I don’t fly in the US, I am from Europe, but I’m very happy for these changes. It looks like the FAA is not only catching up but also raising the bar when it comes to light sport aviation, in one single sweep. This is great for european pilots too, because local regulators will have a reference framework to allow for even more flexibility and manufacturers of ULLs will export more overseas. Good news all around. 🎉
I think the FAA rule is intended to bridge the gap between europe, Brazil and US. When this rules comes into law, European rules will be archaic. Lol! No one thought that the FAA would go this far in changing the game. I am looking forward to being able to purchase one of the newer aircraft built under mosaic. Working on money for plane now! Lol
This is progress, but it would be much simpler just to remove the Class 3 medical requirement. Note- I have a Class 2 medical, PPl and instrument rating, but it seems crazy that my buddy, who is a very athletic 65 year-old fireman/paramedic and former PPL, cannot fly because he had a heart attack 12 years ago.
I’m kind of hoping that this is a step in that direction, because the lightening up on the rules is a byproduct of people without medicals proving that they can still be safe in the cockpit. I also hope your friend can fly in the near future. ❤
Seems to me the simpler way to revolutionize general aviation is to remove the Class 3 medical requirement. I can’t pass the med but I know I can fly a Cessna or a Cirrus, given the proper training and checkouts.
Great changes (on paper). For most of us mere "financial mortals" in the "practical world" of Light Sport GA things quickly hit real barriers. With few exceptions, the only thing available in the real world to rent out there with MOSAIC are legacy aircraft (172's/PA's, etc.) and Cirrus (not an LSA). For instance, If I wanted to rent a brand-new MOSAIC aircraft or an existing privately owned MOSAIC aircraft, I would have to know an owner of one. That's years away, if ever. I own an LSA. Even if I was going to let you fly (potentially break) my airplane, my insurance will not cover you until you have 25 hours in type as well as CFI sign-off. So that's not going to happen, ever. I guess as a Sport Pilot I could go rent a 150/152/172 etc., but they are smelly old paint peeling steam gauge aircraft. No thanks. Want to fly a vintage airplane that now falls under light sport? Good luck finding an owner willing to let you do that, although the change in the rules provides you a much broader market to purchase an affordable used airplane, like the Grumman Yankees. The new LSA's coming out are all going to be in the $250,000 - $400,000 range. I can't imagine any rental/instruction fleets of new MOSAIC planes coming anytime soon. I'm very fortunate to own a 13-year-old LSA that cost me $80,000 and is worth $120,00 now. Even if I sold it, I'd still be way short of owning one of these gorgeous new sleek fast LSA's. Not in my lifetime. Like a lot of folks in GA, I will "time out" before I see one of these available to purchase. MOSAIC is a wonderful step forward, something best appreciated for the generation of aviators behind me, or maybe behind them. Fun to watch for sure, if only from the sidelines so to speak. 😜
Why not just remove the 3rd class medical for PPL and just have one license? Limit the number of passengers to a number of PIC hours like an endorsement. Once you pass the checkride for PPL you can have 1, at X number of hours, you can have 4 or something like that. I'm glad they are making some changes but seems overly complicated for such a simple problem.
@@Fynnley525 Go for the Sport Pilot certificate! Only a driver's license is required. MOSAIC will greatly increase the number of aircraft that can be flown by a Sport Pilot.
@@miaboleis3828 No way. The metric system is illogical and only helps people who can't do simple math. Standard units are much more logical in application.
I’ve been trying to keep straight in my head what changes in the MOSAIC NPRM are specifically the expansion of “Sport Pilot” privileges versus what are the changes for what can be sold as “Light Sport Aircraft” in the US and that approval process. For people who deal with these regulations constantly I’m sure it obvious but it would be helpful for the rest of us if we could figure out clear ways to identify what’s what and avoid confusion from the different uses of the word “sport”.
