Decreases power to idle, pulls back on the stick to maintain altitude and decrease airspeed and lowers one wing with aileron. This man is literally following the application of a wingdrop stall to the letter.
I used to allow more advanced students to keep about 50% power while maintining a full stall for about 10 seconds. The goal was to prevent the small airplane from spinning by using rudders only. It's a good introduction to seeing what the wing does when controlled with rudder only. It also builds muscle memory to correct the adverse yaw with rudder.
So true Jason!!! In a single engine aircraft, I always impress on my students, and myself, THE RIGHT HAND (throttle) is connected to your right foot. LEFT hand - right foot if you’re a CFI sitting in the right seat. 😊
Throttle means rudder. Especially as low speed, as P-factor is significant near the stall. (Down going propeller blade has very high angle of attack, the up going blade has essentially zero angle of attack, so all of the thrust is shifted to the down-going blade, and it yaws the aircraft involuntarily with power).
This is the reason why I am super careful when making pattern turns. In PA28, I make shallow turns and never go below 85kt. Power goes to idle only on final, after the runway has been made.
That works great...right up until the engine quits on base. Better to learn to fly landing patterns closer to the field so that you are in power off gliding range of the runway at any point. Steep turns aren't more dangerous than shallow turns as long as you maintain airspeed and coordination. Shallow bank (or zero bank), slow, and uncoordinated will put you in a spin just as quick or quicker than a steep bank angle. Some planes are actually harder to stall in a steep bank because of lack of elevator authority.
@@flyingconsultant Good! Glad to hear it. Too many pilots fly huge bomber patterns over unlandable terrain. There’s no plan b in that situation. We all find ourselves having to fly a pattern that takes us out of glide range at times but too many fly every pattern as if the engine is never going to quit. Oh, I guess I should have thought to say that I was assuming traffic patterns at non-tower airports.
You should absolutely be able to land by pulling back the throttle to idle on the downwind and use pitch and bank to maintain speed and land - especially in a PA28. If you aren’t comfortable doing that, I highly recommend going out with a CFI or seasoned pilot to show you how. Ironically, the last episode (or the one before that) of Aviation News Talk Podcast explains why shallow turns in the pattern are a really bad idea (listen to the episode for specifics). Coordinated turns are fine. But airspeed is life and the lesson here is don’t get slow and know your approx airspeed in the pattern.
I did some spin training in a Cub this summer and it was one of the best things I've done. It makes me a bit sad that it's not part of the PPL curriculum, because it really drives home why coordination is important and how quickly the airplane can recover once you stop abusing it. And it's not even that risky if done at altitude with a competent CFI and a utility category plane.
AoA. Thinking of the Ercoupe. Limited aft elevator travel to prevent stall. No stall, no spin. Fore/ aft stick position is telling you what your AoA is doing. ( ‘Stick and Rudder’…remember that book?) Yes, reducing power to idle, ‘tripping’ over the aileron, failing to compensate with rudder with power application all exacerbated the situation. I’m presenting this argument for discussion; having lost 4 colleagues to stall/ spin accidents over the years. All maneuvering at low altitude. ( Cessna 172, Cessna 185, Cessna 310 Piper T-1040) Correct me if I’m wrong, inviting discussion. I’m my opinion, we should all go out and ‘get the feel’ for the aircraft around the high AoA regime. Develop the muscle memory to recognize when the airplane is telling you it is close to departing. Develop the muscle memory ‘no more aft stick than this’ Period. Will this be enough to overcome your impulse to tighten up that turn when you are trying ‘the impossible’ turn back? Who knows.
^All valid points. Stick and rudder is a fantastic book! Also take notes: Airlines are rarely involved in stalls or spin accidents. They practice a certain doctrine that teaches stall avoidance more than skills operating at high angle of attack near stall. 1: They always maintain a certain multiple above stall. This is perhaps at least 1.1x stall at rotation for liftoff, and probably closer to 1.2xVS at all other times. Deviance is a matter of permanent record. And poor skills are rectified, or the pilot is removed from the cockpit. They operate conservatively, also. Airlines always climb straight ahead, rapidly, to a safe altitude of at least 5,000' before making any turns. Their last turn to final approach is also conducted at or above 5,000'. There are no turns or maneuvers permitted at low altitude. They are never below 10,000' unless in the vicinity of class-B/C airports. Their traffic pattern is designed for long (10mi) final approach. And they never bank or turn below 5,000' except for collision avoidance with other aircraft (or birds). Pilots are trained to maintain speed, and remain far from stalling. There are always two in the cockpit, and both the captain and FO are diligently aware of speed at all times. They have audible alerts that warn if speed has decayed too low. They also have mechanical stick-shakers and pushers that automatically push the nose down if AoA or speed reaches within several degrees or knots of stall. Most have auto-throttles these days, which maintain a set thrust setting and also intervene for low speed. GA airplanes and pilots can incorporate many of these principles. E.g. install or enable audible low speed alerts. Always climb to safe altitude before turning, and never maneuver at low altitudes. GA aircraft can be designed as You mention, like the ercoupe, to limit pilots ability to stall the wing. But this also means a slightly higher minimum speed (landing speed) and/or larger wing, more drag and weight. There are alternative methods such as preventing wing-drop with advanced aero design features, such as found on the Icon A-5.
Hey Jason, These type of instruction is what keep us safe and alive and it's a constant reminder to all of us to practice these and other maneuvers so we can fly safe and confident for the unexpected! Thanks
All pilots need actual spin training and experience whether or not the ACS demands it. A good way to fold this into your training with not much additional cost is to get that spin training simultaneously with your "tailwheel" endorsement. The more spins you practice, the better. It gets to being super fun, too!
That’s exactly how my spin training came about. When I went for my tailwheel endorsement the CFI found there was a major gap in what the FAA deemed required skills and what she deemed required skills. I learned more getting that endorsement than I did getting my private.
