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I just finished the video, and the outro made me kindof emotional...I always come back to your shenanigans with your friends on Destiny 2. Will you still make content with your friends? Don't mind if it's you and your friends exploring other games, either as one-offs, sponsors or playthroughs. Just need you and your friends' energy.
My biggest problem with the campaign is Elsie Bray needed to be a part of this story. From the moment she showed up in Destiny 1; her goal was to change the future. To avoid a certain future. Where was she to help???
That is a valid point, but I think it could be argued that the future was changed in Beyond Light. In her timeline, every guardian who learned Stasis fell to the influence of Darkness (The Witness), including our own. Her Dark Future Timeline begins with the discovery of Stasis; since we learn how to use Stasis without becoming corrupted, her timeline is avoided.
23:23 - the reason why the Iron Lord axe is in Crow's room is that he's the reason why Saladin had to join Caiatl's War Council. Saladin left him the axe as a symbol of his forgiveness, however Crow still feels guilt over having indirectly sent him to work for the Cabal.
Jez barely plays seasonal content, and when he does, he pays zero attention to the story because he's making jokes with Trvl Danielle and/or Datto for the audience. If he reads this, I'm 100% sure it will be the first time he's learning about it.
@@RobertoArboleda Fair, but stories you can't experience after the season disappears should not have an impact on future expansions... I know Bungie are incapable of a new player experience, but jesus fucking christ.
@@ajeenius7437 The axe is essentially an Easter egg for those who played the seasons, I guess. But yeah I agree that the new player experience sucks ass, and there should at least be a mega movie or something easily accessible in game explaining previous events, for new or returning players. And no, those super short inkblot style videos they're now doing are not nearly enough.
and it's by far the laziest way to write saladin out of the fucking game and put into a role as another vendor with a splash of cabal paint. a fucking waste it was.
Nathan Fillian’s return as Cayde was perfect, this was the Cayde we needed in Forsaken, Nolan North did a fine job filling in but Fillian just has a way of weaving in layers to the lines in his good appearances
It's not that the "story uses too many words", it's that the story dresses up simple game mechanics or random story beats with needless jargon from the characters that doesn't actually mean anything. Here's a real quote from the game. "This is not like charting a course through the currents of sea or the depth of space. This is an architecture defined by how we imagine it. Not dissimilar from the ascendant plane, but if more like it's opposite. The ascendant plane mirrors aspects of our world, aspects of our will and import to those who traverse it. Those aspects are decided upon through our actions. The Veil, conversely, weaves not with our will, not our decisions, but with intent, unfiltered by logic. What we feel, not what we decide. Mapping such a thing would be like... rebuilding a creature from the calcified remains we found aboard the pyramid ships. They are an image of a dissection. A deadened echo of existence. But look at them as they are, to see their disparate parts... Even understanding their anatomy does not give us the knowledge to make them as they were. I will continue to seek the path the Witness forged into the traveler, but I am... no longer confident that it could ever be walked again. All this to say "Guardian I am probably the smartest person in the world and I have no idea how the Witness got into the traveler". What makes this so frustrating is that stuff like this plagues almost all of the dialogue in the game, especially mission dialogue.
Yet somehow, our favorite memer has a tighter, more on-target script than Bungie's needless exposition dumps that last 5-=10 minutes every time you kill 100 Fallen for a quest step. 25k words is just right tbh imo lmao.
Isn’t crow and mara being twins linked through space the entire reason we sent crow into the traveler first in season of the wish? Like come on Jeb I haven’t had destiny installed since before lightfall
That was mostly explored in seasonal content. If you watch this channel regularly, you know this guy barely plays seasonal content, and when he does he's all the time joking around with Travel Danielle and/or Datto and paying zero attention to the story.
@@RobertoArboleda and when you make a 2 hour long, 25 thousand word story video with references and cross-examination from lore creatoors, the least you can do is watch a 20 minute seasonal recap. the excuse is not valid.
I mean, the real issue is that half of the relevant plot points that make this campaign make complete sense are from seasonal stories that aren't in the game anymore. For instance with the first mission, the doorway into the Traveler was impassable under normal circumstances, which is why after Lightfall we scrambled to find a way inside. Eventually we settled on a plan to get inside, using the Ahamkara, we sent Crow in ahead so he and Mara could establish a link and Mara could use that link to open up the doorway so we could pass through and onto the other side. At the beginning of The Final Shape, Mara begins her part of the plan allowing us to pursue the Witness into the Traveler. When we landed in that first area, we were still traversing the doorway into the Traveler which Mara was keeping open to allow us safe passage, which is why she was in pain, because the Witness was trying to stop her from keeping it open, and prevent us from getting any closer. Because the Witness knew we were a threat.
That makes me wonder, after we go inside and the Witness "closes" the door, what changes right before the final mission that suddenly lets Mara come into the coms and say shes bringing the Helm in? At this point we havent damaged the Witness so that cant be the reason why the portal reopened.
@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078 A division of it's attention/power. For the entire expansion The Traveler is actively resisting The Witness's attempts to take control of The Light. So between struggling for control and trying to stop/sway us, It can't effectively stop Mara from opening the doorway like it did before. And each building up mission we did further loosened it's hold on The Pale Heart.
@@Shadoefeenicks Sure, I don't disagree. But to be fair, I didn't play half the seasons cause I personally found they were too repetitive and formulaic. So I can't really blame people for skipping them entirely.
Only nitpicks i have with the campaign: - Crow using Saladin's axe, get that shit out of your hand, i deserve it more than you Crow - the witness being a scary villain only in the final act - the main new race being like "support units" instead of the main antagonists. I am TIRED of fighting the calus units, Bungie. - our 10.000 allies mattering only in the last damn mission - Micah-10 being possibly the next speaker and Shiro not being the next hunter vanguard. - The gameplay being still overall kinda boring.
Im gonna watch this and take a shot every time Jez bashes the ghost wish me luck Edit: Crying over having to witness losing Cayde once more AND I have alcohol poisoning now and am throwing up uncontrollably 10/10 experience thank you Jeb for everything you've done to the community and being one of the pillars who has kept me invested in D2 all these years o7
Something to note about Zavala's little vision quest, is that I think it went so poorly because he's been rejecting darkness. The Guardian has a huge advantage with the years of experience with Deepsight, Stasis, and Strand. Without it, we probably wouldn't have been able to carve it apart from the inside. Heck, having prismatic technically gives us the ability to warp reality. The Witness was right that everyone else was super weak at this point. But it was also wrong to think we could be tempted by anything less than a cool gun. Shiny harp gun go twong. Also, doing Wild Card as a hunter is super funny. It gives the impression that Cayde foisted the Vanguard role on Crow because he likes you better.
When I saw cayde about to give up his light for our ghost, I was really hoping he would become our ghost. So he would basically be our narritor moving forward. I thought that would have been pretty neat.
I remember i was on the brink of tears when cayde sacrificed himself for our ghost. That final line pushed me over the edge. I played this game franchise since i was 10 and now being an adult it was hard to say goodbye to the main story but in my opinion the final shape was the goodbye that was needed to the Light and dark saga
I actually like what they did with Targe, partly because of who they cast. Probably better known as a contender for the worst father in all fiction (Dr. Venture), Urbaniak plays Targe like an stern but impotent dad. He does all that fussing when Zavala runs off because he doesn't know how to handle the anxiety of losing his boy. And when he catches up with him, he immediately jumps into the Witness' face and starts talking shit, picking a fight he is obviously going to lose. Exactly like a dad. It's sadly sweet. Also, spending your last moments telling the Witness it's afraid is objectively stupidly brave, which is very Titan of him.
still died a more fitting and worthy death than Clark's father in Man of Steel. dumbass decided to die rather than let his kid save his life at no risk at all, for what, a secret? that the whole town already knew since Clark singlehandedly pushed his school bus out of a damn river? Targe went out like a Dad, Johnathan Kent went out like a bitch.
I actually agree with the overarching points raised here. I think what made it worse for me is the fact that I had gone through the entirety of FF14's MSQ just 4 months prior to TFS, and I found myself almost begging Bungie to make the campaign make me feel something. It just fell so short of what a capstone to a saga should feel like.
Alright, finally got through all of it and I gotta say that, while I personally got a lot more enjoyment out of The Final Shape campaign that you seemingly did, I'm finding it hard to genuinely disagree with most of your points. I think it's important for me to understand that my perspective - that of someone who dives a lot deeper into destiny's lore and world building -is going to be vastly different from the average (and arguably more common) player that doesn't engage with that side content, and this video gave me that perspective. Brilliantly written and spoken throughout. I'll be here to see wherever you go next
i went in assuming i would disagree with most of the video, and ended up agreeing with almost the entire video. i'm honestly shocked at how well-rounded, well-researched, and well-written pretty much all of his arguments are. jez, i'm gonna be sad not having you around to joke through content with datto and danielle, but if we get one of these kinds of bangers each month, then i think we'll all be more than happy!
24 minutes in and heres the points i have: yes we knew crow and mara were twins, that was a big part of season of the lost, and more specifically the exotic mission for Ager's Scepter. The Iron Lord room in crow's mission is in reference to season of the risen where crow, being mentored by saladin, killed one of caiatl's advisors and Saladin stepped up to face the consequences on his behalf. Its the whole reason Saladin is on Caiatl's war council. Crow feels guilty for saladin having to pay the price for his mistakes. Jez, I love you buddy, but you dont really have room to complain about not understanding the story when you've spent literal years avoiding learning any of the story. 😂😂
Eh, all of that is a part of seasonal content that no longer exists. While yes he did play it at the time it's still valid criticism to make since there are certainly players that DIDN'T play the game at that time that now just have to guess about the connections. And no, watching a recap on RUclips is not valid. That stuff should be in the game.
