Seki sensei talked about this. He did this fast slash that didn’t completely go through the tatami and basically said “that’s plenty”. There was also a video of kendo guys doing these sorts of small cuts with katanas as an experiment and being able to cut pretty deep. I bet plenty of fights ended from these sorts of blows.
Yeah, it was an interesting video. IIRC, it was the one where he discusses the fact that they don't do much tatami cutting in his dojo, because of the temptation to modify your technique to create more impressive test cuts rather than doing what's martially effective.
I think a big part is just armored vs unarmored combat. An armored opponent is incredibly tough and these things wouldn't be effective, but for unarmored combat swords are just incredibly deadly and even a lot of "ineffective" blows would have you dying after the fight.
@@novembermike512 Well, yes of course and you should know that Matt talks about unarmoured combat unless otherwise specified. CLEARLY these little taps would do nothing to an armoured opponent.
I think it gives context to armor like mail. These light taps are bad for you but would be stopped by mail. Even if mail doesn't do quite as much to stop heavy blows, you got the protection against what probably are the more likely hits.
Had a club member do a demo for us of wrist cuts using small, light, thin shearing/small swords against layered jackets with foam padding underneath. The results were surprising to those that lived in the "must give big cuts to matter" folks. Certainly they wouldn't sever a limb through bone but it easily cut through heavy wool jackets and did enough underneath to open muscle, sever tendons, and cut open veins, disable hands, etc Its also a big reason we have been moving away from weighting head/body cuts higher than limb cuts in our tournamnets systems. Great video.
Hi Matt, this video proves an important point: you will manage to do what others claim doesn't work, if you're good at doing it because you've been practicing instead of claiming something doesn't work.
I fenced for many years in USFA competitions on the national level and also taught fencing at the (NorCal) Renn Faire in the 1970s and 80s. We were the first to start messing around with rapie and dagger fencing, or what came to be called "classical fencing." Serioux competitive fencers put in a lot of time training. The fantasy/"historical sword crowd talk a lot more than they actually train, and then, they really don't know how to train to the best advantage. The speed of modern fencing gives an experienced modern fencer a huge advantage over the fantasy groups. At the faire, those who liked to talk were always arguing and theorizing. I always saw through it. The way I settled such debates was to take them out on the stip or open ground and show them what works.
@@deaddocreallydeaddoc5244 I love the simple plastic baseball bat fight. I grew up country, my grandpa tie string along the tree line for the branches to be trim back. Then we were handed a sword to draw, slow cut and re sheath. Practices, practice, and years of practice. German saber or Italian rapier. Toy cutting rapier, length of steel rebar with the tip hammer flat and with three-inch tip sharpen. Cardboard duct tape handle with a cardboard tube to draw from. Don't stick your hand practicing sheathing. Then moved you to a length of thin bar stock practice blunt edge pressure cuts on weeds and thin brush. ( .. can I PLEASE use the power tools now ?! ..) I hate baseball and was lousy using and axe to split wood, .. soooo . I still had to do outside exercise. My grandpa set me up with a Dane axe, I trim out the staff and he blow touch the sheet metal for the head. Egg Musket: plastic pipe, cardboard/duct tape, baking soda & vinegar and gently load the chicken into the tube. Then wait for launch. D&D has a lot of armchair warriors too. AD&D was just bad, really, really bad. So my two gaming shops from 1998 to 2009 had a weight bench to bench press and dead lift for your PC strength score to beat out random dice rolls. Then plastic baseball bat fights.
Carlo, after your many, many videos showing just how extremely viable it is to translate Modern Olympic Fencing skills to HEMA (because it derives from, and still keeps lots of the essence of, HEMA) I think the only people who are still preoccupied with "MOF stuff not working in HEMA" are people who don't train MOF *or* HEMA very well. Or who just don't train.
Scimitars are themselves sabers though. “Scimitar” was just a term used for a saber used outside of Europe. We see for instance some Polish and Hungarian sabers are called sabers but this same saber from the Ottoman Empire might be called a kilij or scimitar if you want to use the broad term. In short scimitar is not a really useful term and it refers to sabers anyway. I recommend watching Russ Mitchel’s saber lecture (can’t link it here sorry) for more on the terminology which gets complicated fast.
"Scimitar" is an English word (probably a bastardization of shamshir) that no one uses in that region of Asia & North Africa. They are just sabres, and in fact, some European and American sabres were derived from those foreign curved swords. Like for instance, the US Marine sabre came from the Mameluke style sabre that they encountered in the First Barbary War "to the shores of Tripoli." Perhaps US Marines might have evolved their own sabre fighting system that is different than what Libyans would've used back then, but make no mistake: sabres are still sabres. If the blades are curved and the points of balance are similar, the functions are going to be similar. A big difference in fighting style would really come from the presence (or absence) of a shield to pair with the sabre.
Scimitars vs Sabers, its mostly a lingustics term referencing a specific period of curved swords. The Saber/Sabre term mostly refers to the Napoleonic Wars era backswords that were used by the light cavalry of that era. So we are talking about 18th-19th century which means no armor (mostly military clothes), which is the BIG difference. However the reality is that sabers were around for a long time & armor played a very imporant factor (light or heavy) in the shaping of the blade. Similarly the term scimitar encompasses a more general era (10th century onwards) of curved swords that was introduced to Western Europe.
This reminds me of some of the stuff I've seen with jians. The sword is very light, but with the centre of mass being far away from the hands, despite people sometimes calling it the Chinese rapier, it doesn't control the same. It's still nimble, but in a different way, and that way (as I've been shown) may been revolved around a similar sort of flick motion as here. Instead of keeping the point on-line like a rapier and pushing the blade forward, it was sort of dropping the jian from a more vertical position and pushing forward, letting the sword fall into a thrusting position, and then pulling it back afterward. One of the things mentioned in this showing was that this not only allowed for using the blade's centre of mass to enable quick thrusts, but that it could also be altered very slightly to deliver reasonably damaging, quick cuts, in more or less the same as seen here. Can be tricky to defend against, as the same motion can used to deliver a thrust or a cut.
Similarly the Eastern Roman Empire used a similar type of sword (double-edged straight) along with the Paramerion (curved single edged) just like the Chinese used the Jian & Dao. The only difference is that the Eastern Romans also fought the Persians (another very strong & rich empire) and thus had to face a lot more heavily armored troops & cavarly.
@@cokecan6169 Ah i was talking about the Jian in general (Jian simply means sword). Jian swords were also in the Warring States period and they are quite different than the more stereotypical jian, these were heavier and broader. The stereotypical Jian is from a later era, it functions more like a spadroon. That type of jian weapon performs less adequate against armor.
@@cokecan6169 Could also be that their opponents didnt have good economies as well. The most difficulty they had was vs the northern horse nomads when themselves when they were split up as warring kingdoms. And when China was unified, then the horse nomads werent such a problem. Eastern Roman Empire was fighting the Persians who were rich (therefore good armors) & also had a good cavalry tradition. Hungary also had such a transformation on a far less scale, where they were between Western and Eastern powers with different tactics and weapons. I think that is one of the critical elements, strength of the opponents.
I've studied the use of the jian, the "scholar's sword" in Tai Chi and Kung Fu, and was going to point out how it's used for flick cuts like the ones Matt is demonstrating. In our forms, the blade frequently circles close to the body defensively but is flicked out at long extension to deliver cuts (and thrusts) with a lot of speed but not a lot of weight behind them.