Goodness… I saw this video on the interwebs over the last few weeks but figured this was an engine failure that was intermittently coming back… he actually PUSHED the throttle forward to cause this! Good lord
I flew sailplanes before flying anything else. When you do stalls and spins in a glider you don’t have the luxury of a power in or out option. Your power is nose down or up along with spoilers in or out. You’re also taught to dance on them pedals the way you would in a taildragger. I think everybody should start there. I love your videos bro!! Like I’ve said before, a guy wearing a Corsair coming at ya on his gear can’t be all bad. I think I’m going to order me one! 🤠👍
Thing about having an engine: In recips, application of increased power makes you enter the spin more abruptly, excacerbates the spin, and you must reduce power to idle to 1) reduce the spinning moments and 2) avoid dangerous airspeeds during the recovery phase.
I thought for sure there was no way anyone in that plane could have survived going into a spin like that at such a low altitude!!! I'm glad to hear they both did! Must have had some serious injuries to deal with!
I’ve learned more about coordinated turns on the finer points than I ever learned in private pilot training. My instructor encouraged coordination but never explained the why.
tying right rudder to throttle is a great practice the best spin prevention is speed awareness. defining, placarding and briefing your min speed-and then not busting it-is the best way not to kill yourself
@@davefoord1259 AOA is great, but 90+% of GA aircraft don't have one, unfortunately. Airspeed is a very good proxy in most normal cases. Just don't get slow close to the ground, pretty simple.
Why in the world did he pull the power to idle at the beginning of the event. What was he trying to do/demonstrate? Would love to hear what he was trying to do? Maybe a power off 180 back to the field ?
I was wondering the same, but why would you be practicing power offs if you don’t have a solid understanding of the fundamentals. Anyone trying power offs should already know to immediately pitch for Vg.
Excellent video. Going through my PPL in a 152 in stalls, pitch, power, roll correct left wing drop I never experienced a wing drop and I can't say I ever used right rudder. Now, in an SR22, she'll bite you badly if you don't go right rudder in power up. Think the '23 Duxford accident.
Good ol' Cessna. When I did CFI training in a Bonanza I only rarely was able to get a perfectly symmetrical stall. That is, one wing would always drop first.
Fly with fingertip light touch and let the nose drop on power reductions and in turns. Use power, light pressure and right rudder as the antidote to nose drops.
It should, that fear will keep you alive so long as you use it to motivate you to understand them. Always stay in coordination. Unless you are trying to slow down, never reduce power without a nose down attitude and certainly don't do it in a slow turn/bank without the aforementioned coordination or without being in an aerobatic aircraft with sufficient altitude.
At low speed and low power if I am turning I am also letting the nose come down. It’s just a reflex. I am never pulling in that configuration. It would just feel weird. Of course I am also not a bush pilot.
@@DanFrederiksen The first time in the video clip where the airspeed indicator comes into shot (above his left hand) it shows 90 km/h. That's 49 knots. Low end of the white arc is 70 km/h (38 knots). He most likely hast flaps out, but how much is unkown. Below his left hand is the slip indicator. As far as I can see the ball is pegged to the right during the whole clip.
@@Haniel93 That is what my point was! If the pilot was trained proper in the first play that would not have happened! We need to go back to full training!
The point is that he did not had a PPL license. That was an ultralight and for sure the training is not the same. Experienced pilots in Spain recommend to obtain first the PPL and then do the microlight license conversion, because the training received is sometimes really poor, and the video is a clear example.
@jhaedtler I know ultralight pilots that don't have a clear idea of what angle of attack is and what causes a stall. PPL requires 9 theoretical exams and at least 45h of flight before checkride (in Spain). ULM is just 1 exam and 15h before checkride. This may work for a 2 stroke quicksilver, but not for a Tecnam P92 with a 100HP Rotax like the one of the video.
Many airplanes do not have stall horns. There are however many other indicators this pilot was not trained to see them, but as I said in the video, he didn’t need indicators. He was literally putting in pro-spin inputs
Even without a stall horn, buffeting and mushy controls will be sure to let you know. Even missing that just understanding that maintaining altitude without thrust will slow you down and adding bank while doing so will simultaneously raise your stall speed. Everything this guy did was backwards.
One thing that I am surprised that is not commented on is clearly he doesn't have both feet on the rudders. His passenger had to leg swings into view in an attempt to hit the rudders. In my mind this is basic.
We have a crisis on our hands that by sheer luck is not being talked about loud enough. Too many unqualified instructors out there. All this talk about pilot shortages, which is pushed by these big fancy flight schools are partly to blame. Coupled with the fact that the level of intelligence of the average flight candidate is going down. Its just a result of modern technology and the fact that common sense has all but left mankind. Lets face it, no one changes the oil in their vehicle anymore. We need a idiot light onvthe dash to tell us when we have a low tire! The younger generations are great at video games, but this in no way translates into physically flying an airplane. Its not a game. Very few young instructors can actually explain how an internal combustion engine works. They know just enough to pass the written test but tgey dont understand it. I grew up flying on the farm in an old 172. 1500ft one way strip. I don't know how many hrs i had when i graduated high school and finally was able to go take formal flight lessons but i could fly the heck out of that bird. I wasn't use to radio communication so i definitely chose a local airport with a control tower. I had to fire my first two instructors. They were both fresh new cfi's that were terrified of demonstrating stalls. I couldn't believe these young kids were teaching! Now im not bashing all new young instructors, dont get me wrong but we have a serious flaw in our training syllabus. Why on earth do we not require spin training?! It makes no sense whatsoever. Its not possible to understand the feeling or the sight picture of an actual spin without doing it . Our pitiful attempt at showing what a stall is in todays training is absurd! Im afraid we are headed for a train wreck with accidents skyrocketing because i constantly see adds trying to convince young people that thwre is this massive shortage of pilots. This is not representative of the truth. It resembles more of a blatant scam to get students in debt for 100 grand. Really sad. So when people say" how in thw world does a certified pilot get in these predicaments "? I say how are we so lucky we don't have more!? We MUST shout from the rooftops for change in the way we train! Anyway, thank you Jason for your dedication and hard work. We need more voices from people with the platform to speak up about these deficiencies in flight training. Im passionate about aviation safety and again, i dont mean to say that all is bad .
