Modular Wargaming Terrain Is Crap
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- How Modular are Modular tables? whats the best option for modular wargaming terrain? Battle matts with Based terrain? comment bellow with how you do it or your compromise.
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The struggle is real.
Your bloody channel has made my struggle much more real .I now have a room full of xps and my 3d printing stuff and a room full of my DnD shit ( and the dinner table is usually covered with battle mats terrain etc to boot. ( hey I do love your channel some great build ideas and the skills needed to do them.
@@soulfirez4270 yep. Curse you Jeremy.
I've made some damn nice stuff though
For a relatively large contiguous play area I slightly modified the boardgamegeeks gaming table to include storage for 4'x4' terrain boards between the table legs.
imgur.com/a/l4rsJ4M
The notches in legs line up to hold a 4x4 sheet at each corner, which drops neatly into the tabletop when the leaf top is removed.
The good new is that it works from a purely mechanical perspective. The bad news is that I built this just before everything started going pear shaped so I've had little motive to test it.
The main challenge I see is that there's risk of the terrain board sagging over time as it's only supported at the corners. Maybe band with aluminum bracketing to increase rigidity?
And it also takes up leg room. Which isn't as much of a problem for a wargaming table, since wargames are typically played standing in my experience, but it is a nuisance if I want to use the table for both warming and rpg style tabletop.
Modular tiles are fantastic for city-scapes & urban settings, mainly because cities tend to be built in blocks & having road sections is ideal.
Modular tiles for fantasy terrain, isn't that great. As you said, it can make everything rather flat & ruins the aesthetic.
Infact, I made a sizable board for my urban gaming & I hate it because it isn't modular & thus I can't do much with it.
I think that's the way to sell it to your customers, man
Two suggestions for your city board. A railroad and or a modular elevated highway. That way you could have trains and tracks or just tracks. The elevated highway could be moved around the board and help give your streets some variability.
I wholeheartedly disagree. Cityscapes are horrible in modular forms. You're better off with a grey mat, no roads. Let your buildings create the roads. If your buildings are parallel and perpendicular to the edges of your table, and dictated by printed roads or the imitations of tiles then it will be boring with long lines of fire and too much open space, as well as being prone to nearly identical set ups. With a mat, some scatter and stand alone buildings, you can do crazy things like cut off roads, jogs, and a diagonal set up , things you cant do with a modular set or pre-printed mat.
@@readhistory2023 Great ideas, man. May make some ruined railroad tracks using some cable-ties & wooden coffee stirrers. Cheers, dude
Idk dude, cities might be in blocks in the US, but in the UK, they're often wobblier than the suburbs. Winding roads, random pedestrianised areas, etc.
The issue with city boards is that everyone assumes that because the tiles are square that the city blocks have to be too. simply by rotating the blocks within the tiles to the same consistent angle you can create much more visual interest by having the city at an angle to your game board edges. You get tile edges at angles across your roads, but you had tile edges down the middle of the roads anyway.
Also with a little imagination and a variety of tiles (which is why you have modular terrain in the first place) you can create sections of city that are 1/2 or 1/4 tile in size (or some multiple) that will still tesselate in many ways. You can also have roads at various angles.
Cities aren't flat either. It is entirely possible to have changes in level... overhead railways and eleveated walkways are common and can span at different angles to the tiles below. But with a little thought, subways are also possible. As are slopes and hills. All it takes is a little more planning and imagination before rushing out to buy boring old 90 degree city block style pre printed/laser cut tiles.
At the moment I'm just getting into gaming again after about 20+ years out, largely due to the release of new Necromunda which I loved back in the 90's.
My plan so far is to paint a load of MDF terrain, which I can dismantle and store sort of flatish, plus an underhive themed PVC mat and make a few feature bits of terrain like toxic pools and such.
The mat is easy enough to store, roll it up and bob's your father's brother. The terrain I can store in plastic stackable boxes that I've nabbed from work and can stack in a corner of a spare room, or under a bed or something.
As for my table I have a plan at the moment to make two 3x4 halves of a 6x4 table which I can fit together to put on top of my slightly too small dining table. I'm going to have to devise some sort of sturdy mechanism to lock them together and then to grab them onto the edges of the dining table to keep them in place so it doesn't tip if someone leans on it. That'll be the tricky bit.
But I'll see how it goes, at the moment I've just finished painting the mdf terrain, I'm halfway through the terrain and objective markers the game comes with, then I've got 3 gangs to paint. So it's all going to be a bit of a project. I'm loving it though, good to be back at it.
My ideal: 2-3 2'x4' sheets of MDF covered in a grass mat (no grid lines!) and then covered in scatter terrain and hills. The mat rolls up, all the scatter in boxes.
Interesting view point. I play on a coffee table with my son, the best terrain we have is my cup of tea and his bottle of water. Oh and maybe the odd crisp packet ! I haven’t got time to find a regular gaming group but in the future I plan on building a gaming shed !
Oh to be a kid and have an imagination again..... lol Most of us adults have been spoiled and want terrain that Luke Towan built lol
@@HotelCharliHill For some reason this reminds me of an old xbox arcade game called ToySoldiers. It was a tower defense but game, but a huge chunk of the charm came from the fact that it was all taking place in a tabletop wargame. When you looked into the foggy distance you realize the whole game map exists on a table or a desk in somebody's den or bedroom and all of the soldiers are either tin men or wind up toys/models.
I feel like that aesthetic has huge potential for people who don't have room for a real hobby space. Like imagine a train sim that's about model trains. :D
We heard you like toy trains. So we put toys train in your train game so you can play with trains while you play with trains!
@@Bustermachine cool, I just saw the gameplay and it looks neat :)
Is it time to embrace 6mm-10mm wargames? Fit the terrain into a shoebox?
maybe not a shoebox but definitely a large tote. Got to say I LOVE 10mm and 12mm for wargaming. Having artillery and tanks and planes actually make sense is great.
@@UnknownJorge Holy mother of F , what about us pour old farts ? I have to use magnifying glasses to paint my 28 mm scale figures ( both home printed and bought) Ill be screaming I am going to crush the skull of the orc and end up killing a bar wench as she was so small i couldnt tell the difference ( but seriously hard to see from 3 foot as in around a table and would tripple the amount I use my resin printer as the FDM would never handle that size .
