1:03:52 to teach my coworkers the power of frog. I gave all of my coworkers a list of decks (22) to pick and see what top decks make it to the top 8 of eternal weekend and whoever picks the top 8 with the most accurate decks that actually makes it wins a Dunkin Donuts gift card. Every person has been asking me “Why is this Froginator deck so good? Why is this Psychic Frog so good I thought your game was about scary monsters and dragons not frogs?” Boy howdy. Perfect showcase
Good Games! I was your opponent in G1. You mention at 15:07 that you were wondering why I didn't vial the first nomad. The reason was that if you were to cast fatal push on cephalid in response to my nomad I could vial the 2nd one in.
If frog gets banned, I'd definitely change my list to be 4 curie 2 thrull and fit in the 4th dreadnought but as seen in this league, frog is just too good lol
Thrull is generally a pretty mediocre card outside of Dreadnought. I think it has less to do with Frog specifically and more with standalone card quality on the whole.
@alecwoodard9464 That's fair. Interesting counterpoint, cutting White also means losing StP. But Fatal Push is seeing play at an all-time high due to being a clean answer to enemy frogs.
@@derekcline950 Certainly, a large part of the “cut white for better cards” calculation is how much stock Fatal Push has right now, with the metagame being such that if your opponent has a thing that can’t get pushed it’s either exactly Troll or you’re dead already in any deck this close to 9-5 Magic the Gathering. Either way, I would not be surprised to see Oculus/Curie builds continue to be a good option on the classic consistency/power balance. Losing Nulldrifter is a huge power level hit especially once Reanimator is tapped down, but with a build like this you can just have good threats instead of having to assemble A/B for an overstatted creature every time you want to table something.
I've been playing a somewhat similar lists except I'm running 4 barrowgoyfs, 3 scroll of fates, lotus petals, and ancient tomb to power those 2 out turn 1. So far my record is positive and the deck feels great.
21:52 super interesting line that didnt come up, because of the way fatal push is worded, the mana value check is part of resolution not targeting, so you can target something >2 mana (in this case nadu) and then daze your own spell returning an island, triggering revolt, and pay for the daze to kill something thats 3 or 4 mana
While you have a point, Shoot never kills Broadside Bombardiers and there are circumstances in which Bombardiers making one attack isn't lights out but two will be. The bigger problem I see is that sorceries have inflexible timing and I don't know how acceptable that is in a field full of Psychic Frog tempo decks where windows to successfully kill things can be very narrow. Winner to me seems very clearly like Go for the Throat, seeing as none of the top decks play artifact creatures besides Urza's Saga tokens.
@drpibisback7680 i chose fell, mostly to test it, not sure if it would be in further iterations of my list. Part of it was that I had drawn GftT in an earlier league against a live painters servant and felt pretty upset to get comboed out lol, so it was a bit a tilt induced inclusion lol
@drpibisback7680 I usually just play one of each Shoot the Sheriff and Go for the Throat. Not sure if it's the most optimal but it isn't the least haha
My name Jorge Chica and i have been playing more than 3 years dreadnought nonstop, and also i have been playing curie since she came out. I also got really good results with the deck... i qualify to european legacy masters and also got a top 10 in 4seassons tournament. I like to call it Curienought. This list of harain is a ub version of mine. I preffer to play esper curienought.
I like play urza's Saga as a tutor. Is not the best fit with dress Down, but now we a lot of trigger solutions with doorkeeper, consign, stifle and curie. I cut nulldrifter and play more tempo style. When Bowmasters and frog gets banned, i think Curie will Shine a lot.