Today young pilots are too obsessed with ForeFlight, and deficient in basic stick n rudder skills. But don't try to tell them that...cuz you're just a senile old man who ruined the world and they're smarter than you. :-/
This is ALL too common. Lack of basic "stick and rudder" skills. I am a retired physician and became a CFI. I have about 44 years of flying including backcountry, competition aerobatics and gliders. I only give tailwheel instruction and I have been appalled at the lack of basic flying skills with all levels of certificated pilots. It's incredibly frustrating to me and it's obvious why LOC-I in general aviation is the leading cause of fatalities. What more can I say! I do not have a solution for this ongoing problem. If you have not had upset-recovery and basic aerobatic training in light general aviation aircraft, you are inadequately trained! In addition, it must be done not just once, but on a recurrent basis. It can be moderately expensive, but how much is your life worth! Think about it. Flying light general aircraft is statistically risky. You need to minimize the risk to the best of your ability. Enough said.
You begin to introduce stalls in a benign and non-threatening manner by demonstration, with plenty of altitude, and a rock-solid attitude of confidence and skill. Spins, you'll introduce later after stall recovery is competent. In a ground lesson, you can remind the student that most paper airplanes stall and recover a couple times every time you launch it.
It looked like whoever was in the right seat tried to push the right rudder... a bit too late. I had some basic spin training. I didn't enjoy it one bit lol but it made me a better pilot.
Having learned to fly in the 70s from a crusty old WWII era instructor, I am appalled at the state of flight instruction today. Reading the accident reports makes me wonder how half the pilots flying today ever passed their check ride. It seems most today are “children of the magenta line” as American Airlines Captain Warren Vanderburgh coined and have little to no stick and rudder skills.
I think that auto pilot technology might be contributing to this, but the reality is Flight Instructor as a group haven’t done a great job with this almost ever. That isn’t to say that there haven’t been great fight instructors, but rather that they seem to be the exception and not the rule.
@@TheFinerPoints I used to be "the spin guy" at my flight school and it was always the funnest kind of flight. We always climbed to not less than 6,500 agl for those maneuvers and although we never needed that much altitude, I insist on it anyway.
Classic spin stall. How did this guy ever get his PPL ? Flight Instruction and Flight Instructors in Canada is and are Completely Different than what people get away with in the US, starting with the Minimum Age. All Maneuvers are illustrated in the class (on the ground) and again in the air prior to being shown a demonstration. Then when the Student is able to articulate what should happen and when are they trusted to attempt that maneuver. Furthermore, there are things that simply are not done at low altitudes. It seems to me that there are far too many, easily preventable Private Pilot accidents in the US.
Great, except Air Canada can’t find a fucking runway and has committed more errors than just about anyone can think of. What do you think of that question
I'm not a pilot, but when that engine rpm dropped, I'm thinking, "Lower the nose, lower the nose!!!" I thought he was having engine trouble, but to find out he did this on purpose, SMH SMH plus ample face-palming.
What do you think - would that situation still had been recoverable? Like if he wouldn't have put in power but pushed forward and hammered the right rudder down? They are quite low, so hard to tell if they would have still hit the ground? - Ok, if they don't do it, they hit the ground for sure. But where was maybe the tipping point? It is a miracle they got out of that unharmed. He then probably said: Good thing I was flying so slow already, made the impact less hard. Right? 😉
If you are an expert in recognizing an incipient stall, you can recover within 200 feet, but if you are an amateur you will need at least 500 feet in a trainer like Cessna 172.
Yes. Pilot would have had to pitch down, wings level, smoothly but promptly apply power and right rudder, and they might have resumed flight with a few feet to spare.
I fly this type of aircraft myself (Tecnam P92). This aircraft is quite forgiving, but there are limits. If he had pushed the stick forward at the same time as applying full throttle, he could have recovered. But he keeps pulling the stick towards him until the end.
My instructor showed me, in a 152, that if you go into a cross controlled stall in a turn you lose less altitude in the recovery if you keep the cross controlled stall going until you've done more of a "3/4 snap roll" and the plane has rolled all the way around than if you stop it as fast as possible and then try to recover from the 90+-degree bank. Not sure anyone would have the presence to try to do that in a real case if they weren't prepared for the stall in the first place, but it was a great demo of how to handle an airplane.
What? They weren't "okay", they both sustained massive amounts of serious injuries that will affect them both for the rest of their lives. This wasn't just some crash they just got up and walked out of 😂
Disappointed you didn't emphasize the forward stick pressure. Yes you mentioned it a couple of times but only at the end of the video. Would rather have heard it a dozen times because that is the most fundamental issue in all the mistakes that occurred - preventing the nose from exceeding the critical angle of attack. If that is allowed to happen, rudder is not going to save the day. Check the sequence in the FAA Handbook - reducing angle of attack is first.
@acirinelli that's not correct. He has (or at least had at the moment of the accident...) what in Spain is called ULM license (ultralight). Unlike the PPL, minimum flight time prior to the checkride is only 15h. Flying is limited only to day VFR conditions, only on class F and G airspace, avoiding overflight over populated areas, and limited to 10000ft AGL and 600kg MTOW. It recently changed because the limit has been for many years 1000ft AGL and 450kg MTOW on 2-seat airplanes.
@@gabimoreno9895 I, as the representative of physics, would like to apologize for the spin, I did not know that he was Spanish. Spanish air is different than Canadian air. My bad.
Couldn't really see what was going on in front of him during last turn. Was this a base to final turn spin? If not why is this person so low to the ground, there are clear structures on the ground so he should be at a minimum 500 feet AGL. In either situation there is no call for pulling power to idle. If he is landing he shouldn't be doing that til the runway is made, if he's not even landing he shouldn't be doing it at all at that altitude. You say you could fix this guy with a day or two, but I think that's a dubious proposition. Presumably this guy is already a PPL at the least or if he's a student then the other person should be a CFI, so there should be no need for any more training. The issue here is a clear case of most of the problems that plague humanity. You've got a person with a low IQ performing tasks that are beyond their mental capacities and no amount of training can fix them. I've always thought that part of the testing to receive a PPL should be a base IQ test. Memerizing rules and techniques for a week to pass the test shouldn't be enough. These people become a menace not only to themselves and their passengers, but innocent bystanders on the ground.
