It's an interesting look on the impact of editing when you notice an author's books spiral and inflate as they grow more popular. It's kind of a shame how little people seem to value editing when everyone needs another look at their work to make it the best it can be
My own personal thoughts. I read all of ACOTAR and all of Throne of glass (I was down bad for someone don't judge me). The death of Nahemia left a really bad taste in my mouth when reading it. I stopped buying her books after she exploited Breonna Taylor's death. It was disgusting that she would do that to begin with but it also reflected the way she treated her black character in her stories. While I also have laundry list of SJM criticism. I will simply comment them when/if you post more videos to get you engagement.
I'm only dealing with people who can get out of the shallow end of the pool is such a mood. The way in which you criticized her with precision was chef's kiss.
I remember years ago when i got on goodreads they almost got me lmao everyone was selling it as the best fantasy, thankfully i saw a video about her books before wasting my time
the idea that not criticising or talking about someone is somehow the same as deplatforming when that person has a huge, dedicated fanbase is so such a bizarre argument. all it does is silence valid criticism about maas and her actions and effectively encourage uncritically engaging with her work. its very transparent
Very!! And yet that doesn’t stop people from thinking they are doing something by being like “why do you keep talking about Maas?” Like idk how else to explain to people how REVIEWS work and why they are important.
I was honestly shocked when SJM got popular, bc my first experience with her was when I tried to read Throne of Glass ~10 years ago and hated the writing so much I quit on page 5. A couple years later when my roommate in my dorm tried to convince me SJM was the best writer ever I said nah then forgot SJM existed until I saw everyone talking about her books again like 2 years ago. I miss not remembering who she was tbh, but I'm also always here to hear you break down what exactly makes her writing bad. I always feel like I'm learning new ways of critically examining what I read when I watch your videos, and I am forever grateful that you're suffering through this book for us
Every time I recall this first book, I just remember how much it felt like fanfic that I read in the early 2010s and am always shocked that no one has uncovered SJMs secret past FF page
@mynameismarines go figure her best writing is a ripoff of someone else's. Now, all of her newest books are going to be fanfics of her OWN stories. She's going to have all the main characters in the SJM Multiverse start portal jumping into each other's world. That's the type of innovative storytelling her diehard fans deserve
YES. That was what initially appealed to me about her writing style. It had that trope-y “gotta know what happens next!” feeling, and that’s how it hooked me even when everything else about the story infuriated me
The main thing I remember about this book is a training scene early on where a man had to explain to her that she could use her anonymity and humble cover story to her advantage, and she was shocked pikachu over how brilliant this pearl of wisdom was. The best assassin who ever did live needed to be told that being inconspicuous is good actually. I DNF'd. The gap between what the reader is told about the MC and what we're shown is a canyon.
I appreciate your content so much, thank you❤. So honest; I havent read TOG , however Maas gave Lucien and Tarquin (summer court high lord) the same treatment in ACOTAR. At this point she uses race /poc as tokens. Its exhausting, after finishing ACOSF, I will never read another of her works. Her fanbase even refuse to accept how damaging/exhausting these stereotypes are.😩
I remember in acomaf how Feyre had chemistry with Tarquin who was honestly too sweet for this book. Sarah j Maas went out of her way to say that Tarquin was not good enough for Feyre because he was too privileged for her. The guy that is currently trying to avoid war and be a good leader is not good enough for her. Not only that but Feyre also insults him for wanting to get rid of the Wall. Like you have this fae guy who's actually good and sweet AND he wants to demolish the class division between both fae and humans and Feyre calls him stupid. That part of the book is honestly so telling of Sarah j Maas' inner thoughts. A black man wanting to get rid of racism and class division? He's an idiot! Doesn't he understand that we need those class division obviously 🙄?/jk
10:10 To add to your argument, Sarah J Maas put Caelena's backstory into a prequel book which is why her character felt hollow in TOG like you said. As a result, it weakened her as a character since at the time most people didn't know those books were apart of the same series
I never regret watching of your videos. I’ve had the second half of the throne of glass series sitting on my Goodreads TBR for many years, and this is clearly a sign to give up on it. I don’t need to waste my time with this series when I know there are so many others i could spend my time and money on.
As an unrelated note, those earrings are so pretty! Edit: I read ACOTAR recently and to hear that her writing has gotten worse since then.. lol I can’t wait to hear how that’s possible
Even before I learned about all the valid criticisms (before I was in the online book community), SJM had already lost me as a reader. The one and only series I've read from SJM was ACOTAR back in high school in 2015-2016. Even in high school, I didn't love ACOTAR, like I thought it was mediocre, but because I loved faeries (they're my favorite mythical creature, at least at the time. IDK if they still are, but we'll get back to that), and ACOTAR held enough of my attention to read book 2 (ACOMAF) and I'll admit, while I did not think SJM was a "great" writer (even in high school), I really enjoyed ACOMAF. So I was excited for book 3 (ACOWAR), . . . and I did not like it. Looking back at it now, I suspect ACOWAR is when SJM stopped having edits done to her books. MAN, once she realized she could get away with writing smut (back when she was still considered YA, before the rebrand to Adult/New Adult), her writing went from mediocre to tasteless slop to me in just one book. Again, I didn't think SJM's writing was amazing, but it was enough to keep me entertained for the ACOTAR and ACOMAF, and sometime that's all I ask for in books. I don't have any problems with smut, I like a good smutty scene as much as the next person, but SJM's sex scenes are too hardcore porno for me. When I read ACOWAR in high school and didn't enjoy it, it's when I realized that SJM uses sex scenes to distract from the GAPPING holes in her writing; plot holes, lacking world-building, non-existing character development, and tell-don't show style. I've listened to reviews about her other books, since I've never read them (and never will), it sounds like she copy and pastes the same characters in every book. If writing smut/erotica is something SJM enjoys doing, I'm happy for her (I have nothing against either of those), but I wish people would stop talking about her books as if she's done something ground breaking. And now any faerie/mythical creature adjacent books obviously inspired by SJM, has bogged down my enjoyment od faeries. I side eye anyone who recommends SJM's books or compares a book to SJM's. Which is why I appreciate authors like Julia Kagawa and Holly Black for their faeries, while not 100% folklore accurate, they still have the magical, enchanting, alluring feeling associated with faeries I grew up with, that SJM just doesn't have in her faeries. I think an argument can be made that SJM/SJM-copycats are why so many of us don't enjoy the romantasy genre. Sorry for the yap, this video just opened up a well for me. lol
If I remember correctly, in ACOTAR isn’t the barbarian shadow race Rhysand is a part of described as having a darker complexion? I could be wrong since it’s been years. The topic of the plague of ambiguously brown love interests in big YA hits would be interesting to cover though if you haven’t already.
