DAN DENNETT AT HIS BEST
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- In this interview with Bill Moyers, Dan Dennett delivers a sharp and clear synthesis of a library of evolutionary, anthropological and psychological research on the origin and spread of religion.
Composer John Adams bit.ly/Us4NWp
Mythologist Joseph Campbell bit.ly/1epLzuo
Dan Dennett @ wikipedia bit.ly/1aUcBro
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Dennett is such a badass.
I think Bill did a fantastic job too. Yes he's religious, and yes he was somewhat oppositional to Dan, but he kept it very civil and did a great job of articulating the objections and concerns of the moderate religious side, giving Dennett an excellent platform to express his ideas. Fantastic interview.
Indeed, a great interview. Dennett's replies are good, but so are Moyers' questions. You seldom see such a professional interviewer who's able to express his own views in a manner that doesn't stifle the discussion.
+apinakapina I think this is generational. People don't know how to discuss anymore. I don't only mean facebook/Ipad generations but the younger ones too.
I was deeply impressed by there civility, and cool headedness.
I could have sat and listened to these two talk all day, and get the impression they could have as well.
It seems to me at least they where genuinely enjoying the conversation.
Bill Moyers is maddening.
Moyers: "But God is beyond science"
Dennett: "Of course he is. Because that is how you have defined it."
God is a parlor trick - not a real thing.
it's not even a parlour trick....it is just bullshit....
John Bloomfield Parlor tricks are actually impressive. They require some skill. Anyone can just make some shit up.
Sweetshamam: Apparently you don't get it that throughout this interview Moyers raises the objections of Dennett's critics, so that Dennett can respond to them and explain.
I liked the host, he's been polite and didn't entrench in his views. The way Dennett and him debated should be an example or everybody: no personal accusations or any low blows, just a reasonable flow of opinions and theory.
sweetshaman It's confusing how people will then try to argue scientifically Religion.
I could walk into any cathedral in England and be deeply moved by it, because of its history, its culture, its architectural brilliance. I would get a similar feeling in a castle or any great historical building, nothing to do with religion.
+Dewayne C
Indeed the Parthenon is a beautiful building but I won't be offering sacrifices to Athena.
+omigodponies well said
+Dewayne C That's because all that stuff is the expression of the soul.
when you have good taste in Shinobu and are intelligent 10/10
***** non-existant that's what lol
Really like Dennett's ability to articulate religious hypocrisy without insulting people who are religious -
Dat is de enge manier om en echt gesprek te krijgen. Er is immers geen verschil tussen de wensen van gelovigen van ongelovigen!
He addresses everything straightforward and in a calm manner. If all parents and teachers talk like this then children might actually listen and understand.
That would really be a utopia
actually, the majority of parent don't (and don't want others to) talk to their children in a "straightforward and in a calm manner". They brainwash and permit others to brainwash their children about religion. That's the only reason why old religions survive: brainwashing through generations.
This is my introduction to Dan Dennett.....please excuse my ignorance!!! He is a brilliant ...... and I'll get onto published works ASAP.
Love this guy. He represents atheists even better than Sam Harris. Respectful, level-headed and understanding.
+Francis Dakis Sam Harris is embarrassing with respect to religion.
Sam Harris is on more of a militant approach. Which angers a WHOLE LOT of people.
Nai Xo I'd say that's a closer description of Dawkins than Harris.
Tarik LaCour, I'm going to ask you why, but with the caveat that you're not allowed to use the words, "bigot" or "racist" or "hateful" or "islamaphobe". So here goes: why?
I don't think that Harris is a bigot or any of the other words you say. He takes a very fundamentalist reading of scripture as though that is how all members of a religion engage scripture. He is too smart for that, he needs to engage with the best minds in religion.
Playing the faith card needs to be taken off the table. Brilliant way to state this!
A very intelligent discussion on both sides. It doesn't happen very often.
"I think we have to stop honoring people for stopping thinking."
Now THAT is my kind of riff. :) Thanks for posting. :)
I watched the whole interview and like Daniel Dennett even more now than when I first started, which I didn't think was possible!