No, he's not a PPL. That is a ultralight. He was on the upwind leg for RWY36 after touch n' go on RWY09. He was not flying a standard pattern but doing dumb things as usual. This is the result.
All good stuff. The best thing is at the end when you said how it doesn’t matter what order you do things in. Some instructors want to hammer in a 1,2,3 “Procedure“ and make you repeat his “procedure“ in his order. All those things need to be automatic and be done together. Two steps, stop the spin, pull out.
Yah and it looks like he didn't have neutral ailerons either. Shoot...just letting go of the stick and kicking right rudder would be better. Opposite rudder of the spin ( rudder of resistance).
Sad but there were much less of these type accidents when tail draggers ruled. Then, a pilot really learned how to fly a plane and understand aerodynamics.
I’m so sorry these people think they are in a fighter jet or any sort of aircraft that has 1:1 thrust ratio lol. Even if u were in jet that low of altitude those afterburner isn’t goin to save u flat out of the floor board baby.
Don't be too confident in your assessment. Pilots with great training and lots of experience make egregious mistakes too. If you think you are immune to that, you are at greater risk.
Whether this guy could recognize a stall or not; it would not matter; you have to know how to AVOID a stall with energy/airspeed management. This guy didn't know ANYTHING about aerodynamics other than throttle makes you go up and down. You can't teach people how to recognize a stall without teaching wing aerodynamics and energy management first. This guy quit flying and said he'd never fly again and He said he had done this many times; probably something his flight instructor taught him in doing a tight pattern.
"I could fix these problems if I could work with this pilot..." normally I'd say yep, for sure. But with this guy (if you check out his channel) I'm thinking any lessons to be taught would be lost on him. Just all the wrong attitudes.
This video show,s a really poor explanation of a stall spin, the recover, the cause of the accident and is typical iof the crappy training students get today. I'll deal with just the entry. The Primary Cause of this "Wing Drop Stall , was the failure to lower the nose while adding power at the point of stall. It appears the pilot, realized his situation , added power but failed to lower the nose, Right rudder was required primarily for the wing drop not because he added power. Like most students today, they are not trained effectively in slow speed flight Most flight tests today are increasingly poor quality students. One primary cause is poor quality instruction and this video is a classic example.
This is one of the most excellent videos that can save lives.I'm glad you made people aware of this.
Decreases power to idle, pulls back on the stick to maintain altitude and decrease airspeed and lowers one wing with aileron. This man is literally following the application of a wingdrop stall to the letter.
He idled power until the spin developed, then he added power. He did everything wrong. Sadly.
He look like a full moron, is he an ultralight sports device handler ? He really dont look like a real pilot. Guess he clearly is not.
That’s fun….. at 5000 MSL
Im going to show all my students this video!
Use our Ground School app with them! You get it free, check it out. Visit CFI.Club
@@TheFinerPoints I do! They do! Thank you for all you do for us.
Phew! It's great that the pilot had the guts to post this so we can all learn.
Our hangar “take a shot “ game is to take one every time you say Lindbergh reference 😃
What do you do when he says Lindbergh?
@ exact same thing ha
I used to allow more advanced students to keep about 50% power while maintining a full stall for about 10 seconds. The goal was to prevent the small airplane from spinning by using rudders only. It's a good introduction to seeing what the wing does when controlled with rudder only. It also builds muscle memory to correct the adverse yaw with rudder.
Practicing these things at altitude is invaluable.
I always like to watch your basic flying skills you're providing out here. It is so valuable thank you 👍🛩
hand connected to foot-been teaching that for years! Great tip
So true Jason!!! In a single engine aircraft, I always impress on my students, and myself, THE RIGHT HAND (throttle) is connected to your right foot. LEFT hand - right foot if you’re a CFI sitting in the right seat. 😊
Both hands to the right foot or is that a typo ?
Throttle means rudder.
Especially as low speed, as P-factor is significant near the stall. (Down going propeller blade has very high angle of attack, the up going blade has essentially zero angle of attack, so all of the thrust is shifted to the down-going blade, and it yaws the aircraft involuntarily with power).
This is the reason why I am super careful when making pattern turns. In PA28, I make shallow turns and never go below 85kt. Power goes to idle only on final, after the runway has been made.
That works great...right up until the engine quits on base. Better to learn to fly landing patterns closer to the field so that you are in power off gliding range of the runway at any point. Steep turns aren't more dangerous than shallow turns as long as you maintain airspeed and coordination. Shallow bank (or zero bank), slow, and uncoordinated will put you in a spin just as quick or quicker than a steep bank angle. Some planes are actually harder to stall in a steep bank because of lack of elevator authority.
@@berrywd I never said i was flying a wide pattern. I stay within the gliding range, unless I have to make adjustments, due to traffic.
So I have a question. If you only take shallow turns, what would you do if you blow past final on the base leg. Just add more left rudder?
@@flyingconsultant Good! Glad to hear it. Too many pilots fly huge bomber patterns over unlandable terrain. There’s no plan b in that situation. We all find ourselves having to fly a pattern that takes us out of glide range at times but too many fly every pattern as if the engine is never going to quit. Oh, I guess I should have thought to say that I was assuming traffic patterns at non-tower airports.
You should absolutely be able to land by pulling back the throttle to idle on the downwind and use pitch and bank to maintain speed and land - especially in a PA28. If you aren’t comfortable doing that, I highly recommend going out with a CFI or seasoned pilot to show you how. Ironically, the last episode (or the one before that) of Aviation News Talk Podcast explains why shallow turns in the pattern are a really bad idea (listen to the episode for specifics). Coordinated turns are fine. But airspeed is life and the lesson here is don’t get slow and know your approx airspeed in the pattern.