Rhys is part of a race of dark skinned people who are characterized as barbaric, ruthless, tribal, animalistic, misogynistic. Aside from him and the other two illyrians, the other dark skinned characters are either villains, fridged women or servants. There are two prominent wraith/illyrian women who are described to have near black skin. These are also servants of Rhys who only show up to dress up Feyre, serve the inner circle or just stay in the background. I just want to point out how Sarah j Maas wrote her poc characters. They're all sexualized, villains, servants or abused women. It's like she just can't write people of color AT ALL. I'm genuinely baffled how no one seems to care that much about this aspect. And it's not just Sarah, it's other writers too who are milking the racially ambiguous shadow daddy trope. Part of the intrigue of this trope IS the racially ambiguousness. He's tall, he's dark but not too dark and him being racially ambiguous is what makes him so sexy. That paired with the fact that the shadow daddy trope more than often features an anti hero, morally grey man feels like good ol' racism.
If you are interested, she has a short essay on her Bindery about this very topic. She also mentioned it in the video before this one, she was talking about When The Moon Hatched, apparently it has the same problem
Thank you for the series. I’ve been thinking more deeply on how I thought I liked her books but there are some things that don’t sit right with me. Everything you are saying is spot on
Thank you for sharing! Even as someone who couldn’t make it past page one of the book I find the points you brought up so interesting and important, and it really helps me be critical of the work I consume too ☺️
I read "A Court of Thorns and Roses" when I was on a big Beauty & the Beast retelling kick while on medical leave from college back in 2015. I remember mildly enjoying it, but not enough to motivate me to seek out any sequels. From what I remember about my impressions at the time, it was FINE, but there were just too many weak points for me in characterization, storytelling, and world-building that I felt no compelling drive to read anything more from her. I found many books that did what she was trying to do much much better. I will never understand the massive popularity that she gained.
I read the first two Throne of Glass and got so pissed at Nehemia dying i haven't touched SJM since. Thank goodness. Everything i heard about the next books in the series seem like stuff I'd hate anyway.
Omfg the whiplash of you reading that quite on the prince being handsome vs her being dragged out of salt mines to be enslaved... If that isn't poor YA writing in a nutshell
100% agree with you. I like the rest of the series for the ensemble cast (book 4 onwards is the real meat of the story imo). However the Nehemia thing is awful. Especially since we get no real closure with her family. Even when the crew is around the area at the end of book 5 iirc, they never visit her family. It would've been a lot better imo if we got to see her family because it would put more emphasis on her character outside of what she could do for the plot and Celaena -_-
I have attempted Throne of Glass and ACOTAR. Maybe it's cause I'm a guy, but I couldn't get into them. I think I DNFed at 25% on both of them. The one thing I thought during my read of ACOTAR was I'm more invested in the warrior woman in the town. The FMC going off with that warrior woman would have been a much better story to me.
I've tried to get into Sarah J Maas multiple times. I dnf'd throne of glass after the first few pages. The writing was so poor I was surprised it had been published. ACOTAR was better written, but I still dnf'd it after a few chapters, because I found the characters hollow. I just don't think her books are for me. But I'm glad if others find them enjoyable. I just fail to understand the hype 🤷♀️
Probably. She uses "rattle the stars" from Treasure Planet in a later book, and has also ~borrowed~ lines and scenes from Lord of the Rings. The plagiarism gets overlooked quite a bit because it's one of the least problematic things about her
oh wow it’s even more racist than I remember 😳 also I think SJM’s other main characters are pretty transparently self-inserts as well so the hollow protagonist issue is not unique to this book and it definitely just gets worse as she gets less edited. I remember liking her books when I first read them at like 15 but I tried to read one again when I was getting back into reading after college and was absolutely baffled at how awful it was. forever glad that I learned to read critically lol and it’s a treat to see someone pick apart her work to showcase why it is so problematic
her books are not good. they're wattpad books and i'll hold to that. it was so validating watching your review cuz you had all the same problems with the book that i did whereas everyone i know lovessss SJM
I really appreciate this. I was always aware of SJM, but was never really interested. I read one of her series and was so bored, I could see why people could be interested because of certain elements, but I really don't get the hype. Plus like you've stated in this video, these books are chalk full of problematic trope and bad writing.
When you mentioned the number of en-dashes I thought, well, that's not that many... And then I remembered books in English use quotation marks for dialogues, not en-dashes 🙆 So yeah, that IS a lot
Back when the book had just come out and was really popular, I bought the book. I read the first couple of sentences and closed the book. It was a lot worse than fanfics I've read written by 14-year-olds.
