That is a journey that many have entered into, myself included. If you’ve not already done so, do read Metropolitan Ware’s “The Orthodox Church” and “The Orthodox Way” - these remain among the essential guides for converts to the Ancient Faith from other expressions of Christianity. Familiarization with the liturgy is essential - the Divine Liturgy and Vespers should be often before your eyes as you seek God’s will in this calling. There are several excellent commentaries available that explain the deep theology and symbolism lying behind the content and structure of the services. All this is intended to provide an orientation towards what the Orthodox Church is and does, which those who grow up in the Church acquire during childhood. We have some catching up to do, regardless of our Christian upbringing! There is no substitute for direct personal experience - the Orthodox invitation is to “Come and See.” And make an appointment to meet with your local priest, when the time is right - he will guide you along this path and answer all your questions with sage advice and patience. (I can say this with great confidence, as priests of the Orthodox Church are overwhelmingly kind, spiritual, and wise in the ways of God. Some jurisdictions are, perhaps, more attuned to the needs of converts than others; much has to do with the composition of the parish, but conversion is now hardly a new phenomenon in the West.) I will pray for you, brother. May God lead you in all things according to His perfect will.
I am the only Protestant-turned-Orthodox in my family. Some family members are more understanding than others. Sometimes it can be a struggle. But it’s worth it! Truth is worth it!
This is an incredibly valuable video. I grew up as a Protestant but converted to Eastern Orthodoxy six years ago, and when I left the Protestant/Non-Denominational movement I found myself torn between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Several Catholic apologists brought up the essence-energy distinction as matter of contention, and made claims about St. Gregory Palamas, which caused confusion. This video does a great job of explaining the essence-energies distinction which really was a stumbling block for me in the beginning. God bless you and your channel!
@@iliya3110 Palamism is not welcome in Catholicism. A Catholic is bound to follow the unanimous agreement of the Fathers, and the Fathers were unanimous in teaching Divine Simplicity, not palamism. Palamas taught a blasphemous doctrine about God, and it is blasphemous to call him a "saint".
@@CatholicSedevacantist You’re confused in two ways. One Orthodoxy teaches Divine Simplicity but not the Absolute Divine Simplicity of Catholicism where God’s actions (and hypostases even) are erroneously collapsed into His Essence. Secondly, St Gregory Palamas is a Catholic saint commemorated on the 2nd Sunday of Lent in the so-called Eastern Catholic Chuches *approved by Rome*. Therefore you’re saying Rome has taught and judged that blasphemy is okay as this is a matter of faith and morals, something you are not permitted to believe as a Roman Catholic. I have realized Roman Catholicism is heretical and schismatic since I wrote my last comments you replied to. I’m Orthodox.
Pray for me to become orthodox im 16 and go to liturgy as often as I can which isn’t much please pray for my journey and that I’ll become a catechumen often I feel discouraged that I won’t ever receive holy communion or get confession please pray for me brothers in Christ ☦️
Hey brother, God loves you, I’m sorry that you feel so destroyed. I promise it’s not true!! Tell that lie to STOP in the name of Jesus! There’s a promise in all of this, you’re not at the end of the story. Find better friends and be vulnerable with somebody.
I was raised Pentacostal and about a two years ago I started becoming more devout. And then a few days ago I started to believe in apostolic succession. And had been flip flopping between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. One thing I've always struggled with is Immaculate Conception. In-fact, that was what originally made me have such a staunch anti-Catholic sentiment growing up. And I just recently discovered that Orthodoxy rejects Immaculate Conception. Which I thought was great but then I found out about the essence-energy distinction and tried to read about it but was, frankly, rather confused(I always get lost when reading about things where half the argument is in another language lol). But after watching this video it not only helped me understand the concept but, interestingly enough, made me realize that this has always been my understanding of the knowability of God. I really appreciate this video and it has definitely helped push me even further towards Orthodoxy. It's still something I have to seriously consider in all aspects, but this seems to be the right choice so far. God bless you, brother.
@@IsaiahINRI I wouldn't joke about praying for anybody. I can hardly take your statement as sincere when you preface it with “lol.” The doctrine of the Trinity (DT) is demonstrably false. It's rather sad that they who leave the Apostolic faith fail to examine their new faith with the same scrutiny they applied to their previous one. Three distinct persons are three *different* persons, which of course means that there is a real difference between them. On one level or another, an adherent is forced to affirm some kind of composition in the Godhead, which, of course, forces a logical condtradiction.
@@davidcoleman5860 Oh I'm not joking about praying for you. I prayed for you right after commenting that. I put "lol" because you assumed I ever rejected the obvious dogma of the Trinity. Even when I was a Pentacostal I wasn't a non-Trinitarian because such a belief blatantly contradicts scripture in many ways. The Trinity is clearly attested in Scripture and readily available in the earliest Christian writings. I would encourage you to actually look into the dogma before you say it's contradictory because it very much is not if you actually understand what is being said. There is no way to understand Scripture from a modalist or any other non-Trinitarian perspective without blatantly contradicting it. The RUclips channel Scholastic Answers goes through the Church Fathers' writings on the subject and explains what that means. He actually just uploaded a new video about The Trinity.
@@IsaiahINRI Then my apologies for assuming you were a Oneness Pentecostal. People who leave our faith normally use the terminology you do, so I made a hasty assumption. That said, rest assured, I very much understand the doctrine of the Trinity. As a former Southern Baptist who has read Augustine, various church fathers, Aquinas, Scotus, Craig, White and Dolezal (and a host of theologians and philosophers), I'm very familiar with the various doctrines of the Trinity. And I find it interesting that you allege contradiction in non-trinitarian views, whereas we see the doctrine of the Trinity (DT) as fraught with unintentional logical contradictions on several levels. As stated, if the persons are really distinct, then they are really different. So, unless an adherent affirms that each person is a complex of the divine and the creature, then the difference is in the essence itself. The principle of commonality (PC), which makes each person God, is necessarily different from the principle of distinction (PD), which makes them different. For if the PC = PD, then we are saying that the persons are different but alike in every way, which is absurd. In other words, the very thing which makes them alike is also what makes them different (C = ~C) which is a straight logical contradiction. That formula can only work in a composite being, but since all composite beings are caused and dependent, that model cannot work for God.
