It was my impression that the German one had a cast iron "crown" that could be fixed around the head of the grenade prior to use, or maybe it was the Chinese version. Am I correct? Also, I believe that the Germans, while retreating from the Allies, during urban warfare, would hang their stick grenades from a wall that the allied soldiers would have to climb, and in poor lighting or under ivy cover, hang their stick grenades by the pull chords, and Allied casuaties would result when the climbing soldier grasped a grenade or its stick.
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There‘s a difference in offensive and defensive grenades. In general, offensive grenades have no or only a small amount of splinters, since its purpose is to force the enemy behind cover and when you charge or flank etc. you dont want shrapnel flying around. A defensive grenade has LOTS of shrapnel , since you are behind cover and are trying to kill the enemy who advances. The M24 was for attacking. When you try to push through an enemy formation, so the core strategy of blitzkrieg, that grenade was good. Defensively its was to less lethal. No shrapnel and you have less lethal radius. Hope i helped clarify and if you have comments or further knowledge, pls feel free
"core strategy of blitzkrieg" Its called manouver warfare. There never was a "strategy" called Blitzkrieg. Its a wartime myth created by the british press to explain the allies quick defeat in France. The germans basically learned about their supposed wonder strategy (which they had done for close to 200 years at this point) through the BBC and just rolled with the name later on because it had great propaganda value of beeing the guys with the "super strategy to defeat all enemies". The basic of quick initial offensives to eliminate enemy forces near the broder and destroy them, then exploit this to quickly seize the backland, was already used by Prussia in the 7 years war (the invasion of saxony to quickly eliminate an austrian ally before the inevitable war would start so they couldnt join forces), the austrian-prussian war of 1866 (rushing all prussian forces into austrian bohemia and drawing the still assembling austrians into a decisive battle immidiatly. The war was decided after one battle), the franco-prussian war (rushing the french army in elsass-lorraine and splitting it up into different smaller forces that get encircled in border towns and local fortresses (Metz, Sedan), destroying basically all pre war french armies within a months of the war and then marching basically undisturbed to Paris and besiege it), the first World War (The plan was to quickly rush throguh Belgium outflanking the french army, seize Paris (and northern Frances industry) so France would be incapable of continuing the war, also opening the possibility to entrap the entire french army at the french-german border - the plan failed but was as far as strategy went the same thing the germans did in WW2) and then WW2 in France (Rushing through Belgium to outflank the allied forces at the border, destroy them in short succession as fast as possible and then quickly occupy the rest of France before France can rebuild its armies. Its a classic short war strategy of putting all your ressources in basically an early rush strategy. Nothing new of fancy (only compared to trench warfare). The "Blitzkrieg" strategy was the norm of european warfare for centuries while WW1 trench warfare was the exception. The germans didnt invent a new strategy, they went back to the old one and made adjustmeants for the new technology like every nation the centuries before them.
Dude the m24 has almost 3x the explosive filler (155g vs 52g or 66g). It also produced rather larger shrapnel from the case and the surounding area. All in all the Stielhandgranate was quite a bit more deadly then the pineapple. the m2 was more convenient to carry though and thats it.
That would explain the scene from Band of Brothers where Joe Toye gets blasted by 2 german grenades in the Brecourt trenches and survives without serious injuries. ("Fucking twice")
And in typical German fashion they called it "Eihandgranate" what means Egg hand grenade". They also used it's earlier version the M17 "Eierhandgranate"* in the first world war and before that they had the ball shaped "M13-M15 "Kugelhandgranate" (ball hand granade) that also had surface grooves like the American M2. *I don't know why the earlier version is called Eier (eggs) and the later Ei (egg).
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq I remember seeing the model 39 in a couple movies, most notably Downfall. It was featured in the suicide/familicide scene. But totally agree it almost never gets any screen time.
@@gepbalta Eierhandgranate vs. Eihandgranate: in this case, there are two ways in German to form the compound word, either with or without -er-. The infix -er-, despite looking like the plural suffix of Ei, doesn't actually mean anything but only serves to "glue" the two words together. Why and when such elements are needed in German is a question evading even professional linguists.
…….plus , the German M24 stick and M39 egg grenades also could be fitted with fragmentation sleeves to be used defensively. The only ( real ) movie that I can think of where a frag sleeve on a stick grenade ( actually an M43 stick grenade ) was showcased was the movie “Saints and Soldiers”. These are cool little videos, by the way !
Just gonna point out that a major advantage of a Mk-2 is it's controllability. Once you pull the pin, as long as you don't release the safty handle, you can hold onto it (theoretically) indefinitely. That means you can time your release. It also meant that technically, you could put the pin back in if needed. You couldn't really do that with the sticks. Once they were primed, they had to be thrown within a fairly short amount of time. The Mk-2s were also more controllable. You could roll 'em easier. You could bounce/ricochet them easier. If a soldier was a good enough tosser, he could get it through smaller openings then a stick could go through. In Vietnam, some helicopter pilots/crewmembers I know would pull the pins out of some M26A1 / M61 grenades (similar in size to the Mk-2s), then slide them into mason jars so that the safety handles were held in place. Then when they were flying over some enemy soldiers, they could drop the granade jars (or a crate of jars) on them. When the jars hit, the glass would break, & the safety handles would release, letting the grenades go boom.
ive heard of booby traps using the pineapple grenade where vietnamese would stuff the grenade into a bamboo pole tight enough to depress the spoon, pull the pin and tie a tripwire to the grenade. the tripwire would go across a jungle path and when someone walked into it, it would pull the grenade out of the bamboo tube releasing the spoon.
@@user-ft3jq5vi2l that wasnt late war. The germans already had those shrapnel coats in ww1. The stick grenade without a coat is an offensive grenade. That means that the soldiers who throw it dont realy need to be in cover but only far enough away of the grenade because it only damages with an explosion so its very usefull if your troops attack an enemy trench and are out in the open whereas the enemy is in cover so when they throw grenades and it doesnt land directly insode the trench you dont blast your own troops. If your troops are in a trench the shrapnel "coats" are put on for increased range to blast everything that is infront of the trench into oblivion while your own troops just take cover in their own trench
The pineapple grenade could also be used with the adapter and special cartridge to be launched from an M1 or M1903 rifle. There were specialized rifle grenades that looked like small mortar rounds, one of those can be seen being fired at the beginning of Saving Private Ryan during the Omaha Beach scene, but there was also an adapter that launched a regular pineapple grenade.
Also there was a difference related to sports people played. Both the British and the Americans played a sport - cricket and baseball - where people learnt how to throw a ball a considerable distance with good accuracy. The Germans didn't have similar sports. So the potato masher stick grenade was thought to be easier to throw by the Germans, while the British and Americans thought that egg shaped ball-sized grenades would be easier to throw.
@@AEB1066 not realy, yes they both played sports where balls are thrown that might have reduced training time by a small bit (if even that) but that doesnt make them interchangable. The stick grenade was by far not the only one the germans where using (they had very similar ball shaped grenades like the allies had) but the stick grenade is just the most iconic. The stick genade had the advantage of increased range ( because the lever is increased with the handle length) and that it doesnt roll away from where it landed easily. There might have been further advantages that arent normaly talked about (production cost, safety, modularity, . . . )
My father had a German stick grenade bounce off the heal of his boot in Italy and explode behind him. There is very little fragmentation but it did ring his bell. Luckily, his brother-in-law, ( my uncle) ran out and carried him to safety until his head cleared. They always released the spoon , counted to 3 before throwing their own grenade.
That’s because the German grenades shown here were basically stun grenades while the US model was for fragmentation. The intended use of the weapons is quite different. Germans also had pineapple type grenades.
Woody Harrellson messed with the pin before he blew his ass off on Hill 210. The pin has two metal strips that are folded when the spoon is secured with the pin. Harrellson's character thought it would be easier to deploy if he did so but result was that the pin came out too quick before he could grasp it and it got caught on his belt. GIs were told never to fumble around with the safety pin but sometimes they ignored it when they thought it was necessary. Results varied.
A brother of mine did similar in training with a Smoke grenade. I'll never forget him running round flapping his arms screaming. His exposed skin was red for days after.
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq honestly, it was one of the funniest things I ever saw in my service. We are taught never to hang grenades or mess with the pin until it's time to kablooey something, but idiot boy went all Hollywood. Hung the thing off his webbing, the spoon stuck, the pin caught on something and the rest is hilarious history.
@@kyledunn6853 exactly. If it was a live L2a1 I wouldn't be here now, I think. It taught us a valuable lesson we would never forget and a topic of laughter to this day.
I think size is probably the ultimate determinator, stick grenade just takes up too much space which might work in a conventional mechanical warfare but in many of the (most of the post WWII wars) where infantry marching on foot were the mainstay, the ability to carry x+5 could outweigh any loss of accuracy
I dont think that is the main reason to be honest, the stick handgrenade could be way lighter if it was remodelled with a polymer stick i just think that it isnt as usefull anymore as back then because basically ever squad has a grenade launcher nowadays so the main improvement of the stick hand grenade is covered. Not to mention that the fuse of the M24 isnt as usefull anymore as back then when it was cheap, we have better cheaper fuses nowadays
I think the stick grenades can make a resurgence imo. While surely grenade launchers exist, but that's another weapon you need to carry and also you need to be the grenadier specialist to use them. The stick grenade could be made with some good additions and design changes and I'm sure it would also be cheaper to make than grenade launchers.