Can we just acknowledge the fact that Matt has some beautiful technique! Like, I am no expert, but the way he handled each of those swords was just so beautiful! What an inspiration!
A guy near me makes a water bottle cutting stand out of PVC pipe. It’s genius. The bottle is held upside down. A PVC fixture is just the right size to receive the bottle cap.
It's the follow through that's contentious for me. A true flick strike wouldn't have you rotating back into your guard stance. A flick in my mind, is a strike followed by a subsequent reversal of momentum back to the original stance or plane of the blade. By putting your weight into the strike regardless of windup, you're leaving yourself open briefly to counterattack by following through. That said, it's also what's required to make the cut. I'd like to see the damage done to similar targets, but just with a tap of the blade instead. I feel that the objects may not be severed, but the equivalent damage to a flesh and bone person would still be very debilitating.
I'm also thinking of it less full commitment, more as a circular movement just like a jab. However the possibility to have two draw cuts one forward and one in return with the person's weight behind it would be very very unpleasant for soft targets. Sharp blades cut very well when being pushed and pulled just like they do in the kitchen.
Great video and its nice to see these type of cuts showing effectiveness. Though someone who use to do Olympic fencing (OF) I was a bit mislead by the terminology. In OF we just call those cuts and flicks are something different. Flicks to my knowledge is an exclusive OF technique where you whip the blade in a way to cause it to bend and this allows you to reach around someone's guard similar to how a flail works. Since blades are more flexible than real swords and you don't need a lot of for to get the hit it works extremely well. Their are different style of flicks for each weapon. Epee with the blade which is the stiffest you mainly slam your blade on the person's bell guard in order to make it bend and stab them in the forearm. I think its the most realistic of the 3 because I've seen people get injured by it. Foil is where flicks are king. There is a blade made by Leon Paul (not the guitar company) call the "Flick Master". It looks like a scorpion's tail on how they use it and its impressive how they can stab you in the back while facing your front. I would love to see one of those foils get a sharpen tip and test to see how much penetration can actually be done with it. Sabre is interesting because before 2000 the blades were super flimsy and it looks like they were fighting with silver pool noodles. They changed the rules to where they couldn't bend that much but they still have some flex along the flat. I've seen some fencer hold the sabre sideways and strike with the flat in order to flick. Anyways I would be interested and seeing how effective they would be if they were real weapons (especially the foil). You would probably need to have an actual OF practitioner as flicks are not that easy to do and needs a lot of practice to use reliably. I don't think they would be very effective honestly but I do see some potential which is why I think its worth trying.
Yeah, these were like standard olympic saber cuts--although still with much more wrist and elbow and follow through that one wouldn't have in that sport. I'm guessing the hema context is "cuts that are very handy for scoring points, but are (arguably) less realistic in a historical swordfight simulation." Or, "stop doing olympic saber cuts in hema, ya wankers."
Right, yeah, I was looking to see some real flick type flicks, though I suppose those would have to be more thrust than cut, and possibly leave behind more mangled-looking water bottles. Also I recall those type of flicks being made somewhat easier by pistol grips, which we're obviously not going to see with these historical blades (besides the ones he was using that were not rapiers and not even likely to work whipping around like that)
yes the foil (and at high level epee) flick, stops the blade short of the target and the tip comes around to depress the tip switch. There is no follow through the cut, it retracts back the same way from the stop. The geometry of actual swords make this much harder to achieve flexibility needed for a foil flick in the orientation of the cutting edge. However a short wrist flick cut on a sword as shown even without the follow Matt uses above will cut.
The sticking point when it comes to quick flicking cuts like this isn't so much the damage you can do compared to a stronger committed cut as it is the speed and accuracy. Skallagrim did a fantastic video about this same sort of topic where he was astounded that the light rising cut with the false edge completely destroyed the ballistic bone set hand that he propped up to test on (which actually disappointed him a little because he wanted to do more cuts). I used to attend a HEMA school where the entire focus of the instructor was hand snipes and what he called "stop thrusts". Where you deliberately aim for the hands. The techniques revolved around moving offline while aiming at the hand during your opponent's slash/thrust, or quickly flicking the hand before and after a slash/thrust. And he wasn't forgiving about the edge alinement either. "you can't just flail your blade at the hand and hope for the best." We also had hyper flexible plastic trainers with heavy duty gloves to practice with safer stuff then steel. But even that resulted in swollen knobby fingers. God forbid you duel without gauntlets with a bastard that can snipe with a real blade of even passing sharpness. If his edge alinement is good the fingers won't be. And of course Matt brought up the fact that any of these snipes connecting with the head, neck etc. No thank you. but yeah at any rate great video Matt. Real shame that it's for real that hard to get tatami mats in England, but with how expensive everything is now I don't blame you if I'm honest.
I don't know if they still make them, but Cold Steel used to have promotional videos in which they, usually with shorter blades, often demonstrated "snap cuts", same as your "flick cut", in pig and cow carcasses.
I'm gonna show all the people who constantly tell me that power is everything this and then listen to them call the antique sword dealer a buffoon lol. I used to larp a lot, and I'm pleasantly surprised by how similar these strokes are to the "cuts" we threw on each other all the time.
Matt, with respect, I think that your instincts for good cutting are making it difficult for you to test the kind of thing that people are complaining about about. Look at 6:04-6:06 for example, your "flick cuts" are going through nearly 90 degrees of motion. That is not the kind of action that I complain about as invalid.
I did some experiments with tip flick cuts with the first smallsword/pocket rapier I made on a ham and a fairly substantial turkey breast-both cuts were 2-1/2 or 3" deep, and about 3" long. Not so deep as a loch, nor as wide as a barn door, but it'll do
In fencing I was always told no flick cuts and I lost every match to flick cuts 🤷♂️. A flick cut seems to be for landing the point then followed through with thrust.
When I did Olympic fencing, my instructors never taught flick attacks. Then, a foemer member came to visit the club and did nothing but flicks. My instructors let me get welts on my back for 20 very confusing minutes before finally teaching me how to parry them. Needless to say, I was pissed.
I feel like it's important to point out that flicks in olympic epee/foil don't mean the same thing as flick cuts like Matt Easton is talking about here. A flick in foil is where you make a whipping motion, causing the blade tip to bend around the target's guard and hit them on the back of the shoulder, but the "flick cut" that HEMA people seem to be talking about would just be referred to in olympic sabre as... a cut. It's the default kind of cut, because it's the fastest to land.
What the H are you talking about. If you were fencing, the moment a score is registered the action stops. There is no second opportunity for another hit (score). Your language use seems to be non-fencing, but fantasy sword lingo. If you want to look at it in a realistic sense, then, a flick doesn't do much damage and you can follow it with a thrust which is well known (among the knowledgable) to be far more lethal than a cut. A note on language and swordwork. "Thrust" implies a sudden jab of the arm in an attempt to use strength to push the point into a body. The way muscles work, a thrusting jab results in a shorter reach of the foible of the blade, which is the attacking tip of the sword (regardless of type). Genuine fencing technique teaches how to extend the sword from the hand to the arm, to the shoulder, and the legs then propel the tip further. With training, a fencer learns (if they have a real master teaching them) how to gain one to three inches of reach by extending the shoulder. This is not a natural movement and must be learned. The scapula is actually moved away from the thorax. Over time, the muscles learn how to do this. I once pulled a costal cartilage from my sternum, while executing an attack so energetically that when I pushed my sword out from my shoulder, (I was also executing a flying lunge), I pulled the cartilage with the muscles of my scapula. I understand this because I was also a sports chiropractor and took care of Olympic fencers in the U.S. and Slovenia. (I lad on the floor and set my own cartilage in place. I had to redo that for about a month).
