us (and what constitutes creativity, but that, while it does intersect, is another conversation). That said, I think he's mostly fighting against antinatalism, so I try not to take any of it too personally. All the same, I would not elect to see him in a clinical setting if I had the chance.
Great talk. I wonder if the movie has missed the zeitgeist? That being in development hell for a decade saw its alignment phase in and out, but now its messages are so infantile and cartoonish that they bounce off the audience like Ken running into a plastic wave? I haven't seen it and don't intend to. My 16 yo daughter has, because she went out with friends, got dressed up, and did the full Barbenheimer double. She talked about some things which just sounded goofy, and had annoyed her, mostly how the (American) "real world" was just as cartoony as Barbieland, and the ending resolved weirdly. I asked if she'd remember it in a year and she said "Oppenheimer totally". I've seen interviews with the director, and it seems she didn't have a clear messaging framework either - kept bouncing from point to point, mostly contradictory from one sentence to the next. So, for instance, and following up the social constructivist feminism point - either young girls with Barbies are malleable and blank slates that consumer culture overly influences, or they're tack-spitting teen radical nihilists, or bitter wine moms still somehow oppressed by the patriarchy. Barbieland is perfect, and perfectly equal, for Barbies and will ever be thus. But is so fragile that Ken with a book and an idea manages to upend social relations in a day. Okaayy. If a director doesn't have a coherent communications or semiotic theory about how images might be presented and interpreted, then that's going to result in narrative and thematic confusion.
When you listen to Gerwig talk it's obvious why the movie didn't make sense. She makes no sense and is contradictory and all over the place in her own thinking and communication.
Based on the change in attitude women in public have demonstrated towards me (and men in general, I have to assume) I have become incredibly cold and brutal in passing interactions with women in public in the last 5 years. This is accompanied by an incredibly intense rage one has to try quite hard to control. It genuinely touched my heart when Zoe said "We love each other. We need each other. We work well together." There's a part in the 7th Harry Potter film (bear with me) when Ron turns up after having fucked off somewhere and Hermione is furious with him. Harry tells Ron to just keep talking about the ball of light that went through his heart and brought him back to her, and she'll come around. If anyone wants to completely melt the cold rage fermenting in a lot of men in response to what has gone by the name feminism in the last few years, just keep saying "We love each other. We need each other. We work well together."
Women could start by living by their own rules. Accept responsibility to go with the rights they have demanded for a century or more. For example - all the women that fled Ukraine should go back and fight in the trenches - like their brothers, husbands etc were forced to do. Women want their fair share of political power with the vote. Time to take a fair share of the responsibility for defending the pokitical system in the military. Similarly When will the women who successfully paid Hervey Weinstein with sex for career advancement be prosecuted? If they paid him with cash we would call it bribery. They paid for It with sex and so they are somehow the victims? When women acce p t equality in the bad side of life, they will deserve equality in the good side!
Really - and are they going to force women to risk child birth, on pain of death? In the USA today, if a man refuses to volunteer for military service he is liable to 5 years in jail and a $250,000 fine. What sentence does a woman get who buys plan B? In Ukraine the women were allowed to flee to safety, the men had to stay and fight- is that ewuality? 400,000 Russian men forced to fight, zero women conscripted!
As a child of the 50s I understood the fascination of Barbie but it seemed to me that we rapidly came to realize that between the dimensions of the doll and her feet she was certainly not someone to emulate. Apparently all these years later we are embracing it. Feels pretty pathetic to me
I came out of this thinking that Barbie was brilliant. I don't think there was a single agenda being pushed, but rather Mattel wanted to use it to make several interconnected points and ultimately absolve itself of what it perceived to be its greatest sins. The movie was almost painfully meta, you really have to sit on it and think about which piece is self aware or self referential and that's why I honestly believe it to be a great piece of cinema. Whether you liked it or not, if you give it any serious consideration it forces you to think about what and why it's trying to say. We definitely aren't supposed to like the daughter's character, she and her friends do represent the Bratz dolls and the connection is made through Sasha's name and nickname in the film. I thought the film was basically looking at traditional, modern, and post modern female identities with Barbie coming into the awareness that she killed the traditional woman and instead of liberating them as she had thought, she instead accidently created the angst and anger of the postmodern feminist. When she comes back from the real world she does come to the realization that the kens are basically the mirrored reflection of women who have no power. Barbie sees that the original modeling of feminism failed to liberate women from the patriarchy because it didn't ever intend on destroying it, but rather its goal was to empower women to participate in it and it left the rest behind or even chastised them for wanting to have traditional lives. Queue the disgust towards Midge, again, very self aware. If patriarchy is leading men into the mental health crisis of today then there's no reason that these women wouldn't eventually feel those consequences too. Being a man who I guess now apologetically loves male gaze power fantasy, the Zack Snyder cut comment hurt me, but I also have to acknowledge that the whole treatment of the kens in the film is precisely how women are treated when written for the male gaze. They are supporting characters or villains, never the main protagonist. They're never conservatively covered. Their character arcs only develop if relevant to the male protagonist's development. If they do have plot relevant development it's accomplished with much less attention to detail and they generally owe some thanks for that to the male protagonist. I could probably go on, but I think it's very clear that this was not about hating or neutering men, rather to parody the treatment of women in media. Just compare the camera angles focussing on Gal Gadot in Zack Snyder's justice league to Wonder Woman, I needn't say more. The film doesn't make any explicit conclusions, everyone rallies together at the end, but it very much seems as though none of the characters are on the same page and I think that was necessary. Barbie doesn't want to be a Barbie anymore and that's vital to understand the tone of the movie leading up to that moment and it's only then, when she's in this deconstructed state of uncertainty, that her gender becomes realized. This leads me to conclude that it's saying gender is an identity that ought to be considered by integrating an understanding of the traditional/premodern, the modern, and the post modern by integrating them and moving beyond the superficial nature of ideology. It ought to be constructed as a part of our identity as we experience it in our relation to reality, which is why Barbie must leave Barbie land and the realm of ideas in order to find her truth. That's enough mansplaining for now.
