How Do IndyCar's 2024 Hybrids Perform Compared to the Current Cars?
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2023
- The NTT IndyCar Series recently completed its first and final major test of its hybrid engine and energy recovery system before the ERS goes into mass production for 2024, and RACER's Marshall Pruett was there to document it.
Our second video delves into what Scott Dixon and Will Power felt on track and how the ERS unit alters the handling and performance of the Chevy- and Honda-powered cars.
#indycar #hybrid #chevy #chevrolet #honda #chipganassiracing #teampenske #penske #sebring #turbo 
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Scott Dixon IS an energy recovery system.
Scott Dixon will now be able to come out of nowhere to win races while actually *running out* of fuel, lol.
Absolutely beautiful, as Will said, this certainly fills the torque hole of the smallish turbo unit. Also interesting is the KERS system used to improve handling and braking, very impressive.
haha. indycar is long gone. nobody cares about it anymore. it wont ever be like CART was
Two of the best for their engine suppliers to draw performance and feedback from. "Thanks", Marshall! 👍
What I heard Will Power say is that the old V8 ChampCar was still the most awesome IndyCar ❤😂
exactly. the champ car that Herta just drove is way more impressive than this garbage. sad days.
@@blakeabernathy4051 And gullible, stupid people fall for it.
@@Veryrealangrybirds Not over here it ain't Mate !
If Slick Willy P ain't complaining then that's a good sign in my book
He can't. Gotta do the marketing spiel and promote the product. At least in front of the camera anyway
Great things will come with this. One of the benefits is that the drivers would be able to restart their own engines after stalling on track.
At the high end of power deployment, that would put the cars nearly on par with power with F1. I can't wait until the ex-F1 guys drive this and see what they think.
Assuming that the supercap banks can last a whole lap and that they can recover more than they deploy (like how the LMDh/GTP in WEC/IMSA deploy at max 50 kW but can recover 200 kW), maybe it won't be as quick as an F1 car around the track but it certainly will be faster.
I hope Indy car limits output so that drivers can drive flat out all the time. F1 drivers have to charge and wait sometimes but I just like indycar because it's more raw racing.
@@AGodwin So are stockcars though ,if that's wants one wants.
Awesome insight and great to hear from a few of the drivers! Amazing Reporting!
The FIA needs to be awarding super-license points for Indycar drivers starting next year. The new cars are going to be pretty much F2 machines going forward.
FF1
I think Indycar is a bit more raw than F2 tho. No power steering, very snappy cars that require lots of brute force to handle. F1 is more precise.
Japanese Super Formula cars are a little bit faster than F2 cars, so they are faster than Indy Cars.
I vote for 150hp boost day one at St. Pete 2024. 🚀
Excited to see 2.4L V6 but really want to see a new modern lighter chassis. After 11yrs time to move on. Hope we see at least a concept drawing or model in next 12 months.
Yes, and I hope that the new concept car can incorporate Aeroscreen in a better way, especially in the back. On the current car the front part is good enough but on the back the Aeroscreen is too wide for the narrow engine cover.
Agree 100% it wouldn't hurt to build a new chassis since there will be added weight with hybridization
@@MK-sw7do the next aeroscreen is going to at least be lighter which is good
So they are going for the 2.4L? As a European semicasual viewer I heard they were sticking with 2.2 but with the hybrid system.
@@SoLDMG They are going to 2.4L
i wonder if a garage 56 entry is in Indy's future. they can figure out a silent pit exit and we know the ACO likes that
Probably have to be a closed cockpit but I’d love to see what they could come up with!
Maybe but that sanctioning body is owned by NASCAR which is why NASCAR got the hype and billing it did. I don't know if they will extend that same courtesy to a rival series.
Meaning 2000's Indycar is forgotten but some of the best racing
Hey MP, thanks for the update. Can you find out how the supercapacitor MGU regen differs from the F1 battery regen system? I hate how slow the F1 regen laps are, especially in qualifying! Plus when the F1 cars cross the start finish, even though there is time left, they cannot set another fast lap due to the regen!
