Hello mark. I did sneak into business class on a Emirates 777 flight from Birmingham to Dubai once! As I boarded I just went left and sat in any old seat the crew didn't realise until after about an hour after takeoff when they were sorting meals out. I did benefit from a class of champagne on departure. Then I was ushered back into economy!
That is the ultimate blag Mark! Nice one! Not sure I’d have the balls to try that tbh, then again it could be a ‘sorry I thought all the seats were like this on Emirates’ line could work 😂
@@sheilam4525 that would certainly be interesting 😂 I always wanted to climb it after a thing John Noakes on Blue Peter in the 70’s. Not sure I’d have the legs for it now!
I regularly travel with LNER on First Class from Inverness to Edinburgh for a day out. I have noticed many people from Inverness travel 1st class to Edinburgh for the day which seem extremely popular. It’s popular due to the excellent value when you consider you get a hot breakfast on the way down, unlimited snacks, cold drinks teas and coffees. Potentially lunch in the First Class lounge in Waverley. Hot meal, snacks, hot and cold drinks through journey back up to Inverness. The staff who seem to be Inverness based are always utterly superb. My only moan is I always drink far too many coffees 😂
The staff Surprisingly aren't based in Inverness except from the chef who is. The guard and catering crew are based in Edinburgh and the drivers who do the Edinburgh to inverness route are actually Newcastle drivers!!! 😀 the crew will bring the train up that arrives into Inverness at 8.30pm ish and stay in a hotel overnight and work the 7.55 the next morning.
@@lewiss626 there are three crews based in Inverness. Train managers and drivers either from Edinburgh or Newcastle. The chefs also from Inverness (one is my neighbour). The shift they work is Inverness to Newcastle, then Newcastle to Inverness. There is even an LNER office upstairs in Inverness to deal with associated paperwork.
I have heard that Avanti has been called by the government to a meeting this week so I wonder if they are about to loose the franchise as a lot of people are not happy with the service.
@@simonboulton4490 Labours long term plan is to bring all rail franchises back into public ownership as they end, but I imagine ending a failing franchise early could be seen as an easy win, and a statement of intent.
I find the food options are usually better on LNER but the comfort and ride quality of the Pendelino is always better and makes a difference on the longer journeys. Another great video!
Great video. LNER is much better when you get a train with hot food. Oh and that reservation indicator - anyone can book a seat on LNER up to 5 minutes before departing a station, meaning someone can effectively kick you out of it! For peace of mind, best going for a green lighted seat or even better, reserve a seat yourself well in advance
Gotta say those bloody LNER headrests sliding down all the time makes the journey just a bit annoying. And yes... that Hitachi jitter... So, for me, Avanti has it. Especially if you are rinsing some value out of your outbound Interrail ticket and don't have to sell a kidney to buy the ticket! Great vid as always!
Good comparison video Mark. Wow, what a horrendous price for 1st class between Crewe & Edinburgh !! That seat on the Aberdeen leg didn't look comfortable at all - random you weren't offered biscuits ! :)
We really enjoyed this comparison video. We haven't used Avanti (shocked by the price, although train journeys aren't cheap here in Canada) but have used LNER from Edinburgh to Aberdeen. We too used first class. Didn't access the lounge at Waverley but had a thoroughly enjoyable journey. We found the seats comfortable, staff friendly, and the hot meal was delicious. Arriving in Aberdeen by train, we crossed the road to catch the ferry to Shetland. Very handy for foot passengers. :)
Cheers both. That is the best way to the ferry imo. The transport in Aberdeen is really well connected, bus, train and ferry anyway and the bus service up to ABZ isn’t bad either. I will return to the Northlink ferry up to Shetland at some point - a great journey!
Brilliant video and great review!! Brilliant scenery!! Absolutely shocking prices and a complete difference of product and service between the two operators. Hope all is well, take care
Hey Mark, great video showing the comparison between the two. Both Crew change and additional stock gets delivered at Preston. In relation to the delays, most often made up after Carlisle dependant on traffic. Tickets will get checked, however if you only have 1-2 people in first class (Pre Booked and not last minute upgrades or bids), the Train Manager isn't going to come up to first class, all the way from coach C where their office is. So yeah, you do get some people who try to sneak an hour or two in first class. Also one minute detail, during weekends only Coach K is first class and Coach J is only first class on Monday - Friday Services. Of course all of this is subject to scheduling and train manager's choice too. Hope this helped 😁
@@chefecho7145 Hi Chef, yes great info thanks (you sound like you work in the industry😊🤔). Appreciate this mate and I hope it helps others too when thinking about booking. Cheers.
£241. Good grief! I remember back in 2011 when i took Virgin Trains Pendolino from Birmingham New St to Edinburgh Waverley (though it may have been Haymarket), the ride comfort, the food and drink, staff, cleanliness were spot on and I paid an advance fare totalling £26.40. Pretty good I would say. I returned partly via the East Coast (scenery was fantastic) to York and then the train turned towards Bham. This cost £38 with Crosscountry. Not a bad price but compared to Virgin, they were a far cry from them!!! Cheers Mark.
Thanks Mark, great video, you got a carriage to yourself, that's a massive bonus 👍, great scenery on that east coast line to Aberdeen, one really expensive and one reasonable, doesn't make sense , surely it's all about bums on seats, thanks Mark 😀
Never tried Avanti (as I live in West Yorkshire), but me and my Dad did Leeds to London Kings Cross in first class in July 2022 (the reverse was in standard class), and other than the fact that there was a fault with the oven and kettle on board (meaning no hot food or drink), it was a relatively stress free journey!
LNER systems allow seat reservation up to 5 minutes before departure time - so it is always possible that a seat free at departure could be reserved later for a passenger joining at a future station. It also means that you can circumvent this by reserving the seat for your own use from the next station (provided it is over 5 minutes away). Most LNER trains have had those annoying headrests removed (though you can usually see 1 or 2 thrown onto on the luggage racks). I believe that they are to be replaced as they have never worked as intended or been popular.
Great video Mark. I've done Aberdeen to London in standard and London to Aberdeen in first and found both sufficient. In first it was great as I had the dine menu so two hot meals. As for the seats I don't mind them in first but had to get up a few times in standard to stretch the legs! With Avanti first class I got a bargain £50 advance fair Rugby to Edinburgh and got a full English. Love pendos.
Yes, I agree with your sumarisation. That LNER just looked shoddy overall, whereas the Avanti looked bright, fresh and welcoming! Without the Reliability score they would have been well ahead. Thanks for the great video. Ciao.
Great video, Mark. I think Avanti have done a great job of reburbishing the Pendolinos and it's hard to believe that they are over 20 years old compared to the Azumas which rattle and creak and are only about 5 years old. That said I've had lots of cancellations on Avanti trips and no problems with LNER.
Cheers Rog, they have done a good job. It looks like a quality refurb and yes it was quite empty but with the 2:1 seat config even a full carriage would be fine providing they can keep the service up to standard on a busy train.
I was in K first class a couple years ago. Cost about 75 London to Glasgow. A few people in it and great service. Guy couldn't bring me enough red wine and whiskey.
Yep, I have tried Lumo it just didn’t fit into my schedule this time. Personally I thought they were pretty good for the price but I may well do a proper review for the channel at some point.
Hi, first time watching one of your videos. Found it interesting and informative. I do think that UK rail prices do more to deter people travelling, than say Europe?
Great video Mark. I was lucky enough to purchase an All Line 14 day 1st class rover ticket in February this year as it was something I always wanted to do. I did many trips with Avanti and in my opinion they were the best.......those on board toasties and the breakfasts are amazing! I did try LNER on both the 225s and the Azumas and can honestly say the 225s were much better than the Azumas which to be honest are absolutely horrible trains. My only complaint about Avanti would be at weekends where only one carriage is 1st class which can get a bit cramped. On some trips during weekends I would sit in Standard Premium which was more roomier. If I wanted any food and drinks I would pop into the 1st class carriage and ask the stewards for anything I wanted and go and sit back in Standard Premium. The staff on both LNER and Avanti were superb and a credit to both companies. I would urge anyone to try a 14 day 1st class rover. It's expensive but if you take into consideration how much the single journeys would have cost the rover ticket is a bargain and you can get on virtually any train without a reservation. Again a great video.