I agree partially, but any story that's only available in seasons is stupid. How will anyone right now go and play those stories? Not knowing Crow and Mara are twins is stupid though because that's always been a main story of Destiny thing. Multiple times. Since the very beginning of Destiny 1 year 1. He's still right about The Final Shape being terribel, but that's not something new/different. We knew it would be, and Destiny has been terrible for years with its expansions not being good since Forsaken at the least. But he sure is not the best person to talk about the story when he's missing basic general knowledge.
and yet, everything we learned from seasons is gone, and no one can re-experience, which frankly gives him every right to complain, because anyone who joined after a season has missed 90% of the story up to that point.
Seasonal content or not, he specifically asked if prior to the diorama in crows mission if it had ever been said they were twins. The answer is yes. Whether or not the specific content is still in the game doesnt change the fact that the information was previously provided. And the saladin bit is a bit more egregious given that it was literally the key scene from season of the chosen. While i agree that seasonal content being removed isnt conducive to ensuring that people understand the story, Jez is literally the least qualified to comment given his aggressive refusal to learn the story. He has literally spent years actively refusing to learn the story. The complaints about lack of context hold no weight coming from Jez specifically. You dont get to whine about your foot hurting, when youre the one who shot your foot. When your complaint is, 'there is no way (outside of lore) for me to have learned this information', and is just incorrect, it would be disingenuous to not point that out. I agree that final shape made some.... confusing choices, but those 2 points specifically were given context.
People say the Dread couldn't be made in a few months. I disagree. The Grim existed as a prototype for years. They just couldn't find a reason to finish them. The Weavers and the Stasis ones are just beefed up Psions. The Harbinger and the Stasis one(I can't remember Stasis names apparently) were already made. The Husk is probably 85% Fallen captain. Its not impossible they made these changes in months. I still don't care about the Witness, but I really did enjoyed the character side of the story.
I'm not sure what gave you the impression that Glint is supposed to be a "serious" character. His name before Glint was Pork Chop. He is probably only one or two steps behind Nimbus in terms of seriousness/comic relief. Every appearance in seasonal stories and holiday events has Glint be over dramatic and childishly silly. Whether his humor actually lands is definitely debatable, but I have never once thought of him as serious.
Fun Fact: The Witness has the most music tracks in Destiny History during his boss fights Campaign: "Ritual Site" and "Cut Away" Raid: "Unmade" Excision: "Stronger, Together", "Cusp of Finality" and "Make Your Own Fate"
This is kind of incorrect. Ritual site and cut away were just made as pale heart tracks and happened to be selected for Iconoclasm. Stronger Together/Cusp of Finality/Salvation’s Ruin/Make Your Own Fate is a single music system, they just split it up into 4 tracks on the soundtrack. Same goes for First Knife/Unmade. The witness has 2 music systems made specifically for it, which is just as much as, for example, Oryx had with Regicide/Last Stand. Calus at this point also has 2 massive music systems dedicated to him, although the Discipline/Desperate Measures/Tyrant Overthrown group isn’t wholly unique and only has individual portions that were made specifically for the campaign Calus fight.
having grown up with you, It is wild to see your transformation from a young adult with childish content to a mature father figure who still plays a childish way but with a artistic twist it is wonderful to watch you grow up.
I think part of the issue with ghost is that the guardian never talks to him. I don't hate ghost as much as you do. I'm more indifferent. But if bungie wanted to make Us care about ghost more, They should have our guardian Talk 2 ghost in the field instead of just ghost talking into the void. Like how in God of war and God of war Ragnarok there's the boat conversations.
The problem is that Bungie has always intended for us, the players, to fill in the blanks and reply to Ghost while we're playing. It's supposed to be a form of immersion. It's why the customizable guardian player is mostly mute and is always referred to as "them" in lore and dialogue. And honestly, it has never worked. I remember when people CHEERED in Forsaken when the guardian spoke a few lines because of Cayde's death after being mute for years. You'd think they would have taken the hint and turn the guardian into a more active protagonist. But no, they still to this day insist in making the guardian this awkward almost autistic character that is always peeping on private conversations and doesn't speak to their ghost.
@@mackncheese1683 Your comment makes no sense, but I don't care either way. I said what I said, and it's not my problem if you interpret my comment however the fuck you do. Have a good day.
@@mackncheese1683no no he has a point, the playable "Guardian" character really reeks of autism. I mean this as someone who knows many people on the spectrum. The way they choose to move about the universe and how they interact with these characters that they've been attached to for over a decade certainly has a strange tone to it. The game is set up in a way where your character essentially needlessly searches and rummages through every different method and destination in the universe, to hear the most of every conversation/dialogue between any two given characters, stores that information, and then never speaks to anyone about any of it at all. More so than a strong silent protagonist with intent, the way that the game is set up really gives off much more of a "this is my ADHD addiction for when I'm not shooting things" feel, especially when they CAN talk but choose not to, it really does start to feel like an ADHD/autism response of not knowing when to respond even when directly spoken to.
1:54:48 I have been saying that for so long now, Zavala love him but he should have been the one to give his life for his friends especially after finding redemption for his failures.
Wait monotone complainy guy who doesn’t have audio on and doesn’t read the subtitles DIDN’T like the story? Also: i wonder how Jez thinks of Datto’s raid explains…
Word nerd, here! (You'll call me a logophile and you'll *like it.*) I liked the way the Witness spoke, I felt like they spoke precisely and with intention, I understand someone seeing the Witness as pedantic, but the characterization worked for me.
Now this is a great comment here, it’s hard to find peeps that can talk about liking the narrative without trashing Jez for one reason or another. We all got our experiences here.
Its fine to use more words than necessary to describe but: Leave technical jargon for journal entries, not main story voiced lines. (optional voiced dialogue at a base is fine) have the extra words be funny: ex. instead of 'shoot the [targets], "use your burger hook on the bang switch to donate lead to that (insult) [target]"
Coming from the guy who has dialogue muted 98% of the time this doesn't really say much. Some of the complaints of not understanding just stems from not listening to previous story. I am only 20 minutes in and it's getting hard to listen to these self inflicted problems
Probably true, yes, but I think he’s just being ironic for the sake of comedy. Jez yapped for 2 hours about too many words. Textbook satire. While self-inflicted, I’m gonna err on the side of Jez delivering big brain humor😂
Yeah, luckily most of us already knew Jez was a bit late to class sometimes but its painful how some of his points come across as his lack of common sense as well as general ignorance of anything that happened in the story or lore. I could be fine with the video if it seemed more like he was poking fun at it and had any self awareness about his lack of understanding for the games story that he has been playing for a career nearly a decade, but he seems so serious about these TERRIBLE points.
Well, Jez is trying to make a point here, that a DLC story should be approachable for everyone imo. If you had to have played atleast past 2 seasons and read 2 volumes of lore content to understand what is going on in the new DLC, then it is poor story telling. Sure, he missed on some points. And it a bit stupid on his part. But to me it seems, like he is coming from a possition of new/I haven't played in years type of player. And to me atleast, this perfectly highlights flaws in destiny's narative structure as one of the problems why it is hard to recommend this game to your friends. After making a long break, I got back to the game with WQ release. And stayed till Final Shape. Now imagine a new player jumping straight into this right now. This whole DLC is then lost on them.
@@prototechnika I mean, TFS was marketed as the ending of a 10 year saga, I think it's expected of newer players to at least look into or play older narrative content if they truly want to understand the story and characters. It's like jumping into Halo 3, the ending of a trilogy, then complaining in the first cutscene about not getting it. Why did chief fall out the sky, why is this alien/arbiter siding with the humans, who is this blue lady that keeps flashing on my screen etc.
This video probably won't make your destiny loving fanbase happy. But this is genuinely the best kind of content you make. You weave in your own brand of humor very well, and I'd love to see you really master it. Good shit, Jez.
That was my immediate thought when he started complaining about draw out exposition. I can deal with it pretty well, but it grates on me sometimes too.
Goddess, y’all have been in this narrative too long. I’m sure you’ve played other games but this one seems to have normalized a certain kind of dialogue that people do in fact find bogged down. We can have different opinions yknow?
@@WitchofHeart13 no one said you couldn't have a different opinion my guy. My joke was just about there being an even worse example of dialogue bloat out there in gaming
I have to say, ever since the Taken King in D1 I have absolutely loathed all of Ghost's dialogue. I know the writing had some cringe lord lines for Dinklage, but he seemed to at least deliver everything with a better tone than what we ever gotten since. Similarly Glint's lines have been borderline for me too - Sagira seems like the only Ghost that has not made me want to slap myself in the face repeatedly.
Kay: We'll use pulsar level five, with a subsonic implosion factor. Jay: What? Kay: Just shoot the damn thing! Jez watching Men In Black: Yes, that is exactly what I'm talking about!
@@Xenmaru00 Exactly, and its totally fair not to like that personality, but I definitely enjoy ghost. (Always think back to the time he tried to do drifters voice, it was so stupid but I loved it XD)
Unpopular opinion in response? I think not only is ghost sometimes funny, but cayde-6 is sometimes not. I think the "i like crows hair cut" was short enough to be totally fine. Its not hilarious, but its not trying to be, its just a nice line tacked on. But Caydes "Oh noo crow, why did you kill the handsomest hunter in all of sol" was so fucking cringe, it breaks one of Jez' own tenants of "trying too hard". Cayde is overall still funnier than ghost imo, but i personally find ghost (and crow) more likeable than most people do, and i think while Cayde is very very likeable, he does have some unfunny moments that it feels like people are afraid to point out.