Just go digital... COMMAND AND CONQUER!
@@soulfirez4270 You paint differently. On a 28mm Mini you have far more detailwork to do. on a 10mm or smaller mini you work mostly on the big parts.
So no beltpouches, buckles, eyes etc
its good on the eyes
I would love to shift to 6mm scale for most of my wargaming, but sadly the trend seems to go the other way right now with the scale creeping towards 32mm.
The best table system is the one which suits the player or owner.
I use commercial flocked polystyrene one foot squares over which I place commercial flocked polystyrene hills in any combination or number that I wish.
I mainly do 15mm wargaming and that six foot by four foot (6 squares by 4 squares) table keeps me very happy at a mass battle level. It would not suit others.
I'd say spend some extra time on the edges of your tiles so that they fit together without such obvious large gaps, and use magnets to keep them connected. Have more variety in your forest tiles to allow for different layouts (those half-tiles aren't really necessary; just make a full tile that's only half forest, or 1/4 forest, or whatever, for example. Plan your tiles with these types of features in the context of whether each edge is a full edge, half edge, or empty). Or maybe don't even use forest tiles and just use smaller forest bases on top of your other tiles. Game mats can be great if you can afford a selection of them, but modular tiles can be super cheap to make. You can slowly add to your collection over time with minimal funds, and you can even easily create transition pieces to allow you to do things like have a forest on the edge of an urban area. Since this is a hobby, I tend to prefer terrain that I've built and is uniquely mine versus something mass produced that I've purchased. I also don't have the space to store multiple full sized tabletops, but finding space to store much smaller tiles that stack is significantly easier.
I want a math genius to do the algorithms and sketch out how to make tiles with undulating terrain that can meet seamlessly on all sides so that 6 or 8 or 12 tiles can create endless variation. Flat tiles with some mounds or forests on them look terrible. But my 3-dimensional visualization isn't good enough to figure it out in my head and sketch it.
@@HotelCharliHill this thread and this comment in particular weirdly nailed the exact issue I've been struggling to put into words
As far as storage is concerned, I think the ideal terrain for me is card terrain like battle systems. As long as you enjoy the aesthetic of it, you can fit more than a 6*4 worth of terrain in a 32l storage box.
Modular tables broken into a dozen or more tiles aren't for me - too many large components to store and the grid is killer.
Hobby level Wargaming is inherently space intensive. Space for assembly/painting, space for storage of minis, and if you play at home, space for terrain/boards. Anyone who doesn't understand this should probably consider getting into wargaming from jump.
As for modular terrain, it's a very polarizing topic. Some love it because it adds a bit of change to the static board, and it's quite storage friendly like you've said. I wargame at home as much as I can because the closest FLGS to me is a 45 minute drive. I embrace both Mat based and modular terrain, as I convert my billiard table to a wargaming table when I need it, and can store it all back in totes and into the garage when it's all said and done. Back to Basix sold mdf squares for modular terrain years ago...hell I think they still offer it. They made Whole, half and quarter squares, as well as ravine tiles. All affixed with rare earth magnets. Those combinations could make for incredible "modularity". Static tables have thier place as well, but I'd agree on frequency of play making them very boring quickly.
I do think the title of this vid is a bit clickbaity though..I mean you state it's crap in the title then spend 9 minutes talking about how it's good under certain circumstances, including your own current one.
That's it we need holo-tables, dam it Elon we don't need space-x or hyper-loops, we need holo-tables to play on...
My son has been talking about VR gaming tables for the last 3 or 4 years.
We generally use 3x 4ft x 2ft underboards, these sit on a 6ft oval table, on top we add modular terrain, the 3 boards are a basic flat grassland on 1 side and a flat urban area on the other. everything else is modular and is stored in several large plastic stacking boxes / chests.
When you say modular what exactly are you talking about. Your boards are grass lands on one side and urban on the other, so what is your level of modularity?
@@JPGotrokkits well seeing he must be throwing scatter terrain on top of basic boards , his modularity would be well ,near endless . The trade off is then set up time and things not being set in place so you knock stuff over etc etc .
1ft by 1ft modular terrain. I have stuck down my Sector Mechanicas onto them so i can push them together and they meet up.
I like WINTER SEO's table set up best. Mats with modular terrain and using rocks and flock to blend terrain into the mat. No obnoxious gridlines like modular tables, but not restrictive and time consuming to make like a static table.
Perfect for me ? Gaming mat with some easy storage buildings (like mad gaming terrain, you can stack them) but i play only futuristic so I don't need open air terrain
Great discussion. My solution is gaming mats and some terrain to put on top. Not perfect but it works well for me despite small storage space.
You can make 3x4's or whatever size modular tiles (x4 = 6x8 terrain), or even a full 6x8" terrain piece, and store it sideways on a slight angle against a wall, makes for an interesting art piece. Just don't let your messy drunk buddy get drunk near it or he may stumble backwards into it. The other idea is storing underneath on shelves below the table if you have the room, but you already mentioned that. You could also play the terrain for a year then sell it or donate it to the games shop or something. That's all I got.
I do it a bit different. I have modular 2 foot square diorama tiles with buildings on them which sit on top of a cobble mat to make a town. The edges on the modular boards have pavements on 1-2 sides, lines up into paved streets, and it allows me to configure a WW2 town as I wish and allows me to make detailed scenes such as gardens behind the houses.
What I did was define the play area on the table - a 2'x4' area. From there, I build a 2'x4' board that is the base terrain - either water or green area or desert area - whatever. Then, I'm free to put whatever I want on that. If I want a river, I can build a river to slap on top of it. I can build individual hills, trees, buildings, whatever.
And the 2'x4' base board can easily be sub-divided for storage or other game play ideas.
In the last year I've come around on 12x12 inch modular tiles by using "artist boards" - pine frames with a basswood/plywood panel on top. They're made for paintings, but are very rigid, lightweight, and inexpensive. What makes them work aesthetically for me is that they have very straight edges and a very small gap when pressed together in a grid. The edges of each square won't curl or warp so everything looks clean.
Love the versatility of modular tiles. You sell some great ground scenics Luke and it is these I use to hide the grid lines and blend everything together.