I liked Asian Ken. He broke stereotypes being so handsome. My thinking about the movie is: I thought the Movie was anti Barbie. People love blonde Barbie or so I would assume. This just isn't understood that Barbie is love. As far as Barbie World that was fairly well done. If you deconstruct it. It's a bit of a childish point of view being without men workers being important with in it. Of course I didn't like the real world but they did push the story along. I thought the little daughters speech was ridiculously manipulative. Well I've talked long enough. :)
Iona, you're missing out if you haven't seen Gosling's earlier movies! Highly recommend Blue Valentine as an antidote to his role in this film. Otherwise, agree with your takes on this movie ... like you, it really worried me that the fact so many thought it was a great movie. Have our standards dropped that far?!
Don't worry about us, men are tough we can take it; I think it is great that a movie for little girls and their single mums can piss off so many commentators.
It is continuously baffling to me why people think Ryan gosling is a great actor. Utterly baffling. I assume in the case of women, they are confusing attractiveness with talent but men have no excuse.
If you get offended by a movie about barbies, you probably need to toughen up. Ryan was hilarious in it. Everything is preachy these days. I just block it out.
21:06 after few weeks in kid's toy box almost every Barbie becomes messy Barbie! I really don't believe that only I played with my dolls and ponies and did not put them in difficult positions, only dressing in clear clothes...
Hahaha! "Sí se puede" was the slogan of the party who won Argentine elections in 2015. The video you are referring to is of a man who has fallen from a bus stop roof during December 2022's World Cup celebrations. 😀
Fascinating stuff. Had to look it up, around 10 mins in the reference is David Deutsch. His 'Eight Criteria of Human Flourishing' are: Problem-solving: The capacity to form new explanations and designs. Optimism: The view that all evils are due to lack of knowledge. A sense of beauty: Including the capacity for aesthetic judgment. Truth: Seeking truth and a disdain for deception. Moral Goodness: Including altruism and a sense of justice. Individuality: As opposed to conformism. Conjecture: Proposing new theories and explanations. Criticism: Testing and eliminating errors in explanations.
I enjoyed the movie. It is a toy movie, so not something to be taken seriously and there is only so much you can fit into a 60minute something film. If you want something deep, debate worthy, problem solving, serious and educational, then a documentary on feminism might be better suited for you.
Hello, thanks for making this point. Yes it is a toy movie. Movies do have influence on young people. Think of all the all the Nissan Skyline imports from Japan bought up by 16 year old boys after Fast and Furious? All the goth girls after Twilight? Big round glasses on young girls after Harry Potter? All the cosplay at Comic Cons? All the douchey 20 year old dudes saying, “You’re so money!” After Swingers? The list goes on. Media has its influence on the youth. To think that young woman won’t see this movie as a confirmation that men are eternal boys and that the patriarchy is to blame, is perhaps naive. I’m sure will find out.
@@SorenCicchini right again the activist is making a point with The Barbie movie. Just like the previous movies I listed. These movies cause a behavioural change in the viewer to adopt the message of the film as part of their identity. Making the film much more than just a toy movie. This is why the Barbie movie or any movie needs to be critically analyzed and discussed. Same goes for a feminist documentary who’s message is upfront and therefore easier to criticize.
Really 20 year old Supreme court judges? 🤣🤣Were the writer/s on drugs? Its really sad that we live in a world where a stupid movie by Greta Gerwig earns twice what a good movie from Christopher Nolan one of the most brilliant directors today! Pathetic! I'm proud to say in India Oppenheimer beat Barbie and earned at the very least 3 times what Barbie did. (Pleasantly surprised coz we all grew up watching bollywood garbage and don't even know what good movie means till one gets exposed to Hollywood - pre 2000s movies). Really loved Iona's view on American movie portrayal of families. I thought this "love you" 24*7, expressive family is a real thing across western nations. I used to wonder if something is wrong with us coz personally I'd feel weird if my parents or loved ones told me they loved me. Would be too much drama for me. But I'm glad to know there are other people around the world who are not so expressive, hugging - I love you type.🤣 Overall great discussion. thanks for summarising the movie and saving the time & money for me.
It seems to me that that 2001 pastiche was an advert for Mattel that reminds me a little of the old Virginia Slims adverts. They would have a sepia image of a bygone era, giving a supposed (and likely fallacious) scenario in which women's freedom to smoke wherever or whenever they chose was curtailed by oppression at the hands of male authority, juxtaposed with a fashionable and colourful model smoking a cigarette specifically designed "to compliment delicate feminine hands" and therefore make the claim that their product played an essential role in women's emancipation. Not only are the little girls in that scene dressed in sepia, as if bold colours have yet to be invented, but the claim is every bit as ahistorical as I suspect the anecdotes in Virginia Slims ads were. There was never a time when only baby dolls were available for girls because fashion dolls predate baby dolls! Mary Queen of Scots had fashion dolls in the 16th century, whereas baby dolls only really arrived in the mid-nineteenth century. Barbie wasn't the first, and nor was the German Lilli dolls she was a blatant rip off of. But basically the messaging is "patriarchy didn't want you to have oir product but we have fought for your right to our product so celebrate your freedom by buying our product!"
Very excited for this! I haven't watched the movie - I also haven't watched Game of Thrones by now btw, I really don't watch movies n stuff very often, just to clarify it's not that I didn't watch it out of spite, it will just take me a few decades to get around to it at my current rate (lol). But I am looking forward to hear your take on it! My intuition wanted me to not like it, and for that reason I am trying my best to withhold judgement
I have no problem with the term, 'misandry'. Hate is hate, and feminism is rife with hatred for men. I get that she doesn't want to create another 'victim' group as that is the toxic basis of feminist ideology, but actually being victimized and creating a whole ideology around it as your identity are two different things. Men and boys ARE victims of feminist hate today, and that has to be called out wherever it appears. It is not just 'silly'. It is misandrist.
