This was one of your best videos! I’m really interested in learning more about this hobby from the electronics side. I always learn something and am impressed with your problem solving. Hopefully you stick with it!!
The algorithm suggested this to me today. I own a Willsenton R300 (8WPC SET) via Focal Chora 826 speakers (91db efficient, nice neutral profile to let the tubes shine) and love tubes in general for the holographic imaging as well as a retro aesthetic. Subscribed to hopefully help you continue.
Very educational. Judging just by how the two amplifiers looked, at first I thought I would like the larger more complex push-pull amplifier. But after listening to them both, I thought the smaller single ended amplifier sounded more realistic and more pleasant to listen to in all the comparisons.
Yeah, size and flashy gives can be deceiving. A friend had me build him an amp. He has La Scalas, which are super efficient. After a bunch of back and forth, I strongly suggested a single-ended amp similar to the one in the video. It's really all the power he'll ever need, and the sound is so sweet.
Interesting comparison I've never been pushed toward your channel before so I've subscribed from the UK always interested in all things tube. I hope you continue Thanks👍🏽
They are worth watching, just found your channel and subbed. Problem is the algorithm takes a long time before suggesting you. Maybe ask a channel with more subscribers how they played the algorithm. It could be as simple as doing your measurements last. Don't give up, for me the content is well worth watching. Specially anything using anything Harman Kardon is very interesting as the majority of my system is vintage hk citation, some bought new, getting old 😂
Would you agree that not all single ended sound better than push pull, design and implementation are crucial tube selection is critical. The single ended may have been a better match for the speakers used, there are so many variables. I have a beautiful old British Grant Lumley ST70 stereo power amp that I've just completely recapped and renovated to a very high standard. It has a wonderful sound in both Ultra linear and triode mode, in the former it proces 70wats per channel into 8 ohms. It weighs as much as a truck, It's now good to go for another half century and I will never part from it whatever else I have going forward. Keep up the good work and the channel will get there🙌🏾
Yes, design and components (tubes, iron) are key, not to mention speaker selection. My currently favorite amp is PP with EL84 outputs and Dynaco iron (Z565, used in the SCA-35 and ST-35). That Dynaco iron is getting hard to come by, though.
hearing both these amps. Outside of the transformers going "muddy" with high levels of bass. This gives me ideas on what I would like to do in the future building an amp. The SE has the crisp highs, where as the PP has the lows had a harder punch per se. I wonder if the Leslie 51c design in a stereo configuration would be a fun little project if built right. This gives me ideas. Great video, thanks!🤔
I just wanted to let you know that I enjoy your videos and I have subscribed. You did a good job of explaining the technical differences between SE and PP and you backed them up with illustrative sound samples. SE vs PP is such a personal preference thing. I admit I still prefer PP with big iron. Because I listen to a really wide variety of music (Hard Rock, Rock, country, folk and classical music with an emphasis on classical organ works) I rely on my Mcintosh MC275 to power my Klipsch Cornwall speakers. For male and female vocals I like my Marantz 8B or my MC30. When I want syrupy warmth (Bing Crosby or Frank Sinatra) I go to the Fisher 400 with it's smaller yet still substantial output transformers. Perhaps for male and female vocals I would consider a single ended amp. I'm still on the fence about that. Dcgillespie is a genius and explains difficult concepts well. I'd never be able to wrap my head around the Mcintosh Unity Coupled circuit without his help. Anyways, please keep the videos coming.
Thanks! That's an enviable selection of amps! Growing up, my dad had a Mac and giant-sized efficient speakers. But when the time came, I'd already agreed to take the grand piano, which now sits unplayed and our of tune. ☹️
I use a JE Labs el34se with a Cambridge Soundworks acoustic suspension sub. Solves the low bass/high volume distortion problem nicely. Hard to get good bass on high efficiency speakers that are usually used with low power tube amps.
All good designs sound good with the right equipment. It's when they operate outside of their limits or when improper system matching happens is where the problems begin to show.
Very true. And that's largely why I don't make strong statements about superiority of one or the other. I built an amp for a friend. He has La Scalas in a small room, so he'll never need more than about 1 wpc, and the obvious choice was single-ended. If he wants to provide sound for a block party, he has a good solid state amp.
Neat video, I have a custom PP 1 watt power amp I had made (I play electric bass), negative feedback control, gain (which really just pushes the phase inverter), and to get to my point, a control which blends back and forth from triode and pentode. I feel I get more of a difference between those two, as the fade changes its amazing how the character is affected. I also have a bass guitar pedal which has the same blend, but from a tetrode and pentode. Of course I'm going for a slight breakup/distorted sound, buts it's amazing being able to adjust that aspect. I've seen switches for "low power mode", but never a blend. It's really fun, worth a shot for anyone wanting to hear that definite different when moving into ultralinear
Interesting! I would think you'd have issues with arcing. On one of my SE amps, I can switch between pentode and triode and turn negative feedback on or off. I destroyed the first pair of switches by using them with the amp on. You haven't run into that sort of issue? Maybe it's only a problem when trying to break contact, and pots don't have that issue. Cool.
@Lancaster Hi-Fi I have a pot for both feedback amount and the blend back and forth, I'm not positive on the topologies as I just came to the builder with the ideas, but no problems. It's simple, input, line level output, speaker out (about 1 watt), and headphone out. Custom wound Toroidal output transformer rated down to 20hz really makes the difference, via headphone and line level, the speaker out is more for bedroom practice. I wanted something that wound inject power amp saturation but not have to use a 100lb 300watt head and giant attenuator/load. I reamp this little guy on one channel on my mixer, apply as needed. But it's become much more than that, even without an actual preamp section, it sounds great just by itself, at the end of an effects board, or behind any of my tube preamps. Its so neat to hear how the tube changes when blending back and forth. Arkham Sound out of Maine is who built it, great guy, he specializes in custom/original NOS turret wired gear, and point-to-point stuff.