@@ElkaPME it would be cheaper to make then grenade launchers but a grenade launcher has far more range then a stick grenade. You dont realy need a new specialist and complete new weapon with underbarrel grenade launchers and modern armies are tiny elite forces in comparison to the millions that where on the battlefield in ww2. A stick grenade still has a place in the world but just in 3rd world countries or civil wars in afrika i would say where every weapon counts
You could make telescopic plastic handles instead of fixed sticks. They wouldn't be as useful for Western armed force that have plenty of grenade launchers, but for a country like India I can see them being of use, in case of a total war.
And they were known as offensive grenades as they did not have much in terms of frag compared to the American grenades so a frag ring was put on sometimes for that effect hence more weight
You feel to mention how the German stick grenade was designed for concussion rather than fragmentation. Each grenade at its own advantages different environments
This difference is exaggerated imo. Germans and Americans mostly used grenades for the same reason. The main thought was to keep the enemy busy for a few seconds and maybe disorient. The MKII was more deadly, but not enough to change how it was used.
I feel the main reason the stick grenade faded from use wasnt the weight, but the distance of engament. Most modern fighting is room to room where the added leverage isnt worth the added weight. That, and it was a concussion grenade, not fragmentation without modification.
I would say no. Engagement distances between two near par conventional forces would be very long since both would have the capability to engage from 6 to 700 meters out with there machine guns and in the case of US pin them down at this distance and use air power to destroy them. But for standard rifle like the m4 effective range was up to 500 meters but you could still fire from longer distances. Overall I would say engament ranges have either stayed the same or gone up since the ww2 which was 200-400 meters. Now offcourse this is for conventional near pier forces offcourse for a war with insurgence its complety different and is extremely varied. Sometimes you will be doing cqb at less then 25 meters other times you hot a guy almost 700 out firing with an ak that has no hope of hitting anything haha. So it's hard to say. I think the biger factor that killed stick grenades was the advament of grenade launcher tech which gave troops much longer range then the smaller advantage that the stick gives while also being smaller so just better in every way. That I think is the bigger factor of why that dies after the war because it simply was outdated design once you could lob a smaller greneade 200 meters away with the same effect
..and so the germans faced their early war enemies in the field at a large distance which they cannot tresspass without being fired upon..hence stick grenades were the needed grenade.
considering that the stick grenade went away after ww2 and not "in modern times" i find the claim unlikely. in all likelihood the Germans were already going away from stick grenades during ww2. the development of Grenade launchers and mass development of other infantry support weapons took away the main advantages the stick grenade had.
One movie mk II grenade trope that should be mentioned: unless you’ve pre-straitened the pin, pulling a pin out with your teeth would likely result in a lot of ripped out teeth.
Well, everyone knows them because they are iconic . The m24 will be recognized by most as german and the mk2 as american. If a german soldier suddenly was seen throwing an m39 many people will at first glance wonder why. The model is less known which is a shame as it was paradoxically produced in larger numbers than the m24
The german stick grenade also featured a splinter sleeve, but most stick grenades you'll see are the offensive grenades which need to have a limited blast radius and minimal schrapnel to prevent harming the person throwing it. The stick grenade and pineapple are suited for different roles and are both affective at what they're meant to do. The germans also made the egg grenade which features an easier pull cord and a round shape.
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq Oh that’s nice if you to say that. It’s a big problem with military history channels. I get quite disposed to with the attitude of both presenters and viewers. Your channel however, is relaxed, informative and has a lovely but subtle SOH. Some others….. jeez! “My whole family fought with Patton including my mum and baby sister and you’re WRONG!! Fact!!! He won the war completely by himself!!” That sort of thing. So, basically, keep it up.
Though having it as a stick grenade makes sense for ease of throwing. It also makes sense why most armies go for grenades similar to the Mk 2s, since you very rarely have to hock a grenade the length of a battlefield anymore (which the stick handle allows you to do cos basic physics) , and is mostly more urban combat.
@@hippoace yeah, plus would be a pain to throw around a corner or around the side of a slightly opened door, much more suited for long range engagements and anti tank purposes, which we don't really need anymore due to RPGs
@@hippoace Thats why the germans also had egg grenades similar to the US ones. THe stick grenade was primarily for offensive action and enemy suppression while the egg grenades were primarily for defense and CQC.
@@noobster4779 also, eihandgranate and stiehlhandgranate fuzes were interchangeable, so you didnt NEED a stick for the Stiehlhandgranate, amusingly. and then they'd been easier to roll through a doorway ironically
I'm sure somebody already pointed it out. But I have to say that, the actual main differences between the two grenades is one killed you by fragmentation, the other killed you by concussive force.
The Stielhandgranate was a concussion grenade and was designed to be used in close assault where it could be thrown into a nearby enemy position right before a bayonet charge. The US Mk2 grenade was known to have an unpredictable shrapnel pattern where it could even send a piece of shrapnel a 100 yds away. I've read that US soldiers really had to keep their head well down when throwing it, while the Germans did not.
While the primary effect might be concussion, that steel head looks like fragments of it could wound and kill, not as a primary function but as an extra bonus.
@@GannicusMisteriosdeHonduras Oh ok. Because i searched it on Google and the results where surnames in my native language. Many surnames in my language goes like Karapanos, Kapasanos, Papadopoulos, Karamolegos etc
Few things, Germany used 2 types the stick was an offensive granate, the 2nd type was an egg shaped and being used defensive. There is no question that the spoon is a much better system, also you can carry more. One drawback the US and other armies had is using defensive (frag) only. The stick had few advantages so, you can toss it easily at 50m and is actually pretty accurate. The idea you can toss it back is movies, because you throw it in high arc and at 5sec it tend to explode at the end of travel.
Audie Murphy, in his autobiography, recounts that he would put pieces of tape across his spoons in the event a pin accidentally came out. He also developed the habit of running his hands over his grenades, after changing positions, to confirm that they still had their pins in. He said that these habits once saved his life when he discovered that one of his grenades had it's pin dislodged after his running and diving for cover. He was able to locate the pin and replace it in the grenade. Source: To Hell and Back; Audie Murphy
Dick Winters taped the spoons on his grenades in Holland and when he led the assault on The Dike, he pulled the pins and tossed his grenades at the Germans on the other side, only to realize he forgot to break the tape. Rangers, paratroopers, and other crafty soldiers figured out you could cut bicycle inner tubes and use them as a retention band on webbing. For grenades it had the added benefit of securing the spoon as well, and when you pulled the grenade out, it was ready to go.
I have to make a comment about those Finnish clips, those were not tied up granades. Finns made stachel charges for taking out tanks and fortifications . It had 2, 3 or 4 kilos of explosives, and it had German hand granade primer .
There is nothing to expand on. You said everything perfectly in just a few minutes. Well done sir! You taught people about WW2 grenades and you did so faster than it would take to find a target, pull and ready the grenade, and then deliver that grenade to the enemy. Well done! My kudos to you sir!
German soldiers complained a bit about stick grenades. They realized that due to the stick ,it is sometimes very difficult or impossible to throw it through some small windows , like these tiny cellar windows they encountered in Poland. Stick grenades often broke a glass ,but bounce off anyway. That was problematic.
They also had egg grenades they coudl use for that. Its a myth that the germans only used stick grenades, they had two different grenades. In the offense on the countryside however (which is like 80% of warfare) the stick grenade is definitly an advantage. You can throw it basically lying down, it has a serious range benefit and most importantly: Its not a frag grenade that could harm your own troops during the assault. Its basically a stun grenade designed to force the defender into cover while the assault troops could advance. It was a weapon adapted to the new german infantery squad tactics that favoured offensive heavily and were basically the next stage of stormtrooper tactics. Small windows are only a minor problem in that case :)
We talk about real life situations here. What is available in theory is not always provided in practice. Sometimes you are issued with offensive grenades while stick grenades with fragmentation sleeve or egg grenade would do much better. It may be due to logistical issue or due to a simple fact that it is not practical to carry 3 types of grenades on you for every possible scenario. So, If you happen to be in a defensive situation ,and all you have is box of stun grenades on stick ,you throw stun grenades on stick. There are pros and cons. Modern military does not use grenades on stick - that alone says something.
I was reading a book I recently got on WWII Axis equipment and in it, they interestingly cover Italian grenades! They were called Red Devils and were impact grenades! Their shape was a small canister rather than oval or round shaped. They were painted a bright red. Unfortunately, they had a reputation of being rather unreliable, but they could also be used as landmines, with some modifications!
If I remember correctly, the US pineapple style grenade, had more of a shrapnel-fragmentation effect than the stick grenade (aka potato masher), which was more of a high explosive grenade with less fragmentation.
Yup stick was offensive blast grenade, pineapple defensive frag, with danger zone wider than could throw. Think there was frag sleeve for the m24 but ive not seen in ww2 pics
Yo I just have one question. How much time do you take to make one video like this one. Like so many edits, gathering informations, gathering scenes, filming etc. More than 4 hours at least right?
The American style hand grenade has an interesting history. During its development it was decided that it should be roughly the shape and weight of a baseball so that any good American boy could throw it with ease with very little training needed in that department of its use.
One more advantage of the GERMAN stick grande: It was often used and liked by "The Others", but it was easy to remove the delay charge, before You left them, to be used by the enemy. There are a lot of pamphlets, of all allied armies, warning about this booby traps.