I enjoyed Barbie. I thought it was hilarious. I just felt odd that the storyline decision was made in this direction, regardless of the merits. Ken could've been more like a funny afterthought then an Us vs Them tribal battle, even if done with a fair amount of parody.
As a man in Los Angeles I am more than offended. I'm gone. I simply want nothing to do with women. Women talk among themselves about their feminist values. Women forget that men were not involved in the conversation. When women bring the conversation outside and men hear what women really think, men are shocked and appalled. Greta Gerwig made this movie with the intent of bringing the conversation out in the open. She felt that women have enough social power to allow for the truth to be told. Barbie is what women really think. I no longer date women. I don't even speak to my mother anymore. I am cordial with women in public, but that is the extent of my interaction with women. The dirty secret is that the most cost-effective way for a man to get his sexual needs met is through fee-for-service.
The lack of pushback from women makes me despair. I see plenty of women online pushing back, thankfully, but I see almost none pushing back in real life, which translates to me as they agree with this.
@@markpostgate2551 I just came back from seeing it. It cost me $5 at the matinee. On one hand, the message was worse than I thought that it would be. On the other hand I was less annoyed by Kate McKinnon as Weird Barbie, America Ferrera as the mother, and Ariana Greenblatt as the daughter than I thought that I would be. An Irish guy on RUclips named Despot does a three-hour analysis of all of the misandry.
@@rogerblakely7453 Don't you feel bad about lining their pockets? They are really cashing in on the hate watching. Perhaps they should have gone full paradoxical with the slogan, beyond "if you love Barbie this is the movie for you. If you hate Barbie this is the movie for you." to "If you hate this movie this is the movie for you." or beyond that "if you hate our cynical and manipulative profiteering send us some more money!" - "Please don't buy all our Ken dolls; we would hate that!" (That is the claim made in one of the scenes, because of the "principles" supposedly) - in a controlled duopoly there is no anti-estblishment vote! Vote Ken or Barbie it is still a vote for Mattel. I see a lot of people in "I am Kenough" t-shirts and I am thinking "aw, that is kind of encouraging that that is the side you're siding with... but you're still dupes!"
@@markpostgate2551 All men must see Barbie on the big screen. You have to pay them. There is no way around it. Barbie is the cultural event of the decade. Greta Gerwig wanted to tell us what women really think, and we grateful to her for her effort. Last year there was a psychiatrist in Los Angeles, Dr. Mark McDonald, who wrote the following on a blog post: "American women today suffer from a combination of emotional and characterologic pathology that renders them unfit to be romantic partners to men." This movie proves his point. There is so much going on in the movie that even the reviewers can't point all of it out. Here is something that the women on this channel could explain. The Indigo Girls' song Closer To Fine was played three times. I was in college when the song came out in 1989 (the same year the Taylor Swift was born), and I remember it as a rite of passage for college women. The movie is about transmitting Generation X feminism to younger generations.
Insufferable to listen to. My complaints of all things woke is that they take themselves so seriously. This movie didn’t. It was bubblegum. It was pink. It was silly. It didn’t take itself too seriously. It was a fun night out. And, you were looking for deep, philosophical high art? I think you missed the boat and are guilty of the very things the wokies do themselves. I think lightening up a bit may be in order.
What drives me crazy about the Barbie movie is how it's just the Ghostbusters premise of trying incorporate politics into movie publicity realized. It's utterly boggus and only hollows any claim to seriousness these people have, and that includes the people who hate it so much. Probably the most grounded review of the movie I got was from my little sister "I was kinda disappointed it had nothing to do with the barbie universe movies I grew up watching, but it wasn't bad".
The entire movie was mocking exactly you and your extreme sensitivities. Barbie world with full feminist ideals is plastic and fake. She chose to be real because it’s better for both men and women. Greta did a great job pushing EVERYONES buttons to get both men and women thinking about what Barbie represents. We don’t get upset that teddy bears are not a true reflective of real bears and how they appear. Never understood why Barbie was so criticized until I went to university and realized this was the gateway to the perversion that is modern feminism. It was a fun, funny, musical thought provoking movie and at 47 and a mother I can only imagine those that dislike dislike everything including themselves. Lighten up you clearly have nothing going on if it bothered you
I disagree. I’m a crusty old anti-woke dude, but I enjoyed the movie. My take was that in reality, it was plugging humanity, humour, and motherhood over the reverse themes (which were made to look very unfriendly and unattractive). All the preachy ideological characters were completely unrelatable (which, after all is the case in real life.) I have admired Margot Robbie since her brilliant performance in ‘ITonya’ (in which she was not glamorous or beautiful.) ps. I warmed up to ‘Fuck-Off’ Brit girl by the end of this discussion & started to like her big time (despite our disagreements over Barbie.) If she starts that OnlyFans account, I am signing up! 🤣
Haha, yeah, let's create a film made by MRAs that paints all women as dim-witted bimbos (whilst simultaneously oppressing men) and indulge the most over the top male self-pity and woman-hating and when women inevitably don't like it, let's just act like women-hating MRAs and claim they don't like it because it isn't pandering to them enough. 😂😂😂
![Baby Kia - GLOVES & DRACS (BLACK AF1s) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ajm8LeB0qQk/mqdefault.jpg)
“The Barbie Movie” is an insult to ANYONE capable of critical thought!
No, it's nowhere near THAT good. The mere idea of such a movie is an insult to any organism higher on the scale of evolution than an oyster. (Am I being too harsh?)
I always thought a horse phase was an adolescent girl thing. It felt odd to transfer it onto the patriarchy.
Yeah that’s a good point. There weren’t many dudes sitting around with horse trapper-keepers in school.
yeah that is very strange many a woman has had a horse loving phase I grew up hearing about it jokingly in romantic comedies. It seems very projective of women to put that on men I mean as a young boy I thought huh funny I guess girls just like horses and boys like things like tigers and bears and stuff because it was natural for dudes everywhere to like an animal if not a gun or tank that had claws
It might be that Greta (or Noah) remembered mothers shouldn't let their babies be cowboys.