That's very strange to me because, as a HEMA practitioner, my perception is that Olympic fencing is nothing but flicks and light movements to get contact. Olympic fencing seems to be more about touching than actual good quality cuts. The again, perhaps what you are calling a "flick cut vs normal cut" and what I would consider a "flick cut vs normal cut" are just two very different things.
This is such a a worthy point of exploration and consideration. On the scale of esoteric information to practical information - we love esoteric information at times, but this is purely practical information and it should be noted and appreciate as such.
Flicks are definitely useful and serve several purposes for me as tall fencer. Easy to snipe hands while staying relatively safe, keeps close fencers honest and they can’t just charge in, and just like the video that small quick cuts could definitely end a real sword fight or disable an opponent.
The beauty of missing out a couple of weeks is, that I can binge video releases that way and don't have to wait, like for this video after the video where it was said to be done haha. Nice stuff!
As an aside from the matter of cuts: this video was a great chance to see Matt's basic footwork. These videos are often shot in his studio/garage, and only show from the chest or waist up, due to space limitations - so all we normally see is the blade moving around the head and shoulders. Of course, Matt wasn't especially thinking about evasion or openings - but it's neat to see him "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" even against a water bottle.
I appreciate the effort. My critique is that, to me, a flick is where the sword is pulled back at the instant of intended contact. In epee it’s used to bend the tip around the opponents guard to hit the hand. I’d imagine a flick cut as following that same “giving a tap” like movement, where the sword is recovered back along the path of the cut You addressed this by saying “not cutting through won’t be effective”, but for me, not cutting through is what makes it a flick. By cutting through your not testing flicks, but rather how chambered a standard cut needs to be to be effective in the lunge. Which for an excellent Victorian sabruer like yourselves is not very much.
One other factor to consider; Lighter swords & swords with better tip control, the kind of swords that lend themselves to 'flick cuts', can also give more precise cuts. So you may not be able to hit with as much force, but that force can be applied more precisely. Maybe you can't chop an arm off, but you can sever the tendons of the wrist...
A great medium if you are just testing cuts are pull noodles with wooden dowels inside them. I don't know how expensive they are in the UK but you can usually get a pull noodle for around $1.00-1.75 apiece and you can get bundles of dowels for a dowels for a decent price.
Glad to see the rain finally gave you a break long enough to get outdoors. Just wondering why when you demonstrate the flick cut on air it's quite small but when hitting a target you seem to follow through almost all the way across your body? Is the flick just on the "wind up" side of the stroke and not so much on the follow through? Thanks Matt.
The timing of this video is scary. I was just practicing small cuts this morning trying to make my actions shorter and faster. I don't usually really find energy to argue with people about what is or isn't effective, i just focus on utilizing whatever i'm studying regardless of whether my practice partners want to yield them as valid quality hits or good techniques. Today during practice however i just couldn't stop thinking about all the times i got lectured about how my cuts need larger motions and more impact to them, etc. So i guess despite thinking i never cared, the way some ignore the flicking cuts i make still had gotten a little under my skin.
Glad there is some response with a brain and some real tests. We don't want toxic people to go unopposed like what used to happen in hema when cult of personality people said x or y. I did get a lot of laughs from all the memes too which is also helpful in shutting up idiots. You really need both tactics to squash the dumb. Ridicule and reason work really well. Thanks Matt for crushing the reason tactic so well.
The shamshir always looks amazing. I really wonder what the handling of an oversized shamshir (to make up the reach compared to the other swords) would feel like in the hand. Though that cut seemed immaculate even at the very of the blade makes me reconsider if the reach is even an issue if it can cut that well NOT at the center of percussion.
Coming from the SCA and Buhurt side of the world, we primarily use these types of cuts, and for the simple reason that slower cuts tend to get blocked, dodged, or parried easily. "Flick cuts" are much less telegraphed. We also tend to fight in a much more defensive posture for the simple reason that if your sword is overly extended or brought back behind your head, a shield can easily be used to stop your motion.
@@Caseyuptobat if it hurt you bad enough to knock you out, then it's not bullshido. You don't know what you're talking about. Keep watching HEMA videos on youtube and talking shit online. Actual martial practice is clearly too rigorous for you.
I’m also holding out for some reviews and test thrusts **and cuts** of the new LK Chen Spanish rapier. It’s much thinner than the previous rapiers they made so cutting will be a challenge, would make for good experimenting.
Before Matt starts, my supposition is: 1) minimal effectiveness vs fully armored. You have to hit joints & mail apt to prevent/minimalizes injury 2) effective against partial armored like just a Tauber with face or limbs susceptible Probably not immediately disabling, likely more debilitating due blood loss 3) suspect very effective against unarmored Wouldn't it be more dependent on blade design? Now, to hear what Matt describes.
I’m glad you’re still going strong mate. I used to argue with you vigorously about the effectiveness of sport fencing vs hema. In any case, I use your channel as a reference. Cheers.
Comparing this to what you see in olympic fencing, I think there's a huge difference caused by the angle and design of the grips. In olympic it is all forward thrust, or flick cut, with very, very subtle movement off the line, usually to displace your opponents "sword" - and because that is the focus of the sport, the grips are often pistol-grips, and even those who prefer "old-school" grips usually have them angled, to assist the wrist. I think you are seeing "larger" movements than you were intending, because there is no way to flick-cut with a straight sword with a linear grip with *any* authority, without activating your wrist quite a lot. Or maybe I'm talking nonsense. It's been over a decade since I did any fencing at all. But, a thought.
Joachim Meyer has a specific cut/thrust described in the daggersection killed the "riss" which is a cut with the tip of the dagger. This would be cool to see you do some tests on
I'm using the lowest playback speed of YT, and in all of these cuts you are actually doing much much more rotation than 90 degrees. In fact closer to 180 degrees. You may argue that these are "flick cuts" the way you'd perform them in actual fencing. If so then we simply need to change our definition of what flick cuts are. They are not "minimal" and so we should not be surprised that they cut well.
By rotation, I believe Matt is talking 'angle of attack' (i.e. the rotation of the blade to its left and right) rather than how far back he pulls the blade towards himself before the blow. Most of these cuts appear to have been at a roughly 45 degree angle, i.e. not inheriting a bunch of slicing capability from a wide horizontal swing, yet still having enough cutting power from the flick forward to deeply cut even with this minimal rotation.
That's what I saw too, the flicks he does in the air are different than the cuts. It's a natural thing to do when trying to actually damage something but it's no flick.
As a former olympic fencer, what we called a flick would never make a cut. AS the "flick" referred to whipping the point down so it bends or "flicks" off line to have the button hit solid while the actual blade is out of line to the hit. This would not be possible with a cutting edge of any tip. A snap or whip cuts from the wrist, especially with any kind of body weight, should be more than enough speed and weight to make the cut as you demonstrate.
I would likely fall for a balestra/flick-retreat-balestra combo, because the flick would totally make me flinch and hesitate, no matter how much the flick actually cut, but especially so if it hurt. I'd get impaled. I would almost certainly move back, but I dunno if it would fully distract me from defense. Probably. A fast, low balestra is tough anyway. Idk.