The perfect wargames terrain setup would be to build a Josef Fritzl style dungeon, populate it with a clone made from Lukes DNA, regularly supply the 'Luke Clone', lets call him Cluke with terrain building material, and in trade for food have a brand new terrain board built complete EVERY week! Also, make sure you have a never ending supply of Yorkshire biscuit tea or the terrain boards will be sub-standard from the dungeon.
Maybe they should make a gaming mat with elevation built into it. Like 3D gaming mats.
Even though it has elevations in it you can still roll it up.
Judging by your eyes mate you've either been pouring resin or not slept for a week 😂, awesome video as always mate
Jules_paints_40 K whiskey and weed !
Dark Matter Workshop nah mate if he’s been doing weed his eyes would be red
I'd say Hayfever 😊
An idea I've experimented with, at least for 4x4 gaming terrain is to take the boardgaming geek's gaming table and modify it to hold a spaced 4x4 board between the legs under the tabletop by cutting notched into them so that boards will be supported at each table leg while in storage. This involves adjusting how the legs are attached to his design but when tested it with a sheet of MDF it at least worked mechanically.
Simply select a complete 4x4 sheet, slide it out, and pop it in place on the top.
Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to test it in practice due to covid and using the under table for storage really cuts into leg room for role playing games.
Why are you down on your hands and knees, at top of stairs?
;)
I used to play WH40K (2nd edition; yes, I'm that old) on an 8'x4'.
One day, I decided to venture into making some modular trenches for my board. These were 6"x6"x3" (L/W/H) apiece. I built all of the combinations - straight lines, corners, t-junctions and crossroad, sections with raised areas 3" deep and 1/2" deep for firing positions, etc...
I also had to make sections that 'blended' the effectively 3" tall trench sections into the rest of the board. Took a lot of effort to construct the 40-ish terrain pieces and store them, but ultimately it was an optional set-up that added that extra dynamic in a game of 40K.
I have wrestled with this question for quite a while since I don't like the grid these modular tables leave and I don't have a lot of storage space. I ended up building a mat using acrylic caulking, sand, paint and yours flocks as well as some static grass. Rolled up it takes up very little space, hills can be put on top or formed by putting books under the mat, and it looks great with individually based terrain pieces on top. For storing those pieces, I am looking at boxes which fit easily under the bed or at shelves (think ikea billy) - still haven't made up my mind yet.
My kill team board is built into a picture frame. A 22-by-30 inches Desert /Wasteland Wallart with a 45mm black border is sure to look really good on the wall.
For me it's a few large chunks broken that can be repositioned. Like whole 2x2 squares and only 6 of them will get you a lot of variation
The problem with your example is I feel it's not the best. Also skirmish games like mordhiem and frostgrave (which are much more terrain heavy than wargames) you need to mix things up more
Still most of your points are valid
Love mats for transport , and the ability to have any table you want. but also have started building 4x4 permanent tables with 2ft or 1ft modular river, city sections, or large monastics, castles etc. I use teddy bear fur with door seals, and magnets.
Cheers
Matt
French Wargame Holidays
Mayenne
France
I think 3x1 is the "easiest" option, if you want texture. hils and stuff. A forest on one plade, big lake on the 2nd and cityscape on the 3th... then you make sure every edge fit well.
I have currently a full war table that consist of one flat piece... and to make terrain that is nice and different to play on is a pain. because Everything starts on the same lv. so your pieces eiter have to be BIG, or you need to make more levels into your design. which is possible.... but in the end it still looks flat, with tower like buildings.
I have also tried moduler... everything fit into a 10x10 cm sizes or greater... keeping the same measure... my biggest being a 60x60cm... which ended up being to big for storage. and had to be dismantled. now my biggest is a 40x40( i think).. But all the small 20x20 and 10x10 is just annoying to place on the table... and often i find myself not using them...
so in the end i didn't like this idea.
so my next table is going to be 3x1 with everything i need on the table, besides some small modular variation on top of those. A big tree/tower vs Rocks vs a building and such.
I started with 6mm a couple of years ago, and haven't looked back since. I can play with massive armies, it's cheap, fun and easy to paint and I can also have tons of different kinds of terrains.
On top of that, storage isn't really an issue with 6mm...
I love the idea of those tiles. Loved it when you showed them before. But I can get a custom 3x3 game mat printed for $70 (i have a graphics background so creating my own digital assets is easy) and I think I'd rather store terrain instead of tiles, even if they are pretty cool, like these. You can go to one extreme and use cardstock terrain and minis that can fold flat and your storage paradigm becomes way easier. Not everyone is into that though it does drastically lower the investment to get into the hobby. I actually scrapped a ton of game crafting supplies a couple of years ago and went whole hog into paper craft gaming because my wife and I just don't have the room to keep a bin of crafting supplies AND the end results. Now I have a FDM 3D printer and I find myself eyeing a resin printer too. So in a sense I have come full circle but at least now the assets I use to create my terrain are 90% digital. Always enjoy your content, keep up the good work.
Problem I had, was that I incorporated rocks small bushes ponds etc. into my first board. Looked nice, but reeeally limited where terrain could be put (and hindered the placement of models too, sometimes). Since then, I always prefer 2D solutions, and I just put the rocks and stuff on top. Sprinkle some rubble/flock around it, maybe a bit of lichen, and you're good. So basically I gave up modularity one way, and chose mats and modularity with the things on top of it (I can absolutely change the table by changing the objects on it, especially as this way they can be anywhere).
Of course, its a gaming issue. If it's a display board, train layout, etc., the more 3D the better :-)
Edit: Winters SEO battle reports is a nice example of the wargaming solution I'm talking about
Luke, this was your best video! Good discussion ! I use 2' x2' x2" foam tiles. I made six tiles with NW European flocking etc and the reverse side is desert. Then I have another six tiles with the same but roads cut in different modular paths. Then four with connecting shoreline.If you stack them it makes a decent column. If you seal the terrain well they dont chip and if they do its an easy touch up. Buidlings/trees/bunkers etc stored separate.
I have just replaced two closet doors. They happen to be 77 by 24. I already put in pegs so the will hold together while I make one 48 by 77 board. They come apart for storage too.
They are flat, so all terrain that goes on them doesn't blend in well.