I'm looking for the spiritual successor to the big boy cars like the Reynard/Honda, The Beast, etc. Sounds like they are on track.
I hope that the new concept car can incorporate Aeroscreen in a better way, especially in the back. On the current car the front part is good enough but on the back the Aeroscreen is too wide for the narrow engine cover.
Somebody asks Toto Wolff why F1 is still pushing hybrid cars. The reason is F1 hybrid powertrains achieve a peak thermal efficiency above 50 percent insted of 35% of old formulas. It means the cars with 1.6 liter engine + ERS reaching 1000+ HP with only 110 kg of fuel on full race. So imagine the same in Indy500 with 2-3 refuel only.
So all that fuss for possibly as little as 60 hp day one? And having to scap the new 2.4L and stick with the already over decade-old 2.2L? Seems like a raw deal...
The 2.4 isn’t scrapped. It’s just been sidelined due to costs. The regen motors can make up to 150hp, but as they stated, you will have significantly more instantaneous low end torque, which the current cars lack. Even with a 60hp bump, the torque added has to be massive. Like 200lb/ft instantly.
I love supercapacitor hybrids! They are the best of both worlds. It will possibly take a lot of skill to modulate the throttle application, specially without any TC or power steering, and also dealing with the reverse torque and avoid lockups
Was wondering when Indycar was gonna jump on board since every other series has. Itll be nice more power in the long run and adds another interesting dynamic for the drivers. These cars never seemed quick on road courses hopefully this fills the gap
I wonder if they would be allowed to vector the motor a bit, just to get a bit of positive/negative aid around the limit.
love it!!!
How does this effect push to pass ? Enhance it or eliminate it ?
Mostly the drivers just want lighter cars with more grip so hopefully things trend towards that in the future although man, idk looking at things.
Even F1 is looking at internal combustion engines with synthetic fuels for the long term future now, getting disillusioned with EV now that they're seeing all this weight and size problem. It's not set in stone that EV is the future in motorsport, and it definitely shouldn't be. It's tech for roadcars.
@@TheFantomsLair EV race cars being dead slow is not a technical thing so much, as it is powers that be just for allowing engineers make the most of it. Look up the McMurtry Speirling. Change one thbing about that car : make the battery hot swappable, like a hire scooter's. Just a well designed jack and airgun bolt system. Tell me that car isn't faster than an Indycar.
@@TheFantomsLair It's billionaires, bankers and politicians telling you that fuels are bad, especially the net CO2 emissions. What have billionaires, bankers and poltiicians done for you, lately? Why'd you trust them this time, because their hired white coats are saying "the science is settled", over and over again? Joseph Goebbels warned us for that, look it up. CO2 is plant food, vital for all living things. Greenhouse farmers use it to improve crop yields. Famine is a thing. What have your food prices done the past few years? Imagine half the CO2 in the air, way lower farm yields. Look forward to that? Believe that climate change is all due to CO2, when it's happening on neighboring planets as well?
I don't think they want more grip because more grip would trend to a 2015-17 aerokit. They want less weight and more power.
@@TheFantomsLair
I will be blunt, EV's in a motorsport setting is interesting because alot of the rules for road cars come off and they can do stuff that I would question in a road car. In general EV races tend to be a lighter if only for one reason, less battery. They don't need 100 kWh for a range target, so they don't attempt to go that big. Regen get's interesting. For example, in Formula E's Gen 3 Car.... the rear braking is all motor based, they don't under a rear set of physical brakes (my guess is that the fronts are their for redundancy in case things fail). The machine is also in a constant state of regen at all times, collecting energy from the front motor.
After watching a few races for the 9th season, they might be on to something and to be blunt.... EV's NEED motorsport, they need a laboratory to kick tires on crap. So far, that kind of experimentation has been on the public road which I feel it is asking for trouble. "Unsafe at any speed" kind of trouble.
Well looks Ike the natural 8's were better the motor everyone hated.....except me the 2000's Honda sounded great, my favorite engine sound until they put the muff's on
Sounds like this will bring Indy cars a step closer to being on-par with F1 cars. Should make things interesting. And using the energy harvest/deploy instead of the artificial "push to pass" system will put more emphasis on tactics and less on strategy, which should make for more interesting racing. Especially on road courses.
