ADDITIONS/ERRATA: -Foretell Harm looks like a great way to trigger enemy weaknesses to certain damage types twice -I'm actually not 100% unsure that the Multiple Attack Penalty doesn't apply to The Dead Walk, since it refers to "Strikes"... But I think it doesn't, because Spiritual Weapon also uses Strikes but DOES refer to the MAP: 2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=306 . Also, it would scale in an unintended way if MAP applies. -It's been brought up, and I think I agree: you need to be Cursebound 2 BEFORE you start casting The Dead Walk to summon an extra spirit. This would be consistent with how your curse works now (it advances when "you finish casting a revelation spell"). I first thought this was strange because it would scale strangely, but then I remembered that after you tap into your curse you probably can't lower your Cursebound condition to below 1 for the rest of the day (assuming it works the same as it does now). So it actually makes sense, if that is true. -Someone raised that the Remaster now keys the size of your Focus Point Pool to the number of focus spells you have, so where does this leave the Oracle? This question came up for the Psychic, and the consensus was that its pool of 2 Focus Points survives the Remaster: www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1bxjr9w/psychic_focus_interaction_with_new_focus_spells/ Now, the Oracle will be revised and republished, but I am expecting it will start with 2 Focus Points, but we just don't know. (I'll say this though: it will be sad if it goes by the Remaster rule and starts with only 1 focus spell and doesn't have much access to more focus spells.)
I think the oracle will get 2 focus spells at level 1 (one from their oracle mystery and one from their chosen domain), so I think they will still get 2 focus points at level 1.
Being relatively OP in exchange for several/severe debuffs is literally all I ever wanted from the Oracle. My experience with the class so far is cool flavor, mostly negligible debuffs for slightly above average class abilities
I'm huge on these changes. Our Oracle player recently reclassed into Sorcerer, Oracle dedication after struggling with Flames Oracle for 7 full levels. It was just too hard for her to keep up on power level - something that is very odd for Pathfinder where this really doesn't happen much. Letting the Oracle have some genuine power at the cost of blowing out on Cursebound for the day is a welcome and I think necessary change. All of this looks rad.
Ronald the Rules Lawyer is dry and very informative, and Ronnie the Dungeon Daddy is moist and super fun to listen to once in a while. But he only managed to pull it off during the deleted stream. So I guess sober = good dryness; and drunk = good moistness?
The main criticism I've seen from current Oracle players is that they don't like having to spend feats on the flavorful curse-based abilities they used to get for free. We'll have to see what the final class looks like, but I suspect this is going to be one of the more difficult classes to remaster existing characters with.
You get a cursebound feat at level 1 tied to your Divine Mystery as well. Now you can choose to use your focus spell related to your mystery(assuming that’s still a thing) with no downside, or choose to increase your cursebound condition with your feat. That’s just a straight buff.
@@triforceadm7345 That's not a feat but a specific ability that is different from the previous curses (I suspect Lore Oracle gets this one). If you want something like Flames Oracle curse, you have to invest in the feat for it.
This is great. The original Oracle wasn't unplayable, or anything, but they were notably inferior to other spontaneous caster classes. This is a much needed buff that makes the class easier to use and adds to the flavor. I absolutely love this. Oracle is such a conceptually awesome class. Making them stronger and more intuitive is exactly what the doctor ordered.
This sneak peak looks far more promising, and way more informative, than the Swashbuckler's preview. Much better. It seems like they took the class in a direction that most Oracle players from PF1e wanted. I never liked PF1e style due to how irrelevant some curses were (which were also the "meta" picks). I think Paizo managed to capture both the flavor and the versatility. This might be the best course of action after all. Win, win.
I'm currently running a homebrew campaign and one of my players is a tempest oracle. The character is delightful in every scene, but the player has told me about all the hoops he has to go through to get access to more air and water spells (mostly on the primal spellcasting list, not divine). I'm so excited to see the changes they make so that hopefully he can have a better mechanical experience with his character
Thank God they're adding more spells to the mysteries. Why would anyone play a flame Oracle when there're only six divine spells that deal fire damage, and none of them are burning hands, scorching ray, or fireball
I have seen two oracles in two short games that I GMed and just looking at these changes, it looks pretty good on paper and my players liked the direction as well. We all looking forward to see how this all will look in PC2.
