War on the Sea: Basic ASW Tutorial by Former Sonar Tech
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Hi guys! This video is aimed at the newcomers to War on the Sea who are probably coming from other games who've never been exposed to undersea warfare. I hope it sheds some light on what some of the values mean in the environmental conditions and how they play into performance of your sonar suite.
I need to clarify when I choose my depth charge setting I say I like to pick the "three pattern". It's not a pattern of three depth charges being used, it's a pattern that is repeated 3 times. I usually pick that because the more repeats in a single run, the less depth charge runs you can do because like other ammunition in this game, there is a finite supply of depth charges.
Another thing I should have talked about with the active sonar that I forgot to add was the importance of target aspect. If a submarine is coming directly at you or going directly away from you, you'll see a smaller profile of the submarine. If the submarine is perpendicular to you, then you're seeing a larger area of the submarine and this increases the chance that the active sonar will detect the target.
If you have any questions or need help finding submarines hopefully this can help and if you need clarification on anything please leave a comment below and ask away.
I am watching a few years after the posting of this vid, but I have to say it is so refreshing to watch and listen to someone who knows the terms and flow of actual US Navy ASW. I was an ASW focused OS/Warrant Officer for 28 years (1982-2010), 21 of that was at sea on FF/FFG/DD/DDG and I also LOVE ASW. I especially like your comment @17:03 about Active Sonar, we always joked that Active Sonar was the "Hey, Submarine we know you are here, now get the heck away from us mode." Always a last resort. This was an interesting and informative video to watch. Thank you.
Wow that’s awesome to hear about such a long career with ASW. I was on an FFG and DDG. It would have been awesome to have been in on a sprucan.
I don’t know if you follow naval games but eventually the people that made this game will be releasing their next title called Sea Power and it’ll have a lot of Cold War era ships, submarines, and aircraft. I’m looking forward to it but no date is set presently.
@@ryu1940 Yes, and I am really looking forward to Sea Power.
My dad retired 2016 with 26 years as a Senior Chief Sonar Tech. Started on Flying Fish (I think) then spent rest of the 90s and 2000s on Albuquerque and 2010s was on Dallas.
Loved going and seeing the Subs as a kid in Groton CT. Got to go out on a tiger cruise when I was 17.
I was also an OS but I was on a CG, I dealt mainly with SW, but obviously we all need to know ASW, and @ryu thanks for the video I needed the help
Happy to find a fellow sonarman on RUclips. Good luck with your channel, sir.
@@SubBrief thank you very much! My dad was a submariner ET1(SS) for 20 years then I joined as a skimmer ST lol you can imagine the banter we had back then.
Thanks for the tips with Active Sonar :)
I have been using passive & reducing speed (noise) but didn't realise how short range Active was
No problem I hope I helps!
Dude thank you so much! I’ve been struggling with this so much. Just hauling ass a little to fast was my issue. Thanks for helping me out
That’s awesome to hear man! I’m glad it helped and you got it sorted out!
Nice guide! A few additional tips for beginners, from my experience of WotS:
If you have external view enabled (or bring an aircraft) you can spot a submarine at periscope depth by looking for its silouette on the surface. It's especially visible in shallow waters. A bit cheesy but hey it works.
Lead is situational so you have to factor in relative speed, heading, depth and maneuvering. For a sub att max depth traveling straight at full speed I start dropping when the stern of my ship passes over the tip of the sub's bow (again, external/underwater camera helps if you loose contact, with experience you can estimate).
To increase the chance of quickly taking out a surfaced sub with guns, you can use manual fire (narrow spread), it's much more accurate from the first salvo since it doesn't seem to rely on building up a solution. If you got the time try to position yourself on the opposite side from the sub's deck gun (stay behind american subs, in front of japanese). Also, if in a larger task force you might want to disable auto gunnery. It was implemented in the game after this guide was made and will cause all your ships to fire on the sub if it surfaces. Nothing sucks like having your destroyer smashed by a stray shell from a trigger happy battleship.
I also tend to disable the evade hazards function, especially if hunting with multiple destroyers since that may cause the destroyer to turn when you dont want it to. Also unconfirmed, but it seems that destroyers may try to "evade" enemy submarines close to the surface.