@@edwardbrown561 That sounds (ha!) awesome. (And output transformers really are key to getting the right kind of distortion at low frequencies!) I'm contemplating a guitar (or bass) amp build. Just harvested a tube (and tank) reverb from an old Packard Bell "Space-Age Stereo" console. It'll be in a new video premiering this afternoon. I'm harvesting a couple of other units from an old reel-to-reel deck, which has a separate preamp for an external speaker--or something like that. I still haven't fully wrapped my head around what it's got going on.
Subscribed Sir! This is the same thing happening in my actual career as a maint tech in a News TVStation. Bought up by a Gigantic Corporate i'm in my later years so retirement is looking like an ever increasing desire. The reason, it's now more important that i cease repairing/faultfinding an issue on an ENG camera while i can have thing at my bench but i MUST complete a DEI online course unit by today & be online with Zoom.... It's a fricken joke i no longer can do my work which is fix the stuff other staffmates need to do their work intime they go shoot the story for tonights News... I will i am fearful will give up! Nice olde music choices thanks!
This was a great demo and I definitely took quite a bit a way from this. For starters, I didn't think that a 3 watt amp could compete with a 10 watt one. But when listening to the clips, I was blown away with how good the DG-SE1 amplifier sounds. The sound stage was open and it had very good stereo separation. The BV-6V6 had a more constrained sound and stereo separation was lacking. It had a more anemic sound in the mids and highs. Going back to the SE amp, I was surprised at the bass response at that low power. In this category though, the BV-6V6 had a bit more punch in the low end, but not much. In a nutshell, hands down, I would take the DG-SE1 over the BV-6V6. This wasn't the first time that I was taken aback by an SE amplifier and it confirms that when it comes to tube amps, I definitely prefer an SE amplifier over push pull. Usually push pull amplifiers utilize feedback, and this can give an amp that anemic sound. To clarify, they sound more like a solid state amplifier. Thus, given their higher complexity and cost, I would mostly delegate push pull amplifiers for higher power needs, such as a guitar amplifier. For a home stereo that needs high power, a good quality tube pre-amp going into a solid state amp is fine enough for me. But for the joy of going all tube the SE amplifiers certainly do give much more to the sound. Granted I would have to see the schematics for both amplifiers to confirm if the good sound of the DG-SE1 is the circuit design. If the EL84 tubes are run as triode and the circuit has no feedback, that could be the reason why it sounds so good. The 6V6 amp is probably run in pentode mode and probably needs lots of feedback to keep the distortion low. In the end the SE amp wins out. I would definitely like to see the schematic on that one. As for your channel, I hope you do continue it. This was a great demonstration, and I am going to stick around a bit to see some of your other clips. If I like what I see, I definitely will subscribe. A good clip might be to do an AB comparison between the 6V6 amp and a solid state amplifier of the same power to determine which sounds better. I see you have one that demonstrates triode and pentode amps and that is where I am going next!
Both amps have the output tubes connected in pentode mode, and both utilize negative feedback. I think most people will still prefer the SE amp, so the question is why. I admit that I don't know, but I can point to a few things. Maybe EL84's just sounds better, but why? They do have higher open loop gain than 6V6's, so it's possible to employ more negative feedback and still get full power. The tubes on the input stage are also different, 6EU7 for the DG-SE1, 6DJ8 for the BV-6V6. The 6DJ8 has lower gain, so that was another factor reducing the amount of negative feedback employed. The 6EU7 has higher distortion, so maybe the distortion that survives the negative feedback sounds pleasant. The push-pull circuit cancels out 2nd-order harmonic distortion. With the limitations on negative feedback mentioned above, maybe the 3rd-order harmonic distortion that survives the negative feedback sounds less pleasant. Finally, I didn't have the 6V6 tubes in the BV-6V6 biased correctly. D'oh! That can't have helped the sound of that amp. (They're correctly biased now, of course.)
BTW, there is a comparison of the Beaver Valley amp with a solid state amp of similar power in one of my videos. It's the hour-long version of my "tube curious" video, and the comparison is toward the end. The solid state is a Pioneer SX-440 that I modified to have pre-out and main-in jacks. I compared its built-in power amp to the Beaver Valley and used the SX-440 preamp in both cases.
I have waited a long time for such a video! Voices sound somehow much clearer, better defined and more filigreed on single ended amplifiers. Single ended also sounds less plastic, more clear and detailed. But! On Push-Pull everything sounds more balanced, less shrill than Single Ended and above all more powerful, more rounded in all frequencies. For classic music with a lot of treble, I would prefer the Single Ended. For modern music with lot of bass, like rock, pop and electronic music, Push Pull is the better choice. Personally, however, I always prefer push-pull, yes for sound reasons(balancedness), but on the other hand also for other reasons - the choice of operating class is not limited to Class A, so that the efficiency (current consumption/usable power) can be increased and the tube wear can be significantly reduced. For this reason, the advantages of push-pull are so overwhelming for me that I no longer connect single-ended amplifiers on my speakers.
I know what you mean about voices on SE amps. My first time listening to my first SE amp was a jaw-dropping experience. Then my jaw dropped again when I first listened to my best PP amp (not the one featured in this video). Actually my jaw dropped before listening, when testing showed that it could deliver full power down to 20 Hz. Getting full power bass with SE amps requires huge iron. So I use an SE amp on my desktop in the office and a PP amp at home (actually two: one in the bedroom and the best one in my home office/workshop/man cave).