What is the difference between created effects and energies? I would have interpreted the former as energies too (i.e.. actions, powers, involvements in the world, etc.).
Despite the compelling idea of a God who leaves behind elements of his being that we are able to experience, this explanation still has buried within it the idea that we can define God as having some particular characteristics. The response will be that, no, God leaves aspects of himself for us to experience and that is what we know. But there is no escape from the overarching model of God that portrays him in a particular way and having particular characteristics, irrespective of whether God leaves behind elements of himself for our discovery or not. So ultimately, it doesn't seem to me that this approach provides an escape from the unknowability of God despite its claims otherwise.
“No man is truth, wisdom, justice; but many are partakers of truth, wisdom, and justice. But God alone is exempt from any participating: and anything which is in any degree worthily predicated of Him is not an attribute, but His very essence” (Pope Leo I, Letter 15). “His greatness is the same as His power, and His Essence is the same as His greatness” (St. Augustine, On the Trinity, Book VII). The list goes on and on, of the fathers that taught contrary to the teachings in this video. Question: EED is said, by some, to be a dogma of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Are there any dogmatic statements on this that I may read? I’m not sure where to look.
The mystery of God is the mystery of the Uncreated Eternal Life Who is Ecstatic Love! Christianity isn't meant to be about a distant transaction between us and God! It is a transformational fullness of Life! It is about experiencing the fullness of Christ's mystery! Such an experience is really crucial in order to truly Know the Uncreated God! Only the Uncreated is Immortal and the cause of life and immortality! It follows that isolating anything created from its Creator causes the process of its erosion! That process is reversible which means redeemable only by communing with God's Uncreated energies! It's about Theosis in the Orthodox Theology! It's about a transcendental transformation by experiencing God's Uncreated energies. The protestant and roman catholic theology denies that the created may commune with the Uncreated God by denying God's Uncreated energies! Nevertheless, our life cries out for fullness! We won't experience Life that is Life to the full, unless we experience the Eternal! Experiencing the Eternal is not about daydreaming! Experiencing the Eternal is about living for real by experiencing God Who is Life to the full! Certainly, the divine essence is God as He is in Himself, unknowable not only to man but to any created intellect. However, the divine energies (such as Love) are God as He manifests Himself eternally and as He gives Himself to be shared by creatures in time. Through this distinction you may defend the possibility of a real participation in the divine life without implying or endorsing pantheism. According to 1 John 4:8 "God is Love", which means that: God the Father is Love! God the Son is Love! God the Spirit is Love! God the Father manifests Himself as Love through His Son in His Holy Spirit! God the Son manifests Himself as Love from His Father in His Holy Spirit! God the Holy Spirit manifests Itself as Love from the Father through His Son! Of course, we could never commune with God's essence but we may commune with God's Uncreated energies by experiencing the Divine and human person of Christ! Jesus Christ the Son of God, by uniting man and God in His own one person, reopened the path for all people to have union with God. By participating in His Mystical Supper, our bodies are literally implanted with His resurrected body! His precious Blood is literally transfused to our veins! Our souls are literally united with His soul! His Divinity is literally infused into us! This way we partake of His Uncreated Divine Energy that is of His Father and of His Spirit! Thus we may experience the Uncreatedness of the Eternal Life by God's Will, through His Son's Grace, in His Spirit Communion! We experience the Eternal Love and Life Who is God the Trinity! You are always welcomed to experience the mystery of God's Love in the Orthodox Church! May God's Life be your Life, so that you may experience Life that is Life to the full! God bless you and Live for real!
A total of six synods were held in Constantinople on 10 June 1341, August 1341, 4 November 1344, 1 February 1347, 8 February 1347, and 28 May 1351 to consider the issue of the distinction between the Uncreated Essence and the Uncreated Energies. Collectively, these councils are accepted as having ecumenical status in the Orthodox Church.
@@dimitrispeiraias thank you very much. I’m not EO, by the way, but I’d like to represent the EOC correctly and I remain open-minded. Do you, by chance, know of a website which has the declarations of these councils (in English)?
This makes sense but I’m confused on one issue. When we receive the Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of our Lord in its full divinity and humanity are we partaking in the essence or energies of God? Since Christ, the 2nd person of the God head is present in the chalice wouldn’t we have to affirm there also is the Essence of the Godhead? Could someone explain this simply im no theologian just trying to be a good Christian thanks
You are right. 1.) God’s Divinity is perfectly united to His humanity, and cannot be separated. 2.) His Divinity is His Essence. 3.) His flesh is in the Eucharist. 4.) His flesh is His humanity. Conclusion: We partake, therefore, in God’s Essence, as the fathers have said.
A bit of an outsider, but Lutherans have said that 'Christ, according to His Glorified Humanity, consumes our corrupt flesh producing His incorruptible flesh,' or more simply 'we are united and partake in the person of Christ according to His Glorified Humanity, not according to His Divine Nature ' So united with the person of Christ but not the Nature/essence of the Trinity.
Keep in mind that the divine essence is God as He is in Himself, unknowable not only to man but to any created intellect; the divine energies (such as Love) are God as He manifests Himself eternally and as He gives Himself to be shared by creatures in time. Through this distinction you may defend the possibility of a real participation in the divine life without implying or endorsing pantheism. According to 1 John 4:8 "God is Love", which means that: God the Father is Love! God the Son is Love! God the Spirit is Love! God the Father manifests Himself as Love through His Son in His Holy Spirit! God the Son manifests Himself as Love from His Father in His Holy Spirit! God the Holy Spirit manifests Itself as Love from the Father through His Son! Jesus Christ the Son of God, by uniting man and God in His own one person, reopened the path for all people to have union with God. Jesus Christ the Son of God is literally alive! Christ is risen and the human race is risen! Christ is in our midst! He was and is and ever shall be. Living the Orthodox Church is about experiencing the divinity and humanity of Jesus Christ by joining His mystical body where He feed us on His own Flesh and we quench our thirst for life with His precious Blood! By participating in His Mystical Supper, our bodies are literally implanted with His resurrected body! His precious Blood is literally transfused to our veins! Our souls are literally united with His soul! His Divinity is literally infused into us! This way we partake of His Uncreated Divine Energy that is of His Father and of His Spirit! Thus we may experience the Uncreatedness of the Eternal Life by God's Will, through His Son's Grace, in His Spirit Communion! We experience the Eternal Love and Life Who is God the Trinity! May God's Love be your Life, so that you may experience Life that is Life to the full! God bless you and Live for real, my friend!
