Resources to learn more about the topics in this video: Athiesm: ruclips.net/p/PL8U_Qmq9oNY4I2RAT94zWGS3yo7Ma3QKI&si=13BjO_dPQs4P3aRz Materialism/existance of a soul/afterlife: ruclips.net/video/NQLypwgqefc/видео.htmlsi=_7fKsRtJZw4pvfhr Secular Morals/hummanism: ruclips.net/video/cq2C7fyVTA4/видео.htmlsi=Qqv2-A1qyQa14dGN&t=797 Absurdism: ruclips.net/video/rjx6o7NZOjE/видео.htmlsi=uZ9SEDlEs7B8y4db Stoicism: ruclips.net/video/hVnJxZXzxX4/видео.htmlsi=VeS7a3MHe1l6rjOR
Hey man! I just found your page. I’m interested in many of the same topics as yourself. I grew up in a Christian home and lost my faith around age 16 as I gained a love for science and was confronted with the seemingly irrefutable evidence against fundamentalist Christianity. I subsequently went to university and graduated with a neuroscience degree in hopes of learning more about myself and the world around me. Perhaps to your surprise, today, I do believe in God and am a practicing Christian. I’d love to virtually connect and have a conversation sometime to share thoughts and learn from one another!
as a stoic atheist with an interest in metaphysics. I wonder in your own case, was there ever paradigmatic shift that let you to a path of enlightenment, in a lack of better term. or was it similar like my own a natural occurrence of perception and intellectual curiosity?
I was actually very hesitant to have an open mind about arguments and perspectives outside of Christianity because I didn't want it to mess up my faith. But at some point, I realized that my worldview wasn't well-informed at all. I love biology and science in general, and when I looked at how claims were founded and beliefs were formed in science based on evidence, I realized that my theistic view lacked evidence. So that started to shake my faith a little bit. But then I got into philosophy to try to gain more knowledge about how we form our ideas and that's when I came across all the philosophical issues of the Christian god, like divine hiddenness, the problem of suffering, the idea that someone HAD to be killed for our sins etc. Now, I'm open/agnostic to the idea of a god in general. But in terms of the Abrahamic god, I'm an atheist.
Regarding materialism and the brain, when I was a teenager I never understood how a person could develop Alzheimer's and lose their memory, yet someone regain it after death? Or how someone could be "brain dead" and then expect to have some kind of meaningful existence after death. How can we hope to meet up with people in death when they can't communicate in life because their brains are so damaged that they can't really think? What are we, if not our thoughts? It's quite clear our thoughts don't really exist outside our physical brains, and a study of neuroscience just confirms that.
4:16 what I've been saying since forever, God is not necessary. For materialism they say we reduce everything simply to matter, it only seems like we reduce because they increase.
Thanks for giving me a better insight onto what you believe in. On all philosophies you covered, I really understand your skepticism. At the end of the day, your are completely right. There is no historical evidence that Jesus walked this earth. And for you to be skeptical, is the most fair thing. As an atheist, I really like that you’re open to new beliefs and that they are not cemented. Also I am going to look more into stoicism to understand it more. It seems that it is without a religion, it is very knowledgeable about how someone should live their life to the fullest. I understand your viewpoint about materialism, but since I am a Christian I simply don’t believe in it. I get that volcanoes and floods and earthquakes are natural and that proves a good point. I would just think the creator of the universe would be able to create those without effort. I really like watching your videos, they help me understand other points of view rather than just Christianity since I was born into it. Thanks for sharing dude. 👍
Glad to hear! Thanks for commenting and asking questions! I’m very happy you’re getting more into philosophy and exploring different ideas. Let me know if there is anything else I can help with 😊
Also I'd like to make a note about Jesus existence, many would support the idea of a historical figure or some person named Jesus who existed but the part which is commonly disputed is that it could be proven in anyway that he was god or did anything supernatural. I'm not against the idea of someone who existed named Jesus and he went around teaching things, just that his claim that he is god and did supernatural miralces is suspect.
Sharing for the overall review moment. --- God claims not matching reality/not being substantiated in the context of reality is what makes atheism reasonable. I denote material as that which can have interactivity with energy and matter being instances of such. One can denote morality as being objective IF one establishes a criteria by which morality can be adjudicated. One of our core issues with morality as commonly claimed is that the content as to what it entails is often in conflict in varying degrees. (See Essentially Contested Concepts for more details)
Intrestingly enough our philosophical views are quite similar there are differences like your views on materialism idealism is more my thing but overall great video
Hold on - you are telling me that my purely rationalistic and entirely in no way demonstrable argument in favor of a vacuous, undefinable, and unknowable "entity" I label as "God" in my argument, which I will later, somehow leapfrog to - and entirely not through the bias of being reared upon existing religious groups - label as the Abrahamic deity, is unconvincing to you?