I've played 4 oracles (battle, cosmos, life, and ancestors) and I've always enjoyed myself. The class is complex and requires being willing to accept negatives(something many players simply don't like at all). I think that's what leads to so many bad play experiences. The concept of the class is really fun and I think that's what draws players in, but if you don't actually enjoy the idea of taking guaranteed negatives for potential gains you are likely ensuring yourself a bad time. This class was for the people that want to walk the line between danger and power, and that's just not for everyone. And IMO, that's okay. I mean, the fighter class will never be for me. Just being the best at hitting with a weapon over and over had never been my play style, and that's okay. I just hope the risk/reward of the oracle makes it through.
So true that the premise is just not for some people. That kind of tradeoff is very much my jam, but I've played enough of a variety of games with people to see that even an inconsequential negative is unpalatable to some people, even if they get something out of it.
Ooo, these all seem like really fun and thematic changes! And it seems like they are teasing a lot more options, looks like Oracle might be a lot more fun and interesting to build soon!
I like the idea of using feats to customize the benefits you get from your oracle curse, and if every feat is as cool as the Dead Walk I think it will be a great remaster for the oracle.
Did you miss the bit where it said "when you use" in "The Dead Walk"? You have to already be at the level of cursebound before using to get the commensurate benefit.
That was sort of my question. That's how I read it at first, but then the scaling would be strange if that were the case... BUT now I realize that it is probably assumed, if it works like it does now, that you will be Cursebound 1 going into most encounters in a day. I'll "errata" this in a pinned comment (thanks)
Did not Remaster blanked remove all other rules for focus points and just basing it on number of focus spells you have, so i assume it will be the same for Oracle
Here is to hoping. Im one of the few who are skeptical of the new method of advancing curses but lets see when it comes out. Im curious about where they will fit the benefits of the curses. Will they be feats now or automatically gained at certain levels? I am excited about the expanded spells and domains.
Fortell Harm is interesting. It doesn't say you have to choose only one target. Doing 2x spell level damage to all targets of an AoE spell is pretty great for a level 1 feat.
My main concern is how prevalent curse specific feats are going to be. They took all the flavorful mystery unique benefits away from curses, leaving them with only intrinsic drawbacks. If you can't get those benefits back in the form of feats like The Dead Walk, you'll feel like "a generic oracle with unique downsides" rather than a fully unique subclass. The Dead Walk is a level 10 feat, which is worrying to me. If these subclass specific feats aren't available as early as the first few levels, the subclasses are going to pretty much just blur together for most of a characters career. "Which subclass you should take" would become a question of which one impacts your playstyle the least, because it's all downside. Which means all oracles would feel nearly identical until high levels when divine access and the more unique feats come into play. If on the other hand, we get these sorts of feats early on, and consistently throughout our career, then it becomes a feat tax to get to have a subclass, which is probably a better outcome, but it's still pretty bad.
Maybe they could even do something like with the kineticist where you get to pick a couple cursebound feats extra throughout the levels, who knows. I really liked that flexibility for my Air/Water Kineticist
I think you've missed two important things. 1) choosing your mystery doesn't just affect what kind of curse you have, but it also affects what focus spells you have and what feats you can pick, and 2) the article mentions that a lot of the older curse effects have been turned to cursebound feats, like Meddling Futures, which is just the old Ancestors curse. And while we don't know what level these feats are, I'm confident they are earlier than level 10.
I am actually really excited about this because it seems like it's making the Oracle more.Oracle theme if that makes sense. There was so little to gain in their spellwest that every other oracle didn't Get an each mystery just kind of felt disjointed from the class
Sounds like they might be removing the flavor of the oracle mysteries which i'm not a huge fan of. I like when the sub-classes provide enough flavor to really feel different like the kineticist. You always know what kind of kineticist you are partying with because of what they are able to do.
By the looks of it, based on the "subclass exclusive" cursebound ability feats, it seems they aren't doing that. I suspect they'll take generic actions that could apply to any oracle and let every oracle take them, while restricting most of them based on flavor.