@@mynameismarines Yeah, I had to go and search for the book in my library. "What she did not usually expect, however, was a hooded man in black at her side -- as there was now." I had to stop reading at that. XD;;; ...English is not my native language, but I have read English books for many years (and fanfics for almost as many). I couldn't deal with how...not good...that sounded. ^^;
Yikes. Never realised her books were problematic, they just seemed uninspired and I've never been motivated to read them. Thank you for being THE voice of reason.
I was given Throne of Glass as a gift, at the time I thought it was fine. This is before I got back into reading for fun. I tried book 2 and I honestly think it delayed me from picking up other books and getting into booktube because of how bad it was. I was like that's enough reading for now 😂
I also find a lot of problems with SJM as a writer. Now I'm curious to know if we have found the same issues or if you can add a few new ones to the list.
Oh no you’ve read Throne of Glass. This series is my Roman Empire, and I get so angry about it. Nehemia deserved so much better than this series. Edit: oh fuck YOURE READING THE WHOLE SERIES. I might actually combust from how upsetting the whole series is (up to the point I DNF’d her forever, anyway.) Edit edit: 23:48 oh thank god you already know. That was my breaking point with SJM. I have an entire rage-filled Ted talk that still lives in my heart even though I haven’t read this series in years. I gave her one more book to see if any part of my reading experience could be salvaged, but ultimately I couldn’t go forward. I’d never been that angry with a book series, and I don’t know if I’ve been so angry since.
I did the exact same thing when booktube was in its prime, the girls were constantly recommending those 2 books, got them around the same time as you did, and dnf both of them, so when the hype for them came back on booktok I was so confused, like didn’t we already do this?
I downloaded a sample of a Court of Thorns and Roses and couldn't even get through that. Her writing is strangely clunky. I read a lot of self-published Kindle Unlimited Romances, so I am used to typos and weird sentence structure, but that book... yikes.
I've steered clear of her books due to the several constructively critical reviews I had come across. I have sat through a video where the plot of ACOTAR was presented by a youtuber and I got a headache from rolling my eyes too hard. I really enjoyed your review immensely and it has reassured me in my decision to avoid her writing (we're used the word "writing" rather loosely here!). On a completely separate note - where did you get these earrings from??? I love them!!!
I'm here watching (and subscribed!) because I love your takes on a lot of things! I feel like we have similar but still distinct tastes, and I love being recommended books that I wouldn't ordinarily come across. And I'm very much all about calling out problematic content and authors (although I was never the target audience for SJM, so it's really not that hard for me to pass up her works 😅). But the way I've heard you describe how em dashes "ought" to be used is not consistent with standard practice, and there have been multiple times you've said a usage is "incorrect" when it was simply a matter of personal preference. It's okay not to like the way a particular author uses dashes, even if it's "right"! But there's a reason multiple commenters have pushed back on that point... (Side note: while it's not _quite_ on the same level, there are 1,506 em dashes in 1210 pages of _The Lord of the Rings_ - and that's including the substantial index, as well as notes on the text written by other authors in a more academic manner. Tolkien also followed semicolons (of which there are 4,931) with conjunctions _all the time_ lol! There are many things you might say about Tolkien, but that he did not trust his writing is not one.) But again, I'm all-in on calling out SJM (and other authors) for damaging and insensitive character depictions! And so I'm off to watch that video on her real-life behaviour... 👀
I mean incorrect as in there are times SJM uses them in such a way in the sentence in combination with other punctuation that the sentence becomes unreadable. You can lightly push back all you would like on that, but I stand by it. I’m not saying every use is incorrect, though it is overused, but she also does use them incorrectly. Also, comparing Tolkien to SJM in any way is lol but that’s still about half the rate at which SJM uses em dashes.
@@mynameismarines Sorry I didn't clarify, I only decided to comment about this specific topic this time because I had noticed it come up in multiple reviews. I can't remember which it was now (sorry! 😭 I can go back and find it if you'd really like me to cite my sources!) but in one video you outlined multiple "incorrect" uses of em dashes which are actually standard. And I'm not saying SJM is as good as Tolkien; I'm just pointing out there is more than one em dash per page in LotR, and more than three semicolons (which many readers like to say is "wrong").
I’m saying that even with that usage from Tolkien, SJM is still using more. I appreciate that you think I’m wrong, but I stand by my overall point: she uses them too frequently, she uses them to force tone, they create an unpleasant visual experience, and she even sometimes uses them incorrectly. I appreciate that you felt the need to correct me about something in a different video, but the main point of THIS video is that in addition to having bad craft, this book uses a majorly racist trope.
I reckon I first read TOG around about the same time you did, hated it, but couldn’t look away from the series. I read the rest of it (and ACOTAR) out of bile fascination. I think there are some ways that Maas improves as a writer over time, but there’s a reason I use the entire TOG series as a benchmark when I’m struggling to rate a book, especially YA fantasy. The whole series is, at best, a very generous 4/10, so if I think something’s better than TOG, it gets a higher rating than that. Maas’ writing style is appalling, both in terms of prose and dialogue. I swear that half the interminable length of this series could’ve been cut just by someone teaching her that overusing sentence fragments doesn’t make your work more impactful, and that giving every tiny line its own paragraph is a visual nightmare that wrecks any flow the prose might have had. And that’s before you get to the shoddy, shallow world-building, inconsistent character writing, and truly wretched presentation of gender, race, class, and sexuality (and disability! Tower of Dawn is one of the more tolerable books in the series, but the way it handles disability is a huge yikes). I thought the first two ACOTAR books were a sign of some genuine improvement in her basic writing, and I do think she presents twists in a decent fashion, but oh my god, then I read the rest of the series and it killed even my bile fascination. The treatment of Nehemia in TOG is one of the most upsetting uses of any character in anything, quite frankly, but I never clocked how the racism towards the people of Eyllwe was baked into the narrative before she’s introduced. Thank you for another insightful analysis!