Hey - thanks for sharing your thoughts. I had a search for truth myself and was willing to go any direction whether the evidence lead. I wrote about the process I went through in some word documents (I'm a Christian now). I'd be happy to email you my study on the existence of God and the Abrahamic religions if you'd like? Would be curious to hear your thoughts.
@@SharedPhilosophy I do not believe that there is a great man with a beard judging us in the sky just for your knowledge... But maybe all that colective consciousness for our ancestors have some wisdom that we cant even comprehend
Radically disagree with the suffering comments. I agree with your conclusion, but what does there “have to” be suffering? You say it’s necessary in a situation where you suffer while working out, but through that suffering you achieve a greater good of having muscle. None if this is supported, though. If there was a god, surely he could engineer a universe where you could achieve muscle without the subjective feeling of suffering, right? The real argument you want to be leveling at the theist is that ALL suffering is unnecessary, it makes no sense to me why you’d give some suffering a pass for the “greater good”-it entirely undermines your argument. How would you even define “necessary” suffering? I suppose you did mention you’re a stoic which might mean you view suffering as a test that is inevitable and manageable with the right attitude or something idk. I just see no need to add “unnecessary” before “suffering”. Again though, agree with the overall conclusion.
I see what you're saying, But, I believe there are goods in the world that could only logically be achieved through a certain level of "necessary" suffering, such as the good of bravery. By definition, you'd have to suffer the suffering of fear to bring about bravery and the motivation to push past that fear, because if the suffering of fear didn't exist then what are you being brave for? Another example would be hate and kindness. I'd love to have a discussion on this, thanks for the comment!
@@SharedPhilosophy I kinda agree with the first commenter too here. God in his omnipotence could make the universe in any way he wants. He choosed to make everything like this. He could make a universe where bravery is not a thing or people naturally are courageous or whatever. It doesn't really matter because at the end of the day an omnibenevolent being will always choose a universe without any suffering, because the alternative involves suffering. It is claimed by religious people that suffering in such instances can make a person grow or serve a greater purpose, but once again this follow up is made with reference to the world we live in. The omnipotent god could make a world where such thing is once again superflous. In fact we could say that the universe we live in is superflous to an omnipotent god, since by definition he needs nothing. All of these kind of objections to me sound very HUMAN, because of course for us bravery is important. Going against the odds etc. for us it's an important characteristic because we are not necessarly born with such traits and we need to cultivate them, and we need to do that because we have no other choice. All of these comments show that the one that made up god was human, because this god cares and think like a human would... not like the triomni god would.
@@warswordx4536 I see. You do make some very good points on this topic. I never realized how much of a human perspective I was using to view this through. I think you make some very good points here, it really doesn't leave much room for any excuses for god to allow suffering of any level. I think I'm going to have to change my view on this topic, because I actually never looked at it from this perspective. I kinda just accepted that god would want courage to exist. But what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Why would god care about bravery? this is only something humans should care about. This does seem to be another case of people anthropomorphizing god in their image. Yeah I change my mind on this, I agree with your position. Thank you for the insight :)
Secular humanism give you nothing to hold like organised religion does even if they are false. Humans need a strong emotional attachment to a cause within a group to function properly. If secular humanism says don't steal. The question is why not? When push come to shove, I will steal. More % of religious people are able to refrain from sin cos of heaven even if there is no such a place or atleast humans are not going there.
I see what you're saying, However, why should we stick with an ancient outdated way of structuring our lives and morals when we haven't even tried to do better? What if there is a better way of structuring society that we haven't found yet? I don't think we should think "well, religion works as a good lie so let's leave it be" I think we should strive to find something better with less baggage. Because religion is not perfect and causes a lot of conflict. Even if secular humanism doesn't work I still won't give up and just say religion is the only solution and that's that. We must do better, we can do better.
Problem is with all these point of views everybody fell into that selfishness of believing they're way was the right way... Same thing with atheism. "We have evolved therefore we no longer need those primitive beliefs" evolving into a more materialistic world and less about the "spirit" wich is an ancient word for consciousness.
Not quite sure where you got the notion that I believe that my view is the only right one. As I specifically mentioned at the beginning of the video, I'm willing to change my views based on the available evidence and sound arguments. I've never simply dismissed religious belief as some sort of "primitive beliefs" I have dismissed them based on the consistent lack of evidence on their part to provide a valid explanation for the world and the events in it. Why call our consciousness "spirit" and assign all these attributes that cannot be proven when we can call it consciousness and not make up random unprovable claims about such consciousness?
