you can't pronounce my last name there may be a possibility Anders was forcibly possessed. There’s a small bit that doesn’t make sense, if you import from DAOA (dragon age origins awakening) he says the wardens forced him to give away his cat, however, the warden commander him/herself gives the cat to Anders. Note, some people decide to be asses and taunt him with it, but usually, the warden commander gives him the cat. Why would s/he give him the cat, only to take him away after the end game? I suspect Justice brainwashed into getting rid of the cat (which could say a sad fate for the dear) At any rate, don’t mistake Justice for changing in Anders. If you play Awakening, you see he’s the same ass he props himself to be in DA2. Anders DA2 is essentially Justice in an Anders body suit.
@@Norinia Correction. You give Anders his cat but the Warden commander leaves Amaranthine after the mess with the architect is over. It's likely the next commander forced Anders to give away his cat.
But he didn't want those MARKS. It was payment. Really he wanted to help his family. I'm sure Danarius didn't even explain all about the marks. About pain, abilities and such things
Anders and Fenris your typical Cat and Dog Fight. Since Fenris name is of a wolf from lore and Anders is a Cat person. There should be a sitcom with these two lol
The thing is... I always thought that the fact Anders and Fenris hate each other so much comes more from circumstance, than actual, personal hatred. Both of them appreciate freedom, and they both have a really strong sense of justice. Both of them are really passionate about their opinions, if they agree on something for once, they are quite supportive (for example, if blood magic is the topic). The big problem is that neither of them actually tries to understand the other, they only see that one of them is a mage, and the other one hates mages. I felt that if they had the strength or the motivation to work through these prejudices, they could have been really good friends.
But for sure from Anders hate goes to the person. Anders is okey with giving fenris into slavery (which is fck up if you think that he had spirit of justice in his head and is ok with slavery)
I had the two of them in my party a lot in my first playthrough, so I had to deal with a lot of this. And every time I was just like, "Kids, stop fighting, or I'm turning the car around."
Friendly romance with Fenris, 100% friendship with everyone else; my reaction to the banter was pretty much, "Please like each other. Come on guys, do it for me. Fenris, dude, give him a break. Anders, that was barely confrontational, stop getting so offended. Guys. GUYS. GUUUUUYS. WHY WON'T YOU STOP FIGHTING?"
You know, it's actually quite interesting and tragically ironic that Anders, while a skilled mage and generally no fool, bases all of his knowledge of the fade and spirits on Circle and Chantry logic. You can tell from how he talks to Merrill about the fade and spirits. Another ironic point is that Merrill, while somewhat naive about the ways of the world, is ultimately the one who truly understands how spirits function. Damn this game is underrated.
We've seen Anders and classical understanding of spirits is true. Merril too naive. It was showed in her quest. We've seen only 2 or 3 good spirits (the Oak and Woolsley, maybe Anders' cat, he's magical) in the game and 2 spirits of kind feelings (if i remember correctly) and so many dangerous spirits. There was a lot of mad spirits. Even Cole and Justice were dangerous. Merril played with fire. And her friends warned her many times
@@GoodLuck-l8iMerrill said "there are no good spirits, all of them are dangerous". Based on info from DAI MERRILL IS RIGHT. Anders believes there are good and hatmless spirits and evil harmfull demons, as it's Chantry doctrine. Mertill believes there are spirits, who all have the potential to be dangerous. Merrill dealt with spirits with that in mind, she wadn't naive. She played with fire knowing the risks. People around her just couldn't accept that she knee what she was doing and interfered at every tourn.
Isabela: "Oh, would you two get over yourselves. You're like two dogs around a bitch in heat." Fenris: "We were talking about Hawke, not you." Fenris went there! XD
Both ordinary mortals, driven to the point of desperation through pain and suffering, each one suffered greatly, being taken from both of their families, being betrayed, and in the end it shaped them, neither of them are innocent, and both are hypocrites and killers in their own way, I will point out that by death count, Anders did the most damage, but Fenris was willing to kill without hesitation his own sister without realizing she was just as much a victim as he was. Each decision has repercussions, and each one is difficult in its' own way, Kill millions or kill a desperate family member see which one is easier, the answer is neither. They both show that while we all have differences, we are more alike than we like to admit. I think if they could look past their differences, they could be friends, so I'll end this with a quote from Merrill, "Fear makes Men more dangerous than Magic ever could"
honestly, when Fenris brought up Hawke's mother, I was about ready to punch him. It's such a bullshit thing to say, especially since it brings up a very painful event, especially since Hawke is RIGHT THERE
Isabella is gold XD " Oh would you two get over yourself!... i did him too" XD yeah because everyone want's a pice of hawk, it's the only real trophy to wave around XD
@No Lümpen He literally says it after he brings up Karl’s death in Act 1. Both say really shitty and insensitive things. Hate how Fenris fans act like he’s super innocent
MagentaCrystal59, It's been a while since I saw D. Grey Man, but I recall that those two weren't as bad as Fenris and Anders. I see Fenris and Anders more as Zero and Kaname from Vampire Knight, because even though Allen a Kanda would bicker at times, I still saw them as friends, while Zero and Kaname hated each other, and were in love with the same girl. I think Fenris would be Zero and Anders would be Kaname. That's just me though.