Thanks for the tips! I just started the campaign today and I have been struggling with subs, it didn't take long to realize the value of destroyers! I have been using active sonar but I'll give the passive a shot and see if it makes a difference.
Thank you I’m glad it is helping you try some new things. I love destroyers even for surface warfare. I truly get the most fun in this game out of managing a destroyer squadron in action.
My other sonar video talks about the differences and key points between using the two types of sonar and that should also help.
@@ryu1940 " I love destroyers even for surface warfare. I truly get the most fun in this game out of managing a destroyer squadron in action"
Tameichi Hara style :)
@@antirussia8194 I had to look him up and I am glad I did. His book sounds right up my alley! Definitely have to pick it up and give it a read. Thanks for that!
@@ryu1940 Commander Hara's book is a true classic, definitely worth reading. If you are interested in a Japanese point of view to battle of Midway, I would also recommend "The Battle that Doomed Japan" by Fuchida Mitsuo & Okumiya Masatake. Banzai! :)
@@antirussia8194 sounds great! Thank you for the recommendations!
Thank you so much! I got so frustrated on the submarines.
Awesome I’m glad to hear it helped!
Very good tutorial, Thanks.
My pleasure!
Than you so much for your excellent ASW Tutorial. I am re-reading the Manual pror to playing this game. I also intend to re-play your vids. many times befur getting my feet wet.(so to say).
No problem! I’m glad it can be used as a helpful resource!
And if anyone wants to change ammuntion values you can easily do so by the following path: streamingassets/default/unit/sea Select the ship you want and you will find the ammunition value in the ship model text folder. Just use Ctrl+F and search ammunition.
I've been screening my task force movements with two single DD's and air spotting. Before I hit start, turn on sonar, set depth charges for 5x/5s, set speed to Full, and either a hard port/starboard turn. As soon as I see the torpedo wake I turn towards the direction the fish came from at full speed and slow to 12knts about 1 grid square from where I estimate the sub is. As soon as I slow I get a target contact. Adjust coarse to intercept and drop charges. That's all done with a single DD and 9/10 I sink the sub and it keeps them away from my task forces.
Very good job!
Great tips, thank you..
Thank you! I’m glad to hear it was useful!
@@ryu1940 just let you know I can now sink subs. 😀
@@nigelcollier301 awesome! Way to go! ASW is a lot of fun when you start wrapping your head around using the sensors and environment to your advantage. Glad to hear you’ve been successful!
I was an AWO on p8s. Good video, recently discovered this game and I’m loving it. Big fan of their other game cold waters
Awesome! I’ve only done exercises with P-3s as the P-8 wasn’t IOC yet back when I was in. I wish they made a modern remake of Dangerous Waters. That had really good ASW gameplay.
@@ryu1940 it does. It’s different being the one getting chased rather than doing the chasing 😂 def know to stay away from a udaloy 😂
@@ryu1940 as far as a modern one, I think it might be hard especially with alot of the technology for asw being classified, ranges and parameters wise
@@sailorchamp9752 yeah I can totally understand best guestimations for stuff like that. I thought Dangerous Waters handled it fairly well. I really liked that it had stations like the ASTAC (I think in the game they called it by its old name) so you could coordinate with air units in multiplayer.
@@ryu1940 is that on steam? Might have to check it out
Thanks for your tips on anti submarine warfare ... I was looking for a good tutorial like this and it worked me too 👍
Awesome I am happy to hear it helped you!
I was an STS myself. Good stuff
Nice I was an STG long ago haha. Glad you enjoyed the video !
Nice video
Just got this game lots of fun
Thank you!
I could be wrong but I don’t think World War II active sonar worked on the Doppler shift. I believe the sound waves just hit the target and bounced back whether the target was moving or not.
Yeah I’m not sure how it worked in real life but I believe in the game files doppler isn’t needed but certainly makes it more effective.
great video!
Thank you!
I really liked this video, now I can find the Uboats.
But when a Uboat is at say 270 ft. how do you set the depth charges settings (also seconds)?