I feel like ACOTAR should have ended after the first 3 and I couldn't get through Crescent City but I do enjoy Throne of Glass. I just finished Queen of Shadows. I think for me, I went in with the mindset that it was written by, I think she was 16? So I'm reading a teenager's work about a teenager. The descriptions and some parts are definitely side eye worthy 😭 Regarding the plot holes, or things like the emphasis on her beauty, I think it relates back to how The Assassins Blade is technically the prequel to the story and a lot of things are answered there, how she was raised by the King of Assassins. The situation with magic and everything gets more relevant in the next ones. I definitely agree lol she is so oblivious sometimes and gets snuck up on way too many times 😂 Nehemia's entire storyline upset me, but I won't spoil it for others. I haven't heard much cricism regarding SJM, and I really appreciate you for bringing this to the light. So much of her online is praise that I never really thought to look deeper into who and how she writes. I'm definitely going to go into the last 3 books with a different mind frame and take more notice of things. I think it's easier to miss it because I listen to the audio. Great video!
Hi! Just for clarification. Although Sarah wrote the story that later became Throne of Glass on Fictionpress back in high school the book that was actually published was significantly edited and by the time it published Sarah was out of school and I think married. I know this because I was that nerd who followed Sarah on Fictionpress and then Live journal, Let the Words Flow (blog) Pub(lishing) Crawl (blog) all the way to pre-ordering ToG in 2012. Among other changes, she aged major characters down and tweaked the story to be YA, she ripped out an entire Cinderella retelling character and storyline, she moved major aspects of Nehemiah's storyline out of the King's assassin competition, she added Manon who was not a character in the Fictionpress story, Rowan's and Dorian's roles changed significantly. Etc. Etc. These were edits and writing decisions she made _as an adult_ and at least through Heir of Fire she was also getting edits from her editor at Bloomsbury. Sorry if this is a lot on a comment, I just don't think "she was 17 when she wrote it" is really a good excuse because she wasn't 17 when she edited and published it. Edit: also, to be clear, you aren't the only person with this misconception! I know especially as Live journal and other parts of the Internet have kind of crumbled away it's hard to know how much Sarah's publishing journey really was a multi year thing and not just a Christopher Paolini Eragon overnight teen sensation.
I read this and it was literally one of the worst books I’ve ever read and you’re telling me this was one of the better books she wrote? How is she so popular I just don’t understand
Yep. Off the top of my head, The Schools for Good Mothers. I think it’s just a convenient literary trend. Looks visually interesting and is super easy for graphic designers to render.
I say this as someone who has never read nor ever plans to read SJM, but why do you have such a weird obsession with SJM???? Like yeah, her books are mediocre at best if I can give it that so why put in so much energy into something that you know you're already not going to like????
Hey, so, I can’t tell if this is a bad faith question or just a stupid one? I spend the whole beginning of this video explaining why I’m doing this project.
@mynameismarines It's just that you talk so much about SJM online!!! And like right here in this very comment you made, when people bring something like this up, you get defensive and insult people 😫
I made this comment because I literally explain in this video that you are commenting on why I made this video. What’s the point of you not watching and engaging this way? Are you the only person who can engage with things you don’t like, but if I do, it’s bad? And mind you, I’m reviewing a book without tagging the author, and you are actually in my comments addressing me, a person. I don’t know how else to explain to people like you that reviewing mega-popular harmful work is important because at this point it feels like willful misunderstanding and ignorance.
9:22 AND!! As someone from a language who uses primarily EM-Dashes to mark dialogue (instead of quotation marks) omg reading SJM was absolute hell. An awful awful time I do not recommend. She abuses the poor dashes so much I begun thinking that it was actual dialogue in the middle of paragraphs because there was no logical reason for a book to have 3 phrases in-between dashes EVERY SINGLE PAGE. In ACOTAR and CC they held them visibly back but that was really the first bad taste of many 🫢.
It's an interesting look on the impact of editing when you notice an author's books spiral and inflate as they grow more popular. It's kind of a shame how little people seem to value editing when everyone needs another look at their work to make it the best it can be
I am sat. We genuinely need more people criticizing her work. You and Cindy are the only people I have really seen criticizing her work.
My own personal thoughts. I read all of ACOTAR and all of Throne of glass (I was down bad for someone don't judge me). The death of Nahemia left a really bad taste in my mouth when reading it. I stopped buying her books after she exploited Breonna Taylor's death. It was disgusting that she would do that to begin with but it also reflected the way she treated her black character in her stories.
While I also have laundry list of SJM criticism. I will simply comment them when/if you post more videos to get you engagement.
@@corvi_daeSHE DID WHAT? NO. I wish I was surprised, oh my god 😭
Hannah from A Clockwork Reader and Merphy have also criticised her
I'm only dealing with people who can get out of the shallow end of the pool is such a mood. The way in which you criticized her with precision was chef's kiss.
I’m a simple lass. I see Mari’s new video being a roast of an SJM book, I click. 😌 we thank you for your service, Mari ❤
The popularity of SJM will forever be lost on me
Never read anything by her, yet. I might borrow it from the library one day out of curiosity
I remember years ago when i got on goodreads they almost got me lmao everyone was selling it as the best fantasy, thankfully i saw a video about her books before wasting my time
the idea that not criticising or talking about someone is somehow the same as deplatforming when that person has a huge, dedicated fanbase is so such a bizarre argument. all it does is silence valid criticism about maas and her actions and effectively encourage uncritically engaging with her work. its very transparent
Very!! And yet that doesn’t stop people from thinking they are doing something by being like “why do you keep talking about Maas?” Like idk how else to explain to people how REVIEWS work and why they are important.