I like both SE and PP but I naturally just go back to SE most of the time. I have some vintage PP receivers from the late 50's early 60's and I need to make use of them and they sound excellent with the right speakers but I still love SE better. I mean what's not to love? The sound is clearer (to me) and one can save more money not having to buy so many tubes. I have never really found the bass lacking in SE either especially with the right speakers and normal volume levels. edit, with vinyl the phono stage can make a very big impact too.
Hi there - very much enjoyed this video - have subscribed. Hard to tell over my phone or tablet which is best - I veer towards the SE but that may just be personal bias. I have a Willsenton R300 and a Prima Luna EVO400i integrated. I listen almost exclusively to the 300b SE - I prefer the sound - even though 7wpc compared to 70wpc ( ultralinear ) may seem insane ! I have Tekton 2-10 Perfect Set speakers with a REL 100w sub which probably really helps the 300b bass performance. More like this please.
what efficiency are you Speakers?... I have a pair of Dali Rubicon 6 BE and they are only 88.5 db efficiency... so I don't think that single ended low wattage would push my speakers good enough??
Still, at lower volumes (and by that I just mean not very loud), even one watt can make beautiful music. But efficient speakers are nice! I just got a pair of Wharfedale W70D's, and the higher efficiency is noticeable. And lovely!
You'll want to stay tuned, then. Yesterday, I got a bunch of footage comparing the L730's to a pair of Tannoy Monitor Golds (as well as AR4X's). I was pleased to find that the Tannoys didn't blow the ADS's out of the water in every circumstance.
Yeah, it's going to be a tough one to edit. Since the owner of the Tannoys was also a customer, I didn't want to impose or take away from his experience, so I just left the camera running. LOTS of footage, most of which needs to be edited out.
In my opinion - the best is push-pull.Firstly ,this amp is more efficient. Secondly - the amplifier can control moving of a cone of speaker forward and backward.Thirdly, there is not any current through a transformer when silence - as a result we have compact transformer with low leakage inductance without any air gaps.
Those are all valid scientific explanations but which one really sounds better? To me the SE had better sound imaging. The PP to me, while perhaps had better bass potential, sounded more echoy and stuck inside a box. The SE seemed to project out of that box.
Hi great video Sir. As a longtime tube amp builder and lp collector it looks to me that your speakers may be the weak link. I find that ultra hi efficiency speakers show off tube amps the best like vintage altec or jbl speakers with alnico magnets. Cheers
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi Get some Klipsch Heresy speakers. My friend has a pair and he plays all his tube amps through them and I have never been disappointed. They sound great with everything.
Nice to hear metallica and dinosaur through tubes albeit via youtube. I am toying with the idea of trying tubes , the SE amp surprised me in a good way. i think i preferred it of the two, just wondered if it lacked bass heft. would be interested in knowing whether you think a valve pre and solid state power would be a way of getting more "heft" whilst keeping the airiness? I guess there's always a compromise somewhere. thanks again for the comparison.
I haven't tried a tube pre with solid state power. Given the difference I've heard when spicing from tube power to solid state power with the same solid state pre, I'm skeptical that the clarity of the tube pre would survive passage through a solid state power amp. But I don't know.
It's always difficult to capture the true sound of a system through RUclips, but of the two amps I thought that the SE sounded more open on the high frequency end and the drum hit on the Rickie Lee album had more impact.
RUclips use to be a place where you cam learn something and share ideas, great job! Any recommendations for bookshelve size speakers that work with 2 watt set amps?
Thanks! There are so many speakers, and so few that I've heard! The short answer is that any speakers of moderate (e.g., 87 dB) to high sensitivity will probably sound good. You just won't be able to play at high volume unless you use high-efficiency speakers. A client/friend who bought one of my amps uses Tannoy Monitor Gold bookshelf speakers, and the combination is pretty amazing, but those are amazing speakers!
Yeah, I've worked hard at prettying that TT up. It was a basket case (peeling vinyl veneer, cracked cover) when I got it. I do have a video on the restoration of that TT.
great demonstration Single-Ended was more balanced better bass .Push-Pull is mid range prominent yeh it plays louder but not to my liking .Suggest put album cover or cd cover in video to see what your playing at the time.
That's a good suggestion. I would have placed the sleeve on the dust cover if I hadn't decided I liked the shot better without the reflection from the dust cover. Then I didn't have a convenient place to put the sleeve. 🤔
This is one of the best and informative HiFi tube amp video I've seen. Nothing so perfect but I really like the way how it was explained in his own "real self opinion" right down to the points. I hardly subscribe from anyone because most of them just love to talk with zero skills. From right here, I can hear a huge difference between both amps and looking at the big picture, I cannot say one is better than the other for it really depends on the sound application I'm after after for. The 6V6 sounds warmer while the EL84 is has more magic midrange. Even though the EL84 has the brilliancy, the 6V6 sounds more versatile to me. I own a 300b SE and PP. Alot of people claim that SE is better. It can be true I wont really say that would be the case in the real world. ..with the SE even so, I am limited in its music application, speaker selections and I found myself using the PP more because realistically I need a bit more power than 8 watts to respectfully drive even a high sensitivity speakers to its maximum potential. So bottom line to me is they both sound excellent and that's exactly what I hear from these amps. This is great and I just subscribed now. I'll follow this up with my buddies a the hi-end hi fidelity form in SHF. By the way, The Bread is a super talented band. I love all of them but Jimmy Griffin will always be my boy. Thanks. R.
In comparison, to me the single ended amp sounded more open and dynamic (especially with the classical pieces). The push/pull amp sounded a little like I put my fingers into my ears, though they both sounded great. My listening system consist of a Heathkit AA30 EL84 powered "push/pull" amp and Klipsch Hereseys. Thanks for the video.
