Your videos have solidified my obsession. I have yet to even begin. Ive watched all your videos and am hungry for the craft. Unfortunately Im starting at 42 and veritably NO budget. But im determined!
This is why I feel that I'm lucky having found a passion in blacksmithing at 13 years old. I have time to learn even still and I have been at it for 2 years. I have a bunch of things down, but many things I don't. I am a bit afraid almost to try making a gate and other huge things. I still have to teach myself how to do that Practice! I am at the craft show stage now. Thanks for the advice John.
It is way nicer to just forge away, but it is fun to sell stuff once you know it is good enough for the selling price and both are happy with it. No hidden problems in an item should ever be sold. That would just be wrong unless the customer knows about it and does not mind that as part of the sale. Just common sense I guess. It seems to be a headache to me to sell lots of small items for cheap. Like bottle openers. I think it would be best to make fewer items that are fun to make but because of the time that went into the piece it could fetch a better price. But then quality would have to be excellent too.
When I master making an object,I am too bored of making more of them.Unless I need more of them on my farm.Always searching for new challenges excusing me for spending time in my shop.
Sometimes i make an object only to hang it on a beam or wall in my shop as a sort of museumpiece. So i have different kind of staples, meathooks, hayhooks, hings, drawerpulls etc. hanging. Just pure fun!
John, thanks for your time. I'm currently in the "honing my skills" stage. Sold a few things by luck but to date have given away 90% of the things I've made. The joy and encouragement from those people has been priceless. This is the most honest and logical answer I've heard to this question. Thanks again sir!
great insights John, I've been blacksmithing for 3 years (still very much an amateur) and tried to sell some work of mine and got burned several times. I've come to the conclusion that I do not sell my work. It is for my pleasure and barter. I give my work away to family and friends and sometimes swap some of it for related stuff to friends as the opportunity arises.
yes very true i remember the feeling of realizing that i had some money to spend on blacksmithing items out of the stuff i had sold. probably one of the best feelings.
I started blacksmithing at 14 and at 16 is when I started selling. Now as I am 20 I've been capable of finally moving out of my parents place and buy a nice peice of land. Living in an RV while still blacksmith and making money the shop is the first thing to be built on my new land but all in all it reminds me of when I first started forging. being out in the rain in the sun and in the cold.
I have not sold any items yet. Although I have had people try to get me to sell them something, which I felt was a compliment. I don't aspire to making a great many of some particular item. Certainly I would say I am focused on skill building, and am enjoying being in the shop. I especially enjoy the do-it-yourself aspect of blacksmithing where I can make a lot of my own tools.
Very good video with honest words. I have been a 'hobby smith' for 20 years or so, and my shop is outdoors. I originally funded my tools with small bits from my pay check, but after starting a family, the pay check became dedicated money. So later on, selling a few items I forged, and the big kicker, was collecting salvage metals like copper and brass, to cash in and further fund my smithing. Between saving 'scrapping money' and forged products, I was able to buy my first half ton of smithing coal. Thanks for the wise words John!
I've only been forging less than a couple years but I've taken a few commissions from friends and family. When I don't have commissions I make gifts for people or tools for myself.
Glad to hear you began the business end via the Rendezvous! That is where my interest in your craft gained its first spark! I have yet to "begin" but, the fire is lit.
A really good video! The most difficult is the priece, you spend 10hs for make one piece and for that cost $1000 or if you spend 10 seconds cost $1, when the time is not the rule for put the priece is the worst.
Sound words today My friend. Gramps started with the basics and it eventually turned into a full time gig. His shop was quite like yours when he retired. Thanks for the chat bud.
John is right on with the skill development. I made a fire poker the first fire in the forge and now I make nicer ones. Then came time management balancing the forge with my family. Great video, I'm looking forward to future content on this.
Great advice, thanks for sharing. Getting as many pieces into the hands of people who can give critical feedback also helps. I try to test new designs with anyone who stands still for 30 seconds to get feedback on what is working and what isnt. It really helps having an objective set of critiques. Although I see people of many different backgrounds the things that dont work seem to be almost universal.
I have been a full time smith for over 40 years and I am still learning blacksmithing.. so duhhh!!! yes.... I have made a comfortable living "learning" blacksmithing. Francis Whitaker quote "a life so short a craft so long"
We are always learning. Even in his later years Francis would comment on something he was doing that he had learned recently and who he had learned it from.