Read the title, laughed out loud, and then clicked on it. I thought I was the only one who thought this
I was honestly shocked when SJM got popular, bc my first experience with her was when I tried to read Throne of Glass ~10 years ago and hated the writing so much I quit on page 5. A couple years later when my roommate in my dorm tried to convince me SJM was the best writer ever I said nah then forgot SJM existed until I saw everyone talking about her books again like 2 years ago.
I miss not remembering who she was tbh, but I'm also always here to hear you break down what exactly makes her writing bad. I always feel like I'm learning new ways of critically examining what I read when I watch your videos, and I am forever grateful that you're suffering through this book for us
I have so many IRL experiences where I meet someone who is like “I love reading too. Have you read SJM?” And I have to 😬
Every time I recall this first book, I just remember how much it felt like fanfic that I read in the early 2010s and am always shocked that no one has uncovered SJMs secret past FF page
She wrote Sailor Moon fanfic, but pulled it all when she was trying to get published
It was serialized at first too and I think you can definitely still feel pieces of that even though this was changed and edited before publication.
@mynameismarines go figure her best writing is a ripoff of someone else's. Now, all of her newest books are going to be fanfics of her OWN stories. She's going to have all the main characters in the SJM Multiverse start portal jumping into each other's world. That's the type of innovative storytelling her diehard fans deserve
ya she was a fictionalley writer lol.
YES. That was what initially appealed to me about her writing style. It had that trope-y “gotta know what happens next!” feeling, and that’s how it hooked me even when everything else about the story infuriated me
The main thing I remember about this book is a training scene early on where a man had to explain to her that she could use her anonymity and humble cover story to her advantage, and she was shocked pikachu over how brilliant this pearl of wisdom was. The best assassin who ever did live needed to be told that being inconspicuous is good actually. I DNF'd. The gap between what the reader is told about the MC and what we're shown is a canyon.
I appreciate your content so much, thank you❤. So honest; I havent read TOG , however Maas gave Lucien and Tarquin (summer court high lord) the same treatment in ACOTAR. At this point she uses race /poc as tokens. Its exhausting, after finishing ACOSF, I will never read another of her works. Her fanbase even refuse to accept how damaging/exhausting these stereotypes are.😩
I remember in acomaf how Feyre had chemistry with Tarquin who was honestly too sweet for this book. Sarah j Maas went out of her way to say that Tarquin was not good enough for Feyre because he was too privileged for her. The guy that is currently trying to avoid war and be a good leader is not good enough for her. Not only that but Feyre also insults him for wanting to get rid of the Wall. Like you have this fae guy who's actually good and sweet AND he wants to demolish the class division between both fae and humans and Feyre calls him stupid. That part of the book is honestly so telling of Sarah j Maas' inner thoughts. A black man wanting to get rid of racism and class division? He's an idiot! Doesn't he understand that we need those class division obviously 🙄?/jk
10:10 To add to your argument, Sarah J Maas put Caelena's backstory into a prequel book which is why her character felt hollow in TOG like you said. As a result, it weakened her as a character since at the time most people didn't know those books were apart of the same series
I love your analysis so much. I couldn't stand the shoddy writing in the first book of the ACOTAR series. I'm happy to hear I'm not missing much 😂
I really don’t think you are. I mean, even her fans talk about reading this “brain off” and how you have to ignore a bunch of it to have a good time.
Oh that Nehemia part sent me in a 2010's flashback loop. I can't believe they want to send the world back to this and worst.
Yes! I love your reviews. You are so thorough and articulate.
I never regret watching of your videos. I’ve had the second half of the throne of glass series sitting on my Goodreads TBR for many years, and this is clearly a sign to give up on it. I don’t need to waste my time with this series when I know there are so many others i could spend my time and money on.
Thank you! And yeah, I can’t say I recommend finishing it up, personally. It’s trite and predictable on top of being problematic.
As an unrelated note, those earrings are so pretty!
Edit: I read ACOTAR recently and to hear that her writing has gotten worse since then.. lol I can’t wait to hear how that’s possible
Even before I learned about all the valid criticisms (before I was in the online book community), SJM had already lost me as a reader.
The one and only series I've read from SJM was ACOTAR back in high school in 2015-2016. Even in high school, I didn't love ACOTAR, like I thought it was mediocre, but because I loved faeries (they're my favorite mythical creature, at least at the time. IDK if they still are, but we'll get back to that), and ACOTAR held enough of my attention to read book 2 (ACOMAF) and I'll admit, while I did not think SJM was a "great" writer (even in high school), I really enjoyed ACOMAF. So I was excited for book 3 (ACOWAR), . . . and I did not like it. Looking back at it now, I suspect ACOWAR is when SJM stopped having edits done to her books. MAN, once she realized she could get away with writing smut (back when she was still considered YA, before the rebrand to Adult/New Adult), her writing went from mediocre to tasteless slop to me in just one book. Again, I didn't think SJM's writing was amazing, but it was enough to keep me entertained for the ACOTAR and ACOMAF, and sometime that's all I ask for in books.
I don't have any problems with smut, I like a good smutty scene as much as the next person, but SJM's sex scenes are too hardcore porno for me. When I read ACOWAR in high school and didn't enjoy it, it's when I realized that SJM uses sex scenes to distract from the GAPPING holes in her writing; plot holes, lacking world-building, non-existing character development, and tell-don't show style. I've listened to reviews about her other books, since I've never read them (and never will), it sounds like she copy and pastes the same characters in every book.