I adored this after playing mass effect 2 ME2 had amazing characters but after you recruit them they stay sequestered in their part of the ship and NEVER talk to each other outside of a few squabbles Here? Say what you will but you GET everyone's relationship to everyone else
I agree, unfortunately, their characters are too stereotypical, exaggerated and unrealistic. Their relationship would be more interesting If they could be friends, because there were really big similarities between them. Like, they both were enslaved, their stories are a mirror image.. Anders and Fenris have known each other for many years, and probably saved each other's lives many times, like, it's unrealistic they hated each other for so long. I was disappointed that my Hawke couldn't change the relationship between companions.
I'm going to just add here that he acknowledges in game that his hatred is a "dark growth" and "poison that [he] can't stop swallowing". He's well aware that he's harsh to mages, but in all fairness, he has every reason to be. Mages weren't exactly wonderful to him, and look at what Anders did at the end of the game. He just reinforced Fenris' prejudice. It's hard to let go of something that was with you your entire life as fact, and for Fenris, that fact was, "Mages will hurt those around them"
Every time I bring them both with me at the same time and they start to argue, I'm sorry, but I want to slap both of them in their heads and be like SHUT UP!! But that would be a bad idea cause Justice would like come out and then Fenris would have his scars glowing and yeah i'm just going to go in my corner now and shut up.......
I couldn’t help but smile with that last line when I heard it in my latest play though. Like, even after leaving Hawke, Fenris still loves him. But he does it from a distance.
You're right! That's also very true. It depends on which gender you're playing as. Fenris, for one, when I romanced him, also said it was "always a pleasure talking to a beautiful woman". Hawke-sexual is pretty accurate LOL!
There's no way varric didn't exaggerate these two in the retelling that frames this entire story. Otherwise why wouldn't they try to just kill each other?
"Fenris: Be good to him. Break his heart, and I will kill you." imagine fenris being the one to kill anders after the chantry explosion if you decide to kill anders
Anders is such a selfish, manipulative hypocrite! He is a hypocrite towards Merrill, who knew better than to merge with a spirit and she has never been in a circle. He is a insesitive a** about Aveline's dead husband, asking if he was a dirty as other templars and if he had asked her to act out naughty roleplay scenes. He asks Fenris why Danarius never killed him and why he never killed himself, even basically saying he was nothing more than an animal. He even insults Bethany if she became a circle mage. He tricks someone who was either a really good friend or the best thing that ever happened to him to help him get what he needed to blow up the chantry, killing innocent people and starting a war no one would win. Knowing this, tell me how Anders is any better than Fenris? I'm not holding Fenris up as perfect, he has his flaws as well. But at least you can help Fenris change and be a better person. Anders had gone too far and is completely insane in the end, and I never shed a tear as I killed him. I sided with the mages to save the innocent who were condemed to death because of Anders and convinced Fenris to help.
And one more thing. Those who hate Fenris but love Anders need to remember this. Fenris may be a broody elf with extreme anger issues and does leave Hawke for a while, but at least he never betrayed or used Hawke, unlike Anders. Fenris had never used Hawke or asked for more than Hawke was willing to give. Anders betrayed Hawke and abused Hawke's trust by tricking Hawke into helping him blow up the chantry.
Wow, and this is why Fenris fans are more insufferable than Anders fans. You all never want to acknowledge his flaws, even when he’s being a dick for no reason.
Anders... ALWAYS. Best romance and the sweetest man. If there was some way for my Hawke to make sure his love was always happy I know he'd go to the ends of the earth to achieve it. Anders deserves happiness, freedom and Hawke. Not saying Fenris doesn't... but I think Anders/Hawke fit together better imo and rp.
He started a war that, by the time of inquisition, has killed and ruined the lives of the mages he supposedly valued, he doesn't deserve happiness, he deserved the death my Hawke gave him. I'm praying that he canonically dies for what he did
kallonist He single handedly started the war with one little event in Kirkwall... riiiight. So Fiona did nothing, the mages voting to separate did nothing? Literally only Anders started an entire war - no mages were fighting in a resistance by that point anyways, no other mages wanted to separate? Yeah. So would you say those who fought in the French Revolution(s) and died were pointless deaths. That people who are inspired to fight by those around them are just victims of circumstance. To say that no other mage was standing behind Anders is ridiculous. Wars NEED to be fought. The American Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the French Revolutions - when a group is being oppressed they have every right to step up and fight for their rights... to say that Anders forced them would to be ignoring concrete historical evidence of other revolutions that have taken place. The Templars are on the wrong side of history - they pushed the mages to war and they deserved the revolution that followed them. More mages than you think wanted that war, but the few that didn't have loud voices.
So allahu ackbaring a chantry full of innocents was the best way to do it? Yeah no, he's a terrible person and character and I'm very glad you were given the option to kill hi.
He's a well done character, strong enough to sympathise with. Should he be fun when he suffered? Should he be happy when he's so lonely? From Fenris's point of view, how would you feel? I really doubt you'd be sunshine and rainbows. Hate is instinct, right and wrong are just labels we apply to things based on how strongly we agree or disagree with the choices made.
I believe the word you're looking for is "magisters", not mages. Fenris says in the freaking clip that other, weaker mages are enslaved by magisters, as well. He has no good reason to hate ALL mages, since mages were slaves right alongside him.
Tea And Cookies He’s been traumatized, I don’t think he’s really in the headspace to start compartmentalizing his trauma and the distinctions between mages. Especially when anders is consistently antagonistic and Merrill actively makes poor decisions that get people killed if you help her.
@@shawnapferd9510 and also the FIRST place Fenris ran to in order to escape that life happens to be blood mage capital of thedas. Seriously I was hoping Anders or bethany/Carver would go "I swear, hand to the maker, there weren't this many blood mages back home. What is it with this place, the water???"