Right, I read about these traps in an history book about Russian's front weapons & tacticts, seems that the germans had painted these grenades' bottom red, if they had to retreat from a position, they let some boxes as a bait, when the russians tried to use them.... Another trick was letting a pistol on a table, with under it a grenade connected with a wire.
I understood that hanging grenades off your jacket by the pin was a Korean War thing. The idea behind it was that by pulling the grenade off your jacket it was already armed and ready for use. The problem with this was quickly, and sometime fatally, revealed as the grenage could be knocked off by someone brushing passed you. You can imagine how many injuries and fatalities which occurred amongst soldiers because of the unexpected arrival of an explosive in their midst. In a similar vein. There is this notion that if you hold on to a grenade for a couple of seconds it would reduce the time the enemy had to throw the grenade back. The problem with this is that the timing of the fuse was not a precise science. You may think you have seven seconds and you could hold on to it for three or four seconds before throwing it. But the timing it could easily be shorter than that. And if it is only actually have five seconds it could easily explode while you're holding it. This, of course, means that throwing it back is even more dangerous because the timer could be shorter than you think. The name grenade comes from the fact that original grenade looked like a pomegranate. This dates from the mid 16th century and this was because it was a small round ball which looked like a pomegranate. The ball was hollow, filled with gunpowder and with a fuse in the top. Like a very small cannon ball in fact. The fuse would be lit using a slow match before it was thrown. The name pomegranate got shortened to grenade. which we still use today. The name pomegranate comes from the Medieval latin with pomme meaning apple and granate meaning grain. So grain of the apple. So when someone shouts grenade they are actually shouting is grain. And there is, of course, the pineapple, back to the pomme again. And then there is 'Hot Potato.' This seems to come from the term 'dropped like a hot potato.' So once thrown you should leave it alone. And we are also back to apples again as the word come potato comes from apple of the earth. So next time someone says that fruit, vegetables and grains are good for you you'll remember this.
Another small thing is the design choice for both. When the Stickhandle grenade was invented Axe throwing was a common passtime in Europe, while the ball shaped American grenade was because Baseball was the common passtime in America. It's easier to throw something you're already familiar with
I carried ten M-26 grenades and I threw ALL of them during a battle against the North Vietnamese (May 22, 1969). I would have preferred the WWII "pineapple" grenades however the M-26 was sufficient in eliminating the enemy.
The question of the purpose of the stick has haunted me for half my life! The stick grenade is a very old design that was developed around 1914 in the German Empire. They were never issued to every soldier in the beginning, but only to trained specialists called hand grenade throwers. The stick, a disadvantage in every other respect, did allow these specialists to throw this hand grenade slightly further than an egg hand grenade of the same weight, but the deciding factor in its introduction was its greater accuracy of aim. Thrown overhead, the rotation of the stick hand grenade stabilised the trajectory similar to that of a throwing axe or throwing knife.
The M2 was a defensive grenade. The m1924 was offensive. You used it during assaults, the tactics of which evolved in WWI, which was the German specialty. I'd say each have their advantages. Stick grenade was used similar to a flashbang, it was suppose to stun the enemy in their positions before an assault. The end of the stick grenade may even be political, much like how the Stalhelm was banned after the war--- but eventually the American's based their helmets on a similar design because it was simply a good design. Bring back the potato masher!!!
Id like to correct you that stalhelm was not banned after the war. Infact both German postwar nations used stalhelm when they reorganized their armed forces post war, West Germanys 1st armed forces, its borderguard used ww2 surplus Stalhelms and weapons and NVA of DDR adopted latewar Stalhelm M/45 prototype used in Battle of Berlin, redesigning the straps on the helmets and naming it Stalhelm M/56.
@@KoteDarasuum yeah, but that was more an ad hoc situation for border guards and police only. Also, firefighters had similar helmets. When Germany was re-armed, it was not with the Stalhelm. East Germany went with the gum drop helmet too. Although there was a lot more continuity of dress in East Germany. Clearly, it was political. Germany was a nation dominated by the USA. And is still occupied by the USA to this day.
@@landofthesilverpath5823 The choice of the US M1 over the outdated german design was availability and price. The M1 steel part was mass produced already and easily imported. Lines for old german pisspot otoh had been re-purposed for useful things. So it was cheaper to buy the US steel part and add a german designed inner part (The US steel helmetcand the postwar german one have different inserts)
Say that to china and Vietnam who used it for both offensive and defensive ; stick grenade was used by both side in sino Vietnam war and china still used it till this day cause they made so many of them during cold war
@@jerryle379 You can use them any way you want, but they were designed to be optimal for assaults-- which they are. Doesn't mean they won't be used defensively when needed.
The Swiss Army had a stick grenade up to the mid 1990s. HG43 was rather more powerful in sense of explosive weight holding about 300 grams of TNT and had two different shrapnel belts, one was a simple strip of metal would around the esplosive change, the other more like a chocolate bar around the same. The grenade had two different uses, defensive and offensive. Defensive was with "splittermantel" on while offensive without the shrapnel coat and used mainly as concussion grenade. A normal soldier could, without much training, throw up to 20 metres, good throwers reached 35 to 40 metres. Further than that there was no real purpose as the fuse would detonate prior to the grenade reaching the ground.
the most common grenade used by germany in WW2 were the german egg grenade they had different fuse types that could be used for setting traps and were EZ to mass production, but less used stick grenades were iconic in old black and white movies.
Once again, I really enjoy how you pick apart certain aspects of many of my favorite war movies/films. I always find myself nodding in agreement to your commentary. Suggestion for a possible future video: How about an overview of war films that feature the use of the cheap-to-reproduce, sometimes-faulty, but generally quite deadly Sten Gun? A few films that come to mind instantly are Anthropoid (assassination of Heydrich in Prague scene with a faulty Sten) and Allied (assassination of German diplomat during a party with two deadly Stens working just fine) and The Bridge On The River Kwai (where the bridge demolition team are all armed with Stens). Just a thought... Love your stuff! Keep them coming!
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq Yes, I recall reading about equipment drops made by the British to the French Resistance that often included Sten guns, among other things. And, if I am recalling correctly, I believe that the British SOE trained all of its operatives primarily using the Sten. 😀
It's always the beginning hypothesis that gets me. Private Ryan Princeton no way they would know who died at Normandy the same day. I think it would be weeks before the casualty names made it back to Washington DC
And the same with Memphis Belle that went on a milk run on their 25th mission. Dropping propaganda pamphlets. But I enjoyed both. Being an old tanker I thought Fury was right on. .
AS A HAVILDAR (SGT) IN THE SIGNALS DURING MY TRG PERION I HAV USED STEN GUN WHICH CAN TAKE 21 ROUNDS AND RELEASED INA JIFFY.QUITE HANDY AND FAST.NAGANATHAN.V.
The REAL reason for the difference in grenades is... sports. Americans grew up playing "arm" sports like baseball and football, using your arm to throw stuff. The German youth grew up playing "non-arm" sports like soccer and track, so their arm throwing strength wasn't developed like the Americans was. So it would be easier for them to lob something with a stick attached to it, and it would go further than if they threw a baseball-like object. This is the real reason most people overlook, it goes back to the culture of the society using the weapon
I heard somewhere that American troops also naturally favored the ball shaped pineapple nades due to their similarity with baseballs. Many soldiers could throw them more accurately and into tight spots as well. Idk if I heard right or that was just a meme.
Leave it to an American to not even spell "Calvary". If you take pride in massacring innocent Vietnamese you should know how to spell your division. Fucking liar.
(May have been previously mentioned) The MK II was specifically designed to be around the size & weight of a baseball (not necessarily the same shape, but you get the idea). The reason obviously is that most American men in those days had at least thrown a baseball as a kid. Therefore it was much easier to train the military on how to throw a grenade.
The problem with the stick is once its string is pulled thats it bang in 4 seconds A UK Mills or US grenade only starts the fuse once released from the hand so put the pin back in and its safe again or re position yourself before throwing is possible .
After being taught to whip apples with a stick as a kid,I would think the Germans had a throwing distance advantage with the stick grenade. You can launch apples forever with a green stick.
The British had the No. 73 grenade which was known as the "Thermos Grenade" because of it's similarity to a Thermos flask and the double cylinder, Nos. 8 and No. 9 hand grenades, also known as the "jam tins", a
My father always referred to hand grenades as Mills bombs. The various marks bore a superficial resemblance to the US Mk2. The grooves, by the way, were there to improve grip as it was found that the casing did not fracture along the grooving.
Imagine having a reflex that is fast enough to determine whether you should run away from a grenade or throw it back, within 1 second. I will probably hesitate like an idiot and die from the explosion
Also one big reason the American military made their grenades the way they did is because... It also closely resembled the size and weight of a baseball and they figure a lot of the Americans going to war were familiar with throwing a baseball. Therefore throwing that grenade would be easier.
My understanding, high explosive (low frag) grenades were meant for offensive as they were less likely to injure the thrower who was advancing. Frag grenades were meant to be defensive, where thrower could take cover.
Also, allied pineapple grenades could be used in a rifle barrel mounted grenade launcher to overcome the lack of range issue. I don't believe the German stick grenade was capable of this.
I once had an interesting debate with someone as to whether a stick grenade was a hand grenade. The conclusion that we came to, was that while all stick grenades are hand grenades, not all hand grenades are stick grenades. My greatest takeaway however, was that I learn a lot more from someone who disagrees than from someone who does not.