To those who are criticizing Moyers, please realize he is trying to be a devils advocate here. He isn't necessarily putting his own view forward, but rather, provide a rational and calm voice for the people who disagree with both Dennett and myself.
I commend him for doing such a great job at doing this and Dennett of course was absolutely brilliant here.
Excellent talk by Dan Dennett, one very smart cookie.
Didn't know Denett was this brilliant. The articulation of ideas was just superb: "This is a bad pun. This isn't something they all believe in ."
What do they believe in ?
"They believe in belief. They believe that belief in god is so important that you should never think of abandoning it even if it meant changing the meaning of god so much that it is unrecognizable to everyone else"
I love his approach. He gets the message across without being quite as polarizing as Hitchens. Faith vs. Lucille was a gem. I also love the term "enforced ignorance", when he was speaking to toxic religions. Very intelligent man who is very well spoken. I hope his mindset becomes far more widespread.
Scott Russell
Well,...you can hope in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first before Jesus arrives.
This is a great interview! Great questions by Bill Moyers and wonderful answers by Dan Dennett.
Dan is such a cool guy. I love his books and his lectures.
Also, hats off to the interview for asking excellent questions, and actually waiting for the answers. Getting flustered makes many interviews and debaters seem weak.
Rest in Peace Dan, I'll never forget the impact you've made on my life
Likewise with me. He was truly one of a dying breed and a monumental loss.
Indeed.
@@joshuacolumbus How can you live as an atheist?
As I count, two of the four horsemen are now gone.
This guy is a boss. So eloquent and polite yet poignant!
I don't think anyone was surprised that Dennett likes Christmas *cough* Santa *cough*
I just love Dan Dennett. Focusing more on the important things.
A "disturber of the peace" he says? Certainly the most peaceful disturber I have ever seen.
Thank the lord I am an atheist.
Ha ha
Great ideas, excellent interviewer, a valuable thought stimulater. Thanks for posting.
This is a great conversation. Dan Dennett is really good... so is Bill Moyers!
Brilliant talk.
Dennett is one of the philosophers which are really worth reading. We need more of such intellectuals in the world.
Don't like the term "Bright". I've met dumb atheist and intelligent theist. Some people don't put too much thought into their faith, and others spend much time thinking about it. I do like Prof. Dennett though. So much of what he says is profound and easily understood.
Ewan B That is an interesting question. I'm not sure I agree. An inteligent theist may vey well have thought the situation. I think sometimes…openning that door to rejecting "the story" causes so much turmoil. Looming family issues regarding child rearing and then every family réunion can cause one to say…what will it hurt…I'll just tow the line. I'm guessing a very large pêrcentage of American Christians…if alone in a room with one million dollars on the line…does God exist? They would say no but the go one living like a Christian because it's easier. Ask Creationists (the Senator from Georgia) is the earth 4.7 billion years old or 8000 years old…life or death….: I'm guessing 50% of Creationists even know better. They are scared to simply making the plung in life. In most Red States…coming out an Atheist is not to be taken lightly. It can have major reprecussions in your life. Coming out Atheist in Texas is probably harder than coming out Gay in most countries of the western world.
ive met some angry gay people too. the point is your changing it from the literal meaning lol
That 'Lucille' line was great!
A true modern sage...
May I suggest another reason why most of us feel a sense of awe when entering the Chartres cathedral (or many other architectural masterpieces of all cultures). The architects and interior designers were brilliant and knew the kinds of decorations and elements that "sing to the human heart". The light from the stained glass windows, the curvature of the interior spaces, the heights, the carvings all speak to us, whether we understand a particular religion or not.
How ironic that he actually looks like god
i'm getting more of a santa claus is pissed at jesus vibe.
Nah, he looks exactly like Charles Darwin and I think he's doing it on purpose.
?????!!!!!
When I watch this video...it's as though Dennet is organizing and articulating and defending all of the ideas we have on religion ... far better than most of us could.
Moyer keeps making the emotional argument for god. "how can you not be moved by a religious hymn or when you enter a beautiful cathedral?" Humans are emotional creatures and we are moved to emotion when experiencing a number of things.