Where do you get the impression they are removing the flavor of the mysteries? They didn't mention how the mystery entries will look like, but I highly doubt they are getting rid of the mystery benefits and related skill. The curse drawbacks are also stated to be specific to the chosen mystery and there are unique cursebound feats for the mysteries.
I'm currently writing a homebrew creation guide. This is an excerpt from that guide which I think applies here. ."..One of the biggest mistakes I see homebrewers make is believing that they have balanced something because they have added a drawback. This is wrong. Akuma is no less broken with 800 HP than he is with 1000 HP. If you get that reference, you are awesome, and if you don’t, just know that drawbacks are just excuses. Don’t build drawbacks into your homebrew so that you can add power. Build a good homebrew and it will naturally have drawbacks..." The Oracle is a perfect example of how this sort of thing can create something bad. The flavor of the oracle is great. i love it, and it makes for great characters. But the mechanics that are built into the class are bad, precisely because they created drawbacks to add power instead of creating a class that naturally has drawbacks. The best drawbacks (for balance) are opportunity costs, but what paizo did here was basically playing numbers. Now, Paizo is a professional company with professional game designers and they CARE about the game and the oracle, so the Oracle is not unbalanced but it suffers from the "feels bad" effect specifically because it makes the same mistake that homebrewers make.
Looking at this cursed condition, i'm hoping addiction get's a little bit more love. I kinda want to make an army chef whom brews some mean coffee, and has the good cigarettes
for the Dead Walk, does it check your cursebound level when you USE the feat, so you are locked at , 0 if you use it at 0, then you go to Cursebound 1?
At 5:27 you declare that the extra damage from Foretell Harm is UNTYPED. While you say that your curser highlight touches the very next sentence which says that it is type-matched to the spell that you used to enable the feat, e.g. fire damage causes them to catch on fire. Also, in "The Dead Walk" it explicitly gives "heightened-like" effects for Cursebound 2 and 3, but nothing beyond. Does this imply that 3 is the highest curse binding?
I think Ronald didn't mean the damage type but rather the bonus type, it is not status bonus, circumstance bonus nor an item bonus and can theoretically stack with any bonus, the other feats and features that work similar to this give typed bonuses that can't stack with same type damage bonuses.
The feeling I am getting out of Oracle is that you will be retraining ALL the time. Since vibe I am getting from those 2 feats is that you will want to eventually replace your low level Cursebound actions with higher tier ones.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Not exactly what I meant. I imagine not all feats are Cursebound. So as you gain levels you may be incentivised to swap Low Level Cursebound feats for Low Level feats without it. Keeping a small selection of Cursebound feats and supplementing them with more.. consistent ones.
@@TheNeiven Gotcha. I do wonder if the Level 1 feat you get for free from your Mystery is retrainable. Currently you can't retrain free Level 1 feats from a subclass due to the language "When retraining, you generally can't make choices you couldn't make when you selected the original option." We'll have to see about your concern for cursebound feats generally, meanwhile, and whether higher-level ones clearly outclass/are more generally applicable than lower ones.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG 99% sure we wont be able to retrain the free feat from Mystery, at least not RAW. But I think it is fair to say that loading yourself up with purely Cursebound feats will run a high chance of character ending up with a lot of their cards unplayed because Curse would rack up too high. Which lands us in an interesting state - not often found in other classes that often - Where level 18 (numbers randomly chosen for the point) "build' will end up having much different base of low level feats than level 10 build. Uncharted waters ahead. Could be interesting, could be bad! Only trial by fire will show. The Dead Walk gives me hopes as in the past a lot of caster feats felt like they lacked some in world firework to them. Or fell under the umbrella term of Solution in search of a problem.
"Say you just cast magic missile" But isn't the Oracle a divine caster and magic missle is an arcane and occult spell? I guess they could get arcane or occult spellcasting from an archetype
With more domains for each mystery, divine access should allow quite a few of them to pick Nethys, Gravelady's Guard, or Lorthact, all of whom have Magic Missle/Force Barrage on their spell list.