I was in your stream as you played through Final Shape and couldn’t believe how bad the writting and gameplay was. Between the old mechanics and puzzles/symbols busy work and lack of any original engagements all that’s left is a pretty lifeless Paleheart and cutscenes to praise. One of the biggest shams put forth by the remaining Destiny community is “how good” this dlc was…when playtime for this expansion tells you all you need to know. I love your cyberpunk breakdown and look forward to you tackling others games…maybe…stalker 2 😸
A proper feature length vid that isnt just compiled clips from the year? Having a kid really did change our boy Edit: 40:40 I could agree if Keith had been Zavala the whole time, but Lance's voice is so intertwined with Destiny at this point that I don't think a separation can occur.
Ok, I may not agree with you for some points but I do agree with "buffs our something by something percentage." It is absolutely insane that everything in this game that buffs regen or damage doesn't have a percentage and duration in paremthesis next to it, ans very annoying. Also I personally agree, I want abilities to suppliment gunplay, not be the gun
I guess I'll just talk about this while I watch, I too hated "I like Crow's haircut" from Ghost Everybody with the light can kinda feel like they're in the Traveller, that's why Cayde said that he knows, especially because he feels more like a Ghost does now I also agree, there is wayyyyy too much lore in this game that really should be told to us in some way Ok, Jez, if you listened to the seasons you play, then you would know they were twins. Also, media introducing you to new words that more concisely says a phrase in one word is not a bad thing A lot of the cringe comments by Ghost would be fixed if they just let our Guardian talk. He could have said something like "I think we need some better boots" or something like that. Then maybe something like Ghost asking how bad it is, and we say "barely a crack" but apprehensively, like we're sparing Ghost how bad it is Times like Zavala breaking in Witch Queen highlight how good Lance Reddick was, along with season of the Haunted. Lance was phenomenal for Zavala, and Keith David is so different that it doesn't feel like Zavala. I like Keith, but it'll never be the same Yes for the love of god Guardian speak, the campfire cutscene was so awkward I 100% agree, the section with all of us completely ignoring Zavala until at some point we just decide to investigate what he wanted is fucking insane, it's my least favorite part of this campaign Also again, Crow got the axe in a season from Saladin
Your point about how we should have fought Zavala reminded me of one of the trailers leading up to TFS release where they showed part of the cutscene of the abomination boss you fight in the Wild Card mission and it was right after or shortly after Ikora’s line “Zavala please don’t do this” and I remember thinking it would be CRAZY if Zavala gave in to the Witness and was mutated into an abomination that we had to fight
Y'know, despite how good the DLC is in relation to previous DLC, it's still really sad how it's so weighed down by incredibly basic and idiotic design choices. It feels like Bungie could have made something truly amazing, not just in terms of Destiny 2 but in gaming in general. But then they throw in so many curveballs, odd moments and detrimental design choices that it really just feels like wasted potential.
“If a game has too much word vomit…. Then less talky-talk means more fun-have.” Brother, this video took a longer runtime than The Banshees of Inisherin to say “Listening to other people talk sucks because lore doesn’t matter to me” 😂
My biggest gripe with the final shape campaign was that the witness spent so little time trying to recruit the guardian, y'know the literal godkiller (and even says this in the trailer with 0 elaboration in the campaign), and instead spends 100% of its time distracting our little buddies and then when we finally reach the final mission it starts swooning over us
i feel like that was a case of him trying to slowly "win" us by depriving us of our seeming source of strength: our allies. Remember the analogies, "the safe space lined by spears". The Witness, to me at least, seemed like he was attempting to remove not so much the spears but what allowed those spears to be in place. If we were Humanity's Spear, and our strength was the many hands that held us, then by removing those hands, he could defeat/convert us. Because flat-out destroying us entirely in one go, was never his goal.
tell me the commentors didnt watch past minute one without... you get the idea. title aside this is actually a pretty good objective review of not only final shape's weaknesses in story telling, but it's strengths as well. This isn't a video bashing the expansion, but one explaining where it was weak, where it was strong, and what theoretically could've been improved while providing examples and definitions. Very well done Jez, extremely worth watching all the way through, and i really enjoy this format of video and will be waiting for more!
I never would have expected this much Zavala glazing out of Jez. I get it that Zavala is correct to seek answers from the Darkness because the Light doesn't have any to give. But Jez saying that Targe's sacrifice meant nothing. Jez...literally what would have happened to Zavala if Targe or anyone else was not there to bail Zavala out. You claim he's a military commander and he knows what he's doing, but Zavala literally had no plan on what to do AFTER he gave himself to Darkness. Such a brilliant move, getting the crucial information to save the universe...only to die holding the crucial information to save the universe before you can tell anyone. The whole point of Ikora and Zavala's bickering is that they're now on opposite ends of the argument that they had in Forsaken. Ikora is thinking too conservatively because she can't bear to lose anyone else, and Zavala is willing to completely throw his life away on the HUNCH that he can get the answers he seeks without a plan or safety net for if (read as WHEN) things go south. They both wear these flaws so openly because they need to learn to trust one another again with the help of Cayde. Ikora needs to trust in the unknown quantities and Zavala needs to trust his teammates to have his back. The whole point of their character arc is that they keep arguing past one another and it's not until Zavala gets the information at the cost of Targe's life that they can finally coalesce and work together. Zavala has lost someone else he knows he can never get back and so he has to rely on who he has left. Ikora realizes that Zavala DID have the right idea and that maybe if she had trusted him, she could have been there to help him plan things out in order to spare any undue suffering or death. Like I get that this video is largely for comedy while also still being a critique of the story, but Jez is also just wildly misinterpreting many of the major plot and character beats to the point of utter frustration.
I get that it's fun to clown on jez for not paying attention despite him playing a lot of the content, but if you take this video from the perspective of a brand new player, this game has and will always be terrible for new players at giving any kind of context. Watching byfs 10 hour story so far video should not be required to play and understand what is going on in this game.
Yeah. Setting aside the comical format of the video, he raised a lot of valid points. To me the entire campaign is, while still ranging from "why is this even in the game" to "this makes me cry", a giant heap of missed potential. It had potential to be a fanastic narrative experience, not just in terms of Destiny but in terms of gaming in general, but Bungie is obsessed with so many weird and detrimental design choices it just left me feeling ... sad.
he is zipping around the screen to much great for attention, playing a game of "where is the hot guy" while listening to a yapping session makes me hard as always
banger video jez! personally being invested for so long in Destiny, this ending made me feel so many emotions, mostly good. And i loved what they did. BUT i can still see and am not ignorant to the fact that you make some very good points. well done dude. also, you not being invested in the story like some of us makes sense why this vid is what it is. people need to lighten up🤣
On the point of the Guardian showing affection for the ghost, it is MY opinion that it is not. Back in the red war, when we lose our light and the ghost falls, our guardian pulls them closer in what is likely an attempt to protect them. And I don't remember it too well, but at the end of beyond light when the ghost is frozen by Eramis?
I actually read both of those instances as a practical decision from the Guardian to protect what is literally keeping them in the narrative. In both instances Ghost is rendered helpless with a major enemy literally right next to them, and we don't want to pull a Cayde where we have our most important vulnerability exposed to the enemy. Nowhere in the entire game's lifespan has there been explicit "affection" from the bystander that is the player Guardian. Remember Thin Line's lore tab?
If it's true the dread were made in 5 months I have even less sympathy for how the game has gone since forsaken. They have the ability and shoot themselves in the foot with a short development time.
2:19 yes jez, the game does has a word vomit problem. Yes jez, we know you've had dialogue off since forsaken (or before). I recently turned mine off. Yes jez, I came here from your most recent video and am enjoying this one so far. Yes jez, this comment is way too long for your newly smoothed dad brain to read.
How did he spent X many hours writing this video only to put together a surface level "I hate ghost, cayde good" critique of the final shape? How did we go from his lightfall critique video to this? I only blame myself for expecting an actually good critique considering this guy can't stand a single datto explaination. Never cook again. PS: I still love your videos Jez, just not this one.
Great video, really hoped that you’d talk about how ridiculous it is that tinnitus is a debuf from the screechers. I couldn’t take this enemy type seriously after the tinnitus debut.
Green screen rants give monotone complainey guy vibes and I love it. That's how I found you and I'll stick with you no matter what you cover. Bring Danielle and datto along kicking and screaming too lol
I haven't watched much of it yet, but I wanted to address some comments I saw: Saying "but the story that gives you the context for *blank* happening isn't in the game anymore because the season was removed" doesn't mean the story was bad, it just means that the handling of content and story preservation mechanics are severely lacking and always have been. If you were willing, watching Byf's full history video before playing the final shape would fix that issue, but you shouldn't need to at all. Coming from someone who knows almost everything there is to know about the story, I loved it, but I totally understand that missing even a single mission or cutscene that was removed 2 years ago and therefore feeling completely lost is not cool.
I agree, but Jez gets so much less credit for it when for the past two years he has made a point of making sure everybody knows he is going out of his way to get zero story engagement or even any dialogue whenever he plays the game, and that he was in fact there for these crucial story missions.
Glint: "If I can't get to him, I can't rez him!" Meanwhile, Savathun sitting in Ikora's freezer for 2 years: "Something something, Bungie turned me into a Deus Ex Machnina."
This is the last thing I expected from Jez of all people but I'm up to see how much he payed attention when rewatching all cutscenes on RUclips. On a more serious note if this has to due with the "finality" of the story if you guys cant handle a main story getting an end then thats on you. Destiny can continue without the main story they built up for the final shape because it's not like all the story in destiny was solely building up for the final shape and I definitely like the stories outside of the final shape.