That neither proves god or validates religion.
Marty Richards It doesn't if you're looking to make a sound case for the existence of a god. Because you have an emotional response to a Harry Potter movie doesn't mean its real.
Marty Richards Look no doubt that emotional experience can be powerful. It just doesn't prove god. That's all I'm saying. I think many religious people believe they have a sound case for god and believe very strongly in:
a. anti-abortion legislation
b. anti-gay legislation
c. anti-public school movement (home school)
d. creation "science"
e. anti-science legislation (trying to refute evolution)
f. climate change denial...think James Inofe "god is still up there" so we're okay nonsense.
Marty Richards I understand your points Marty and you make a lot of sense. I would also remind you that for many flocking to religion helps them overcome their universal fear of death....with religion providing its magic escape pod at the end of your life. I would also say that for many they have the anticipation that god is a loving, caring force for good in the world and that he answers their prayers and may even intervene in their lives.
Marty Richards Yeah I agree with you about creativity and maybe the yearning to achieve something permanent (or at least that lasts longer than we will) as a marker that we were here and as a contribution (depending on what it is) to the greater society.
Daniel Dennett is such a change of pace after watching Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, and Krauss talk about religion.
Good host, good questions.
If Daniel Dennet was at his best it's because Bill Moyers was the interviewer. Bill always seems earnest in his quest for knowledge and understanding
There has never been an hour in Bill Moyers' life in which he's been more dumbfounded.
Excellent interview. Dan Dennett has more heart than I have ever given him credit for.
'Bright' is a pretty supercilious but also condescending term
Yeah I hate it to
I can't see it ever catching on. I'd add to your excellent description by also calling it meretricious.
Which is why I like it
It's better than "indigo children," if not by much.
Just think about every powerful person: a politician, a president, even a dictator. And imagine their minds being as Daniel Dennet's. The Earth would be a much better place.
; Religion does pick one's pocket, as it is granted tax-free status, and there isn't anything in the First Amendment granting a tax-free status to belief, and it does break bones, e.g., 11 September 2001, and all suicide bombers, and all inquisitions.
Fantastic interview. The sense that comes out of Dennet's mouth is remarkable.
Dan is such an unlikely guy. Checks all the boxes that a sane person would, but claims atheism. It even sounds completely legitimate when he says it.
I'm sorry I haven't heard someone like him earlier. I enjoy listening to him.
It's cause it is legitimate... Atheism isn't insane.
*****
I don't think that atheism is insane, merely unlikely. Atheists, on the other hand usually have some sort of burden hindering their mind. Dan here has no obvious mirages.
Petar Stamenkovic
Don't adherents to a specific religion also have a specific burden on their mind? They tend to presuppose the religion of their upbringing is correct.
***** Of course. Humans in general do.
I find that following any one religion, or simply believing in the creator without the need to follow any one religion is better than not.
Simply believing that you have supreme good guy has your back in your endeavors to be good like him, shows. It affects the way you think and act, and it shines through your daily routine.
it sounds sane and reasonable because it is.
There is someone to thank and one day you'll be able to show your gratitude. Lean not to your own understanding.
Mindblowingly awesome! One of the best conversations I have ever had the privilege of witnessing.
I'm an Atheist my wife's an Atheist, my sons are Atheist and we all LOVE CHRISTMAS! If you just added up the amount of money we spend on gifts you would have to shake your head. We also tried our best for the longest time to keep our kids from discovering that Santa Claus was a real treat. Our Atheist family embrace Christmas to the extent that makes everyone think that we are Christians. Even our lifestyle is so straight with our participation with the schools that our kids went to and our involvement and the number of friends we collected from our kids school associations and all the volunteer work which was fantastic & rewarding. We look so normal everyone thinks we are Christians. We are not Christians but we sure the heck are humanist and we would give you that impression if all you did was observe our lifestyle.
I really appreciate the way he describes religion as a natural phenomenon and rejects the idea that theist are simply 'programmed' to believe in God. I think this type of understanding would help theists and non-theist/atheists to be less 'polarized' (their choice vernacular) and for those who oppose religion to regard and address those who are religious in a less condescending manner- as many often do. Dan Dennett, I believe you are on to something!