Hey Matt, I don't disagree with your findings and you statement. No I would not want to be hot by you performing one of those cuts. However my stance on flick cuts has remained unchanged. First I believe this falls under learn the "rules" before you learn when/where/how you can break them. Learn proper cutting mechanics and then you can optimize and refine the movement. An experienced practitioner can do a lot with a little. But a beginners or intermediates mechanics need work on fundamentals before they can throw an effective flick cut. I probably err on the side of caution when it come to this, it's easier to see good mechanics in a large swing afterall. But also I don't find it fun when someone scores or wins based on cheeky contact without proper mechanics. Most of the flick cuts I see and have a problem with, aren't like the ones you used. They generally start from a long point/iron gate position, and extend out (without rotation or pulling back), make contact and pull back (without follow-through), and generally don't engage the hips or put their body behind the cut when stepping.
One thing that would add slightly to the power of these cuts (which I don't think I see Matt doing) is opening your hand towards the back of the cut, and "snapping" the sword back into a proper grip as you complete the cut. I used to use this mechanic a lot when cutting bamboo with a machete as a teenager, and since getting into HEMA have always been complemented on how much power I can produce from small flick cuts because of this technique.
Can you please do a vid on centre of percussion and the science behind 'what makes a good cutter', it's like archery I've never really got to work out a bows power in ft lbs using length of bow , draw length and draw weight.
Maybe the first rapier cut on the milk bottle was noticeably less than 70, but yea, you're drawing back for each of those cuts instead of just flicking forward. I'd be curious to see what a bit of wool or linen would do. I do agree with the premise that you don't need a giant wind-up to make a successful cut
I think you're underestimating the fact that sure, the end of the rapier is quite far away from its center of percussion, but it's also the part that travels the quickest. And cutting low radius objects is all about speed. If it has very low mass it's a problem, but that rapier doesn't.
One inch punch. The mechanics of swinging or pushing are such that the force of a blow doesn't depend on a massive wind up! Once the weapon reaches max speed (like falling at terminal velocity) there's no gain from more distance travelled.
The vast majority of movement of a weapon or attacking limb in fighting arts is merely muscle fiber recruitment, and the need for that movement can be minimized by training, especially isometric or even better isokinetic training (isokinetic is essentially isometric training that is able to move across a distance). See also Bruce Lee's short one inch and three inch punching techniques which were based on isometric training to increase muscle fiber recruitment since isokinetic training wasn't commonly available in his era.
"A cut which moves in a large circle is going to have more power" isn't necessarily true. Two things matter for power: blade speed, and ability to apply force to keep the blade going at that speed against resistance ("kinetic chain"). A heavier blade takes longer to reach max speed for a given input strength, but a light blade can be accelerated quickly. Two identical blades going at the same speed with the same kinetic chain have the same power.
Watching this you can tell Matts the best fencer out of the swordtubers by a country mile, unreal form, footwork minimal wasted movement, and all this while just practicing on water bottles. In a swordtubers battle royal I’d be betting on him taking the win
This was very interesting. I would like to see Matt try this technique with something akin to a spadroon. I'm aware that it's far from his favorite sword but it might be informative on how effective the technique could be with a slightly rubbish blade.
9:00 I would say this cut could be made without the retraction of the blade. The step makes this movement for you relative to your target so you may even have a longer than expected reach. I would love to see this cut done but only passing the tip halfway through the target. This would further show the potential damage with the least amount of telegraphing.
Matt, I'm going to have to agree, a lot of these cuts as many have said, myself included, would not consider these flick cuts. You have near full arm rotation on the fallow through. What you practice on the lead up to the cut, isnt the cut you actually make. So I would love to see cuts with minimum cutting beyond the target. Then compare how those cuts to these cuts. Thanks!! I will attempt some next cutting day as well.
I've practiced cutting water bottles before, and the absolute hardest to cut were tiny half-pint bottles. The wall thickness to the weight made them very challenging, even more so because I was mostly cutting with kukris.
When I was practising cuts and edge alignment with my katana I saw, in due time, that a flick cut is good enough. It's just a quick shallow cut but done right it's a clean and easy shallow cut that can cost life or limb and leaves you with good position to either further aggression or defense. You don't need to chop off a limb to end a fight. And you'd be surprised how deep a good cutter can bite with proper technique.
How about something more like modern fencing technique, where there’s no windup? I feel like “flick” means “from guard in front of you, just extend forward.” All these movements back before the cut are slow/non-flicks/telegraph your attacks.
I agree with you there, thats what a flick means to me also. There may be a degree of rotation of the hand, as so the arm would be moving forward and at no point backwards first before the strike as per the video.
In battle, you would use the first 2 to 3 inches of that rapier. And yes, you would go right through rib cages on purpose with a flicking cut. Although you would attempt to cut the flesh from the rib rather than sever the rib. Or like I stated earlier. Remove the flesh from face.
Love seeing the difference between a fencing saber and these swords. With fencing I used more to pinch the hilt and use the wrist. What makes a very fast hit. But its not possible with these real more heavy swords. It's more like a tennis movement.
Great video, Matt! It would be nice to see some more curved blades there, as you said yourself that it changes the way cut is applied and olympic fencing sabre comes from real sabres, which were curved. There's a great range of those too with different curvatures and thicknesses of the blades. I'm by no means an expert, I only fenced for a few years and it was all sport fencing, but I dealt and received my share of hits. And I definitely wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of a flick made with a sharp sword aimed at wrist or fingers (assuming open grip). It doesn't need to cut a lot.
I don't do practice cutting, so when I think of tatami mats I think of rigid pads an inch thick used as flooring in houses. Rolling those up and cutting them would be impressive.
When I was a kid my dad had these prop swords in the garage that my brother and I used to play with. My brother did a flick cut type of thing to me and caught my wrist and ended up fracturing it. I can totally see a quick cut, with the type of force behind it meant to cause harm would do a good amount of damage.
Thanks for the great video Matt! Love seeing you using swords. On that note, are there any plans for some sparring videos from your club? I think it's such a great learning resource and I hope we can see more of it!
just reacting to when you said "scary sharp" about the arming sword in the first round of cutting -- The first time I held a real blade, and I (stupidly) tested the edge with a finger, my perspective on the reality of these weapons shifted and sank deep into my bones.
Let me answer from the perspective of someone who had suffered injury from a table saw accident. I've stumbled during work at the wood lab. Brushed my fingers against the saw blade. Luckily just flesh wound. Didn't hurt my ligament, bones or joints...just tore through the flesh of four of my fingers. It was painful and incapacitated me from holding anything and it bled like crazy. I held my hand above my head to reduce danger of extreme blood loss, the blood dripping over my arms and all over my hair. So yeah, just a flicking injury at the right place is fatal in a fight. It really is plenty. You don't need to hack and butcher through your opponent. Also need I mentioned since l was injured at the place with lots of nerve point...it hurt like crazy!
Fab dondi kinda did a video on this. It was on the life of Donald Mcbane and the time his got jumped by 7 people. Mcbane wrote a book about it. Stay at the edges of a C, have two weapons, he used a light cut and thrust sword and his cane, and do a bunch of smacking motions and follow it with light flicking cuts to the wrist or elbow. Very low commit because you have to be ready to defend yourself at any time cus flipping seven against one. It is fun video, the guy and he buddies actually recreate the incident and the advice works very well.
Nice cuts! It’s difficult to overcome your train cutting mechanics to just flick. I’ve cut water bottles holding my long sword as little as 2-4” from the bottle, then exhaling and just yanking the blade through the bottle with a twist through my core. I was surprised that the cuts were so clean and easy.