After the very first song it was obvious (for me) that PP sound in this particular case way better than the SE. May be if we took 300B or some of GMxx a SE sounded better, but this vid SE is not them. PS And then you made the SE louder to save the situation )))))
PP má presný dynamický zvuk pevné basy a čisté výšky. SE má oveľa čistejšie stredné pásmo. Veľká pomoc a zlepšenie by bolo pre SE keby spodné pásmo bolo odfiltrované a použil by sa klasický subwoofer D class. Tlačiť basovú zložku triedou A je plytvanie energiou, ktorá má plný potenciál na strednom a vysokom pásme.
I've had a lot of GG in my videos, but I've been neglecting my 80's indie rock. (Here's how poorly produced hardcore sounds! Hm. Maybe that's an idea for a video!) I saw Dinosaur in Boston when they were first touring YLAOM. I hadn't heard of them yet, but a friend said I should go see them with him. Hoe-Lee Shee-hit! I think I bought the album the next day. Didn't expect it could really do justice to the live show, but I was pleasantly surprised! I think I saw them two more times in Boston.
next time try to use opamp to drive your 6bq5, you will get supprised. I have used rc4580 as phase splitter for my homebuild 6bq5, it almost sound like headphone to me(sounds very time accurate to me). totally different animal.
Really? Interesting idea. Not sure I have the guys to try it. Maybe someday. I've thought of using op-amps as buffer stages since input and output impedances are often difficult issues with tube stages.
yes, and you will easily make your audio path free of capacitor. The quality of DC bypass capacitor between stages is a big deal for final result (time accuracy, phase shift, etc). good luck @@Lancaster_Hi-Fi
I know the "whining" is tiresome and cringe and all that, but I've gotten more subs on this video than any other, including one with 5X the views. That said, I can't bring myself to throw a big pity party for every video.
Listening tests are fine if you're there otherwise on RUclips it seems a waste. Personally I would much prefer to hear your judgements and thoughts on what the differences are otherwise it's a waste of time for everyone. I'm interested in finding way to transfer all that knowledge inside your brain to me and no doubt you wanna share otherwise it's good
Ha! Yeah, I'm just psyched to have reached 1K subscribers. It seemed out of the blue that one of my vids got 13K views or so. Hey! I solved the algorithm! Next vid, less than 1K views. Sigh. Anyway, hit me up via email if you want to talk about an amp.
I listen with MDR-7506'S so neutral.I have heard MUCH better sound on You Tube [You and your friend ] Your speakers are shouty, no bass and the midrange shouts! No offence meant.
No offense taken. The weak link in the sound is the recording equipment, which is just my Samsung phone. Its mics are decent for a phone, but still . . . . And the speakers may not be to your taste. Some prefer ADS over all else. I actually prefer my other ADS speakers, which are two-way rather than 3. I've also noticed the shoutiness of the ones on the video.
That's generally true, buts is not that simple. My views dropped off a cliff at a time when I was posting more frequently. The videos didn't do well, and impressions dropped across the board, even on older videos that had been doing well up to that point.
What a lot of nonsense. It's like this. A SE driving the right sensitivity speaker, and as well the amp and speaker are of high quality. The SE's will beat every PP. Like I own a Audio Note OTO SE amp driving TL 1 meter high speaker filled with the top line units from AN, I can't even turn the volume to 12 O Clock, unless I want the Police come and visit me.
This was one of your best videos! I’m really interested in learning more about this hobby from the electronics side. I always learn something and am impressed with your problem solving. Hopefully you stick with it!!
Thanks for the encouragement! 😁
agree!
Thanks!
The CD's really popped! Very fun. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Bravo ... great presentation.
Well done.
Thank You!
This channel is so helpful . Thank you for helping young kids like me
Happy to help!
Keep up the great work. Please continue. Just found your channel!
Thanks!
The algorithm suggested this to me today. I own a Willsenton R300 (8WPC SET) via Focal Chora 826 speakers (91db efficient, nice neutral profile to let the tubes shine) and love tubes in general for the holographic imaging as well as a retro aesthetic. Subscribed to hopefully help you continue.
Thanks!
I own Prima Luna too and wondering what are the major reason you like 300b? I was thinking of R300 as well!
Very educational. Judging just by how the two amplifiers looked, at first I thought I would like the larger more complex push-pull amplifier. But after listening to them both, I thought the smaller single ended amplifier sounded more realistic and more pleasant to listen to in all the comparisons.
Yeah, size and flashy gives can be deceiving. A friend had me build him an amp. He has La Scalas, which are super efficient. After a bunch of back and forth, I strongly suggested a single-ended amp similar to the one in the video. It's really all the power he'll ever need, and the sound is so sweet.
Flashy TUBES ... autocorrect, sheesh!
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi
yes! agree...the SE is so sweet!✌️🎶...it must be the snaller one
Yes.
Ya...now I realized. SE sound superior.. Man..just bought kt88😮 PP
Great video thanks for your time
Interesting comparison I've never been pushed toward your channel before so I've subscribed from the UK always interested in all things tube. I hope you continue Thanks👍🏽
Thanks! And I'm glad the algorithm steered you my way. I find that including the word "best" in the video title helps! 😁🤣
@@lancasterhi-fi3935 indeed it might 😂
The algorithm advertised the video to me and I wasn’t subscribed to you but your comparison of single ended to push pull intrigued me
The algorithm is a fickle beast that so far seems pleased with this video. More importantly, I'm glad you were intrigued!
Likewise - just subscribed
Thanks!
They are worth watching, just found your channel and subbed. Problem is the algorithm takes a long time before suggesting you. Maybe ask a channel with more subscribers how they played the algorithm. It could be as simple as doing your measurements last. Don't give up, for me the content is well worth watching.