I did some spin training in a Cub this summer and it was one of the best things I've done. It makes me a bit sad that it's not part of the PPL curriculum, because it really drives home why coordination is important and how quickly the airplane can recover once you stop abusing it. And it's not even that risky if done at altitude with a competent CFI and a utility category plane.
It's part of the Ppl in Canada, I was shocked to learn that it wasn't in the states....
AoA. Thinking of the Ercoupe. Limited aft elevator travel to prevent stall. No stall, no spin. Fore/ aft stick position is telling you what your AoA is doing. ( ‘Stick and Rudder’…remember that book?) Yes, reducing power to idle, ‘tripping’ over the aileron, failing to compensate with rudder with power application all exacerbated the situation. I’m presenting this argument for discussion; having lost 4 colleagues to stall/ spin accidents over the years. All maneuvering at low altitude. ( Cessna 172, Cessna 185, Cessna 310 Piper T-1040) Correct me if I’m wrong, inviting discussion. I’m my opinion, we should all go out and ‘get the feel’ for the aircraft around the high AoA regime. Develop the muscle memory to recognize when the airplane is telling you it is close to departing. Develop the muscle memory ‘no more aft stick than this’ Period. Will this be enough to overcome your impulse to tighten up that turn when you are trying ‘the impossible’ turn back? Who knows.
^All valid points.
Stick and rudder is a fantastic book!
Also take notes: Airlines are rarely involved in stalls or spin accidents. They practice a certain doctrine that teaches stall avoidance more than skills operating at high angle of attack near stall.
1: They always maintain a certain multiple above stall. This is perhaps at least 1.1x stall at rotation for liftoff, and probably closer to 1.2xVS at all other times. Deviance is a matter of permanent record. And poor skills are rectified, or the pilot is removed from the cockpit.
They operate conservatively, also. Airlines always climb straight ahead, rapidly, to a safe altitude of at least 5,000' before making any turns. Their last turn to final approach is also conducted at or above 5,000'. There are no turns or maneuvers permitted at low altitude. They are never below 10,000' unless in the vicinity of class-B/C airports. Their traffic pattern is designed for long (10mi) final approach. And they never bank or turn below 5,000' except for collision avoidance with other aircraft (or birds).
Pilots are trained to maintain speed, and remain far from stalling. There are always two in the cockpit, and both the captain and FO are diligently aware of speed at all times. They have audible alerts that warn if speed has decayed too low. They also have mechanical stick-shakers and pushers that automatically push the nose down if AoA or speed reaches within several degrees or knots of stall. Most have auto-throttles these days, which maintain a set thrust setting and also intervene for low speed.
GA airplanes and pilots can incorporate many of these principles. E.g. install or enable audible low speed alerts. Always climb to safe altitude before turning, and never maneuver at low altitudes.
GA aircraft can be designed as You mention, like the ercoupe, to limit pilots ability to stall the wing.
But this also means a slightly higher minimum speed (landing speed) and/or larger wing, more drag and weight. There are alternative methods such as preventing wing-drop with advanced aero design features, such as found on the Icon A-5.
Hey Jason, These type of instruction is what keep us safe and alive and it's a constant reminder to all of us to practice these and other maneuvers so we can fly safe and confident for the unexpected! Thanks
Excellent review of a situation.
Thx Jason for this look into stall prevention...
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
A very valuable discussion, we should all take spin training.
All pilots need actual spin training and experience whether or not the ACS demands it. A good way to fold this into your training with not much additional cost is to get that spin training simultaneously with your "tailwheel" endorsement. The more spins you practice, the better. It gets to being super fun, too!
That’s exactly how my spin training came about. When I went for my tailwheel endorsement the CFI found there was a major gap in what the FAA deemed required skills and what she deemed required skills. I learned more getting that endorsement than I did getting my private.
Love you brother. Awesome video. God Bless and Merry Christmas to you and your family Jason !!
Thanks! Merry Christmas to you and yours too!
I never go below 1.4 times stall speed and 30 degrees of bank when low to the ground! Ever.
1.4 x Stall speed. Yes!! Do not go below.
What is your increased stall speed at 30 degrees of bank? ie from load factor at 30 degrees. 1.4 seems still pretty close.
DMMS for the win! You will live to see another day.
1.181. It's 1.41 @ 60 degrees Bank..
Goodness… I saw this video on the interwebs over the last few weeks but figured this was an engine failure that was intermittently coming back… he actually PUSHED the throttle forward to cause this! Good lord
Great video. Appreciate your professionalism
Thanks as always sir!
Also, when you put the aileron down you don't just increase the drag but also the AoA...therefore you just put the lower wing closer to a stall.
Fantastic video thankyou Jason!
My pleasure!
I flew sailplanes before flying anything else. When you do stalls and spins in a glider you don’t have the luxury of a power in or out option. Your power is nose down or up along with spoilers in or out. You’re also taught to dance on them pedals the way you would in a taildragger. I think everybody should start there. I love your videos bro!! Like I’ve said before, a guy wearing a Corsair coming at ya on his gear can’t be all bad. I think I’m going to order me one! 🤠👍
Thing about having an engine: In recips, application of increased power makes you enter the spin more abruptly, excacerbates the spin, and you must reduce power to idle to 1) reduce the spinning moments and 2) avoid dangerous airspeeds during the recovery phase.
Thanks you, sir!
I thought for sure there was no way anyone in that plane could have survived going into a spin like that at such a low altitude!!! I'm glad to hear they both did! Must have had some serious injuries to deal with!
I’ve learned more about coordinated turns on the finer points than I ever learned in private pilot training. My instructor encouraged coordination but never explained the why.
Good review Jason!
tying right rudder to throttle is a great practice
the best spin prevention is speed awareness. defining, placarding and briefing your min speed-and then not busting it-is the best way not to kill yourself
Mate forget speed. Aoa alone causes stall. Aoa is directly related to stick position. Regardless of anything else.
@@davefoord1259 AOA is great, but 90+% of GA aircraft don't have one, unfortunately. Airspeed is a very good proxy in most normal cases. Just don't get slow close to the ground, pretty simple.