"... the oracle's curse now just strictly debuffs the player. We've done it - no, no, no, come back..." Tier list creators: *"LEAVE THEM ALONE, THEY'RE ALREADY DEAD"* 😭 Oracle enjoyers: "It's okay, we can take it." 🗿
Never really liked Oracle, nothing about it ever felt worth taking on and juggling penalties. Especially with Cleric right next door with only positives and a pseudo-martial option, so I'm hopeful the new changes will make Oracle look more appealing to me. On a slight side tangent though; while I never really held out hope for it, I thought for a while now Oracle could have been a Divine/Occult caster, chosen at chargen. The flavour of divination and curses honestly fits Occult better than Divine for me.
kinda disappointed bc this feels like it'll take much of the flavor and uniqueness out of choosing a mystery. but maybe restricting certain feats based on which mystery you chose will help with that.
Overly complicated? Ive got two braincells and Oracles is just more reading than some other classes. It might be hard to optimize for but not all classes need to be built for min maxing
But it is guaranteed damage of a specific amount without save, so it is quite good. Especially if you cast a spell on an enemy that has a weakness to a certain type of damage.
Not loving this. Seems to strip out all the cool parts of oracle to appease people who didn't like the class before. But at the cost of ruining it for all the people that *did* like the class before.
Except at the end of the spell it says "The warriors disappear at the start of your next turn." It is confusing, yes, but I think RAI is that they stick around long enough for your friends to benefit from them.
Yeah Remaster Oracle is great if you didn't like Oracle. It's dogshit if you liked Oracle. Since more info has come out it's been really bad, imo; a lot of flavor and unique passives lost in favor of 4 slot casting and feats that are not entirely unique and only sometimes replicate what you want. Divine Access got screwed, Battle Oracle got screwed, the whole thing is ass. Massive, relatively rare Paizo L
they are already fixing the biggest flaw, cursbound being on focus spells. did you know that archtype oracles didn't have the complete and total loss of all of their cursebound focus spells if they overloaded but main class oracles did? it is super dumb, if the party is getting some terrible roles and your oracle has to use more than 1 focus point per combat they can completely lose all access to focus spells for the rest of the adventure. This frees up their focus spells and even removes the penalties for using them (life link gonna go even harder) and even the as shown feats are fantastic looking, up to 16d6 without spending a spell slot at level 10 is very good and provides allies with flanking (and maybe yourself since you can do that in the thick of combat without fear of AoO and strike afterwards with no MAP)
ADDITIONS/ERRATA:
-Foretell Harm looks like a great way to trigger enemy weaknesses to certain damage types twice
-I'm actually not 100% unsure that the Multiple Attack Penalty doesn't apply to The Dead Walk, since it refers to "Strikes"... But I think it doesn't, because Spiritual Weapon also uses Strikes but DOES refer to the MAP: 2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=306 . Also, it would scale in an unintended way if MAP applies.
-It's been brought up, and I think I agree: you need to be Cursebound 2 BEFORE you start casting The Dead Walk to summon an extra spirit. This would be consistent with how your curse works now (it advances when "you finish casting a revelation spell"). I first thought this was strange because it would scale strangely, but then I remembered that after you tap into your curse you probably can't lower your Cursebound condition to below 1 for the rest of the day (assuming it works the same as it does now). So it actually makes sense, if that is true.
-Someone raised that the Remaster now keys the size of your Focus Point Pool to the number of focus spells you have, so where does this leave the Oracle? This question came up for the Psychic, and the consensus was that its pool of 2 Focus Points survives the Remaster: www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1bxjr9w/psychic_focus_interaction_with_new_focus_spells/ Now, the Oracle will be revised and republished, but I am expecting it will start with 2 Focus Points, but we just don't know. (I'll say this though: it will be sad if it goes by the Remaster rule and starts with only 1 focus spell and doesn't have much access to more focus spells.)
I think the oracle will get 2 focus spells at level 1 (one from their oracle mystery and one from their chosen domain), so I think they will still get 2 focus points at level 1.
If I have to eat a tasty bowl of debuffs to literally cheat reality, all I can say is hand me my biggest spoon 👀
Being relatively OP in exchange for several/severe debuffs is literally all I ever wanted from the Oracle.
My experience with the class so far is cool flavor, mostly negligible debuffs for slightly above average class abilities
I'm huge on these changes. Our Oracle player recently reclassed into Sorcerer, Oracle dedication after struggling with Flames Oracle for 7 full levels. It was just too hard for her to keep up on power level - something that is very odd for Pathfinder where this really doesn't happen much. Letting the Oracle have some genuine power at the cost of blowing out on Cursebound for the day is a welcome and I think necessary change. All of this looks rad.