At the club I used to go to, we had chipboard tables & add the terrain on top. When I was playing flames of war (15mm scale) we made the best scenery the club ever had) the hills looked good, we made roads, rivers, bought & made buildings. We did this for normal European, winter (Eastern front) & Desert. The problem is always storage, whichever way you choose.
Great vid Luke, keep them coming.
I agree with you. There is not one way to suit all. Before my gaming room (still not completed) used to just have a 6by4 MDF board that just went on a kitchen table and terrain in a box. Now have a Portable 6by4 table and about 8 gaming mats with terrain in sections in boxes. Works for a gaming but not for the artist. Christopher DBG
I think if we talk limited space i would go with a bunch of two sided battlemats and scatter terrain. Maybe some "terrain" you can put under the battlemat for some elevation on the mats. If you want a photorealistic model look, you need to have space to store it and if its looking good enough, why not hang it on a wall? Put some wheels under the shelves you store your minis in and put the table up against the wall behind the shelves. When you set up you can just roll the shelves aside, plop the table down... or use the Table as "doors" for your shelves. Fit them with a hook system at one end and hang them on some sturdy cable or round pieces to make them into sliding covers for your shelves. Modular gaming tables are only really interesting if you game a lot or make them a lot smaller for your Pen&Paper campaigns and such.
That's exactly my thought about many of the "modular terrain" out there. Just because you can seperate the tiles does'nt mean you can have much variation in it.
I go for simple grasmat-3mm-MDF-boards. Using 8 of them with each one being 70x70cm large wich gives me an 1,40x2,80m gaming table for 1/72nd WW2 mass-battles. I have lots of scatter terrain and use simple railway trees with wire at the bottom wich I can simply stick into textured foam plates wich serve as forrest ground. Roads can be made with sand sprinkled directly on the boards.
Pros: I don't need much space or money, the variety of buildable terrain is literally endless, it must not be flat and boring and can look quite realistic if enough time is spent in building the scatter-pieces and arranging them on the board.
Cons: It does not look as realistic as a single-piece-table and it takes much time to arrange and disassemble the gaming table
I made a video about how I make my tables at my channel 1 or 2 years ago. It's in german though.
Best really modular terrain I've seen so far was made by a guy that works at Weta Workshop (the LOTR movie modelling guys) it's somewehere around here on yt.
I think Adam Savage made a Video about that table
Great video! I have to say I haven’t played a single tabletop game yet. From March 2020 until March 2021 I was painting 2 armies (together a little over 300 figures). Now I am building a battle board. I am making 8 tiles 60cm x 60 cm or 2’ x 2’. 6 tiles are going to be relatively flat with scatter terrain and other 2 are going to be fixed not really playable but more as a piece of scenery, miniature terrain for display with, a beautiful river passing through them. I am still considering making 1 tile 2’ x 4’ rather than 2 tiles but as mentioned in the video a number of times - space.
Fuck yes, 6 and 10mm videos! Exciting stuff.
Incidentally, they are the answer for all the issues you mention in this video.
I wouldn't use it for trees, rivers, or other terrain features. just plain terrain with hills. So you can have a sturdy gaming board with your kind of base terrain (arid, marsian, grassland, city, even mixed ...) and the rest is added as you like (even diagonal rivers and roads if you like)
It helps to look for non-traditional storage. I live in a townhouse style condomin with 3 skinny floors stacked on top of each other. It's not tiny, but storage is at a premium.
I use part of the the basement as my gaming & hobby area with a desk set up to one side and storage around it.
I also have a gaming table (2x4 Basics brand kit) in the middle of the room that can become hobby work space for larger projects. It has a full 8x4 sheet of plywood and it has 2 storage full 8x4 shelves under the table for terrain, scenery and large models. However, my cats do tend to congregate on the middle shelf as well. That's a compromise since they aren't allowed on top.
I have utilized the space under my guest bed in the next room by lifting the bed with risers, filling plastic totes of nearly that height with terrain, then sliding the under the bed.
Since it is the basement, there is a small storage closet, but I have also utilized the spaces between the joists and by hanging a frame from the joists around the edges of the room that holds plastic tubs. Shelves would be another option there.
Near the door, I've placed a pair of tall cabinets to hold even more terrain.
A buddy of mine uses bookshelves for this.
On top of my table, I have 4 pieces to an old ping pong table (table tennis) top. They are each 2.5' x 4.5' and can be configured as a large 9x5 playing surface or a 10' x 4.5' monster table for two smallish games of Warhammer 40K or AoS, two games of Kill Team or Warcry, or one Apocalypse sized game table.
I just set up my terrain pieces on it as needed.
1. Build a full table flat, and hang it on the wall.
2. Build modular tiles and don't perma-mount your trees, or add other free-floating scatter trees and features that can blend forests together.
- 2.1Instead of a big 2x2 tile you can't store, leave it as separate 1x1 tiles that are designed to fit together as a single unit so that you don't have to center everything on a grid.
- 2.2 Wire your forests together so that the branches all touch. Rather than putting your forest on a base, have canopy hold it all together while the trunks act as legs, like a table.
3. Use a neoprene mat and low-profile bases for all your terrain (use thin plasticard and build it up where you need, rather than shaving down a lump of mdf)
4. Use cloth mats, draped over foam floor pads carved to create contours. Stick your trees on with pins. Bury the seams around other pieces with coarse flock and pebbles that you dump back in the tin after every game.
--Use a mix and match of all these techniques to meet your storage needs. Maybe don't hang a 6x4 on the wall - maybe hang a couple of 3x4s and have them be "modular" along one edge so that you can put a them together in different pairs. Have several different tile sizes, 2x2, 3x3, 4x1, 'L' shapes, etc and then fill in around the sides with 1x1 flats. Make all of your contouring modular, but then pin a cloth mat over it. Honestly, unless you have to travel a lot, almost anything is better than a neoprene mat. You're a creative guy. This is a creative hobby - people can figure it out.
It’s not the most imaginative but I find that using a mat in combination with terrain based on specific rules works well for storage. By that I mean hollow terrain pieces without a base that scatter can be placed inside when not in use, use relatively simple terrain pieces such as bunkers or block houses (think Middle Eastern compounds etc.) and shipping containers to give a large amount of terrain which will stack almost like Lego in a storage box. Then have one or two scenic pieces with odd shapes and angles to break it all up and make I look less uniform even with a slight variation in height (stacking containers and building on the table). It’s not perfect and could be a little boring after a while but I’ve yet to get overly bored of it until I get a hobby space big enough to do skirmish textured boards.
