I remember once a dude asked me to nitrate toilet paper and replace my schools paper with it. I refused just because I don't feel like using a nitration mix yet
I used to print fake money on nitrated paper. The color was a bit off, couldn't pass as real, but I wasn't trying. I would make it look like I was leaving a big tip , then when someone would say something about it, I would make a stupid joke about my money going up in smoke, and either touch it with my smoke or use the chlorate I had under my finger nail to ignite it. For some reason I thought that was Soo cool back in college, except the day I set my shirt on fire at the bar cuz I had a wad of those 'flash bills' in my shirt pocket . Now that I'm older I realize I was just being obnoxious. At least I left a real tip, I wasn't a total AH.
@@karolus28 In the early times NC (moderately nitrated and soluble into ethanol/aceton...IIRC celluloïd) was used for photo/picture negatives and pellicules into movie projections onto screens in film theaters (this was responsible of many fires due to the flamability of NC); but it was also used in ping-pong balls and into snooker-billiard balls (this saved many elefants and their ivory defenses.)😉 Imagine playing ping-pong or snooker with NC balls (explosive and propellants) that is something else to imagine ;o) PHZ (PHILOU Zrealone from the Science Madness forum)
@@petevenuti7355 was the chlorate reacting with residual sulfuric acid in the paper? I'm not sure I'd want to have a strong oxidizer under my fingernails around fire.
read it in old papers they say in small experiments 15 min should enough but for industrie use they all say 12hours to 24. This with 12 hours will only be washed after another 12hours because the remaining acid contines the nitration.
That looks like it was mostly nitrated but those last 5-10% are difficult to get in an ice bath. Once it's equilibrated in the ice bath (60-120minutes) it's safe to let it slowly come up to room temperature and sit overnight (total of 16-24 hours) before washing and drying. Just, as you described here, be sure to avoid leaving any nitric acid for sake of stability. I have a small sample that's the same color as 3-5 years ago when I made it.
@@Ku4z-pyrotech18_6 zombie here. I can think of a few possibilities but the first two would be: Not thoroughly washed or Not completely dry. It sounds like a good idea for an experiment. Use the same protocol for a control, try different washing protocols and different cellulose sources. The cellulose sources should be selected to exclude bleaching residues as a source of Halogen contamination as the source of the odor. If your only meter is the Mk.1 neutrally-integrated biological chemical sensor located in the middle of your skull, please be careful. Not only does it fatigue easily and provide false-negatives but overstimulation (as low as 1ppm) can cause transient faults while operation at concentrations that exceed the design-limit (typically 5-10ppm) can cause permanent damage and damage (possibly destruction) of the supporting equipment for sample collection. This supporting equipment is necessary for the continued function of the integrated biological device, it's value is much higher than that of any amount of experience with energetic materials! Be responsible, stay safe with tiny amounts, don't ever transport any, stay legal.
nice! I've actually tested flash cotton in ammo. in its cotton form it seems to prefer bigger calibers like 45 long colt, in 9mm the power was rather unimpressive.
A pasta maker on the spaghettini setting and nitrocellulose with a little acetone to make a putty can make decent powder. Be careful using the fluffy cotton, it can cause really high pressures. There's a big thread on homemade powders on the sciencemadness forum that could help if you haven't found it already.
@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 You can gelatinize it with ethylacetat and knead it than like blackpowder press it throught an thief. But round guncutton only in shotguns and revolvers because it burns very aggresive.Early times the put the guncutton with saltpeter in an tumbler and made them moist with an solvent but i think it was the C.E powder. Best methode was an dry mix of Guncutton and Saltpeter shaken under continous moisten with water it forms after time the powder grains.
Nice video..I was working with this substance during 1991-1996 making it over 300 times.. what I seen the burning test in your video im sure this is contained less than 60% N.C. Due to the poor Nitration process..the pure GunCotton Explosively burns before flame touching it..
I'd love to see a comparison of nitrocellulose burning compared to regular cotton that's been soaked in liquid O2. Or even better, nitrocellulose soaked in oxygen! I think it would make a great sequel to this video.
To get those last OH groups replaced use a second nitration mix with 98% sulfuric and fuming acid. This has a much lower exotherm and is much less likely to run away than the first nitration. Low water content is important as like most reactions, it is reversable.
Much faster than my suggestion, so long as you have ready access to it. For us poors, we've gotta wait. Kidding aside, if I was wanting to make a useful object out of it and wanted to get it done in a day WITHOUT ever making more than a few grams at a time, that's definitely the procedure I'd use.
You need to raise the temperature for many nitration reactions to "drive the reaction home", of course this can only be done after the risk of runaway nitration is gone, aka when the heat production slows as nitration rate plateaus
@@THYZOID Interesting thing i ve found an book about gunpowder from 1848 in the last chapter they discribe guncotton. Nitric acid with an destiny of 1,33 (55%)and 3 parts concentratet surlfuric acid works the same as smoking nitric acid.