Specially anything using anything Harman Kardon is very interesting as the majority of my system is vintage hk citation, some bought new, getting old 😂
Neat. I think I preferred the dg se1 for almost all of the samples. Damn, that Tchaikovsky 4 recording was performed at warp 9!
This channel is fantastic, certainly would hate to lose access to so much marvelous education.
Thanks!
Just discovered your channel. Hope you keep making videos
Thanks!
Would you agree that not all single ended sound better than push pull, design and implementation are crucial tube selection is critical. The single ended may have been a better match for the speakers used, there are so many variables. I have a beautiful old British Grant Lumley ST70 stereo power amp that I've just completely recapped and renovated to a very high standard. It has a wonderful sound in both Ultra linear and triode mode, in the former it proces 70wats per channel into 8 ohms. It weighs as much as a truck, It's now good to go for another half century and I will never part from it whatever else I have going forward. Keep up the good work and the channel will get there🙌🏾
Yes, design and components (tubes, iron) are key, not to mention speaker selection. My currently favorite amp is PP with EL84 outputs and Dynaco iron (Z565, used in the SCA-35 and ST-35). That Dynaco iron is getting hard to come by, though.
hearing both these amps. Outside of the transformers going "muddy" with high levels of bass. This gives me ideas on what I would like to do in the future building an amp. The SE has the crisp highs, where as the PP has the lows had a harder punch per se. I wonder if the Leslie 51c design in a stereo configuration would be a fun little project if built right. This gives me ideas. Great video, thanks!🤔
Very good video. My first view of your channel.
Thanks and welcome
💯 on the Bread album. Tusk is another recording that is fantastic for a pop group.
I just discovered your channel and really enjoyed your content and descriptions. I sure hope you hang in there. Count me in as a new subscriber.
Thanks!
I just wanted to let you know that I enjoy your videos and I have subscribed. You did a good job of explaining the technical differences between SE and PP and you backed them up with illustrative sound samples. SE vs PP is such a personal preference thing. I admit I still prefer PP with big iron. Because I listen to a really wide variety of music (Hard Rock, Rock, country, folk and classical music with an emphasis on classical organ works) I rely on my Mcintosh MC275 to power my Klipsch Cornwall speakers. For male and female vocals I like my Marantz 8B or my MC30. When I want syrupy warmth (Bing Crosby or Frank Sinatra) I go to the Fisher 400 with it's smaller yet still substantial output transformers.
Perhaps for male and female vocals I would consider a single ended amp. I'm still on the fence about that.
Dcgillespie is a genius and explains difficult concepts well. I'd never be able to wrap my head around the Mcintosh Unity Coupled circuit without his help.
Anyways, please keep the videos coming.
Thanks! That's an enviable selection of amps! Growing up, my dad had a Mac and giant-sized efficient speakers. But when the time came, I'd already agreed to take the grand piano, which now sits unplayed and our of tune. ☹️
Respect 🎉🎉🎉damn take a lot of time to make this comparison. Pp is like a thicker line than se. Guess It is personal preference matter.
Cool analogy!
I use a JE Labs el34se with a Cambridge Soundworks acoustic suspension sub. Solves the low bass/high volume distortion problem nicely.
Hard to get good bass on high efficiency speakers that are usually used with low power tube amps.
All good designs sound good with the right equipment. It's when they operate outside of their limits or when improper system matching happens is where the problems begin to show.
Very true. And that's largely why I don't make strong statements about superiority of one or the other. I built an amp for a friend. He has La Scalas in a small room, so he'll never need more than about 1 wpc, and the obvious choice was single-ended. If he wants to provide sound for a block party, he has a good solid state amp.
Neat video, I have a custom PP 1 watt power amp I had made (I play electric bass), negative feedback control, gain (which really just pushes the phase inverter), and to get to my point, a control which blends back and forth from triode and pentode. I feel I get more of a difference between those two, as the fade changes its amazing how the character is affected. I also have a bass guitar pedal which has the same blend, but from a tetrode and pentode. Of course I'm going for a slight breakup/distorted sound, buts it's amazing being able to adjust that aspect. I've seen switches for "low power mode", but never a blend. It's really fun, worth a shot for anyone wanting to hear that definite different when moving into ultralinear
Interesting! I would think you'd have issues with arcing. On one of my SE amps, I can switch between pentode and triode and turn negative feedback on or off. I destroyed the first pair of switches by using them with the amp on. You haven't run into that sort of issue? Maybe it's only a problem when trying to break contact, and pots don't have that issue. Cool.
@Lancaster Hi-Fi I have a pot for both feedback amount and the blend back and forth, I'm not positive on the topologies as I just came to the builder with the ideas, but no problems. It's simple, input, line level output, speaker out (about 1 watt), and headphone out. Custom wound Toroidal output transformer rated down to 20hz really makes the difference, via headphone and line level, the speaker out is more for bedroom practice. I wanted something that wound inject power amp saturation but not have to use a 100lb 300watt head and giant attenuator/load. I reamp this little guy on one channel on my mixer, apply as needed. But it's become much more than that, even without an actual preamp section, it sounds great just by itself, at the end of an effects board, or behind any of my tube preamps. Its so neat to hear how the tube changes when blending back and forth. Arkham Sound out of Maine is who built it, great guy, he specializes in custom/original NOS turret wired gear, and point-to-point stuff.
@@edwardbrown561 That sounds (ha!) awesome. (And output transformers really are key to getting the right kind of distortion at low frequencies!) I'm contemplating a guitar (or bass) amp build. Just harvested a tube (and tank) reverb from an old Packard Bell "Space-Age Stereo" console. It'll be in a new video premiering this afternoon. I'm harvesting a couple of other units from an old reel-to-reel deck, which has a separate preamp for an external speaker--or something like that. I still haven't fully wrapped my head around what it's got going on.
just subscribed! Great Channel!
