GGG's biggest issue currently is that it's still using POE1 enemy structures in endgame. Flooding the screen with hasted mobs doesn't work with a slower, more intentional combat system. If this doesn't get addressed, we'll get back to POE1 levels of power creep before 1.0. I really hope they understand how devastating it could be continuing down this path.
They’ve turned the endgame into PoE1, where the slow and methodical campaign gameplay doesn’t translate well to the fast-paced endgame, which can be cleared with just one button.
Appreciated the different perspectives you guys had, the segment about GGG's vision is the most important in my opinion. People identify problems and devs find solutions to those problems according to their vision and objectives for their game.
Seeing MacroBioBoi on here now as well I hear Frostylaroo's voice "welcome back, you traitors" Seriously though I'm really enjoying the game so far (although some things that also kind of aggravating which will hopefully be smoothed out by launch).
@@LeviathanD3 Great podcast btw.That's hard to say because some things seem to be baked into the core design and the developers probably won't change those. Like I think dodge should cost mana, but be able to i-frame everything. I also dislike how many attacks are very quick and not telegraphed well. However, things like skill balance are much more likely to be changed. I've made a dozen characters and had wildly different experiences with each one. I'll also be happy when more weapons and skills are added (although I realize that will make things more unbalanced again).
Exp loss is just part of the game. Using poe1 as an example, you will absolutely make gains through an entire day of grinding, even if you gained 0% experience. I would be very surprised if the same doesn't hold true for poe2. "Gotta be max level in softcore" is a very Diablo mentality...
I think the Gemling is the most versatile ascendency in the game. I'm currently playing one as a minion build and it's fantastic. Macro's analogy of D2 to D3 is not at all the same experience mainly because D2 was Epic and D3 was and still is trash. And PoE1 and PoE2 are both amazing in their own right.
So Leviathan works for Blizzard right? I have not watched the whole video but I really hope and beg the D4 devs are playing PoE2 and I hope D4 gets inspired from them. Make combat slower and more meaningful, make boss fights that have cool mechanics.
Yea Leviathan is a Blizzard Employee and Macro is a at the very least Blizzard Partner, if not more who gets invited to all of things. I guess it will be interesting to see what they have to say about PoE2 however, it would be better if these things were disclosed upfront.
I’m liking what I’m playing so far. I’m still stuck in Act 1 as a warrior and a monk but I just put it down when I get frustrated. I’m one of those who will need a good guide to progress.
I ragequit on Act 1 boss with my first character then tried some new characters. After having made over 10 characters, I have to say the skills are very unbalanced. It's not even the classes (although there might be some that are overall better than others) but individual skills. There have at least been some nerfs and a few buffs. Just be careful with meta builds bc some get nerfed, but yeah a guide is probably good if you're struggling. I'm kind of stubborn and want to figure out on my own, but it's not a very efficient use of time.
Hey, If you're melee try to get gear with regen. There are probably in the vendor. It's pretty strong early on. If you have 1 or 2 regen on all gear, ACT 1 won't be a problem.
Get cold resistance and some hp regen on your gear. Worry more about defense rather than offense. That boss can be a bitch for sure. Also boneshatter works good to blow up the adds in the fog circle part of the fight. Also your basic attack is really good early on. Make sure your best damage supports are in that skill for the boss fight. Don’t try to use rolling slam at all, it’s a death sentence. Good luck.
fellow busted hands bro here - macro makes some great points about controller. my big gripes: - no ability to easily jump to mouse/keyboard for inventory nonsense between lots of playing/etc - I actually dont mind the twinstick feel, but I am just not using the right stick since the auto-aim is mostly solid -when autoaim prevents you from looting shit on the ground mid combat. let me hoover the items! but yeah, otherwise this game is a dream to play for my busted carpal hands compared to last epoch.