Bill Moyers uses a "beginner's mind" technique when interviewing anyone, which is why he is so good at it.
Dennett is maybe the most towering figure of our times!!!
Well spoken and intelligent Christian journalists? That is a rare phenomenon. If only more journalists would mimic this one!
I have new respect for Bill Moyers! Fantastic interview!!!
Dan Dennett teaches me the reasons that it's OK to talk to Christians, and I've found that really hard to do till now.
Dennet is a genius. He is the only one of the 'prominent atheists' that has a deep understanding of how and why the society needs and craves religion. He's gone past the 'it's absurd' phase long ago. His thoughts about saccharine and sugar are pure gold.
What a wonderful thoughtful interview. Really enjoyed watching this.
Yeah say what you will but his logic and arguments are pretty solid. He is certainly a very smart guy
AND he is the GREATEST philosopher of mind and has published the greatest content on consciousness!
That term "bright" makes me wince every time I hear it.
One of the Horsemen. Need more Dennetts in the world.
"In my religion, I experience gods directly..."
1. What do you gods look like?
2. What do they sound like?
3. Do they speak English?
4. What do they tell you?
5. Can you demonstrate your "direct interactions" with these gods to someone else?
I love this interview. Dan Dennett is a genius..Bill Moyers tests his beliefs rather well, although, any atheist today can see Bill's religiosity.
So civil!
Though he probably shouldn't have said questionably true things about intelligent people of faith. I think that its hard for him to know what he claimed about them.
Only 2 analogies I heard and neither was especially bad. The sugar one he could have probably done without.
"Sally is always right" was perfect, short and obvious.
And the host was marvelous, a guy that actually read the book and went through it with pen and highlighter. It was clear that he was asking questions for the benefit of the audience a good portion of the time, since he would have already read Dennett's answer.
DD articulated the case brilliantly. He comes across so much better being respectful as he is here, rather than the smug vibe he seems to give off when talking about consciousness.
One thing he doesn't mention about cathedrals is how their design has also evolved over time. Starting from the simplest chapel, architects will have selected those features from the churches they've seen that move them in that way. The awe-inspiring gets selected and the uninspiring dies out.
My only regret is that I have only one thumbs-up to give to this video.
Even though I'm a muslim, I have great respect for this man. Able to discuss rationally and an articulate speaker.
Of all the atheists I've ever listened to, and of all debates I've observed, this one by Mr. Bennet happens to be to mot enlightening so far. Other philosophers like Hitchens and Dawkins tend to be more intellectually aggressive making their points, Dennet on the other hand manages to keep cool and very much convincingly humble using very effective arguments that dig deep in the very functioning of some human processes never setting a direct two sides battle between the different positions. His poise doesn't also betray possible book marketing moves: he's just a highly deductive, very cultivated person who can make his points strong through well built discourse.
This interviewer is a consummate professional. There isn't a lot of journalism like this any more. My hat is off to you.
Fox news, eat your heart out.
I always though Bill Moyers was a more independent thinker than he appears to be here unless he's playing the devil's advocate (and well too). Bravo for Daniel Dennett for persisting and for so kindly and open-heartedly understanding others' beliefs whether he agrees with them or not. A true philosopher and one who provides an excellent role model for everyone! (A Canadian who studies and writes philosophy, but, more importantly, who is an active citizen who stands up and is being counted.
What a wonderful interview, it's great to see a rational man discuss the issues in such an insightful and (dare I say it?) comprehensively useful way.
Faith = the acceptance of a "truth" based on insufficient evidence is not a virtue. Being faithful may or may not be depending on what one is faithful to.
Pure genius. Religion is a spiritual narrative. I think there are good biological explanations and sociological explanation for why we need religion. It just so happens the logical and practical religion that we need in this world today does not exist yet. I hope a couple centuries a new religion around Eastern thought will emerge.
this interviewer is an outstanding journalist.
dan dennet is such a saint. no pun intended.
hes just such a cool and smart man
I love Dan Dennett!
if i learned to routinely express my ideas half as clearly as Dennet does here, id be very proud
what a refreshing interview. tx for the upload.