I've got my glass of water, and I'm fully moisturized and ready for the driest content you got to give LET'S GOOOO
Ronald the Rules Lawyer is dry and very informative, and Ronnie the Dungeon Daddy is moist and super fun to listen to once in a while. But he only managed to pull it off during the deleted stream. So I guess sober = good dryness; and drunk = good moistness?
This is the big one I’ve been waiting for. Thank you Ronald!!
The main criticism I've seen from current Oracle players is that they don't like having to spend feats on the flavorful curse-based abilities they used to get for free. We'll have to see what the final class looks like, but I suspect this is going to be one of the more difficult classes to remaster existing characters with.
You get a cursebound feat at level 1 tied to your Divine Mystery as well. Now you can choose to use your focus spell related to your mystery(assuming that’s still a thing) with no downside, or choose to increase your cursebound condition with your feat. That’s just a straight buff.
3:58 for reference
@@triforceadm7345 That's not a feat but a specific ability that is different from the previous curses (I suspect Lore Oracle gets this one). If you want something like Flames Oracle curse, you have to invest in the feat for it.
@@triforceadm7345 · Appreciate the TimeStamp extremely.
Thnx.
I'm one of those people. The idea makes me leery, but I'm very willing to delay judgement until I have the finished product infront of me.
This is great. The original Oracle wasn't unplayable, or anything, but they were notably inferior to other spontaneous caster classes. This is a much needed buff that makes the class easier to use and adds to the flavor.
I absolutely love this. Oracle is such a conceptually awesome class. Making them stronger and more intuitive is exactly what the doctor ordered.
Ronald, I love your videos! Ty for all you do for our community
This is sick. Love the oracle curse concept, the example with Dead Walk makes me excited for getting into higher cursebound values
This sneak peak looks far more promising, and way more informative, than the Swashbuckler's preview. Much better.
It seems like they took the class in a direction that most Oracle players from PF1e wanted. I never liked PF1e style due to how irrelevant some curses were (which were also the "meta" picks). I think Paizo managed to capture both the flavor and the versatility. This might be the best course of action after all. Win, win.
I'm so glad I never have to play with another dual cursed life Oracle/paladin multiclass.
I'm currently running a homebrew campaign and one of my players is a tempest oracle. The character is delightful in every scene, but the player has told me about all the hoops he has to go through to get access to more air and water spells (mostly on the primal spellcasting list, not divine). I'm so excited to see the changes they make so that hopefully he can have a better mechanical experience with his character
Very nice dive into the Oracle preview Ronald!
Thank God they're adding more spells to the mysteries. Why would anyone play a flame Oracle when there're only six divine spells that deal fire damage, and none of them are burning hands, scorching ray, or fireball
Literally! Flame was also my favorite in terms of flavor (tied with cosmos) but Divine Access practically felt like a mandatory feat tax
Really looking forward to the remaster for this class. The flavor has always been top tier but mechanically I could never really get it to make sense.
As a lover of PF1 Oracle and a hater of PF2 Oracle I’m very excited about the changes.
As always, great job Ronald!
I have seen two oracles in two short games that I GMed and just looking at these changes, it looks pretty good on paper and my players liked the direction as well. We all looking forward to see how this all will look in PC2.
I've played 4 oracles (battle, cosmos, life, and ancestors) and I've always enjoyed myself. The class is complex and requires being willing to accept negatives(something many players simply don't like at all). I think that's what leads to so many bad play experiences.
The concept of the class is really fun and I think that's what draws players in, but if you don't actually enjoy the idea of taking guaranteed negatives for potential gains you are likely ensuring yourself a bad time. This class was for the people that want to walk the line between danger and power, and that's just not for everyone. And IMO, that's okay. I mean, the fighter class will never be for me. Just being the best at hitting with a weapon over and over had never been my play style, and that's okay. I just hope the risk/reward of the oracle makes it through.
So true that the premise is just not for some people. That kind of tradeoff is very much my jam, but I've played enough of a variety of games with people to see that even an inconsequential negative is unpalatable to some people, even if they get something out of it.