good news: They said they wanted to make quick swap between controller and mouse cause they got feedback about it in their last playtest before release but couldn't get it done in time, it is definitely something they're working on, also looting in poe 2 feels a little strange even with mouse so hope they get that figured out, i've picked up far too many things i don't want so now i'm wishing for a good loot filter
i don't get what xanth is talking about with chayula monk, the flames of chayula give all damage as extra chaos not just phys, it's not convert, it's damage as extra, i'm tearing through shit even tho 2/3rds of my damage is elemental when i pick up those flames, the real problem with it is the uptime and consistency of the flames which in aoe you solve with mantra of destruction and a good powerful aoe attack like falling thunder or the bell, when i fight bosses i deal an okay amount of damage when they summon adds i suddenly hit for 4 times the damage thanks to my flames of chayula, also i'm playing pillar of the caged god too just on my monk cause i wanted to use chayula
@@XanthXanth-j1z, ah yes the leech is definitely weird, but consider that the bell is like the biggest damage burst in the quarterstaff skills and is fully physical, either way i didn't pick up the leech nodes not am i planning to, the chaos res and the damage as extra chaos are just imo better. I'm not really a build maker so my stuff is just a scuffed build i put together, i basically went out to the edge of the tree and made like a 240 degree semi circle picking up all the big attribute nodes and spaghettification, i literally have every node on the tree that gives increased attributes, defensively i went for armor and evasion so i grabbed the cluster at the bottom of the tree and that's basically where i'm at, the plan from here is good gear and eventually astramentis and the xesht int/dex stacking gloves for even more damage, this build is probably a more glass cannon version of the gemling stacker. Also to generate flames you do mantra of destruction with the bell since it affects the entire bell and not just the impact, on bosses you just do normal monk stuff, put bell down and ring it i know of another build by content creator noname, who is using the bell and basically farming TOTS cause he was a sanctum farmer back in poe 1, i haven't looked at it because i want to stay guideless as much as i can but he seems to be having success with chayula monk.
Super interesting to see people liking the endgame. I finally called it quits after a few t15 + 3 maps, and I was not enjoying that at all. I'd say 1-75 was pretty great, and then the gameplay experience and reward loop dropped off a steep cliff. Gonna pay attention though, cause I wanna see what feedback ggg takes to heart.
Im kinda confused by this podcast. Maybe its me being a first time listener but your guests complain about one shots and then also complain sbout monster speed and lethality. How exactly are you ever supposed to die then? XP penalty exists to force that only the best players hit max level and the game doesn't require you to do that for pinnacle content. Maybe it should kick in later but I think its necessary to force players to make well rounded builds and hit skillful play. The fact that they cant see that makes me think they have no more authority on the game than the average Redditor.
I think this is a fair take for defending the XP penalty. Speaking at least for myself, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with an XP penalty on death in and of itself, but moreso that it stacks on top of other existing penalties for dying. I think we were more saying some part of the current death penalties should be eased a bit.
@@LeviathanD3 That's definitely fair. Personally I think the compromise is sitting back in POE1 - Just bring back 6 portals. If you can't complete a map in 6 deaths you don't deserve the league mechanics on retry and it solves the endgame boss problem of grinding for 100 hours to die to a boss and never see it again.
With them maintaining the six portals in POE2 already as well, that seems like the cleanest solution to me. Will be interesting to see what they decide!
@@ryanwidmer5311 I feel like with the recent patch they made maps already too easy for 6 portal defense. Like, what map would realistically kill you that often unless you run high tiers on your twinks? Honestly I'd prefer what they had in mind with maps actually failing and blocking the path because what really feels bad is running a map again with less juice than you wanted to. I guess there'd also be room for a orb of horizon type currency to reroll any map including a failed one to unblock that path. XP penalty is definitely needed. I don't quite understand the 'it doesn't respect my time' argument on so many levels.. I think the potential fun to be had in escaping near death situations *because* death would mean a significant setback is much larger than the fun in having guaranteed level ups per x amount of time invested.
"a punishment for failure is time" No, it means that lvl 100 is gated behind good play. You can't just ignore the bosses, no life the rest and make it to lvl 100. That's way lvl means something too.
Insane take. Dude has broad knowledge on mechanics and how to actually accrue power in D4 and that intuition is transferrable to PoE2. Due to some of his damage mechanic videos I've figured out making my own builds and disregard all content creator builds, and I'm sure other CC's refer to his math and spreadsheets to optimize their own builds.