I need some more clarification, if anyone can help. We have relationships all the time with people and come to a genuine knowledge of them. Why is it not the same with God? Why is this essence-energies distinction needed? I can come to know a painter by his paintings but they are not imbued with his energy. Also, we have the Holy Spirit who reveals the depths of God to us directly in our spirit.
@@Theoria Okay that makes sense. So does that mean we can only know God by His actions? Also, i don't want to keep asking questions and wasting your time. So could you direct me toward good sources to read on this. Thanks
@@TheSwordofEngland we know God through his energies (which are God himself) but we do not know him by essence. A good, short read on this is Basil the Great’s work Against Eunomious. Against Eunomius (Fathers of the Church Patristic Series) www.amazon.com/dp/0813201225/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_6T1CTQ99YVHNHWJ0SSP2
All we can know about a person is through what they do and say. You may get close enough to a person, such as your spouse, to know things about them they themselves do not know, however this is still through observation of their actions and words. Our relationship with God is the same. We cannot know nor comprehend the inner workings of the Trinity, but only experience the actions of our Creator.
@@aaronjones2815 Well, God can teach you things about Himself. I don't disagree with what you are saying. But you don't just get to know someone by what they do. They can tell you things about themselves. Unless you consider that an action.
So then going your logic for example Paul as he said he got in him the energy of God col 1:29 you mean the essence of God got in Paul.How we can avoid pantheism then?
I think the truest depiction of God comes through panentheism. It highlights the need for participation and direct contact with Him. It also neatly sidesteps some theological sticky points. It is not about dogma but real connection.
Participating in God's Life but not His Essence is a contradiction. Participating in the Divine Nature is participating in the Divine Essence. I don't see how you can reconcile actual Divinization with this idea that we cannot participate in Who God actually Is. After all: "God became man so man could become God."
That is pantheism. Actually Paul shows energy ενέργεια οf God or in the δύναμις power.even Peter that uses the word Φύσις Nature shows by the δύναμις power
The essence of God is only common to the three persons of the Holy Trinity.we participate in God by his divine uncreated majestic energies. The energies of God are actually God operating
@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας No, we participate in God Himself through the Beatific Vision. "For we shall see him as he is." This is not a full comprehension of God, which is logically impossible for any creature. But it is a true participation in God's Essence.
My understanding is that when Christians practice contemplative prayer and reach infused contemplation or divine union or theosis, they know God experientially, not theoretically through images of thoughts, feelings or memory. That knowing experience is with the Spirit or the Word, not the Father or his energy. Apparently the soul could not live if it were to see God the Father, but the soul can live seeing the Word or Spirit because they also veil that Essence of God that they share with God. It seems to me the concept of God's energy is unnecessary. We can see the Essence of God, not naked, but veiled, and still live. We may in fact need to see and know the Essence of God veiled in order to live. Are you saying the veiled Essence of God that is experienced in contemplative prayer, theosis or theoria is God's energy? Is that a distinction that needs to be made?
The Word and the Spirit share Father's One Essence. The Divine Essence is solely common to the Persons of the Trinity. Direct experience of the Divine Essence necessitates communing with the Essence of God. By misrepresenting the Divine Essence as communicable to creatures, you endorse polytheism or even pantheism. This way the Trinity is distorted.
Through the distinction between the Uncreated Essence and the Uncreated Energies, you may defend the possibility of a real participation in the Divine Life without implying and endorsing polytheism or pantheism.
It seems to me that God's energy or activity that we experience is the same as God's creative action. So when we experience God's action or energy, it is an experience of creation. It is a veil between us and God's Essence. God's Essence is God. God's energies are creative actions that we, created beings, may experience as creation. The light in Hesychastic practice or the experience of divine union in contemplative prayer could be called energy of God, action of God, or a created experience from God. The terms are synonymous. However, the contemplative's noetic mind is experiencing God behind a thinner veil. The veil is a created phenomenon via the energy or activity of God put between God and the contemplative. The Logos wore a veil, Jesus' humanity, a created body of flesh and blood. People could see and touch him and be healed despite the Essence of God being present, which, if unveiled, would have consumed them. The Spirit wore a thinner veil of fire and wind, pillars of smoke and fire, Shekhinah behind the veiled tabernacle, which people could see at a distance but not touch intimately until after Jesus' death and resurrection at Pentecost when the Spirit too was intimately experienced as the Comforter. Jesus gave us access to the 🔥🌪 of God that Adam lost. It seems to me, here as flesh and blood, we experience God behind a dense veil, of created activities or energies of God, like seeing the effects of the wind without seeing the wind. However, the contemplative gets to experience God as fire or light through a thinner veil by his noetic seeing that strips away layers of veils between him and God's Essence. God's Essence thinly veiled is the Spirit. God's Essence unveiled is the Father. God's Essence thickly veiled is the Incarnation. The Incarnation tempers us and leads us back to the Spirit. The Spirit enlivens us and leads us back to the Father. We can touch the Incarnation and get healed. We, healed, can then gaze on the Spirit and live. We, healed and living, in the after life, can enter into the tabernacle, its veil having been torn by Jesus' torn flesh. We in the flesh wear a thick veil and see the created actions of God. The noetic contemplatives or hesychists wear a thinner veil of light and see more of God's Essence. However, the veils of the saints in heaven are torn between them and the Father and only the Spirit surrounds or veils them. But they have also eaten the Bread of Life, consumed the sacrificial Lamb, believed Word of faith dwelling in them. Having the protective Spirit of God without, surrounding the soul, hovering, like over the void at creation; and having the sustaining Son of God within feeding the soul or filling that void in the soul, we may then dwell in the unveiled tabernacle or bosom of the Father and not die ever.
The supposed experience of the Divine Essence through created grace puts our trust in a creation. In such a case, the gap between a supposed created grace and the Essence of God is infinite. This leads to abstention from any real experience of God, which is applied atheism.