@@juanjosequevedodominguez2910 why do you think Bowmasters will get banned? It doesn't seem like a problem at all, and a lot of the tempo decks have stopped playing it entirely in favor of frog
Round 1 game 2 was a really cool game, I think there were some small choices that could have had a big impact on how the game played out, and ultimately could've gotten you the win. Warning: there's a lot to talk about for this game! 15:09 the opponent casting nomad when they have a vial on one telegraphs "I HAVE ANOTHER NOMAD" in neon letters. I don't think there's any reason to disbelieve the opponent, so IMO your choices are to either let this one resolve and fight over the combo or fight over this one and all future vial activations. I think battling every vial activation for the rest of the game when you don't have a wincon in sight is a losing battle, so IMO you should let this resolve, and then you'd have force for the cabal therapy, at which point they might just go for it and lose on the spot. Alternatively, you could let therapy resolve, which lets you keep at least one more card for brainstorm. 16:32 I don't like putting the second dress down back with brainstorm. I don't think it is just hindsight bias to say that it's better than frog. With a wall of 1/1's, you're not going to be attacking with the frog, so its only use is on defence. But you have an active tamiyo planeswalker, so 1/1 beatdown just isn't an issue for you. From this spot, it looks like your goal is to survive until tamiyo ultimate and dress down is at least slightly helpful towards that goal. 18:01 I like just drawing from clue instead of edicting here, but that's because... 18:07 I really don't like getting fatal push back here. You have access to plus -> ultimate over the course of two turns, with stifle + dress down keeping you alive to get to next turn. The ultimate should just win, untapping with 5 mana and 25 cards in hand seems very capable of preventing nomads + nadu thanks to the density of interaction in your deck (thoughtseize, push, force, daze, and fell). It turns out they have a force, and force to protect the nomad, but I think that if you draw + ponder, you're likely to hit another piece of relevant interaction (3 thoughtseize, 3 push, 1 fell, 3 force, and possibly the 2 daze are helpful if their interaction is orim's chant), and even if you miss, dress down will be enough to bridge the gap into tamiyo ultimate. The game might get weird from there, since they'd have the rest of their library versus half of yours, but the overall number of cards is in your favor. I'd have to go through the GY to know exactly how many relevant cards they have left. 19:40 I like taking force of will over orim's chant, and I don't think it's hindsight to prefer that. Without pondering, you can survive to get another turn solely on the back of dress down even playing into orim's chant, you just have to dress down in your own end step. You also have daze in hand, so you're protected from chant this turn and a second daze would let you beat the chant next turn provided they miss on a land (but not force in either case). Obviously, this hurts even worse when you ponder into a removal spell. 20:19 I like stifling the vial trigger. Yeah, you lose if they force, but I don't see a route to victory that involves letting them nadu when you're low on resources. For all they know you have a push that they're even more in need of forcing, and the opponent has seemed very willing to let you stifle vial so far. Again, very interesting game. Please do let me know if my analysis is missing anything, the lines in this game were very complex.
4:50 how is Internal Grasp in comparison to this cards? It looks anything at instant speed at the cost of 2 life. I've also personally liked to play a mix of the 2 mana black removal spells. It generally feels like there aren't many decks against which one will be entirely dead, so even if you draw Go for the Throat against an artifact deck, you can maybe hit an Emry or something, but having multiples means there won't ever be a creature that you have no way to kill. Since life loss generally only feels like a big cost when you have too much of it (needing to tap ancient tomb every turn for example), only playing one or two Internal Grasps also generally feels easier than a full playset.
Is the lack of additional cost worth playing fell over bitter triumph? Modern has a much more aggressive timeline and more of a cost on life with shocks but in legacy the 3 life for non time or type limited removal seems very playable, and in this deck discarding a card might help you pay the exile 6 for an oculus? Just wondering if you have thoughts on bitter triumph over the other removal spells you mentioned basically lol
Bitter Triumph is a two-for-one if you discard, an undesirable trade, and if you mostly pay the 3 life then you can just play Infernal Grasp, which only costs 2 life when Legacy games can be very tight on life points.
Hi bosh!! Loving your vids It's in your plans uploading some duel Commander runs? Would love to check your insight in some decks like the esper reanimator commanded by aminatou
R1G2 I feel like you broke your own rule about being in a control position: force them to make the first move. Tamiyo had their board under control, and they were going to be forced to eventually put Nadu into an unfavorable position for them.
Curie is spicy, I'm curious to see how it goes. I really don't expect it to be good, the activated ability requires you to have another creature out and removes it from play. It reminds me of playing an aura enchantment and how easy it is to get blown out. But I'm definitely willing to be shown wrong
So in the deck teck about 2 mana destroy spells Does power word kill really miss that much? I’m not entirely into the metagame there, Also in decks with a lot of non basics or heavy black you might be able to get away with victim of the night, but again, I don’t remebr the creature types in the metagame
@@jonwilson5711 aspiring spike uses atraxa's angel type line to sneak her in with...... kaalia of the vast in modern. It's something special to be sure.
How many do you want to play, what problem is it solving that the deck currently has, what cards in the deck as presented are you cutting for them, and what new problems does cutting those cards create? Usually the answer to "why not (card)?" is "I'm already playing 60 I'm happy with."