My favorite thing about the stick grenade (and it’s only in a hand full of movies I’ve seen) is the twirling sound it makes when thrown. Don’t know if it’s realistic or not but it’s absolute ear candy for me
Steilhandgrenade is not for fragmentation but it uses the air shockwave to pop you lungs once you are withing radius. Doesn't need to jam you with shrapnel to kill you. Stick grenades are made for offence
The movie Jojo Rabbit is Epic but that scene where Woody Harrison in The Thin Red line notices he grabbed the wrong part of the grenade then protects his comrades from his mistake by jumping out the way to protect them. Well that is the way I want to be. We all Fuck it up sometimes but this shows it's OK if you own it and take the hit for your mistake. Hero's are Born, They also are made from their mistakes.
I did and the second I pulled the pin my sergeant screamed at me to lob it. Rightfully so as it went off couple of seconds later, but they seemed like years to me.
The Germans made variants with a zero time delay, these were intended for use in booby traps. As I recall they had a different colored bead on the igniter cord. Some allied troops not familiar with the difference tried to use them as ordinary hand grenades and blew themselves up with them. Eventually troops were discouraged from using captured German grenades.
@@WalkaCrookedLine Same with the m39 egg. they produced specific fuses which were differently coloured for the explicit purpose of leaving them behind in abandoned positions for the allied soldiers to pick up. I think the regular fuse was a 4-5 second delay and the boobytrap one was a .5 second fuse. yowch.
Nice video, I interesting comparison. I'll take two dozen of the American design- just kidding. The pineapple design would be much preferable based on the info shared here from what I see.
Honourable mention to another type of grenade, the Italians had ones called "red devils" that would detonate on impact which could be good if they hit a solid target, but if they hit soft dirt, they could fail to go off, and the allies could throw them back at the Italian soldiers.
Allright, lets expand then. The pineapple-style handgrenade was used in ww1 by the British and commonwealth forces, well before the US entered the war. This was the famous "Mills' bomb" Hand grenades were a very widely used and important weapon in the later stages of ww1, especially on the heavily fortified western front. This was often the most effective weapon avaliable to the infantry. The war that quickly devoved into stagnant trench warfare came with some very special challenges. The muddy battlefield conditions made rifles unreliable. A rifleman could often not even take aim without exposing himself to enemy snipers and machine guns. The ground was chewed up by so much artillery, that it looked like a lunar landscape, full of craters within craters, and advancing through that landscape meant a combination of belly-crawling and sprinting, before diving in to the next shelter. In these circumstances, a rifle is almost useless, because you are not going to see the enemy until you are basically up in his face, in wich case the enemy will grab hold of your rifle before you manage to take aim. Grenades on the other hand, were very effective when assaulting a shell-hole, trench or bunker held by the enemy. The german "stormtroopers" of the late war often omitted rifles alltogether when going on trench raids. Instead they carried big bags or satchels full of grenades, combined with hand-to-hand weapons like knives, clubs or knuckle-dusters. Pistols or revolvers were not commonly used by enlisted men, if they didn't have the fortune to capture one from an enemy officer. Sub-machine guns were only introduced at the very end of the war and not in very large numbers. I read somewhere that the Germans preferred the stick grenade because they don't generally have the same cultural training in throwing a ball. British and American soldiers have played baseball or cricket since they were kids, and thus have some basic skill when it comes to throwing. Germany doesn't have an equivalent sport, at least not as wide spread as baseball or cricket, so they haven't got that same cultural skillset.
Might as well add both Mills and french F-1s were provided to US troops during WW1 which prompted the US to produce their own pineapple handgrenade taking cues from both existing models. (No idea if they got provided with leftover Fougs)
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq No sh*t if I we're to make a movie with those 2 grenades, I'll make sure to make the Mk. 2 Grenade to have brick gravity as a joke if I want to show that Holywood is just biased.
Stick grenades were also used for booby traps, because they could be rigged up with an instant fuse. I read lots of stories of Allied forces who watched their buddies blown apart because they moved a painting, lifted debris, moved a dead body, etc. Especially if they used a bundle charge with instant fuse.
"During the 39'-40' winter, I trainned so hard to use handgrenade that I dreamt about it for months" A german soldier. "Mr Handgrenade is your friend" well known quote.
The first quote is actually really true. The polish campaign of 1939, generally seen as a "major successfull operation", was an utter shitshow for the germans. A lot didnt even remotely go as planned and their units generally performed rather poorly, especially the infantery. (For context germany lost 1/4 of its tanks in 1 MONTHS of combat against Poland and basically used up 80% of its pre war ammo reserves.) As a result of this the german army basically went on a hardcore training program throguhout the winter 1939-1940 (they new they had the initiative and had the time to do that do to the allies having a solely defensive and reactionary strategy so far). The increase in performance was immidiatly noticeable during the french campaign in a far better performance of german troops compared to the Poland campaign. The Poland campaign was basically a very strong awakening call for the german army that their army wasnt as good as expected (they expected their army to be as good as the imperial german army from 1914.....it was more like a 1918 shitshow).
You forgot a very major difference and aspect of the German grenades. The German Grenades shipped WITHOUT the fuse installed. The early war versions specifically had a warning painted reminding to install the fuse. The stick had to be unscrewed from the head and fuse inserted. Late war versions did not have the reminder and likely is the cause of many grenades being thrown and failing to detonate. That little warning being deleted saved many allied lives.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
M1 Garand on film: ruclips.net/video/V3IV7ws5zFM/видео.html
It was my impression that the German one had a cast iron "crown" that could be fixed around the head of the grenade prior to use, or maybe it was the Chinese version. Am I correct?
Also, I believe that the Germans, while retreating from the Allies, during urban warfare, would hang their stick grenades from a wall that the allied soldiers would have to climb, and in poor lighting or under ivy cover, hang their stick grenades by the pull chords, and Allied casuaties would result when the climbing soldier grasped a grenade or its stick.
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What movie is @0:38
That cut from JoJo rabbit to saving private Ryan was good
Gotta throw that shit back at a kid to set the movie in motion
Oh yes US army
"How many Hitler Youth Nazi kids do you want to kill, Mellish?"
"YES."
Indeed it was very good
Jo Jo your life is calling 📞
There‘s a difference in offensive and defensive grenades. In general, offensive grenades have no or only a small amount of splinters, since its purpose is to force the enemy behind cover and when you charge or flank etc. you dont want shrapnel flying around. A defensive grenade has LOTS of shrapnel , since you are behind cover and are trying to kill the enemy who advances.
The M24 was for attacking. When you try to push through an enemy formation, so the core strategy of blitzkrieg, that grenade was good. Defensively its was to less lethal. No shrapnel and you have less lethal radius. Hope i helped clarify and if you have comments or further knowledge, pls feel free
"core strategy of blitzkrieg"
Its called manouver warfare. There never was a "strategy" called Blitzkrieg. Its a wartime myth created by the british press to explain the allies quick defeat in France. The germans basically learned about their supposed wonder strategy (which they had done for close to 200 years at this point) through the BBC and just rolled with the name later on because it had great propaganda value of beeing the guys with the "super strategy to defeat all enemies".
The basic of quick initial offensives to eliminate enemy forces near the broder and destroy them, then exploit this to quickly seize the backland, was already used by Prussia in the 7 years war (the invasion of saxony to quickly eliminate an austrian ally before the inevitable war would start so they couldnt join forces), the austrian-prussian war of 1866 (rushing all prussian forces into austrian bohemia and drawing the still assembling austrians into a decisive battle immidiatly. The war was decided after one battle), the franco-prussian war (rushing the french army in elsass-lorraine and splitting it up into different smaller forces that get encircled in border towns and local fortresses (Metz, Sedan), destroying basically all pre war french armies within a months of the war and then marching basically undisturbed to Paris and besiege it), the first World War (The plan was to quickly rush throguh Belgium outflanking the french army, seize Paris (and northern Frances industry) so France would be incapable of continuing the war, also opening the possibility to entrap the entire french army at the french-german border - the plan failed but was as far as strategy went the same thing the germans did in WW2) and then WW2 in France (Rushing through Belgium to outflank the allied forces at the border, destroy them in short succession as fast as possible and then quickly occupy the rest of France before France can rebuild its armies.
Its a classic short war strategy of putting all your ressources in basically an early rush strategy. Nothing new of fancy (only compared to trench warfare). The "Blitzkrieg" strategy was the norm of european warfare for centuries while WW1 trench warfare was the exception. The germans didnt invent a new strategy, they went back to the old one and made adjustmeants for the new technology like every nation the centuries before them.
Correct.There was the option to add shrapnells with the "Splittermantel" on M24.
Dude the m24 has almost 3x the explosive filler (155g vs 52g or 66g). It also produced rather larger shrapnel from the case and the surounding area. All in all the Stielhandgranate was quite a bit more deadly then the pineapple. the m2 was more convenient to carry though and thats it.
That would explain the scene from Band of Brothers where Joe Toye gets blasted by 2 german grenades in the Brecourt trenches and survives without serious injuries. ("Fucking twice")
@@KillroyLP Yeah that was absolut BS. It eighter never happened or not as depicted.
The Germans also used a ton of the model 39 grenade. It was similar in size to the US pineapple grenade but was smooth on the outside.