@@lalli8152 We put a lot of effort into training out bad habits and training in good habits to the point its something hard to demonstrate the poor behaviour, even when show beginner student, “do it like this, ah, except you fail!” 😂
Agree with Matt. Also I like how he handles swords as weightless feathers. Flick cuts can do nasty things, even with the knives, swords are bigger and have more inertia. Sharpness states the damage. (to invulnerable ppl - So it's not a good idea to interpret over a blunt practice sword to evaluate the situation, or spar xp )
Thank you for some fascinating experimentation. Since you mentioned that you will do future videos with other cutting targets, would you consider doing one where the targets are wrapped in period-like cloth?
In some of the 18th and early 19th centuries manuals, isn't this type of cut often described as a cut "thrown" at the target? The context is often in relation to a cut at the arm as part of parry and repost. I have understood that as a fairly minimal motion from the context.
To test a summary sword that is supposedly subsharp. It could cut a God. You are to stand the sword in a perfect horizontal and bring it down 90° and across a swinging rope. Completely severing the rope. The rope being 4 inches in diameter. This kind of sharplus on a blade is considered one that would allow you to do the ripping of stim to Stern on a meat target. Without a single rip
Congrats on 10x-ing your subs since I started following! New subs should go look at the old content, lots of quality stuff there, and hardly anything's out of date :)
So, a RAPIER REALLY CAN ✂ CUT, surprise! all the old treaties that include cutting were right! 😀 Also for those who don't know Olympic fencing a "flick" involves a lot of bending of the blade, to the point that it goes over the head flexes and hits the back. It happens in saber,, but it's more prevalent in foil, the blades are super flexible. Saber only needs a touch, no edge required, for foil the speed and torsion of the blade is so powerful that it activates the button and marks a "hit". Cheers
So this has inspired me to try and do more test cutting, I just need to get a sharp sword. How good are the sabres from LK Chen? How do they compare to historical examples?
In my old hema school I was ordered not to flick at the end of cuts. I never used it to generate power, it was moreso a natural extension of joint flexing during a cut
Interesting trick I was told by a museum curator friend on how to easily find the centre of percussion is to slap the sword on the flat or the guard and note where along the blade the sword doesn't vibrate. That's your centre of percussion right there.
Unfortunately that's a common misconception. That shows you one of the vibrational nodes, but that is not the centre of percussion. In many swords is just so happens that the node is in the region of the centre of percussion, but it's not always the case and they are separate things. I made this mistake myself for many years - even shown in some early videos on this channel.
@@scholagladiatoria - ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification on this! Seems like something that coincidentally happened to be true many times but doesn't always hold.
Nasty, but neither lethal nor fight-ending (generally), which means they have a place depending on the context of the combat or even the milisecond by milisecond within.
Do you think maybe you had a hard time replicating the effects of a flick cut in bouting because in a bout the other fencer's body stops the sword, but when you were cutting that didn't happen, resulting in you getting more rotation in your cut than you were trying for?
Seki sensei talked about this. He did this fast slash that didn’t completely go through the tatami and basically said “that’s plenty”. There was also a video of kendo guys doing these sorts of small cuts with katanas as an experiment and being able to cut pretty deep. I bet plenty of fights ended from these sorts of blows.
Yeah, it was an interesting video. IIRC, it was the one where he discusses the fact that they don't do much tatami cutting in his dojo, because of the temptation to modify your technique to create more impressive test cuts rather than doing what's martially effective.
I saw that too. Very interesting and very practical.
Just going in is usually enough... through is overkill usually.😊
I think a big part is just armored vs unarmored combat. An armored opponent is incredibly tough and these things wouldn't be effective, but for unarmored combat swords are just incredibly deadly and even a lot of "ineffective" blows would have you dying after the fight.
@@novembermike512 Well, yes of course and you should know that Matt talks about unarmoured combat unless otherwise specified. CLEARLY these little taps would do nothing to an armoured opponent.
I think it gives context to armor like mail. These light taps are bad for you but would be stopped by mail. Even if mail doesn't do quite as much to stop heavy blows, you got the protection against what probably are the more likely hits.
And this sort of tap would be more useful in an unarmored duel to draw a bit of a wound.
Had a club member do a demo for us of wrist cuts using small, light, thin shearing/small swords against layered jackets with foam padding underneath. The results were surprising to those that lived in the "must give big cuts to matter" folks.
Certainly they wouldn't sever a limb through bone but it easily cut through heavy wool jackets and did enough underneath to open muscle, sever tendons, and cut open veins, disable hands, etc
Its also a big reason we have been moving away from weighting head/body cuts higher than limb cuts in our tournamnets systems.
Great video.
Flick cuts to the wrists and forehead/face are present in ancient kenjutsu (not just in kendo).
As they are in HEMA as well
Hi Matt, this video proves an important point: you will manage to do what others claim doesn't work, if you're good at doing it because you've been practicing instead of claiming something doesn't work.
I fenced for many years in USFA competitions on the national level and also taught fencing at the (NorCal) Renn Faire in the 1970s and 80s. We were the first to start messing around with rapie and dagger fencing, or what came to be called "classical fencing." Serioux competitive fencers put in a lot of time training. The fantasy/"historical sword crowd talk a lot more than they actually train, and then, they really don't know how to train to the best advantage. The speed of modern fencing gives an experienced modern fencer a huge advantage over the fantasy groups. At the faire, those who liked to talk were always arguing and theorizing. I always saw through it. The way I settled such debates was to take them out on the stip or open ground and show them what works.
indeed
@@deaddocreallydeaddoc5244
@@deaddocreallydeaddoc5244 I love the simple plastic baseball bat fight.
I grew up country, my grandpa tie string along the tree line for the branches to be trim back. Then we were handed a sword to draw, slow cut and re sheath. Practices, practice, and years of practice. German saber or Italian rapier.
Toy cutting rapier, length of steel rebar with the tip hammer flat and with three-inch tip sharpen. Cardboard duct tape handle with a cardboard tube to draw from.
Don't stick your hand practicing sheathing. Then moved you to a length of thin bar stock practice blunt edge pressure cuts on weeds and thin brush.
( .. can I PLEASE use the power tools now ?! ..)
I hate baseball and was lousy using and axe to split wood, .. soooo .
I still had to do outside exercise. My grandpa set me up with a Dane axe, I trim out the staff and he blow touch the sheet metal for the head.
Egg Musket: plastic pipe, cardboard/duct tape, baking soda & vinegar and gently load the chicken into the tube. Then wait for launch.
D&D has a lot of armchair warriors too. AD&D was just bad, really, really bad. So my two gaming shops from 1998 to 2009 had a weight bench to bench press and dead lift for your PC strength score to beat out random dice rolls. Then plastic baseball bat fights.
Same goes for Kendo. If you train every day speed will be your biggest advantage.
Carlo, after your many, many videos showing just how extremely viable it is to translate Modern Olympic Fencing skills to HEMA (because it derives from, and still keeps lots of the essence of, HEMA) I think the only people who are still preoccupied with "MOF stuff not working in HEMA" are people who don't train MOF *or* HEMA very well. Or who just don't train.
Would be interesting to see you talk about:
-The phasing out of brigandine
-In-depth history of Bucklers
-Scimitars vs Sabers
Scimitars are themselves sabers though. “Scimitar” was just a term used for a saber used outside of Europe. We see for instance some Polish and Hungarian sabers are called sabers but this same saber from the Ottoman Empire might be called a kilij or scimitar if you want to use the broad term.