F1 cars are terrible ugly long over weight garbage cars
I don't think push to pass is going anywhere (edit: it is going away sadyl). Should make things pretty interesting having effectively more power towards the end of the race when drivers run out of gas though!
On par with WEC hypercars maybe in terms of road course speed but F1 has 1000+hp and loads of downforce
@bigcrazycarboy672 KERS will replace push to pass think like 2013 F1 in how it's used
@@Nah5534 IndyCar pole was 7 seconds faster than IMSA GTP around Road America this year. IndyCars are already faster.
1:07 "MODOR" ? Is winter coming??
Spec system ?
Is ERS/deployment meant to replace push-to-pass?
Yes
sadly
@@MK-sw7do why? It's as much or more extra power and will be another thing to show driver ability.
They really need to get more manufacturers involved. This spec series stuff has gone on long enough.
Indycar IS a spec series. Why would they want to copy F1? It would take away the main reason indycar racing is more exciting than F1, drivers and teams competing on execution and skill rather than money spending.
Isn't this the same system the Acura's are using in IMSA? If so, won't the Honda teams have a decided advantage when it's implemented?
It was developed jointly with HPD and Chevy.
Not the same system. All IMSA GTP cars use an MGU made by Bosch and a battery. IndyCar is using an MGU developed by HPD and GM and a supercapacitor instead of a battery. Both GM and HPD will have experience running hybrid powertrains in IMSA, but they are different components.
Along with Porsche and Ferrari of course .
Im happy its improving but screw it back to the v8 naturally aspirated is all i hear lol
I really wish they would just talk to the drivers. Marshall is cool but honestly we're here to listen to the drivers talk about the car not a cut away from a journalist
Ha ha reverse torque motor? Heard that before from the 60s someone had a damn good garage!
Huh? Super Capacitor.... That is interesting, so what is the energy storage? If it is anything like the Lambo Sian, then am I to assume that their isn't an energy storage?
It's a bit like storing static in a t-shirt. Even seen that light up in the dark?
So it's not chemical based like in batteries (most are highly flammable). Supercaps have a low energy capacity compared to most batteries, but super durable and punchy. So think of a few seconds of punch as the total capacity. LIke a bit of water you take on while braking and tossing out the back while accelerating.
@@Cloxxki
The thing with the Sian is that it can't store energy, once at a limit it has to expel it. If this works in the same way then the performance is only really under load and braking... They can't store the energy for when on a straight, nor would they have much control in when the energy deployed.... aside from torque fill till their empty on the juice.
flywheel. kind of like the toyota TS030 system
how much weight does it add to the car???
Less than 100lbs
Roughly 60lbs last I heard.
@@HK_Productions47 thats not as bad as I thought it would be, thank you!
The Question it goes same speed as the actual car? Example Palou 243mph at Indianapolis!! Will surpassed it or gonna be restricted to less speed? Like F1 that only hits 208mph?
Just a guess but i don't think it will affect the top speed much if at all, it sounds like it will just help with acceleration out of corners a bit.
@phnxen3rg666 but at the end, how Mph would gain with those additional 150hp?
If the average speed at Indianapolis is 234 mph, then with 150hp extra, it is supposed to reach higher speed cause this type of drivers they want reached higher speeds than more torque for acceleration like F1 they sacrifice higher speeds to get more accelaration, I preferred higher speeds than torque for accelaration.
@@Angelbonilla1982 I think it has a theoretical max 150 hp boost, but it can only store enough energy to use that boost over a short period of time. It wont be a sustained extra 150 hp but just a hp increase for a few seconds maybe, and then the capacitor will be drained. And there won't be much of an opportunity to recharge the capacitor over a superspeedway, so it won't really help much for the top speed at IMS.
f1 cars aren't limited to 208mph. the Haas did 222mph at Baku this year. additionally, the hybrid system might not be used during qualifying for indy or on ovals but it appears to be able to be used during oval races.