I think that the new oracle is supposed to give much clearer rewards for the risks you're taking.
Thank you for this, and I really look forward to your full Core 2 Oracle, as you've done with Alchemist.
Interesting part of foretell harm is that it seems it would also work with focus spells, which really gives you a very renewable source of damage
I've only played Pathfinder 1e, but I always really liked the Oracle's flavor and gameplay style in that version
Sup, hope this class gets some love
its definitely a class that needs love.
Never played an oracle but i've always been enamored with the idea of them. This looks really cool.
Ooo, these all seem like really fun and thematic changes! And it seems like they are teasing a lot more options, looks like Oracle might be a lot more fun and interesting to build soon!
I like the idea of using feats to customize the benefits you get from your oracle curse, and if every feat is as cool as the Dead Walk I think it will be a great remaster for the oracle.
That seems really cool. Can’t wait to see the Champion and Alchemist.
Did you miss the bit where it said "when you use" in "The Dead Walk"? You have to already be at the level of cursebound before using to get the commensurate benefit.
That was sort of my question. That's how I read it at first, but then the scaling would be strange if that were the case...
BUT now I realize that it is probably assumed, if it works like it does now, that you will be Cursebound 1 going into most encounters in a day. I'll "errata" this in a pinned comment (thanks)
"YOU TEASE US PAIZO"
Did not Remaster blanked remove all other rules for focus points and just basing it on number of focus spells you have, so i assume it will be the same for Oracle
Good question! We'll see
Here is to hoping. Im one of the few who are skeptical of the new method of advancing curses but lets see when it comes out. Im curious about where they will fit the benefits of the curses. Will they be feats now or automatically gained at certain levels? I am excited about the expanded spells and domains.
My paizo subscription is showing shipping for Player Core 2 in 3-14 days so pdfs should be available soon (tm).
Sad that you didn't do a reaction video for the Swashbuckler preview! 😢
I feel like cursebound is a condition that can't go below 0 so cursebound 1 would be the base level of the condition
Fortell Harm is interesting. It doesn't say you have to choose only one target. Doing 2x spell level damage to all targets of an AoE spell is pretty great for a level 1 feat.
I found the feat name being "The Dead Walk" hilarious
My main concern is how prevalent curse specific feats are going to be. They took all the flavorful mystery unique benefits away from curses, leaving them with only intrinsic drawbacks. If you can't get those benefits back in the form of feats like The Dead Walk, you'll feel like "a generic oracle with unique downsides" rather than a fully unique subclass. The Dead Walk is a level 10 feat, which is worrying to me. If these subclass specific feats aren't available as early as the first few levels, the subclasses are going to pretty much just blur together for most of a characters career. "Which subclass you should take" would become a question of which one impacts your playstyle the least, because it's all downside. Which means all oracles would feel nearly identical until high levels when divine access and the more unique feats come into play.
If on the other hand, we get these sorts of feats early on, and consistently throughout our career, then it becomes a feat tax to get to have a subclass, which is probably a better outcome, but it's still pretty bad.
Maybe they could even do something like with the kineticist where you get to pick a couple cursebound feats extra throughout the levels, who knows. I really liked that flexibility for my Air/Water Kineticist
I think you've missed two important things. 1) choosing your mystery doesn't just affect what kind of curse you have, but it also affects what focus spells you have and what feats you can pick, and 2) the article mentions that a lot of the older curse effects have been turned to cursebound feats, like Meddling Futures, which is just the old Ancestors curse. And while we don't know what level these feats are, I'm confident they are earlier than level 10.
I am actually really excited about this because it seems like it's making the Oracle more.Oracle theme if that makes sense. There was so little to gain in their spellwest that every other oracle didn't Get an each mystery just kind of felt disjointed from the class
Sounds like they might be removing the flavor of the oracle mysteries which i'm not a huge fan of. I like when the sub-classes provide enough flavor to really feel different like the kineticist. You always know what kind of kineticist you are partying with because of what they are able to do.
By the looks of it, based on the "subclass exclusive" cursebound ability feats, it seems they aren't doing that.