I have a 6 x 4 table in a dedicated gaming room. My twins and their mates are keen players of 40k, and I enjoy building terrain (as well as play the occasional game). We use mats, plus terrain pieces, and that works well, but space is becoming an issue. For desert terrain I bought a big piece of sand coloured towelling!
I've considered using modular tiles. There's a range out there with wiggly edges, not straight, and they interlock well, but they lack the depth yours have, which make for much better rivers and trench lines. I've thought about building Bocage terrain, using hedges along the join lines, and putting terrain pieces on top of the tiles, in order to hide at least some of the grid. Unfortunately most modular tile systems are made on the opposite side of the planet from me, so they're expensive.
I used to play 15mm ancients. Oh, much simpler to do terrain. A green board, with a few hills, and maybe some small buildings...so easy and cheap!
I've got a 3x3 board flocked up on a nice solid base with a frame around it to protect against bumps but its also doesnt have any height variation. I have a road running 1 foot away from the edge on 2 sides so I've got a crossroads if I want it, a straight road section if I want it or whatever if I'm playing a game that uses 2x2 or if I want to use the whole 3x3 I have a TON of buildings, forests and stuff that I can scatter all over my board and do dozens and dozens of different layouts. It's basically a fancier version of having a roll out mat.
I store my board on its edge on my closet thanks to the frame around the outside and all of my terrain scatter bits go in 2-3 totes
3 or 4 mats urban ruin for .. ruins, muddy fields for a forest, chem zone for industrial but I have alot of terrain to switch it up! I have big plastic boxes to store the terrain pieces!
i have experimented with having terrain under the mat, to make it look less flat. it works well with games without any special rules for hills or high ground, LoS is worked out with an average laser pointer. it looks great with neoprene mats, a bit less so with thinner mats.
World Works Games made some great print and play tiles that are more modular and that have tons of different themes in 1 inch, 1.5 inch grids and gridless. I play everything from D&D, Necromunda, Burrows and Badgers, 40K, etc on these and they are wonderful. Everything packs flat with the exceptions of trees, cliffs, buildings, and other vertical structures, but they are manageable. They stopped supporting their website a while ago, and it has been down, but, if you can find it, it is worth the look.
I am divided on the subject. On one hand, a mat is easy to store, quick to roll out and roll up again and is generally really good looking (I love the mats that TableTopTactics and TheStrikingScorpion use from Gamemat). I don't like that they are always the same and if you were to play only once every couple of months, that might not be a problem, but we play about every month and always at home (we don't have gameshop nearby enough that we can easily pop in after work or school), and sometimes, when a tourney is coming up, a little more often to test army ideas. I have the same problem with my own 6'x4' three section board I made, that can only be set up one way. After a while, you know where certain buildings or terrain pieces are gonna be placed (and we are the kind of people that hate to put buildings in the middle of roads).
On the other, I understand the problems with modular terrain. Although I would rather have a load of those little 1'x1's or maybe even 2'x2' boards, that I can store relatively easily, is able to be somewhat modular and can be made to look like a battlefield that is different from others (even if it means buying/making enough to make an 8'x6' or 8'x8' table to have enough pieces so that every piece can be different. The seams, in my opinion, are not really a big deal, but I can understand if others do think it is annoying. Storage space in my new home will be less of an issue, since my wargaming room is 4.85mx3.75m and the adjacent hobbyroom is 3.85mx3.85m, with a storage attic above it, which is 6m deep and about 3m wide.
The perfect solution would be a holographic projector the size of a laptop with a post to project downward from onto a table, with a customizable dimension setup.
I think 12 2x2 tiles, all of them done to the same sort of theme where each 2x2 is set with a different dominant feature. Thus giving you the ability to make 924 different 6x4s, 495 different 4x4s, or 144 different 6x8s. This minimises the number of tile edges you see, as well as being as storable as 3 different 6x4s. The only issue is, you have only 1 theme. As for things like roads and rivers, they can be built separately and stand on the board offering more customisation.
But the real solution, win the lottery, get an old warehouse and build yourself like 100 different gaming tables.
What about textured canvas mat or teddybear fur mat with hills made out of foam underneath? Use baseless buildings and trees/rocks/shrubs with baseless pins for sticking into the foam terrain underneath and you get rid of those ugly base lines. The only issue then would be rivers. Building-storage could be an issue, but if you put a protective finish on everything, you might be able to store them in the Kallax boxes. The foam hills just throw together in a bin and the blanket/mat you can just roll up. Trying it myself and so far, its working alright. Great videos and content Luke! Keep up the good work!
So, some alternate modular table ideas.
1) You mentioned sizing down the squares but perhaps a mixing of the mentioned smaller squares, mid size (ie. as shown), and large, and or even an extra large set would be a better way to go?
2) Who needs squares?! Anyone tried triangular pieces? Sure, you might end up needing to experiment with ideal size, and failing that to work, how about hexagons? Interlocking star pattern of some sort? Ehh, the last one maybe not. The hexagon will probably need specialty corner pieces.
3) Easy to disassemble hinged squares with four comprising a half a table in size, or maybe even a whole one?
4) more terrain to deal with flatness = solved that one, boss 😏
I dunno. Just some ideas, in case they might do something for ya but in any case there ya go.
I use a technique of hanging my full boards on my bedroom wall, almost like artwork. Haven't got anywhere else to store them, and it stops dust settling on the surface.
100 percent agree fixed tables all day luke enjoying ya channel thumbs up !!!!! flat boards n use space for terrain fixed all day long cheap to ree do if needed we all have our own tastes but we are as one with wargaming....
Space - the eternal battle. Generally the house has enough but herself is not impressed with the indoor mancave. So storage becomes a garage shed thing. Purpose build timber/plastic or converted office storage. Lined so it is dry and rodent proof. Then you can store modular tiles to your heart's content. Yes the tiles need to be bigger. 18" maybe hex or Octagon if you can get some cut precisely enough. I'm going to be experimenting with one tile and casting in (lightweight) resin adding undulating terrain as needed. But looking at locking together too. Anyway. Nice that you can be honest and say 'not happy' and 'not sure where to go'. Kudos.