How much extra weight does it add? The massive increase in size (and weight) pretty much killed F1 racing
While I won’t disagree with your points, F1 has never had great racing. It’s always been 1-2 vastly dominant teams year in and year out.
@@Jeffcatbuckeye You blokes must be very Young I guess?
@@mauricelevy9027 nope not young at all. Racing was even worse in the 60s and 70s where 2nd place usually finished 1-2 laps down
What about chassis?
Nowt wrong with Dallara chassis It's what You do with it as well though.
Will Power is a mix of David Duchovny and John Oliver.
Quick with it though ,That's the F3 background from His days in UK I suppose ,plus being an Aussie ?
👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌
Nothing wrong with more power
make it Hybrid but the ice should be atmo
So, from a racers point of view, the V8 was better.
Well, of course, I'm sure Willy P would like to have a 2000HP v12 that's made out of some sort of exotic materials that weighs 50 lbs.
from a logical point of view hybrid is always better
nothing beats the power and sound of a V8 like back in the days @@_Mandolorian
Looking at the racing now, it isn’t better. Power simply stated that the old V8s had more torque than the current 2.2L turbos, so adding the regen motors restores that torque deficiency.
Not really. The new V6 hybrid probably makes more power than old V8.
The best engines, and cars that Indycar had was when it was CART and Champcar. Need to get at least another chassis manufacturer like Swift.
Will: "ya. ya. ya. ya ya ya. ya. ya."
It's as if he can't say what he really thinks.
@@ceeam I'm just pointing out that he was saying "ya" after every word while the question was being asked.
My question is why.
So the cars are now heavier, more complex, more expensive, barely faster, and still don't sound great. Please bring back the V8s.
The current car is already faster than the V8…and has been…even with more weight and less downforce. These electric motors…ho aside, will add massive low end torque to the current platform, more than the V8s had.
@@Jeffcatbuckeyestill not enough to compete with F1 who runs their cars at 1000BHP+
@@LimitPro1 I don’t care if they have 400hp. The racing is better in indycar. Adding more power isn’t going to improve the product. It’s just the compromise that you make when you go faster. I like racing….not publicity stunts.
Let them run with a full race load of fuel as well ,like F1,
Indycars with ERS?
This sport really is now starting to become more like spec F1. They might end up having to do another body redesign if these cars continue to get faster.
@2:27 He's referring to the ChampCars raced until 2007 with the 950-horsepower Cosworth XFE 2.65-liter turbocharged V8. So sad these cars are "miles behind" that.
I don't think that's accurate. Pretty sure he was referring to the IR 05 era Honda V8's, which were miles behind the Cosworth V8 champ car package. Unfortunately we will never see that era levels of performance again.
@@simrigpc27b12 yea, in the name of fuel consumption and safety, and trying to do it with tech instead of brute force, but they do reach high speeds still, I will be sad if they go all electric though nothing like the noise and feel of alcohol motors rumbling
@amjan I believe CART/CHAMPCARS were in the 900+ hp and 16,000 rpms zone up to 2002. I think after that, they lowered the horsepower down to 700 to 750 for reliability reasons.
They aren’t “miles behind that”. Hell with this new setup, they will be pushing 950hp in quali trim at Indy, with more torque than the old cars. Mind you, todays cars, even without motors, are setting track records.
@@secretsquirrel6257Yes, and in 2007 they raced the Panoz DP01 which apparently had 950bhp and that's what Power must've referred to.
Something F1/IndyCar fans and drivers can agree on...
F1 needs V10's back
IndyCar needs V8 CART/ChampCars Back 👍
FIA made up an excuse for that, which is the cost and reliability. Let's talk a bit of F1 here. The V6 hybrid makes 950hp, around the same as the old V10 while weighing around only 50-60kg more WHILE being able to last 7-8 races vs 3-4 races for the V10. I'd say it's a upgrade for reliability and they probably get to spend less money. But of course in term of sound V10 is obviously superior.
Ah right I forgot to add, they also have far superior fuel consumption. Old F1 had refueling, new F1 don't. Which mean they have to last the entire race without refueling.
It must be time for a new chassis, the DW12 is looking pretty dated.
a racing series with too much crashes, and they make the cars even faster
We wanted to see more displacement, not heavier engines.