@@dermick are you familiar with stall stick position?
@@dermick every aircraft has one!
Why in the world did he pull the power to idle at the beginning of the event. What was he trying to do/demonstrate? Would love to hear what he was trying to do? Maybe a power off 180 back to the field ?
I was wondering the same, but why would you be practicing power offs if you don’t have a solid understanding of the fundamentals. Anyone trying power offs should already know to immediately pitch for Vg.
Excellent video. Going through my PPL in a 152 in stalls, pitch, power, roll correct left wing drop I never experienced a wing drop and I can't say I ever used right rudder. Now, in an SR22, she'll bite you badly if you don't go right rudder in power up. Think the '23 Duxford accident.
Good ol' Cessna. When I did CFI training in a Bonanza I only rarely was able to get a perfectly symmetrical stall. That is, one wing would always drop first.
Fly with fingertip light touch and let the nose drop on power reductions and in turns. Use power, light pressure and right rudder as the antidote to nose drops.
Jason, you're one of extremely few CFI-I instructors with HELPFUL "how to" videos.
Thanks!
As a PPL student accidental spins scare me most. Thanks for this. I'll watch this every day going to sleep :p
It should, that fear will keep you alive so long as you use it to motivate you to understand them. Always stay in coordination. Unless you are trying to slow down, never reduce power without a nose down attitude and certainly don't do it in a slow turn/bank without the aforementioned coordination or without being in an aerobatic aircraft with sufficient altitude.
I can't access the CFI club because the app is no available on android device. Any other option?
It's not always RIGHT rudder. I had shares in a dH Chipmunk and a Yak52 - LEFT rudder with power on those!
He’s holding the stick like a spade !!
Where can I find the original video, I want to see the impact?
I like telling my students to step on the high wing when we get that wing drop.
Yeah that's one heck of a miracle.
Send all you can 🇺🇸
Thinning the herd, some people have no business getting in a aircraft! This guy is one of them!
One of your first "motor skill" reactions to a stall is POWER=IDLE (on a C172).
At low speed and low power if I am turning I am also letting the nose come down. It’s just a reflex. I am never pulling in that configuration. It would just feel weird. Of course I am also not a bush pilot.
pitch= speed and power = altitude we can bank all we want as long as we don't pull that yoke and accept lost altitude.
Did i see he didnt have his right foot on the rudder pedals at all? It was on the floor??
Stall is not your friend. How low was the airspeed?
Stall speed increases with bank angle.
@@erickborling1302 sure, still like to know what it was
@@DanFrederiksen The first time in the video clip where the airspeed indicator comes into shot (above his left hand) it shows 90 km/h. That's 49 knots. Low end of the white arc is 70 km/h (38 knots). He most likely hast flaps out, but how much is unkown. Below his left hand is the slip indicator. As far as I can see the ball is pegged to the right during the whole clip.
@@stevenscholte7153 so he's slipping and flapping and stalling and high banking. solid combo :)
Also we need to put full stall spin recovery in the private Pilot check ride!
But in the video it is too low (and so late) for recovery anyway. Only safe option would have been to prevent the stall/spin in the first place.
@@Haniel93 That is what my point was! If the pilot was trained proper in the first play that would not have happened! We need to go back to full training!
The point is that he did not had a PPL license. That was an ultralight and for sure the training is not the same. Experienced pilots in Spain recommend to obtain first the PPL and then do the microlight license conversion, because the training received is sometimes really poor, and the video is a clear example.
@@gabimoreno9895 Come on! Training is training! I don't care if its airplanes or Simi trucks!
@jhaedtler I know ultralight pilots that don't have a clear idea of what angle of attack is and what causes a stall. PPL requires 9 theoretical exams and at least 45h of flight before checkride (in Spain). ULM is just 1 exam and 15h before checkride. This may work for a 2 stroke quicksilver, but not for a Tecnam P92 with a 100HP Rotax like the one of the video.
Never fall in love with the rudder.
Dude the number one was pulling on the stick. Stick position causes aoa that causes stall..
Why there was no stall horn ?
Many airplanes do not have stall horns. There are however many other indicators this pilot was not trained to see them, but as I said in the video, he didn’t need indicators. He was literally putting in pro-spin inputs
Even without a stall horn, buffeting and mushy controls will be sure to let you know.
Even missing that just understanding that maintaining altitude without thrust will slow you down and adding bank while doing so will simultaneously raise your stall speed.
Everything this guy did was backwards.
One thing that I am surprised that is not commented on is clearly he doesn't have both feet on the rudders. His passenger had to leg swings into view in an attempt to hit the rudders. In my mind this is basic.
We have a crisis on our hands that by sheer luck is not being talked about loud enough. Too many unqualified instructors out there. All this talk about pilot shortages, which is pushed by these big fancy flight schools are partly to blame. Coupled with the fact that the level of intelligence of the average flight candidate is going down. Its just a result of modern technology and the fact that common sense has all but left mankind. Lets face it, no one changes the oil in their vehicle anymore. We need a idiot light onvthe dash to tell us when we have a low tire! The younger generations are great at video games, but this in no way translates into physically flying an airplane. Its not a game. Very few young instructors can actually explain how an internal combustion engine works. They know just enough to pass the written test but tgey dont understand it. I grew up flying on the farm in an old 172. 1500ft one way strip. I don't know how many hrs i had when i graduated high school and finally was able to go take formal flight lessons but i could fly the heck out of that bird. I wasn't use to radio communication so i definitely chose a local airport with a control tower. I had to fire my first two instructors. They were both fresh new cfi's that were terrified of demonstrating stalls. I couldn't believe these young kids were teaching! Now im not bashing all new young instructors, dont get me wrong but we have a serious flaw in our training syllabus. Why on earth do we not require spin training?! It makes no sense whatsoever. Its not possible to understand the feeling or the sight picture of an actual spin without doing it . Our pitiful attempt at showing what a stall is in todays training is absurd! Im afraid we are headed for a train wreck with accidents skyrocketing because i constantly see adds trying to convince young people that thwre is this massive shortage of pilots. This is not representative of the truth. It resembles more of a blatant scam to get students in debt for 100 grand. Really sad. So when people say" how in thw world does a certified pilot get in these predicaments "? I say how are we so lucky we don't have more!? We MUST shout from the rooftops for change in the way we train! Anyway, thank you Jason for your dedication and hard work. We need more voices from people with the platform to speak up about these deficiencies in flight training. Im passionate about aviation safety and again, i dont mean to say that all is bad .