I can’t imagine what Jez would say about Genshin Impact. If you think Destiny 2 doesn’t respect your time with dialogue, oh boy, you ain’t seen nothing yet 😂
I’m 2:26 into this video and already I can see Jez just wants Destiny to be WoW. The quest step updates, the success sound effect, simple objectives explained simply. Jez, if you want to play an MMO, just go play an MMO. No hate, but like Destiny has always been a series that is very flowery with its language most of the time and is pretty rich with story. The gameplay is I’m sure what you like it for but there hasn’t been one expansion in Destiny 2 that hasn’t used this type of flowery expository language. Beyond Light? Yup. Lightfall? Yup. Witch Queen? Yup. Warmind? Yup. Curse of Osiris? Yup. Forsaken? The entire time we’re in the Dreaming City our ghost is talking like this. If you want a simple quest system with simple objectives and simple instructions, I highly recommend Throne and Liberty. Newest MMO that came out I believe. But you like Destiny for the gameplay, so I know you won’t. Again, no hate, I just can already tell I’m going to fundamentally disagree with this video. Edit: we’ll he just addressed it, but I have to say, the dialogue isn’t really careless. They’re having the characters explain it like so that it doesn’t feel superficial. I can guarantee that if the ghost just said “Guardian shoot the ball.” Everyone, including yourself, would find it annoyingly simple. It would feel like an insult to our intelligence. It would also make the entire expansion feel like it wasn’t well planned, wasn’t fully finished, and wouldn’t make the expansion any good at all. Same goes for every other expansion in the past. I do agree about the Dread intro being pretty lackluster. These are the Witnesses minions, darkness in the form of enemies. Why are they just… there?
Although I don't exactly disagree, you telling Jez to go play an MMO like Bungie doesn't develop Destiny 2 as an MMO is pretty funny to me, you're practically telling him to go play an MMO by not playing this MMO
I always hate when Jez gets super intellectual and in-depth about these stories....because it opens my eyes and I realize I'm just an easy-to-please, goofy little goblin who just loves shooting pew-pews and throwing space magic
Started with a feeling "omg now Jez making a rant video as he stopped playing D2" ended with a feeling "one of the best videos Jez has ever done about D2" It is really sad that the game brings back Savathun right a few month later we killed her and they only bring back Cayde 6 years later for a campaign length of participation. I feel there is someone at the upper management that has a bad history with Cayde-6 or one of his voice actors. Excellent job here Jez! Thank you for all the funny times and smiles you put on my face while I watch these videos at the office for all these years!
Jez I've enjoyed your content for a really long time but story analysis is really not your strong suit. You've reveled in a reputation of "no thinky think, only shooty shoot" and to try and intellectually put down the writing and story telling of Destiny (while valid criticisms can be made) seems very ingenuine and like you straight up don't know what you're talking about. You do raise some salient points about bloat and dialogue but these aren't original points, you don't really bring up anything that hasn't already been said. If you're done with Destiny then that's sad but okay, it just comes across poorly when you have proudly boasted that you have dialogue volume muted and then claim that the game isn't communicating well. Hope you come back with something different next time (this is all just my opinion before commentors tear me apart)
In my play thru the part where Ghost talks about the crack in his shell was hilarious cuz im using the boaty mcboatface shell with his cute little sailor hat
I get that a lot of people are nit picking what Jez has to say because he isn't the biggest lore guy and some things are explained to us, but this entire review seems very fair from a different kind of perspective. He brought up a lot of very valid criticisms about the narrative (Targe for one) and also praised the moments where the narrative succeeded. It seems like many of the people making these salty comments didn't finish watching the entire thing...
@@hithere5553 He's reviewing and critiquing the narrative, it's allowed to have a lot of explanation. Exposition dumps are a valid criticism for many types of stories, Destiny is definitely no stranger to that.
He definitely has some valid points regarding the narrative of TFS itself, but even with Byf throwing the textbook at him he misses too much with regard to context leading into the narrative for me to even want to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding the mistakes that would have been easier to avoid when he's historically done his best not to engage with the story.
45:00 this is basically my entire issue with the game. the entire game felt like we were mostly just doing filler stories in between when the big bad shows up and then tries to kill everyone vs actually doing it. bungie do not know how to write a fucking story and i hate being told "we'll get to it......." and then it never really happens.
22 minutes in and I get the feeling Jez just hates not having things explicitly explained to him slowly in game and hates ghosts inexplicably. If your only point of complaint that you bring up over and over is "I don't understand because too many word". Like...I don't want the ghost to literally just say "shoot that ball", games and fictional media can dress up simple concepts in fancy words and jargon all the time. Play literally like any DnD campaign or a futuristic game like cyberpunk 2077 and they do this. It doesn't hit a specific nerve with me like it does with Jez for some reason. Also why the witness uses flowerly language might be because...he's made up of like 5000 people? I personally like the way the witness talks, it gives just the slightest tugging at the corner of the players mind that they might be seeing things on a "higher level" than us and that maybe they know something we don't.
"Like...I don't want the ghost to literally just say "shoot that ball"" I mean, neither does he. He is simply pointing out how simple directives are explained in an overly convoluted and/or unnecessary manner. There's a difference between giving appropriate and concise directions that suit the tone, and long winded explanations that exist solely for the sake of explaining things. While the Witness using "flowery" language certainly could help it appear to be a higher being of sorts, in the end it's gonna have little effect if it leads to players not being able to comprehend what they're talking about. Situations that use language unknown to the player can certainly be used well, it's not an inherently bad thing. But that method relies on the game/scene to give the player different context clues. Using that method when the entire purpose of a scene is to explain something would be like me wanting to show you a beautiful scenery while also asking you to wear a blindfold.
this is the first time I've heard Keith David Zavala and i am instantly on board. i loved Lance Reddick and am really sad he's passed, but omg Keith David is perfect
I think this is an incredibly well thought out video with meaningful input and criticisms of what was supposed to be the final big bang for this whole saga. I'm glad I experienced it through this tbh.
1:05:11 my personal theory is that early versions of the story had Zavala sacrificing himself but when we lost Lance they decided to change it but the narrative was too strong for them to drop it completely
Jez mate.. i love you and you humour but "less talky - talk equals more fun have" and "shoot ball" you really just hate world building dont you? you take playing a game literally and dont want to engage with the world and fantasy lol.
If we watch the video then we can see examples of the preferred dialogue later when he talks about Cayde’s cadence lol. The persona seems to be difficult to get around but that’s partially due to people coming into this with a serious mood of defending the story sadly, we can all exist in our own perspectives equally.
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9mbDXvDNqTU/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](/img/tr.png)
Spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on this one, hope you like it.
Corepunk is an isometric MMO with a blend of MOBA, and ARPG. Get into the Early Access now 👉 cw9m.short.gy/th3jez
*some hours, no dollars.
i am sorry bro but time to pivot this is not it. story analysis without ever interacting with the story is WILD.
@@Th3Jez worst attempt at rage bait slop
I just finished the video, and the outro made me kindof emotional...I always come back to your shenanigans with your friends on Destiny 2. Will you still make content with your friends? Don't mind if it's you and your friends exploring other games, either as one-offs, sponsors or playthroughs. Just need you and your friends' energy.
OMG you effing nailed it.
Gen X here crawling out to tell you.
Your opinions are always valid and valued.
You are the son I never acknowledged.
My biggest problem with the campaign is Elsie Bray needed to be a part of this story. From the moment she showed up in Destiny 1; her goal was to change the future. To avoid a certain future. Where was she to help???
I thought this was covered in season of the seraph? Dark future avoided
Rasputin doesn’t destroy the traveler in our timeline
That is a valid point, but I think it could be argued that the future was changed in Beyond Light. In her timeline, every guardian who learned Stasis fell to the influence of Darkness (The Witness), including our own. Her Dark Future Timeline begins with the discovery of Stasis; since we learn how to use Stasis without becoming corrupted, her timeline is avoided.
That's cold lol
She didn't have time to explain why she didn't have time to explain... and Bungie didn't have time to care.
I'm very disappointed in this as well. 😤
23:23 - the reason why the Iron Lord axe is in Crow's room is that he's the reason why Saladin had to join Caiatl's War Council. Saladin left him the axe as a symbol of his forgiveness, however Crow still feels guilt over having indirectly sent him to work for the Cabal.
Jez barely plays seasonal content, and when he does, he pays zero attention to the story because he's making jokes with Trvl Danielle and/or Datto for the audience. If he reads this, I'm 100% sure it will be the first time he's learning about it.
@@RobertoArboleda Fair, but stories you can't experience after the season disappears should not have an impact on future expansions... I know Bungie are incapable of a new player experience, but jesus fucking christ.
@@ajeenius7437 The axe is essentially an Easter egg for those who played the seasons, I guess. But yeah I agree that the new player experience sucks ass, and there should at least be a mega movie or something easily accessible in game explaining previous events, for new or returning players. And no, those super short inkblot style videos they're now doing are not nearly enough.
Crow is cringe never liked him
and it's by far the laziest way to write saladin out of the fucking game and put into a role as another vendor with a splash of cabal paint. a fucking waste it was.
Nathan Fillian’s return as Cayde was perfect, this was the Cayde we needed in Forsaken, Nolan North did a fine job filling in but Fillian just has a way of weaving in layers to the lines in his good appearances
*Uploads 25,646 word long rant*
Point number one: "The story just uses too many words IMO!"
29 words to say "shoot ball" vs 25k words to say "me no likey". Is he the true final shape?
Yea it’s called cringe exposition half the times when these characters talk is fucking stupid
Underrated comment. SOMEONE GIVE THIS GUARDIAN HIS LIKES!!!!!!!!
It's not that the "story uses too many words", it's that the story dresses up simple game mechanics or random story beats with needless jargon from the characters that doesn't actually mean anything. Here's a real quote from the game.
"This is not like charting a course through the currents of sea or the depth of space. This is an architecture defined by how we imagine it. Not dissimilar from the ascendant plane, but if more like it's opposite. The ascendant plane mirrors aspects of our world, aspects of our will and import to those who traverse it. Those aspects are decided upon through our actions. The Veil, conversely, weaves not with our will, not our decisions, but with intent, unfiltered by logic. What we feel, not what we decide. Mapping such a thing would be like... rebuilding a creature from the calcified remains we found aboard the pyramid ships. They are an image of a dissection. A deadened echo of existence. But look at them as they are, to see their disparate parts... Even understanding their anatomy does not give us the knowledge to make them as they were. I will continue to seek the path the Witness forged into the traveler, but I am... no longer confident that it could ever be walked again.