I am glad that helps you! The depth charge depth settings appear to be automatic. The seconds is the interval between the repeating launch pattern. So say if you want to drop three intervals of depth charges you can set how many seconds you want between the next set of depth charges being launched
@@ryu1940 Ok, thank you. Then I did a very bad job last time. One CL and one DD emptied all the depth charges, but the sub got away.
@@hansolavwilhelmsen1451 No problem! It takes some practice. I usually use a 3 repeat pattern with 5 second interval. If you attack at 15kts and start dropping your depth charges when you are half way over the submarine you should score hits. If the submarine is deep you may need to drive further head of the submarine and start dropping when you are closer to going over his bow.
@@ryu1940 Yes, I wil try that next time, thank you!
@@hansolavwilhelmsen1451 No problem! Good luck!
I have spotted a sub by using ship radar. Maybe there was a radar return from the periscope? Now i always turn on ship radar as soon as an encounter begins.
What’s the chances of you running some sonar tutorials on Destroyer: the u-boat hunter? If you have that…
I tried the pre release demo long ago but the ship handling characteristics felt so off that I couldn’t really get into it and declined from buying it. Maybe in the future perhaps I’ll change my mind and give it a go.
Great tips, but from one sonar-man to another from subs. Destroyers have little chance to take down a good Submarine commander. Another tip: When a sub is surfacing in this game, don't have your destroyers sitting still! Speed and profile will save you repairs.
so, since the active depends of doppler, would it be advisable to have one of your ships in the line running it to detect closing torps or the sub if it is moving? or would another ship using active effect the rest of the ships's passive?
Not quite. I can see the thought process there but there are other things that also affect active sonar. The reasons affecting it negatively in this use case is the aspect. Most likely the torpedo is closing you and you’ve got a bow on aspect so it’s a small area for the ping to hit and return. Another problem related to this is that the torpedo is physically very small so you’re not going to get a return strong enough to discern it from the rest of the noise.
As far as I know using active sonar shouldn’t affect other ships using passive in the game.
Torpedo detection is usually pretty clear and easy on passive sensors. You can imagine a torpedo has the main goal of going as fast as possible to the target so it doesn’t do much of anything to acoustically mask its signature. The small prop spinning at high rpms create a lot of bubbles which are very noisy and easily detected. Passive detection is the way to go.
Been playing the scenario for a few weeks and have had trouble killing subs even after watching this video. Today I went to the underwater view and watched the depth charges drop all around the sub and go way deep. How do I adjust the automatic depth settings?
I'm not sure that is possible in the game so far. It is automatic. I'm not sure what determines how close the detonation depth is set versus the target submarine's depth. Perhaps it is tied to your solution percentage? I just don't know unfortunately.
@@ryu1940 Thank you for replying so promptly. I will run some tests and see if the solution % has any bearing on it.
@@jimshafer970 no problem! I’d be curious to see what you find out!
Hey, why you dont see torpedos on minimap?
This was made a long time ago so it’s likely things are different now in game.
Thanks!
My pleasure !
i bought the game 3 days ago and so far i've started 3 new campaigns and longest i've gotten on a campaign was 4 days i kept making a new one everyday cuz of submarines keep destroying my fleet
If you’ve got a carrier fleet it’s better for survival to keep it out in open waters as opposed to restricted waters near land. When a submarine engagement starts, have your heavier important vessels like cruisers, battleships, and carriers immediately steer away. Take your destroyers and form them into a group then drive them towards the direction the shot came from.
You can also change the formation of your ships. I usually always make sure my most important ships like the carrier are in the middle of the formation and the destroyers are on the outside when they are sailing around.
As a 3 year active sonar tech I still can’t use these😂
Lol
Is there a downside to having your active sonar on? Your passive sonar guy will still be able to listen passive sonar. On top of that you will hear the return pings from active sonar if any.
It does not appear to work that way in game.
Is it just me, or did localizing subs in this game just get insanely hard or impossible a couple patches ago? I have jumped ambushing subs several times with 2 destroyers, backtracked their torp wakes at 5 - 7 kts and not gotten so much as a momentary whiff. I think I'm up to 10 times now. Thoughts?
I haven’t played recently because I’ve been away from my PC but I usually sprint down the torpedo bearing initially.