And because I couldn't fit this bit into my last message: "who are exploiting your support to sell terrible games"; I don't play this game for the romance, though it does make a nice addition to the storyline and because I simply enjoy romantic things, but I play this game because I like the characters, the combat, the story, etc. It's not a terrible game to me, and the romance just makes it better. EA/Bioware isn't exploiting me for liking a game!
I really hate the Chantry, and I especially hate how mages are treated. Anyone can be dangerous, mage or not. Anders and Fenris both have good points to take into consideration, but I'll always side with the mages. People fear what they don't understand. Buuuut Hawke/Fenris 24/7 for sure. Sorry Anders.
@Loven Tidus I seem to recall that mages rebelled because they were hurt by templars. No one rebels because they're treated good. You can try to justify that (like Wynne does), completely ignore that most of the circles harm the mages (like Vivienne does) or fight against it. So far the games showed us apostates fare better than circle mages.
Anders, Fenris, and Isabela are the best party combo just from all those comments at the end haha! I call them “the Ex squad” because they all either did Hawke/Isabela at some point and they can’t go 5 minutes without making it awkward 😂
This bickering would annoy me to no end. I've never been very comfortable amongst people with extreme set of beliefs. It reminds me of the time I got cornered by a Baptist who demanded to know whether Jesus was my lord and savior. So uncomfortable!
Fenris, you have got to be the most emo person in rpg history. Final Fantasy gives you no choice but to take them, but at least they drop it after a certain point. He is the only peron I straight up told he can't join the party.
Tbh, I think it was the bad writing, I blame game developers for bad character development (or not character development at all). Look, Hawke didn't influence Anders and Fenris views throughout the game. There was nothing (s)he could do to change their view of the world and/or each other. What we did during the game didn't make them better people. This is very disappointing. Only the final dialogue between Hawke and Anders may a bit different (depending on whether we have friendship or rivalry with him) but that's all. They were both still the same hateful and obsessive men, even if Hawke had romance with one of them. I was disappointed that my Hawke couldn't change the relationship between companions. Like you said, Anders and Fenris have known each other for many years. They probably saved each other's lives many times, like, it's unrealistic they hated each other for so long. Their relationship would be more interesting If they could be friends, because there were really big similarities between them. Like, they both were enslaved, their stories are a mirror image. . In a normal life (or in a game where the creators would have more time to develop their characters), such people would develop a thread of understanding, or at least somehow respect each other. If they weren't friends, they would at least be frenemies. Unfortunately, their characters are too stereotypical, exaggerated and unrealistic. I like this game, I like these two characters, but sometimes their characters were so stereotypical and caricatured it hurt. Of course, they were both hypocrites and not very good people as a result. I found their behavior unrealistic given their long acquaintance and attachment with Hawke. These characters had a lot of potential, but they were made walking stereotypes. I don't know whether to blame it for bad / lazy writing or the fact DA II developers didn't actually finish the game because deadline was too short. .
I would say the writing is surprisingly decent, considering they had under a year to make the whole game. But honestly, I disagree that keeping them enemies is "bad writing" or "unrealistic." I once worked in a job with a coworker, and we _hated_ each other. We would ignore each other at best, and fight at worst. And that went on for almost three years. We never became friends or even "frenemies," and we never respected each other, even though we had coworkers who were mutual friends. And I never, ever want to see her again. It was a relief when I left. Sometimes, people are just on completely different wavelengths, and you simply can't get them to tolerate each others' presence. Choosing all the "correct" dialogue boxes and having a few party banters to get everyone to hold hands and sing "kumbayah" together as BFFs seems way less realistic, imho. BUT I do agree that over the course of "several years" in the game the characters _themselves_ should have changed somewhat. Like the "hardening" mechanic in Origins, some characters should have changed their views, like Fenris should have been able to soften or double-down on his view of mages, etc. or you should have been able to sway Anders to _not_ become a terrorist somehow.
@@GoddoDoggoThe problem is they aren't co workers, they are essentially part of the same friend groupe. If under this amount of time they couldn't get to a point when they are at lesst civil with each other, under irl circumstances they just wouldn't go togeather annywhere. Like in Baldurs Gate (wich is fun considering thoes games are the spiritual ancestors of DA) you have companions you can't have at the same time because they just don't get along. I understand that it would be uncomfortable for gameplay here, but from a story point of view, they should have either learn to not tear each other's throat out non stop, or refuse to go on missions togeather.
Whoa whoa whoa. No need to be hostile, and I myself apologize if I came off as attacking you! Well, I identify as a lesbian woman, first of all, so it's actually sort of nice to know that I can be a female Hawke and still romance someone like Merrill or Isabela. It's not blind idealism to want equality and to receive it from games. If you don't want the characters to be bisexual and "cheapen" your heterosexuality, then simply don't flirt with the characters of your same sex!
Fenris is the eternal best boii. I wish I could pawn off Anders to Danarius in Fenris' stead so that he can see that not only mages have it hard in life. It's true that the circles can be fucked up, but Anders' "solutions" are horrific and made things exponentially worse for everyone. And Fenris, despite his faults and prejudices, will hear Hawke out if they want to defend the mages. He's willing to talk it out and compromise, because that's what sensible adults and lovers do. No matter WHAT you say or do Anders is always 'deeeeeugh blow up da church. this is fine' Fuck Anders.
Anders destroyed a false compromise that was maintaing a status quo of slavery and torture. The revered mother just sat and watched as Meredith ruled the city, abusing the mages. If you stand aside when faced with oppressor and victim, you favor the oppressor and stand with them. Anders forced a confrontation long overdue because the standstill was just getting worse and worse.