All this to say "Guardian I am probably the smartest person in the world and I have no idea how the Witness got into the traveler".
What makes this so frustrating is that stuff like this plagues almost all of the dialogue in the game, especially mission dialogue.
Yet somehow, our favorite memer has a tighter, more on-target script than Bungie's needless exposition dumps that last 5-=10 minutes every time you kill 100 Fallen for a quest step. 25k words is just right tbh imo lmao.
Isn’t crow and mara being twins linked through space the entire reason we sent crow into the traveler first in season of the wish? Like come on Jeb I haven’t had destiny installed since before lightfall
Precisely
It's tough to discuss story when you've been ignoring it every time you could
That was mostly explored in seasonal content. If you watch this channel regularly, you know this guy barely plays seasonal content, and when he does he's all the time joking around with Travel Danielle and/or Datto and paying zero attention to the story.
@@RobertoArboleda and when you make a 2 hour long, 25 thousand word story video with references and cross-examination from lore creatoors, the least you can do is watch a 20 minute seasonal recap. the excuse is not valid.
Blame seasonal content removing crucial story information every year.
I mean, the real issue is that half of the relevant plot points that make this campaign make complete sense are from seasonal stories that aren't in the game anymore.
For instance with the first mission, the doorway into the Traveler was impassable under normal circumstances, which is why after Lightfall we scrambled to find a way inside.
Eventually we settled on a plan to get inside, using the Ahamkara, we sent Crow in ahead so he and Mara could establish a link and Mara could use that link to open up the doorway so we could pass through and onto the other side.
At the beginning of The Final Shape, Mara begins her part of the plan allowing us to pursue the Witness into the Traveler.
When we landed in that first area, we were still traversing the doorway into the Traveler which Mara was keeping open to allow us safe passage, which is why she was in pain, because the Witness was trying to stop her from keeping it open, and prevent us from getting any closer. Because the Witness knew we were a threat.
That makes me wonder, after we go inside and the Witness "closes" the door, what changes right before the final mission that suddenly lets Mara come into the coms and say shes bringing the Helm in?
At this point we havent damaged the Witness so that cant be the reason why the portal reopened.
@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078 A division of it's attention/power. For the entire expansion The Traveler is actively resisting The Witness's attempts to take control of The Light. So between struggling for control and trying to stop/sway us, It can't effectively stop Mara from opening the doorway like it did before. And each building up mission we did further loosened it's hold on The Pale Heart.
@@aceofsharks9837 They also outright say this
right, but this campaign was for established players, who most likely played those seasons.
@@Shadoefeenicks Sure, I don't disagree. But to be fair, I didn't play half the seasons cause I personally found they were too repetitive and formulaic. So I can't really blame people for skipping them entirely.
Jez in streams: no music, no dialogue
Jez the monotone guy: *WHERE IS MY EFFING HIDE HUD BUTTON I WANNA SAVOR THIS MOMENT*
TLDR; jez hates words and can't read
I don't think the video has been out long enough for you to have even finished watching it.
@@matthewboan616 I think you're dumb
Refuses to read/listen to the story is probably more accurate lol.
Yes
conveniently. he also left out of this video the fact he hasnt paid attention to destiny 2 story or even the game in like a year
95% of viewers’ comments:
“Lmao Jez can’t read”
The 5% of viewers who actually finished this video:
*“Holy shit Jez is quitting Destiny.”*
@@hithere5553
I mean I like watching Jez, TravelDanielle and Datto doing Destiny content. Kinda sad if that’s coming to an end.
Yeah, we all did with TFS. Who cares if one more person does
@@ryanfleshbourne3547 Nah I'll be here til Disney lets Hugh Jackman stop playing Wolverine. Maybe less intensely, but still here.
Check his most recent vid he said he’s not outright quitting rather focusing on other things
Only nitpicks i have with the campaign:
- Crow using Saladin's axe, get that shit out of your hand, i deserve it more than you Crow
- the witness being a scary villain only in the final act
- the main new race being like "support units" instead of the main antagonists. I am TIRED of fighting the calus units, Bungie.
- our 10.000 allies mattering only in the last damn mission
- Micah-10 being possibly the next speaker and Shiro not being the next hunter vanguard.
- The gameplay being still overall kinda boring.
Im gonna watch this and take a shot every time Jez bashes the ghost wish me luck
Edit: Crying over having to witness losing Cayde once more AND I have alcohol poisoning now and am throwing up uncontrollably 10/10 experience thank you Jeb for everything you've done to the community and being one of the pillars who has kept me invested in D2 all these years o7
You still alive???
@eduardoceron4636 This might have been the worst idea I have ever had
lmaoooooo
Something to note about Zavala's little vision quest, is that I think it went so poorly because he's been rejecting darkness. The Guardian has a huge advantage with the years of experience with Deepsight, Stasis, and Strand. Without it, we probably wouldn't have been able to carve it apart from the inside. Heck, having prismatic technically gives us the ability to warp reality. The Witness was right that everyone else was super weak at this point.
But it was also wrong to think we could be tempted by anything less than a cool gun. Shiny harp gun go twong.
Also, doing Wild Card as a hunter is super funny. It gives the impression that Cayde foisted the Vanguard role on Crow because he likes you better.
When I saw cayde about to give up his light for our ghost, I was really hoping he would become our ghost. So he would basically be our narritor moving forward. I thought that would have been pretty neat.
I remember i was on the brink of tears when cayde sacrificed himself for our ghost. That final line pushed me over the edge. I played this game franchise since i was 10 and now being an adult it was hard to say goodbye to the main story but in my opinion the final shape was the goodbye that was needed to the Light and dark saga
I actually like what they did with Targe, partly because of who they cast. Probably better known as a contender for the worst father in all fiction (Dr. Venture), Urbaniak plays Targe like an stern but impotent dad. He does all that fussing when Zavala runs off because he doesn't know how to handle the anxiety of losing his boy. And when he catches up with him, he immediately jumps into the Witness' face and starts talking shit, picking a fight he is obviously going to lose. Exactly like a dad. It's sadly sweet.
Also, spending your last moments telling the Witness it's afraid is objectively stupidly brave, which is very Titan of him.
still died a more fitting and worthy death than Clark's father in Man of Steel. dumbass decided to die rather than let his kid save his life at no risk at all, for what, a secret? that the whole town already knew since Clark singlehandedly pushed his school bus out of a damn river?
Targe went out like a Dad, Johnathan Kent went out like a bitch.
I actually agree with the overarching points raised here. I think what made it worse for me is the fact that I had gone through the entirety of FF14's MSQ just 4 months prior to TFS, and I found myself almost begging Bungie to make the campaign make me feel something. It just fell so short of what a capstone to a saga should feel like.
Destiny has always had their best story telling in off screen dialogue and lore.
Jez really went from monotone-complainy-guy to 2-hour-dissertation guy in less than a decade. What a transformation.
Jez: lightfall wasn't good because we didn't get any explanation about what we were doing or why.
Also Jez: Why final shape have so many words.
TWO HOURS??
I’m going into this already disagreeing with you based on the title alone but oh my god this is gonna be a treat.
Alright, finally got through all of it and I gotta say that, while I personally got a lot more enjoyment out of The Final Shape campaign that you seemingly did, I'm finding it hard to genuinely disagree with most of your points. I think it's important for me to understand that my perspective - that of someone who dives a lot deeper into destiny's lore and world building -is going to be vastly different from the average (and arguably more common) player that doesn't engage with that side content, and this video gave me that perspective.
Brilliantly written and spoken throughout. I'll be here to see wherever you go next
The switchup is wild
i went in assuming i would disagree with most of the video, and ended up agreeing with almost the entire video. i'm honestly shocked at how well-rounded, well-researched, and well-written pretty much all of his arguments are. jez, i'm gonna be sad not having you around to joke through content with datto and danielle, but if we get one of these kinds of bangers each month, then i think we'll all be more than happy!
@@mrsmi1ey Same
I can’t critique the story because I spent the whole campaign dicking around with friends instead of paying attention
24 minutes in and heres the points i have:
yes we knew crow and mara were twins, that was a big part of season of the lost, and more specifically the exotic mission for Ager's Scepter.
The Iron Lord room in crow's mission is in reference to season of the risen where crow, being mentored by saladin, killed one of caiatl's advisors and Saladin stepped up to face the consequences on his behalf. Its the whole reason Saladin is on Caiatl's war council. Crow feels guilty for saladin having to pay the price for his mistakes.
Jez, I love you buddy, but you dont really have room to complain about not understanding the story when you've spent literal years avoiding learning any of the story. 😂😂
Eh, all of that is a part of seasonal content that no longer exists. While yes he did play it at the time it's still valid criticism to make since there are certainly players that DIDN'T play the game at that time that now just have to guess about the connections.
And no, watching a recap on RUclips is not valid. That stuff should be in the game.
I agree partially, but any story that's only available in seasons is stupid. How will anyone right now go and play those stories? Not knowing Crow and Mara are twins is stupid though because that's always been a main story of Destiny thing. Multiple times. Since the very beginning of Destiny 1 year 1. He's still right about The Final Shape being terribel, but that's not something new/different. We knew it would be, and Destiny has been terrible for years with its expansions not being good since Forsaken at the least. But he sure is not the best person to talk about the story when he's missing basic general knowledge.
and yet, everything we learned from seasons is gone, and no one can re-experience, which frankly gives him every right to complain, because anyone who joined after a season has missed 90% of the story up to that point.
to be completely fair, that shit is all part of seasonal content. ya know, the stuff thats been removed from the game.