@@SharedPhilosophy well im not attacking you specifically and I understand that it would be nice to sit there and get a proof that god exist but I think its deeper than that... Living your life with the aim of love, personal growth and building up a family. They are fundamental values that have been transmitted from your ancestors... This kind of life would lead you to (on your death bed) *if your that lucky:).... To die with a clean conscience aka going to heaven
Atheism doesn't take away from any of these goals or meanings in life. The only thing that atheists collectively share is that we are not convinced there is a god. thats it. We're still humans who want to pursue family values, love, career goals, improving the world, etc. and you don't need a belief in god to do any of those.
Perhaps your view on unnecessary suffering is not well established... The point in believing in a "god" is that life is suffering itself and that "pursuing the logos" (The word of god) is to make the greatest sacrifices to overcome the weight of being no matter the level of suffering.
You listened to a lil too much Jordon Peterson haven't you? If you're going to claim that your god is perfect love and is willing to save people from their suffering (which is the claim that many christians make) then that should be clearly visible in the real world. And it is not.
It should be clearly visible because it is, by definition, INFINITE love. So this would mean that, at the least, there shouldn't be unnecessary suffering in the world because perfect love wouldn't allow for such a thing to exist if it is truly infinite.
@@SharedPhilosophy well i think thats where faith is important... No matter how suffering you encounter, you can always believe in something... Instead of saying everything is meaningless and nobody will remember me in a 100 years. Also, for the sake of the conversation, neurology dosent understand where the consciousness comes from and about 96% of the universe is called "dark matter". I suggest to you if you are open minded as you say, to dive in the religious POV and you might have more points to talk about than just wanting proof for the great santa in the sky! Thanks for responding
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Resources to learn more about the topics in this video:
Athiesm:
ruclips.net/p/PL8U_Qmq9oNY4I2RAT94zWGS3yo7Ma3QKI&si=13BjO_dPQs4P3aRz
Materialism/existance of a soul/afterlife:
ruclips.net/video/NQLypwgqefc/видео.htmlsi=_7fKsRtJZw4pvfhr
Secular Morals/hummanism:
ruclips.net/video/cq2C7fyVTA4/видео.htmlsi=Qqv2-A1qyQa14dGN&t=797
Absurdism:
ruclips.net/video/rjx6o7NZOjE/видео.htmlsi=uZ9SEDlEs7B8y4db
Stoicism:
ruclips.net/video/hVnJxZXzxX4/видео.htmlsi=VeS7a3MHe1l6rjOR
Hey man! I just found your page. I’m interested in many of the same topics as yourself. I grew up in a Christian home and lost my faith around age 16 as I gained a love for science and was confronted with the seemingly irrefutable evidence against fundamentalist Christianity. I subsequently went to university and graduated with a neuroscience degree in hopes of learning more about myself and the world around me. Perhaps to your surprise, today, I do believe in God and am a practicing Christian. I’d love to virtually connect and have a conversation sometime to share thoughts and learn from one another!
I would love to! Please shoot me an email at shervinzahem@gmail.com and we can figure out a time 😊
as a stoic atheist with an interest in metaphysics. I wonder in your own case, was there ever paradigmatic shift that let you to a path of enlightenment, in a lack of better term. or was it similar like my own a natural occurrence of perception and intellectual curiosity?
I was actually very hesitant to have an open mind about arguments and perspectives outside of Christianity because I didn't want it to mess up my faith. But at some point, I realized that my worldview wasn't well-informed at all. I love biology and science in general, and when I looked at how claims were founded and beliefs were formed in science based on evidence, I realized that my theistic view lacked evidence. So that started to shake my faith a little bit.
But then I got into philosophy to try to gain more knowledge about how we form our ideas and that's when I came across all the philosophical issues of the Christian god, like divine hiddenness, the problem of suffering, the idea that someone HAD to be killed for our sins etc.
Now, I'm open/agnostic to the idea of a god in general. But in terms of the Abrahamic god, I'm an atheist.
Regarding materialism and the brain, when I was a teenager I never understood how a person could develop Alzheimer's and lose their memory, yet someone regain it after death? Or how someone could be "brain dead" and then expect to have some kind of meaningful existence after death. How can we hope to meet up with people in death when they can't communicate in life because their brains are so damaged that they can't really think? What are we, if not our thoughts? It's quite clear our thoughts don't really exist outside our physical brains, and a study of neuroscience just confirms that.