Morrigan fenris is a black dude in disguise who cried about racism when there is none. I killed him straight when he sided with templars. Died like he lived. Whining like a tumblr girl
099Nitro Considering his upbringing around mages, the fact that he’s still continuously being chased by them, his only living family member betraying him because of magic, AND Ander’s blowing up the Chantry, how the hell is he not justified in his anger towards them when he’s continuously reminded of how awful they are? Granted I’m often pro mage but completely sympathize with what Fenris has gone through.
Aaaaand one more because I can't shut up: I apologize for assuming you're heterosexual in my first message! I don't know if that's the case, so my mistake for simply jumping to conclusions!
I couldn't help but wait for Fenris even though he is a total dick about mages, he gets better. Besides, I can't stand characters like Anders that pour their hearts out and are all "I love you" this "I love you" that all the damn time.
Fenris: "No Magister would turn down an advantage." (Referring to the use of blood magic) Dorian: Am I a joke to you? To be fair, Dorian isn't a Magister at this point in time, but the point stands.
I had Anders in my party because of sentiment from DAO, but after first playing i cant feel about him right, Justice changed him too much. I wanna try with Fenris but im kinda afraid of him Emoisness:D
Actually it really doesn't cheapen sexuality. Not everyone in the world is bisexual, I'll give you that, but we're entering a new era where people are starting to be okay with others being open about their sexuality. Not everyone is heterosexual either, after all. The characters being bisexual are opportunities for LGBT people and everyone in between to have representation. A lesbian woman can be a lesbian Hawke with Merrill, for instance, just as a gay man can be with Fenris, and etc. Equality!
![Dragon Age 2: Party Banter: Aveline & Isabela [complete]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3siofVxzsbY/mqdefault.jpg)
![Dragon Age 2: Party Banter: Aveline & Isabela [complete]](/img/tr.png)
![Dragon Age 2: Party Banter: Isabela & Varric [complete]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GAeICsZQqDc/mqdefault.jpg)
Despite the constant bickering.. they're actually are very similar to each other. They both glow when they're mad
In that way sure. But Anders chose to take the spirit in, Fenris's markings were forced upon him.
@@lyriumstoneladydelirium5314 (SPOILER) Have you played the part when he meets a special NPC that tells him he wanted those markings ?
you can't pronounce my last name there may be a possibility Anders was forcibly possessed. There’s a small bit that doesn’t make sense, if you import from DAOA (dragon age origins awakening) he says the wardens forced him to give away his cat, however, the warden commander him/herself gives the cat to Anders. Note, some people decide to be asses and taunt him with it, but usually, the warden commander gives him the cat.
Why would s/he give him the cat, only to take him away after the end game? I suspect Justice brainwashed into getting rid of the cat (which could say a sad fate for the dear)
At any rate, don’t mistake Justice for changing in Anders. If you play Awakening, you see he’s the same ass he props himself to be in DA2. Anders DA2 is essentially Justice in an Anders body suit.
@@Norinia
Correction. You give Anders his cat but the Warden commander leaves Amaranthine after the mess with the architect is over. It's likely the next commander forced Anders to give away his cat.
But he didn't want those MARKS. It was payment. Really he wanted to help his family. I'm sure Danarius didn't even explain all about the marks. About pain, abilities and such things
Anders and Fenris your typical Cat and Dog Fight. Since Fenris name is of a wolf from lore and Anders is a Cat person. There should be a sitcom with these two lol
"They let you in. Can't be that much better." Damn. Fenris went there.
Kerri na Basaria Yeah was thinking oh snap.
I love how Anders doesn't snipe back. I can see him just going "...okay point to you"
The thing is... I always thought that the fact Anders and Fenris hate each other so much comes more from circumstance, than actual, personal hatred. Both of them appreciate freedom, and they both have a really strong sense of justice. Both of them are really passionate about their opinions, if they agree on something for once, they are quite supportive (for example, if blood magic is the topic). The big problem is that neither of them actually tries to understand the other, they only see that one of them is a mage, and the other one hates mages. I felt that if they had the strength or the motivation to work through these prejudices, they could have been really good friends.
But for sure from Anders hate goes to the person. Anders is okey with giving fenris into slavery (which is fck up if you think that he had spirit of justice in his head and is ok with slavery)
I had the two of them in my party a lot in my first playthrough, so I had to deal with a lot of this. And every time I was just like, "Kids, stop fighting, or I'm turning the car around."
"break his/her heart or I'll kill you."
Fenris, I fucking love you.
with his fist. ;)
im a girl bruh
Pearl Mito oooooh good for you........ ..... ....
wut
Pearl Mito I am stunned most DA fangirls are not girls a all
Friendly romance with Fenris, 100% friendship with everyone else; my reaction to the banter was pretty much, "Please like each other. Come on guys, do it for me. Fenris, dude, give him a break. Anders, that was barely confrontational, stop getting so offended. Guys. GUYS. GUUUUUYS. WHY WON'T YOU STOP FIGHTING?"
You know, it's actually quite interesting and tragically ironic that Anders, while a skilled mage and generally no fool, bases all of his knowledge of the fade and spirits on Circle and Chantry logic. You can tell from how he talks to Merrill about the fade and spirits.
Another ironic point is that Merrill, while somewhat naive about the ways of the world, is ultimately the one who truly understands how spirits function.
Damn this game is underrated.