If writing smut/erotica is something SJM enjoys doing, I'm happy for her (I have nothing against either of those), but I wish people would stop talking about her books as if she's done something ground breaking. And now any faerie/mythical creature adjacent books obviously inspired by SJM, has bogged down my enjoyment od faeries. I side eye anyone who recommends SJM's books or compares a book to SJM's. Which is why I appreciate authors like Julia Kagawa and Holly Black for their faeries, while not 100% folklore accurate, they still have the magical, enchanting, alluring feeling associated with faeries I grew up with, that SJM just doesn't have in her faeries.
I think an argument can be made that SJM/SJM-copycats are why so many of us don't enjoy the romantasy genre.
Sorry for the yap, this video just opened up a well for me. lol
If I remember correctly, in ACOTAR isn’t the barbarian shadow race Rhysand is a part of described as having a darker complexion? I could be wrong since it’s been years. The topic of the plague of ambiguously brown love interests in big YA hits would be interesting to cover though if you haven’t already.
Rhys is part of a race of dark skinned people who are characterized as barbaric, ruthless, tribal, animalistic, misogynistic. Aside from him and the other two illyrians, the other dark skinned characters are either villains, fridged women or servants. There are two prominent wraith/illyrian women who are described to have near black skin. These are also servants of Rhys who only show up to dress up Feyre, serve the inner circle or just stay in the background. I just want to point out how Sarah j Maas wrote her poc characters. They're all sexualized, villains, servants or abused women. It's like she just can't write people of color AT ALL. I'm genuinely baffled how no one seems to care that much about this aspect.
And it's not just Sarah, it's other writers too who are milking the racially ambiguous shadow daddy trope. Part of the intrigue of this trope IS the racially ambiguousness. He's tall, he's dark but not too dark and him being racially ambiguous is what makes him so sexy. That paired with the fact that the shadow daddy trope more than often features an anti hero, morally grey man feels like good ol' racism.
If you are interested, she has a short essay on her Bindery about this very topic. She also mentioned it in the video before this one, she was talking about When The Moon Hatched, apparently it has the same problem
Thank you for the series. I’ve been thinking more deeply on how I thought I liked her books but there are some things that don’t sit right with me. Everything you are saying is spot on
Thank you for sharing! Even as someone who couldn’t make it past page one of the book I find the points you brought up so interesting and important, and it really helps me be critical of the work I consume too ☺️
when I read these books back in the day, I didn’t like them. So getting to see you dissect them is going to be a treat!
I read "A Court of Thorns and Roses" when I was on a big Beauty & the Beast retelling kick while on medical leave from college back in 2015. I remember mildly enjoying it, but not enough to motivate me to seek out any sequels. From what I remember about my impressions at the time, it was FINE, but there were just too many weak points for me in characterization, storytelling, and world-building that I felt no compelling drive to read anything more from her.
I found many books that did what she was trying to do much much better.
I will never understand the massive popularity that she gained.
I also don't get the SJM popularity. Since you mentioned it, can you recommend some books?
I read the first two Throne of Glass and got so pissed at Nehemia dying i haven't touched SJM since. Thank goodness. Everything i heard about the next books in the series seem like stuff I'd hate anyway.
Love seeing your content on booktube again !
Omfg the whiplash of you reading that quite on the prince being handsome vs her being dragged out of salt mines to be enslaved... If that isn't poor YA writing in a nutshell
OH, how she LOVED sweets!!
100% agree with you. I like the rest of the series for the ensemble cast (book 4 onwards is the real meat of the story imo). However the Nehemia thing is awful. Especially since we get no real closure with her family. Even when the crew is around the area at the end of book 5 iirc, they never visit her family. It would've been a lot better imo if we got to see her family because it would put more emphasis on her character outside of what she could do for the plot and Celaena -_-
Gah, this is so incredibly helpful to articulate what my hindsight is about all of SJM now that I’m continuing in my reading and reviewing practice.
I have attempted Throne of Glass and ACOTAR. Maybe it's cause I'm a guy, but I couldn't get into them. I think I DNFed at 25% on both of them. The one thing I thought during my read of ACOTAR was I'm more invested in the warrior woman in the town. The FMC going off with that warrior woman would have been a much better story to me.
Not a guy thing, don't worry. They really are hard to read just by way of being nonsense.
I’ve read both Throne of Glass and ACOTAR. Neither book made me want to continue either series.
I've tried to get into Sarah J Maas multiple times. I dnf'd throne of glass after the first few pages. The writing was so poor I was surprised it had been published. ACOTAR was better written, but I still dnf'd it after a few chapters, because I found the characters hollow. I just don't think her books are for me. But I'm glad if others find them enjoyable. I just fail to understand the hype 🤷♀️
isn't that 'spirit-who-could-not-be-broken' line from the movie Spirit??
Probably. She uses "rattle the stars" from Treasure Planet in a later book, and has also ~borrowed~ lines and scenes from Lord of the Rings. The plagiarism gets overlooked quite a bit because it's one of the least problematic things about her
I didn't catch that, it's been too long since I watched that movie!
She really went ahead and renamed her main character after a horse lmao
oh wow it’s even more racist than I remember 😳 also I think SJM’s other main characters are pretty transparently self-inserts as well so the hollow protagonist issue is not unique to this book and it definitely just gets worse as she gets less edited. I remember liking her books when I first read them at like 15 but I tried to read one again when I was getting back into reading after college and was absolutely baffled at how awful it was. forever glad that I learned to read critically lol and it’s a treat to see someone pick apart her work to showcase why it is so problematic
her books are not good. they're wattpad books and i'll hold to that. it was so validating watching your review cuz you had all the same problems with the book that i did whereas everyone i know lovessss SJM
I really appreciate this. I was always aware of SJM, but was never really interested. I read one of her series and was so bored, I could see why people could be interested because of certain elements, but I really don't get the hype. Plus like you've stated in this video, these books are chalk full of problematic trope and bad writing.