Well, the “analogy” you offer of our inner life, which is unknown to others, and our “energies” is that of a composite being. Clearly, creatures are composites, and that's what enables that kind of distinction. So, your example doesn't appear to be an analogy at all; it appears to be entirely equivocal. Moreover, though it is understandable that as it is supposed that the persons of the Trinity do not divide the essence, so the energies cannot divide it either, really distinct persons _do indeed_ divide the essence, albeit unintentionally.
why were greek words used without defining them.. the average non-orthodox person will not understand them and think it is some technical mumbo jumbo.. pls keep the theologically illiterate in mind while making these videos.
The “theology” series will utilize technical terminology and will thus be of a higher rhetorical / theological caliber. Other series’ encompass similar truth but brought down more to the common vernacular
@@johnnyd2383 I know these words I was thinking of average non-orthodox person who might not get it because these videos do seem to be greared towards evangelising. I'm sorry if my concern sounded like whining to you. I just want the true faith to be understood by outsiders.
Lutherans translate the terms to 'nature/work' to talk about the same things, if I understand this video rightly. However essence and energy are English words, but you're right to want to check meanings because energy is synonymous with electricity and with magical power (in different contexts).
I have one problem. What about the nature of solipsism? If God can't be known in it's essence, then that means that there will always remain a degree of indepence for both of us, and that there will never be true love or the sharing of the whole being. Another thing is that we are not trully equal to God, we don't have the same powers as Him or the same ability to express. We are limited. There are too many contradictions and to many limitations and roadblocks. It seems as tho reality itself is limited and so is the one who created it. I'm saying this as an agnostic who wants to see the truth, but I simply can't when there are too many contradictions. I may be saying all of this out of ignorance, but things are not easy when there are paradoxes. You can't have any expectations for anyone to understand if you are not understandable. All of which leads to absurdity and you may as well just not care anymore about truth and relativize everything since there's no set way that is truth. Which already is happening in the form of marxism and wokeness.
@Prescott Interesting argument. So you say that the only one we see as equal would only be ourselves. However if we see someone as equal, by extension we will see ourselves equal and accept still only us as equal as it is our standards that have been met. So love would then require not total dependability but partial? Very interesting example with the mother and the child. Indeed, there will always be a discrepancy between the two in terms of power. I think that love is neither about independence nor dependability. It's about the acquirement of independence through partial dependability. That is you are able to became independent in this life and just like your parents, but that is because of them in the first place. In this way I also think that it's the fact that they became more powerful because they had more power to make you independent as well. Equal power can't make for independent agents but only a higher power. Yes I also agree with the fact of nihilistic programming. But we don't have a framework everything is tailored towards destruction and not on building things. So we can't go against the wave since we don't have a cohesive structure in place to act as a counter force to that. I also see what's happening in this world and it is bad. However I don't see how the bad can validate the good. That is I don't see why would there need to be pressuring to prove the good in the first place. But thx anyway for the response.
Human nature can be united to divine essence without human nature becoming divine essence. Thats literally what the incarnation is. Eternal life is uniting to God without us becoming divine. Hence, "divine energy" is an unnecessary middle-man. And in terms of revelation, the Word of God (Jesus Christ) reveals God to us, not "divine energies".
The human nature in union with the Word God is a Hypostatic union on his own Person .The person of the Word God become flesh.so Jesus Christ is one person the Word God with two natures the divine and human. That is the union by Hypostasis. Only to Lord Jesus Christ.
@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας Paul says nothing about "uncreated divine energy". Theology is not keyword search. The concept of divine energy puts an unnecessary and unbiblical middle-man between us and God. Scripture says the Holy Spirit himself would be with us, not some "uncreated energy".
@@LMN579 yes he does .first he shows the word δύναμις power synonyms with the word energy ενέργεια.see. The verses original language text 1cor.6:14 for δύναμις power and in col 2:12 ενέργεια energy.
@@LMN579 them go to Romans 1:20 that says for the δύναμις power it Θειοτης meaning Deity and there in the original language text is also the word αίδιος for δύναμις power. That word in greek show the uncreated it mean more them eternal.
![Are Icons Idols? [Responding to J.I. Packer's Iconoclasm]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Akkb_EsY4MM/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm 18 years old and I'm seriously considering joining the orthodox church, my whole family is protestant. Please pray for me! 🙏
That is a journey that many have entered into, myself included. If you’ve not already done so, do read Metropolitan Ware’s “The Orthodox Church” and “The Orthodox Way” - these remain among the essential guides for converts to the Ancient Faith from other expressions of Christianity. Familiarization with the liturgy is essential - the Divine Liturgy and Vespers should be often before your eyes as you seek God’s will in this calling. There are several excellent commentaries available that explain the deep theology and symbolism lying behind the content and structure of the services. All this is intended to provide an orientation towards what the Orthodox Church is and does, which those who grow up in the Church acquire during childhood. We have some catching up to do, regardless of our Christian upbringing! There is no substitute for direct personal experience - the Orthodox invitation is to “Come and See.” And make an appointment to meet with your local priest, when the time is right - he will guide you along this path and answer all your questions with sage advice and patience. (I can say this with great confidence, as priests of the Orthodox Church are overwhelmingly kind, spiritual, and wise in the ways of God. Some jurisdictions are, perhaps, more attuned to the needs of converts than others; much has to do with the composition of the parish, but conversion is now hardly a new phenomenon in the West.)
I will pray for you, brother. May God lead you in all things according to His perfect will.
@@DpHsHd Thanks! I really appreciate your words!
Got your back buddy! Let us know if you need some support or advice
@@evangelus3289 Thank you so much! I'll let you know if I have any questions
I am the only Protestant-turned-Orthodox in my family. Some family members are more understanding than others. Sometimes it can be a struggle. But it’s worth it! Truth is worth it!
That was the best summary of the essence/energy distinction I’ve ever heard. Keep it up, you’re videos will help inquirers and cradle orthodox alike.
This is an incredibly valuable video. I grew up as a Protestant but converted to Eastern Orthodoxy six years ago, and when I left the Protestant/Non-Denominational movement I found myself torn between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Several Catholic apologists brought up the essence-energy distinction as matter of contention, and made claims about St. Gregory Palamas, which caused confusion. This video does a great job of explaining the essence-energies distinction which really was a stumbling block for me in the beginning. God bless you and your channel!
Thank you!
@@iliya3110 I noticed that about Thomism specifically w the recent pints with aquinas episode lol
@@iliya3110 indeed it is! And thank you!