In short scimitar is not a really useful term and it refers to sabers anyway. I recommend watching Russ Mitchel’s saber lecture (can’t link it here sorry) for more on the terminology which gets complicated fast.
The phasing out of brigandines would be very interesting. I'd love to see a video on that.
"Scimitar" is an English word (probably a bastardization of shamshir) that no one uses in that region of Asia & North Africa. They are just sabres, and in fact, some European and American sabres were derived from those foreign curved swords. Like for instance, the US Marine sabre came from the Mameluke style sabre that they encountered in the First Barbary War "to the shores of Tripoli." Perhaps US Marines might have evolved their own sabre fighting system that is different than what Libyans would've used back then, but make no mistake: sabres are still sabres. If the blades are curved and the points of balance are similar, the functions are going to be similar. A big difference in fighting style would really come from the presence (or absence) of a shield to pair with the sabre.
Scimitars vs Sabers, its mostly a lingustics term referencing a specific period of curved swords.
The Saber/Sabre term mostly refers to the Napoleonic Wars era backswords that were used by the light cavalry of that era.
So we are talking about 18th-19th century which means no armor (mostly military clothes), which is the BIG difference.
However the reality is that sabers were around for a long time & armor played a very imporant factor (light or heavy) in the shaping of the blade.
Similarly the term scimitar encompasses a more general era (10th century onwards) of curved swords that was introduced to Western Europe.
This reminds me of some of the stuff I've seen with jians. The sword is very light, but with the centre of mass being far away from the hands, despite people sometimes calling it the Chinese rapier, it doesn't control the same. It's still nimble, but in a different way, and that way (as I've been shown) may been revolved around a similar sort of flick motion as here. Instead of keeping the point on-line like a rapier and pushing the blade forward, it was sort of dropping the jian from a more vertical position and pushing forward, letting the sword fall into a thrusting position, and then pulling it back afterward. One of the things mentioned in this showing was that this not only allowed for using the blade's centre of mass to enable quick thrusts, but that it could also be altered very slightly to deliver reasonably damaging, quick cuts, in more or less the same as seen here. Can be tricky to defend against, as the same motion can used to deliver a thrust or a cut.
Similarly the Eastern Roman Empire used a similar type of sword (double-edged straight) along with the Paramerion (curved single edged) just like the Chinese used the Jian & Dao. The only difference is that the Eastern Romans also fought the Persians (another very strong & rich empire) and thus had to face a lot more heavily armored troops & cavarly.
@@cokecan6169 Ah i was talking about the Jian in general (Jian simply means sword). Jian swords were also in the Warring States period and they are quite different than the more stereotypical jian, these were heavier and broader.
The stereotypical Jian is from a later era, it functions more like a spadroon. That type of jian weapon performs less adequate against armor.
@@cokecan6169 Could also be that their opponents didnt have good economies as well. The most difficulty they had was vs the northern horse nomads when themselves when they were split up as warring kingdoms.
And when China was unified, then the horse nomads werent such a problem.
Eastern Roman Empire was fighting the Persians who were rich (therefore good armors) & also had a good cavalry tradition.
Hungary also had such a transformation on a far less scale, where they were between Western and Eastern powers with different tactics and weapons.
I think that is one of the critical elements, strength of the opponents.
I've studied the use of the jian, the "scholar's sword" in Tai Chi and Kung Fu, and was going to point out how it's used for flick cuts like the ones Matt is demonstrating. In our forms, the blade frequently circles close to the body defensively but is flicked out at long extension to deliver cuts (and thrusts) with a lot of speed but not a lot of weight behind them.
Can we just acknowledge the fact that Matt has some beautiful technique! Like, I am no expert, but the way he handled each of those swords was just so beautiful! What an inspiration!
A guy near me makes a water bottle cutting stand out of PVC pipe. It’s genius. The bottle is held upside down. A PVC fixture is just the right size to receive the bottle cap.
That shamshir looks so scarry being swung around lol. Intimidating.
It's the follow through that's contentious for me.
A true flick strike wouldn't have you rotating back into your guard stance.
A flick in my mind, is a strike followed by a subsequent reversal of momentum back to the original stance or plane of the blade.
By putting your weight into the strike regardless of windup, you're leaving yourself open briefly to counterattack by following through. That said, it's also what's required to make the cut.
I'd like to see the damage done to similar targets, but just with a tap of the blade instead.
I feel that the objects may not be severed, but the equivalent damage to a flesh and bone person would still be very debilitating.
I'm also thinking of it less full commitment, more as a circular movement just like a jab.
However the possibility to have two draw cuts one forward and one in return with the person's weight behind it would be very very unpleasant for soft targets. Sharp blades cut very well when being pushed and pulled just like they do in the kitchen.
Agree there, for me a flick cut is a cut from the guard position, no momentum or build up, just a punch out (jab) of the blade.
work the flick is the HEMA version of work the jab.
Great video and its nice to see these type of cuts showing effectiveness. Though someone who use to do Olympic fencing (OF) I was a bit mislead by the terminology. In OF we just call those cuts and flicks are something different. Flicks to my knowledge is an exclusive OF technique where you whip the blade in a way to cause it to bend and this allows you to reach around someone's guard similar to how a flail works. Since blades are more flexible than real swords and you don't need a lot of for to get the hit it works extremely well. Their are different style of flicks for each weapon.
Epee with the blade which is the stiffest you mainly slam your blade on the person's bell guard in order to make it bend and stab them in the forearm. I think its the most realistic of the 3 because I've seen people get injured by it.
Foil is where flicks are king. There is a blade made by Leon Paul (not the guitar company) call the "Flick Master". It looks like a scorpion's tail on how they use it and its impressive how they can stab you in the back while facing your front. I would love to see one of those foils get a sharpen tip and test to see how much penetration can actually be done with it.
Sabre is interesting because before 2000 the blades were super flimsy and it looks like they were fighting with silver pool noodles. They changed the rules to where they couldn't bend that much but they still have some flex along the flat. I've seen some fencer hold the sabre sideways and strike with the flat in order to flick.
Anyways I would be interested and seeing how effective they would be if they were real weapons (especially the foil). You would probably need to have an actual OF practitioner as flicks are not that easy to do and needs a lot of practice to use reliably. I don't think they would be very effective honestly but I do see some potential which is why I think its worth trying.
Yeah, these were like standard olympic saber cuts--although still with much more wrist and elbow and follow through that one wouldn't have in that sport. I'm guessing the hema context is "cuts that are very handy for scoring points, but are (arguably) less realistic in a historical swordfight simulation." Or, "stop doing olympic saber cuts in hema, ya wankers."
Right, yeah, I was looking to see some real flick type flicks, though I suppose those would have to be more thrust than cut, and possibly leave behind more mangled-looking water bottles. Also I recall those type of flicks being made somewhat easier by pistol grips, which we're obviously not going to see with these historical blades (besides the ones he was using that were not rapiers and not even likely to work whipping around like that)
I think even the "whippiest" of proper swords are still going to be far too stiff for a foil-style flick cut.
@@Tobascodagama But what if you took a foil and sharpen the tip to a spike? Pistol grip and all.
yes the foil (and at high level epee) flick, stops the blade short of the target and the tip comes around to depress the tip switch. There is no follow through the cut, it retracts back the same way from the stop. The geometry of actual swords make this much harder to achieve flexibility needed for a foil flick in the orientation of the cutting edge. However a short wrist flick cut on a sword as shown even without the follow Matt uses above will cut.