Currently I am lucky enough to have my own hobby/gaming room, but my storage set up is this:
Theres a large 6×4 table that I built in the centre of the room, which doubles as both something to put my gaming table on and as a scenery building desk (I have a separate desk for miniature painting on the other side of the room). Underneath the large table there is a 2×4 shelf, on which I can store my current gaming table (made up of 6 2×2 tiles) if its stacked up, and have space to store another one next to it if I make one in the future. Terrain and miniatures are then stored on IKEA shelving along the walls. It's a pretty large room, so I get that this set up wouldnt work for someone with more limited space, but I thought I'd just throw in my two cents on storage.
Also, if anyone is wondering why the shelf underneath is 2×4 as opposed to 6×4 there are a couple reasons: 1) its actually the offcut from the end of the table. The sheet of wood I bought for the tabletop was 8×4, so I just cut off the last 2 foot. 2) i sit at the table while building terrain, and my d&d group also sit around the same table to play, so we needed leg room 😂
I started out back in the day (in the 90s) using TSS polystyrene terrain tiles and hills, then changed over to Geo Hex (hexagonal styrene) and eventually hexagon (plastic hexes). Now I use a mat and put hills underneath the mat, and I have lots of ‘plonk down’ high quality terrain. Sometimes I put the geo hex underneath the mat to create ridges and valleys. It works for 6mm and 10mm, as well as for 28mm.
is it possible to store 4'x6' vertically without buildings/high hills?
Stopped gaming in 25mm in the eighties, moved over or down to 15mm and 6mm. easy storage and bigger armies on the field of the kitchen table. remember Citadel brought out traveller figures in 15mm back in the eighties.. But really looking forward to the vids on the smaller terrain. Nice work Luke..
Terrain is always a compromise in gaming. If storage is a limitation, then mats and modular pieces are the best option, although you sacrifice aesthetics, as you mentioned. But, to create a single piece table that may have limited use is a waste of money and materials. The option being having multiple tables with "universal" terrain features that offer multiple gaming scenarios. But, again, these limit playability options and storage becomes the issue. Sometimes the old methods are best, as there are no good compromises. Gaming mats with moveable terrain pieces (rivers, hills, forests, etc.), I think, is the best method we can attain. After all, it's all about the enjoyment of the game, not the table. Love your videos, Luke! Keep up the great work!
You can make a really interesting board with just a good mat and a lot of little bits of terrain: pipes, razorwire, tank traps, barricades, craters, fences, etc. You dont always need tall trees/buildings. Lots of little things will fit nicely into a shoebox or single kallax
I'm going to pick up a bunch of 12" linoleum tiles for .89 cents per (there's so much variety - slate/flat/stone) and where the edges don't meet up visually just get creative with flocking. They should stack extremely flat. Build some scatter hills / rocks... plop em wherever... that's like $24 for a 4x6' modular battlemat. I feel like it's a good solution because of how cheap each tile is and how easily you could muck each one up to look different enough not to notice the repeat pattern... I haven't done this but it seems like a quick n dirty solution
Also - why not grab slightly textured linoleum and then PRIME it and then paint away? boom each tile is different - granted this idea still isn't "modular" as in mix-n-match so much as like... building a single "fixed textured mat" that can be broken down and stored easily - Now i'm picturing setting them all up in the configuration you want (3x3' for AoS Vanguard?) doing each tile much the same way we base our models... dirt n super glue... prime... paint... flock... PVA spray or spray fixative. keeping the profile on all of them relatively the same "height" like..not going over 3mm so they can really stack flat. The marriage of strong contrasting textures at the shallowest depth possible... then of course as stated... add scatter terrain - PS the "white marble" linoleum would make excellent snowy ice terrain :)
I think it's up to the individual and their needs really, I use a lot of MDF tiles and mix bits of scatter and use some of my own mats with different surfaces which I can roll up and put away. This is all mainly for my Sons D&D group. I have a small flat so big gaming tables and even some of those modular tiles would be impossible for me to store.
I've been toying with the idea of storing them hooked up to the timber framing of my garage ceiling. Just need to work out how.
Greg White hook and eyes. It’ll work perfectly for what you want to achieve.
@@Jammil2477 I still what some modularity, so I need the coupling to be recessed. Or I choose 1 side of the board pieces to be dedicated to being on the edge so the protruding eyes don't prevent the boards from sitting flush.
Greg White you could screw the eye in, then marry up where you want it to to interface your other parts and slightly cut out the area. So, for example, place the eye into the middle of an edge, then marry up its opposite piece and then remove what’s required. We are only talking a about a CM depth and wide. You then obviously can hook onto whatever with ease and still utilise the eye to create a little stability on connecting your boards together.
If you can be clever enough, you could hook and eye the entire outer rim with ease. Locking everything together, holding it ridged and still having the ability to hang up with no problem. We are looking at the grand cost of about £5.
Use these for the second way.. Merriway® BH01745 Gate Hook and Eye, 100mm (4 inch) - Bright Zinc Plated, Pack of 2 www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00L3E8JMI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_x8KlDbJEA5B8N
Or these for the second.
20 x Hooks and eyes 25mm net wire curtain screws - 10 x hooks & 10 x eyes www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002UNJ8EO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_K9KlDbV3DENBH
@@Jammil2477 My boards to date have been 3mm Hardboard with XPS foam glued to them. I'd need to mount them to a timber frame to give the screws something to bite into. Thanks for the discussion.
You made some very good points about the cons of modular terrain setups... Personally im happy with a mat and placing terrain ontop of that... The main game i play is Dropzone Commander and you can happily play it on a cityscape mat (i have two such mats... They are 6 X 4 made up of 1 x 1 tiles... They are high quality prints on mouse mat type material) generally i use alot of 10mm MDF terrain... And the table looks great setup when we play in such a fashion at my gaming Club... (First Founding Gaming in Hook Chessington) in the Club we not so long ago went through all the terrain we store locally and got better storage boxes for it all and sorted through what we wanted to keep and what we didnt need (due to damage or whatever) storage is a big problem that needs to be looked at in most cases... Thanks for another super useful video Luke! Also i love all the work you put into your modular board...
Nice you play Dropzone Commander. I am making a city modular terrain for that game too.