Selling things is a test of your skill, if people want it you are good at it. Making things for yourself you are only satisfying yourself and they maybe good or bad. But paying customers who come back you know they are good.
I guess, but if you're really wanting to learn the craft of blacksmithing then there are going to be those times when there is no fire, but yet you are learning the craft, and/or things related to the craft of blacksmithing.
Thanks John. It's great to hear someone with experience that has a positive outlook on selling. most i have seen are always of the mind that you should never sell unless you have so many years of experience or have made so many thousand of said item.
my sentiments exactly. this is a very expensive addiction. if one "can't" sell the products of ones work before they become buried in it then it completely defeats the purpose.
One day I would like to sell my work. First I'll have to stop giving it all away for free. I do make allot of special tools for my real job. Odd shaped wrenches, picks, easy outs, and special plyers ( small tongs really). And it's really an enjoyment to create something useful and very often better quality then you can buy off the shelf.
The answer to the main question of if i should sell my work is not rite now i am not skilled enough and am still learning from trial and error so when i make a piece thats worth selling i give it as a gift
I’m in the final throes of making five ridiculously complex knives for a friend who designed them. I’m talking many, many hours of work, experimenting, and learning. I’m NOT a knife maker. I’m giving him the knives for free for two reasons: 1. he’s my friend and it has a value to him that these knives were made by me and not purchased 2. I’m not a knife maker and don’t feel it is right to sell my work when I don’t feel I’ve gotten good enough. I do plan on selling some of the ornamental stuff I’ve been making....just no time to do that with these knives having a deadline.
Well, honestly, friends should support you with your work. You're burning money in that forge and your time so expecting something for free is a jerk move, I always thought.
Derfoklishe he offered to pay....but I’m not an experienced knife maker and don’t believe my product will be of the quality produced by people who do it for a living. I’m doing it because it was an opportunity to take a big leap doing something that is new to me and has a time line attached. Risk is a great teacher and she has taught me much these past two months. Also, I like helping out a friend...these are meant as gifts for people in his wedding. So yeah, I’m spending hours upon hours hand sanding to make them look as professional as possible....and I occasionally curse my buddy for what he’s done to me when something goes wrong...but I’ve gotten more than I’m giving.
I would like to hear your opinion on if it is worth it Tax-Wise to report any of that expensive equipment despite making income (not true profit) after having poured so much money into the “business.” My feeling is that most blacksmiths, do not even try since their anvil, hammer, and forge were purchased way before they even began selling.
I have given away everything I’ve made and didn’t want to keep for myself. My fear is that if I HAVE to make 20 thing-ma-jigs, it won’t be as fun as if I make them because I want to. I’m fortunate to have the choice I guess.
I know this might not be the time to ask this but can you tell me what n where can I get those markers you use that leaves a white line on the metal, what are the called?
They are a welders silver pencil. If you can't find one locally I have them for sale on my etsy shop. www.etsy.com/your/shops/BlackBearForge/tools/listings/615553969
Unless you start out really "well healed" you have to sell something. I think blacksmithing has to be sustainable or it is just too expensive a hobby just to be giving things away.
Your videos have solidified my obsession. I have yet to even begin. Ive watched all your videos and am hungry for the craft.
Unfortunately Im starting at 42 and veritably NO budget. But im determined!
This is why I feel that I'm lucky having found a passion in blacksmithing at 13 years old. I have time to learn even still and I have been at it for 2 years. I have a bunch of things down, but many things I don't. I am a bit afraid almost to try making a gate and other huge things. I still have to teach myself how to do that Practice! I am at the craft show stage now. Thanks for the advice John.
It is way nicer to just forge away, but it is fun to sell stuff once you know it is good enough for the selling price and both are happy with it. No hidden problems in an item should ever be sold. That would just be wrong unless the customer knows about it and does not mind that as part of the sale. Just common sense I guess. It seems to be a headache to me to sell lots of small items for cheap. Like bottle openers. I think it would be best to make fewer items that are fun to make but because of the time that went into the piece it could fetch a better price. But then quality would have to be excellent too.
I am a beginner black smith my first forgo was a bottom of a 55 gallon drum and a fishing pipe and a hair dryer for a blower
When I master making an object,I am too bored of making more of them.Unless I need more of them on my farm.Always searching for new challenges excusing me for spending time in my shop.