@jennyhouse6748 I took many photos but i didn't write a blog Jenny. There were some train operators who I didn't use who provide first class accommodation. I didn't use Greater Anglia,EMR,Grand Central,Hull Trains and Thameslink. The following is the list of trains I used. Scotrail HSTs,class 170s and 385s. Avanti class 390 CrossCountry classes 220 and 221. Transpennine Express classes 185,397 and 802. GWR class 802. SWR class 159. LNER class 800,801 and the 225 sets. The best in my opinion was the Avanti class 390. The worst was CrossCountry's class 220s and 221s. I must give a special mention to SWRs class 159s. The small first class section was much more comfy compared to GWRs Class 802s which compete between London and Exeter. On a final note I found the first class accommodation on all the class 800,801 and 802s very drab and sterile plus the seats were hideously uncomfortable.
Thanks Mate. I’ve bought the Britrail 1st class pass here in Oz for Sept/Oct. I look forward to the LNER to KGX - INV and back to my old favourite GLA-EUS. Plus I’m doing the Cally Sleeper. I’ll let you know when I’m over and pass my comments. 🇦🇺
Great video as usual. 👍🏻 One complaint - missing the “baby changing” quips in the toilet review, you need to start that up again - it makes us giggle. 😂 Rach, Dave & Stanley.
Interesting watch! I've booked 1st class LNER from Edinburgh to London in August so I'll see how it goes! Last time I travelled 1st class on the East coast was in 2010 but was lucky to enjoy an HST down. I used to do some IT work for Virgin/Avanti in the shop and would occasionally travel to Carlisle and back from Edin or Glasgow - I hated the smell of sewage in the vestibules buy the staff were always very friendly and helpful.
Would Love to go on an Avanti train from Manchester/Preston to Glasgow/Edinburgh. But i get put off because i’m visually impaired and struggle to find reserved seats, or a certain coach, and hate busy trains!
Wow, what a great day you chose weather-wise! I've done quite a lot of Interrail first class travel on these trains in the past few months and I pretty much agree with all your findings. One thing I would say though is that it isn't really a fair comparison to judge just the Edinburgh to Aberdeen section of the LNER route. From London to Edinburgh they would have been offering the "Dine" menu on that train and the food would have been MUCH better - full cooked breakfast etc. I've done that very same train from York to Dundee and I noticed a distinct drop in service levels on the latter section. Also, you would have got a better seat had you boarded at the start of the service, so again, not really fair. Oh and, yes, the ride quality is poor on the Azuma but you only experienced the diesel-running section of the route which would have made it a little noisier. The staff have always been amazing on Avanti First and the LNER ones are OK too. Once thing I've noticed about both services though - that last "half" coach tends to become the staff rest-area later in the journey. Often the kitchen and waiting staff are sat around in the last few rows chatting. Pretty much all the way from Edinburgh to Dundee I got a blow by blow account of how someone was having to send their special-needs kid to a private school, how difficult the finances were going to be and how terrible the headmistress was at the current school. I don't mind personally, but many would find this a bit unprofessional. Imagine if the staff did that on an aircraft - in ANY class! Final point: The "may be reserved later" thing is because you can make a free seat reservation online up to just a few minutes before departure with LNER. So, if someone was boarding at Dundee, for example, your seat could suddenly have change to "reserved from Dundee".
I live and travel LNER 1st from KDY often and post lockdown I've not once seen a 'full' breakfast. Bacon roll at most. That's travelling at different timers and days. I remember when GNER charged £10 for breakfast and you got so much I ran out of space on the table. Pity we couldn't go back to that now.
I tried to sneak onto 1st class. I was going from Chester to Wrexham and it was the very last Avanti train of the day which also terminated at Wrexham for the night. 6 carriages long only 3 people on the entire train so I thought it wouldn't hurt to get 10 minutes in first class. Needlessly to say I got moved along. I tried to sneak into 1st because I was planning a trip from Chester to London and wanted to know if it was worth the 10x the price
Seems like a fair review, I think Avanti needs to work on its customer service though. The standard premium situation is so confusing, I fell foul of that on the weekend using a 1st class all line rover. Eventually asked the host walking past why I hadn't received any food or drink to find I did the same mistake as you, how are we supposed to know a carriage is standard premium when all the seats have first class on them? Just ridiculous, they should abolish standard premium really. Shame as the food is really tasty and seats are very comfortable on Avanti and the WCML is more scenic than the ECML within England in my opinion. I think the Voyager services on Avanti to/from North Wales have better 1st class but the services are cancelled far too much! LNER on the other hand, I feel are consistently excellent. Staff are very helpful and seem proud of working for LNER. Yesterday was the last day of my rover and went from Edinburgh (changed at York) to Stevenage on LNER. Served a snack before train even left! Drink and hot food ordered seemingly within 5 minutes of departure from Edinburgh, for a fairly long journey it was really relaxing and staff always seemed to come along at the right time for a refill of drinks which I really appreciated. That disabled seat is very poorly designed I agree. Both Glasgow and Edinburgh 1st class lounges feels somewhat basic compared to the London ones. Edinburgh's lounge was also very hard for me to find. Really like the small and simple lounge in Aberdeen though. Unless Avanti substantially improves its reliability and fares become more reasonable, LNER is probably the only 1st class I would use with normal tickets. Living 40 minutes from Stevenage certainly helps for me though as I don't even have to travel into Central London to use them. Also really hoping Avanti gets nationalised soon.
Great watch, thanks Mark! I recently tried both of these (London to Glasgow on Avanti and Edinburgh to London on LNER) and my comparison wasn't even close. Avanti was ridiculously comfortable and the staff were incredible. LNER was the most uncomfortable first class seat I've ever had. Those seats are hard, flat, cramped, no leg room, and that headrest is a horror show .... it's like a concrete block sticking into your shoulders. Plus there is the giant table leg exactly in the spot where you want to put your legs for 4.5 hours lol. Horrendous. 🤣
Yep a very similar experience to mine. Granted the AWC service was very quiet compared to LNER but the seat remains the same regardless and LNER (for me) well it’s just poorly designed imo.
@@horsehollerer I didn't find it so bad actually and they paid for an extra hotel night when the return leg was cancelled and I had to stay an extra night in Edinburgh which is not a hardship
Spot on in the comparison. I travel quite regularly from Scotland, usually Avanti from Glasgow, but have tried LNER via Edinburgh. Often travelling back on a Friday evening. Avanti 1st class is much quieter (because of the fares?), seats are much more comfortable ride is better and staff are very good, again perhaps because of less occupancy in first class. LNER has been very full on occasions I have used it, service and food were average. The reason for using LNER was always the much lower fares. Now I always try to book in advance and travel Avanti, if you time your booking a few days or weeks in advance then fare can be 1/3 of on the day pricing, and on odd occasions lower than standard class. This June I tried out the Standard Premium, (First Class without the catering) which was about half the First Class fare, travelled from Glasgow to London for £45 on a Friday evening, and spent some of the difference on goodies from M&S food. The other common Avanti issue is reliability, trains are cancelled or delayed far too regularly. (The joke was on Avanti on my last trip. having opted for Standard Premium, there were no catering staff on the train, so First Class would have been no benefit anyway!)
Nice one mate, as usual! Good to see people actually using Interrail, can certainly make some very expensive tickets more reasonable, if you can tie in some foreign journeys. The Edinburgh to Aberdeen line is still technically part of the East Coast Main Line.
Cheers, Interrail is a valid option for the inbound/outbound legs if you’re travelling a very long distance in the UK. Could very well be worth the money. Penzance to Inverness?
Great job Mark. Avanti fares strike again I see, a remarkably poor fare structure leading to “shall I pay for a seat in an empty first or standard premier”. Hope you’re comparing LNER with Virgin in the future over the same routes.
Avanti ticket prices are always hit or miss. Back in February, I paid 120 per ticket for first class from London to Crewe on a Saturday, on the earliest possible day you could get advance tickets. The staff were great, Coach K is nice and quiet, though in our case due to a catering snafu only half of our first class meal was loaded on at Euston. On the return trip I booked standard premium which was only 49 per ticket for Crewe back to London, though coach J was packed to the gills that trip. Have not ridden LNER as was on vacation in the UK from the US, and we actually spent the week in Shrewsbury.
I enjoyed your trip. My experience of avanti first class wasn’t so good. Early morning train from Manchester to London, and the coffee didn’t arrive till Milton Keynes. Breakfast was a cold ham and cheese croissant. Lner on the other hand, I’ve travelled quite a few times in first and they are brilliant. The trains are comfy (yes really), lots of space and the service and quality is out of this world. And if you can plan ahead the fares are very good value. IMHO, 42 quid for first class is a bit better than your score. I don’t see how the lner lounge was not as good as the avanti one either. Pendolinos are, or at least were fab. Avanti/first are not customer driven like virgin were and lner are. Enjoyed your vid but I’m firmly in the lner camp.