The sticking point when it comes to quick flicking cuts like this isn't so much the damage you can do compared to a stronger committed cut as it is the speed and accuracy. Skallagrim did a fantastic video about this same sort of topic where he was astounded that the light rising cut with the false edge completely destroyed the ballistic bone set hand that he propped up to test on (which actually disappointed him a little because he wanted to do more cuts). I used to attend a HEMA school where the entire focus of the instructor was hand snipes and what he called "stop thrusts". Where you deliberately aim for the hands. The techniques revolved around moving offline while aiming at the hand during your opponent's slash/thrust, or quickly flicking the hand before and after a slash/thrust. And he wasn't forgiving about the edge alinement either. "you can't just flail your blade at the hand and hope for the best." We also had hyper flexible plastic trainers with heavy duty gloves to practice with safer stuff then steel. But even that resulted in swollen knobby fingers. God forbid you duel without gauntlets with a bastard that can snipe with a real blade of even passing sharpness. If his edge alinement is good the fingers won't be. And of course Matt brought up the fact that any of these snipes connecting with the head, neck etc. No thank you.
but yeah at any rate great video Matt. Real shame that it's for real that hard to get tatami mats in England, but with how expensive everything is now I don't blame you if I'm honest.
I'm curious what I would search for to look for that video. Massive backlogs of content make this very difficult to find.
I don't know if they still make them, but Cold Steel used to have promotional videos in which they, usually with shorter blades, often demonstrated "snap cuts", same as your "flick cut", in pig and cow carcasses.
I'm just glad that some of us are prepared for the water bottle apocalypse.
Point taken! We’re not training for actual combat, thank the gods.
It's already upon us
You jest, but Greta is right there besides you for the battle to come.
@@user-ki1zc7qh2l How dare you!
I'm gonna show all the people who constantly tell me that power is everything this and then listen to them call the antique sword dealer a buffoon lol. I used to larp a lot, and I'm pleasantly surprised by how similar these strokes are to the "cuts" we threw on each other all the time.
As much as I love Matt's deep dives where he does a show and tell format of a topic, seeing him practice what he knows is a treat in itself.
Matt, with respect, I think that your instincts for good cutting are making it difficult for you to test the kind of thing that people are complaining about about. Look at 6:04-6:06 for example, your "flick cuts" are going through nearly 90 degrees of motion. That is not the kind of action that I complain about as invalid.
I did some experiments with tip flick cuts with the first smallsword/pocket rapier I made on a ham and a fairly substantial turkey breast-both cuts were 2-1/2 or 3" deep, and about 3" long.
Not so deep as a loch, nor as wide as a barn door, but it'll do
In fencing I was always told no flick cuts and I lost every match to flick cuts 🤷♂️. A flick cut seems to be for landing the point then followed through with thrust.
When I did Olympic fencing, my instructors never taught flick attacks. Then, a foemer member came to visit the club and did nothing but flicks. My instructors let me get welts on my back for 20 very confusing minutes before finally teaching me how to parry them. Needless to say, I was pissed.
I feel like it's important to point out that flicks in olympic epee/foil don't mean the same thing as flick cuts like Matt Easton is talking about here. A flick in foil is where you make a whipping motion, causing the blade tip to bend around the target's guard and hit them on the back of the shoulder, but the "flick cut" that HEMA people seem to be talking about would just be referred to in olympic sabre as... a cut. It's the default kind of cut, because it's the fastest to land.
What the H are you talking about. If you were fencing, the moment a score is registered the action stops. There is no second opportunity for another hit (score). Your language use seems to be non-fencing, but fantasy sword lingo. If you want to look at it in a realistic sense, then, a flick doesn't do much damage and you can follow it with a thrust which is well known (among the knowledgable) to be far more lethal than a cut.
A note on language and swordwork. "Thrust" implies a sudden jab of the arm in an attempt to use strength to push the point into a body. The way muscles work, a thrusting jab results in a shorter reach of the foible of the blade, which is the attacking tip of the sword (regardless of type). Genuine fencing technique teaches how to extend the sword from the hand to the arm, to the shoulder, and the legs then propel the tip further. With training, a fencer learns (if they have a real master teaching them) how to gain one to three inches of reach by extending the shoulder. This is not a natural movement and must be learned. The scapula is actually moved away from the thorax. Over time, the muscles learn how to do this. I once pulled a costal cartilage from my sternum, while executing an attack so energetically that when I pushed my sword out from my shoulder, (I was also executing a flying lunge), I pulled the cartilage with the muscles of my scapula. I understand this because I was also a sports chiropractor and took care of Olympic fencers in the U.S. and Slovenia. (I lad on the floor and set my own cartilage in place. I had to redo that for about a month).
That's very strange to me because, as a HEMA practitioner, my perception is that Olympic fencing is nothing but flicks and light movements to get contact. Olympic fencing seems to be more about touching than actual good quality cuts. The again, perhaps what you are calling a "flick cut vs normal cut" and what I would consider a "flick cut vs normal cut" are just two very different things.
@@deaddocreallydeaddoc5244 good for you.
This is such a a worthy point of exploration and consideration.
On the scale of esoteric information to practical information - we love esoteric information at times, but this is purely practical information and it should be noted and appreciate as such.
When i was learning Jian there was a lot of flicks used
Flicks are definitely useful and serve several purposes for me as tall fencer. Easy to snipe hands while staying relatively safe, keeps close fencers honest and they can’t just charge in, and just like the video that small quick cuts could definitely end a real sword fight or disable an opponent.
Kinda like a low telegraph cross instead of a big ole hook, the key being not too much wind up but full follow through.
And with Sharps you can usually get penetration instead of accidently pushing with blunts like the fists.
The beauty of missing out a couple of weeks is, that I can binge video releases that way and don't have to wait, like for this video after the video where it was said to be done haha. Nice stuff!
As an aside from the matter of cuts: this video was a great chance to see Matt's basic footwork. These videos are often shot in his studio/garage, and only show from the chest or waist up, due to space limitations - so all we normally see is the blade moving around the head and shoulders. Of course, Matt wasn't especially thinking about evasion or openings - but it's neat to see him "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" even against a water bottle.
I appreciate the effort. My critique is that, to me, a flick is where the sword is pulled back at the instant of intended contact. In epee it’s used to bend the tip around the opponents guard to hit the hand. I’d imagine a flick cut as following that same “giving a tap” like movement, where the sword is recovered back along the path of the cut
You addressed this by saying “not cutting through won’t be effective”, but for me, not cutting through is what makes it a flick. By cutting through your not testing flicks, but rather how chambered a standard cut needs to be to be effective in the lunge. Which for an excellent Victorian sabruer like yourselves is not very much.
One other factor to consider; Lighter swords & swords with better tip control, the kind of swords that lend themselves to 'flick cuts', can also give more precise cuts. So you may not be able to hit with as much force, but that force can be applied more precisely. Maybe you can't chop an arm off, but you can sever the tendons of the wrist...
A great medium if you are just testing cuts are pull noodles with wooden dowels inside them. I don't know how expensive they are in the UK but you can usually get a pull noodle for around $1.00-1.75 apiece and you can get bundles of dowels for a dowels for a decent price.
Glad to see the rain finally gave you a break long enough to get outdoors. Just wondering why when you demonstrate the flick cut on air it's quite small but when hitting a target you seem to follow through almost all the way across your body? Is the flick just on the "wind up" side of the stroke and not so much on the follow through? Thanks Matt.