@@iliya3110 Palamism is not welcome in Catholicism. A Catholic is bound to follow the unanimous agreement of the Fathers, and the Fathers were unanimous in teaching Divine Simplicity, not palamism. Palamas taught a blasphemous doctrine about God, and it is blasphemous to call him a "saint".
@@CatholicSedevacantist You’re confused in two ways. One Orthodoxy teaches Divine Simplicity but not the Absolute Divine Simplicity of Catholicism where God’s actions (and hypostases even) are erroneously collapsed into His Essence. Secondly, St Gregory Palamas is a Catholic saint commemorated on the 2nd Sunday of Lent in the so-called Eastern Catholic Chuches *approved by Rome*. Therefore you’re saying Rome has taught and judged that blasphemy is okay as this is a matter of faith and morals, something you are not permitted to believe as a Roman Catholic. I have realized Roman Catholicism is heretical and schismatic since I wrote my last comments you replied to. I’m Orthodox.
Pray for me to become orthodox im 16 and go to liturgy as often as I can which isn’t much please pray for my journey and that I’ll become a catechumen often I feel discouraged that I won’t ever receive holy communion or get confession please pray for me brothers in Christ ☦️
How’s it going?
rather return to Scripture
@@traesaint9328 scripture proves the church
Hey brother, God loves you, I’m sorry that you feel so destroyed. I promise it’s not true!! Tell that lie to STOP in the name of Jesus! There’s a promise in all of this, you’re not at the end of the story. Find better friends and be vulnerable with somebody.
This is a brilliant idea, just remember, Scripture is the safest option, because it always promotes Christ! The winning side.
These short videos are dense with knowledge. Thank you. God be with you. 🙏
I've been struggling to understand the Energy/Essence distinction for a long time. This video helped a few things finally click!
Wonderful!
I was raised Pentacostal and about a two years ago I started becoming more devout. And then a few days ago I started to believe in apostolic succession. And had been flip flopping between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. One thing I've always struggled with is Immaculate Conception. In-fact, that was what originally made me have such a staunch anti-Catholic sentiment growing up. And I just recently discovered that Orthodoxy rejects Immaculate Conception. Which I thought was great but then I found out about the essence-energy distinction and tried to read about it but was, frankly, rather confused(I always get lost when reading about things where half the argument is in another language lol). But after watching this video it not only helped me understand the concept but, interestingly enough, made me realize that this has always been my understanding of the knowability of God. I really appreciate this video and it has definitely helped push me even further towards Orthodoxy. It's still something I have to seriously consider in all aspects, but this seems to be the right choice so far.
God bless you, brother.
Well, it's disappointing to read that you've abandoned the Pentecostal faith for something as blatantly contradictory as the Trinity.
@@davidcoleman5860 lol. Praying for you
@@IsaiahINRI I wouldn't joke about praying for anybody. I can hardly take your statement as sincere when you preface it with “lol.” The doctrine of the Trinity (DT) is demonstrably false. It's rather sad that they who leave the Apostolic faith fail to examine their new faith with the same scrutiny they applied to their previous one. Three distinct persons are three *different* persons, which of course means that there is a real difference between them. On one level or another, an adherent is forced to affirm some kind of composition in the Godhead, which, of course, forces a logical condtradiction.
@@davidcoleman5860 Oh I'm not joking about praying for you. I prayed for you right after commenting that. I put "lol" because you assumed I ever rejected the obvious dogma of the Trinity. Even when I was a Pentacostal I wasn't a non-Trinitarian because such a belief blatantly contradicts scripture in many ways. The Trinity is clearly attested in Scripture and readily available in the earliest Christian writings. I would encourage you to actually look into the dogma before you say it's contradictory because it very much is not if you actually understand what is being said. There is no way to understand Scripture from a modalist or any other non-Trinitarian perspective without blatantly contradicting it.
The RUclips channel Scholastic Answers goes through the Church Fathers' writings on the subject and explains what that means. He actually just uploaded a new video about The Trinity.
@@IsaiahINRI Then my apologies for assuming you were a Oneness Pentecostal. People who leave our faith normally use the terminology you do, so I made a hasty assumption.
That said, rest assured, I very much understand the doctrine of the Trinity. As a former Southern Baptist who has read Augustine, various church fathers, Aquinas, Scotus, Craig, White and Dolezal (and a host of theologians and philosophers), I'm very familiar with the various doctrines of the Trinity. And I find it interesting that you allege contradiction in non-trinitarian views, whereas we see the doctrine of the Trinity (DT) as fraught with unintentional logical contradictions on several levels.
As stated, if the persons are really distinct, then they are really different. So, unless an adherent affirms that each person is a complex of the divine and the creature, then the difference is in the essence itself. The principle of commonality (PC), which makes each person God, is necessarily different from the principle of distinction (PD), which makes them different. For if the PC = PD, then we are saying that the persons are different but alike in every way, which is absurd. In other words, the very thing which makes them alike is also what makes them different (C = ~C) which is a straight logical contradiction. That formula can only work in a composite being, but since all composite beings are caused and dependent, that model cannot work for God.
Absolutely beautiful. Glory be to God.
Man, this was done really well.
Thanks!
This is an outstanding presentation!
Thanks!
4:20 is one of the major issues. I'm glad he mentioned it.
Good quick break down
Beautifully explained! Thank you!
Christ has Risen ☦️❤️ orthodox
Thank you Brother for this!🙌
☦️Very good explanation 🌹
Thank you for this! Succinct and impactful. The analogy with the inner unknowable world of the human person, was helpful to me
Just a question, if the energies proceed from the essence, doesn’t this mean the energies are dependent on the essence?
Love your videos. Thought provoking and moving.
What is the difference between created effects and energies? I would have interpreted the former as energies too (i.e.. actions, powers, involvements in the world, etc.).
The effects are the results of uncreated energies allways the energies of God are uncreated ,because they are God himself operating in each energy.
NT in the original language uses ενεργηματα ενέργεια energies energy .
Can you recommend a primer on the Eastern Orthodox understanding of divine simplicity?
Would you say that interacting with the scripture is interacting with the Word of God? Or is it the energies of the Word of God?