I slipped up with the standard premium avanti thing earlier this year as well , bought a seat frog upgrade going south from Glasgow thinking it was first class , of course with the no food thing when I got on realised it wasn’t .
Brilliant video Mark. Avanti are great for comfort but the reliability is so questionable. London to Scotland I always prefer LNER. King’s Cross over Euston any day. And those stunning east coast views. Have always found LNER‘s service to be excellent but have to agree the ride quality of the Azumas is a little rough. The 125, back in the day, much smoother.
@@jamesdoe1479 cheers James. Living over in the west it’s obvs a lot easier for me to take the WCML, otherwise yep I agree Kings Cross is much better than Euston. And the further north you go, the better the scenery gets (on both lines). 👍
Great video 😊 enjoyed watching this. I love riding with avanti west coast you can find some truly great value for money tickets.. shame about LNER tho there tickets are pretty steep at times.. 😅😅😅lol noticed you mentioned about first class. I do that sometimes on GWR in 10 car sets lmao😅
@LetsMakeaTrip yeah avanti west coast are a bit of a RIP if you buy them anywhere close to the day. For me I have a lot of AWC booked for August and I have booked all of them 1 month in advance. And certainly not in 1st lol. As standard premium is way cheaper for the same seating :)
I am well into my 70's with a lot of arthritis and nerve damage problems which don't go together well with ANY public transport seating and can be quite disabling. I recently had the misfortune to travel by train from Liverpool to Inverness via Edinburgh. Avanti/West Coast from Liverpool to Edinburgh - no problem. LNER from Edinburgh to Inverness (via Aberdeen) was probably the worst rail journey I have had in many a year. With their new rolling stock, which they were proudly announcing every time the bloody doors opened, LNER have finally perfected a railway carriage seat in which it is actually impossible to adopt a comfortable position. I know, because I spent 3 hours trying and when I arrived in Inverness I was barely able to walk. I'm flying next time - even if it does mean going to Manchester Airport, - which is a whole other bag of nightmares.
Don't mention the city centre now, the bus gates etc have ruined it. Yep, the bus and train station have been closer since Union Square's opening. Before Union Square, you had to ensure you got the toilet at the train station as you had to cross the car park to get to the old bus station. When you needed the loo at the old Aberdeen bus station, it was open whilst the ticket office was open and there was only one, if the ticket office was closed, you had to walk across cobbled streets to get to the trains.
One of my big gripes about LNER London to Aberdeen is that becomes a local commuter service between Edinburgh and Aberdeen which adds significantly to the journey time, surely an national rail service should only really be stopping at Dundee and maybe at push Arbroath and Brechin.
I have travelled that route a lot to Aberdeen in the past, I think one of the issues is that the line becomes single track at points and so limits the number of services that can be run hence why the LNER service is more akin to a local stopping service north of Edinburgh.
Great video as always Mark..sometimes these kinda trips are difficult to truely compare as for eg not sitting in equal type of seats... but the ride quality is deffo one i agree with The Azuma ive found to be horrible and the seats not 1st class mind are back breaking concrete ..do not like the trains at all..fare wise does seem the advance upto an hour if offered on Avanti would be a game changer however they lack staff and many trains are cancelled ...ive no idea which is worse but both could and should be vastly improved on what they offer for me
A very honest review thank you. How can Avanti justify that price. It would have put me off using the service. No wonder the train was empty. LNER may have been better if you could get a different seat?
Really enlightening video Mark. Yes Avanti's 1st class is too expensive on this regional route. Standard premium (like airline premium Y) is far better value. Avanti easily beats LNER here although the former comes at a hefty price.
Hi Mark another great video i agree with you the 390 is superior to a zoomer if the TPE service is more reliable the Avanti there is something wrong there for sure as TPE arnt great for cancelling services keep the videos coming 👍🏻
My thoughts on the best one comes down simply to the beer they provide on board🤣. While I do like Avanti's First and their Tilting Ale and Camp-a-choo-choo can of beer, but LNER's first (used to at least) serve the Hop on Board Ale, that was a nice beer! Grand video comparing the products, shame about the seat on the LNER, don't think I would have put up with it for that one either! Looking forward to your next one!
Great video Mark I really enjoyed watching this video. I agree with you with your views on the Avanti West Coast 390 I travelled on one last week between Birmingham New Street to Preston while on my way to Workington in Cumbria for a film premiere "The Ballad of Lucy Sands" my dad is one of the main cast (He's called Isaac Bird in the film)and I travelled up to Preston with a Class 390 and I found even standard class was very comfortable and I had a longer journey on the return to Cornwall from Carlisle to Birmingham New Street on a Class 390 in Standard Class and it was incredibly busy every seat was taken and I was holding alot of luggage so that journey wasn't as great but the train was clean, comfortable and on time with the onboard staff being very friendly and evening announcing people on the train that someone has lost their phone so hopefully that person got their phone back but I really enjoyed Avanti West Coast standard class actually apart from it was busy but the people weren't shouting etc which is good. I haven't been a a LNER IET but the seats that you explained are similar to the seats in standard class and the IET's ain't the most comfortable trains unfortunately as the GWR IET's can be uncomfortable aswell. But to be fair any train can have a uncomfortable seat even HST's I have been on HST's before and some can be more uncomfortable then others but overall HST's had alot more softness then the IET's with them seats being alot harder because of their design. It is a shame that the IET's can be uncomfortable as I see them being really good and comfortable trains but the railway companies need to improve their seats as they are not designed to be for long distance trains such as Edinburgh to London or London to Penzance.
Cheers Al, yep I mainly travel AWC in standard class and it’s absolutely fine. Got one down to London this weekend actually. Overall, I would take the HST’s and that is another option between the Scottish cities isn’t it. I may do one or two more of them while I can. Thanks mate 👍
@@LetsMakeaTrip That would be nice if you made a review on the Scotrail Inter7City HST's you should also do a review on the Great Western Railway Castle Set HST's aswell which are being cut back with the amount of services as they used to operate to Cardiff Central from Penzance but you can only see them between Penzance and Plymouth now. Which I do travel on them every now and again when I make trainspotting videos on the channel I run and they are really nice comfortable, quiet, decent leg room aswell (I'm 6ft 3 around abouts that anyway) so that would be nice if you did the Scotrail and GWR HST's. I did see your XC HST trip from Bristol to Exeter which was then followed by a GWR IET review from Exeter to Penzance which I really enjoyed them videos so thank you for your amazing work and sharing the experiences with perhaps some people won't really experience for example I probably will never travel on a Scotrail HST in their time but always nice when people share what you do so thank you.
Did 1st Class from Preston to Portsmouth on 5 to 8 July for the centenary celebration of my Grammar School near Portsmouth. Avanti from Preston to Euston and back excellent, South Western from Waterloo to Portsmouth not very good at all. Not even a glass of water! Arrived back in Blackpool with Covid and feel crap!
I did use Avanti West Coast between London and Birmingham on my way to Shrewsbury last april, but that line I had used it between Preston and London via Wigan when there still was Virgin Trains. LNER instead I used it a few times between London and Leeds, and between Newcastle and Edinburgh, using both the HST and Azuma trains. Totally agree with your points and indeed Avanti's First Class option is extortionate
Cheers Enrico, yep, in hindsight I could’ve given Avanti 1 or 0 for value for money though you can get some better advance fares booking a lot earlier. Like I said though, it’s a risky business with them as half the time you’ll find the train’s been cancelled later on!
@@LetsMakeaTrip indeed the frequent cancellations perfectly reflect the fact that they are partially owned by Trenitalia, which also has a few delays and cancellations every now and then. With my London to Birmingham Avanti train it was on time and was able to get it for a good £25 and it was lovely, but still we can agree that they have seen better times
You can't really score based on just one journey each operator. Azumas get a bad reputation for comfort, Avanti for reliability. Sometimes you are lucky, sometimes not.
Hi Mark another great video i have travelled Avanti a few times and always enjoy travelling on the 390s. The Azuma are a different matter very cheap and Nasty uncomfortable trains.
Great video Mark! Just wondering if you miss the Avanti to Shrewsbury service? I know it featured in a few of your videos but has it effected you hugely?
It hasn’t affected me hugely no. I could always do it cheaper by changing and the times were just a bit inconvenient (for me). If TfW biz class went, I’d miss that!
Great comparison video Mark 👍 That price on Avanti is almost unbelievable... if it weren't for real. I'm going to drop you an email soon to your business enquiries address published on here. Read your post about sponsorship and i have a few observations I'd like to feedback to you - hopefully all positive.