To the older woman, Iona. "Beauty" when you are older as a women is not about looking like you are 20 years old.
It's both the love and need for beauty in life, and the passion it inspires. An older woman CAN bring even more beauty to the world than a younger woman, and part of that comes from doing what you can with your aging self, but the VAST majority comes from UNDERSTANDING the power and need for beauty in the world and bringing MORE to it in the world.
There is a generation of women, who would be over 100 now, who've passed away, that I've was blessed knowing. They weren't rock stars or Astronauts or CEOs, but they are more memorable and deeply shaped my life and the lives of other good people I know simply by bringing more genuine goodness and beauty into the world. They created a lasting effect that I can honestly say is many generations long. This is a more memorable legacy even most of the men of that era.
I feel like the lesson for young women is to be granted a short time of beauty so they UNDERSTAND it's value the preciousness of it going forward. And how important it is to bring more to the world.
I feel like nearly all women of these recent generations have instead forgotten this and become vapid shells of what they could be.
A truly beautiful statement about beauty. I am 76 so this resonates. Thank you.
Physical Beauty is a mating Display, signaling strengh, health and good genes.
It's a means to an end, which is to improve the chances of the next Generation who are here to replace us eventually.
The courting and mating Phase is not suppossed to last forever.
After the mating Phase ended as we grow older we were supposed to raise and lead the younger Generations.
We usually didn't have the luxury to complain about the fact, that our 60 year old asses aren't as tight as our asses at 16.
Having watched the film and quite a few reviews, I've come to the conclusion that there was no clear, coherent feminist message in the film. Maybe the writers thought there was, but I cant see it. I even saw an interview with Gerwig and Margot Robbie where they were asked about how the film was feminist and they seemed unable to articulate why themselves. The most embarrassing bit in the film was the rant by America Ferrera. And the way it ended in Barbie Land I found puzzling: the Barbies realised they treated the Kens badly but then decided to stick with mostly the same set up; for me this undermined any potential feminist message the film was trying to pass on.
After all that, I just wanted to say I enjoyed the interview!
Thanks for listening, Nick!
Oh
Barbie is a masterpiece of propaganda.
The message of the movie is that all women are beautiful and perfect and all men are at best useless and at worst dangerous. It's Mein Kampf written by Gloria Steinem. However it is very beautifully camouflaged as a comedy, a musical and a silly children's movie.
Therefore if any men are offended by the movie women can simply brush that criticism off by saying "It's a children's movie about a plastic doll! Why are you getting offended? You must be a very insecure man." (It's not a children's movie; it's rated PG-13 not G. This is not a new version of "Toy Story".)
The inclusion of Allan is brilliant. He is an included as an example of a nice man, a man who is an ally of women, probably gay, so there is one token good male character. The catch is however that even he is depicted as being clumsy, timid and submissive to the women. He is a male "Uncle Tom".
I think that the movie was produced to promote anti-men sexist bigotry and it does so brilliantly.
I can imagine the opposite movie being created with all the men good and all the women bad. In Iran.
The movie is mocking modern feminism that’s why Barbie world is fake and plastic, the real world is better for both men and women hence Barbie wanting to be human
Iona is such a gem. This is the best discourse on the movie I’ve encountered
Thank you, Pat!
That’s one of the sexiest voices I’ve ever heard. I wish she’d record a bunch of love poetry so she could read me to sleep. What a lovely voice.
I haven’t seen the movie so I won’t opine on it. I just love her voice.
Thank you!
Sounds horrible. Ideology aside, why has the quality of writing in entertainment (across the board) been in such decline, over the last 10-20 years?
In real life, the Board of Mattel is 7 men and 5 women, which makes the whole presentation of the Board a complete strawman.
Risk averse producers and corporate executives afraid of missing out on a dollar by offending a market segment. Producers want guaranteed returns, and the most reliable way to get them is to trade on existing goodwill, so they do a lot of remakes, "reboots", origin stories and series/franchises. Twitter's amplification of fringe voices has fooled corporate executives that unless they actively appease every activist they hear about, they risk alienating a market segment and losing money, so they hire diversity consultants and activists into creative roles. These people are not skilled storytellers but they are now the ones telling the stories. Instead of writing complex, flawed characters that undertake the classic hero's journey, facing adversity, learning and improving before overcoming their challenges, they write simple self-insert characters that serve as "diversity" representatives that demonstrate how capable they are by immediately being excellent at everything. Their lack of writing skill means that they often show the capability of these characters by comparison with the established characters whose goodwill is being exploited or with disposable and ineffectual heterosexual white men. The other approach is to race-swap or gender-swap established beloved characters or openly have them express abnormal sexual preferences and argue that any criticism of the art is rooted in racism, sexism or homophobia, relying on the resultant online bickering between the aggrieved fans of the exploited intellectual property on one side and diversity representation activists and the production team on the other side to serve as advertising. The result is often a very substandard narrative in which a beloved established character appears but has little to do except be gay, black or female and awesome, or be true to their original representation but bitter and impotent so as to make a new, young gay, black or female character look better by comparison.
The internet has robbed youth of the ability to think and daydream, they stare at phones and read other peoples junk online, also they can no longer spell as there is no need to write anything anymore. It will never get better until tech dies and people go back to pencil and paper and reading books
What I do like, is not that the movie itself functions well as a mirror, but that the reactions to it seems to accomplish something like that. The movie reactions seem all over the place. Many are confused, many are shallow, many are performative, many contain contradictions. And quite a few are intelligent, yet quite different.
That pretty much sums up where public and popular messaging and behavior is on topics raised.
Now... Some just look at film as a bit of fun, pink culture fluffery.
That's one thing,.. it's the gratuitous sprinkled attempts at serious profundity where most critics "really" cringe. Not sure it would currently be possible to make a successful mass audience film where that wasn't the case. That says something... 🙃
“I don’t do only fans”😂😂
She's hilarious!!