@PrimalDirective that's all well and good, but I don't care for people who talk like they are better than others even if they are. There are plenty of helpful build guides out there for new players. To each their own, though. If you like him, that's cool.
I do think mapping feels too bad/punishing on deaths. Losing the map mods, the stone, XP, and all the currency you used to upgrade the stone that you had to choose not to use on gear : /
Everyone is getting into PoE and PoE 2 because GGG has embodied the ARPG. these games feel like they are made with the same essence that made Diablo 2 good. They feel like the Blizzard of old we used to love. D4, and subsequently Blizzard feels like a hollow shell of corporate assets.
A few things as I'm halfway through the video. Feedback should be done through questionnaire and survey not the 1% of players making noise on internet as poe Andy's (I'm a poe Andy for like 10 years). Poe and last epoch make sure to keep updates away from same week. It's blizzard who will make it hard. Octavian started out as a streamer and played HC trade. His opinion is very valid I just wish sometimes mini introduction is needed. And a side note anytime I hear a new player in poe ask for guides I love it. Won't play poe but will play poe 2 cause of guides for the new meta build. Poe you don't need guides until endgame red tier map type stuff and even then the systems are very similar there are people who will play poe after 2 and find it enjoyable experience. Edit: put points into the map boss tree and you'll find out how hard bosses get in t18 maps 😂
GGG's biggest issue currently is that it's still using POE1 enemy structures in endgame. Flooding the screen with hasted mobs doesn't work with a slower, more intentional combat system. If this doesn't get addressed, we'll get back to POE1 levels of power creep before 1.0. I really hope they understand how devastating it could be continuing down this path.
They’ve turned the endgame into PoE1, where the slow and methodical campaign gameplay doesn’t translate well to the fast-paced endgame, which can be cleared with just one button.
Appreciated the different perspectives you guys had, the segment about GGG's vision is the most important in my opinion. People identify problems and devs find solutions to those problems according to their vision and objectives for their game.
Seeing MacroBioBoi on here now as well I hear Frostylaroo's voice "welcome back, you traitors" Seriously though I'm really enjoying the game so far (although some things that also kind of aggravating which will hopefully be smoothed out by launch).
Which changes are you hoping to see?
@@LeviathanD3 Great podcast btw.That's hard to say because some things seem to be baked into the core design and the developers probably won't change those. Like I think dodge should cost mana, but be able to i-frame everything. I also dislike how many attacks are very quick and not telegraphed well. However, things like skill balance are much more likely to be changed. I've made a dozen characters and had wildly different experiences with each one. I'll also be happy when more weapons and skills are added (although I realize that will make things more unbalanced again).
Exp loss is just part of the game. Using poe1 as an example, you will absolutely make gains through an entire day of grinding, even if you gained 0% experience. I would be very surprised if the same doesn't hold true for poe2. "Gotta be max level in softcore" is a very Diablo mentality...
Appreciated everyone’s perspective!
I'm hoping a lot of the dead ends in maps will eventually be filled with league mechanics lol
I highly recommend doing at least the campaign on Hardcore. It's incredibly rewarding and its fairly punishing.
Rolled a ranger yesterday! Slow going but still alive!
Sounds like D4 is macroboi go to, allot of whining it sounded but he’s not my favourite too begin with.
I think the Gemling is the most versatile ascendency in the game. I'm currently playing one as a minion build and it's fantastic. Macro's analogy of D2 to D3 is not at all the same experience mainly because D2 was Epic and D3 was and still is trash. And PoE1 and PoE2 are both amazing in their own right.
So Leviathan works for Blizzard right? I have not watched the whole video but I really hope and beg the D4 devs are playing PoE2 and I hope D4 gets inspired from them. Make combat slower and more meaningful, make boss fights that have cool mechanics.
He’s a janitor
Yes, he's a class designer at Blizzard.
Yea Leviathan is a Blizzard Employee and Macro is a at the very least Blizzard Partner, if not more who gets invited to all of things. I guess it will be interesting to see what they have to say about PoE2 however, it would be better if these things were disclosed upfront.
Yeah. And Diablo 4 is trash. Diablo 2 was one of the best games ever made. POE2 is far more like D2....