I think the movies just love the iconic m24s. Just as they think every German tank is a Tiger 1 lol
And in typical German fashion they called it "Eihandgranate" what means Egg hand grenade". They also used it's earlier version the M17 "Eierhandgranate"* in the first world war and before that they had the ball shaped "M13-M15 "Kugelhandgranate" (ball hand granade) that also had surface grooves like the American M2.
*I don't know why the earlier version is called Eier (eggs) and the later Ei (egg).
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq I remember seeing the model 39 in a couple movies, most notably Downfall. It was featured in the suicide/familicide scene. But totally agree it almost never gets any screen time.
@@gepbalta Eierhandgranate vs. Eihandgranate: in this case, there are two ways in German to form the compound word, either with or without -er-. The infix -er-, despite looking like the plural suffix of Ei, doesn't actually mean anything but only serves to "glue" the two words together. Why and when such elements are needed in German is a question evading even professional linguists.
…….plus , the German M24 stick and M39 egg grenades also could be fitted with fragmentation sleeves to be used defensively. The only ( real ) movie that I can think of where a frag sleeve on a stick grenade ( actually an M43 stick grenade ) was showcased was the movie “Saints and Soldiers”. These are cool little videos, by the way !
Just gonna point out that a major advantage of a Mk-2 is it's controllability. Once you pull the pin, as long as you don't release the safty handle, you can hold onto it (theoretically) indefinitely. That means you can time your release.
It also meant that technically, you could put the pin back in if needed.
You couldn't really do that with the sticks. Once they were primed, they had to be thrown within a fairly short amount of time.
The Mk-2s were also more controllable. You could roll 'em easier. You could bounce/ricochet them easier. If a soldier was a good enough tosser, he could get it through smaller openings then a stick could go through.
In Vietnam, some helicopter pilots/crewmembers I know would pull the pins out of some M26A1 / M61 grenades (similar in size to the Mk-2s), then slide them into mason jars so that the safety handles were held in place. Then when they were flying over some enemy soldiers, they could drop the granade jars (or a crate of jars) on them. When the jars hit, the glass would break, & the safety handles would release, letting the grenades go boom.
Excellent added information my friend!
You're right, and the amount of time is seven seconds for germans ones
The german was a friction primer and mk 2 was chemical actuator
Sounds like a mini bomber raid
ive heard of booby traps using the pineapple grenade where vietnamese would stuff the grenade into a bamboo pole tight enough to depress the spoon, pull the pin and tie a tripwire to the grenade. the tripwire would go across a jungle path and when someone walked into it, it would pull the grenade out of the bamboo tube releasing the spoon.
How dare you call war veterans "tossers" show some respect
You should have mentioned that the German stick grenade was a concussion weapon, whereas the American pineapple grenade was a shrapnel weapon.
@@user-ft3jq5vi2l that wasnt late war. The germans already had those shrapnel coats in ww1. The stick grenade without a coat is an offensive grenade. That means that the soldiers who throw it dont realy need to be in cover but only far enough away of the grenade because it only damages with an explosion so its very usefull if your troops attack an enemy trench and are out in the open whereas the enemy is in cover so when they throw grenades and it doesnt land directly insode the trench you dont blast your own troops. If your troops are in a trench the shrapnel "coats" are put on for increased range to blast everything that is infront of the trench into oblivion while your own troops just take cover in their own trench
It's called offensive or defensive
The pineapple grenade could also be used with the adapter and special cartridge to be launched from an M1 or M1903 rifle.
There were specialized rifle grenades that looked like small mortar rounds, one of those can be seen being fired at the beginning of Saving Private Ryan during the Omaha Beach scene, but there was also an adapter that launched a regular pineapple grenade.
Also there was a difference related to sports people played. Both the British and the Americans played a sport - cricket and baseball - where people learnt how to throw a ball a considerable distance with good accuracy. The Germans didn't have similar sports. So the potato masher stick grenade was thought to be easier to throw by the Germans, while the British and Americans thought that egg shaped ball-sized grenades would be easier to throw.
@@AEB1066 not realy, yes they both played sports where balls are thrown that might have reduced training time by a small bit (if even that) but that doesnt make them interchangable. The stick grenade was by far not the only one the germans where using (they had very similar ball shaped grenades like the allies had) but the stick grenade is just the most iconic. The stick genade had the advantage of increased range ( because the lever is increased with the handle length) and that it doesnt roll away from where it landed easily. There might have been further advantages that arent normaly talked about (production cost, safety, modularity, . . . )
My father had a German stick grenade bounce off the heal of his boot in Italy and explode behind him. There is very little fragmentation but it did ring his bell. Luckily, his brother-in-law, ( my uncle) ran out and carried him to safety until his head cleared. They always released the spoon , counted to 3 before throwing their own grenade.
That’s because the German grenades shown here were basically stun grenades while the US model was for fragmentation. The intended use of the weapons is quite different. Germans also had pineapple type grenades.
Lucky for your dad to survive too.
Because your father have luck, if it was a stick grenade with shrapnel jacket I would be a other history
@Ross- A -Roni cooking grenades was, and still is, a very dangerous practice and it's forbidden in most cases, as the ignitor isn't always the same.
heel*
Woody Harrellson messed with the pin before he blew his ass off on Hill 210. The pin has two metal strips that are folded when the spoon is secured with the pin. Harrellson's character thought it would be easier to deploy if he did so but result was that the pin came out too quick before he could grasp it and it got caught on his belt. GIs were told never to fumble around with the safety pin but sometimes they ignored it when they thought it was necessary. Results varied.
A brother of mine did similar in training with a Smoke grenade. I'll never forget him running round flapping his arms screaming. His exposed skin was red for days after.
@@cockneyviking6299 Yikes!
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq honestly, it was one of the funniest things I ever saw in my service. We are taught never to hang grenades or mess with the pin until it's time to kablooey something, but idiot boy went all Hollywood. Hung the thing off his webbing, the spoon stuck, the pin caught on something and the rest is hilarious history.
Thank God it was just a smoke grenade
@@kyledunn6853 exactly. If it was a live L2a1 I wouldn't be here now, I think. It taught us a valuable lesson we would never forget and a topic of laughter to this day.
I think size is probably the ultimate determinator, stick grenade just takes up too much space which might work in a conventional mechanical warfare but in many of the (most of the post WWII wars) where infantry marching on foot were the mainstay, the ability to carry x+5 could outweigh any loss of accuracy
I dont think that is the main reason to be honest, the stick handgrenade could be way lighter if it was remodelled with a polymer stick i just think that it isnt as usefull anymore as back then because basically ever squad has a grenade launcher nowadays so the main improvement of the stick hand grenade is covered. Not to mention that the fuse of the M24 isnt as usefull anymore as back then when it was cheap, we have better cheaper fuses nowadays
I think the stick grenades can make a resurgence imo. While surely grenade launchers exist, but that's another weapon you need to carry and also you need to be the grenadier specialist to use them.
The stick grenade could be made with some good additions and design changes and I'm sure it would also be cheaper to make than grenade launchers.
@@ElkaPME it would be cheaper to make then grenade launchers but a grenade launcher has far more range then a stick grenade. You dont realy need a new specialist and complete new weapon with underbarrel grenade launchers and modern armies are tiny elite forces in comparison to the millions that where on the battlefield in ww2. A stick grenade still has a place in the world but just in 3rd world countries or civil wars in afrika i would say where every weapon counts
You could make telescopic plastic handles instead of fixed sticks. They wouldn't be as useful for Western armed force that have plenty of grenade launchers, but for a country like India I can see them being of use, in case of a total war.
And they were known as offensive grenades as they did not have much in terms of frag compared to the American grenades so a frag ring was put on sometimes for that effect hence more weight
You feel to mention how the German stick grenade was designed for concussion rather than fragmentation. Each grenade at its own advantages different environments
Was just going to point that out myself.
My father told me that Germans used the grenades to make you cover, then they would pin you down with machine gun fire and mortar the he'll out you.
But a cast iron sleeve could be applied easily to increase fragmentation.
@@828enigma6 this sort of construction is used in grenades issued in the modern German army as well
This difference is exaggerated imo. Germans and Americans mostly used grenades for the same reason. The main thought was to keep the enemy busy for a few seconds and maybe disorient. The MKII was more deadly, but not enough to change how it was used.
I feel the main reason the stick grenade faded from use wasnt the weight, but the distance of engament. Most modern fighting is room to room where the added leverage isnt worth the added weight. That, and it was a concussion grenade, not fragmentation without modification.
I would say no. Engagement distances between two near par conventional forces would be very long since both would have the capability to engage from 6 to 700 meters out with there machine guns and in the case of US pin them down at this distance and use air power to destroy them. But for standard rifle like the m4 effective range was up to 500 meters but you could still fire from longer distances. Overall I would say engament ranges have either stayed the same or gone up since the ww2 which was 200-400 meters. Now offcourse this is for conventional near pier forces offcourse for a war with insurgence its complety different and is extremely varied. Sometimes you will be doing cqb at less then 25 meters other times you hot a guy almost 700 out firing with an ak that has no hope of hitting anything haha. So it's hard to say. I think the biger factor that killed stick grenades was the advament of grenade launcher tech which gave troops much longer range then the smaller advantage that the stick gives while also being smaller so just better in every way. That I think is the bigger factor of why that dies after the war because it simply was outdated design once you could lob a smaller greneade 200 meters away with the same effect
..and so the germans faced their early war enemies in the field at a large distance which they cannot tresspass without being fired upon..hence stick grenades were the needed grenade.
considering that the stick grenade went away after ww2 and not "in modern times" i find the claim unlikely. in all likelihood the Germans were already going away from stick grenades during ww2. the development of Grenade launchers and mass development of other infantry support weapons took away the main advantages the stick grenade had.