@@Quillette Aww, thanks!
Lol I got so excited when I found out she's on Quillette now, literally three of my favorite journalists
@@magnusarvid4161 Goodness! Thank you. I am so flattered.
I died laughing
It's definitely not sexist to view someone's only compelling attribute as their looks.
It can equally be applied to good looking males so has nothing to do with their sex.
Very beautiful people absolutely trade on their good looks, if they were ashamed of it being their only attribute they wouldn't trade on it.
Margot Robbie definitely trades on her looks. If she weren't beautiful she would not have a film career. Her acting is "just so".
100%
I always thought the same of Christopher Hitchens, for example. He would have never be such a success if he wans't such a blue eyed, smooth voiced devil.
I didn't see the movie, but I think a lot of men believe she was always a good role model. But now she's turning on us? Oh well, she was getting kinda old anyway.
13:19 - You should have seen *Bladerunner 2049* before Goslin's cast in Barbie. He's really good with other types of roles too!
Oh yes! I had forgotten that film and I really enjoyed it.
I thought it was the perfect film for him. He was an emotionless robot, perfectly matched to his acting range.
I also thought the subtle messages were confused! Nobody else I’ve spoken to got that impression from the film, I was starting to wonder if I needed to watch it again to see what I missed, so I feel very validated that you both thought the same!
Great interview and conversation. Keep up the great work Zoe/Quillette
Thanks for your support!
Thank you for a very, very enjoyable discussion. It has been a pleasure to listen to two competent grownups talk about a rather bad, yet popular, movie without using false arguments or logical fallacies. So rare these days
Thank you, Zarko!
Barbie has been successful at the box office, I don't know if it had any cultural cut through. I haven't heard any quotable lines or seen any memes. Will anyone will be talking about this in 5 years? I didn't watch Squid Game but I saw the memes. I don't think the audience will thinking about it much after seeing it.
“I’m Kenough” is the only meme I’ve seen
Seen posts of women dumping their boyfriends because they "got the wrong message".
@@killcat1971 does the movie's fans being psychotic count as a meme? Maybe it does.
@@SpeedfreakUK
I saw two women sporting "I am Kenough" t-shirts today. It's quite heartening really that Ken is the character even women are choosing to identify with.
Squid Game was really good, by the way. I am not excited about it having a second season though; it felt completed to me and I think a second season would do a disservice to the first.
The tag line to the film should be a big giveaway 🙄😂
Weeeelllll as a woman, I'm not going to judge the perspectives of Andrew Tate (well, okay, maybe a little), but certainly not Jordan Peterson, for one, because I have no concept of the male experience any more than they have any concept of mine. JBP is actively fighting against a culture that keeps telling boys and men that they're the worst thing about society... someone needs to give young men and boys, especially, encouragement against current acceptable opinion. He's doing excellent work, imo, and I can't agree that he's exaggerating anything, especially when he doesn't preach "pick-up artist" mentality. His message is to seek and accept responsibility and to aim higher.
As for the movie, not having seen it but having read and listened to critiques, it sounds like a microcosm of Marxism itself, in its insistence on holding contradictory pov's and general disjointedness and unsustainability of theory. It also sounds like it might be purposefully kept as simple as possible with the intent of planting concepts into young, impressionable minds. And that said, maybe the existence of opposing concepts is there to keep up the idea of oppressed vs. oppressor. We're seeing a clear turn of the tide, I think, and the "oppressed" has become "oppressor" but as long as certain standards exist, especially aesthetic standards for which there is huge evidence against being simply about inequality, it's a narrative that group can continue to uphold as a reason for their continued (so-called) struggle. It's like... we're doing this to ourselves and blaming someone else. Isn't there a term for that kind of behavior? lolz
I agree that Peterson is no Andrew Tate and he has had some interesting and beneficial ideas. He is an anti-personal freedom, though, for women, and I dislike that.
@drionaitalia I wouldn't go so far as to say he's anti personal freedom for women, but he def has a very narrow, rigid ideal about what constitutes a fulfilled life for us (and what constitutes creativity, but that, while it does intersect, is another conversation). That said, I think he's mostly fighting against antinatalism, so I try not to take any of it too personally. All the same, I would not elect to see him in a clinical setting if I had the chance.
8:15 Mattel should say that Barbie got her Nobel for advances in polymer physics.
Great talk. I wonder if the movie has missed the zeitgeist? That being in development hell for a decade saw its alignment phase in and out, but now its messages are so infantile and cartoonish that they bounce off the audience like Ken running into a plastic wave? I haven't seen it and don't intend to. My 16 yo daughter has, because she went out with friends, got dressed up, and did the full Barbenheimer double. She talked about some things which just sounded goofy, and had annoyed her, mostly how the (American) "real world" was just as cartoony as Barbieland, and the ending resolved weirdly. I asked if she'd remember it in a year and she said "Oppenheimer totally".
I've seen interviews with the director, and it seems she didn't have a clear messaging framework either - kept bouncing from point to point, mostly contradictory from one sentence to the next. So, for instance, and following up the social constructivist feminism point - either young girls with Barbies are malleable and blank slates that consumer culture overly influences, or they're tack-spitting teen radical nihilists, or bitter wine moms still somehow oppressed by the patriarchy. Barbieland is perfect, and perfectly equal, for Barbies and will ever be thus. But is so fragile that Ken with a book and an idea manages to upend social relations in a day. Okaayy. If a director doesn't have a coherent communications or semiotic theory about how images might be presented and interpreted, then that's going to result in narrative and thematic confusion.
Thank you for listening! I think that's a pretty astute summary.
When you listen to Gerwig talk it's obvious why the movie didn't make sense. She makes no sense and is contradictory and all over the place in her own thinking and communication.