You could check out Andrew Louth’s “Introducing Eastern Orthodox Theology”
Despite the compelling idea of a God who leaves behind elements of his being that we are able to experience, this explanation still has buried within it the idea that we can define God as having some particular characteristics. The response will be that, no, God leaves aspects of himself for us to experience and that is what we know. But there is no escape from the overarching model of God that portrays him in a particular way and having particular characteristics, irrespective of whether God leaves behind elements of himself for our discovery or not. So ultimately, it doesn't seem to me that this approach provides an escape from the unknowability of God despite its claims otherwise.
“No man is truth, wisdom, justice; but many are partakers of truth, wisdom, and justice. But God alone is exempt from any participating: and anything which is in any degree worthily predicated of Him is not an attribute, but His very essence” (Pope Leo I, Letter 15).
“His greatness is the same as His power, and His Essence is the same as His greatness” (St. Augustine, On the Trinity, Book VII).
The list goes on and on, of the fathers that taught contrary to the teachings in this video.
Question: EED is said, by some, to be a dogma of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Are there any dogmatic statements on this that I may read? I’m not sure where to look.
The mystery of God is the mystery of the Uncreated Eternal Life Who is Ecstatic Love!
Christianity isn't meant to be about a distant transaction between us and God! It is a transformational fullness of Life!
It is about experiencing the fullness of Christ's mystery! Such an experience is really crucial in order to truly Know the Uncreated God!
Only the Uncreated is Immortal and the cause of life and immortality!
It follows that isolating anything created from its Creator causes the process of its erosion! That process is reversible which means redeemable only by communing with God's Uncreated energies!
It's about Theosis in the Orthodox Theology! It's about a transcendental transformation by experiencing God's Uncreated energies.
The protestant and roman catholic theology denies that the created may commune with the Uncreated God by denying God's Uncreated energies!
Nevertheless, our life cries out for fullness! We won't experience Life that is Life to the full, unless we experience the Eternal!
Experiencing the Eternal is not about daydreaming! Experiencing the Eternal is about living for real by experiencing God Who is Life to the full!
Certainly, the divine essence is God as He is in Himself, unknowable not only to man but to any created intellect.
However, the divine energies (such as Love) are God as He manifests Himself eternally and as He gives Himself to be shared by creatures in time.
Through this distinction you may defend the possibility of a real participation in the divine life without implying or endorsing pantheism.
According to 1 John 4:8 "God is Love", which means that:
God the Father is Love!
God the Son is Love!
God the Spirit is Love!
God the Father manifests Himself as Love through His Son in His Holy Spirit!
God the Son manifests Himself as Love from His Father in His Holy Spirit!
God the Holy Spirit manifests Itself as Love from the Father through His Son!
Of course, we could never commune with God's essence but we may commune with God's Uncreated energies by experiencing the Divine and human person of Christ!
Jesus Christ the Son of God, by uniting man and God in His own one person, reopened the path for all people to have union with God.
By participating in His Mystical Supper, our bodies are literally implanted with His resurrected body! His precious Blood is literally transfused to our veins! Our souls are literally united with His soul! His Divinity is literally infused into us!
This way we partake of His Uncreated Divine Energy that is of His Father and of His Spirit!
Thus we may experience the Uncreatedness of the Eternal Life by God's Will, through His Son's Grace, in His Spirit Communion!
We experience the Eternal Love and Life Who is God the Trinity!
You are always welcomed to experience the mystery of God's Love in the Orthodox Church!
May God's Life be your Life, so that you may experience Life that is Life to the full!
God bless you and Live for real!
Council of Blachernae the synodokon of Orthodoxy the 1872 synod the confession of Dositheos and the liturgy
Also that Quote from Leo is against the soul being part of the divine being against the principalists. Try reading the whole letter mason
A total of six synods were held in Constantinople on 10 June 1341, August 1341, 4 November 1344, 1 February 1347, 8 February 1347, and 28 May 1351 to consider the issue of the distinction between the Uncreated Essence and the Uncreated Energies. Collectively, these councils are accepted as having ecumenical status in the Orthodox Church.
@@dimitrispeiraias thank you very much. I’m not EO, by the way, but I’d like to represent the EOC correctly and I remain open-minded.
Do you, by chance, know of a website which has the declarations of these councils (in English)?
Thank you. I'm low IQ and this is thr first time I've been able to grasp this concept.
Thank you for commenting! It’s a great encouragement to hear that this helped!
Good explanation!
This makes sense but I’m confused on one issue. When we receive the Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of our Lord in its full divinity and humanity are we partaking in the essence or energies of God? Since Christ, the 2nd person of the God head is present in the chalice wouldn’t we have to affirm there also is the Essence of the Godhead? Could someone explain this simply im no theologian just trying to be a good Christian thanks
You are right.
1.) God’s Divinity is perfectly united to His humanity, and cannot be separated.
2.) His Divinity is His Essence.
3.) His flesh is in the Eucharist.
4.) His flesh is His humanity.
Conclusion: We partake, therefore, in God’s Essence, as the fathers have said.
A bit of an outsider, but Lutherans have said that 'Christ, according to His Glorified Humanity, consumes our corrupt flesh producing His incorruptible flesh,' or more simply 'we are united and partake in the person of Christ according to His Glorified Humanity, not according to His Divine Nature '
So united with the person of Christ but not the Nature/essence of the Trinity.
Keep in mind that the divine essence is God as He is in Himself, unknowable not only to man but to any created intellect; the divine energies (such as Love) are God as He manifests Himself eternally and as He gives Himself to be shared by creatures in time. Through this distinction you may defend the possibility of a real participation in the divine life without implying or endorsing pantheism.
According to 1 John 4:8 "God is Love", which means that:
God the Father is Love!
God the Son is Love!
God the Spirit is Love!
God the Father manifests Himself as Love through His Son in His Holy Spirit!
God the Son manifests Himself as Love from His Father in His Holy Spirit!
God the Holy Spirit manifests Itself as Love from the Father through His Son!
Jesus Christ the Son of God, by uniting man and God in His own one person, reopened the path for all people to have union with God.
Jesus Christ the Son of God is literally alive! Christ is risen and the human race is risen! Christ is in our midst! He was and is and ever shall be.
Living the Orthodox Church is about experiencing the divinity and humanity of Jesus Christ by joining His mystical body where He feed us on His own Flesh and we quench our thirst for life with His precious Blood!