🤢🤮too many random 3 ofs I cant even take the decklist seriously But like really, if someone is squeezing cards in their deck by trimming playsets, then just cut playsets, not trim psychic frog and ponder If your running 1, 2 or 3 of a card, then there has to be a good reason why, maybe you dont need one in your opening hand, maybe its to smooth curve consideration, maybe its a tutor target, maybe its legendary, maybe they suck in multipls, maybe its to hedge against certain matchups but bad in others. But trimming for the sake if trimming makes me sick
1:03:52 to teach my coworkers the power of frog.
I gave all of my coworkers a list of decks (22) to pick and see what top decks make it to the top 8 of eternal weekend and whoever picks the top 8 with the most accurate decks that actually makes it wins a Dunkin Donuts gift card. Every person has been asking me “Why is this Froginator deck so good? Why is this Psychic Frog so good I thought your game was about scary monsters and dragons not frogs?”
Boy howdy. Perfect showcase
How to play "Legacy Dimir Abhorrent Oculus Dreadnought Tempo": Cast Psychic Frog, attack with Psychic Frog.
That's how to play and "legacy ___" right now if it's blue and black
Good Games! I was your opponent in G1. You mention at 15:07 that you were wondering why I didn't vial the first nomad. The reason was that if you were to cast fatal push on cephalid in response to my nomad I could vial the 2nd one in.
Nice. Sweet play!
Nice line.
After I saw the zillionth frog and tamiyo I forgot this was a dreadnaught deck
Half the power of Oculus seems to be cutting white Doorkeeper Thrall to fit Frog... I'm excited for the next ban cycle
If frog gets banned, I'd definitely change my list to be 4 curie 2 thrull and fit in the 4th dreadnought but as seen in this league, frog is just too good lol
Thrull is generally a pretty mediocre card outside of Dreadnought. I think it has less to do with Frog specifically and more with standalone card quality on the whole.
@alecwoodard9464 That's fair. Interesting counterpoint, cutting White also means losing StP. But Fatal Push is seeing play at an all-time high due to being a clean answer to enemy frogs.
@@derekcline950 Certainly, a large part of the “cut white for better cards” calculation is how much stock Fatal Push has right now, with the metagame being such that if your opponent has a thing that can’t get pushed it’s either exactly Troll or you’re dead already in any deck this close to 9-5 Magic the Gathering. Either way, I would not be surprised to see Oculus/Curie builds continue to be a good option on the classic consistency/power balance.
Losing Nulldrifter is a huge power level hit especially once Reanimator is tapped down, but with a build like this you can just have good threats instead of having to assemble A/B for an overstatted creature every time you want to table something.
"I'm something of a daze deck myself" as you daze the daze 😂
"What if they bloodrushed Rubblebelt Makka here" caught me WAY off guard, haven't thought about that card in a decade 😂
Why you gotta remind me that RTR block came out 11 years ago? 😂 I remember drafting it like it was yesterday
93 must have dropped a rack on all these dono lists!
Op round 1 played super well. That was very cool to watch! (Primarily a modern player here who's dabbled in legacy)
I've been playing a somewhat similar lists except I'm running 4 barrowgoyfs, 3 scroll of fates, lotus petals, and ancient tomb to power those 2 out turn 1. So far my record is positive and the deck feels great.
20:30 flooded strand doesn't highlight the basic swamp in the list. don't know how much this would have changed, but polly delta did have a fetchable
Post Frog meta seems sweeter ever day lol
21:52 super interesting line that didnt come up, because of the way fatal push is worded, the mana value check is part of resolution not targeting, so you can target something >2 mana (in this case nadu) and then daze your own spell returning an island, triggering revolt, and pay for the daze to kill something thats 3 or 4 mana
I love when people play Fell over Shoot the Sheriff. You know, to kill Bombardiers.. after it attacked, and threw like 6 damage at your face 😂
While you have a point, Shoot never kills Broadside Bombardiers and there are circumstances in which Bombardiers making one attack isn't lights out but two will be. The bigger problem I see is that sorceries have inflexible timing and I don't know how acceptable that is in a field full of Psychic Frog tempo decks where windows to successfully kill things can be very narrow. Winner to me seems very clearly like Go for the Throat, seeing as none of the top decks play artifact creatures besides Urza's Saga tokens.