One movie mk II grenade trope that should be mentioned: unless you’ve pre-straitened the pin, pulling a pin out with your teeth would likely result in a lot of ripped out teeth.
Well, everyone knows them because they are iconic . The m24 will be recognized by most as german and the mk2 as american. If a german soldier suddenly was seen throwing an m39 many people will at first glance wonder why. The model is less known which is a shame as it was paradoxically produced in larger numbers than the m24
There are two shown being used in an astonishing scene in "Der Untergang"
The german stick grenade also featured a splinter sleeve, but most stick grenades you'll see are the offensive grenades which need to have a limited blast radius and minimal schrapnel to prevent harming the person throwing it. The stick grenade and pineapple are suited for different roles and are both affective at what they're meant to do. The germans also made the egg grenade which features an easier pull cord and a round shape.
This is one of the most watchable military history etc channels. No ridiculous jingoistic nonsense. Nice work.
My favorite compliment yet! That's exactly my goal.
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq Oh that’s nice if you to say that. It’s a big problem with military history channels. I get quite disposed to with the attitude of both presenters and viewers. Your channel however, is relaxed, informative and has a lovely but subtle SOH. Some others….. jeez! “My whole family fought with Patton including my mum and baby sister and you’re WRONG!! Fact!!! He won the war completely by himself!!” That sort of thing.
So, basically, keep it up.
What I like about the Stielhandgranate:
•You can throw it further than every other grenade
•Looks cool
•Wonderful potato masher!
Though having it as a stick grenade makes sense for ease of throwing. It also makes sense why most armies go for grenades similar to the Mk 2s, since you very rarely have to hock a grenade the length of a battlefield anymore (which the stick handle allows you to do cos basic physics) , and is mostly more urban combat.
I can imagine the stick grenade missing as it hits the edge of a window or door due to the larger clearance needed for the stick.
@@hippoace yeah, plus would be a pain to throw around a corner or around the side of a slightly opened door, much more suited for long range engagements and anti tank purposes, which we don't really need anymore due to RPGs
@@hippoace Thats why the germans also had egg grenades similar to the US ones. THe stick grenade was primarily for offensive action and enemy suppression while the egg grenades were primarily for defense and CQC.
@@noobster4779 also, eihandgranate and stiehlhandgranate fuzes were interchangeable, so you didnt NEED a stick for the Stiehlhandgranate, amusingly.
and then they'd been easier to roll through a doorway ironically
That intro was great
You forgot to mention the fragmentation sleeve that fits over the German grenades when used for defensive purposes
American grenade goes BOOM
German grenade goes KlerBoom
I'm sure somebody already pointed it out. But I have to say that, the actual main differences between the two grenades is one killed you by fragmentation, the other killed you by concussive force.
The Mk2 could kill you by concussive force if the shrapnel was not on the way
The Stielhandgranate was a concussion grenade and was designed to be used in close assault where it could be thrown into a nearby enemy position right before a bayonet charge. The US Mk2 grenade was known to have an unpredictable shrapnel pattern where it could even send a piece of shrapnel a 100 yds away. I've read that US soldiers really had to keep their head well down when throwing it, while the Germans did not.
While the primary effect might be concussion, that steel head looks like fragments of it could wound and kill, not as a primary function but as an extra bonus.
I’d like to add that German stock grenades had a fragmentation “sleeve” that could be put over the end to give it a similar effect as an mk2
0:03 nice transition 😂
The acoustics in The Unknown Soldier are extraordinary.
I've heard that they used real explosions to make the scenes.
Yes real Kasapanos grenade
@@GannicusMisteriosdeHonduras ?
@@panzerivausfg4062 name of Finnish grenade is Kasapanos
@@GannicusMisteriosdeHonduras Oh ok.
Because i searched it on Google and the results where surnames in my native language.
Many surnames in my language goes like Karapanos, Kapasanos, Papadopoulos, Karamolegos etc
Now you know what to look out for. Be careful not to get one on your tracks Panzer IV.
Bruh, the perfect cut from JoJo Rabbit to Saving Private Ryan was clean
I just imagine that where ever grenades are thrown, somebody is having a blast
Germans: we have bombs on a stick!
Americans: we have angry pineapples
Few things, Germany used 2 types the stick was an offensive granate, the 2nd type was an egg shaped and being used defensive. There is no question that the spoon is a much better system, also you can carry more. One drawback the US and other armies had is using defensive (frag) only. The stick had few advantages so, you can toss it easily at 50m and is actually pretty accurate. The idea you can toss it back is movies, because you throw it in high arc and at 5sec it tend to explode at the end of travel.
German round "Eierhandgranate" were actually the most-used German hand grenades, before the stick grenades..
Audie Murphy, in his autobiography, recounts that he would put pieces of tape across his spoons in the event a pin accidentally came out.
He also developed the habit of running his hands over his grenades, after changing positions, to confirm that they still had their pins in.
He said that these habits once saved his life when he discovered that one of his grenades had it's pin dislodged after his running and diving for cover.
He was able to locate the pin and replace it in the grenade.
Source: To Hell and Back; Audie Murphy
Dick Winters taped the spoons on his grenades in Holland and when he led the assault on The Dike, he pulled the pins and tossed his grenades at the Germans on the other side, only to realize he forgot to break the tape.
Rangers, paratroopers, and other crafty soldiers figured out you could cut bicycle inner tubes and use them as a retention band on webbing. For grenades it had the added benefit of securing the spoon as well, and when you pulled the grenade out, it was ready to go.
I have to make a comment about those Finnish clips, those were not tied up granades. Finns made stachel charges for taking out tanks and fortifications . It had 2, 3 or 4 kilos of explosives, and it had German hand granade primer .
There is nothing to expand on. You said everything perfectly in just a few minutes. Well done sir! You taught people about WW2 grenades and you did so faster than it would take to find a target, pull and ready the grenade, and then deliver that grenade to the enemy. Well done! My kudos to you sir!
Thank you for the encouraging words 🙏
The German grenade is almost always called a Potato Masher in the movies I've seen.
German soldiers complained a bit about stick grenades. They realized that due to the stick ,it is sometimes very difficult or impossible to throw it through some small windows , like these tiny cellar windows they encountered in Poland. Stick grenades often broke a glass ,but bounce off anyway. That was problematic.
They also had egg grenades they coudl use for that. Its a myth that the germans only used stick grenades, they had two different grenades. In the offense on the countryside however (which is like 80% of warfare) the stick grenade is definitly an advantage. You can throw it basically lying down, it has a serious range benefit and most importantly: Its not a frag grenade that could harm your own troops during the assault. Its basically a stun grenade designed to force the defender into cover while the assault troops could advance. It was a weapon adapted to the new german infantery squad tactics that favoured offensive heavily and were basically the next stage of stormtrooper tactics.
Small windows are only a minor problem in that case :)
We talk about real life situations here. What is available in theory is not always provided in practice. Sometimes you are issued with offensive grenades while stick grenades with fragmentation sleeve or egg grenade would do much better. It may be due to logistical issue or due to a simple fact that it is not practical to carry 3 types of grenades on you for every possible scenario. So, If you happen to be in a defensive situation ,and all you have is box of stun grenades on stick ,you throw stun grenades on stick. There are pros and cons. Modern military does not use grenades on stick - that alone says something.
1:25 That was genuinely impressive, it took into account both the weight of the grenade as well as the shock wave after detonation. Brilliant!
I was reading a book I recently got on WWII Axis equipment and in it, they interestingly cover Italian grenades! They were called Red Devils and were impact grenades! Their shape was a small canister rather than oval or round shaped. They were painted a bright red. Unfortunately, they had a reputation of being rather unreliable, but they could also be used as landmines, with some modifications!
If I remember correctly, the US pineapple style grenade, had more of a shrapnel-fragmentation effect than the stick grenade (aka potato masher), which was more of a high explosive grenade with less fragmentation.
Bang on my friend
Yup stick was offensive blast grenade, pineapple defensive frag, with danger zone wider than could throw. Think there was frag sleeve for the m24 but ive not seen in ww2 pics
Yo I just have one question. How much time do you take to make one video like this one. Like so many edits, gathering informations, gathering scenes, filming etc. More than 4 hours at least right?
Honestly about 2 hours a minute from start to finish. Though I am slowly starting to get faster. Even just learning to edit took me a bit of time.
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq wow that's quick . i remember making a representation of human population on computer. it took me 7 hours bruh.
The American style hand grenade has an interesting history. During its development it was decided that it should be roughly the shape and weight of a baseball so that any good American boy could throw it with ease with very little training needed in that department of its use.
Always liked the grenade scene in Stalingrad (1993 version) especially the music in the background.
This comment made me deeply regret not adding that scene haha
The German design without the tape on the M2 frag one, was more safe, and needed less exposing trowing
One more advantage of the GERMAN stick grande: It was often used and liked by "The Others", but it was easy to remove the delay charge, before You left them, to be used by the enemy. There are a lot of pamphlets, of all allied armies, warning about this booby traps.
They simply unscrewed the handle and attached a smoke grenade handle which has almost no delay. When you pulled the cord, it went off in your hand.