4:16 what I've been saying since forever, God is not necessary. For materialism they say we reduce everything simply to matter, it only seems like we reduce because they increase.
"it only seems like we reduce because they increase" Well said, I like that.
Thanks for giving me a better insight onto what you believe in. On all philosophies you covered, I really understand your skepticism. At the end of the day, your are completely right. There is no historical evidence that Jesus walked this earth. And for you to be skeptical, is the most fair thing. As an atheist, I really like that you’re open to new beliefs and that they are not cemented. Also I am going to look more into stoicism to understand it more. It seems that it is without a religion, it is very knowledgeable about how someone should live their life to the fullest. I understand your viewpoint about materialism, but since I am a Christian I simply don’t believe in it. I get that volcanoes and floods and earthquakes are natural and that proves a good point. I would just think the creator of the universe would be able to create those without effort. I really like watching your videos, they help me understand other points of view rather than just Christianity since I was born into it. Thanks for sharing dude. 👍
Glad to hear! Thanks for commenting and asking questions! I’m very happy you’re getting more into philosophy and exploring different ideas. Let me know if there is anything else I can help with 😊
Also I'd like to make a note about Jesus existence, many would support the idea of a historical figure or some person named Jesus who existed but the part which is commonly disputed is that it could be proven in anyway that he was god or did anything supernatural. I'm not against the idea of someone who existed named Jesus and he went around teaching things, just that his claim that he is god and did supernatural miralces is suspect.
Sharing for the overall review moment.
---
God claims not matching reality/not being substantiated in the context of reality is what makes atheism reasonable.
I denote material as that which can have interactivity with energy and matter being instances of such.
One can denote morality as being objective IF one establishes a criteria by which morality can be adjudicated. One of our core issues with morality as commonly claimed is that the content as to what it entails is often in conflict in varying degrees. (See Essentially Contested Concepts for more details)
Intrestingly enough our philosophical views are quite similar there are differences like your views on materialism idealism is more my thing but overall great video
Thank you!
I haven't looked much into idealism, but I'll definitely read up on it
Hold on - you are telling me that my purely rationalistic and entirely in no way demonstrable argument in favor of a vacuous, undefinable, and unknowable "entity" I label as "God" in my argument, which I will later, somehow leapfrog to - and entirely not through the bias of being reared upon existing religious groups - label as the Abrahamic deity, is unconvincing to you?
A lil bit 🤷♂
Hey - thanks for sharing your thoughts. I had a search for truth myself and was willing to go any direction whether the evidence lead. I wrote about the process I went through in some word documents (I'm a Christian now). I'd be happy to email you my study on the existence of God and the Abrahamic religions if you'd like? Would be curious to hear your thoughts.
Yes please do! I always love studying and reading new perspectives! My email is shervinzahem@gmail.com
Religion is kind of the way that the human race found a way of channelling life into somekind of meaning...a guide of some sort
That's fine if people wanna believe claims which lack evidence in order to comfort themselves. But just because it's useful doesn't make it true.
@@SharedPhilosophy I do not believe that there is a great man with a beard judging us in the sky just for your knowledge... But maybe all that colective consciousness for our ancestors have some wisdom that we cant even comprehend
From*
Radically disagree with the suffering comments. I agree with your conclusion, but what does there “have to” be suffering? You say it’s necessary in a situation where you suffer while working out, but through that suffering you achieve a greater good of having muscle. None if this is supported, though. If there was a god, surely he could engineer a universe where you could achieve muscle without the subjective feeling of suffering, right? The real argument you want to be leveling at the theist is that ALL suffering is unnecessary, it makes no sense to me why you’d give some suffering a pass for the “greater good”-it entirely undermines your argument. How would you even define “necessary” suffering?
I suppose you did mention you’re a stoic which might mean you view suffering as a test that is inevitable and manageable with the right attitude or something idk.
I just see no need to add “unnecessary” before “suffering”. Again though, agree with the overall conclusion.
I see what you're saying,
But, I believe there are goods in the world that could only logically be achieved through a certain level of "necessary" suffering, such as the good of bravery. By definition, you'd have to suffer the suffering of fear to bring about bravery and the motivation to push past that fear, because if the suffering of fear didn't exist then what are you being brave for? Another example would be hate and kindness.
I'd love to have a discussion on this, thanks for the comment!
@@SharedPhilosophy I kinda agree with the first commenter too here. God in his omnipotence could make the universe in any way he wants. He choosed to make everything like this. He could make a universe where bravery is not a thing or people naturally are courageous or whatever. It doesn't really matter because at the end of the day an omnibenevolent being will always choose a universe without any suffering, because the alternative involves suffering. It is claimed by religious people that suffering in such instances can make a person grow or serve a greater purpose, but once again this follow up is made with reference to the world we live in.