I suspect they'll take generic actions that could apply to any oracle and let every oracle take them, while restricting most of them based on flavor.
Where do you get the impression they are removing the flavor of the mysteries? They didn't mention how the mystery entries will look like, but I highly doubt they are getting rid of the mystery benefits and related skill. The curse drawbacks are also stated to be specific to the chosen mystery and there are unique cursebound feats for the mysteries.
I'm currently writing a homebrew creation guide. This is an excerpt from that guide which I think applies here.
."..One of the biggest mistakes I see homebrewers make is believing that they have balanced something because they have added a drawback. This is wrong. Akuma is no less broken with 800 HP than he is with 1000 HP. If you get that reference, you are awesome, and if you don’t, just know that drawbacks are just excuses. Don’t build drawbacks into your homebrew so that you can add power. Build a good homebrew and it will naturally have drawbacks..."
The Oracle is a perfect example of how this sort of thing can create something bad. The flavor of the oracle is great. i love it, and it makes for great characters. But the mechanics that are built into the class are bad, precisely because they created drawbacks to add power instead of creating a class that naturally has drawbacks. The best drawbacks (for balance) are opportunity costs, but what paizo did here was basically playing numbers.
Now, Paizo is a professional company with professional game designers and they CARE about the game and the oracle, so the Oracle is not unbalanced but it suffers from the "feels bad" effect specifically because it makes the same mistake that homebrewers make.
Looking at this cursed condition, i'm hoping addiction get's a little bit more love.
I kinda want to make an army chef whom brews some mean coffee, and has the good cigarettes
for the Dead Walk, does it check your cursebound level when you USE the feat, so you are locked at , 0 if you use it at 0, then you go to Cursebound 1?
I think it's meant to check it when you use the feat, and the cursebound value increases after the feat is used.
At 5:27 you declare that the extra damage from Foretell Harm is UNTYPED. While you say that your curser highlight touches the very next sentence which says that it is type-matched to the spell that you used to enable the feat, e.g. fire damage causes them to catch on fire. Also, in "The Dead Walk" it explicitly gives "heightened-like" effects for Cursebound 2 and 3, but nothing beyond. Does this imply that 3 is the highest curse binding?
I think Ronald didn't mean the damage type but rather the bonus type, it is not status bonus, circumstance bonus nor an item bonus and can theoretically stack with any bonus, the other feats and features that work similar to this give typed bonuses that can't stack with same type damage bonuses.
@@kamencraftbrasil4367 That's right (Iafter recording this in 1 long take I decided not to overdub and put a clarification in a caption onscreen)
I always thought of the oracle as nothing but a divine sorcerer with features that were harder to understand
The feeling I am getting out of Oracle is that you will be retraining ALL the time. Since vibe I am getting from those 2 feats is that you will want to eventually replace your low level Cursebound actions with higher tier ones.
Not really. You gain cursebound actions through feats. You can't retrain the feat you took at level 2 for a level 10 feat, even if you are level 10.
The Retraining rules don't allow you to replace lower-level feats with higher-level ones, however
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Not exactly what I meant. I imagine not all feats are Cursebound. So as you gain levels you may be incentivised to swap Low Level Cursebound feats for Low Level feats without it. Keeping a small selection of Cursebound feats and supplementing them with more.. consistent ones.
@@TheNeiven Gotcha. I do wonder if the Level 1 feat you get for free from your Mystery is retrainable. Currently you can't retrain free Level 1 feats from a subclass due to the language "When retraining, you generally can't make choices you couldn't make when you selected the original option."
We'll have to see about your concern for cursebound feats generally, meanwhile, and whether higher-level ones clearly outclass/are more generally applicable than lower ones.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG 99% sure we wont be able to retrain the free feat from Mystery, at least not RAW. But I think it is fair to say that loading yourself up with purely Cursebound feats will run a high chance of character ending up with a lot of their cards unplayed because Curse would rack up too high. Which lands us in an interesting state - not often found in other classes that often - Where level 18 (numbers randomly chosen for the point) "build' will end up having much different base of low level feats than level 10 build.
Uncharted waters ahead. Could be interesting, could be bad! Only trial by fire will show. The Dead Walk gives me hopes as in the past a lot of caster feats felt like they lacked some in world firework to them. Or fell under the umbrella term of Solution in search of a problem.