Right, I read about these traps in an history book about Russian's front weapons & tacticts, seems that the germans had painted these grenades' bottom red, if they had to retreat from a position, they let some boxes as a bait, when the russians tried to use them....
Another trick was letting a pistol on a table, with under it a grenade connected with a wire.
@@fazole or Eihandgranate fuzes.
they had multiple ones, including a 1 sec delay fuze for booby trapping purposes
The stick grenade wasn't the grenade that was usally used. Germany used smaller grenades, like the allies.
Those were egg-shaped hand grenades.
I understood that hanging grenades off your jacket by the pin was a Korean War thing. The idea behind it was that by pulling the grenade off your jacket it was already armed and ready for use. The problem with this was quickly, and sometime fatally, revealed as the grenage could be knocked off by someone brushing passed you. You can imagine how many injuries and fatalities which occurred amongst soldiers because of the unexpected arrival of an explosive in their midst.
In a similar vein. There is this notion that if you hold on to a grenade for a couple of seconds it would reduce the time the enemy had to throw the grenade back. The problem with this is that the timing of the fuse was not a precise science. You may think you have seven seconds and you could hold on to it for three or four seconds before throwing it. But the timing it could easily be shorter than that. And if it is only actually have five seconds it could easily explode while you're holding it. This, of course, means that throwing it back is even more dangerous because the timer could be shorter than you think.
The name grenade comes from the fact that original grenade looked like a pomegranate. This dates from the mid 16th century and this was because it was a small round ball which looked like a pomegranate. The ball was hollow, filled with gunpowder and with a fuse in the top. Like a very small cannon ball in fact. The fuse would be lit using a slow match before it was thrown. The name pomegranate got shortened to grenade. which we still use today. The name pomegranate comes from the Medieval latin with pomme meaning apple and granate meaning grain. So grain of the apple. So when someone shouts grenade they are actually shouting is grain. And there is, of course, the pineapple, back to the pomme again.
And then there is 'Hot Potato.' This seems to come from the term 'dropped like a hot potato.' So once thrown you should leave it alone. And we are also back to apples again as the word come potato comes from apple of the earth.
So next time someone says that fruit, vegetables and grains are good for you you'll remember this.
Thank you professor. Nice speech.
Ok now what about lemonade?
Woody Harrelson's granade throw was Emy Award winning.
Another small thing is the design choice for both. When the Stickhandle grenade was invented Axe throwing was a common passtime in Europe, while the ball shaped American grenade was because Baseball was the common passtime in America. It's easier to throw something you're already familiar with
Cap
The Australian grenade was based on the boomerang of the Aboriginals....it was withdrawn.
I carried ten M-26 grenades and I threw ALL of them during a battle against the North Vietnamese (May 22, 1969).
I would have preferred the WWII "pineapple" grenades however the M-26 was sufficient in eliminating the enemy.
The question of the purpose of the stick has haunted me for half my life!
The stick grenade is a very old design that was developed around 1914 in the German Empire. They were never issued to every soldier in the beginning, but only to trained specialists called hand grenade throwers. The stick, a disadvantage in every other respect, did allow these specialists to throw this hand grenade slightly further than an egg hand grenade of the same weight, but the deciding factor in its introduction was its greater accuracy of aim. Thrown overhead, the rotation of the stick hand grenade stabilised the trajectory similar to that of a throwing axe or throwing knife.
If they are used for traps the stick can be very handy.
It is deffently more easy to place a trap with a wire, with the german models
The M2 was a defensive grenade. The m1924 was offensive. You used it during assaults, the tactics of which evolved in WWI, which was the German specialty. I'd say each have their advantages. Stick grenade was used similar to a flashbang, it was suppose to stun the enemy in their positions before an assault.
The end of the stick grenade may even be political, much like how the Stalhelm was banned after the war--- but eventually the American's based their helmets on a similar design because it was simply a good design.
Bring back the potato masher!!!
Id like to correct you that stalhelm was not banned after the war. Infact both German postwar nations used stalhelm when they reorganized their armed forces post war, West Germanys 1st armed forces, its borderguard used ww2 surplus Stalhelms and weapons and NVA of DDR adopted latewar Stalhelm M/45 prototype used in Battle of Berlin, redesigning the straps on the helmets and naming it Stalhelm M/56.
@@KoteDarasuum yeah, but that was more an ad hoc situation for border guards and police only. Also, firefighters had similar helmets.
When Germany was re-armed, it was not with the Stalhelm. East Germany went with the gum drop helmet too. Although there was a lot more continuity of dress in East Germany. Clearly, it was political. Germany was a nation dominated by the USA. And is still occupied by the USA to this day.
@@landofthesilverpath5823 The choice of the US M1 over the outdated german design was availability and price. The M1 steel part was mass produced already and easily imported. Lines for old german pisspot otoh had been re-purposed for useful things. So it was cheaper to buy the US steel part and add a german designed inner part (The US steel helmetcand the postwar german one have different inserts)
Say that to china and Vietnam who used it for both offensive and defensive ; stick grenade was used by both side in sino Vietnam war and china still used it till this day cause they made so many of them during cold war
@@jerryle379 You can use them any way you want, but they were designed to be optimal for assaults-- which they are. Doesn't mean they won't be used defensively when needed.
The Swiss Army had a stick grenade up to the mid 1990s.
HG43 was rather more powerful in sense of explosive weight holding about 300 grams of TNT and had two different shrapnel belts, one was a simple strip of metal would around the esplosive change, the other more like a chocolate bar around the same.
The grenade had two different uses, defensive and offensive.
Defensive was with "splittermantel" on while offensive without the shrapnel coat and used mainly as concussion grenade.
A normal soldier could, without much training, throw up to 20 metres, good throwers reached 35 to 40 metres.
Further than that there was no real purpose as the fuse would detonate prior to the grenade reaching the ground.
That's interesting. I didn't know this. Thank you for adding this info!
Actually, an air burst is more effective.
Yeah, I've thrown hundred of these HG43.
@@marcmonnerat4850 I maybe a few less
the most common grenade used by germany in WW2 were the german egg grenade they had different fuse types that could be used for setting traps and were EZ to mass production, but less used stick grenades were iconic in old black and white movies.
Once again, I really enjoy how you pick apart certain aspects of many of my favorite war movies/films. I always find myself nodding in agreement to your commentary. Suggestion for a possible future video: How about an overview of war films that feature the use of the cheap-to-reproduce, sometimes-faulty, but generally quite deadly Sten Gun? A few films that come to mind instantly are Anthropoid (assassination of Heydrich in Prague scene with a faulty Sten) and Allied (assassination of German diplomat during a party with two deadly Stens working just fine) and The Bridge On The River Kwai (where the bridge demolition team are all armed with Stens). Just a thought... Love your stuff! Keep them coming!
Thanks man! I love this idea. Cheap Lil gun got a lot of dirty work done supplied to resistance fighters all over Europe. I like it.
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq Yes, I recall reading about equipment drops made by the British to the French Resistance that often included Sten guns, among other things. And, if I am recalling correctly, I believe that the British SOE trained all of its operatives primarily using the Sten. 😀
It's always the beginning hypothesis that gets me. Private Ryan Princeton no way they would know who died at Normandy the same day. I think it would be weeks before the casualty names made it back to Washington DC
And the same with Memphis Belle that went on a milk run on their 25th mission. Dropping propaganda pamphlets. But I enjoyed both. Being an old tanker I thought Fury was right on. .
AS A HAVILDAR (SGT) IN THE SIGNALS DURING MY TRG PERION I HAV USED STEN GUN WHICH CAN TAKE 21 ROUNDS AND RELEASED INA JIFFY.QUITE HANDY AND FAST.NAGANATHAN.V.
The REAL reason for the difference in grenades is... sports. Americans grew up playing "arm" sports like baseball and football, using your arm to throw stuff. The German youth grew up playing "non-arm" sports like soccer and track, so their arm throwing strength wasn't developed like the Americans was. So it would be easier for them to lob something with a stick attached to it, and it would go further than if they threw a baseball-like object. This is the real reason most people overlook, it goes back to the culture of the society using the weapon
I heard somewhere that American troops also naturally favored the ball shaped pineapple nades due to their similarity with baseballs. Many soldiers could throw them more accurately and into tight spots as well.
Idk if I heard right or that was just a meme.
I read it somewhere too. Can't remember where.
in Vietnam we used the M-79 gernade launcher much more effective than the M-26. 4th div 10th calvery.
Leave it to an American to not even spell "Calvary". If you take pride in massacring innocent Vietnamese you should know how to spell your division. Fucking liar.
(May have been previously mentioned) The MK II was specifically designed to be around the size & weight of a baseball (not necessarily the same shape, but you get the idea). The reason obviously is that most American men in those days had at least thrown a baseball as a kid. Therefore it was much easier to train the military on how to throw a grenade.
The Germans have an another handgranate in ww2 called M39 (Eihandgranate)
The problem with the stick is once its string is pulled thats it bang in 4 seconds
A UK Mills or US grenade only starts the fuse once released from the hand so put the pin back in and its safe again or re position yourself before throwing is possible .
American grenades were also designed with young people in mind. What was a 1940’s young American man’s favorite sport? Baseball.
After being taught to whip apples with a stick as a kid,I would think the Germans had a throwing distance advantage with the stick grenade. You can launch apples forever with a green stick.
i once had a replica german grenade.
You gotta first unscrew the cap.
a deformed screw cap and it would be harder to uncap.