Seasonal content or not, he specifically asked if prior to the diorama in crows mission if it had ever been said they were twins. The answer is yes. Whether or not the specific content is still in the game doesnt change the fact that the information was previously provided. And the saladin bit is a bit more egregious given that it was literally the key scene from season of the chosen.
While i agree that seasonal content being removed isnt conducive to ensuring that people understand the story, Jez is literally the least qualified to comment given his aggressive refusal to learn the story. He has literally spent years actively refusing to learn the story. The complaints about lack of context hold no weight coming from Jez specifically. You dont get to whine about your foot hurting, when youre the one who shot your foot.
When your complaint is, 'there is no way (outside of lore) for me to have learned this information', and is just incorrect, it would be disingenuous to not point that out. I agree that final shape made some.... confusing choices, but those 2 points specifically were given context.
People say the Dread couldn't be made in a few months. I disagree. The Grim existed as a prototype for years. They just couldn't find a reason to finish them. The Weavers and the Stasis ones are just beefed up Psions. The Harbinger and the Stasis one(I can't remember Stasis names apparently) were already made. The Husk is probably 85% Fallen captain. Its not impossible they made these changes in months.
I still don't care about the Witness, but I really did enjoyed the character side of the story.
the dread outside of tormentors and subjugators were made in the delay, its been confirmed by paul tassi
I'm not sure what gave you the impression that Glint is supposed to be a "serious" character. His name before Glint was Pork Chop. He is probably only one or two steps behind Nimbus in terms of seriousness/comic relief. Every appearance in seasonal stories and holiday events has Glint be over dramatic and childishly silly. Whether his humor actually lands is definitely debatable, but I have never once thought of him as serious.
Fun Fact: The Witness has the most music tracks in Destiny History during his boss fights
Campaign: "Ritual Site" and "Cut Away"
Raid: "Unmade"
Excision: "Stronger, Together", "Cusp of Finality" and "Make Your Own Fate"
This is kind of incorrect. Ritual site and cut away were just made as pale heart tracks and happened to be selected for Iconoclasm. Stronger Together/Cusp of Finality/Salvation’s Ruin/Make Your Own Fate is a single music system, they just split it up into 4 tracks on the soundtrack. Same goes for First Knife/Unmade. The witness has 2 music systems made specifically for it, which is just as much as, for example, Oryx had with Regicide/Last Stand. Calus at this point also has 2 massive music systems dedicated to him, although the Discipline/Desperate Measures/Tyrant Overthrown group isn’t wholly unique and only has individual portions that were made specifically for the campaign Calus fight.
@@RosaNagashiMy intention was to focus on the boss fights themselves not the individual tracks that played right before the encounters
I'm not fluent in yapanese, but I think Jez doesn't like writing done by committee
having grown up with you, It is wild to see your transformation from a young adult with childish content to a mature father figure who still plays a childish way but with a artistic twist it is wonderful to watch you grow up.
Datto would be so proud that Jez actually paid attention to dialogue after all
I think part of the issue with ghost is that the guardian never talks to him. I don't hate ghost as much as you do. I'm more indifferent.
But if bungie wanted to make Us care about ghost more, They should have our guardian Talk 2 ghost in the field instead of just ghost talking into the void.
Like how in God of war and God of war Ragnarok there's the boat conversations.
The problem is that Bungie has always intended for us, the players, to fill in the blanks and reply to Ghost while we're playing. It's supposed to be a form of immersion. It's why the customizable guardian player is mostly mute and is always referred to as "them" in lore and dialogue. And honestly, it has never worked. I remember when people CHEERED in Forsaken when the guardian spoke a few lines because of Cayde's death after being mute for years. You'd think they would have taken the hint and turn the guardian into a more active protagonist. But no, they still to this day insist in making the guardian this awkward almost autistic character that is always peeping on private conversations and doesn't speak to their ghost.
@@RobertoArboledaBro that last part just makes you sound like a fool. “I’m autistic because I don’t like to talk most times.” Like get over yourself.
@@mackncheese1683 Your comment makes no sense, but I don't care either way. I said what I said, and it's not my problem if you interpret my comment however the fuck you do. Have a good day.
@@mackncheese1683no no he has a point, the playable "Guardian" character really reeks of autism. I mean this as someone who knows many people on the spectrum. The way they choose to move about the universe and how they interact with these characters that they've been attached to for over a decade certainly has a strange tone to it.
The game is set up in a way where your character essentially needlessly searches and rummages through every different method and destination in the universe, to hear the most of every conversation/dialogue between any two given characters, stores that information, and then never speaks to anyone about any of it at all.
More so than a strong silent protagonist with intent, the way that the game is set up really gives off much more of a "this is my ADHD addiction for when I'm not shooting things" feel, especially when they CAN talk but choose not to, it really does start to feel like an ADHD/autism response of not knowing when to respond even when directly spoken to.
@@jaipadv8282 I salute you for putting into written words exactly how I feel about the character. Thank you.
1:54:48 I have been saying that for so long now, Zavala love him but he should have been the one to give his life for his friends especially after finding redemption for his failures.
Did anybody else imagine that Crow whipped out the Iron Lord axe like a Cartoon Character from Looney Tunes???
Wait monotone complainy guy who doesn’t have audio on and doesn’t read the subtitles DIDN’T like the story?
Also: i wonder how Jez thinks of Datto’s raid explains…
Word nerd, here! (You'll call me a logophile and you'll *like it.*) I liked the way the Witness spoke, I felt like they spoke precisely and with intention, I understand someone seeing the Witness as pedantic, but the characterization worked for me.
Now this is a great comment here, it’s hard to find peeps that can talk about liking the narrative without trashing Jez for one reason or another. We all got our experiences here.
Nathan Fillion is a brilliant actor, it's such a joy to watch.
8:14 that also means that bungie had the power to cook up new enemy types in about 5 months' time for previous expansions and just never did really
Its fine to use more words than necessary to describe but:
Leave technical jargon for journal entries, not main story voiced lines. (optional voiced dialogue at a base is fine)
have the extra words be funny: ex. instead of 'shoot the [targets], "use your burger hook on the bang switch to donate lead to that (insult) [target]"
Coming from the guy who has dialogue muted 98% of the time this doesn't really say much.
Some of the complaints of not understanding just stems from not listening to previous story.
I am only 20 minutes in and it's getting hard to listen to these self inflicted problems
Probably true, yes, but I think he’s just being ironic for the sake of comedy. Jez yapped for 2 hours about too many words. Textbook satire. While self-inflicted, I’m gonna err on the side of Jez delivering big brain humor😂
Yeah, luckily most of us already knew Jez was a bit late to class sometimes but its painful how some of his points come across as his lack of common sense as well as general ignorance of anything that happened in the story or lore. I could be fine with the video if it seemed more like he was poking fun at it and had any self awareness about his lack of understanding for the games story that he has been playing for a career nearly a decade, but he seems so serious about these TERRIBLE points.
Well, Jez is trying to make a point here, that a DLC story should be approachable for everyone imo. If you had to have played atleast past 2 seasons and read 2 volumes of lore content to understand what is going on in the new DLC, then it is poor story telling.
Sure, he missed on some points. And it a bit stupid on his part. But to me it seems, like he is coming from a possition of new/I haven't played in years type of player. And to me atleast, this perfectly highlights flaws in destiny's narative structure as one of the problems why it is hard to recommend this game to your friends.
After making a long break, I got back to the game with WQ release. And stayed till Final Shape. Now imagine a new player jumping straight into this right now. This whole DLC is then lost on them.
@@prototechnika yeah I should hop into WoW's latest expansion and understand everything. Oh also I skip all dialogues.
@@prototechnika I mean, TFS was marketed as the ending of a 10 year saga, I think it's expected of newer players to at least look into or play older narrative content if they truly want to understand the story and characters. It's like jumping into Halo 3, the ending of a trilogy, then complaining in the first cutscene about not getting it. Why did chief fall out the sky, why is this alien/arbiter siding with the humans, who is this blue lady that keeps flashing on my screen etc.
Ikora said it herself in Forsaken. "I have only ever been a supporting character in your story".
This video probably won't make your destiny loving fanbase happy. But this is genuinely the best kind of content you make. You weave in your own brand of humor very well, and I'd love to see you really master it. Good shit, Jez.
Lances voice will forever be Zavala, Keith sounds good but he isn’t him.
I actually don't like him as Zavala. Absolutely love him in every other role of his, but this one just isn't it
Ngl the parts that got me emotional during the campaign almost all involved Cayde, Nathan Fillion absolutely killed it in every single scene and line.
I'm pretty sure Byf - God of Lore wrote the Bible.
No one show Jez any dialogue scene from a Hoyoverse game, he'll spontaneously combust from all the words
That was my immediate thought when he started complaining about draw out exposition. I can deal with it pretty well, but it grates on me sometimes too.
destiny dialogue all things considered is typically pretty concise. a single story quest from any hoyoverse game will make his brain melt
😂
Goddess, y’all have been in this narrative too long. I’m sure you’ve played other games but this one seems to have normalized a certain kind of dialogue that people do in fact find bogged down. We can have different opinions yknow?
@@WitchofHeart13 no one said you couldn't have a different opinion my guy. My joke was just about there being an even worse example of dialogue bloat out there in gaming
A 2 hour video means jeb can go mia for like 3 months and get away with it
I have to say, ever since the Taken King in D1 I have absolutely loathed all of Ghost's dialogue. I know the writing had some cringe lord lines for Dinklage, but he seemed to at least deliver everything with a better tone than what we ever gotten since.
Similarly Glint's lines have been borderline for me too - Sagira seems like the only Ghost that has not made me want to slap myself in the face repeatedly.
Kay: We'll use pulsar level five, with a subsonic implosion factor.
Jay: What?
Kay: Just shoot the damn thing!