Nice! You can also make micro crystalline NC if you use micro crystalline cellulose, by the way I saw on discord you were extracting nicotine from something, do you plan on posting a video on that extraction? It would be interesting! Anyways cool vid Thanks!
Yeah I filmed new videos in my private lab. It´s true that the videos filmed privately are much higher quality because there are frankly less distractions and more possibilities.
nice you mention NC! ive read paper about NC using HNO3 as main oxidant one paper said by addition NaNo2 and others H202, usually finished by base neutralizing and centrifuge iam not bright at cellulose chemistry but did it supposedly HNO3 will produces nitro? or base will neutralize those nitro? because it is sounded very repeatable in backyard lab if doesnt incorporated centrifuge
@@karolus28 "Cannot be used" ... really? Technically conventionnal aqueous 25-33% HCl is useless because too dilluted by water... but theorically gaseous dry HCl (100% HCl) and concentrated AgNO3 solution or solid should produce significantly/sufficiently highly concentrated HNO3 and solid AgCl... to allow formation of 100% HNO3. ...but also side reactions producing Ag, Cl2, aqua regia, AgNO3, NxOy, Cl-N=O Not really cheap nor economical... but possible for desperate cases/ causes. PHZ (PHILOU Zrealone from the Science Madness forum)
I guess I should be happy to be alive. 🤔 I experimted with that when I was 13 or 14 years of age. Around 40 years ago. We then lived in an apartment block, and my father received some warnings from the owners. - Back then you could buy all sorts of chemicals legally.
Hoping you can shed some light on why this keep happening to me. Using 98% H2SO4 and 68% HNO3 under 5C at all times, 100% natural cotton balls slow mix of the acids YET , the product comes out dissolved every time. Again, this is done at very low temperature and slow mixing with no NO2 or 3 as a byproduct. Temperatures were stable at all times. Removal is done via cold NaHCO3 bath. Why does my product get dissolved like this? I would expect to see this if the temperature were at dangerous levels but it is not. Any ideas?
Why is this guy pretending to use concentrated sulphuric acid when he's not? Concentrated sulphuric acid at 98% is called oil of vitriol for a reason, and it has a reddish colour, rather than being clear. Also, the solubility of KNO3 in water and/or H2SO4 at the temperatures required for nitration (
pure sulfuric acid is clear. if yours is reddish it is contaminated. the KNO3 reacts and potassium sulfate is more soluble in sulfuric acid than you might think. next time get your chemistry right before criticising.
@@THYZOID I know the chemistry perfectly. And having tried your proportions and durations, the cellulose burned little differentlty to untreated cotton wool. You don't help yourself by being so unclear in you methods. you mention distilled water, yet no quantity is stipulated. Also, you fail to mention that the nitration process can be compromided by excessive temperature - kind of important given the exothermic nature of the reaction!!
@@THYZOID Water will dilute the acid, which invalidates the stipulation of a certain strength 9f acid in the first place. 98% H2SO4 combined with an equal quantity of water becomes significantly weaker!!
I remember once a dude asked me to nitrate toilet paper and replace my schools paper with it. I refused just because I don't feel like using a nitration mix yet
Imagine writing tests on nitrated paper :D
I used to print fake money on nitrated paper. The color was a bit off, couldn't pass as real, but I wasn't trying. I would make it look like I was leaving a big tip , then when someone would say something about it, I would make a stupid joke about my money going up in smoke, and either touch it with my smoke or use the chlorate I had under my finger nail to ignite it.
For some reason I thought that was Soo cool back in college, except the day I set my shirt on fire at the bar cuz I had a wad of those 'flash bills' in my shirt pocket .
Now that I'm older I realize I was just being obnoxious.
At least I left a real tip, I wasn't a total AH.
@@karolus28
In the early times NC (moderately nitrated and soluble into ethanol/aceton...IIRC celluloïd) was used for photo/picture negatives and pellicules into movie projections onto screens in film theaters (this was responsible of many fires due to the flamability of NC); but it was also used in ping-pong balls and into snooker-billiard balls (this saved many elefants and their ivory defenses.)😉
Imagine playing ping-pong or snooker with NC balls (explosive and propellants) that is something else to imagine ;o)
PHZ
(PHILOU Zrealone from the Science Madness forum)
@@philouzlouis2042 I actually bought some ping pong balls 4 years ago (not from china, a reliable store) and they seem to be mae out of NC
@@petevenuti7355 was the chlorate reacting with residual sulfuric acid in the paper? I'm not sure I'd want to have a strong oxidizer under my fingernails around fire.