Not something I'd want to fumbling with in the heat of battle
There was at least one Allied stick grenade: the Sticky Bomb, an early British attempt at making a man-portable anti-tank weapon.
And God, that ended really bad
Gotta love how in the movies a returned grenade never goes off before completing the trip back to its owner.
The British had the No. 73 grenade which was known as the "Thermos Grenade" because of it's similarity to a Thermos flask and the double cylinder, Nos. 8 and No. 9 hand grenades, also known as the "jam tins", a
My father always referred to hand grenades as Mills bombs. The various marks bore a superficial resemblance to the US Mk2. The grooves, by the way, were there to improve grip as it was found that the casing did not fracture along the grooving.
Imagine having a reflex that is fast enough to determine whether you should run away from a grenade or throw it back, within 1 second.
I will probably hesitate like an idiot and die from the explosion
Also one big reason the American military made their grenades the way they did is because...
It also closely resembled the size and weight of a baseball and they figure a lot of the Americans going to war were familiar with throwing a baseball. Therefore throwing that grenade would be easier.
My understanding, high explosive (low frag) grenades were meant for offensive as they were less likely to injure the thrower who was advancing. Frag grenades were meant to be defensive, where thrower could take cover.
Also, allied pineapple grenades could be used in a rifle barrel mounted grenade launcher to overcome the lack of range issue. I don't believe the German stick grenade was capable of this.
1:56 my favourite war series ever especially the Carentan scene right there
I once had an interesting debate with someone as to whether a stick grenade was a hand grenade. The conclusion that we came to, was that while all stick grenades are hand grenades, not all hand grenades are stick grenades. My greatest takeaway however, was that I learn a lot more from someone who disagrees than from someone who does not.
That opening was gold❤
We've made field expedient stick grenades by taping sticks to grenades. Gives you another 10 meters on a really good huck.
My favorite thing about the stick grenade (and it’s only in a hand full of movies I’ve seen) is the twirling sound it makes when thrown. Don’t know if it’s realistic or not but it’s absolute ear candy for me
0:30 is called 1944 and that is Estonia war movie
Steilhandgrenade is not for fragmentation but it uses the air shockwave to pop you lungs once you are withing radius. Doesn't need to jam you with shrapnel to kill you. Stick grenades are made for offence
The scene from "The Untouchables" (1987) on the USA / Canadian border cottage ,also came to mind. But that was more the war against Al Capone.
The location of that scene is at Yellowstone Park.
2:00 If I'm not entirely mistaken the stick grenade was an offensive grenade meant to kill by explosion, not through fragmentation...
what's up mate. have you reduced the number of uploads?? Seeing less videos these days by you
Hey Bro. Just busy at work lately but expect more regular uploads in two more weeks :)
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq ok no problem :)). Best of luck with your work :))
@@randomdogwith3ginternetacc996 I will try to keep you entertained
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq no it's alright. don't compromise with your work bro :)
You can take a MK2 pull the pin place in a can and hook a trip wire and boom for whoever trips on the wire.
Also called "potatomasher" steelgranate could be trowh'n over 70 meters of the best frontpigs as me.
HL2 wood break sound (2:14)
0:11 Band of brothers
Holy shit, that opening edit tho... perfection!
The movie Jojo Rabbit is Epic but that scene where Woody Harrison in The Thin Red line notices he grabbed the wrong part of the grenade then protects his comrades from his mistake by jumping out the way to protect them. Well that is the way I want to be. We all Fuck it up sometimes but this shows it's OK if you own it and take the hit for your mistake. Hero's are Born, They also are made from their mistakes.
german grenades: *meant to be thrown*
a drunk scottish cyclops: “i’m gonna pretend i did’t hear that”
Has anyone here ever thrown a live, or practice grenade in training? DO NOT TRUST a 4-5 SECOND FUSE!
I did, and I have the "don't cook the death ball" rule written with laser on my brain next to the "keep the finger out of the bang switch" rule
I did and the second I pulled the pin my sergeant screamed at me to lob it. Rightfully so as it went off couple of seconds later, but they seemed like years to me.
The stick grenade also used by NVA and Vietcong during Vietnam war. This grenades was supplied by China.
The stick grenade is easy to rig as a mine by only extending the pull cord.
The Germans made variants with a zero time delay, these were intended for use in booby traps. As I recall they had a different colored bead on the igniter cord. Some allied troops not familiar with the difference tried to use them as ordinary hand grenades and blew themselves up with them. Eventually troops were discouraged from using captured German grenades.
@@WalkaCrookedLine Same with the m39 egg. they produced specific fuses which were differently coloured for the explicit purpose of leaving them behind in abandoned positions for the allied soldiers to pick up. I think the regular fuse was a 4-5 second delay and the boobytrap one was a .5 second fuse. yowch.
I find throwing the American grenade awkward and hard on the shoulder. Maybe there could be a sort of half German-half US grenade design?
i say if it go's boom it works
When we were kids watching WWII movies, we thought the Germans were throwing improvised beer bottle explosives lol!
Nice video, I interesting comparison. I'll take two dozen of the American design- just kidding. The pineapple design would be much preferable based on the info shared here from what I see.
Honourable mention to another type of grenade, the Italians had ones called "red devils" that would detonate on impact which could be good if they hit a solid target, but if they hit soft dirt, they could fail to go off, and the allies could throw them back at the Italian soldiers.
Allright, lets expand then.
The pineapple-style handgrenade was used in ww1 by the British and commonwealth forces, well before the US entered the war. This was the famous "Mills' bomb"
Hand grenades were a very widely used and important weapon in the later stages of ww1, especially on the heavily fortified western front. This was often the most effective weapon avaliable to the infantry. The war that quickly devoved into stagnant trench warfare came with some very special challenges.
The muddy battlefield conditions made rifles unreliable. A rifleman could often not even take aim without exposing himself to enemy snipers and machine guns. The ground was chewed up by so much artillery, that it looked like a lunar landscape, full of craters within craters, and advancing through that landscape meant a combination of belly-crawling and sprinting, before diving in to the next shelter. In these circumstances, a rifle is almost useless, because you are not going to see the enemy until you are basically up in his face, in wich case the enemy will grab hold of your rifle before you manage to take aim. Grenades on the other hand, were very effective when assaulting a shell-hole, trench or bunker held by the enemy.
The german "stormtroopers" of the late war often omitted rifles alltogether when going on trench raids. Instead they carried big bags or satchels full of grenades, combined with hand-to-hand weapons like knives, clubs or knuckle-dusters. Pistols or revolvers were not commonly used by enlisted men, if they didn't have the fortune to capture one from an enemy officer. Sub-machine guns were only introduced at the very end of the war and not in very large numbers.
I read somewhere that the Germans preferred the stick grenade because they don't generally have the same cultural training in throwing a ball. British and American soldiers have played baseball or cricket since they were kids, and thus have some basic skill when it comes to throwing. Germany doesn't have an equivalent sport, at least not as wide spread as baseball or cricket, so they haven't got that same cultural skillset.
Thanks for adding all this. Was just a quick video only touching the subject so this is appreciated.
Might as well add both Mills and french F-1s were provided to US troops during WW1 which prompted the US to produce their own pineapple handgrenade taking cues from both existing models. (No idea if they got provided with leftover Fougs)
Another lovely video!
German Stielhandgranate: Easy to actually throw
American Mk II: Easy to throw with plot armour and damage
Hollywood MkIIs usually have that extra punch lol
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq No sh*t if I we're to make a movie with those 2 grenades, I'll make sure to make the Mk. 2 Grenade to have brick gravity as a joke if I want to show that Holywood is just biased.
@@4thmonitorion731 lol might as well take the cheese all the way hey?
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq Yeah sure, Thats all my story, You can stop replying now.
@@4thmonitorion731 Nah gonna hit you with my other account too
Stick grenades were also used for booby traps, because they could be rigged up with an instant fuse.
I read lots of stories of Allied forces who watched their buddies blown apart because they moved a painting, lifted debris, moved a dead body, etc.
Especially if they used a bundle charge with instant fuse.
"During the 39'-40' winter, I trainned so hard to use handgrenade that I dreamt about it for months" A german soldier.
"Mr Handgrenade is your friend" well known quote.
Mr. Grenade is only your friend before the pin is pulled, then it's no one's friend.
The first quote is actually really true. The polish campaign of 1939, generally seen as a "major successfull operation", was an utter shitshow for the germans. A lot didnt even remotely go as planned and their units generally performed rather poorly, especially the infantery. (For context germany lost 1/4 of its tanks in 1 MONTHS of combat against Poland and basically used up 80% of its pre war ammo reserves.) As a result of this the german army basically went on a hardcore training program throguhout the winter 1939-1940 (they new they had the initiative and had the time to do that do to the allies having a solely defensive and reactionary strategy so far). The increase in performance was immidiatly noticeable during the french campaign in a far better performance of german troops compared to the Poland campaign. The Poland campaign was basically a very strong awakening call for the german army that their army wasnt as good as expected (they expected their army to be as good as the imperial german army from 1914.....it was more like a 1918 shitshow).
You forgot a very major difference and aspect of the German grenades. The German Grenades shipped WITHOUT the fuse installed. The early war versions specifically had a warning painted reminding to install the fuse. The stick had to be unscrewed from the head and fuse inserted. Late war versions did not have the reminder and likely is the cause of many grenades being thrown and failing to detonate. That little warning being deleted saved many allied lives.