When you mentioned the number of en-dashes I thought, well, that's not that many... And then I remembered books in English use quotation marks for dialogues, not en-dashes 🙆 So yeah, that IS a lot
so here for this
You have summed up my problems with SJM as a writer and this book in particular so well. It does not get better as the series goes on, unfortunatley
I believe it. She’s some how getting worse and worse with time.
Back when the book had just come out and was really popular, I bought the book. I read the first couple of sentences and closed the book. It was a lot worse than fanfics I've read written by 14-year-olds.
It really is clunky, I fear.
@@mynameismarines Yeah, I had to go and search for the book in my library.
"What she did not usually expect, however, was a hooded man in black at her side -- as there was now."
I had to stop reading at that. XD;;; ...English is not my native language, but I have read English books for many years (and fanfics for almost as many). I couldn't deal with how...not good...that sounded. ^^;
@@froggyringuSarah j Maas not using the word "male" is trippy.
Yikes. Never realised her books were problematic, they just seemed uninspired and I've never been motivated to read them. Thank you for being THE voice of reason.
I was given Throne of Glass as a gift, at the time I thought it was fine. This is before I got back into reading for fun. I tried book 2 and I honestly think it delayed me from picking up other books and getting into booktube because of how bad it was. I was like that's enough reading for now 😂
19:35 ...wow.
I also find a lot of problems with SJM as a writer. Now I'm curious to know if we have found the same issues or if you can add a few new ones to the list.
Oh no you’ve read Throne of Glass. This series is my Roman Empire, and I get so angry about it. Nehemia deserved so much better than this series.
Edit: oh fuck YOURE READING THE WHOLE SERIES. I might actually combust from how upsetting the whole series is (up to the point I DNF’d her forever, anyway.)
Edit edit: 23:48 oh thank god you already know. That was my breaking point with SJM. I have an entire rage-filled Ted talk that still lives in my heart even though I haven’t read this series in years. I gave her one more book to see if any part of my reading experience could be salvaged, but ultimately I couldn’t go forward. I’d never been that angry with a book series, and I don’t know if I’ve been so angry since.
Thoughts and Prayers to THAT lady's Black and Brown fans bec. she doesnt love them back!
😬
I did the exact same thing when booktube was in its prime, the girls were constantly recommending those 2 books, got them around the same time as you did, and dnf both of them, so when the hype for them came back on booktok I was so confused, like didn’t we already do this?
I downloaded a sample of a Court of Thorns and Roses and couldn't even get through that. Her writing is strangely clunky. I read a lot of self-published Kindle Unlimited Romances, so I am used to typos and weird sentence structure, but that book... yikes.
I've steered clear of her books due to the several constructively critical reviews I had come across. I have sat through a video where the plot of ACOTAR was presented by a youtuber and I got a headache from rolling my eyes too hard. I really enjoyed your review immensely and it has reassured me in my decision to avoid her writing (we're used the word "writing" rather loosely here!).
On a completely separate note - where did you get these earrings from??? I love them!!!
They were a gift! I believe they were purchased at a craft market, too.
I'm here watching (and subscribed!) because I love your takes on a lot of things! I feel like we have similar but still distinct tastes, and I love being recommended books that I wouldn't ordinarily come across. And I'm very much all about calling out problematic content and authors (although I was never the target audience for SJM, so it's really not that hard for me to pass up her works 😅).
But the way I've heard you describe how em dashes "ought" to be used is not consistent with standard practice, and there have been multiple times you've said a usage is "incorrect" when it was simply a matter of personal preference. It's okay not to like the way a particular author uses dashes, even if it's "right"! But there's a reason multiple commenters have pushed back on that point...
(Side note: while it's not _quite_ on the same level, there are 1,506 em dashes in 1210 pages of _The Lord of the Rings_ - and that's including the substantial index, as well as notes on the text written by other authors in a more academic manner. Tolkien also followed semicolons (of which there are 4,931) with conjunctions _all the time_ lol! There are many things you might say about Tolkien, but that he did not trust his writing is not one.)
But again, I'm all-in on calling out SJM (and other authors) for damaging and insensitive character depictions! And so I'm off to watch that video on her real-life behaviour... 👀
I mean incorrect as in there are times SJM uses them in such a way in the sentence in combination with other punctuation that the sentence becomes unreadable. You can lightly push back all you would like on that, but I stand by it. I’m not saying every use is incorrect, though it is overused, but she also does use them incorrectly.
Also, comparing Tolkien to SJM in any way is lol but that’s still about half the rate at which SJM uses em dashes.
@@mynameismarines Sorry I didn't clarify, I only decided to comment about this specific topic this time because I had noticed it come up in multiple reviews. I can't remember which it was now (sorry! 😭 I can go back and find it if you'd really like me to cite my sources!) but in one video you outlined multiple "incorrect" uses of em dashes which are actually standard.
And I'm not saying SJM is as good as Tolkien; I'm just pointing out there is more than one em dash per page in LotR, and more than three semicolons (which many readers like to say is "wrong").
It was the review about whatever book had "door" in it so much that you literally counted!
I’m saying that even with that usage from Tolkien, SJM is still using more. I appreciate that you think I’m wrong, but I stand by my overall point: she uses them too frequently, she uses them to force tone, they create an unpleasant visual experience, and she even sometimes uses them incorrectly. I appreciate that you felt the need to correct me about something in a different video, but the main point of THIS video is that in addition to having bad craft, this book uses a majorly racist trope.