I was just checking the Britrail pass for 22 days 1st class...now $1224 cdn not bad for use on all trains in England, Scotland & Wales.. thats around 700 quid...last time I used one was years ago paid $600 Cdn & calculated if I had purchased every ticket for each seperate journey it would havr been about 5,000 quid
If I was travelling on a ticket like yours I would say Avanti was the much better hard and soft product. The Azumas have been a disappointment but seems to be the norm for new trains recently. Funny you should see the Northern Belle as I am booked on there in late November from Sheffield to Edinburgh up the East Coast and whilst their price is high it looks great value to the walk on Avanti fare.
I have yet to travel on one of these special trains but they do look fantastic and I think there’s definitely scope for a video or two on the channel. I must look into it but in the meantime, have a great trip! 👍
Avanti expensive and cancellation issues atm. LNER rubbish trains. Advantages and disadvantages of both. The deep leather armchairs in first class on the mark 3s that used to run on both routes were wonderful and the trains were just as fast. Progress?
The seat comfort on Avanti is second to none but I'm not a fan of the Pendolinos personally. They're better after the refurb but generally feel very claustrophobic, not helped by the tiny windows. LNER isn't the best for comfort but I normally find their food and drink offering to be the best by far. I like that the Azumas feel more airy and open but their interior layout is absolutely horrendous.
Thanks Mark for yet another exceptional video, I find your videos & the way that you present them both interesting & inspirational, never dull & presented with honesty, humour & energy, waiting for the next one to appear each Friday is something that I eagerly look forward to, I'm suffering with a few health issues at present Mark so it really does lift me immensely when I watch your videos, in fact I've watched most of them over & over again. Tell me Mark is this just a hobby or your full time work as I marvel at how you could possibly do your videos & hold down a full time job if that is the case ? Thanks Mark & keep up the good work my friend 👍
The Avanti pricing is terrible, at least Dick Turpin had the courtesy to wear a mask. Nice scenery and a fairly enjoyable journey all round, till next time take care and stay safe.
Great vid. To be honest i live in Scotland and never travelled either. I fly south rather than take train. I did think LNER Edinburgh tae Aiberdeen price deserved 5 stars rather than 4 for what you are getting. Compared to Scotrail’s very poor/non existent first class offering at extortionate cost on intercity services, i’d have called this vid a 24 all draw.
I’ll go into First Class on Avanti when I can’t find a seat and not feel bad about it, should be the basic principle of travel being allowed to sit down!
I would never do a cheeky first class upgrade. Terrible. That said, in my formative years, I may have done Congleton to Piccadilly on slam door trains free by hopping off at Macc and Cheadle Hulme on the way and running to the other end of the train away from the conductor 😂 Didn’t do it much. Just every weekend. I miss the late 80s/early 90s. Nice video and trip! Train up to Aberdeen to get a flight though - the lengths people go to to avoid Manchester Airport 😉
Haha, cheers Kev. Yep, I remember jumping on a dmu from Wolves as it was leaving the station. The train stopped and I got told off. They let me back on it though. I got up to loads of stuff in the 80’s tbh - too much to confess on here! 🤣
Think the may be reserved later is just a warning for people travelling from down south incase someone books halfway through the journey and takes a seat. Bare in mind how long the journey is
Personally, i find avanti first class better in general compares to LNER but i prefer to travel with LNER. Avanti offer nicer meals services, better lounges and better first class service from the hosts in my opinion and the ride quality is so much better on the west coast compared to the east especially the section between york and Newcastle which is horrendous for ride quality but LNER are generally cheaper and more reliable and the service is still good just doesnt have that bit extra that avanti offer.
Leaving aside the issue of the rolling stock LNER got stuck with thanks to the morons at the DFT East vs west was a wash untill Avanti took over the west Coast route and ruined it, prices are clearly designed to keep passenger numbers down to the match the number of staff they are prepared to employ.....as Avanti are now also getting Hitachi trains the rolling stock issues are also going to get balanced out somewhat although to the negative...
This was interesting. But unlike horsehollerer on the journey in their comment, you were not comparing like with like. The Avanii train was unsurprisingly, given the stations it served, extremely quiet, and as you were for most of the way the only passenger in first class, you had excellent at seat service. Equally unsurprisingly, a train serving London, Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen was busy. Yet, except perhaps for the biscuits, you had good at seat service. As for the bag of rubbish, I would, before I settled into my seat, 'sorted it' by depositing it in one of the rubbish bins in the vestibule.
The biscuit saga, the staff probably assumed that you'd heard them offered to others and would have asked for them if required. The lack of hot food would have annoyed me, even popperty ping food better than nothing hot. Some sort of buffet service should be available for first class other than a cold trolley.
On the flip side ref seat comfort Pendolino vs Hitachi the Pendolinos unfortunately consistently manage to pong out carriages with chemical toilet smell......
At that price I'm not surprised you had the carriage to yourself!
Precisely 👍
Hello mark. I did sneak into business class on a Emirates 777 flight from Birmingham to Dubai once! As I boarded I just went left and sat in any old seat the crew didn't realise until after about an hour after takeoff when they were sorting meals out. I did benefit from a class of champagne on departure. Then I was ushered back into economy!
That is the ultimate blag Mark! Nice one! Not sure I’d have the balls to try that tbh, then again it could be a ‘sorry I thought all the seats were like this on Emirates’ line could work 😂
Another comprensive review, Mark👍. As a child, I used to think the train went over the top of the Forth rail bridge like a rollercoaster😂
@@sheilam4525 that would certainly be interesting 😂 I always wanted to climb it after a thing John Noakes on Blue Peter in the 70’s. Not sure I’d have the legs for it now!
@@LetsMakeaTrip I remember that!🤣
I regularly travel with LNER on First Class from Inverness to Edinburgh for a day out. I have noticed many people from Inverness travel 1st class to Edinburgh for the day which seem extremely popular. It’s popular due to the excellent value when you consider you get a hot breakfast on the way down, unlimited snacks, cold drinks teas and coffees. Potentially lunch in the First Class lounge in Waverley. Hot meal, snacks, hot and cold drinks through journey back up to Inverness. The staff who seem to be Inverness based are always utterly superb. My only moan is I always drink far too many coffees 😂
The staff Surprisingly aren't based in Inverness except from the chef who is. The guard and catering crew are based in Edinburgh and the drivers who do the Edinburgh to inverness route are actually Newcastle drivers!!! 😀 the crew will bring the train up that arrives into Inverness at 8.30pm ish and stay in a hotel overnight and work the 7.55 the next morning.
@@lewiss626 there are three crews based in Inverness. Train managers and drivers either from Edinburgh or Newcastle. The chefs also from Inverness (one is my neighbour). The shift they work is Inverness to Newcastle, then Newcastle to Inverness. There is even an LNER office upstairs in Inverness to deal with associated paperwork.
Love bingeing these videos on a hangover! Great analysis thanks :)
@@philshermusic cheers Phil and thanks for the support (not football-induced I hope)!
@@LetsMakeaTrip sure is!! lol
I have heard that Avanti has been called by the government to a meeting this week so I wonder if they are about to loose the franchise as a lot of people are not happy with the service.
Yes I believe so. I’ll be interested to hear what happens .
@@LetsMakeaTrip id expect it to go into goverment hands like LNER is ..but if thats anything to go by its got worse
@@simonboulton4490 Labours long term plan is to bring all rail franchises back into public ownership as they end, but I imagine ending a failing franchise early could be seen as an easy win, and a statement of intent.
I find the food options are usually better on LNER but the comfort and ride quality of the Pendelino is always better and makes a difference on the longer journeys. Another great video!
Cheers Martin. I think if you get the Dine menu with LNER, you’re onto a winner definitely. Need to carefully choose your trains though for that one!
@@LetsMakeaTrip And hope they don't make an on-the-day swap!
Great video. LNER is much better when you get a train with hot food.
Oh and that reservation indicator - anyone can book a seat on LNER up to 5 minutes before departing a station, meaning someone can effectively kick you out of it! For peace of mind, best going for a green lighted seat or even better, reserve a seat yourself well in advance
Cheers mate and thanks for the info. And yes I agree ordinarily I’d buy way in advance if possible 👍
Great, enjoyable video…fairly analysed, well filmed & narrated. Subscribed 😎👍🏽
Thanks mate and I appreciate the sub. Cheers 😊👍
Gotta say those bloody LNER headrests sliding down all the time makes the journey just a bit annoying.
And yes... that Hitachi jitter...