Thanks!
I love yours "Room sound"
Ha! Yeah, all that clutter and the rafters and pipes overhead actually make it a decent listening (and recording) space.
I own a single-ended amp and l love it 😍
Subscribed Sir! This is the same thing happening in my actual career as a maint tech in a News TVStation. Bought up by a Gigantic Corporate i'm in my later years so retirement is looking like an ever increasing desire. The reason, it's now more important that i cease repairing/faultfinding an issue on an ENG camera while i can have thing at my bench but i MUST complete a DEI online course unit by today & be online with Zoom.... It's a fricken joke i no longer can do my work which is fix the stuff other staffmates need to do their work intime they go shoot the story for tonights News... I will i am fearful will give up! Nice olde music choices thanks!
This was a great demo and I definitely took quite a bit a way from this. For starters, I didn't think that a 3 watt amp could compete with a 10 watt one. But when listening to the clips, I was blown away with how good the DG-SE1 amplifier sounds. The sound stage was open and it had very good stereo separation. The BV-6V6 had a more constrained sound and stereo separation was lacking. It had a more anemic sound in the mids and highs. Going back to the SE amp, I was surprised at the bass response at that low power. In this category though, the BV-6V6 had a bit more punch in the low end, but not much. In a nutshell, hands down, I would take the DG-SE1 over the BV-6V6. This wasn't the first time that I was taken aback by an SE amplifier and it confirms that when it comes to tube amps, I definitely prefer an SE amplifier over push pull. Usually push pull amplifiers utilize feedback, and this can give an amp that anemic sound. To clarify, they sound more like a solid state amplifier. Thus, given their higher complexity and cost, I would mostly delegate push pull amplifiers for higher power needs, such as a guitar amplifier. For a home stereo that needs high power, a good quality tube pre-amp going into a solid state amp is fine enough for me. But for the joy of going all tube the SE amplifiers certainly do give much more to the sound. Granted I would have to see the schematics for both amplifiers to confirm if the good sound of the DG-SE1 is the circuit design. If the EL84 tubes are run as triode and the circuit has no feedback, that could be the reason why it sounds so good. The 6V6 amp is probably run in pentode mode and probably needs lots of feedback to keep the distortion low. In the end the SE amp wins out. I would definitely like to see the schematic on that one. As for your channel, I hope you do continue it. This was a great demonstration, and I am going to stick around a bit to see some of your other clips. If I like what I see, I definitely will subscribe. A good clip might be to do an AB comparison between the 6V6 amp and a solid state amplifier of the same power to determine which sounds better. I see you have one that demonstrates triode and pentode amps and that is where I am going next!
Both amps have the output tubes connected in pentode mode, and both utilize negative feedback. I think most people will still prefer the SE amp, so the question is why. I admit that I don't know, but I can point to a few things. Maybe EL84's just sounds better, but why? They do have higher open loop gain than 6V6's, so it's possible to employ more negative feedback and still get full power. The tubes on the input stage are also different, 6EU7 for the DG-SE1, 6DJ8 for the BV-6V6. The 6DJ8 has lower gain, so that was another factor reducing the amount of negative feedback employed. The 6EU7 has higher distortion, so maybe the distortion that survives the negative feedback sounds pleasant. The push-pull circuit cancels out 2nd-order harmonic distortion. With the limitations on negative feedback mentioned above, maybe the 3rd-order harmonic distortion that survives the negative feedback sounds less pleasant. Finally, I didn't have the 6V6 tubes in the BV-6V6 biased correctly. D'oh! That can't have helped the sound of that amp. (They're correctly biased now, of course.)
BTW, there is a comparison of the Beaver Valley amp with a solid state amp of similar power in one of my videos. It's the hour-long version of my "tube curious" video, and the comparison is toward the end. The solid state is a Pioneer SX-440 that I modified to have pre-out and main-in jacks. I compared its built-in power amp to the Beaver Valley and used the SX-440 preamp in both cases.
I have waited a long time for such a video!
Voices sound somehow much clearer, better defined and more filigreed on single ended amplifiers. Single ended also sounds less plastic, more clear and detailed.
But! On Push-Pull everything sounds more balanced, less shrill than Single Ended and above all more powerful, more rounded in all frequencies.
For classic music with a lot of treble, I would prefer the Single Ended.
For modern music with lot of bass, like rock, pop and electronic music, Push Pull is the better choice.
Personally, however, I always prefer push-pull, yes for sound reasons(balancedness), but on the other hand also for other reasons - the choice of operating class is not limited to Class A, so that the efficiency (current consumption/usable power) can be increased and the tube wear can be significantly reduced. For this reason, the advantages of push-pull are so overwhelming for me that I no longer connect single-ended amplifiers on my speakers.
I know what you mean about voices on SE amps. My first time listening to my first SE amp was a jaw-dropping experience. Then my jaw dropped again when I first listened to my best PP amp (not the one featured in this video). Actually my jaw dropped before listening, when testing showed that it could deliver full power down to 20 Hz. Getting full power bass with SE amps requires huge iron. So I use an SE amp on my desktop in the office and a PP amp at home (actually two: one in the bedroom and the best one in my home office/workshop/man cave).
What are the PP amps you use at home and which is the one you like best? New subscriber, great channel!
Just subscribed!
I like both SE and PP but I naturally just go back to SE most of the time. I have some vintage PP receivers from the late 50's early 60's and I need to make use of them and they sound excellent with the right speakers but I still love SE better. I mean what's not to love? The sound is clearer (to me) and one can save more money not having to buy so many tubes. I have never really found the bass lacking in SE either especially with the right speakers and normal volume levels.
edit, with vinyl the phono stage can make a very big impact too.