Based on the change in attitude women in public have demonstrated towards me (and men in general, I have to assume) I have become incredibly cold and brutal in passing interactions with women in public in the last 5 years. This is accompanied by an incredibly intense rage one has to try quite hard to control. It genuinely touched my heart when Zoe said "We love each other. We need each other. We work well together." There's a part in the 7th Harry Potter film (bear with me) when Ron turns up after having fucked off somewhere and Hermione is furious with him. Harry tells Ron to just keep talking about the ball of light that went through his heart and brought him back to her, and she'll come around. If anyone wants to completely melt the cold rage fermenting in a lot of men in response to what has gone by the name feminism in the last few years, just keep saying "We love each other. We need each other. We work well together."
Women could start by living by their own rules. Accept responsibility to go with the rights they have demanded for a century or more.
For example - all the women that fled Ukraine should go back and fight in the trenches - like their brothers, husbands etc were forced to do. Women want their fair share of political power with the vote. Time to take a fair share of the responsibility for defending the pokitical system in the military.
Similarly When will the women who successfully paid Hervey Weinstein with sex for career advancement be prosecuted? If they paid him with cash we would call it bribery. They paid for It with sex and so they are somehow the victims?
When women acce p t equality in the bad side of life, they will deserve equality in the good side!
@@jonahtwhale1779 I'm happy to risk dying in war when you risk death in childbirth.
Really - and are they going to force women to risk child birth, on pain of death? In the USA today, if a man refuses to volunteer for military service he is liable to 5 years in jail and a $250,000 fine. What sentence does a woman get who buys plan B?
In Ukraine the women were allowed to flee to safety, the men had to stay and fight- is that ewuality?
400,000 Russian men forced to fight, zero women conscripted!
They're saying it much better than I ever could...
Love Iona, great get for Quillette! Grats, Iona! Poor Gosling though 😂
Thank you!
This video comment was really good.
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you, Albert!
As a child of the 50s I understood the fascination of Barbie but it seemed to me that we rapidly came to realize that between the dimensions of the doll and her feet she was certainly not someone to emulate. Apparently all these years later we are embracing it. Feels pretty pathetic to me
Barbie tldr have your cake and eat it too
I came out of this thinking that Barbie was brilliant. I don't think there was a single agenda being pushed, but rather Mattel wanted to use it to make several interconnected points and ultimately absolve itself of what it perceived to be its greatest sins. The movie was almost painfully meta, you really have to sit on it and think about which piece is self aware or self referential and that's why I honestly believe it to be a great piece of cinema. Whether you liked it or not, if you give it any serious consideration it forces you to think about what and why it's trying to say.
We definitely aren't supposed to like the daughter's character, she and her friends do represent the Bratz dolls and the connection is made through Sasha's name and nickname in the film. I thought the film was basically looking at traditional, modern, and post modern female identities with Barbie coming into the awareness that she killed the traditional woman and instead of liberating them as she had thought, she instead accidently created the angst and anger of the postmodern feminist.
When she comes back from the real world she does come to the realization that the kens are basically the mirrored reflection of women who have no power. Barbie sees that the original modeling of feminism failed to liberate women from the patriarchy because it didn't ever intend on destroying it, but rather its goal was to empower women to participate in it and it left the rest behind or even chastised them for wanting to have traditional lives. Queue the disgust towards Midge, again, very self aware. If patriarchy is leading men into the mental health crisis of today then there's no reason that these women wouldn't eventually feel those consequences too.
Being a man who I guess now apologetically loves male gaze power fantasy, the Zack Snyder cut comment hurt me, but I also have to acknowledge that the whole treatment of the kens in the film is precisely how women are treated when written for the male gaze. They are supporting characters or villains, never the main protagonist. They're never conservatively covered. Their character arcs only develop if relevant to the male protagonist's development. If they do have plot relevant development it's accomplished with much less attention to detail and they generally owe some thanks for that to the male protagonist. I could probably go on, but I think it's very clear that this was not about hating or neutering men, rather to parody the treatment of women in media. Just compare the camera angles focussing on Gal Gadot in Zack Snyder's justice league to Wonder Woman, I needn't say more.
The film doesn't make any explicit conclusions, everyone rallies together at the end, but it very much seems as though none of the characters are on the same page and I think that was necessary. Barbie doesn't want to be a Barbie anymore and that's vital to understand the tone of the movie leading up to that moment and it's only then, when she's in this deconstructed state of uncertainty, that her gender becomes realized. This leads me to conclude that it's saying gender is an identity that ought to be considered by integrating an understanding of the traditional/premodern, the modern, and the post modern by integrating them and moving beyond the superficial nature of ideology. It ought to be constructed as a part of our identity as we experience it in our relation to reality, which is why Barbie must leave Barbie land and the realm of ideas in order to find her truth.
That's enough mansplaining for now.
Ken was the hero
The pink was comedy. It's pantomime
I liked Asian Ken. He broke stereotypes being so handsome. My thinking about the movie is: I thought the Movie was anti Barbie. People love blonde Barbie or so I would assume. This just isn't understood that Barbie is love. As far as Barbie World that was fairly well done. If you deconstruct it. It's a bit of a childish point of view being without men workers being important with in it. Of course I didn't like the real world but they did push the story along. I thought the little daughters speech was ridiculously manipulative. Well I've talked long enough. :)
Iona, you're missing out if you haven't seen Gosling's earlier movies! Highly recommend Blue Valentine as an antidote to his role in this film. Otherwise, agree with your takes on this movie ... like you, it really worried me that the fact so many thought it was a great movie. Have our standards dropped that far?!
Thanks, Betwana! I shall check out Blue Valentine.
Blue Valentine is excellent. Good recommendation.
Don't worry about us, men are tough we can take it; I think it is great that a movie for little girls and their single mums can piss off so many commentators.
Except men and boys aren't doing great. Education, menai health, homelessness
I not going to argue with that but it isn't new but you missed out a lack of a sense of humour.
@@vinylrebellion
It is continuously baffling to me why people think Ryan gosling is a great actor. Utterly baffling. I assume in the case of women, they are confusing attractiveness with talent but men have no excuse.