So, for me, Avanti has it. Especially if you are rinsing some value out of your outbound Interrail ticket and don't have to sell a kidney to buy the ticket!
Great vid as always!
Cheers mate. Yep those Interrail outbound/inbound legs certainly help with the costs when ‘getting’ to continental Europe!
Good comparison video Mark. Wow, what a horrendous price for 1st class between Crewe & Edinburgh !! That seat on the Aberdeen leg didn't look comfortable at all - random you weren't offered biscuits ! :)
We really enjoyed this comparison video. We haven't used Avanti (shocked by the price, although train journeys aren't cheap here in Canada) but have used LNER from Edinburgh to Aberdeen. We too used first class. Didn't access the lounge at Waverley but had a thoroughly enjoyable journey. We found the seats comfortable, staff friendly, and the hot meal was delicious. Arriving in Aberdeen by train, we crossed the road to catch the ferry to Shetland. Very handy for foot passengers. :)
Cheers both. That is the best way to the ferry imo. The transport in Aberdeen is really well connected, bus, train and ferry anyway and the bus service up to ABZ isn’t bad either. I will return to the Northlink ferry up to Shetland at some point - a great journey!
Brilliant video and great review!! Brilliant scenery!! Absolutely shocking prices and a complete difference of product and service between the two operators.
Hope all is well, take care
Cheers Peter. Yep, basically, there’s no way I’d have done the Avanti one if I wasn’t on an Interrail ticket. Absolutely no way!
Hey Mark, great video showing the comparison between the two. Both Crew change and additional stock gets delivered at Preston. In relation to the delays, most often made up after Carlisle dependant on traffic. Tickets will get checked, however if you only have 1-2 people in first class (Pre Booked and not last minute upgrades or bids), the Train Manager isn't going to come up to first class, all the way from coach C where their office is. So yeah, you do get some people who try to sneak an hour or two in first class. Also one minute detail, during weekends only Coach K is first class and Coach J is only first class on Monday - Friday Services. Of course all of this is subject to scheduling and train manager's choice too. Hope this helped 😁
@@chefecho7145 Hi Chef, yes great info thanks (you sound like you work in the industry😊🤔). Appreciate this mate and I hope it helps others too when thinking about booking. Cheers.
Absolutely loved this Mark. These are the best kind of videos. Do take care D
Thanks David and I appreciate the comment 😊👍
£241. Good grief!
I remember back in 2011 when i took Virgin Trains Pendolino from Birmingham New St to Edinburgh Waverley (though it may have been Haymarket), the ride comfort, the food and drink, staff, cleanliness were spot on and I paid an advance fare totalling £26.40. Pretty good I would say.
I returned partly via the East Coast (scenery was fantastic) to York and then the train turned towards Bham.
This cost £38 with Crosscountry. Not a bad price but compared to Virgin, they were a far cry from them!!!
Cheers Mark.
excellent video as usual! you seem very kind and polite - a good customer by hospitality service means
Thanks very much mate, I try my best. Doesn’t always work out tbh with you!
Thanks Mark, great video, you got a carriage to yourself, that's a massive bonus 👍, great scenery on that east coast line to Aberdeen, one really expensive and one reasonable, doesn't make sense , surely it's all about bums on seats, thanks Mark 😀
Cheers mate, quite inconsistent the fares aren’t they. Needs sorting really.
Never tried Avanti (as I live in West Yorkshire), but me and my Dad did Leeds to London Kings Cross in first class in July 2022 (the reverse was in standard class), and other than the fact that there was a fault with the oven and kettle on board (meaning no hot food or drink), it was a relatively stress free journey!
LNER systems allow seat reservation up to 5 minutes before departure time - so it is always possible that a seat free at departure could be reserved later for a passenger joining at a future station. It also means that you can circumvent this by reserving the seat for your own use from the next station (provided it is over 5 minutes away).
Most LNER trains have had those annoying headrests removed (though you can usually see 1 or 2 thrown onto on the luggage racks). I believe that they are to be replaced as they have never worked as intended or been popular.
Great video Mark. I've done Aberdeen to London in standard and London to Aberdeen in first and found both sufficient. In first it was great as I had the dine menu so two hot meals. As for the seats I don't mind them in first but had to get up a few times in standard to stretch the legs! With Avanti first class I got a bargain £50 advance fair Rugby to Edinburgh and got a full English. Love pendos.
Yes, I agree with your sumarisation. That LNER just looked shoddy overall, whereas the Avanti looked bright, fresh and welcoming! Without the Reliability score they would have been well ahead.
Thanks for the great video. Ciao.
Thanks mate and cheers for the comment 😊
Idea for you how about do a set of vids on main stations and what they have to offer and where trains ,buses and coaches go to
Great video, Mark. I think Avanti have done a great job of reburbishing the Pendolinos and it's hard to believe that they are over 20 years old compared to the Azumas which rattle and creak and are only about 5 years old. That said I've had lots of cancellations on Avanti trips and no problems with LNER.
Cheers Rog, they have done a good job. It looks like a quality refurb and yes it was quite empty but with the 2:1 seat config even a full carriage would be fine providing they can keep the service up to standard on a busy train.
The fact that the 390s still have a good 10-12 years left in them, being 22 years old and still looking modern
I was in K first class a couple years ago. Cost about 75 London to Glasgow. A few people in it and great service. Guy couldn't bring me enough red wine and whiskey.
You also got Lumo which was introduced in service back in 2021. All 3 train operators that are competing with each other from London to Edinburgh.
Yep, I have tried Lumo it just didn’t fit into my schedule this time. Personally I thought they were pretty good for the price but I may well do a proper review for the channel at some point.
Hi, first time watching one of your videos. Found it interesting and informative. I do think that UK rail prices do more to deter people travelling, than say Europe?
Its great scenery that bit between Carlisle and Edinburgh. I loved that bit of the journey earlier this year when i went Edinburgh.
It’s fantastic isn’t it. I always try and sit on the right-hand side going north 👍
@@LetsMakeaTrip it is fantastic
The Section of the Edinburgh - Aberdeen line from Edinburgh to Markinch is called the Fife circle line
I didn’t know that, thanks 👍
Great video Mark. I was lucky enough to purchase an All Line 14 day 1st class rover ticket in February this year as it was something I always wanted to do.
I did many trips with Avanti and in my opinion they were the best.......those on board toasties and the breakfasts are amazing!
I did try LNER on both the 225s and the Azumas and can honestly say the 225s were much better than the Azumas which to be honest are absolutely horrible trains.
My only complaint about Avanti would be at weekends where only one carriage is 1st class which can get a bit cramped. On some trips during weekends I would sit in Standard Premium which was more roomier. If I wanted any food and drinks I would pop into the 1st class carriage and ask the stewards for anything I wanted and go and sit back in Standard Premium.
The staff on both LNER and Avanti were superb and a credit to both companies.
I would urge anyone to try a 14 day 1st class rover.
It's expensive but if you take into consideration how much the single journeys would have cost the rover ticket is a bargain and you can get on virtually any train without a reservation.
Again a great video.
Sounds like you had an excellent trip. Did you write a blog?
@jennyhouse6748 I took many photos but i didn't write a blog Jenny.
There were some train operators who I didn't use who provide first class accommodation. I didn't use Greater Anglia,EMR,Grand Central,Hull Trains and Thameslink.
The following is the list of trains I used.
Scotrail HSTs,class 170s and 385s.
Avanti class 390
CrossCountry classes 220 and 221.
Transpennine Express classes 185,397 and 802.
GWR class 802.
SWR class 159.
LNER class 800,801 and the 225 sets.
The best in my opinion was the Avanti class 390.
The worst was CrossCountry's class 220s and 221s.
I must give a special mention to SWRs class 159s. The small first class section was much more comfy compared to GWRs Class 802s which compete between London and Exeter.
On a final note I found the first class accommodation on all the class 800,801 and 802s very drab and sterile plus the seats were hideously uncomfortable.
Thanks Mate. I’ve bought the Britrail 1st class pass here in Oz for Sept/Oct. I look forward to the LNER to KGX - INV and back to my old favourite GLA-EUS. Plus I’m doing the Cally Sleeper. I’ll let you know when I’m over and pass my comments. 🇦🇺
Great video as usual. 👍🏻
One complaint - missing the “baby changing” quips in the toilet review, you need to start that up again - it makes us giggle. 😂 Rach, Dave & Stanley.