I think we need methods to hide the joins between different terrain elements. Ever since the first time I saw a cheap styrofoam hill on a flat table I've hated the hard shadow between the hill and the table. Those shadows ruin immersion and makes the terrain look fake. The modular tiles in this video is bordered by a similar hard shadow that looks horribly fake as well. We really, really need a nice way to hide those joins and hard shadow. If we had that method there would be tons of new ways to make modular boards. I've thought of using fake fur to overlap the join, but haven't tried it. Another method that might work is using foam flock that partially overlaps the joins.
There is no perfect setup for all situations. Storage is definitely the limiting factor - but I find your modular system as more storage intensive than my larger boards. I use 3 2'x4' MDF boards. one side is black for BFG/ space games and for board games. The other side is painted with various browns to mimic textured mud/earth. I have a number of freestanding large hills/mountains, craters, ruins, buildings which require no bases/lumps.
My trees are individual or on small "kidney" shaped bases with 3-4 trees on each. The bases are 3d printed to keep them thin to minimise bumps, but with static grass etc on them it leaves nice mud paths through the forested areas and denote easily what counts as difficult terrain.
The boards go under the bed in the spare room. it's a Divan, so it was never going to have storage in it's 1.5" clearance from the deck anyway, so no big loss. The scenery to go on it takes less space than that modular set - and it can all be arranged with much more freedom that a fixed 1'x1' tileset.
Also, loose terrain over the three large boards covers the majority of the two connecting lines, so very little "grid effect" left.
I like the look of your tiles, but when you have an obvious 12" grid on the board sneaky boogers can use that to cheat a bit on "guessed" measurements. 6" move and 6" charge.. I WONDER if I'll make it this turn...
Ideally I'd love a full 6'x4' fixed one-piece 18" deep fully sculpted board - but I'd have to put the chonky git on a pully and hoist it to the ceiling when not in use..
Damn. Now I've given myself a ridiculous idea...😅😅😅
If easy storage is very important to you (modular) then all you can really do is reduce the tolerance between each piece so those gridy gaps disappear. Also, if you link each of the pieces using dowels, it will give it more stability and will keep them gaps closed when bumping into them.
large flat foam tiles with flat details, no rivers or structures or tall or chunky things. Then you add terrain you've built which is based similarly to the tiles. The play area itself is modular, the tiles are too but it's irrelevant cause they're similar, the upside is you end up with extra area on the tiles for you dice, books, units not in play. And you end up with less unsightly splits between the tiles as the tiles are larger and still easy to store as they are just flat, slightly detailed sheets. I base my terrain ,and this does take up extra space which sucks, but it blends in better as you're moving the seams from the table tiles to the terrain bases. The only other thing worth doing like you said is a dedicated gaming table but space aside, you're making your terrain features permanent; that forest in the middle of the table.. ya that's always gonna be a forest. Modular terrain lets you change up the terrain, you don't have to base it like I do and it'll still look great, plus you can change up the table tiles. You can also tape the foam squares with good tape before you paint and flock them so the tiles can be folded, plus it hides a bunch of your seams! I prefer no tape as I can use as many squares as I need and make different shapes and use different types, I also try to put based terrain on the seams to hide them. To be honest with unlimited space and money you're absolutely right, fixed tables are the best cause they're the most immersive and look the best but you're sacrificing storage and variety if you want to use more than one type of terrain.
Going for the old mat and storage box for mine, while handy to store I really just don't like the gaps of the modular tiles and I haven't the space for a fixed table.
Not all terrain is for "wargaming"...us roleplayers need extreme modularity (with smaller area requirements) because the environment is continually changing. The "grid" problem is lessened using clips or magnets holding the tiles together. For a while I was interested in Hex systems but I found that the hex grid was more intrusive on the eye than straight lines. Most wargaming systems use 1ftx1ft (eg Pedion) but I'm finding smaller sizes work better for my needs (eg Modellbau) as it increases flexibility considerably (I think flocked & textured 3D printed terrain is the future of this).
What good idea might be, would be hiring a gaming table that way you could change to a different table like every month.
My current setup is a 3 x 3 collapsible table and a collection of gaming mats, with terrain pieces based to match them. I think the perfect setup for me would include a huge room ( that I do not have ) with a permanent huge setup, of a fantasy town/village and surrounding area. I am also not a fan of the modular setups as I can’t keep my eyes off the grid of cracks between the boards.
I will be interested to see your upcoming vids on the smaller scale stuff, it’s something I’ve never really looked into, but would like to see more of.
Yout tiles are not modular enough.
Why do you have forest tile instead of making magnetic trees that can attach to any tile that have metal mesh inside of it?
I've got a couple of collapsible wallpaper pasting tables. They're wargaming sized, and you can fold them up and store them away in the cupboard under the stairs or in the loft, etc. Then, canvas rolls covered in flocking, sand, grout, etc. cut to the size of the table, for different terrain types, and all I need now is a box of trees, bits of ruined building, and things that could work on any terrain, so as baseless as I can make it.
I'm on very limited space, so a couple of storage boxes of random table decoration, rolls of canvas terrain, and a wallpaper paste table should do me fine I reckon.
Cityfight. Urban areas are built into blocks typically, further more most buildings are four (five if we include the roof) pieces that can often be magnetized and lain flat in a box. Hills should not end in a corner, leaving a gash or 'gap' which forces you to put it on the edge of the board. Hills should end in the center or close to the edge of the tile, that way it can be put anywhere on the board, creating a vantage point to fight over or around.
Rivers can be poured into a 'T' shape, where the stick of the T fits inline with the cracks of the tiles
Death from Above Wargaming channel show that they put hills under their mat.
I sure they are baseless terrain you can get or make. For tree I may just put some stump down and say they are tree. The top part does not block your sight of the units.
I use 2'x4' sections of MDF with 1" foam on top. I prefer semi-realistic, to me its a mix of flat, trenches, and hilly areas. The miniatures can still move about the board but the board looks visually fun to play on. I built a table to store additional 2x4 ft section under both sides, and it works great! I can store 8 sections with an additional 4 on the top playing surface.