I imagine immediately after the sub fires he’s likely going to turn away some direction at a max of 8-9kts (I’ve never observed a sub make more than 9kts submerged) so you’ll want to be significantly above that speed if you want to close it. I’d sprint 20-25kts some distance towards where the sub likely shot from then slow down to start the search.
Again keeping in mind the max speed of the sub is likely 8-9kts submerged so if you’re going under that speed, and even pointed correctly at the sub, he could still be out running you if he’s maneuvering to open your searching DDs (I say open in terms of TMA geometry relative to your vessels).
With multiple DDs you can sprint one to the spot you might have localized where the shot came from while the other DDs sprint further onward in a direction that the sub likely would try to open you guys. Picture this like throwing out a net, it’s fast and covers distance when you first throw it. As it sinks it’s slow and snags anything caught underneath.
So for example if the torpedo attack came from the west I would send one DD to sprint to the estimated spot I’d guess the shot came from. I’d have another sprint further on down that bearing incase the sub was farther than expected. I’d send my third DD to try the right or left flank of the spot I estimated the sub to be incase the sub tried to slink away sideways instead of turning away completely.
As with the others I’d have the ship sprint to that spot as well then slow down to search. If it turned up dry, it would sprint to the other flank then slow and search.
This of course is all harder than it has to be because the game lacks any sort of map annotation. If you knew the max speed a sub could go, you can plot a circle based on the distance it can cover over a certain time period. That gives you a good idea of where you should focus your search efforts because the sub physically can’t be anywhere else in that moment of time. So hopefully one day they add map tools!!!!
I don’t want to insult you if this is really basic and knowledge you already have from other sims or real world application I apologize in advance! The concept of opening or closing geometry is like you’re in a car directly behind it both going 50 mph. As long as both go the same speed and direction, you’ll never get closer to that car.
Now that same car slightly turns 10 degrees to the left and you still go the same direction. Both of you are going the same speed but the range between you guys is now opening because of his course change.
So the submarine being limited in speed is given an advantage if he’s running from you at 8kts and you’re heading towards him at 5-7kts. If you continue on like that you will never catch up to him. If he turns away from you and you’re no longer pointed right at him, the range will increase at an even greater rate making it harder for you to detect him.
Your best asset is your ability to draw upon your speed at will. The sub is stuck at a max speed that is so slow compared to what a DD can make. If you slow down and can’t pick up anything, sprint further up the line then slow down and see if you can hear anything. The submarine can’t do much about you using the speed to your advantage.
I hope that helps some! If you already knew that then disregard, hopefully it’ll help others!
@@ryu1940 no insult and I get it. So 10 kts is an overmatch speed. Do we know how good our passive is at that speed? Can I search effectively at that speed or must I slow down to listen? I was already sprinting to torpedo origins, but figured once In the area I needed to slow way down for passive performance. If I can keep it at 10-12 and still hear them that would be great. Does the game truly model passive performance as a curve?
@@pnzrldr I don’t know because the game doesn’t explain that specifically in the manual but I can say from experience that I usually always search at 10-12kts in Japanese DDs. I will slow down further if the environmental conditions are particularly bad. If the conditions are too bad where I’m finding I can’t maintain above 8-10kts for a reliable search, I just break off the engagement. Speed is the most effective weapon so when that gets neutered because the environment is too noisy then it’s time to break away and try again later.
In real life sonar systems have a sort of best ASW speed and it is the best speed to performance middle ground. I haven’t seen anything concrete in the game files yet on what speed bands effect the sonar performance but I know they must be in there because above 12-15kts the passive performance seems to drop off significantly (to almost none at all even on days you have huge duct strength values).
@@ryu1940 Yeah, I'll keep trying. KF need to do a lot of things to make this game more fun, even though they do have a pretty solid basis. I wish we could somehow go back to the good ol' days where designers released (relatively) completed products. Feel like we paid for an advanced Alpha on this. So much more info needed to really understand, and a LOT of energy should be focused on taking some of the stupid repetitive stuff off the players, so we can focus on making decisions and having fun. Still, it has some really cool content. Maybe they'll get it right eventually.
I need a tutorial not a manual this game is cheap
A tutorial like this video or something different?