Jez watching Men In Black: Yes, that is exactly what I'm talking about!
Everybody gangsta till Jez starts talking about story and dialogue.
Looks that way now
Unpopular opinion? I really enjoy ghosts humor. I think its tacky on purpose and i find it cute-
Its like when Sagira pointed out our Ghost was one of the uppity ones. He has a personality. its largely straightlaced, but its *his* and he owns it.
@@Xenmaru00 Exactly, and its totally fair not to like that personality, but I definitely enjoy ghost. (Always think back to the time he tried to do drifters voice, it was so stupid but I loved it XD)
Unpopular opinion in response? I think not only is ghost sometimes funny, but cayde-6 is sometimes not. I think the "i like crows hair cut" was short enough to be totally fine. Its not hilarious, but its not trying to be, its just a nice line tacked on. But Caydes "Oh noo crow, why did you kill the handsomest hunter in all of sol" was so fucking cringe, it breaks one of Jez' own tenants of "trying too hard".
Cayde is overall still funnier than ghost imo, but i personally find ghost (and crow) more likeable than most people do, and i think while Cayde is very very likeable, he does have some unfunny moments that it feels like people are afraid to point out.
I was in your stream as you played through Final Shape and couldn’t believe how bad the writting and gameplay was. Between the old mechanics and puzzles/symbols busy work and lack of any original engagements all that’s left is a pretty lifeless Paleheart and cutscenes to praise. One of the biggest shams put forth by the remaining Destiny community is “how good” this dlc was…when playtime for this expansion tells you all you need to know. I love your cyberpunk breakdown and look forward to you tackling others games…maybe…stalker 2 😸
A proper feature length vid that isnt just compiled clips from the year? Having a kid really did change our boy
Edit: 40:40 I could agree if Keith had been Zavala the whole time, but Lance's voice is so intertwined with Destiny at this point that I don't think a separation can occur.
Ok, I may not agree with you for some points but I do agree with "buffs our something by something percentage." It is absolutely insane that everything in this game that buffs regen or damage doesn't have a percentage and duration in paremthesis next to it, ans very annoying. Also I personally agree, I want abilities to suppliment gunplay, not be the gun
I guess I'll just talk about this while I watch, I too hated "I like Crow's haircut" from Ghost
Everybody with the light can kinda feel like they're in the Traveller, that's why Cayde said that he knows, especially because he feels more like a Ghost does now
I also agree, there is wayyyyy too much lore in this game that really should be told to us in some way
Ok, Jez, if you listened to the seasons you play, then you would know they were twins. Also, media introducing you to new words that more concisely says a phrase in one word is not a bad thing
A lot of the cringe comments by Ghost would be fixed if they just let our Guardian talk. He could have said something like "I think we need some better boots" or something like that. Then maybe something like Ghost asking how bad it is, and we say "barely a crack" but apprehensively, like we're sparing Ghost how bad it is
Times like Zavala breaking in Witch Queen highlight how good Lance Reddick was, along with season of the Haunted. Lance was phenomenal for Zavala, and Keith David is so different that it doesn't feel like Zavala. I like Keith, but it'll never be the same
Yes for the love of god Guardian speak, the campfire cutscene was so awkward
I 100% agree, the section with all of us completely ignoring Zavala until at some point we just decide to investigate what he wanted is fucking insane, it's my least favorite part of this campaign
Also again, Crow got the axe in a season from Saladin
Great video. You are surprisingly good at narrative analysis/criticism Jez.
Your point about how we should have fought Zavala reminded me of one of the trailers leading up to TFS release where they showed part of the cutscene of the abomination boss you fight in the Wild Card mission and it was right after or shortly after Ikora’s line “Zavala please don’t do this” and I remember thinking it would be CRAZY if Zavala gave in to the Witness and was mutated into an abomination that we had to fight
I can't wait for the day he plays kingdom hearts and reviews the plot of that series.....
It’ll be a magical day that, we are always recruiting new members to witness our fave mess.
It's gonna be great when he's actively avoiding the story the whole time before the review too...
Bungie: Cooks up arguably the best dlc in the entire destiny saga.
Jez: hold my bowl of unseasoned mince…
Y'know, despite how good the DLC is in relation to previous DLC, it's still really sad how it's so weighed down by incredibly basic and idiotic design choices. It feels like Bungie could have made something truly amazing, not just in terms of Destiny 2 but in gaming in general. But then they throw in so many curveballs, odd moments and detrimental design choices that it really just feels like wasted potential.
“If a game has too much word vomit…. Then less talky-talk means more fun-have.”
Brother, this video took a longer runtime than The Banshees of Inisherin to say “Listening to other people talk sucks because lore doesn’t matter to me” 😂
Also: big fan; don’t ever change.
My biggest gripe with the final shape campaign was that the witness spent so little time trying to recruit the guardian, y'know the literal godkiller (and even says this in the trailer with 0 elaboration in the campaign), and instead spends 100% of its time distracting our little buddies and then when we finally reach the final mission it starts swooning over us
i feel like that was a case of him trying to slowly "win" us by depriving us of our seeming source of strength: our allies. Remember the analogies, "the safe space lined by spears". The Witness, to me at least, seemed like he was attempting to remove not so much the spears but what allowed those spears to be in place.
If we were Humanity's Spear, and our strength was the many hands that held us, then by removing those hands, he could defeat/convert us.
Because flat-out destroying us entirely in one go, was never his goal.
tell me the commentors didnt watch past minute one without... you get the idea.
title aside this is actually a pretty good objective review of not only final shape's weaknesses in story telling, but it's strengths as well. This isn't a video bashing the expansion, but one explaining where it was weak, where it was strong, and what theoretically could've been improved while providing examples and definitions. Very well done Jez, extremely worth watching all the way through, and i really enjoy this format of video and will be waiting for more!
I never would have expected this much Zavala glazing out of Jez. I get it that Zavala is correct to seek answers from the Darkness because the Light doesn't have any to give. But Jez saying that Targe's sacrifice meant nothing. Jez...literally what would have happened to Zavala if Targe or anyone else was not there to bail Zavala out. You claim he's a military commander and he knows what he's doing, but Zavala literally had no plan on what to do AFTER he gave himself to Darkness. Such a brilliant move, getting the crucial information to save the universe...only to die holding the crucial information to save the universe before you can tell anyone.
The whole point of Ikora and Zavala's bickering is that they're now on opposite ends of the argument that they had in Forsaken. Ikora is thinking too conservatively because she can't bear to lose anyone else, and Zavala is willing to completely throw his life away on the HUNCH that he can get the answers he seeks without a plan or safety net for if (read as WHEN) things go south. They both wear these flaws so openly because they need to learn to trust one another again with the help of Cayde. Ikora needs to trust in the unknown quantities and Zavala needs to trust his teammates to have his back. The whole point of their character arc is that they keep arguing past one another and it's not until Zavala gets the information at the cost of Targe's life that they can finally coalesce and work together. Zavala has lost someone else he knows he can never get back and so he has to rely on who he has left. Ikora realizes that Zavala DID have the right idea and that maybe if she had trusted him, she could have been there to help him plan things out in order to spare any undue suffering or death.
Like I get that this video is largely for comedy while also still being a critique of the story, but Jez is also just wildly misinterpreting many of the major plot and character beats to the point of utter frustration.
"Oh, he's just going to complain a bunch, it wasn't that- ...shoot, the boi has a point, multiple in fact"
I get that it's fun to clown on jez for not paying attention despite him playing a lot of the content, but if you take this video from the perspective of a brand new player, this game has and will always be terrible for new players at giving any kind of context. Watching byfs 10 hour story so far video should not be required to play and understand what is going on in this game.
Yeah. Setting aside the comical format of the video, he raised a lot of valid points. To me the entire campaign is, while still ranging from "why is this even in the game" to "this makes me cry", a giant heap of missed potential. It had potential to be a fanastic narrative experience, not just in terms of Destiny but in terms of gaming in general, but Bungie is obsessed with so many weird and detrimental design choices it just left me feeling ... sad.
"I didn't like it"
isn't that because you just don't pay attention to the story at all lmao
he is zipping around the screen to much
great for attention, playing a game of "where is the hot guy" while listening to a yapping session makes me hard as always
I find it utterly ironic you said one of the things you dislike is too many words after saying you were going to complain for 2 hours
When you say Destiny has a talking problem, I feel you're projecting waaaay too hard about Datto's dungeon & raid guides.
Bro spelled kackis wrong. To this day I will still bring up kackis vs datto’s xenophage guide. Like 30+ minutes vs 13.
banger video jez! personally being invested for so long in Destiny, this ending made me feel so many emotions, mostly good. And i loved what they did. BUT i can still see and am not ignorant to the fact that you make some very good points. well done dude.
also, you not being invested in the story like some of us makes sense why this vid is what it is. people need to lighten up🤣
On the point of the Guardian showing affection for the ghost, it is MY opinion that it is not. Back in the red war, when we lose our light and the ghost falls, our guardian pulls them closer in what is likely an attempt to protect them.
And I don't remember it too well, but at the end of beyond light when the ghost is frozen by Eramis?
I actually read both of those instances as a practical decision from the Guardian to protect what is literally keeping them in the narrative. In both instances Ghost is rendered helpless with a major enemy literally right next to them, and we don't want to pull a Cayde where we have our most important vulnerability exposed to the enemy. Nowhere in the entire game's lifespan has there been explicit "affection" from the bystander that is the player Guardian. Remember Thin Line's lore tab?
If it's true the dread were made in 5 months I have even less sympathy for how the game has gone since forsaken.
They have the ability and shoot themselves in the foot with a short development time.
2 hours? Jez guaranteed to spend 99% of this destroying the Ghost.