Haha, cheers guys. I did think about it but thought people were getting bored with the same old joke 😂
@@LetsMakeaTrip Ah just do it every so often then, I bet most people expect it. 😂 We always listen out for it. 😊
@@LetsMakeaTrip think you need to buy an inflatable baby to make it more realistic 😂😂😂
Interesting watch! I've booked 1st class LNER from Edinburgh to London in August so I'll see how it goes! Last time I travelled 1st class on the East coast was in 2010 but was lucky to enjoy an HST down. I used to do some IT work for Virgin/Avanti in the shop and would occasionally travel to Carlisle and back from Edin or Glasgow - I hated the smell of sewage in the vestibules buy the staff were always very friendly and helpful.
Would Love to go on an Avanti train from Manchester/Preston to Glasgow/Edinburgh. But i get put off because i’m visually impaired and struggle to find reserved seats, or a certain coach, and hate busy trains!
Wow, what a great day you chose weather-wise!
I've done quite a lot of Interrail first class travel on these trains in the past few months and I pretty much agree with all your findings. One thing I would say though is that it isn't really a fair comparison to judge just the Edinburgh to Aberdeen section of the LNER route. From London to Edinburgh they would have been offering the "Dine" menu on that train and the food would have been MUCH better - full cooked breakfast etc. I've done that very same train from York to Dundee and I noticed a distinct drop in service levels on the latter section. Also, you would have got a better seat had you boarded at the start of the service, so again, not really fair. Oh and, yes, the ride quality is poor on the Azuma but you only experienced the diesel-running section of the route which would have made it a little noisier.
The staff have always been amazing on Avanti First and the LNER ones are OK too. Once thing I've noticed about both services though - that last "half" coach tends to become the staff rest-area later in the journey. Often the kitchen and waiting staff are sat around in the last few rows chatting. Pretty much all the way from Edinburgh to Dundee I got a blow by blow account of how someone was having to send their special-needs kid to a private school, how difficult the finances were going to be and how terrible the headmistress was at the current school. I don't mind personally, but many would find this a bit unprofessional. Imagine if the staff did that on an aircraft - in ANY class!
Final point: The "may be reserved later" thing is because you can make a free seat reservation online up to just a few minutes before departure with LNER. So, if someone was boarding at Dundee, for example, your seat could suddenly have change to "reserved from Dundee".
I live and travel LNER 1st from KDY often and post lockdown I've not once seen a 'full' breakfast. Bacon roll at most. That's travelling at different timers and days. I remember when GNER charged £10 for breakfast and you got so much I ran out of space on the table. Pity we couldn't go back to that now.
Was in our fave premier inn this weekend didn’t see ya 😂
I tried to sneak onto 1st class. I was going from Chester to Wrexham and it was the very last Avanti train of the day which also terminated at Wrexham for the night. 6 carriages long only 3 people on the entire train so I thought it wouldn't hurt to get 10 minutes in first class. Needlessly to say I got moved along. I tried to sneak into 1st because I was planning a trip from Chester to London and wanted to know if it was worth the 10x the price
Seems like a fair review, I think Avanti needs to work on its customer service though. The standard premium situation is so confusing, I fell foul of that on the weekend using a 1st class all line rover. Eventually asked the host walking past why I hadn't received any food or drink to find I did the same mistake as you, how are we supposed to know a carriage is standard premium when all the seats have first class on them? Just ridiculous, they should abolish standard premium really. Shame as the food is really tasty and seats are very comfortable on Avanti and the WCML is more scenic than the ECML within England in my opinion. I think the Voyager services on Avanti to/from North Wales have better 1st class but the services are cancelled far too much!
LNER on the other hand, I feel are consistently excellent. Staff are very helpful and seem proud of working for LNER. Yesterday was the last day of my rover and went from Edinburgh (changed at York) to Stevenage on LNER. Served a snack before train even left! Drink and hot food ordered seemingly within 5 minutes of departure from Edinburgh, for a fairly long journey it was really relaxing and staff always seemed to come along at the right time for a refill of drinks which I really appreciated. That disabled seat is very poorly designed I agree.
Both Glasgow and Edinburgh 1st class lounges feels somewhat basic compared to the London ones. Edinburgh's lounge was also very hard for me to find. Really like the small and simple lounge in Aberdeen though.
Unless Avanti substantially improves its reliability and fares become more reasonable, LNER is probably the only 1st class I would use with normal tickets. Living 40 minutes from Stevenage certainly helps for me though as I don't even have to travel into Central London to use them. Also really hoping Avanti gets nationalised soon.
Thanks Mark that was an excellent video 😊
Cheers James and thanks for the comment mate 😊👍
Great watch, thanks Mark! I recently tried both of these (London to Glasgow on Avanti and Edinburgh to London on LNER) and my comparison wasn't even close. Avanti was ridiculously comfortable and the staff were incredible. LNER was the most uncomfortable first class seat I've ever had. Those seats are hard, flat, cramped, no leg room, and that headrest is a horror show .... it's like a concrete block sticking into your shoulders. Plus there is the giant table leg exactly in the spot where you want to put your legs for 4.5 hours lol. Horrendous. 🤣
Yep a very similar experience to mine. Granted the AWC service was very quiet compared to LNER but the seat remains the same regardless and LNER (for me) well it’s just poorly designed imo.
@@horsehollerer I didn't find it so bad actually and they paid for an extra hotel night when the return leg was cancelled and I had to stay an extra night in Edinburgh which is not a hardship
@@damianwalls1262 Ha, fair enough. The service and food was great, but the damn seat design and table leg ruined everything for me!
Great informative video as usual.
Thanks Richard, appreciate the comment mate 😊👍
Spot on in the comparison. I travel quite regularly from Scotland, usually Avanti from Glasgow, but have tried LNER via Edinburgh. Often travelling back on a Friday evening. Avanti 1st class is much quieter (because of the fares?), seats are much more comfortable ride is better and staff are very good, again perhaps because of less occupancy in first class. LNER has been very full on occasions I have used it, service and food were average. The reason for using LNER was always the much lower fares.
Now I always try to book in advance and travel Avanti, if you time your booking a few days or weeks in advance then fare can be 1/3 of on the day pricing, and on odd occasions lower than standard class. This June I tried out the Standard Premium, (First Class without the catering) which was about half the First Class fare, travelled from Glasgow to London for £45 on a Friday evening, and spent some of the difference on goodies from M&S food. The other common Avanti issue is reliability, trains are cancelled or delayed far too regularly. (The joke was on Avanti on my last trip. having opted for Standard Premium, there were no catering staff on the train, so First Class would have been no benefit anyway!)
Nice one mate, as usual! Good to see people actually using Interrail, can certainly make some very expensive tickets more reasonable, if you can tie in some foreign journeys. The Edinburgh to Aberdeen line is still technically part of the East Coast Main Line.
Cheers, Interrail is a valid option for the inbound/outbound legs if you’re travelling a very long distance in the UK. Could very well be worth the money. Penzance to Inverness?
Great job Mark. Avanti fares strike again I see, a remarkably poor fare structure leading to “shall I pay for a seat in an empty first or standard premier”. Hope you’re comparing LNER with Virgin in the future over the same routes.
Let’s hope so! That would be progress I think.
Avanti ticket prices are always hit or miss. Back in February, I paid 120 per ticket for first class from London to Crewe on a Saturday, on the earliest possible day you could get advance tickets. The staff were great, Coach K is nice and quiet, though in our case due to a catering snafu only half of our first class meal was loaded on at Euston. On the return trip I booked standard premium which was only 49 per ticket for Crewe back to London, though coach J was packed to the gills that trip. Have not ridden LNER as was on vacation in the UK from the US, and we actually spent the week in Shrewsbury.
Great Video Mark
Cheers Paul and thanks for the comment 😊👍
I enjoyed your trip. My experience of avanti first class wasn’t so good. Early morning train from Manchester to London, and the coffee didn’t arrive till Milton Keynes. Breakfast was a cold ham and cheese croissant. Lner on the other hand, I’ve travelled quite a few times in first and they are brilliant. The trains are comfy (yes really), lots of space and the service and quality is out of this world. And if you can plan ahead the fares are very good value. IMHO, 42 quid for first class is a bit better than your score. I don’t see how the lner lounge was not as good as the avanti one either. Pendolinos are, or at least were fab. Avanti/first are not customer driven like virgin were and lner are. Enjoyed your vid but I’m firmly in the lner camp.
I slipped up with the standard premium avanti thing earlier this year as well , bought a seat frog upgrade going south from Glasgow thinking it was first class , of course with the no food thing when I got on realised it wasn’t .