By participating in His Mystical Supper, our bodies are literally implanted with His resurrected body! His precious Blood is literally transfused to our veins! Our souls are literally united with His soul! His Divinity is literally infused into us! This way we partake of His Uncreated Divine Energy that is of His Father and of His Spirit!
Thus we may experience the Uncreatedness of the Eternal Life by God's Will, through His Son's Grace, in His Spirit Communion!
We experience the Eternal Love and Life Who is God the Trinity!
May God's Love be your Life, so that you may experience Life that is Life to the full!
God bless you and Live for real, my friend!
@@dimitrispeiraias thank you. This explanation helped me understand. Very good
I'm glad to hear that the explanation was helpful.
God bless you my friend!
Is it wrong to say that we can know God meaningfully but not exhaustively?
Can't wait! God bless.
I need some more clarification, if anyone can help. We have relationships all the time with people and come to a genuine knowledge of them. Why is it not the same with God? Why is this essence-energies distinction needed? I can come to know a painter by his paintings but they are not imbued with his energy. Also, we have the Holy Spirit who reveals the depths of God to us directly in our spirit.
Energy is also called action. The painter paints as an action
@@Theoria Okay that makes sense. So does that mean we can only know God by His actions? Also, i don't want to keep asking questions and wasting your time. So could you direct me toward good sources to read on this. Thanks
@@TheSwordofEngland we know God through his energies (which are God himself) but we do not know him by essence. A good, short read on this is Basil the Great’s work Against Eunomious. Against Eunomius (Fathers of the Church Patristic Series) www.amazon.com/dp/0813201225/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_6T1CTQ99YVHNHWJ0SSP2
All we can know about a person is through what they do and say. You may get close enough to a person, such as your spouse, to know things about them they themselves do not know, however this is still through observation of their actions and words. Our relationship with God is the same. We cannot know nor comprehend the inner workings of the Trinity, but only experience the actions of our Creator.
@@aaronjones2815 Well, God can teach you things about Himself. I don't disagree with what you are saying. But you don't just get to know someone by what they do. They can tell you things about themselves. Unless you consider that an action.
Where did you find that book by Met. Kallistos Ware? I can’t find it anywhere for sale online
It's a journal article.
The debate about Palamism
Ware, Kallistos. (1977) - In: Eastern churches review vol. 9 (1977) p. 45-63
@@Theoria thanks!
rejecting ADS makes no sense to me tbh
Спасибо за видео, очень хорошо!) Помоги Бог!
❤❤new sub
Excellent video.! Congratulations and may God reward you for your good works and deeds, past, present and future.
I believe the energy of God is his essence. I also believe that it is the light of God that is virtually distinct from the divine essence
So then going your logic for example Paul as he said he got in him the energy of God col 1:29 you mean the essence of God got in Paul.How we can avoid pantheism then?
I think the truest depiction of God comes through panentheism. It highlights the need for participation and direct contact with Him. It also neatly sidesteps some theological sticky points. It is not about dogma but real connection.
Very clear and simple. God bless you!
Participating in God's Life but not His Essence is a contradiction. Participating in the Divine Nature is participating in the Divine Essence. I don't see how you can reconcile actual Divinization with this idea that we cannot participate in Who God actually Is. After all: "God became man so man could become God."
That is pantheism. Actually Paul shows energy ενέργεια οf God or in the δύναμις power.even Peter that uses the word Φύσις Nature shows by the δύναμις power
The essence of God is only common to the three persons of the Holy Trinity.we participate in God by his divine uncreated majestic energies. The energies of God are actually God operating
@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας That is St. Athanasius of Alexandria. Accusing him of pantheism is unwise.
@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας No, we participate in God Himself through the Beatific Vision. "For we shall see him as he is." This is not a full comprehension of God, which is logically impossible for any creature. But it is a true participation in God's Essence.
@@matthewpaolantonio4003 well cant see what you say im the original language of the greek speaking fathers
Excellent. Thanks you again and may God bless you. ✝️
My understanding is that when Christians practice contemplative prayer and reach infused contemplation or divine union or theosis, they know God experientially, not theoretically through images of thoughts, feelings or memory. That knowing experience is with the Spirit or the Word, not the Father or his energy. Apparently the soul could not live if it were to see God the Father, but the soul can live seeing the Word or Spirit because they also veil that Essence of God that they share with God. It seems to me the concept of God's energy is unnecessary. We can see the Essence of God, not naked, but veiled, and still live. We may in fact need to see and know the Essence of God veiled in order to live. Are you saying the veiled Essence of God that is experienced in contemplative prayer, theosis or theoria is God's energy? Is that a distinction that needs to be made?
The Word and the Spirit share Father's One Essence.
The Divine Essence is solely common to the Persons of the Trinity.
Direct experience of the Divine Essence necessitates communing with the Essence of God.
By misrepresenting the Divine Essence as communicable to creatures, you endorse polytheism or even pantheism.
This way the Trinity is distorted.
Through the distinction between the Uncreated Essence and the Uncreated Energies, you may defend the possibility of a real participation in the Divine Life without implying and endorsing polytheism or pantheism.
It seems to me that God's energy or activity that we experience is the same as God's creative action. So when we experience God's action or energy, it is an experience of creation. It is a veil between us and God's Essence. God's Essence is God. God's energies are creative actions that we, created beings, may experience as creation.
The light in Hesychastic practice or the experience of divine union in contemplative prayer could be called energy of God, action of God, or a created experience from God. The terms are synonymous. However, the contemplative's noetic mind is experiencing God behind a thinner veil. The veil is a created phenomenon via the energy or activity of God put between God and the contemplative.
The Logos wore a veil, Jesus' humanity, a created body of flesh and blood. People could see and touch him and be healed despite the Essence of God being present, which, if unveiled, would have consumed them. The Spirit wore a thinner veil of fire and wind, pillars of smoke and fire, Shekhinah behind the veiled tabernacle, which people could see at a distance but not touch intimately until after Jesus' death and resurrection at Pentecost when the Spirit too was intimately experienced as the Comforter. Jesus gave us access to the 🔥🌪 of God that Adam lost.
It seems to me, here as flesh and blood, we experience God behind a dense veil, of created activities or energies of God, like seeing the effects of the wind without seeing the wind. However, the contemplative gets to experience God as fire or light through a thinner veil by his noetic seeing that strips away layers of veils between him and God's Essence.