@drpibisback7680 i chose fell, mostly to test it, not sure if it would be in further iterations of my list. Part of it was that I had drawn GftT in an earlier league against a live painters servant and felt pretty upset to get comboed out lol, so it was a bit a tilt induced inclusion lol
@drpibisback7680 I usually just play one of each Shoot the Sheriff and Go for the Throat. Not sure if it's the most optimal but it isn't the least haha
What about Infernal Grasp?
Bitter triumph is probably just better at that point due to tamiyo
@@DankAudioStash24
My name Jorge Chica and i have been playing more than 3 years dreadnought nonstop, and also i have been playing curie since she came out. I also got really good results with the deck... i qualify to european legacy masters and also got a top 10 in 4seassons tournament. I like to call it Curienought. This list of harain is a ub version of mine. I preffer to play esper curienought.
Congratulations on the excellent finish! This is a cool list, and looks really fun.
I like play urza's Saga as a tutor. Is not the best fit with dress Down, but now we a lot of trigger solutions with doorkeeper, consign, stifle and curie. I cut nulldrifter and play more tempo style. When Bowmasters and frog gets banned, i think Curie will Shine a lot.
@@juanjosequevedodominguez2910 yes, i have just upload a video talking about a saga/curie version
@@alecwoodard9464 thank you very much!!
@@juanjosequevedodominguez2910 why do you think Bowmasters will get banned? It doesn't seem like a problem at all, and a lot of the tempo decks have stopped playing it entirely in favor of frog
Round 1 game 2 was a really cool game, I think there were some small choices that could have had a big impact on how the game played out, and ultimately could've gotten you the win. Warning: there's a lot to talk about for this game!
15:09 the opponent casting nomad when they have a vial on one telegraphs "I HAVE ANOTHER NOMAD" in neon letters. I don't think there's any reason to disbelieve the opponent, so IMO your choices are to either let this one resolve and fight over the combo or fight over this one and all future vial activations. I think battling every vial activation for the rest of the game when you don't have a wincon in sight is a losing battle, so IMO you should let this resolve, and then you'd have force for the cabal therapy, at which point they might just go for it and lose on the spot. Alternatively, you could let therapy resolve, which lets you keep at least one more card for brainstorm.
16:32 I don't like putting the second dress down back with brainstorm. I don't think it is just hindsight bias to say that it's better than frog. With a wall of 1/1's, you're not going to be attacking with the frog, so its only use is on defence. But you have an active tamiyo planeswalker, so 1/1 beatdown just isn't an issue for you. From this spot, it looks like your goal is to survive until tamiyo ultimate and dress down is at least slightly helpful towards that goal.
18:01 I like just drawing from clue instead of edicting here, but that's because...
18:07 I really don't like getting fatal push back here. You have access to plus -> ultimate over the course of two turns, with stifle + dress down keeping you alive to get to next turn. The ultimate should just win, untapping with 5 mana and 25 cards in hand seems very capable of preventing nomads + nadu thanks to the density of interaction in your deck (thoughtseize, push, force, daze, and fell). It turns out they have a force, and force to protect the nomad, but I think that if you draw + ponder, you're likely to hit another piece of relevant interaction (3 thoughtseize, 3 push, 1 fell, 3 force, and possibly the 2 daze are helpful if their interaction is orim's chant), and even if you miss, dress down will be enough to bridge the gap into tamiyo ultimate. The game might get weird from there, since they'd have the rest of their library versus half of yours, but the overall number of cards is in your favor. I'd have to go through the GY to know exactly how many relevant cards they have left.
19:40 I like taking force of will over orim's chant, and I don't think it's hindsight to prefer that. Without pondering, you can survive to get another turn solely on the back of dress down even playing into orim's chant, you just have to dress down in your own end step. You also have daze in hand, so you're protected from chant this turn and a second daze would let you beat the chant next turn provided they miss on a land (but not force in either case). Obviously, this hurts even worse when you ponder into a removal spell.
20:19 I like stifling the vial trigger. Yeah, you lose if they force, but I don't see a route to victory that involves letting them nadu when you're low on resources. For all they know you have a push that they're even more in need of forcing, and the opponent has seemed very willing to let you stifle vial so far.
Again, very interesting game. Please do let me know if my analysis is missing anything, the lines in this game were very complex.
I hope the round one opponent sees you accusing them of being an alcoholic.
Been waiting for this one, excited to see how oculus preforms in legacy
Dreadnaught league from Bosh n Roll?? Never clicked so fast lol
Occulus is one of my favorite recent cards. Its been super fun to reanimate it in standard and I love seeing it show up in Legacy now.