I think you just contradicted yourself.
more displacement means heavier engines too. . .
@@ciello___8307 not always, but it’s usually the case.
Should add 150~200 hp from the hybrid and reduce the ICE power to 550~600hp max. May be easier to attract more manufacturers. Then bring a new aero with more downforce for the road courses.
Don’t like it, don’t care……and I own a hybrid that I like.
Because we care that you don't?
Thanks for the update, regardless!
Doubt they'll ask you. Don't like it? GTFO then
I dont really beleive it. If you have ever seen Will Power, you know his excitement spills out when he talks. If this engine was as good as he says, he would be estatic. Ask him how the Champ car engines felt and youll see his face light up. I was hoping for some monster engines for 2024. These dont sound so exciting.
I mean the current F1 hybrid engines are most powerful F1 engines ever made. This is looking like to be a similar situation assuming we can unleash the full 150 hp.
@456MrPeople Yes but IndyCar puts crazy limits on their engine to make them last. The current can do around 900hp but only outputs like 600hp. How conservative will they be with these hybrid engines?
I don’t see any reason for them to turn down the engine further since the electric motor takes some load off the engine. Rather I can see them giving back the 60 hp used for push to pass now that the electric motor is used for that instead of the engine.
There goes the neighborhood I'm done wit IndyCar
Make the cars more expensive... maybe we can have a 20 car field at IMS... good idea...smh...
Just a lot more work for the crew, with an increase in the amount of unreliability, all to make the PR people feel good,with nothing of any value to the fans.
more power though
Interesting !
Personnaly, I think Indycar need to be around 2s or 3s quicker on road and street course than now. There is no much difference between and Indycar and a Formula 2 car actually. A Japan Superformula car is quicker than an Indycar. They must do something.
Absolutely that's what always bothered me about this series is how slow they are. They really do need to overhaul a complete package
They need to be 5-10sec faster! They need to be no more than 6sec slower than F1 and clearly faster than anything else.
@@amjan Why exactly? The racing in F1 sucks, Super Formula is decent bur not great. Why fast for the sake of speed if the racing would suck?
@@CRIV2012 This has been a great year for f1, yea the red bull car is dominant but the fights behind it have super good. Dutch GP was solid also
@@CRIV2012 F1 fans live only for the digits. Vettel is like the third best driver who ever lived for them. And Bottas is fourth best of the current drivers in the whole world.
Welcome to the 1990s?
Tech is fine and dandy, but boy these cars are fugly!
I agree, the early 90s cars looked great, like the one Mansell was driving.
Stop this silly bulls and bring back the v8. Is what I heard
The are the worst looking cars since the IRL.
in another words the new car just sucks
Gimmicks are always used when the product sucks.
What would these guys say if they had the chance to drive f1? That they were driving a spaceship? Grosjean drove F1, but he doesn't count. He's never won in F1, never in Indy, and never will.
How do they perform? It doesn't matter. It's a spec series! What a phenomenal waste! (Why not spend the money offering variety to the series -- open rules on aero kits, etc.?)
We want faster, more spectacular cars, and we want IndyCars to smash F2 and be closer in speed to F1. We also want IndyCar to remain a true DRIVERS championship and not an engineering race.
Spec series = EPIC WIN.
Sit down Bill. You don't know what you're talking about
@@CRIV2012, I'm curious. What have I said that's not correct? Not a spec series? The series doesn't need variety? It's won based on driver skill, yes, but primarily on shock absorber programs. That's interesting? Most fans don't even know.
power said nothing but ya ya ya ya!!! How much faster damm it!
Yeah!! Not restricted like F1 just shy 208mph!!
Are all of the teams testing this ? Or o my Penske ??
Feels like that INDY is going the F1 way.. Smaller engines and hybrid.
So no more high power sounds from the engine and stupid quite like those ugly slow F1 cars?? God, I hope not because it would be sad watching a race car sound ridiculously low like a regular street car
What are you babbling about? It's still a turbo V6.
Put down the phone, pick up a Qtip...
The engines are unchanged and sound the same.