I know, for someone that despises the circle he genuinely believes them
Merrill’s biggest issue was assuming she would be only victim
We've seen Anders and classical understanding of spirits is true. Merril too naive. It was showed in her quest. We've seen only 2 or 3 good spirits (the Oak and Woolsley, maybe Anders' cat, he's magical) in the game and 2 spirits of kind feelings (if i remember correctly) and so many dangerous spirits. There was a lot of mad spirits. Even Cole and Justice were dangerous. Merril played with fire. And her friends warned her many times
@@GoodLuck-l8iMerrill said "there are no good spirits, all of them are dangerous". Based on info from DAI MERRILL IS RIGHT. Anders believes there are good and hatmless spirits and evil harmfull demons, as it's Chantry doctrine. Mertill believes there are spirits, who all have the potential to be dangerous.
Merrill dealt with spirits with that in mind, she wadn't naive. She played with fire knowing the risks. People around her just couldn't accept that she knee what she was doing and interfered at every tourn.
"Some things are worse than slavery."
"Some things are worse than death."
Isabela: "Oh, would you two get over yourselves. You're like two dogs around a bitch in heat."
Fenris: "We were talking about Hawke, not you."
Fenris went there! XD
Fenris should meet dorian
sora roxas sign here and here oh and here for the petition to let them meet in (hopefully) Dragon Age 4
Could you imagine a reunion between anders (if he survives) and Fenris in Da4
Ahh I would have a good time beating the blue fuck out of Dorian when I'm Fenris.
Davante Smith: yeah Fenris would be so surprised meeting a good Tevinter XD
@Alex Arand wonder of he would try and hurt Dorian if Bull was around. And if Bull Romances Dorian.
Both ordinary mortals, driven to the point of desperation through pain and suffering, each one suffered greatly, being taken from both of their families, being betrayed, and in the end it shaped them, neither of them are innocent, and both are hypocrites and killers in their own way, I will point out that by death count, Anders did the most damage, but Fenris was willing to kill without hesitation his own sister without realizing she was just as much a victim as he was. Each decision has repercussions, and each one is difficult in its' own way, Kill millions or kill a desperate family member see which one is easier, the answer is neither.
They both show that while we all have differences, we are more alike than we like to admit. I think if they could look past their differences, they could be friends, so I'll end this with a quote from Merrill, "Fear makes Men more dangerous than Magic ever could"
"You're like two dogs around a bitch in heat."
"We were talking about Hawke, not you."
I believe that's what's referred to as a "burn", Isabella.
"Leaving her was the hardest thing I've ever done."
"It was the dumbest thing you've ever done. But I'm sure you're used to it."
They don't even seem to hate each other. they just bicker
Fenris's laugh is so cute
"good thing they were drunk" xD
I love fenris for this ^^
honestly, when Fenris brought up Hawke's mother, I was about ready to punch him. It's such a bullshit thing to say, especially since it brings up a very painful event, especially since Hawke is RIGHT THERE
Isabella is gold XD
" Oh would you two get over yourself!... i did him too" XD yeah because everyone want's a pice of hawk, it's the only real trophy to wave around XD
Hawke: Andrasteh, pls take me
hawke: someone pls save me from this hell i want off this derailed discourse train
THE LAST ONE MAKES ME WANNA DIE IEHFDJVFJDGBJSBF FENRIS IS SO LOVELY
I remember role-playing as absolutely furious with Fenris for weaponising "my" mother's death just to win a petty squabble with Anders
Running around with these two is like being mother to two fighting kids.
summary:
Anders: im not racist but-
Fenris: stop
Famtomerc how?
Fenris: some people deserve slavery-
Anders: Stop
@No Lümpen He literally says it after he brings up Karl’s death in Act 1. Both say really shitty and insensitive things. Hate how Fenris fans act like he’s super innocent
Sometimes they remind me of Solas and Bull.
I cant help but think of Fenris as Kanda and Anders as Allen sometimes.
MagentaCrystal59, It's been a while since I saw D. Grey Man, but I recall that those two weren't as bad as Fenris and Anders. I see Fenris and Anders more as Zero and Kaname from Vampire Knight, because even though Allen a Kanda would bicker at times, I still saw them as friends, while Zero and Kaname hated each other, and were in love with the same girl. I think Fenris would be Zero and Anders would be Kaname. That's just me though.
This game... it was like EVERYONE in my group hated each other ALL THE TIME. It was really weird after Mass Effect.
Fizz Please Yep the only part that is the same between Mass Effect and DA is that they all love the main character haha
I adored this after playing mass effect 2
ME2 had amazing characters but after you recruit them they stay sequestered in their part of the ship and NEVER talk to each other outside of a few squabbles
Here? Say what you will but you GET everyone's relationship to everyone else
I love them both so much, and as funny as these are, it still hurts to hear them burn each other left and right.
They should have a sitcom.
THE GIRLS ARE FIGHTING
😂😂
No fucking chill omg
I think the writers spent too much time detailing the animosity between them, and not their similarities.
I agree, unfortunately, their characters are too stereotypical, exaggerated and unrealistic.
Their relationship would be more interesting If they could be friends, because there were really big similarities between them. Like, they both were enslaved, their stories are a mirror image..
Anders and Fenris have known each other for many years, and probably saved each other's lives many times, like, it's unrealistic they hated each other for so long. I was disappointed that my Hawke couldn't change the relationship between companions.