Its so cool and it makes Manifest dread super relevant, which is also fun
19:37 So you're telling me there's a Chant
This league taught me to counter the bauble
Two 90+ minutes videos in a row!? He'll yes
4:50 how is Internal Grasp in comparison to this cards? It looks anything at instant speed at the cost of 2 life.
I've also personally liked to play a mix of the 2 mana black removal spells. It generally feels like there aren't many decks against which one will be entirely dead, so even if you draw Go for the Throat against an artifact deck, you can maybe hit an Emry or something, but having multiples means there won't ever be a creature that you have no way to kill. Since life loss generally only feels like a big cost when you have too much of it (needing to tap ancient tomb every turn for example), only playing one or two Internal Grasps also generally feels easier than a full playset.
Is the lack of additional cost worth playing fell over bitter triumph? Modern has a much more aggressive timeline and more of a cost on life with shocks but in legacy the 3 life for non time or type limited removal seems very playable, and in this deck discarding a card might help you pay the exile 6 for an oculus? Just wondering if you have thoughts on bitter triumph over the other removal spells you mentioned basically lol
Bitter Triumph is a two-for-one if you discard, an undesirable trade, and if you mostly pay the 3 life then you can just play Infernal Grasp, which only costs 2 life when Legacy games can be very tight on life points.
1:32:15 frog was rubbing its belly. Sad.😢
Hi bosh!! Loving your vids
It's in your plans uploading some duel Commander runs? Would love to check your insight in some decks like the esper reanimator commanded by aminatou
I play what my Patreon subscribers send me. Duel Commander looks cool, I hope I get some sent in. :)
BOSH N ROLL BABY AWWWWWW YEEEEEEE
R1G2 I feel like you broke your own rule about being in a control position: force them to make the first move. Tamiyo had their board under control, and they were going to be forced to eventually put Nadu into an unfavorable position for them.
Curie is spicy, I'm curious to see how it goes.
I really don't expect it to be good, the activated ability requires you to have another creature out and removes it from play. It reminds me of playing an aura enchantment and how easy it is to get blown out. But I'm definitely willing to be shown wrong
Yeah, it was basically a blue card for Force and a card to pitch for Frog. I don't think it ever actually did anything
Oculus + Curie = Eye Robot
So in the deck teck about 2 mana destroy spells
Does power word kill really miss that much? I’m not entirely into the metagame there,
Also in decks with a lot of non basics or heavy black you might be able to get away with victim of the night, but again, I don’t remebr the creature types in the metagame
Atraxa and Murktide are huge misses for PWK.
@ I completely forgot that atraxa was an angel there, that’s my bad
@@jonwilson5711 aspiring spike uses atraxa's angel type line to sneak her in with...... kaalia of the vast in modern. It's something special to be sure.
frog pack croak em if you got em
Ribbit
How many licks from a psychic frog does it take to steal a game you had no hope of winning?
One… two-hooooooo….
Bowmaster?
Edit: meaning is there a reason for the lack thereof?
How many do you want to play, what problem is it solving that the deck currently has, what cards in the deck as presented are you cutting for them, and what new problems does cutting those cards create?
Usually the answer to "why not (card)?" is "I'm already playing 60 I'm happy with."
How did I not get first at 7 am and I’m 10 minutes after premier 😂😂😂
Paid subscribers get to view first
I can assure you that is not true. There are however some sickos who spawn camp the video
Abhorrent Clockulus
Why not daze the bauble ?
Is entomb and the fatties even good if you’re always boarding them out g2-3.. lol 😏
Doing the thiiiiing
If Pyshic Frog avoids being banned I will be very pleasantly surprised. Stuff gets banned too easily anymore and I am pretty sick of it.
What else would be bad to see coming through a toothy door? Wrong answers only!
Dr. Tooth, on his way to greet the Frog?
🤢🤮too many random 3 ofs I cant even take the decklist seriously
But like really, if someone is squeezing cards in their deck by trimming playsets, then just cut playsets, not trim psychic frog and ponder
If your running 1, 2 or 3 of a card, then there has to be a good reason why, maybe you dont need one in your opening hand, maybe its to smooth curve consideration, maybe its a tutor target, maybe its legendary, maybe they suck in multipls, maybe its to hedge against certain matchups but bad in others. But trimming for the sake if trimming makes me sick
yugioh playset count goes brrr