Mosaic is going to allow 1. Weight from 1320 lbs to 3000lbs 2. Speed from 120knots to 250 knots 3. Fixed prop to constant speed prop 4. Fixed gear to retractable gear. 5. Two seat to four seats( one passenger) 6. Night flying 7. Piston engine only to any including turbines 8. Helicopters
@@mauriceevans6546 so this is the thing I was talking about. Some of what you laid out is changes to what may be sold a a “LSA” while some is a change to the Sport Pilot privileges. SPs may fly aircraft with 4 seats but only one passenger while Light Sport Aircraft may carry more than one passenger (though there also appears to be a 4 seat limit on LSAs in contrast to the overall approach of allowing the Vs1 limit to control what is allowed in the aircraft.) A common point of confusion is that Commercial ant ATP holders will be allowed to use LSAs for some non-passenger commercial uses, but SPs still may not fly for compensation. It’s really easy to get this stuff mixed up.
@tomdchi12 commercial and ATP have always been able to use whatever plane they want. The mosaic rule is the most sweeping rule change for general aviation in 20yrs and it will do way more hood than harm in my opinion. Those that advocated for this got.way kore then they wanted
I see no mention of maintenance requirements. Eg. Legacy aircraft that meet the revised weight limits - can Annual Inspections be performed and signed off by A&P (w/out IA) or owner operator who’s completed the LSA maintenance class?
No for the first half of your question. An LSA Repairman - Inspector (the 16 hour course) only on his E-LSA or an LSA Repairman-Maintenance (120 hour course) can only do that on E-LSA and S-LSA airplanes. See the proposed 65.109 (on page 88 of 90) in the NPRM here: www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2023-07-24/pdf/2023-14425.pdf
I will be interesting to see were accident rates go with the new rules. Are they going to increase training requirements for operation if these higher performance aircraft?
Data shows accidents are more likely to happen in the sub Vh stages of flight, where maneuvering, approaches, departures, takeoffs, and landings occur. Keeping the Vs1 speed low allows a plane to be easier to maneuver and fly during those stages of flight.
The same training a private pilot has to have before they can fly faster more advanced aircraft. Sign off from an instructor for complex high speed aircraft.
They said the same thing about light sport in 2004 and it just has not materialized. 20 years later and the only people upset are the PPL who think their medical makes them safer. In a few years, sport pilots will be allowed to get their IFR rating, when ASTM committee completes the rules for IFR in mosaic aircraft.
Not necessarily true. The ruling states that the clean stall speed (vs1) must be 54kts calibrated. Even the lightest short body Mooney’s have a VS1 of 58kts. Landing stall speed (vs0), flaps down & gear down in my Mooney is 49kts. So since the wording in the revision says VS1 and not VS0, none of the Mooney’s qualify.
It also must be mentioned that these future aircraft, like current ASTM Lsa's wont be ICAO compliant aircraft. And will thus also be limited in comparison to part 23 aircraft.
These new aircraft will directly compete with legacy manufacturers. Mosaic will see the rise of aircraft that will.make buying a cessna 172 very difficult. There are already manufacturers building aircraft that will offer serious competition to cessna, piper and other part 23 aircraft manufacturers
So sad to see that there was not a carve out for CAR3 Vintage aircraft. We have been left behind by the FAA and upset that EAA Vintage didn't fight for us too. Shame
You'd have to see what each model's Vs1 (clean) stall is. If above 54 KCAS, it won't be eligible. A quick search shows the AA-1 has a Vso of 60 K, so it won't qualify.
Fly airplanes for work and get paid good money to do it. Spend your money on the finer things in life like the pistachios that have already been shelled.
Any flying is high risk. Don’t Kidd yourself thinking your old 172 is safer. You could be doing everything right. And get struck by another aircraft or helicopter. Train hard. Fly right. All you can do. Or stay on the ground
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I don’t fly in the US, I am from Europe, but I’m very happy for these changes. It looks like the FAA is not only catching up but also raising the bar when it comes to light sport aviation, in one single sweep. This is great for european pilots too, because local regulators will have a reference framework to allow for even more flexibility and manufacturers of ULLs will export more overseas. Good news all around. 🎉
I think the FAA rule is intended to bridge the gap between europe, Brazil and US. When this rules comes into law, European rules will be archaic. Lol! No one thought that the FAA would go this far in changing the game. I am looking forward to being able to purchase one of the newer aircraft built under mosaic. Working on money for plane now! Lol
This is progress, but it would be much simpler just to remove the Class 3 medical requirement.
Note- I have a Class 2 medical, PPl and instrument rating, but it seems crazy that my buddy, who
is a very athletic 65 year-old fireman/paramedic and former PPL, cannot fly because he had a heart
attack 12 years ago.