@@jonr7364In that case he can make sure they clean windows to stare out into the abyss for inspiration.
I’m liking what I’m playing so far.
I’m still stuck in Act 1 as a warrior and a monk but I just put it down when I get frustrated. I’m one of those who will need a good guide to progress.
I ragequit on Act 1 boss with my first character then tried some new characters. After having made over 10 characters, I have to say the skills are very unbalanced. It's not even the classes (although there might be some that are overall better than others) but individual skills. There have at least been some nerfs and a few buffs. Just be careful with meta builds bc some get nerfed, but yeah a guide is probably good if you're struggling. I'm kind of stubborn and want to figure out on my own, but it's not a very efficient use of time.
Hey, If you're melee try to get gear with regen. There are probably in the vendor. It's pretty strong early on. If you have 1 or 2 regen on all gear, ACT 1 won't be a problem.
Get cold resistance and some hp regen on your gear. Worry more about defense rather than offense. That boss can be a bitch for sure. Also boneshatter works good to blow up the adds in the fog circle part of the fight. Also your basic attack is really good early on. Make sure your best damage supports are in that skill for the boss fight. Don’t try to use rolling slam at all, it’s a death sentence. Good luck.
@@SuperLotus yes I figure its early access so I'm not stressing
@@thecasualexile123 thanks for the tip
fellow busted hands bro here - macro makes some great points about controller.
my big gripes:
- no ability to easily jump to mouse/keyboard for inventory nonsense between lots of playing/etc
- I actually dont mind the twinstick feel, but I am just not using the right stick since the auto-aim is mostly solid
-when autoaim prevents you from looting shit on the ground mid combat. let me hoover the items!
but yeah, otherwise this game is a dream to play for my busted carpal hands compared to last epoch.
good news: They said they wanted to make quick swap between controller and mouse cause they got feedback about it in their last playtest before release but couldn't get it done in time, it is definitely something they're working on, also looting in poe 2 feels a little strange even with mouse so hope they get that figured out, i've picked up far too many things i don't want so now i'm wishing for a good loot filter
Acolyte monk here. Got suckered by the same cool picture! On Tier 4s though and brand new to the game, so it can’t be too bad.
Just reroll. Invoker is miles and away better. I did the same thing and rolled acolyte for my first character. Rerolled and the difference is immense.
i don't get what xanth is talking about with chayula monk, the flames of chayula give all damage as extra chaos not just phys, it's not convert, it's damage as extra, i'm tearing through shit even tho 2/3rds of my damage is elemental when i pick up those flames, the real problem with it is the uptime and consistency of the flames which in aoe you solve with mantra of destruction and a good powerful aoe attack like falling thunder or the bell, when i fight bosses i deal an okay amount of damage when they summon adds i suddenly hit for 4 times the damage thanks to my flames of chayula, also i'm playing pillar of the caged god too just on my monk cause i wanted to use chayula
I was more referring to the leech aspect as opposed to the chaos. Would love a build link if you got it!
@@XanthXanth-j1z, ah yes the leech is definitely weird, but consider that the bell is like the biggest damage burst in the quarterstaff skills and is fully physical, either way i didn't pick up the leech nodes not am i planning to, the chaos res and the damage as extra chaos are just imo better.
I'm not really a build maker so my stuff is just a scuffed build i put together, i basically went out to the edge of the tree and made like a 240 degree semi circle picking up all the big attribute nodes and spaghettification, i literally have every node on the tree that gives increased attributes, defensively i went for armor and evasion so i grabbed the cluster at the bottom of the tree and that's basically where i'm at, the plan from here is good gear and eventually astramentis and the xesht int/dex stacking gloves for even more damage, this build is probably a more glass cannon version of the gemling stacker.
Also to generate flames you do mantra of destruction with the bell since it affects the entire bell and not just the impact, on bosses you just do normal monk stuff, put bell down and ring it
i know of another build by content creator noname, who is using the bell and basically farming TOTS cause he was a sanctum farmer back in poe 1, i haven't looked at it because i want to stay guideless as much as i can but he seems to be having success with chayula monk.