"Say you just cast magic missile" But isn't the Oracle a divine caster and magic missle is an arcane and occult spell?
I guess they could get arcane or occult spellcasting from an archetype
With more domains for each mystery, divine access should allow quite a few of them to pick Nethys, Gravelady's Guard, or Lorthact, all of whom have Magic Missle/Force Barrage on their spell list.
Gimme a break! This was a cold reaction! :P
(But yes, you're right!)
EDIT: Oh and yes, there are domains as someone brought up, harrumph
Everyone is wrong. It's Force Barrage
Hey, don't forget Divine Access! Loreacle could pick off of Nethys pretty easy
Fireball is my go to example spell whether it's valid or not.
oracle, my beloved
I might have to play an oracle post Remaster 👀
"... the oracle's curse now just strictly debuffs the player. We've done it - no, no, no, come back..."
Tier list creators: *"LEAVE THEM ALONE, THEY'RE ALREADY DEAD"* 😭
Oracle enjoyers: "It's okay, we can take it." 🗿
Wait, they still haven't made remastered alchemist?
They have they are just waiting to show it off sadly
It's coming in PC2.
All I've ever wanted was to play in a game where all magic has a terrible price.
Never really liked Oracle, nothing about it ever felt worth taking on and juggling penalties. Especially with Cleric right next door with only positives and a pseudo-martial option, so I'm hopeful the new changes will make Oracle look more appealing to me.
On a slight side tangent though; while I never really held out hope for it, I thought for a while now Oracle could have been a Divine/Occult caster, chosen at chargen. The flavour of divination and curses honestly fits Occult better than Divine for me.
kinda disappointed bc this feels like it'll take much of the flavor and uniqueness out of choosing a mystery. but maybe restricting certain feats based on which mystery you chose will help with that.
You're also forgetting unique focus spells.
Edit: In addition, I've learned that each curse gets its own unique cursebound feat at first level.
Ooh oracle
Overly complicated? Ive got two braincells and Oracles is just more reading than some other classes. It might be hard to optimize for but not all classes need to be built for min maxing
Nope, Fortell harm is bad, imo, because your curse augment for a little more damage.
But it is guaranteed damage of a specific amount without save, so it is quite good. Especially if you cast a spell on an enemy that has a weakness to a certain type of damage.
@@eamk887 learning that focus spell won't be cursebound make this much better.
Not loving this. Seems to strip out all the cool parts of oracle to appease people who didn't like the class before. But at the cost of ruining it for all the people that *did* like the class before.
Well all six of you can play another class then.
I'm pretty sure almost nothing was "stripped", things were just moved around.
The warrior spirits don't help you or your team flank, it says they Strike and then dissapear so they don't stick around long enough for that.
Except at the end of the spell it says "The warriors disappear at the start of your next turn." It is confusing, yes, but I think RAI is that they stick around long enough for your friends to benefit from them.
Ronald i love you, but my goodness what is that Nethys color scheme 🤮
LOL I'm part of Dark Mode Nation, but AON is a bit too stark for me!
Yeah Remaster Oracle is great if you didn't like Oracle. It's dogshit if you liked Oracle. Since more info has come out it's been really bad, imo; a lot of flavor and unique passives lost in favor of 4 slot casting and feats that are not entirely unique and only sometimes replicate what you want. Divine Access got screwed, Battle Oracle got screwed, the whole thing is ass. Massive, relatively rare Paizo L
Cautious with this one. The 2E was a train wreck from the start, it'll take a good amount of work to fix it.
they are already fixing the biggest flaw, cursbound being on focus spells. did you know that archtype oracles didn't have the complete and total loss of all of their cursebound focus spells if they overloaded but main class oracles did? it is super dumb, if the party is getting some terrible roles and your oracle has to use more than 1 focus point per combat they can completely lose all access to focus spells for the rest of the adventure. This frees up their focus spells and even removes the penalties for using them (life link gonna go even harder) and even the as shown feats are fantastic looking, up to 16d6 without spending a spell slot at level 10 is very good and provides allies with flanking (and maybe yourself since you can do that in the thick of combat without fear of AoO and strike afterwards with no MAP)