That is a good way to keep trying new and different things in the shop. Enjoy
Sometimes i make an object only to hang it on a beam or wall in my shop as a sort of museumpiece. So i have different kind of staples, meathooks, hayhooks, hings, drawerpulls etc. hanging. Just pure fun!
John, thanks for your time. I'm currently in the "honing my skills" stage. Sold a few things by luck but to date have given away 90% of the things I've made. The joy and encouragement from those people has been priceless. This is the most honest and logical answer I've heard to this question. Thanks again sir!
great insights John, I've been blacksmithing for 3 years (still very much an amateur) and tried to sell some work of mine and got burned several times.
I've come to the conclusion that I do not sell my work. It is for my pleasure and barter. I give my work away to family and friends and sometimes swap some of it for related stuff to friends as the opportunity arises.
Glad to help
yes very true i remember the feeling of realizing that i had some money to spend on blacksmithing items out of the stuff i had sold. probably one of the best feelings.
Its a nice ego boost as well when people want to own your work.
I started blacksmithing at 14 and at 16 is when I started selling. Now as I am 20 I've been capable of finally moving out of my parents place and buy a nice peice of land. Living in an RV while still blacksmith and making money the shop is the first thing to be built on my new land but all in all it reminds me of when I first started forging. being out in the rain in the sun and in the cold.
I have not sold any items yet. Although I have had people try to get me to sell them something, which I felt was a compliment. I don't aspire to making a great many of some particular item. Certainly I would say I am focused on skill building, and am enjoying being in the shop. I especially enjoy the do-it-yourself aspect of blacksmithing where I can make a lot of my own tools.
Got right the first time John, its definitely an addiction!
Very good video with honest words. I have been a 'hobby smith' for 20 years or so, and my shop is outdoors. I originally funded my tools with small bits from my pay check, but after starting a family, the pay check became dedicated money. So later on, selling a few items I forged, and the big kicker, was collecting salvage metals like copper and brass, to cash in and further fund my smithing. Between saving 'scrapping money' and forged products, I was able to buy my first half ton of smithing coal. Thanks for the wise words John!
I've only been forging less than a couple years but I've taken a few commissions from friends and family. When I don't have commissions I make gifts for people or tools for myself.
Thanks! I have my first show in 6 1/2 weeks. Working like crazy to get my items built up.
Fenrir Forge I have been doing the same thing and will be until October! Lol. Good luck to you.
Well, so long as you are enjoying it, the danger is with any hobby is that if it becomes a career it can take all the fun out of it .
Very true
Very good Information !
Thank You !
Keep Hammering !
Glad to hear you began the business end via the Rendezvous! That is where my interest in your craft gained its first spark! I have yet to "begin" but, the fire is lit.
A really good video! The most difficult is the priece, you spend 10hs for make one piece and for that cost $1000 or if you spend 10 seconds cost $1, when the time is not the rule for put the priece is the worst.
Pricing can be difficult, especially for those jut starting to sell their work.
Good advice John. Thanks again.
Sound words today My friend. Gramps started with the basics and it eventually turned into a full time gig. His shop was quite like yours when he retired. Thanks for the chat bud.
John is right on with the skill development. I made a fire poker the first fire in the forge and now I make nicer ones. Then came time management balancing the forge with my family. Great video, I'm looking forward to future content on this.
Great advice John. Thanks, looking forward to more about this topic.
Yep, makes perfect sense. Good advice, and works for any creative endeavour. I told my photography students pretty much the same thing.
Hay Hay, the first and only item I have ever sold are Nails. I have found that I couldn’t sell a drowning man a life preserver.
Obviously you are not business minded, why sell the life preserver? Pick his pockets after he drowned.
It's not over until you quit. One of the first rules of salesmanship. Don't quit until you succeed. Gotta be something you can make that sells.
Tony Papantoniou Tony, your right, I should give the preserver away, marry his grateful daughter and own his entire farm.
Great advice, thanks for sharing. Getting as many pieces into the hands of people who can give critical feedback also helps. I try to test new designs with anyone who stands still for 30 seconds to get feedback on what is working and what isnt. It really helps having an objective set of critiques. Although I see people of many different backgrounds the things that dont work seem to be almost universal.
very true
I have been a full time smith for over 40 years and I am still learning blacksmithing.. so duhhh!!! yes.... I have made a comfortable living "learning" blacksmithing. Francis Whitaker quote "a life so short a craft so long"
We are always learning. Even in his later years Francis would comment on something he was doing that he had learned recently and who he had learned it from.