Brilliant video Mark. Avanti are great for comfort but the reliability is so questionable. London to Scotland I always prefer LNER. King’s Cross over Euston any day. And those stunning east coast views. Have always found LNER‘s service to be excellent but have to agree the ride quality of the Azumas is a little rough. The 125, back in the day, much smoother.
@@jamesdoe1479 cheers James. Living over in the west it’s obvs a lot easier for me to take the WCML, otherwise yep I agree Kings Cross is much better than Euston. And the further north you go, the better the scenery gets (on both lines). 👍
Awesome video buddy from Alan in Lowestoft buddy 😊
Cheers Alan 😊👍
Great video 😊 enjoyed watching this. I love riding with avanti west coast you can find some truly great value for money tickets.. shame about LNER tho there tickets are pretty steep at times..
😅😅😅lol noticed you mentioned about first class. I do that sometimes on GWR in 10 car sets lmao😅
Cheers Luke. I guess advance tickets are key. So expensive if you need them on the day (with AWC anyway).
@LetsMakeaTrip yeah avanti west coast are a bit of a RIP if you buy them anywhere close to the day. For me I have a lot of AWC booked for August and I have booked all of them 1 month in advance. And certainly not in 1st lol. As standard premium is way cheaper for the same seating :)
I am well into my 70's with a lot of arthritis and nerve damage problems which don't go together well with ANY public transport seating and can be quite disabling. I recently had the misfortune to travel by train from Liverpool to Inverness via Edinburgh. Avanti/West Coast from Liverpool to Edinburgh - no problem.
LNER from Edinburgh to Inverness (via Aberdeen) was probably the worst rail journey I have had in many a year. With their new rolling stock, which they were proudly announcing every time the bloody doors opened, LNER have finally perfected a railway carriage seat in which it is actually impossible to adopt a comfortable position. I know, because I spent 3 hours trying and when I arrived in Inverness I was barely able to walk.
I'm flying next time - even if it does mean going to Manchester Airport, - which is a whole other bag of nightmares.
Thanks Mark. Another great video. Such a pity that the seats on these new Hitachi trains are so uncomfortable.
Yep, cheers Wes. Not sure I’d fancy them all the way up from London!
Chill videos as always mate ☯️
Cheers Sean 😊👍
*Aberdeen* is a CRIMINALLY *UNDERRATED* Scottish 🏴 City 🏙️, innit?!
Don't mention the city centre now, the bus gates etc have ruined it. Yep, the bus and train station have been closer since Union Square's opening. Before Union Square, you had to ensure you got the toilet at the train station as you had to cross the car park to get to the old bus station. When you needed the loo at the old Aberdeen bus station, it was open whilst the ticket office was open and there was only one, if the ticket office was closed, you had to walk across cobbled streets to get to the trains.
One of my big gripes about LNER London to Aberdeen is that becomes a local commuter service between Edinburgh and Aberdeen which adds significantly to the journey time, surely an national rail service should only really be stopping at Dundee and maybe at push Arbroath and Brechin.
I have travelled that route a lot to Aberdeen in the past, I think one of the issues is that the line becomes single track at points and so limits the number of services that can be run hence why the LNER service is more akin to a local stopping service north of Edinburgh.
R u ok, you are slurring your words , love going on train journeys , take care ❤
Great video as always Mark..sometimes these kinda trips are difficult to truely compare as for eg not sitting in equal type of seats... but the ride quality is deffo one i agree with The Azuma ive found to be horrible and the seats not 1st class mind are back breaking concrete ..do not like the trains at all..fare wise does seem the advance upto an hour if offered on Avanti would be a game changer however they lack staff and many trains are cancelled ...ive no idea which is worse but both could and should be vastly improved on what they offer for me
A very honest review thank you. How can Avanti justify that price. It would have put me off using the service. No wonder the train was empty. LNER may have been better if you could get a different seat?
Good idea going by avanti but should have gone to Aberdeen by soottish rail ( better train seats and probably as cheap as lner)
Crewe - nearly my home town
I got quoted £400.20 for a 1st Class return from York to London Kings X, last month. Then they wonder why people drive.
Terrible price. York-London is one of those routes where LNER capitalises on demand ... especially at busy times.
£400!! Wow, would’ve been cheaper to buy an Interrail ticket for the outbound/inbound legs alone. Crazy!
Really enlightening video Mark. Yes Avanti's 1st class is too expensive on this regional route. Standard premium (like airline premium Y) is far better value. Avanti easily beats LNER here although the former comes at a hefty price.
Hi Mark another great video i agree with you the 390 is superior to a zoomer if the TPE service is more reliable the Avanti there is something wrong there for sure as TPE arnt great for cancelling services keep the videos coming 👍🏻
A great review!
Cheers Archie
My thoughts on the best one comes down simply to the beer they provide on board🤣. While I do like Avanti's First and their Tilting Ale and Camp-a-choo-choo can of beer, but LNER's first (used to at least) serve the Hop on Board Ale, that was a nice beer!
Grand video comparing the products, shame about the seat on the LNER, don't think I would have put up with it for that one either!
Looking forward to your next one!
Good point. The LNER beer is better!
@@JohnnyHooverTravels it is, can't beat a proper beer on a train!
Cheers guys. What I would say is the TfW business premier service might have the edge with the beer?
@@LetsMakeaTrip but do you have to pay extra for that like their first class services ?
@@LetsMakeaTrip I'm seeing a short video "UK train beers go head to head" 🤣
Great video Mark I really enjoyed watching this video. I agree with you with your views on the Avanti West Coast 390 I travelled on one last week between Birmingham New Street to Preston while on my way to Workington in Cumbria for a film premiere "The Ballad of Lucy Sands" my dad is one of the main cast (He's called Isaac Bird in the film)and I travelled up to Preston with a Class 390 and I found even standard class was very comfortable and I had a longer journey on the return to Cornwall from Carlisle to Birmingham New Street on a Class 390 in Standard Class and it was incredibly busy every seat was taken and I was holding alot of luggage so that journey wasn't as great but the train was clean, comfortable and on time with the onboard staff being very friendly and evening announcing people on the train that someone has lost their phone so hopefully that person got their phone back but I really enjoyed Avanti West Coast standard class actually apart from it was busy but the people weren't shouting etc which is good. I haven't been a a LNER IET but the seats that you explained are similar to the seats in standard class and the IET's ain't the most comfortable trains unfortunately as the GWR IET's can be uncomfortable aswell. But to be fair any train can have a uncomfortable seat even HST's I have been on HST's before and some can be more uncomfortable then others but overall HST's had alot more softness then the IET's with them seats being alot harder because of their design. It is a shame that the IET's can be uncomfortable as I see them being really good and comfortable trains but the railway companies need to improve their seats as they are not designed to be for long distance trains such as Edinburgh to London or London to Penzance.
Cheers Al, yep I mainly travel AWC in standard class and it’s absolutely fine. Got one down to London this weekend actually. Overall, I would take the HST’s and that is another option between the Scottish cities isn’t it. I may do one or two more of them while I can. Thanks mate 👍
@@LetsMakeaTrip That would be nice if you made a review on the Scotrail Inter7City HST's you should also do a review on the Great Western Railway Castle Set HST's aswell which are being cut back with the amount of services as they used to operate to Cardiff Central from Penzance but you can only see them between Penzance and Plymouth now. Which I do travel on them every now and again when I make trainspotting videos on the channel I run and they are really nice comfortable, quiet, decent leg room aswell (I'm 6ft 3 around abouts that anyway) so that would be nice if you did the Scotrail and GWR HST's. I did see your XC HST trip from Bristol to Exeter which was then followed by a GWR IET review from Exeter to Penzance which I really enjoyed them videos so thank you for your amazing work and sharing the experiences with perhaps some people won't really experience for example I probably will never travel on a Scotrail HST in their time but always nice when people share what you do so thank you.
Hi great video. You said you were travelling on a inter rail ticket can you use that anywhere in the UK.
If you live in the UK, you have 2 days - an outbound and inbound day (theoretically because you’re heading to other European countries.
Did 1st Class from Preston to Portsmouth on 5 to 8 July for the centenary celebration of my Grammar School near Portsmouth. Avanti from Preston to Euston and back excellent, South Western from Waterloo to Portsmouth not very good at all. Not even a glass of water! Arrived back in Blackpool with Covid and feel crap!
Tallyho! Mark. One used Avanti a few times, To manchester and Liverpool, the views are bloody gorgeous.
Cheers Gary and thanks for the comment 😊
I did use Avanti West Coast between London and Birmingham on my way to Shrewsbury last april, but that line I had used it between Preston and London via Wigan when there still was Virgin Trains.