I reckon I first read TOG around about the same time you did, hated it, but couldn’t look away from the series. I read the rest of it (and ACOTAR) out of bile fascination. I think there are some ways that Maas improves as a writer over time, but there’s a reason I use the entire TOG series as a benchmark when I’m struggling to rate a book, especially YA fantasy. The whole series is, at best, a very generous 4/10, so if I think something’s better than TOG, it gets a higher rating than that. Maas’ writing style is appalling, both in terms of prose and dialogue. I swear that half the interminable length of this series could’ve been cut just by someone teaching her that overusing sentence fragments doesn’t make your work more impactful, and that giving every tiny line its own paragraph is a visual nightmare that wrecks any flow the prose might have had. And that’s before you get to the shoddy, shallow world-building, inconsistent character writing, and truly wretched presentation of gender, race, class, and sexuality (and disability! Tower of Dawn is one of the more tolerable books in the series, but the way it handles disability is a huge yikes). I thought the first two ACOTAR books were a sign of some genuine improvement in her basic writing, and I do think she presents twists in a decent fashion, but oh my god, then I read the rest of the series and it killed even my bile fascination. The treatment of Nehemia in TOG is one of the most upsetting uses of any character in anything, quite frankly, but I never clocked how the racism towards the people of Eyllwe was baked into the narrative before she’s introduced. Thank you for another insightful analysis!
I feel like ACOTAR should have ended after the first 3 and I couldn't get through Crescent City but I do enjoy Throne of Glass. I just finished Queen of Shadows.
I think for me, I went in with the mindset that it was written by, I think she was 16? So I'm reading a teenager's work about a teenager. The descriptions and some parts are definitely side eye worthy 😭
Regarding the plot holes, or things like the emphasis on her beauty, I think it relates back to how The Assassins Blade is technically the prequel to the story and a lot of things are answered there, how she was raised by the King of Assassins. The situation with magic and everything gets more relevant in the next ones.
I definitely agree lol she is so oblivious sometimes and gets snuck up on way too many times 😂 Nehemia's entire storyline upset me, but I won't spoil it for others.
I haven't heard much cricism regarding SJM, and I really appreciate you for bringing this to the light. So much of her online is praise that I never really thought to look deeper into who and how she writes. I'm definitely going to go into the last 3 books with a different mind frame and take more notice of things. I think it's easier to miss it because I listen to the audio. Great video!
Hi! Just for clarification. Although Sarah wrote the story that later became Throne of Glass on Fictionpress back in high school the book that was actually published was significantly edited and by the time it published Sarah was out of school and I think married.
I know this because I was that nerd who followed Sarah on Fictionpress and then Live journal, Let the Words Flow (blog) Pub(lishing) Crawl (blog) all the way to pre-ordering ToG in 2012.
Among other changes, she aged major characters down and tweaked the story to be YA, she ripped out an entire Cinderella retelling character and storyline, she moved major aspects of Nehemiah's storyline out of the King's assassin competition, she added Manon who was not a character in the Fictionpress story, Rowan's and Dorian's roles changed significantly. Etc. Etc.
These were edits and writing decisions she made _as an adult_ and at least through Heir of Fire she was also getting edits from her editor at Bloomsbury.
Sorry if this is a lot on a comment, I just don't think "she was 17 when she wrote it" is really a good excuse because she wasn't 17 when she edited and published it.
Edit: also, to be clear, you aren't the only person with this misconception! I know especially as Live journal and other parts of the Internet have kind of crumbled away it's hard to know how much Sarah's publishing journey really was a multi year thing and not just a Christopher Paolini Eragon overnight teen sensation.
I read this and it was literally one of the worst books I’ve ever read and you’re telling me this was one of the better books she wrote? How is she so popular I just don’t understand
Same, for real
Read TAB FIRST
Wait, isin't that type of endless corridor usually used for contemporary books? I swear I saw it on so many slice of life covers.
Yep. Off the top of my head, The Schools for Good Mothers. I think it’s just a convenient literary trend. Looks visually interesting and is super easy for graphic designers to render.
Sarah J Maas is not a good writer, she remind me of J. R Ward another writer who's work is poorly written.
I say this as someone who has never read nor ever plans to read SJM, but why do you have such a weird obsession with SJM???? Like yeah, her books are mediocre at best if I can give it that so why put in so much energy into something that you know you're already not going to like????
Hey, so, I can’t tell if this is a bad faith question or just a stupid one? I spend the whole beginning of this video explaining why I’m doing this project.
@mynameismarines It's just that you talk so much about SJM online!!! And like right here in this very comment you made, when people bring something like this up, you get defensive and insult people 😫
I made this comment because I literally explain in this video that you are commenting on why I made this video. What’s the point of you not watching and engaging this way? Are you the only person who can engage with things you don’t like, but if I do, it’s bad? And mind you, I’m reviewing a book without tagging the author, and you are actually in my comments addressing me, a person. I don’t know how else to explain to people like you that reviewing mega-popular harmful work is important because at this point it feels like willful misunderstanding and ignorance.
havent read but you think her books are mediocre? what, do you, like, listen to critique or something?
@@mynameismarinesdon't interact with this clown
Attention seeking much 🤷
And what is this comment, then? Fair and reasonable? lol
9:22 AND!! As someone from a language who uses primarily EM-Dashes to mark dialogue (instead of quotation marks) omg reading SJM was absolute hell. An awful awful time I do not recommend. She abuses the poor dashes so much I begun thinking that it was actual dialogue in the middle of paragraphs because there was no logical reason for a book to have 3 phrases in-between dashes EVERY SINGLE PAGE.
In ACOTAR and CC they held them visibly back but that was really the first bad taste of many 🫢.
I genuinely cannot even imagine what a nightmare that is!!!