The omnipotent god could make a world where such thing is once again superflous. In fact we could say that the universe we live in is superflous to an omnipotent god, since by definition he needs nothing.
All of these kind of objections to me sound very HUMAN, because of course for us bravery is important. Going against the odds etc. for us it's an important characteristic because we are not necessarly born with such traits and we need to cultivate them, and we need to do that because we have no other choice. All of these comments show that the one that made up god was human, because this god cares and think like a human would... not like the triomni god would.
@@warswordx4536 I see. You do make some very good points on this topic. I never realized how much of a human perspective I was using to view this through.
I think you make some very good points here, it really doesn't leave much room for any excuses for god to allow suffering of any level.
I think I'm going to have to change my view on this topic, because I actually never looked at it from this perspective. I kinda just accepted that god would want courage to exist. But what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Why would god care about bravery? this is only something humans should care about. This does seem to be another case of people anthropomorphizing god in their image.
Yeah I change my mind on this, I agree with your position. Thank you for the insight :)
Secular humanism give you nothing to hold like organised religion does even if they are false. Humans need a strong emotional attachment to a cause within a group to function properly. If secular humanism says don't steal. The question is why not? When push come to shove, I will steal. More % of religious people are able to refrain from sin cos of heaven even if there is no such a place or atleast humans are not going there.
I see what you're saying,
However, why should we stick with an ancient outdated way of structuring our lives and morals when we haven't even tried to do better? What if there is a better way of structuring society that we haven't found yet? I don't think we should think "well, religion works as a good lie so let's leave it be" I think we should strive to find something better with less baggage. Because religion is not perfect and causes a lot of conflict. Even if secular humanism doesn't work I still won't give up and just say religion is the only solution and that's that. We must do better, we can do better.
Problem is with all these point of views everybody fell into that selfishness of believing they're way was the right way... Same thing with atheism. "We have evolved therefore we no longer need those primitive beliefs" evolving into a more materialistic world and less about the "spirit" wich is an ancient word for consciousness.
Not quite sure where you got the notion that I believe that my view is the only right one. As I specifically mentioned at the beginning of the video, I'm willing to change my views based on the available evidence and sound arguments. I've never simply dismissed religious belief as some sort of "primitive beliefs" I have dismissed them based on the consistent lack of evidence on their part to provide a valid explanation for the world and the events in it. Why call our consciousness "spirit" and assign all these attributes that cannot be proven when we can call it consciousness and not make up random unprovable claims about such consciousness?
@@SharedPhilosophy well im not attacking you specifically and I understand that it would be nice to sit there and get a proof that god exist but I think its deeper than that... Living your life with the aim of love, personal growth and building up a family. They are fundamental values that have been transmitted from your ancestors... This kind of life would lead you to (on your death bed) *if your that lucky:).... To die with a clean conscience aka going to heaven
Atheism doesn't take away from any of these goals or meanings in life. The only thing that atheists collectively share is that we are not convinced there is a god. thats it. We're still humans who want to pursue family values, love, career goals, improving the world, etc. and you don't need a belief in god to do any of those.
@@SharedPhilosophy where do you think those values come from?
@@SharedPhilosophy think of religion and atheism as a spectrum
Your brain is a receiver
What is the evidence that there is an outside force acting upon this "receiver"?
Perhaps your view on unnecessary suffering is not well established... The point in believing in a "god" is that life is suffering itself and that "pursuing the logos" (The word of god) is to make the greatest sacrifices to overcome the weight of being no matter the level of suffering.
You listened to a lil too much Jordon Peterson haven't you?
If you're going to claim that your god is perfect love and is willing to save people from their suffering (which is the claim that many christians make) then that should be clearly visible in the real world. And it is not.
@@SharedPhilosophy why should it be clearly visible?
@@SharedPhilosophy also I do listen to him and think he is on to something...
It should be clearly visible because it is, by definition, INFINITE love. So this would mean that, at the least, there shouldn't be unnecessary suffering in the world because perfect love wouldn't allow for such a thing to exist if it is truly infinite.
@@SharedPhilosophy well i think thats where faith is important... No matter how suffering you encounter, you can always believe in something... Instead of saying everything is meaningless and nobody will remember me in a 100 years. Also, for the sake of the conversation, neurology dosent understand where the consciousness comes from and about 96% of the universe is called "dark matter". I suggest to you if you are open minded as you say, to dive in the religious POV and you might have more points to talk about than just wanting proof for the great santa in the sky! Thanks for responding