That beautiful feeling in Cathedral is caused by a very beautiful architecture(stained glasses and lightening)and an amazing music plus the Epic fiction :D
A very interesting discussion. Most thought provoking.
The awesome thing about being right is that you don't have to resort to changing the subject and insulting your opponents when you've lost the argument.
Thank you for this - fascinating and refreshing. I'm off to hear more from Mr. Dennett.
The human need for continuity, for ceremony, for ritual, for camaraderie, and for reason is deep and profound. Religion answers all of these necessities. The Logic of Religion's foundation, a being or beings who are deeply interested in your personal life and moral character cannot be sustained.
The problem with organized religion is not only the organization, it is the religion itself in that in deludes and deceives people. The organization helps to spread and enforce it.
Dan Dennett's an awesome man. One of the 4 Horsemen along with Hitchens, Harris and Dawkins.
It's sort a cool that he makes a barf bag like Rose look good. He exudes a kindness that comes from his wisdom.
I really like how Dennett doesn't oversimplify religion as all-bad as many public atheists do. I love the credit he gives to faith-intitutions in the civil rights movement especially. I also love how he challenges people of faith to never say "the thought ends here" or "here I hold my ground- reason can go no further." I think that kind of thinking is a really great way to make terribly-informed political decisions.
thing is though, where does it say in the bible that black people should be free? Hell the bible doesn't seem to have any kind of problem with slavory. The only way to use Christianity for something good like civil rights is by neutering the religion.
Why did you choose the word neuter?
Such longing arises from an evolutionary cognitive impulse in the human mind that we, at present, only vaguely understand.
in my country in Scandinavia we learn all religions... I in my stoned state of mind I though that all civilised countries did that
In the Netherlands it is done too, like in Scandinavia. But very sparsely. Furthermore we have that unique (and expensive) system that every denomination (religious or not) can be fundend by the government to start schools. It is in our constitution. The only way out of this is to go to public schools, which unfortunately are often (not always) very good. There are good reasons for that, but I will not go into that here. Too long a story, too controversial.
I love that he says "As soon as I though about it seriously...I became an atheist"
I feel that most adults should come to the same conclusion!But we all know that's not the case!
+Michael Speth Absolutely agree! No one said that just because one is an atheist, everything else comes into light!
Wow, I'm very impressed by Dan Dennett. He seems very sincere and open minded. It is so sad that simplistic Naturalisic Philosophy has destroyed his faith.
At least in this interview, he seems much less arrogant than most atheists I've talked to and have heard.
I agree. I can't think of an existence without some sort of law defining interactions. But in some ways I think induction and intuition can only get us so far. We need more data.
Daniel Dennet is an atheist worth listening to. I'm not an atheist, but Dennet is a spot on, sharp thinker who challenges the status quo.
"How do we create institutions able to inspire the love of the people?"
With a responsible, free and humanistic education and giving even more importance to schools in our society, one cultivated citizen is so much more useful to society than one who's not.
Ignorance is the chief enemy of human kind.
You are quite right that it is an unanswered question in physics whether quarks could possibly be composite particles, and if string theory is correct, everything is made of 10-11 dimensional strings. However, there is currently no evidence whatsoever that this is the case. It's not impossible and our ability to probe the structure of elementary particles will improve and may show something new.
Wow Daniel Dennet has been saying what i've been saying for years, that god is not a group concept its more of an individual experience. That in a sense isn't not even called god or some kind of belief. I too think that church is some of us not all of us. To question everything is good even the entire universe around you without persecution or doubt. Its very freeing.
Another thing I took from this video - and I hope I'm reiterating this in a manner which he would approve;
Understanding beauty does not diminish it.. or it's power to move you.
wow that sweet tooth analogy was great very good comparison i thought.
I could just hug Dan
The preacher-jazz musician metaphor was brilliant. Freestyle improv around some well-known chord changes, leaving out the licks that don't work well.