Hi there - very much enjoyed this video - have subscribed. Hard to tell over my phone or tablet which is best - I veer towards the SE but that may just be personal bias. I have a Willsenton R300 and a Prima Luna EVO400i integrated. I listen almost exclusively to the 300b SE - I prefer the sound - even though 7wpc compared to 70wpc ( ultralinear ) may seem insane ! I have Tekton 2-10 Perfect Set speakers with a REL 100w sub which probably really helps the 300b bass performance. More like this please.
Thanks for the sub! Sounds like a sick system!
what efficiency are you Speakers?... I have a pair of
Dali Rubicon 6 BE and they are only 88.5 db efficiency... so I don't think that single ended low wattage would push my speakers good enough??
@briancampbell7712 the Tektons are 96db so pretty easy to drive. I think a low power tube Amp would have difficulties driving your speakers.
@@anthonyarmstrong9174 96db is way more efficient than my speakers at 88.5%
Still, at lower volumes (and by that I just mean not very loud), even one watt can make beautiful music. But efficient speakers are nice! I just got a pair of Wharfedale W70D's, and the higher efficiency is noticeable. And lovely!
Aaaaaaaaand now you have me again at a/d/s L730's. I've never heard them but I'm "in the tank" for all things ads- I like the cut of your jib.
You'll want to stay tuned, then. Yesterday, I got a bunch of footage comparing the L730's to a pair of Tannoy Monitor Golds (as well as AR4X's). I was pleased to find that the Tannoys didn't blow the ADS's out of the water in every circumstance.
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi thank you... I look forward to seeing that.
Yeah, it's going to be a tough one to edit. Since the owner of the Tannoys was also a customer, I didn't want to impose or take away from his experience, so I just left the camera running. LOTS of footage, most of which needs to be edited out.
In my opinion - the best is push-pull.Firstly ,this amp is more efficient. Secondly - the amplifier can control moving of a cone of speaker forward and backward.Thirdly, there is not any current through a transformer when silence - as a result we have compact transformer with low leakage inductance without any air gaps.
Those are all valid scientific explanations but which one really sounds better? To me the SE had better sound imaging. The PP to me, while perhaps had better bass potential, sounded more echoy and stuck inside a box. The SE seemed to project out of that box.
Hi great video Sir. As a longtime tube amp builder and lp collector it looks to me that your speakers may be the weak link. I find that ultra hi efficiency speakers show off tube amps the best like vintage altec or jbl speakers with alnico magnets. Cheers
Yes, I could definitely get more from efficient speakers.
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi Get some Klipsch Heresy speakers. My friend has a pair and he plays all his tube amps through them and I have never been disappointed. They sound great with everything.
I recently got a pair of Wharfedale W70D's; not super efficient, but more efficient than anything I've had so far. They really do let the tubes sing!
Nice to hear metallica and dinosaur through tubes albeit via youtube. I am toying with the idea of trying tubes , the SE amp surprised me in a good way. i think i preferred it of the two, just wondered if it lacked bass heft. would be interested in knowing whether you think a valve pre and solid state power would be a way of getting more "heft" whilst keeping the airiness? I guess there's always a compromise somewhere. thanks again for the comparison.
I haven't tried a tube pre with solid state power. Given the difference I've heard when spicing from tube power to solid state power with the same solid state pre, I'm skeptical that the clarity of the tube pre would survive passage through a solid state power amp. But I don't know.
I like muscle and dynamics on my amp. Those whimpy 8 watts per channel doesn’t cut it for me!!
I prefer push and pull amps!
I've got more power in the queue. Someone gave me a pair of Dynaco Mark III's. Push-pull KT88's, 60 watts.
It's always difficult to capture the true sound of a system through RUclips, but of the two amps I thought that the SE sounded more open on the high frequency end and the drum hit on the Rickie Lee album had more impact.
I've been thinking that I need to rerun the test because I've changed the bias current on the BV-6V6.
RUclips use to be a place where you cam learn something and share ideas, great job! Any recommendations for bookshelve size speakers that work with 2 watt set amps?
Thanks! There are so many speakers, and so few that I've heard! The short answer is that any speakers of moderate (e.g., 87 dB) to high sensitivity will probably sound good. You just won't be able to play at high volume unless you use high-efficiency speakers. A client/friend who bought one of my amps uses Tannoy Monitor Gold bookshelf speakers, and the combination is pretty amazing, but those are amazing speakers!
the mids on the push pull amp are vailed and constrained. Between these 2 gimme the single ended amp. Oh, and tha's one hell of a sexy turntable!
Yeah, I've worked hard at prettying that TT up. It was a basket case (peeling vinyl veneer, cracked cover) when I got it. I do have a video on the restoration of that TT.
great demonstration Single-Ended was more balanced better bass .Push-Pull is mid range prominent yeh it plays louder but not to my liking .Suggest put album cover or cd cover in video to see what your playing at the time.
That's a good suggestion. I would have placed the sleeve on the dust cover if I hadn't decided I liked the shot better without the reflection from the dust cover. Then I didn't have a convenient place to put the sleeve. 🤔
subscribed!
Thanks!
A race car oe an off road 4X4 ..............What is best ?