LNER instead I used it a few times between London and Leeds, and between Newcastle and Edinburgh, using both the HST and Azuma trains.
Totally agree with your points and indeed Avanti's First Class option is extortionate
Cheers Enrico, yep, in hindsight I could’ve given Avanti 1 or 0 for value for money though you can get some better advance fares booking a lot earlier. Like I said though, it’s a risky business with them as half the time you’ll find the train’s been cancelled later on!
@@LetsMakeaTrip indeed the frequent cancellations perfectly reflect the fact that they are partially owned by Trenitalia, which also has a few delays and cancellations every now and then.
With my London to Birmingham Avanti train it was on time and was able to get it for a good £25 and it was lovely, but still we can agree that they have seen better times
You can't really score based on just one journey each operator. Azumas get a bad reputation for comfort, Avanti for reliability. Sometimes you are lucky, sometimes not.
Hi Mark another great video i have travelled Avanti a few times and always enjoy travelling on the 390s. The Azuma are a different matter very cheap and Nasty uncomfortable trains.
Great video Mark! Just wondering if you miss the Avanti to Shrewsbury service? I know it featured in a few of your videos but has it effected you hugely?
It hasn’t affected me hugely no. I could always do it cheaper by changing and the times were just a bit inconvenient (for me). If TfW biz class went, I’d miss that!
@@LetsMakeaTrip Definitely need to try the TFW business zone. It is a shame you have to pay for food and ticket though!
Great comparison video Mark 👍 That price on Avanti is almost unbelievable... if it weren't for real. I'm going to drop you an email soon to your business enquiries address published on here. Read your post about sponsorship and i have a few observations I'd like to feedback to you - hopefully all positive.
Cheers Shane, yes please drop me an email . Feedback most welcome 👍
@@LetsMakeaTrip email sent...... ;-)
I was just checking the Britrail pass for 22 days 1st class...now $1224 cdn not bad for use on all trains in England, Scotland & Wales.. thats around 700 quid...last time I used one was years ago paid $600 Cdn & calculated if I had purchased every ticket for each seperate journey it would havr been about 5,000 quid
Working it out to just over £30 a day I agree, that’s really good value for 1st 👍
If I was travelling on a ticket like yours I would say Avanti was the much better hard and soft product. The Azumas have been a disappointment but seems to be the norm for new trains recently. Funny you should see the Northern Belle as I am booked on there in late November from Sheffield to Edinburgh up the East Coast and whilst their price is high it looks great value to the walk on Avanti fare.
I have yet to travel on one of these special trains but they do look fantastic and I think there’s definitely scope for a video or two on the channel. I must look into it but in the meantime, have a great trip! 👍
Avanti expensive and cancellation issues atm. LNER rubbish trains. Advantages and disadvantages of both. The deep leather armchairs in first class on the mark 3s that used to run on both routes were wonderful and the trains were just as fast. Progress?
Excellent 🥇🥇🥇🥇👍👍👍👍👍🍾🍾🍾🍾
Thanks Derisley, appreciate the comment as per usual 😊👍
The seat comfort on Avanti is second to none but I'm not a fan of the Pendolinos personally. They're better after the refurb but generally feel very claustrophobic, not helped by the tiny windows.
LNER isn't the best for comfort but I normally find their food and drink offering to be the best by far. I like that the Azumas feel more airy and open but their interior layout is absolutely horrendous.
Thanks Mark for yet another exceptional video, I find your videos & the way that you present them both interesting & inspirational, never dull & presented with honesty, humour & energy, waiting for the next one to appear each Friday is something that I eagerly look forward to, I'm suffering with a few health issues at present Mark so it really does lift me immensely when I watch your videos, in fact I've watched most of them over & over again.
Tell me Mark is this just a hobby or your full time work as I marvel at how you could possibly do your videos & hold down a full time job if that is the case ? Thanks Mark & keep up the good work my friend 👍
Are the fares you mentioned full adult fares or discounted with a Senior Citizens Railcard?
Full adult fares
Great video. How do you make the route graphic?
Mult.dev app on ios.
The Avanti pricing is terrible, at least Dick Turpin had the courtesy to wear a mask. Nice scenery and a fairly enjoyable journey all round, till next time take care and stay safe.
I think you consciously or unconsciously carried out a risk assessment on that bag and decided it wasn't a threat.
Mons Meg is the 1 o'clock gun fired from Edinburgh Castle.
Yes a massive cannon iirc. Remember reading about it at school 👍
Mark, the HST service 1st class on both this and highland chieftain were 1st class , azuma destroyed it on comfort etc
And a better ride too I suspect. Not sure atm what Scotrail have got to offer in 1st? Any food/drink?
Great vid. To be honest i live in Scotland and never travelled either. I fly south rather than take train. I did think LNER Edinburgh tae Aiberdeen price deserved 5 stars rather than 4 for what you are getting. Compared to Scotrail’s very poor/non existent first class offering at extortionate cost on intercity services, i’d have called this vid a 24 all draw.
Apparently, i was told by an LNER train manager that they are actually changing the head rests due to customer feedback, but well have to see.
Interesting. And I’m not surprised tbh, they probably all slip down after a while. Wear and tear etc.
yay im first hope its a good one as usual🙃
LNER'S 1ST CLASS LOUNGE OFFER IS NOT WHAT IT ONCE WAS, NEITHER IS THE ON BOARD FOOD AND DRINK.
I’d be keen to know what they used to serve in the lounge at Waverley. Not much on offer for the day I was there. Nice quiet space though tbf.
I’ll go into First Class on Avanti when I can’t find a seat and not feel bad about it, should be the basic principle of travel being allowed to sit down!
I agree, everyone should be able to sit down. What would you say to the guard though?
I would never do a cheeky first class upgrade. Terrible. That said, in my formative years, I may have done Congleton to Piccadilly on slam door trains free by hopping off at Macc and Cheadle Hulme on the way and running to the other end of the train away from the conductor 😂 Didn’t do it much. Just every weekend. I miss the late 80s/early 90s. Nice video and trip! Train up to Aberdeen to get a flight though - the lengths people go to to avoid Manchester Airport 😉
Haha, cheers Kev. Yep, I remember jumping on a dmu from Wolves as it was leaving the station. The train stopped and I got told off. They let me back on it though. I got up to loads of stuff in the 80’s tbh - too much to confess on here! 🤣
great video but cost difference a real factor. how do we get people out of cars with those prices!!!
Yep, I mean advance prices with AWC wouldn’t be that much but not everyone can book weeks ahead. So they run almost empty carriages. It needs sorting.
Think the may be reserved later is just a warning for people travelling from down south incase someone books halfway through the journey and takes a seat. Bare in mind how long the journey is
I think they can be reserved up to 5 mins before departure reading some of the comments here 😊
Personally, i find avanti first class better in general compares to LNER but i prefer to travel with LNER. Avanti offer nicer meals services, better lounges and better first class service from the hosts in my opinion and the ride quality is so much better on the west coast compared to the east especially the section between york and Newcastle which is horrendous for ride quality but LNER are generally cheaper and more reliable and the service is still good just doesnt have that bit extra that avanti offer.
Leaving aside the issue of the rolling stock LNER got stuck with thanks to the morons at the DFT East vs west was a wash untill Avanti took over the west Coast route and ruined it, prices are clearly designed to keep passenger numbers down to the match the number of staff they are prepared to employ.....as Avanti are now also getting Hitachi trains the rolling stock issues are also going to get balanced out somewhat although to the negative...
This was interesting. But unlike horsehollerer on the journey in their comment, you were not comparing like with like. The Avanii train was unsurprisingly, given the stations it served, extremely quiet, and as you were for most of the way the only passenger in first class, you had excellent at seat service. Equally unsurprisingly, a train serving London, Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen was busy. Yet, except perhaps for the biscuits, you had good at seat service. As for the bag of rubbish, I would, before I settled into my seat, 'sorted it' by depositing it in one of the rubbish bins in the vestibule.
Thanks, appreciate the feedback and take your points. 👍
I agree
The biscuit saga, the staff probably assumed that you'd heard them offered to others and would have asked for them if required. The lack of hot food would have annoyed me, even popperty ping food better than nothing hot. Some sort of buffet service should be available for first class other than a cold trolley.
It’s microwaved on Avanti but yes still better than cold food imo. And assuming I don’t want biscuits? That’ll be the day 😂 cheers Tony
On the flip side ref seat comfort Pendolino vs Hitachi the Pendolinos unfortunately consistently manage to pong out carriages with chemical toilet smell......
Up to Aberdeen? My home city