2:19 yes jez, the game does has a word vomit problem. Yes jez, we know you've had dialogue off since forsaken (or before). I recently turned mine off. Yes jez, I came here from your most recent video and am enjoying this one so far. Yes jez, this comment is way too long for your newly smoothed dad brain to read.
How did he spent X many hours writing this video only to put together a surface level "I hate ghost, cayde good" critique of the final shape? How did we go from his lightfall critique video to this? I only blame myself for expecting an actually good critique considering this guy can't stand a single datto explaination. Never cook again. PS: I still love your videos Jez, just not this one.
Great video, really hoped that you’d talk about how ridiculous it is that tinnitus is a debuf from the screechers. I couldn’t take this enemy type seriously after the tinnitus debut.
13:44 That's Datto btw 😭
Green screen rants give monotone complainey guy vibes and I love it. That's how I found you and I'll stick with you no matter what you cover. Bring Danielle and datto along kicking and screaming too lol
Jez not playing Season of the Risen so he doesn't know that Saladin was Crow's mentor is very funny
I haven't watched much of it yet, but I wanted to address some comments I saw:
Saying "but the story that gives you the context for *blank* happening isn't in the game anymore because the season was removed" doesn't mean the story was bad, it just means that the handling of content and story preservation mechanics are severely lacking and always have been. If you were willing, watching Byf's full history video before playing the final shape would fix that issue, but you shouldn't need to at all.
Coming from someone who knows almost everything there is to know about the story, I loved it, but I totally understand that missing even a single mission or cutscene that was removed 2 years ago and therefore feeling completely lost is not cool.
I agree, but Jez gets so much less credit for it when for the past two years he has made a point of making sure everybody knows he is going out of his way to get zero story engagement or even any dialogue whenever he plays the game, and that he was in fact there for these crucial story missions.
When you're reading ghost lines the voice in my head is Peter dinky
That's a lot of words used to complain about a lot of words
Glint: "If I can't get to him, I can't rez him!"
Meanwhile, Savathun sitting in Ikora's freezer for 2 years: "Something something, Bungie turned me into a Deus Ex Machnina."
Me when the witness has more advanced techniques than the tower
I love when Jez goes all out on a video. The editing is phenomenal
This is the last thing I expected from Jez of all people but I'm up to see how much he payed attention when rewatching all cutscenes on RUclips.
On a more serious note if this has to due with the "finality" of the story if you guys cant handle a main story getting an end then thats on you. Destiny can continue without the main story they built up for the final shape because it's not like all the story in destiny was solely building up for the final shape and I definitely like the stories outside of the final shape.
Trying to tell the difference between him saying “law” and “lore” was interesting😂
I can’t imagine what Jez would say about Genshin Impact. If you think Destiny 2 doesn’t respect your time with dialogue, oh boy, you ain’t seen nothing yet 😂
Good thing we’re talking about Destiny and not a gatcha game full of anime specific tropes.
Destiny is a fantasy game
Name one fantasy game that speaks the english that we speak now
I’m 2:26 into this video and already I can see Jez just wants Destiny to be WoW. The quest step updates, the success sound effect, simple objectives explained simply. Jez, if you want to play an MMO, just go play an MMO. No hate, but like Destiny has always been a series that is very flowery with its language most of the time and is pretty rich with story. The gameplay is I’m sure what you like it for but there hasn’t been one expansion in Destiny 2 that hasn’t used this type of flowery expository language. Beyond Light? Yup. Lightfall? Yup. Witch Queen? Yup. Warmind? Yup. Curse of Osiris? Yup. Forsaken? The entire time we’re in the Dreaming City our ghost is talking like this. If you want a simple quest system with simple objectives and simple instructions, I highly recommend Throne and Liberty. Newest MMO that came out I believe. But you like Destiny for the gameplay, so I know you won’t. Again, no hate, I just can already tell I’m going to fundamentally disagree with this video.
Edit: we’ll he just addressed it, but I have to say, the dialogue isn’t really careless. They’re having the characters explain it like so that it doesn’t feel superficial. I can guarantee that if the ghost just said “Guardian shoot the ball.” Everyone, including yourself, would find it annoyingly simple. It would feel like an insult to our intelligence. It would also make the entire expansion feel like it wasn’t well planned, wasn’t fully finished, and wouldn’t make the expansion any good at all. Same goes for every other expansion in the past. I do agree about the Dread intro being pretty lackluster. These are the Witnesses minions, darkness in the form of enemies. Why are they just… there?
Because the Dread were thrown in last minute. He addresses this as well.
Although I don't exactly disagree, you telling Jez to go play an MMO like Bungie doesn't develop Destiny 2 as an MMO is pretty funny to me, you're practically telling him to go play an MMO by not playing this MMO
Bungo has said several times that the design was aiming towards being an mmo.
@@soupgirl1871destiny isnt an mmo lmao
@@WitchofHeart13 aiming towards it and actually being one arent the same
Looking forward to more of these types of videos, even if i dont agree with all the points you made, I get where youre coming from. Great analysis Jez
I always hate when Jez gets super intellectual and in-depth about these stories....because it opens my eyes and I realize I'm just an easy-to-please, goofy little goblin who just loves shooting pew-pews and throwing space magic
You're allowed to be. It's a video game 😂
Started with a feeling "omg now Jez making a rant video as he stopped playing D2" ended with a feeling "one of the best videos Jez has ever done about D2"
It is really sad that the game brings back Savathun right a few month later we killed her and they only bring back Cayde 6 years later for a campaign length of participation. I feel there is someone at the upper management that has a bad history with Cayde-6 or one of his voice actors.
Excellent job here Jez!
Thank you for all the funny times and smiles you put on my face while I watch these videos at the office for all these years!
Jez I've enjoyed your content for a really long time but story analysis is really not your strong suit. You've reveled in a reputation of "no thinky think, only shooty shoot" and to try and intellectually put down the writing and story telling of Destiny (while valid criticisms can be made) seems very ingenuine and like you straight up don't know what you're talking about. You do raise some salient points about bloat and dialogue but these aren't original points, you don't really bring up anything that hasn't already been said. If you're done with Destiny then that's sad but okay, it just comes across poorly when you have proudly boasted that you have dialogue volume muted and then claim that the game isn't communicating well. Hope you come back with something different next time (this is all just my opinion before commentors tear me apart)
Should make a video about where you think jez I wrong.
In my play thru the part where Ghost talks about the crack in his shell was hilarious cuz im using the boaty mcboatface shell with his cute little sailor hat
nah L take jeb
I laughed too hard at the moon joke
I get that a lot of people are nit picking what Jez has to say because he isn't the biggest lore guy and some things are explained to us, but this entire review seems very fair from a different kind of perspective. He brought up a lot of very valid criticisms about the narrative (Targe for one) and also praised the moments where the narrative succeeded. It seems like many of the people making these salty comments didn't finish watching the entire thing...
@@hithere5553 that just proves that the comments are partially based in bad faith then.
@@hithere5553 He's reviewing and critiquing the narrative, it's allowed to have a lot of explanation. Exposition dumps are a valid criticism for many types of stories, Destiny is definitely no stranger to that.
He definitely has some valid points regarding the narrative of TFS itself, but even with Byf throwing the textbook at him he misses too much with regard to context leading into the narrative for me to even want to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding the mistakes that would have been easier to avoid when he's historically done his best not to engage with the story.
45:00 this is basically my entire issue with the game. the entire game felt like we were mostly just doing filler stories in between when the big bad shows up and then tries to kill everyone vs actually doing it. bungie do not know how to write a fucking story and i hate being told "we'll get to it......." and then it never really happens.
22 minutes in and I get the feeling Jez just hates not having things explicitly explained to him slowly in game and hates ghosts inexplicably. If your only point of complaint that you bring up over and over is "I don't understand because too many word". Like...I don't want the ghost to literally just say "shoot that ball", games and fictional media can dress up simple concepts in fancy words and jargon all the time. Play literally like any DnD campaign or a futuristic game like cyberpunk 2077 and they do this. It doesn't hit a specific nerve with me like it does with Jez for some reason. Also why the witness uses flowerly language might be because...he's made up of like 5000 people? I personally like the way the witness talks, it gives just the slightest tugging at the corner of the players mind that they might be seeing things on a "higher level" than us and that maybe they know something we don't.
"Like...I don't want the ghost to literally just say "shoot that ball""
I mean, neither does he. He is simply pointing out how simple directives are explained in an overly convoluted and/or unnecessary manner. There's a difference between giving appropriate and concise directions that suit the tone, and long winded explanations that exist solely for the sake of explaining things.
While the Witness using "flowery" language certainly could help it appear to be a higher being of sorts, in the end it's gonna have little effect if it leads to players not being able to comprehend what they're talking about.
Situations that use language unknown to the player can certainly be used well, it's not an inherently bad thing. But that method relies on the game/scene to give the player different context clues. Using that method when the entire purpose of a scene is to explain something would be like me wanting to show you a beautiful scenery while also asking you to wear a blindfold.
this is the first time I've heard Keith David Zavala and i am instantly on board. i loved Lance Reddick and am really sad he's passed, but omg Keith David is perfect
I think this is an incredibly well thought out video with meaningful input and criticisms of what was supposed to be the final big bang for this whole saga. I'm glad I experienced it through this tbh.
1:05:11 my personal theory is that early versions of the story had Zavala sacrificing himself but when we lost Lance they decided to change it but the narrative was too strong for them to drop it completely
Jez mate.. i love you and you humour but "less talky - talk equals more fun have" and "shoot ball" you really just hate world building dont you? you take playing a game literally and dont want to engage with the world and fantasy lol.
If we watch the video then we can see examples of the preferred dialogue later when he talks about Cayde’s cadence lol. The persona seems to be difficult to get around but that’s partially due to people coming into this with a serious mood of defending the story sadly, we can all exist in our own perspectives equally.
@@WitchofHeart13 We can acknowledge that one's perspective is also jilted.