Today young pilots are too obsessed with ForeFlight, and deficient in basic stick n rudder skills. But don't try to tell them that...cuz you're just a senile old man who ruined the world and they're smarter than you. :-/
This is ALL too common. Lack of basic "stick and rudder" skills. I am a retired physician and became a CFI. I have about 44 years of flying including backcountry, competition aerobatics and gliders. I only give tailwheel instruction and I have been appalled at the lack of basic flying skills with all levels of certificated pilots. It's incredibly frustrating to me and it's obvious why LOC-I in general aviation is the leading cause of fatalities. What more can I say! I do not have a solution for this ongoing problem. If you have not had upset-recovery and basic aerobatic training in light general aviation aircraft, you are inadequately trained! In addition, it must be done not just once, but on a recurrent basis. It can be moderately expensive, but how much is your life worth! Think about it. Flying light general aircraft is statistically risky. You need to minimize the risk to the best of your ability. Enough said.
There are some student pilots who are scared to do stalls. Have you ever had a student quit after doing this spin training?
On my second lesson back in 1983, my instructor demonstrated spins to me and told me don’t try this at home. Today, intentional spins are fun to do.
You begin to introduce stalls in a benign and non-threatening manner by demonstration, with plenty of altitude, and a rock-solid attitude of confidence and skill. Spins, you'll introduce later after stall recovery is competent. In a ground lesson, you can remind the student that most paper airplanes stall and recover a couple times every time you launch it.
Not sure why they dont teach spins during PPL training in the USA... They do in the country to the north ...
Agree. USA teaches only spin awareness.
It looked like whoever was in the right seat tried to push the right rudder... a bit too late. I had some basic spin training. I didn't enjoy it one bit lol but it made me a better pilot.
I just wanna know how you go through flight training and still end up doing something like this 😭
Having learned to fly in the 70s from a crusty old WWII era instructor, I am appalled at the state of flight instruction today. Reading the accident reports makes me wonder how half the pilots flying today ever passed their check ride. It seems most today are “children of the magenta line” as American Airlines Captain Warren Vanderburgh coined and have little to no stick and rudder skills.
I thought the engine stalled, I didn't think someone would pull the power to idle on purpose.
Difficult to stall a GA airplane with the nose below the horizon on the normal operations.
How to prevent? Never fly with THAT GUY.
His GF was definitely impressed--physically into the dirt.
Don't get slow!
@@Mrbfgray first impressions always the most important. lol
That s crazy to see that people are somehow losing these basics over time.
I think that auto pilot technology might be contributing to this, but the reality is Flight Instructor as a group haven’t done a great job with this almost ever. That isn’t to say that there haven’t been great fight instructors, but rather that they seem to be the exception and not the rule.
@@TheFinerPoints I used to be "the spin guy" at my flight school and it was always the funnest kind of flight. We always climbed to not less than 6,500 agl for those maneuvers and although we never needed that much altitude, I insist on it anyway.
why did he power to idle? it makes no sense to do it for any reason.
"PARE" = Spin recovery
Speed is everything in aviation ! Even with glider , you increase your speed a bit before you enter the turn ! That’s one of the very basic rule !
Moose stall!
Classic spin stall. How did this guy ever get his PPL ?
Flight Instruction and Flight Instructors in Canada is and are Completely Different than what people get away with in the US, starting with the Minimum Age.
All Maneuvers are illustrated in the class (on the ground) and again in the air prior to being shown a demonstration. Then when the Student is able to articulate what should happen and when are they trusted to attempt that maneuver. Furthermore, there are things that simply are not done at low altitudes.
It seems to me that there are far too many, easily preventable Private Pilot accidents in the US.
He never had a PPL. It is a Tecnam P92 certified as ultralight.
Great, except Air Canada can’t find a fucking runway and has committed more errors than just about anyone can think of. What do you think of that question
wow @ 3:48 in or ther aouts co pilots stomps Right Rutter right . ut to late i guess or iam I wrong
Eeesh lucky. To low to recover but low enough to survive. All 9 lives used in the making of this film
I'm not a pilot, but when that engine rpm dropped, I'm thinking, "Lower the nose, lower the nose!!!" I thought he was having engine trouble, but to find out he did this on purpose, SMH SMH plus ample face-palming.
Turn the beat around. Turn it upside down.
Why the hell did he reduce throttle in the first place...
What do you think - would that situation still had been recoverable? Like if he wouldn't have put in power but pushed forward and hammered the right rudder down? They are quite low, so hard to tell if they would have still hit the ground? - Ok, if they don't do it, they hit the ground for sure. But where was maybe the tipping point?
It is a miracle they got out of that unharmed. He then probably said: Good thing I was flying so slow already, made the impact less hard. Right? 😉
If you are an expert in recognizing an incipient stall, you can recover within 200 feet, but if you are an amateur you will need at least 500 feet in a trainer like Cessna 172.
Yes. Pilot would have had to pitch down, wings level, smoothly but promptly apply power and right rudder, and they might have resumed flight with a few feet to spare.
I fly this type of aircraft myself (Tecnam P92). This aircraft is quite forgiving, but there are limits. If he had pushed the stick forward at the same time as applying full throttle, he could have recovered. But he keeps pulling the stick towards him until the end.
My instructor showed me, in a 152, that if you go into a cross controlled stall in a turn you lose less altitude in the recovery if you keep the cross controlled stall going until you've done more of a "3/4 snap roll" and the plane has rolled all the way around than if you stop it as fast as possible and then try to recover from the 90+-degree bank. Not sure anyone would have the presence to try to do that in a real case if they weren't prepared for the stall in the first place, but it was a great demo of how to handle an airplane.