I’m kind of hoping that this is a step in that direction, because the lightening up on the rules is a byproduct of people without medicals proving that they can still be safe in the cockpit. I also hope your friend can fly in the near future. ❤
Seems to me the simpler way to revolutionize general aviation is to remove the Class 3 medical requirement. I can’t pass the med but I know I can fly a Cessna or a Cirrus, given the proper training and checkouts.
Great changes (on paper). For most of us mere "financial mortals" in the "practical world" of Light Sport GA things quickly hit real barriers. With few exceptions, the only thing available in the real world to rent out there with MOSAIC are legacy aircraft (172's/PA's, etc.) and Cirrus (not an LSA). For instance, If I wanted to rent a brand-new MOSAIC aircraft or an existing privately owned MOSAIC aircraft, I would have to know an owner of one. That's years away, if ever. I own an LSA. Even if I was going to let you fly (potentially break) my airplane, my insurance will not cover you until you have 25 hours in type as well as CFI sign-off. So that's not going to happen, ever. I guess as a Sport Pilot I could go rent a 150/152/172 etc., but they are smelly old paint peeling steam gauge aircraft. No thanks. Want to fly a vintage airplane that now falls under light sport? Good luck finding an owner willing to let you do that, although the change in the rules provides you a much broader market to purchase an affordable used airplane, like the Grumman Yankees. The new LSA's coming out are all going to be in the $250,000 - $400,000 range. I can't imagine any rental/instruction fleets of new MOSAIC planes coming anytime soon. I'm very fortunate to own a 13-year-old LSA that cost me $80,000 and is worth $120,00 now. Even if I sold it, I'd still be way short of owning one of these gorgeous new sleek fast LSA's. Not in my lifetime. Like a lot of folks in GA, I will "time out" before I see one of these available to purchase. MOSAIC is a wonderful step forward, something best appreciated for the generation of aviators behind me, or maybe behind them. Fun to watch for sure, if only from the sidelines so to speak. 😜
Spot-on! Or as some say “word”.
Why not just remove the 3rd class medical for PPL and just have one license? Limit the number of passengers to a number of PIC hours like an endorsement. Once you pass the checkride for PPL you can have 1, at X number of hours, you can have 4 or something like that. I'm glad they are making some changes but seems overly complicated for such a simple problem.
for real, the medical cert is the only think keeping me from trying for a PPL
@@Fynnley525 Go for the Sport Pilot certificate! Only a driver's license is required. MOSAIC will greatly increase the number of aircraft that can be flown by a Sport Pilot.
Thank you, AOPA, for pushing the Feds for all of this!! I'm shopping for my constant speed prop already.
Wondering why the AOPA is now using metric system when describing aircraft? America is still using the Imperial system not using the metric system.
It is about time "America" (I suppose you mean the US) joins the rest of the world.
@@miaboleis3828
No way. The metric system is illogical and only helps people who can't do simple math. Standard units are much more logical in application.
The European airplane probably had its weight on kilograms on the information sign.
The original definition for LSA was / is 600 kg. which is 1,320 pounds.
I’ve been trying to keep straight in my head what changes in the MOSAIC NPRM are specifically the expansion of “Sport Pilot” privileges versus what are the changes for what can be sold as “Light Sport Aircraft” in the US and that approval process. For people who deal with these regulations constantly I’m sure it obvious but it would be helpful for the rest of us if we could figure out clear ways to identify what’s what and avoid confusion from the different uses of the word “sport”.
Mosaic is going to allow
1. Weight from 1320 lbs to 3000lbs
2. Speed from 120knots to 250 knots
3. Fixed prop to constant speed prop
4. Fixed gear to retractable gear.
5. Two seat to four seats( one passenger)
6. Night flying
7. Piston engine only to any including turbines
8. Helicopters
@@mauriceevans6546 so this is the thing I was talking about. Some of what you laid out is changes to what may be sold a a “LSA” while some is a change to the Sport Pilot privileges. SPs may fly aircraft with 4 seats but only one passenger while Light Sport Aircraft may carry more than one passenger (though there also appears to be a 4 seat limit on LSAs in contrast to the overall approach of allowing the Vs1 limit to control what is allowed in the aircraft.) A common point of confusion is that Commercial ant ATP holders will be allowed to use LSAs for some non-passenger commercial uses, but SPs still may not fly for compensation. It’s really easy to get this stuff mixed up.