God's Essence thinly veiled is the Spirit. God's Essence unveiled is the Father. God's Essence thickly veiled is the Incarnation. The Incarnation tempers us and leads us back to the Spirit. The Spirit enlivens us and leads us back to the Father. We can touch the Incarnation and get healed. We, healed, can then gaze on the Spirit and live. We, healed and living, in the after life, can enter into the tabernacle, its veil having been torn by Jesus' torn flesh.
We in the flesh wear a thick veil and see the created actions of God. The noetic contemplatives or hesychists wear a thinner veil of light and see more of God's Essence. However, the veils of the saints in heaven are torn between them and the Father and only the Spirit surrounds or veils them. But they have also eaten the Bread of Life, consumed the sacrificial Lamb, believed Word of faith dwelling in them.
Having the protective Spirit of God without, surrounding the soul, hovering, like over the void at creation; and having the sustaining Son of God within feeding the soul or filling that void in the soul, we may then dwell in the unveiled tabernacle or bosom of the Father and not die ever.
The supposed experience of the Divine Essence through created grace puts our trust in a creation. In such a case, the gap between a supposed created grace and the Essence of God is infinite. This leads to abstention from any real experience of God, which is applied atheism.
In other words, we could never be saved by the creation.
Well, the “analogy” you offer of our inner life, which is unknown to others, and our “energies” is that of a composite being. Clearly, creatures are composites, and that's what enables that kind of distinction. So, your example doesn't appear to be an analogy at all; it appears to be entirely equivocal. Moreover, though it is understandable that as it is supposed that the persons of the Trinity do not divide the essence, so the energies cannot divide it either, really distinct persons _do indeed_ divide the essence, albeit unintentionally.
🙏🌺☦️🌺🙏
why were greek words used without defining them.. the average non-orthodox person will not understand them and think it is some technical mumbo jumbo.. pls keep the theologically illiterate in mind while making these videos.
This video is NOT of a series "for dummies". Get educated instead of whining.
The “theology” series will utilize technical terminology and will thus be of a higher rhetorical / theological caliber. Other series’ encompass similar truth but brought down more to the common vernacular
@@johnnyd2383 I know these words I was thinking of average non-orthodox person who might not get it because these videos do seem to be greared towards evangelising. I'm sorry if my concern sounded like whining to you. I just want the true faith to be understood by outsiders.
Lutherans translate the terms to 'nature/work' to talk about the same things, if I understand this video rightly.
However essence and energy are English words, but you're right to want to check meanings because energy is synonymous with electricity and with magical power (in different contexts).
Thank you for saying that. When he finished I just kept wondering what did he say?
I have one problem. What about the nature of solipsism? If God can't be known in it's essence, then that means that there will always remain a degree of indepence for both of us, and that there will never be true love or the sharing of the whole being.
Another thing is that we are not trully equal to God, we don't have the same powers as Him or the same ability to express. We are limited.
There are too many contradictions and to many limitations and roadblocks. It seems as tho reality itself is limited and so is the one who created it.
I'm saying this as an agnostic who wants to see the truth, but I simply can't when there are too many contradictions. I may be saying all of this out of ignorance, but things are not easy when there are paradoxes. You can't have any expectations for anyone to understand if you are not understandable. All of which leads to absurdity and you may as well just not care anymore about truth and relativize everything since there's no set way that is truth. Which already is happening in the form of marxism and wokeness.
@Prescott Interesting argument. So you say that the only one we see as equal would only be ourselves. However if we see someone as equal, by extension we will see ourselves equal and accept still only us as equal as it is our standards that have been met. So love would then require not total dependability but partial? Very interesting example with the mother and the child. Indeed, there will always be a discrepancy between the two in terms of power.
I think that love is neither about independence nor dependability. It's about the acquirement of independence through partial dependability. That is you are able to became independent in this life and just like your parents, but that is because of them in the first place. In this way I also think that it's the fact that they became more powerful because they had more power to make you independent as well. Equal power can't make for independent agents but only a higher power.
Yes I also agree with the fact of nihilistic programming. But we don't have a framework everything is tailored towards destruction and not on building things. So we can't go against the wave since we don't have a cohesive structure in place to act as a counter force to that.
I also see what's happening in this world and it is bad. However I don't see how the bad can validate the good. That is I don't see why would there need to be pressuring to prove the good in the first place.
But thx anyway for the response.
Human nature can be united to divine essence without human nature becoming divine essence. Thats literally what the incarnation is. Eternal life is uniting to God without us becoming divine. Hence, "divine energy" is an unnecessary middle-man.
And in terms of revelation, the Word of God (Jesus Christ) reveals God to us, not "divine energies".
Well paul clear says ενέργεια energy or ενεργηματα energies in his epistles that get in humans. See for start col1:29
The human nature in union with the Word God is a Hypostatic union on his own Person .The person of the Word God become flesh.so Jesus Christ is one person the Word God with two natures the divine and human. That is the union by Hypostasis. Only to Lord Jesus Christ.
@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας Paul says nothing about "uncreated divine energy". Theology is not keyword search.
The concept of divine energy puts an unnecessary and unbiblical middle-man between us and God.
Scripture says the Holy Spirit himself would be with us, not some "uncreated energy".
@@LMN579 yes he does .first he shows the word δύναμις power synonyms with the word energy ενέργεια.see. The verses original language text 1cor.6:14 for δύναμις power and in col 2:12 ενέργεια energy.
@@LMN579 them go to Romans 1:20 that says for the δύναμις power it Θειοτης meaning Deity and there in the original language text is also the word αίδιος for δύναμις power. That word in greek show the uncreated it mean more them eternal.
This sounds like something straight out of Hinduism
Not at all.
That practise and theology is at first in scripture saint Paul wrote about the ενέργειες energies of God in his epistles
Where you saw Hinduism .was the publican pray a Hinduism act???
I don't know about Hinduism, but certainly Gnosticism.
@@CatholicSedevacantist where you see gnosticism do you mean paul that show a distinction between God and energies was a gnostic in 1 cor 12:6
Uhhh....
☦️☦️☦️
Much ado about nothing...
How does that help you lead a saintly life?
Christ has come to free us from the bondage of sin, remember?
Twoddle