Like watching a fish drown,
There's no excuse.
What? They weren't "okay", they both sustained massive amounts of serious injuries that will affect them both for the rest of their lives. This wasn't just some crash they just got up and walked out of 😂
Yeah, I think I phrased that poorly. Sorry about that. I just meant to say it’s not fatal.
Disappointed you didn't emphasize the forward stick pressure. Yes you mentioned it a couple of times but only at the end of the video. Would rather have heard it a dozen times because that is the most fundamental issue in all the mistakes that occurred - preventing the nose from exceeding the critical angle of attack. If that is allowed to happen, rudder is not going to save the day. Check the sequence in the FAA Handbook - reducing angle of attack is first.
When you go to full power you are using right rudder...
Or you just fly a jet 😆
I heard that guy doesn’t have a license and flies a sport plane. Blames the aircraft for being unsafe and takes no responsibility.
figures a yoked tatted guy would not take responsibility for almost killing someone. Bet he's a cop
@acirinelli that's not correct. He has (or at least had at the moment of the accident...) what in Spain is called ULM license (ultralight). Unlike the PPL, minimum flight time prior to the checkride is only 15h. Flying is limited only to day VFR conditions, only on class F and G airspace, avoiding overflight over populated areas, and limited to 10000ft AGL and 600kg MTOW. It recently changed because the limit has been for many years 1000ft AGL and 450kg MTOW on 2-seat airplanes.
@@gabimoreno9895 I, as the representative of physics, would like to apologize for the spin, I did not know that he was Spanish. Spanish air is different than Canadian air. My bad.
Couldn't really see what was going on in front of him during last turn. Was this a base to final turn spin? If not why is this person so low to the ground, there are clear structures on the ground so he should be at a minimum 500 feet AGL. In either situation there is no call for pulling power to idle. If he is landing he shouldn't be doing that til the runway is made, if he's not even landing he shouldn't be doing it at all at that altitude. You say you could fix this guy with a day or two, but I think that's a dubious proposition. Presumably this guy is already a PPL at the least or if he's a student then the other person should be a CFI, so there should be no need for any more training. The issue here is a clear case of most of the problems that plague humanity. You've got a person with a low IQ performing tasks that are beyond their mental capacities and no amount of training can fix them. I've always thought that part of the testing to receive a PPL should be a base IQ test. Memerizing rules and techniques for a week to pass the test shouldn't be enough. These people become a menace not only to themselves and their passengers, but innocent bystanders on the ground.
No, he's not a PPL. That is a ultralight. He was on the upwind leg for RWY36 after touch n' go on RWY09. He was not flying a standard pattern but doing dumb things as usual. This is the result.
And also Jason, at the start of the video you can clearly see he’s not coordinated to begin with
Terrifying video- I thought they were dead
did everything wrong 1st reaction was couldn't believe how low he was imitating stall spin
All good stuff. The best thing is at the end when you said how it doesn’t matter what order you do things in. Some instructors want to hammer in a 1,2,3 “Procedure“ and make you repeat his “procedure“ in his order. All those things need to be automatic and be done together. Two steps, stop the spin, pull out.
I don't know why you're saying "zero right rudder"because when you can clearly see his feet, it's obvious he's pushing on the right pedal.
not immediately.
Yah and it looks like he didn't have neutral ailerons either. Shoot...just letting go of the stick and kicking right rudder would be better. Opposite rudder of the spin ( rudder of resistance).
Left wing is low, airspeed is low, altitude is low, doesn't correct for the nose and wing drop. And then he gives full power...nice
Sad but there were much less of these type accidents when tail draggers ruled. Then, a pilot really learned how to fly a plane and understand aerodynamics.
Thanks Jason
That opening clip nearly stopped my heart. TRIGGER WARNING!
As a GA pilot - me too. 😱
I’m so sorry these people think they are in a fighter jet or any sort of aircraft that has 1:1 thrust ratio lol. Even if u were in jet that low of altitude those afterburner isn’t goin to save u flat out of the floor board baby.
Go practice, practice. The every 90 day t'n'g needs to be every 40 or 45 days.
I will NEVER understand how a licensed pilot would ever get into this predicament.
Don't be too confident in your assessment. Pilots with great training and lots of experience make egregious mistakes too. If you think you are immune to that, you are at greater risk.
@@Factory400 So you are telling me I cannot believe that I don't understand what I feel? GTFOH!
Advanced Ultralight. I Imagine his country has a lesser license than PPL for that aircraft type. That said, I know a few PPL's who have no clue...
@@Factory400Because their training didn't take.
@@FollowTheJohn I'm sure you never make mistakes and definitely know everything. Your learning is obviously complete.
Whether this guy could recognize a stall or not; it would not matter; you have to know how to AVOID a stall with energy/airspeed management. This guy didn't know ANYTHING about aerodynamics other than throttle makes you go up and down. You can't teach people how to recognize a stall without teaching wing aerodynamics and energy management first.
This guy quit flying and said he'd never fly again and He said he had done this many times; probably something his flight instructor taught him in doing a tight pattern.
"I could fix these problems if I could work with this pilot..." normally I'd say yep, for sure. But with this guy (if you check out his channel) I'm thinking any lessons to be taught would be lost on him. Just all the wrong attitudes.
Try infinite flight simulator is the real thing
This video show,s a really poor explanation of a stall spin, the recover, the cause of the accident
and is typical iof the crappy training students get today.
I'll deal with just the entry.
The Primary Cause of this "Wing Drop Stall , was the failure to lower the nose while
adding power at the point of stall.
It appears the pilot, realized his situation , added power but failed to lower the nose,
Right rudder was required primarily for the wing drop not because he added power.
Like most students today, they are not trained effectively in slow speed flight
Most flight tests today are increasingly poor quality students.
One primary cause is poor quality instruction
and this video is a classic example.
Maybe you should watch again…?
You can teach until you turn blue in the face. Without common sense and a little bit of pilot smarts in your pocket, you shouldn't be flying!!!
Not sure why God spared this one. 🤡