Super interesting to see people liking the endgame. I finally called it quits after a few t15 + 3 maps, and I was not enjoying that at all. I'd say 1-75 was pretty great, and then the gameplay experience and reward loop dropped off a steep cliff. Gonna pay attention though, cause I wanna see what feedback ggg takes to heart.
Im kinda confused by this podcast. Maybe its me being a first time listener but your guests complain about one shots and then also complain sbout monster speed and lethality. How exactly are you ever supposed to die then?
XP penalty exists to force that only the best players hit max level and the game doesn't require you to do that for pinnacle content. Maybe it should kick in later but I think its necessary to force players to make well rounded builds and hit skillful play. The fact that they cant see that makes me think they have no more authority on the game than the average Redditor.
I think this is a fair take for defending the XP penalty. Speaking at least for myself, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with an XP penalty on death in and of itself, but moreso that it stacks on top of other existing penalties for dying. I think we were more saying some part of the current death penalties should be eased a bit.
@@LeviathanD3 That's definitely fair. Personally I think the compromise is sitting back in POE1 - Just bring back 6 portals. If you can't complete a map in 6 deaths you don't deserve the league mechanics on retry and it solves the endgame boss problem of grinding for 100 hours to die to a boss and never see it again.
With them maintaining the six portals in POE2 already as well, that seems like the cleanest solution to me. Will be interesting to see what they decide!
@@ryanwidmer5311 I feel like with the recent patch they made maps already too easy for 6 portal defense. Like, what map would realistically kill you that often unless you run high tiers on your twinks?
Honestly I'd prefer what they had in mind with maps actually failing and blocking the path because what really feels bad is running a map again with less juice than you wanted to. I guess there'd also be room for a orb of horizon type currency to reroll any map including a failed one to unblock that path.
XP penalty is definitely needed. I don't quite understand the 'it doesn't respect my time' argument on so many levels.. I think the potential fun to be had in escaping near death situations *because* death would mean a significant setback is much larger than the fun in having guaranteed level ups per x amount of time invested.
"a punishment for failure is time"
No, it means that lvl 100 is gated behind good play.
You can't just ignore the bosses, no life the rest and make it to lvl 100.
That's way lvl means something too.
The dude on the bottom is an elitist know it all. Would never follow his build guide no matter how good he is.
😂 ill let Mac know he's an elitist. He'll get a kick out of it
Insane take. Dude has broad knowledge on mechanics and how to actually accrue power in D4 and that intuition is transferrable to PoE2.
Due to some of his damage mechanic videos I've figured out making my own builds and disregard all content creator builds, and I'm sure other CC's refer to his math and spreadsheets to optimize their own builds.
@PrimalDirective that's all well and good, but I don't care for people who talk like they are better than others even if they are. There are plenty of helpful build guides out there for new players.
To each their own, though. If you like him, that's cool.
I tried watching him play poe1 for the first time on twitch. Left after 5 mins, he was intolerable to hear talk.
I do think mapping feels too bad/punishing on deaths. Losing the map mods, the stone, XP, and all the currency you used to upgrade the stone that you had to choose not to use on gear : /
Everyone is getting into PoE and PoE 2 because GGG has embodied the ARPG. these games feel like they are made with the same essence that made Diablo 2 good. They feel like the Blizzard of old we used to love. D4, and subsequently Blizzard feels like a hollow shell of corporate assets.
love acolyte, full phys dmg with leech and loads of stun
macro based take maps are way too big, mostly pointless
Oh No! More Shills!
A few things as I'm halfway through the video. Feedback should be done through questionnaire and survey not the 1% of players making noise on internet as poe Andy's (I'm a poe Andy for like 10 years).
Poe and last epoch make sure to keep updates away from same week. It's blizzard who will make it hard.
Octavian started out as a streamer and played HC trade. His opinion is very valid I just wish sometimes mini introduction is needed.
And a side note anytime I hear a new player in poe ask for guides I love it. Won't play poe but will play poe 2 cause of guides for the new meta build. Poe you don't need guides until endgame red tier map type stuff and even then the systems are very similar there are people who will play poe after 2 and find it enjoyable experience.
Edit: put points into the map boss tree and you'll find out how hard bosses get in t18 maps 😂
Wait why am I listening to a controller player 😂