If you get offended by a movie about barbies, you probably need to toughen up. Ryan was hilarious in it. Everything is preachy these days. I just block it out.
21:06 after few weeks in kid's toy box almost every Barbie becomes messy Barbie! I really don't believe that only I played with my dolls and ponies and did not put them in difficult positions, only dressing in clear clothes...
I heard the writers incorporated two plots so the ending was muddled.
They're really taking the film seriously.
It is typical Femunist triumphalism!
However, the Ken journey into Patriarchy was surprisingly good positive.
Hahaha! "Sí se puede" was the slogan of the party who won Argentine elections in 2015. The video you are referring to is of a man who has fallen from a bus stop roof during December 2022's World Cup celebrations. 😀
Fascinating stuff. Had to look it up, around 10 mins in the reference is David Deutsch. His 'Eight Criteria of Human Flourishing' are:
Problem-solving: The capacity to form new explanations and designs.
Optimism: The view that all evils are due to lack of knowledge.
A sense of beauty: Including the capacity for aesthetic judgment.
Truth: Seeking truth and a disdain for deception.
Moral Goodness: Including altruism and a sense of justice.
Individuality: As opposed to conformism.
Conjecture: Proposing new theories and explanations.
Criticism: Testing and eliminating errors in explanations.
I enjoyed the movie. It is a toy movie, so not something to be taken seriously and there is only so much you can fit into a 60minute something film. If you want something deep, debate worthy, problem solving, serious and educational, then a documentary on feminism might be better suited for you.
Hello, thanks for making this point. Yes it is a toy movie. Movies do have influence on young people. Think of all the all the Nissan Skyline imports from Japan bought up by 16 year old boys after Fast and Furious? All the goth girls after Twilight? Big round glasses on young girls after Harry Potter? All the cosplay at Comic Cons? All the douchey 20 year old dudes saying, “You’re so money!” After Swingers? The list goes on. Media has its influence on the youth. To think that young woman won’t see this movie as a confirmation that men are eternal boys and that the patriarchy is to blame, is perhaps naive. I’m sure will find out.
If you cannot recognise the political messaging, the activist has achieved her goal.
@@SorenCicchini right again the activist is making a point with The Barbie movie. Just like the previous movies I listed. These movies cause a behavioural change in the viewer to adopt the message of the film as part of their identity. Making the film much more than just a toy movie. This is why the Barbie movie or any movie needs to be critically analyzed and discussed. Same goes for a feminist documentary who’s message is upfront and therefore easier to criticize.
Who's really going to want to see the next Margo Robbie movie other than the girls who liked this one?
For some reason, I don't blame her for this.
Verily, these women surely speaketh the truth about this awful, pretentious film.
Really 20 year old Supreme court judges? 🤣🤣Were the writer/s on drugs? Its really sad that we live in a world where a stupid movie by Greta Gerwig earns twice what a good movie from Christopher Nolan one of the most brilliant directors today! Pathetic! I'm proud to say in India Oppenheimer beat Barbie and earned at the very least 3 times what Barbie did. (Pleasantly surprised coz we all grew up watching bollywood garbage and don't even know what good movie means till one gets exposed to Hollywood - pre 2000s movies). Really loved Iona's view on American movie portrayal of families. I thought this "love you" 24*7, expressive family is a real thing across western nations. I used to wonder if something is wrong with us coz personally I'd feel weird if my parents or loved ones told me they loved me. Would be too much drama for me. But I'm glad to know there are other people around the world who are not so expressive, hugging - I love you type.🤣 Overall great discussion. thanks for summarising the movie and saving the time & money for me.
Thanks for listening!
It seems to me that that 2001 pastiche was an advert for Mattel that reminds me a little of the old Virginia Slims adverts. They would have a sepia image of a bygone era, giving a supposed (and likely fallacious) scenario in which women's freedom to smoke wherever or whenever they chose was curtailed by oppression at the hands of male authority, juxtaposed with a fashionable and colourful model smoking a cigarette specifically designed "to compliment delicate feminine hands" and therefore make the claim that their product played an essential role in women's emancipation. Not only are the little girls in that scene dressed in sepia, as if bold colours have yet to be invented, but the claim is every bit as ahistorical as I suspect the anecdotes in Virginia Slims ads were. There was never a time when only baby dolls were available for girls because fashion dolls predate baby dolls! Mary Queen of Scots had fashion dolls in the 16th century, whereas baby dolls only really arrived in the mid-nineteenth century. Barbie wasn't the first, and nor was the German Lilli dolls she was a blatant rip off of. But basically the messaging is "patriarchy didn't want you to have oir product but we have fought for your right to our product so celebrate your freedom by buying our product!"
Barbie is an anti-woke masterpiece.
The Nobel prize medal is a fashion accessory that every woman deserves to wear #gynocentrism
Is that a quote from the movie?
Only in an early edit @@cut_thru
Great, thanks!!
Thanks for listening, Antii!
Nice, rational discussion.
Thanks for listening, Paul!
Classic Quillette, totally centrist, logical, able to see both sides
19:52 Time travel... Or a brush and some running shoes.
We can all level up. Don't make excuses, just admit you don't value it.
Very excited for this! I haven't watched the movie - I also haven't watched Game of Thrones by now btw, I really don't watch movies n stuff very often, just to clarify it's not that I didn't watch it out of spite, it will just take me a few decades to get around to it at my current rate (lol). But I am looking forward to hear your take on it! My intuition wanted me to not like it, and for that reason I am trying my best to withhold judgement
duh
a man basher movie, this trend actually started in the 80's
I have no problem with the term, 'misandry'. Hate is hate, and feminism is rife with hatred for men. I get that she doesn't want to create another 'victim' group as that is the toxic basis of feminist ideology, but actually being victimized and creating a whole ideology around it as your identity are two different things. Men and boys ARE victims of feminist hate today, and that has to be called out wherever it appears. It is not just 'silly'. It is misandrist.