@tomdchi12 light sport will be able to use their aircraft for air work. Photography, surveillance and other things that fall under that category
@tomdchi12 commercial and ATP have always been able to use whatever plane they want. The mosaic rule is the most sweeping rule change for general aviation in 20yrs and it will do way more hood than harm in my opinion. Those that advocated for this got.way kore then they wanted
@@mauriceevans6546there is no weight restriction. Number 1 should be VS1 of 54 knots CAS.
I see no mention of maintenance requirements. Eg. Legacy aircraft that meet the revised weight limits - can Annual Inspections be performed and signed off by A&P (w/out IA) or owner operator who’s completed the LSA maintenance class?
No for the first half of your question. An LSA Repairman - Inspector (the 16 hour course) only on his E-LSA or an LSA Repairman-Maintenance (120 hour course) can only do that on E-LSA and S-LSA airplanes. See the proposed 65.109 (on page 88 of 90) in the NPRM here: www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2023-07-24/pdf/2023-14425.pdf
I will be interesting to see were accident rates go with the new rules. Are they going to increase training requirements for operation if these higher performance aircraft?
Data shows accidents are more likely to happen in the sub Vh stages of flight, where maneuvering, approaches, departures, takeoffs, and landings occur. Keeping the Vs1 speed low allows a plane to be easier to maneuver and fly during those stages of flight.
The same training a private pilot has to have before they can fly faster more advanced aircraft. Sign off from an instructor for complex high speed aircraft.
They said the same thing about light sport in 2004 and it just has not materialized. 20 years later and the only people upset are the PPL who think their medical makes them safer. In a few years, sport pilots will be allowed to get their IFR rating, when ASTM committee completes the rules for IFR in mosaic aircraft.
My PA-28 Cherokee 140 clean stall speed is 55.6 kts that sucks at 54 kts unless they move it up to 61kts as I have heard might happen!!! We'll see
Most Mooney M20s stall under 56 KCAS and would also be considered an LSA
Not necessarily true. The ruling states that the clean stall speed (vs1) must be 54kts calibrated. Even the lightest short body Mooney’s have a VS1 of 58kts. Landing stall speed (vs0), flaps down & gear down in my Mooney is 49kts. So since the wording in the revision says VS1 and not VS0, none of the Mooney’s qualify.
It also must be mentioned that these future aircraft, like current ASTM Lsa's wont be ICAO compliant aircraft. And will thus also be limited in comparison to part 23 aircraft.
These new aircraft will directly compete with legacy manufacturers. Mosaic will see the rise of aircraft that will.make buying a cessna 172 very difficult. There are already manufacturers building aircraft that will offer serious competition to cessna, piper and other part 23 aircraft manufacturers
So sad to see that there was not a carve out for CAR3 Vintage aircraft. We have been left behind by the FAA and upset that EAA Vintage didn't fight for us too. Shame
Would a current certified Amateur-Built Experimental that didn’t make the 1320 weight rule be allowed to re-certify as an E-LSA?
Yes, as long as the Vs1 (clean) stall is not above 54 KCAS
Would GA aircraft like Grumman Yankees fall into the MOSAIC category?? Just curious. Thanks for any answers.
Yes it will
@@roberthenson6114
Thank you, sir!! I thought so.
I appreciate your quick response.
You'd have to see what each model's Vs1 (clean) stall is. If above 54 KCAS, it won't be eligible. A quick search shows the AA-1 has a Vso of 60 K, so it won't qualify.
@@roberthenson6114 Not correct. The Vs1 needs to be 54 KCAS or less. See my other reply.
That didn't really explain anything.
600 KG airplane, WTF
The closest I will ever come to being a pilot is by jumping off a tall building and flapping my arms. That is an expensive rich mans' hobby.
Fly airplanes for work and get paid good money to do it. Spend your money on the finer things in life like the pistachios that have already been shelled.
More Deaths.
Unlikely.
You've been a lifelong Liberal? The sky is falling!!
Any flying is high risk. Don’t Kidd yourself thinking your old 172 is safer. You could be doing everything right. And get struck by another aircraft or helicopter. Train hard. Fly right. All you can do. Or stay on the ground
Robindunn27 👁️👁️📝😎