Bahahahaha OMG poor Isabela! "We were talking about Hawke not you." Fenris FTW
Anders loosing his ser-pounce-alot changed him :(
I'm going to just add here that he acknowledges in game that his hatred is a "dark growth" and "poison that [he] can't stop swallowing". He's well aware that he's harsh to mages, but in all fairness, he has every reason to be. Mages weren't exactly wonderful to him, and look at what Anders did at the end of the game. He just reinforced Fenris' prejudice. It's hard to let go of something that was with you your entire life as fact, and for Fenris, that fact was, "Mages will hurt those around them"
Anders ... stays there without making any move. Fenris ... just making the hell of moves all the time :D Love those two guys!
THE SASS ON THEM
Every time I bring them both with me at the same time and they start to argue, I'm sorry, but I want to slap both of them in their heads and be like SHUT UP!! But that would be a bad idea cause Justice would like come out and then Fenris would have his scars glowing and yeah i'm just going to go in my corner now and shut up.......
Anyone here who likes Anders? I just see Fenris comments :/
They are my babies.
I love them both dearly.
I hate him
I love Anders, although I also like Fenris. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@NihilVacant that's so good to heart :) I mostly see only people who like one and hate the other :(
I couldn’t help but smile with that last line when I heard it in my latest play though. Like, even after leaving Hawke, Fenris still loves him. But he does it from a distance.
You're right! That's also very true. It depends on which gender you're playing as. Fenris, for one, when I romanced him, also said it was "always a pleasure talking to a beautiful woman". Hawke-sexual is pretty accurate LOL!
There's no way varric didn't exaggerate these two in the retelling that frames this entire story. Otherwise why wouldn't they try to just kill each other?
Ladies and gentlemen, prepare to watch fur fly.Seriously, can these two be within ten feet of each other and NOT fight?
I just now noticed that Fenris was saying that Isabela was a bitch. how did I not notice this at first.
dear Anders-lovers who come here and are disappointed with the amount of hateful comments about him: you’re not alone, and Anders is precious.
Tbh, there actually many Anders fans in the DAII fandom
"Fenris: Be good to him. Break his heart, and I will kill you."
imagine fenris being the one to kill anders after the chantry explosion if you decide to kill anders
fenris wins hands down for me
Lol, "I did him too". :D
Is it weird that I’m generally pro-mages’ rights but Fenris is my second favorite dragon age 2 character?
Anders is such a selfish, manipulative hypocrite! He is a hypocrite towards Merrill, who knew better than to merge with a spirit and she has never been in a circle. He is a insesitive a** about Aveline's dead husband, asking if he was a dirty as other templars and if he had asked her to act out naughty roleplay scenes. He asks Fenris why Danarius never killed him and why he never killed himself, even basically saying he was nothing more than an animal. He even insults Bethany if she became a circle mage. He tricks someone who was either a really good friend or the best thing that ever happened to him to help him get what he needed to blow up the chantry, killing innocent people and starting a war no one would win. Knowing this, tell me how Anders is any better than Fenris? I'm not holding Fenris up as perfect, he has his flaws as well. But at least you can help Fenris change and be a better person. Anders had gone too far and is completely insane in the end, and I never shed a tear as I killed him. I sided with the mages to save the innocent who were condemed to death because of Anders and convinced Fenris to help.
And one more thing. Those who hate Fenris but love Anders need to remember this. Fenris may be a broody elf with extreme anger issues and does leave Hawke for a while, but at least he never betrayed or used Hawke, unlike Anders. Fenris had never used Hawke or asked for more than Hawke was willing to give. Anders betrayed Hawke and abused Hawke's trust by tricking Hawke into helping him blow up the chantry.
Wow, and this is why Fenris fans are more insufferable than Anders fans. You all never want to acknowledge his flaws, even when he’s being a dick for no reason.
I totally agree with you
Anders... ALWAYS. Best romance and the sweetest man. If there was some way for my Hawke to make sure his love was always happy I know he'd go to the ends of the earth to achieve it. Anders deserves happiness, freedom and Hawke.
Not saying Fenris doesn't... but I think Anders/Hawke fit together better imo and rp.
Anders would choose Justice over Hawke any day of the week.
I stabbed him and I'll never regret doing it
He started a war that, by the time of inquisition, has killed and ruined the lives of the mages he supposedly valued, he doesn't deserve happiness, he deserved the death my Hawke gave him. I'm praying that he canonically dies for what he did
kallonist He single handedly started the war with one little event in Kirkwall... riiiight. So Fiona did nothing, the mages voting to separate did nothing? Literally only Anders started an entire war - no mages were fighting in a resistance by that point anyways, no other mages wanted to separate? Yeah.
So would you say those who fought in the French Revolution(s) and died were pointless deaths. That people who are inspired to fight by those around them are just victims of circumstance. To say that no other mage was standing behind Anders is ridiculous. Wars NEED to be fought. The American Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the French Revolutions - when a group is being oppressed they have every right to step up and fight for their rights... to say that Anders forced them would to be ignoring concrete historical evidence of other revolutions that have taken place. The Templars are on the wrong side of history - they pushed the mages to war and they deserved the revolution that followed them.
More mages than you think wanted that war, but the few that didn't have loud voices.
So allahu ackbaring a chantry full of innocents was the best way to do it? Yeah no, he's a terrible person and character and I'm very glad you were given the option to kill hi.
Anders is charming? Oh sure, back in Awakening, I would have agreed with that statement, but now, I don't believe it for a second.
He's a well done character, strong enough to sympathise with. Should he be fun when he suffered? Should he be happy when he's so lonely? From Fenris's point of view, how would you feel? I really doubt you'd be sunshine and rainbows. Hate is instinct, right and wrong are just labels we apply to things based on how strongly we agree or disagree with the choices made.