Luke, I’m not a war gamer, just a diorama builder. Watching this video, it came to mind to use a wall or perhaps the ceiling to hang larger boards of different sizes and configurations for storage. Perhaps a movable river or the like could be placed on the seams to conceal them as there would be fewer seams on larger boards. As you said, there is always a compromise with every setup unless you have a house with a big basement or a giant room dedicated to wargaming as all the model railroaders seem to have. By the way, my diorama materials I ordered have arrived and they look great. I haven’t had the time recently to use them as I’ve been on holiday and am stingy with my indoor time when the weather is nice. But that won’t last and I’ll send you my build picts when I finally get to it. Keep doing what you’re doing and soon you’ll be buying a giant house and room won’t be an issue. Again as you always say, love, love, love! All the best from the good old USA!
I’m building myself a modular board with tablescape tiles but I would love to have a fixed board.
have you ever tried the old fashioned sand table ? I played on one in a club back in the 80's and loved it :)
For 6mm and 10mm alternative to flock you could try bicarbonate of soda, that stuff is really fine
Storage vs realism...it's the constant battle. I like fixed boards too, but we play weekly, so that's not really an option. I use a mat for urban games, and that looks good with buildings. My next project is to build a series of 2ft by 3ft sections, complete with minor undulations and other more natural features. I'll help break up the grid look by putting terrain pieces that are matched to the boards right on top of the board joints. I'm tempted to experiment with painting the vertical edges of the boards with an off white / light cream to try to reduce the black grid lines. I'll store the boards vertically in a wardrobe.
I was very impressed by a table at warlord games open day. (I watched a vid)
Teddy bear fur shaved to different levels, I loved the gravel road the guy did by shaving the fur to "skin" and texturing it.
You can even put padding.8 under the fur to make hills.
I have a green baize mat 6x4 for woodland or similar on which i use my own 100mm hex tiles to add in the detailed terrain. I use made features to place also, rocks, buildings walls etc. For underground I have 100mm square plates that link together with wooden tongues to hold things together, some as corners and others with different floor textures. For rocky grounds I use mats and the above.
Geek Gaming: London, Paris, New York, Wakefield.
I for one like the sound of this...
I get that modular can be a pain, but scale75 paints come in dropper bottles which is useful.
One solution for "Gaming Mats" is by building your own, textured Gaming Mat. I know two different ways to build them.
No. 1 is the cheapest way with a fibre-mat (the ones you use to cover the ground when you painting walls). Take care you have a mat with a foil on one side, except you like to paint your workingplace as well... ;)
All you need beside the mat is PVA-Glue, some colours and, if you like, for more structure a little bit of sand or earth. Oh... and a glove.
You place the mat with the fibre-side up, then you splash some colours on top of it in different places. In each "Colour-Spot" you put an little amount of PVA and a little bit of sand.
Then you you let your inner child squish and scrawl the paints into the fibres, mixing them together. After that you could add some static grass ore something else.
After the colours are dry you could easily cut the mat on the right size.
No. 2 costs more money, but you could get better and realistic results.
All you need here is a canvas on a frame, acryl from the craft store, Colours and some sand, earth, rubble etc.
You mix up the acryl with the colours you like and some "Texturing"-Material.
The scrawl the thick mixture on top of the canvas and add rubble, static grass and other materials into it.
After one day you could add some more static grass and tufts and cut the canvas from the frame.
Its a lot heavier then the fibre-mat, but you could also "sculpt" some streets and small rivers in it, if you like...
Maybe you could try one or both of this methods... Surely you could find some more Informations in different forums.
I got both from a german forum about historical wargaming...
Greetings,
Johannes
I personally have 6 2x4 boards that I can switch out( I have a 6x4 table) I have the hills and roads modelled in them. It looks really nice but sometimes I wonder if I should have juist Made 3 2x4 flat boards with modular terrain pieces like roads and Hills. I Guess it is human to always want the things you do not have:) (i play historical 28mm wargames btw so have loads of buildings, ruins, trees en fences to store aswell)
Have you thought about trying record shelves? Lets say you stored the tiles sideways+vertical... if you have 1cm fins from front to back on the shelves, you could angle them slightly = kind of like those old shitty cd shelves. Supposing your tiles were an average of 3" tall, 1 8' wide wall with the 12" deep shelves would store 384 tiles max. So, at least a handful of table tops. You could always just do two rows up against the ceiling in that room = 8' wide -> 96 tiles.
For me, the only problem with modular terrain is the visible seam. Fix that (and I'm sure a creative soul like you can crack that one), and it's great. Add additional terrain on top (buildings, trees, hills, etc) and you have a gaming surface with changing terrain features, rivers, etc that can be different every time - especially if you have modular tiles that can blend between urban, grass, desert, or whatever. Give me enough tiles to make a 6x4 modular desert, grass or urban board then a couple of blending tiles to join grass-desert, desert-urban, grass-coastal etc, and you've got endless combinations and possibilities. I'd love that.
If your a wargamer and you need a bigger set up than say 10mm scale then to me it's obvious the solution is set up a club dedicated to yourself and whoever your mates are of a similar disposition and that way fixed tables can be utilised to their full potential. But like me I have a small bedroom that has been modified so the bed is my gaming area and terrain lies on shelves as honestly its too big to store as it's meant to be. Micro-mini Wargaming is the answer but who is really in to that ? Cheers Luke.
My preferred modular terrain is Secret Weapon's kickstarter from a few years ago. 1ft x 1ft tiles that lock together at the corners. Each tile is about 1 inch tall. I have 8x4ft worth of tiles with flats, hills and a river. They did about 6 different themes that can fit together too if you could afford more than one set.
I'm lucky. Living on my tod, my lounge is my games room. Permanent 6' x 4', which can expand to 8' x 6', or 12' x 4'. just two 6' x 4' chipboard sheets, on top of 24= curver storage boxes. Most of the scenery lives under the board, and I can have the tables 4 boxes high for gaming, or three boxes high covered in a tarp to use as a workbench making more scenery.
For me a collapsible terrain etc for a building it folds flat by taking out the supporting structure (usually a floor or a bamboo skewer hidding inside the cardboard sheets) which allows you to fold them flat, the floor taken out acts in a similar manner to a key way in say a flywheel to take a flywheel of u have to take out the key way (keyway is basically a square peg in a round hole). you can make them yourselves out of cardboard for the base structure then add thin polystyrene sheeting for outside for detail which can be carved n painted.