I enjoyed Barbie. I thought it was hilarious. I just felt odd that the storyline decision was made in this direction, regardless of the merits. Ken could've been more like a funny afterthought then an Us vs Them tribal battle, even if done with a fair amount of parody.
Barbie is a toy for little girls with little girl brains. Barbie the movie is for women with little girl brains.
Wow these guys are real party poopers. They must want to be FOX contributors.
Great interview :)
thanks!
Haven't seen it nor will l ever. I caught a two second clip and got a migraine. And nausea.
As a man in Los Angeles I am more than offended. I'm gone. I simply want nothing to do with women.
Women talk among themselves about their feminist values. Women forget that men were not involved in the conversation. When women bring the conversation outside and men hear what women really think, men are shocked and appalled.
Greta Gerwig made this movie with the intent of bringing the conversation out in the open. She felt that women have enough social power to allow for the truth to be told. Barbie is what women really think.
I no longer date women. I don't even speak to my mother anymore. I am cordial with women in public, but that is the extent of my interaction with women. The dirty secret is that the most cost-effective way for a man to get his sexual needs met is through fee-for-service.
The lack of pushback from women makes me despair. I see plenty of women online pushing back, thankfully, but I see almost none pushing back in real life, which translates to me as they agree with this.
@@markpostgate2551 I just came back from seeing it. It cost me $5 at the matinee. On one hand, the message was worse than I thought that it would be. On the other hand I was less annoyed by Kate McKinnon as Weird Barbie, America Ferrera as the mother, and Ariana Greenblatt as the daughter than I thought that I would be. An Irish guy on RUclips named Despot does a three-hour analysis of all of the misandry.
@@rogerblakely7453
Don't you feel bad about lining their pockets? They are really cashing in on the hate watching. Perhaps they should have gone full paradoxical with the slogan, beyond "if you love Barbie this is the movie for you. If you hate Barbie this is the movie for you." to "If you hate this movie this is the movie for you." or beyond that "if you hate our cynical and manipulative profiteering send us some more money!" - "Please don't buy all our Ken dolls; we would hate that!" (That is the claim made in one of the scenes, because of the "principles" supposedly) - in a controlled duopoly there is no anti-estblishment vote! Vote Ken or Barbie it is still a vote for Mattel. I see a lot of people in "I am Kenough" t-shirts and I am thinking "aw, that is kind of encouraging that that is the side you're siding with... but you're still dupes!"
@@markpostgate2551 All men must see Barbie on the big screen. You have to pay them. There is no way around it. Barbie is the cultural event of the decade. Greta Gerwig wanted to tell us what women really think, and we grateful to her for her effort. Last year there was a psychiatrist in Los Angeles, Dr. Mark McDonald, who wrote the following on a blog post: "American women today suffer from a combination of emotional and characterologic pathology that renders them unfit to be romantic partners to men." This movie proves his point.
There is so much going on in the movie that even the reviewers can't point all of it out. Here is something that the women on this channel could explain. The Indigo Girls' song Closer To Fine was played three times. I was in college when the song came out in 1989 (the same year the Taylor Swift was born), and I remember it as a rite of passage for college women. The movie is about transmitting Generation X feminism to younger generations.
The world burns and Barbie melts discuss
The entire Barbie franchise has been girlboss feminist propaganda from it's inception. Oppenheimer was an equally terrible film.
Don't know if I would say oppenheimer was terrible but it definitely wasn't nearly as good as it is hyped to be.
Insufferable to listen to. My complaints of all things woke is that they take themselves so seriously. This movie didn’t. It was bubblegum. It was pink. It was silly. It didn’t take itself too seriously. It was a fun night out. And, you were looking for deep, philosophical high art? I think you missed the boat and are guilty of the very things the wokies do themselves. I think lightening up a bit may be in order.
True, unless you actually listen to what the people behind the film actually said about it.
I don’t like prepackaged, pablum feminism.
Good
What drives me crazy about the Barbie movie is how it's just the Ghostbusters premise of trying incorporate politics into movie publicity realized.
It's utterly boggus and only hollows any claim to seriousness these people have, and that includes the people who hate it so much.
Probably the most grounded review of the movie I got was from my little sister "I was kinda disappointed it had nothing to do with the barbie universe movies I grew up watching, but it wasn't bad".
The entire movie was mocking exactly you and your extreme sensitivities. Barbie world with full feminist ideals is plastic and fake. She chose to be real because it’s better for both men and women. Greta did a great job pushing EVERYONES buttons to get both men and women thinking about what Barbie represents. We don’t get upset that teddy bears are not a true reflective of real bears and how they appear. Never understood why Barbie was so criticized until I went to university and realized this was the gateway to the perversion that is modern feminism. It was a fun, funny, musical thought provoking movie and at 47 and a mother I can only imagine those that dislike dislike everything including themselves. Lighten up you clearly have nothing going on if it bothered you
Kens don’t like Iona either.
Didn't Caeser say 'I own-a Italia'
I disagree. I’m a crusty old anti-woke dude, but I enjoyed the movie. My take was that in reality, it was plugging humanity, humour, and motherhood over the reverse themes (which were made to look very unfriendly and unattractive). All the preachy ideological characters were completely unrelatable (which, after all is the case in real life.) I have admired Margot Robbie since her brilliant performance in ‘ITonya’ (in which she was not glamorous or beautiful.) ps. I warmed up to ‘Fuck-Off’ Brit girl by the end of this discussion & started to like her big time (despite our disagreements over Barbie.) If she starts that OnlyFans account, I am signing up! 🤣
You're mad because a silly movie about dolls doesn't pander to men enough
"pandering" = refraining from repeatedly kicking in the face.
Haha, yeah, let's create a film made by MRAs that paints all women as dim-witted bimbos (whilst simultaneously oppressing men) and indulge the most over the top male self-pity and woman-hating and when women inevitably don't like it, let's just act like women-hating MRAs and claim they don't like it because it isn't pandering to them enough. 😂😂😂