I recommend leaving it in the nitration mix for 12-24hrs
Totally agree. 15 minutes gets you nowhere.
read it in old papers they say in small experiments 15 min should enough but for industrie use they all say 12hours to 24. This with 12 hours will only be washed after another 12hours because the remaining acid contines the nitration.
That looks like it was mostly nitrated but those last 5-10% are difficult to get in an ice bath. Once it's equilibrated in the ice bath (60-120minutes) it's safe to let it slowly come up to room temperature and sit overnight (total of 16-24 hours) before washing and drying. Just, as you described here, be sure to avoid leaving any nitric acid for sake of stability.
I have a small sample that's the same color as 3-5 years ago when I made it.
When i light my nitrocellulose, There's some NO2 smell and idk why.
@@Ku4z-pyrotech18_6 zombie here. I can think of a few possibilities but the first two would be:
Not thoroughly washed or Not completely dry.
It sounds like a good idea for an experiment.
Use the same protocol for a control, try different washing protocols and different cellulose sources. The cellulose sources should be selected to exclude bleaching residues as a source of Halogen contamination as the source of the odor.
If your only meter is the Mk.1 neutrally-integrated biological chemical sensor located in the middle of your skull, please be careful. Not only does it fatigue easily and provide false-negatives but overstimulation (as low as 1ppm) can cause transient faults while operation at concentrations that exceed the design-limit (typically 5-10ppm) can cause permanent damage and damage (possibly destruction) of the supporting equipment for sample collection. This supporting equipment is necessary for the continued function of the integrated biological device, it's value is much higher than that of any amount of experience with energetic materials!
Be responsible, stay safe with tiny amounts, don't ever transport any, stay legal.
nice! I've actually tested flash cotton in ammo. in its cotton form it seems to prefer bigger calibers like 45 long colt, in 9mm the power was rather unimpressive.
A pasta maker on the spaghettini setting and nitrocellulose with a little acetone to make a putty can make decent powder. Be careful using the fluffy cotton, it can cause really high pressures. There's a big thread on homemade powders on the sciencemadness forum that could help if you haven't found it already.
@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 You can gelatinize it with ethylacetat and knead it than like blackpowder press it throught an thief. But round guncutton only in shotguns and revolvers because it burns very aggresive.Early times the put the guncutton with saltpeter in an tumbler and made them moist with an solvent but i think it was the C.E powder. Best methode was an dry mix of Guncutton and Saltpeter shaken under continous moisten with water it forms after time the powder grains.
Nice video..I was working with this substance during 1991-1996 making it over 300 times.. what I seen the burning test in your video im sure this is contained less than 60% N.C.
Due to the poor Nitration process..the pure GunCotton Explosively burns before flame touching it..
I'd love to see a comparison of nitrocellulose burning compared to regular cotton that's been soaked in liquid O2. Or even better, nitrocellulose soaked in oxygen! I think it would make a great sequel to this video.
To get those last OH groups replaced use a second nitration mix with 98% sulfuric and fuming acid. This has a much lower exotherm and is much less likely to run away than the first nitration. Low water content is important as like most reactions, it is reversable.
Much faster than my suggestion, so long as you have ready access to it.
For us poors, we've gotta wait.
Kidding aside, if I was wanting to make a useful object out of it and wanted to get it done in a day WITHOUT ever making more than a few grams at a time, that's definitely the procedure I'd use.
@@matthewellisor5835 going from soluble to insoluble cellulose really requires the concentrated acids and heating as well for maximum nitration.
Irma, I think we could use a person like you. It would be working in the secluded desert with air conditioning. 😉
@@lrmackmcbride7498 👍🏼
You need to raise the temperature for many nitration reactions to "drive the reaction home", of course this can only be done after the risk of runaway nitration is gone, aka when the heat production slows as nitration rate plateaus
This process works better with ammonium nitrate since it all liquefies when mixed together.
Why not use a mixture of sulfuric and nitric acid?
They didn’t have fuming HNO3
@@THYZOID You can use azeotropic nitric acid. Using of nitrates = loss of the sulfuruc acid which otherway could be recycled
@@THYZOID Interesting thing i ve found an book about gunpowder from 1848 in the last chapter they discribe guncotton. Nitric acid with an destiny of 1,33 (55%)and 3 parts concentratet surlfuric acid works the same as smoking nitric acid.
Nice! You can also make micro crystalline NC if you use micro crystalline cellulose, by the way I saw on discord you were extracting nicotine from something, do you plan on posting a video on that extraction? It would be interesting! Anyways cool vid
Thanks!
Of course I´ll post the nicotine video. Currently the only thing left to do is to boil off the last 30ml of MTBE and it´s done.
Yeah I filmed new videos in my private lab. It´s true that the videos filmed privately are much higher quality because there are frankly less distractions and more possibilities.