This is one of the best and informative HiFi tube amp video I've seen. Nothing so perfect but I really like the way how it was explained in his own "real self opinion" right down to the points. I hardly subscribe from anyone because most of them just love to talk with zero skills. From right here, I can hear a huge difference between both amps and looking at the big picture, I cannot say one is better than the other for it really depends on the sound application I'm after after for. The 6V6 sounds warmer while the EL84 is has more magic midrange. Even though the EL84 has the brilliancy, the 6V6 sounds more versatile to me. I own a 300b SE and PP. Alot of people claim that SE is better. It can be true I wont really say that would be the case in the real world. ..with the SE even so, I am limited in its music application, speaker selections and I found myself using the PP more because realistically I need a bit more power than 8 watts to respectfully drive even a high sensitivity speakers to its maximum potential. So bottom line to me is they both sound excellent and that's exactly what I hear from these amps. This is great and I just subscribed now. I'll follow this up with my buddies a the hi-end hi fidelity form in SHF. By the way, The Bread is a super talented band. I love all of them but Jimmy Griffin will always be my boy.
Thanks. R.
Wow! Great comment! Thanks!
In comparison, to me the single ended amp sounded more open and dynamic (especially with the classical pieces). The push/pull amp sounded a little like I put my fingers into my ears, though they both sounded great. My listening system consist of a Heathkit AA30 EL84 powered "push/pull" amp and Klipsch Hereseys. Thanks for the video.
i have an amp like the 8608 which was made by Magnavox
Is it working?
where is the punch from 6v6? the 6bq6 sounds lot more full.
I may need to rerun the test since I "fixed" the push-pull amp.
i prefer the single-ended sound by far
I still call them dinosaur too. Have a good day
Thanks! 😁
New subscriber here my friend.
Thanks!
After the very first song it was obvious (for me) that PP sound in this particular case way better than the SE. May be if we took 300B or some of GMxx a SE sounded better, but this vid SE is not them.
PS And then you made the SE louder to save the situation )))))
Single-ended for me
PP má presný dynamický zvuk pevné basy a čisté výšky. SE má oveľa čistejšie stredné pásmo. Veľká pomoc a zlepšenie by bolo pre SE keby spodné pásmo bolo odfiltrované a použil by sa klasický subwoofer D class. Tlačiť basovú zložku triedou A je plytvanie energiou, ktorá má plný potenciál na strednom a vysokom pásme.
Something like that is on my list to try someday.
With Metallica single ended sounds bedst, will that mean that i should get a single ended if i listen to prog and metal ??
SE is more open, PP fuller sounding.. Big surprise when you pulled out the YLOAM and Gentle Giant albums..👌🏼
Tommy was icing on the cake!
I've had a lot of GG in my videos, but I've been neglecting my 80's indie rock. (Here's how poorly produced hardcore sounds! Hm. Maybe that's an idea for a video!) I saw Dinosaur in Boston when they were first touring YLAOM. I hadn't heard of them yet, but a friend said I should go see them with him. Hoe-Lee Shee-hit! I think I bought the album the next day. Didn't expect it could really do justice to the live show, but I was pleasantly surprised! I think I saw them two more times in Boston.
next time try to use opamp to drive your 6bq5, you will get supprised. I have used rc4580 as phase splitter for my homebuild 6bq5, it almost sound like headphone to me(sounds very time accurate to me). totally different animal.
Really? Interesting idea. Not sure I have the guys to try it. Maybe someday. I've thought of using op-amps as buffer stages since input and output impedances are often difficult issues with tube stages.
yes, and you will easily make your audio path free of capacitor. The quality of DC bypass capacitor between stages is a big deal for final result (time accuracy, phase shift, etc). good luck @@Lancaster_Hi-Fi
PP for my taste, more controlled, more honest
Stop whining. You make good videos providing useful information!
I know the "whining" is tiresome and cringe and all that, but I've gotten more subs on this video than any other, including one with 5X the views. That said, I can't bring myself to throw a big pity party for every video.
Its your persoanl choice.
Do it because you like it because RUclips wants you 4x a week or else your invisible
Listening tests are fine if you're there otherwise on RUclips it seems a waste. Personally I would much prefer to hear your judgements and thoughts on what the differences are otherwise it's a waste of time for everyone. I'm interested in finding way to transfer all that knowledge inside your brain to me and no doubt you wanna share otherwise it's good
Hang in there. Nobody watches mine either lol. I’m leaving a lot in here and might buy an amp.
Ha! Yeah, I'm just psyched to have reached 1K subscribers. It seemed out of the blue that one of my vids got 13K views or so. Hey! I solved the algorithm! Next vid, less than 1K views. Sigh. Anyway, hit me up via email if you want to talk about an amp.
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi I'll absolutely be contacting you soon. I'm not buying right at this moment, but probably this summer.
@@MidFiMan Cool.
Can't tell the difference
I listen with MDR-7506'S so neutral.I have heard MUCH better sound on You Tube [You and your friend ] Your speakers are shouty, no bass and the midrange shouts! No offence meant.
No offense taken. The weak link in the sound is the recording equipment, which is just my Samsung phone. Its mics are decent for a phone, but still . . . . And the speakers may not be to your taste. Some prefer ADS over all else. I actually prefer my other ADS speakers, which are two-way rather than 3. I've also noticed the shoutiness of the ones on the video.
You need 2 post more end you wil get bigger
That's generally true, buts is not that simple. My views dropped off a cliff at a time when I was posting more frequently. The videos didn't do well, and impressions dropped across the board, even on older videos that had been doing well up to that point.
What a lot of nonsense. It's like this. A SE driving the right sensitivity speaker, and as well the amp and speaker are of high quality. The SE's will beat every PP. Like I own a Audio Note OTO SE amp driving TL 1 meter high speaker filled with the top line units from AN, I can't even turn the volume to 12 O Clock, unless I want the Police come and visit me.
Yours is a common opinion these days but not universal. I think variation within types makes blanket statements inaccurate.
I used to think like you, but then I heard a Pilot 402 and a Fisher 440A. There is something VERY enjoyable about PP el84 amps that SE don't have.