Excellent advice, thanks John!
I recently bought a house with my wife. And she said I can put a shop in my side of the garage, so we will see how things progress.
I can recommend a good divorce lawyer
Pretty good advice John thx .... Paul
Great advice thanks John.
Selling things is a test of your skill, if people want it you are good at it. Making things for yourself you are only satisfying yourself and they maybe good or bad. But paying customers who come back you know they are good.
very true
This is sound advise, I can't fathom why someone would give this a thumbs down!
No fire or sparks i guess
I guess, but if you're really wanting to learn the craft of blacksmithing then there are going to be those times when there is no fire, but yet you are learning the craft, and/or things related to the craft of blacksmithing.
Thanks John. It's great to hear someone with experience that has a positive outlook on selling. most i have seen are always of the mind that you should never sell unless you have so many years of experience or have made so many thousand of said item.
That might be ideal, but pretty unrealistic
my sentiments exactly. this is a very expensive addiction. if one "can't" sell the products of ones work before they become buried in it then it completely defeats the purpose.
One day I would like to sell my work. First I'll have to stop giving it all away for free. I do make allot of special tools for my real job. Odd shaped wrenches, picks, easy outs, and special plyers ( small tongs really). And it's really an enjoyment to create something useful and very often better quality then you can buy off the shelf.
Thanks for this video John. I hope to see the follow up about pricing.
Please do more on this topic i am trying to restart my shop
I will have some random thoughts on pricing your work ready to upload tonight or tomorrow.
The answer to the main question of if i should sell my work is not rite now i am not skilled enough and am still learning from trial and error so when i make a piece thats worth selling i give it as a gift
I’m in the final throes of making five ridiculously complex knives for a friend who designed them. I’m talking many, many hours of work, experimenting, and learning. I’m NOT a knife maker. I’m giving him the knives for free for two reasons: 1. he’s my friend and it has a value to him that these knives were made by me and not purchased 2. I’m not a knife maker and don’t feel it is right to sell my work when I don’t feel I’ve gotten good enough. I do plan on selling some of the ornamental stuff I’ve been making....just no time to do that with these knives having a deadline.
Well, honestly, friends should support you with your work. You're burning money in that forge and your time so expecting something for free is a jerk move, I always thought.
Derfoklishe he offered to pay....but I’m not an experienced knife maker and don’t believe my product will be of the quality produced by people who do it for a living. I’m doing it because it was an opportunity to take a big leap doing something that is new to me and has a time line attached. Risk is a great teacher and she has taught me much these past two months. Also, I like helping out a friend...these are meant as gifts for people in his wedding. So yeah, I’m spending hours upon hours hand sanding to make them look as professional as possible....and I occasionally curse my buddy for what he’s done to me when something goes wrong...but I’ve gotten more than I’m giving.
I would like to hear your opinion on if it is worth it Tax-Wise to report any of that expensive equipment despite making income (not true profit) after having poured so much money into the “business.” My feeling is that most blacksmiths, do not even try since their anvil, hammer, and forge were purchased way before they even began selling.
I have given away everything I’ve made and didn’t want to keep for myself. My fear is that if I HAVE to make 20 thing-ma-jigs, it won’t be as fun as if I make them because I want to. I’m fortunate to have the choice I guess.
That is a real risk. Even things that I enjoy making are a bit less enjoyable when I have to do a bunch of them.
What’s that big cone shaped thing beside your power hammer?
Thats a cone mandrel. Its used for forging rings
👍👍👍
I know this might not be the time to ask this but can you tell me what n where can I get those markers you use that leaves a white line on the metal, what are the called?
They are a welders silver pencil. If you can't find one locally I have them for sale on my etsy shop. www.etsy.com/your/shops/BlackBearForge/tools/listings/615553969
what is an ads/adds however you spell it? I cannot find it on the internet anywhere.
Adze. it is sort of like a sideways axe. I have a video using a very simple adze here ruclips.net/video/a7-s5l4Lues/видео.html
Unless you start out really "well healed" you have to sell something. I think blacksmithing has to be sustainable or it is just too expensive a hobby just to be giving things away.