I think Fenris and Shale would get along swimmingly.
Adaephon.exe him and Sten or him and Cassandra omg
You do realize it's because throughout his entire remembered life he was raped and abused and tortured by mages?
I believe the word you're looking for is "magisters", not mages. Fenris says in the freaking clip that other, weaker mages are enslaved by magisters, as well. He has no good reason to hate ALL mages, since mages were slaves right alongside him.
Tea And Cookies He’s been traumatized, I don’t think he’s really in the headspace to start compartmentalizing his trauma and the distinctions between mages. Especially when anders is consistently antagonistic and Merrill actively makes poor decisions that get people killed if you help her.
@@shawnapferd9510 and also the FIRST place Fenris ran to in order to escape that life happens to be blood mage capital of thedas. Seriously I was hoping Anders or bethany/Carver would go "I swear, hand to the maker, there weren't this many blood mages back home. What is it with this place, the water???"
And because I couldn't fit this bit into my last message: "who are exploiting your support to sell terrible games"; I don't play this game for the romance, though it does make a nice addition to the storyline and because I simply enjoy romantic things, but I play this game because I like the characters, the combat, the story, etc. It's not a terrible game to me, and the romance just makes it better. EA/Bioware isn't exploiting me for liking a game!
Dawww... "Break his heart and I'll kill you." Fenris have you looked anymore lovable?
Hawke: Don't make me come back there!
I miss Awakening Anders. He's a completely different person in DA2
he's the Jake Skywalker of Thedas
I really hate the Chantry, and I especially hate how mages are treated. Anyone can be dangerous, mage or not. Anders and Fenris both have good points to take into consideration, but I'll always side with the mages. People fear what they don't understand.
Buuuut Hawke/Fenris 24/7 for sure. Sorry Anders.
@Loven Tidus I seem to recall that mages rebelled because they were hurt by templars. No one rebels because they're treated good. You can try to justify that (like Wynne does), completely ignore that most of the circles harm the mages (like Vivienne does) or fight against it. So far the games showed us apostates fare better than circle mages.
4:15 i wish Hawke was able to just turn around and slug Fenris for that comment
Isabela's reaction: *sigh* "just fuck and get it over with, you two"
why does lowtown and the docks background always look its on fire even before the qunari invasion
I think it's something with the PC because it doesn't happen on console. It may act as like a bonfire at the Alienage/Qunari Camp
Anders, Fenris, and Isabela are the best party combo just from all those comments at the end haha! I call them “the Ex squad” because they all either did Hawke/Isabela at some point and they can’t go 5 minutes without making it awkward 😂
That last one only makes me love Fenris even more.
They need to kiss to broke the tension B
This bickering would annoy me to no end. I've never been very comfortable amongst people with extreme set of beliefs. It reminds me of the time I got cornered by a Baptist who demanded to know whether Jesus was my lord and savior. So uncomfortable!
"I'm charming"
No. Just no.
He used to be.
"Who's the pretty kitty?"
*meow*
I love when they catfight over my male Hawke, specially when Isabella accidentaly called Hawke a bitch in heat, because that's a fact XD
If the story was better implimented it would be one of the best I've ever played.\
Fenrir is damn witty
Fenris, you have got to be the most emo person in rpg history. Final Fantasy gives you no choice but to take them, but at least they drop it after a certain point. He is the only peron I straight up told he can't join the party.
"Break his heart and I will kill you"
Shjsbdksksmfjjd djdnfjfbfjfnfjfjd ndgoddamnit Fenris I love you ffs.
I'm delulu but coughs *sexual tension*
"Why don't you shput? I don't think everyone heard you" "...ABOMINATION!" *flees*
Tbh, I think it was the bad writing, I blame game developers for bad character development (or not character development at all).
Look, Hawke didn't influence Anders and Fenris views throughout the game. There was nothing (s)he could do to change their view of the world and/or each other. What we did during the game didn't make them better people. This is very disappointing.
Only the final dialogue between Hawke and Anders may a bit different (depending on whether we have friendship or rivalry with him) but that's all. They were both still the same hateful and obsessive men, even if Hawke had romance with one of them.
I was disappointed that my Hawke couldn't change the relationship between companions. Like you said, Anders and Fenris have known each other for many years. They probably saved each other's lives many times, like, it's unrealistic they hated each other for so long.
Their relationship would be more interesting If they could be friends, because there were really big similarities between them. Like, they both were enslaved, their stories are a mirror image.
.
In a normal life (or in a game where the creators would have more time to develop their characters), such people would develop a thread of understanding, or at least somehow respect each other. If they weren't friends, they would at least be frenemies.
Unfortunately, their characters are too stereotypical, exaggerated and unrealistic.
I like this game, I like these two characters, but sometimes their characters were so stereotypical and caricatured it hurt. Of course, they were both hypocrites and not very good people as a result. I found their behavior unrealistic given their long acquaintance and attachment with Hawke.
These characters had a lot of potential, but they were made walking stereotypes. I don't know whether to blame it for bad / lazy writing or the fact DA II developers didn't actually finish the game because deadline was too short. .
I would say the writing is surprisingly decent, considering they had under a year to make the whole game.