@@experimental_chemistry I still have a lot of unedited footage from this lab though which screams to be edited
nice you mention NC!
ive read paper about NC using HNO3 as main oxidant one paper said by addition NaNo2 and others H202, usually finished by base neutralizing and centrifuge
iam not bright at cellulose chemistry but did it supposedly HNO3 will produces nitro? or base will neutralize those nitro? because it is sounded very repeatable in backyard lab if doesnt incorporated centrifuge
Would be interesting to see the production of concentrated Orthosilicic acid 🙌 from what I've heard it's quite a challenge.
Awesome!! Question does it matter if can hydrochloric acid too instead of sulfuric acid or doesn’t matter ?
hydrochloric acid cannot be used
It´s possible to use another dehydrating agent like P2O5 or maybe even acetic anhydride but not HCl
@@karolus28
"Cannot be used" ... really?
Technically conventionnal aqueous 25-33% HCl is useless because too dilluted by water... but theorically gaseous dry HCl (100% HCl) and concentrated AgNO3 solution or solid should produce significantly/sufficiently highly concentrated HNO3 and solid AgCl... to allow formation of 100% HNO3.
...but also side reactions producing Ag, Cl2, aqua regia, AgNO3, NxOy, Cl-N=O
Not really cheap nor economical... but possible for desperate cases/ causes.
PHZ
(PHILOU Zrealone from the Science Madness forum)
@@philouzlouis2042 wellp youre right I guess :p
Thanks for the video about nitrobenzene. Does it flammable quickly when touched with a match, or does it need heat like diesel? Thanks
it isn´t even that flammable. you need to heat it
The active reagent in this is the nitronium ion.
I thought you did a great job!
Will the nitration still work if the sulfuric acid is a lower concentration? Like 90-93%.
Yes.
It will work but it will nitrate the cellulose less. For complete nitration you need low water content.
@@lrmackmcbride7498 or heat. But that could be dangerous.
@@emmepombar3328 or another agent to sequester the water.
@@matthewellisor5835 Even better.
Saya telah mendownload vidio anda untuk melihat setiap detail .Dan aku akan membuatnya juga untuk digunakan pada saat berkonflik
Do you think 80% sulfuric acid would work for this is that too much water?
Depends on how nitrated you want it. Less water = more nitration. You can heat sulfuric acid to drive off water. But it is dangerous.
Cool
Sokkal gyorsabban kéne égni. Egy puffanással.
Why does my cotton dissolve when I wash it
i wash in ice Water
The heat turns to paste and then disappears
because it likely is cotton not made from cellulose. try another source for cellulose
@@THYZOID Isn't medical cotton pure cotton?
@@bigice2121 normally it should but in your case i doubt that it is. i mean it dissolved
I guess I should be happy to be alive. 🤔
I experimted with that when I was 13 or 14 years of age.
Around 40 years ago.
We then lived in an apartment block, and my father received some warnings from the owners.
- Back then you could buy all sorts of chemicals legally.
Man hört sofort das du Deutscher bist 😀
Here’s how I do it: ruclips.net/video/J3yS44iv0rY/видео.html
Hoping you can shed some light on why this keep happening to me.
Using 98% H2SO4 and 68% HNO3 under 5C at all times, 100% natural cotton balls slow mix of the acids YET , the product comes out dissolved every time. Again, this is done at very low temperature and slow mixing with no NO2 or 3 as a byproduct. Temperatures were stable at all times.
Removal is done via cold NaHCO3 bath. Why does my product get dissolved like this? I would expect to see this if the temperature were at dangerous levels but it is not. Any ideas?
did you mix the acids beforehand or threw the cotton into the conc sulfuric acid first? it is important to pre mix the acids.
Why is this guy pretending to use concentrated sulphuric acid when he's not? Concentrated sulphuric acid at 98% is called oil of vitriol for a reason, and it has a reddish colour, rather than being clear. Also, the solubility of KNO3 in water and/or H2SO4 at the temperatures required for nitration (
pure sulfuric acid is clear. if yours is reddish it is contaminated. the KNO3 reacts and potassium sulfate is more soluble in sulfuric acid than you might think. next time get your chemistry right before criticising.
@@THYZOID I know the chemistry perfectly. And having tried your proportions and durations, the cellulose burned little differentlty to untreated cotton wool. You don't help yourself by being so unclear in you methods. you mention distilled water, yet no quantity is stipulated. Also, you fail to mention that the nitration process can be compromided by excessive temperature - kind of important given the exothermic nature of the reaction!!
@@nigeldenning5810 tell me why the distilled water is used. if you know you will also understand why quantities are not needed
@@THYZOID Water will dilute the acid, which invalidates the stipulation of a certain strength 9f acid in the first place. 98% H2SO4 combined with an equal quantity of water becomes significantly weaker!!
@@nigeldenning5810 the water was used to get rid of the acid after the nitration