But honestly, I disagree that keeping them enemies is "bad writing" or "unrealistic." I once worked in a job with a coworker, and we _hated_ each other. We would ignore each other at best, and fight at worst. And that went on for almost three years. We never became friends or even "frenemies," and we never respected each other, even though we had coworkers who were mutual friends. And I never, ever want to see her again. It was a relief when I left. Sometimes, people are just on completely different wavelengths, and you simply can't get them to tolerate each others' presence.
Choosing all the "correct" dialogue boxes and having a few party banters to get everyone to hold hands and sing "kumbayah" together as BFFs seems way less realistic, imho.
BUT I do agree that over the course of "several years" in the game the characters _themselves_ should have changed somewhat. Like the "hardening" mechanic in Origins, some characters should have changed their views, like Fenris should have been able to soften or double-down on his view of mages, etc. or you should have been able to sway Anders to _not_ become a terrorist somehow.
@@GoddoDoggoThe problem is they aren't co workers, they are essentially part of the same friend groupe. If under this amount of time they couldn't get to a point when they are at lesst civil with each other, under irl circumstances they just wouldn't go togeather annywhere.
Like in Baldurs Gate (wich is fun considering thoes games are the spiritual ancestors of DA) you have companions you can't have at the same time because they just don't get along. I understand that it would be uncomfortable for gameplay here, but from a story point of view, they should have either learn to not tear each other's throat out non stop, or refuse to go on missions togeather.
Isabela > Both of them combined
...but I like how witty Fenris is. Anders should take notes.
Anders is such a hypocrite, I don't like him
Hell yeah!
But after hearing that I took 3 seconds and just said damn.
Is it me or did Fenris and Anders seem more civil with each other in Act 1?
Whoa whoa whoa. No need to be hostile, and I myself apologize if I came off as attacking you! Well, I identify as a lesbian woman, first of all, so it's actually sort of nice to know that I can be a female Hawke and still romance someone like Merrill or Isabela. It's not blind idealism to want equality and to receive it from games. If you don't want the characters to be bisexual and "cheapen" your heterosexuality, then simply don't flirt with the characters of your same sex!
How is it that I never chose the romance options for anders (I was romancing fenris) but he got jealous of fenris?
What was Fenris talking about when he said "Leave Hawke was the hardest thing he
did?
The scene when he got up from bed and said his menories flashed back
The night that she was in the bed and he stood at fireplace, after hadriana
will you two get a room
i did him two
Who is better in DA:2 I mean I like the cute little beast Fenris F off Anders you weak mage and it's funny cause I'm a mage Blood mage ;)
Thank you fenris you my baby XD although I’d never leave you for anyone so you don’t need to kill anyone
I still ship them
Fenris is the eternal best boii.
I wish I could pawn off Anders to Danarius in Fenris' stead so that he can see that not only mages have it hard in life.
It's true that the circles can be fucked up, but Anders' "solutions" are horrific and made things exponentially worse for everyone. And Fenris, despite his faults and prejudices, will hear Hawke out if they want to defend the mages. He's willing to talk it out and compromise, because that's what sensible adults and lovers do. No matter WHAT you say or do Anders is always 'deeeeeugh blow up da church. this is fine'
Fuck Anders.
Anders destroyed a false compromise that was maintaing a status quo of slavery and torture.
The revered mother just sat and watched as Meredith ruled the city, abusing the mages. If you stand aside when faced with oppressor and victim, you favor the oppressor and stand with them.
Anders forced a confrontation long overdue because the standstill was just getting worse and worse.
im a mage and would never own ppl against there will. Only as servents that get payed and a home.
Let's go Team Anders!!!!!!
No. Anders is nothing but a whiny hypocrite who deserved every terrible thing that came to him.
Morrigan fenris is a black dude in disguise who cried about racism when there is none. I killed him straight when he sided with templars. Died like he lived. Whining like a tumblr girl
099Nitro Considering his upbringing around mages, the fact that he’s still continuously being chased by them, his only living family member betraying him because of magic, AND Ander’s blowing up the Chantry, how the hell is he not justified in his anger towards them when he’s continuously reminded of how awful they are?
Granted I’m often pro mage but completely sympathize with what Fenris has gone through.
@@xxMiraclesMay I know the person is shitty when they both praise fenris AND love morrigan
@@bibelow1377 I didn't praise Fenris and Morrigan has nothing to do with this.
Fenris ishhh so cute :D
Aaaaand one more because I can't shut up: I apologize for assuming you're heterosexual in my first message! I don't know if that's the case, so my mistake for simply jumping to conclusions!
me too
I couldn't help but wait for Fenris even though he is a total dick about mages, he gets better. Besides, I can't stand characters like Anders that pour their hearts out and are all "I love you" this "I love you" that all the damn time.
Fenris: "No Magister would turn down an advantage." (Referring to the use of blood magic)
Dorian: Am I a joke to you?
To be fair, Dorian isn't a Magister at this point in time, but the point stands.
I had Anders in my party because of sentiment from DAO, but after first playing i cant feel about him right, Justice changed him too much. I wanna try with Fenris but im kinda afraid of him Emoisness:D
Actually it really doesn't cheapen sexuality. Not everyone in the world is bisexual, I'll give you that, but we're entering a new era where people are starting to be okay with others being open about their sexuality. Not everyone is heterosexual either, after all. The characters being bisexual are opportunities for LGBT people and everyone in between to have representation. A lesbian woman can be a lesbian Hawke with Merrill, for instance, just as a gay man can be with Fenris, and etc. Equality!
And feris andrea love male -
Fenris romanced Hawke: you have to pass through me first!!! xD
Having these two in my group made me suicidal. I dropped Whiny Elf like a hot potato in all of my other playthroughs after.