The timing of this video is scary. I was just practicing small cuts this morning trying to make my actions shorter and faster. I don't usually really find energy to argue with people about what is or isn't effective, i just focus on utilizing whatever i'm studying regardless of whether my practice partners want to yield them as valid quality hits or good techniques. Today during practice however i just couldn't stop thinking about all the times i got lectured about how my cuts need larger motions and more impact to them, etc. So i guess despite thinking i never cared, the way some ignore the flicking cuts i make still had gotten a little under my skin.
You have one of the best channels on RUclips Matt. Just so you know.
This degenerated into just slicing up stuff for fun and I'm here for it! Love it Matt
Degenerated? I believe you meant to say “improved”!
Glad there is some response with a brain and some real tests. We don't want toxic people to go unopposed like what used to happen in hema when cult of personality people said x or y. I did get a lot of laughs from all the memes too which is also helpful in shutting up idiots. You really need both tactics to squash the dumb. Ridicule and reason work really well. Thanks Matt for crushing the reason tactic so well.
The shamshir always looks amazing. I really wonder what the handling of an oversized shamshir (to make up the reach compared to the other swords) would feel like in the hand. Though that cut seemed immaculate even at the very of the blade makes me reconsider if the reach is even an issue if it can cut that well NOT at the center of percussion.
Coming from the SCA and Buhurt side of the world, we primarily use these types of cuts, and for the simple reason that slower cuts tend to get blocked, dodged, or parried easily. "Flick cuts" are much less telegraphed. We also tend to fight in a much more defensive posture for the simple reason that if your sword is overly extended or brought back behind your head, a shield can easily be used to stop your motion.
Buhurt is bullshido
@@Caseyuptobat you're talking a lot of shit for someone who's never been hit with actual force.
@@tx7140 been stabbed with a pike so hard in the solar plexus I blacked out. Doesn't mean it wasn't bullshido
@@Caseyuptobat if it hurt you bad enough to knock you out, then it's not bullshido. You don't know what you're talking about. Keep watching HEMA videos on youtube and talking shit online. Actual martial practice is clearly too rigorous for you.
I’m also holding out for some reviews and test thrusts **and cuts** of the new LK Chen Spanish rapier. It’s much thinner than the previous rapiers they made so cutting will be a challenge, would make for good experimenting.
Before Matt starts, my supposition is:
1) minimal effectiveness vs fully armored. You have to hit joints & mail apt to prevent/minimalizes injury
2) effective against partial armored like just a Tauber with face or limbs susceptible
Probably not immediately disabling, likely more debilitating due blood loss
3) suspect very effective against unarmored
Wouldn't it be more dependent on blade design?
Now, to hear what Matt describes.
Almost all fencing treatises ever written were for an unarmored context, this armor argument is utterly pointless.
I’m glad you’re still going strong mate. I used to argue with you vigorously about the effectiveness of sport fencing vs hema. In any case, I use your channel as a reference. Cheers.
Comparing this to what you see in olympic fencing, I think there's a huge difference caused by the angle and design of the grips. In olympic it is all forward thrust, or flick cut, with very, very subtle movement off the line, usually to displace your opponents "sword" - and because that is the focus of the sport, the grips are often pistol-grips, and even those who prefer "old-school" grips usually have them angled, to assist the wrist.
I think you are seeing "larger" movements than you were intending, because there is no way to flick-cut with a straight sword with a linear grip with *any* authority, without activating your wrist quite a lot.
Or maybe I'm talking nonsense. It's been over a decade since I did any fencing at all. But, a thought.
I love how your conditioning kicks in after the cut and you jump backward. I can feel the sensation even by sitting in front of the PC XD
I33 has a swift high cut with the false edge with not much power, to the neck.
Joachim Meyer has a specific cut/thrust described in the daggersection killed the "riss" which is a cut with the tip of the dagger. This would be cool to see you do some tests on
I'm using the lowest playback speed of YT, and in all of these cuts you are actually doing much much more rotation than 90 degrees. In fact closer to 180 degrees.
You may argue that these are "flick cuts" the way you'd perform them in actual fencing. If so then we simply need to change our definition of what flick cuts are. They are not "minimal" and so we should not be surprised that they cut well.
By rotation, I believe Matt is talking 'angle of attack' (i.e. the rotation of the blade to its left and right) rather than how far back he pulls the blade towards himself before the blow. Most of these cuts appear to have been at a roughly 45 degree angle, i.e. not inheriting a bunch of slicing capability from a wide horizontal swing, yet still having enough cutting power from the flick forward to deeply cut even with this minimal rotation.
That's what I saw too, the flicks he does in the air are different than the cuts. It's a natural thing to do when trying to actually damage something but it's no flick.
As a former olympic fencer, what we called a flick would never make a cut. AS the "flick" referred to whipping the point down so it bends or "flicks" off line to have the button hit solid while the actual blade is out of line to the hit. This would not be possible with a cutting edge of any tip. A snap or whip cuts from the wrist, especially with any kind of body weight, should be more than enough speed and weight to make the cut as you demonstrate.
I would likely fall for a balestra/flick-retreat-balestra combo, because the flick would totally make me flinch and hesitate, no matter how much the flick actually cut, but especially so if it hurt. I'd get impaled. I would almost certainly move back, but I dunno if it would fully distract me from defense. Probably. A fast, low balestra is tough anyway. Idk.
Hey Matt, I don't disagree with your findings and you statement. No I would not want to be hot by you performing one of those cuts.
However my stance on flick cuts has remained unchanged. First I believe this falls under learn the "rules" before you learn when/where/how you can break them. Learn proper cutting mechanics and then you can optimize and refine the movement. An experienced practitioner can do a lot with a little. But a beginners or intermediates mechanics need work on fundamentals before they can throw an effective flick cut.
I probably err on the side of caution when it come to this, it's easier to see good mechanics in a large swing afterall. But also I don't find it fun when someone scores or wins based on cheeky contact without proper mechanics.
Most of the flick cuts I see and have a problem with, aren't like the ones you used. They generally start from a long point/iron gate position, and extend out (without rotation or pulling back), make contact and pull back (without follow-through), and generally don't engage the hips or put their body behind the cut when stepping.
That sound when he cut through the branch using shamshir was amazing
One thing that would add slightly to the power of these cuts (which I don't think I see Matt doing) is opening your hand towards the back of the cut, and "snapping" the sword back into a proper grip as you complete the cut. I used to use this mechanic a lot when cutting bamboo with a machete as a teenager, and since getting into HEMA have always been complemented on how much power I can produce from small flick cuts because of this technique.
Can you please do a vid on centre of percussion and the science behind 'what makes a good cutter', it's like archery I've never really got to work out a bows power in ft lbs
using length of bow , draw length and draw weight.
So it looks like every single cut was made with 70 or more degrees of rotation, which is the rule of tumb I've been given for calling a good hit.
So.
Maybe the first rapier cut on the milk bottle was noticeably less than 70, but yea, you're drawing back for each of those cuts instead of just flicking forward.
I'd be curious to see what a bit of wool or linen would do.
I do agree with the premise that you don't need a giant wind-up to make a successful cut
Yeah, he literally cannot stick to the flick when he tries to cut. The samshir cut basically started in the upper shoulder guard.
I think you're underestimating the fact that sure, the end of the rapier is quite far away from its center of percussion, but it's also the part that travels the quickest. And cutting low radius objects is all about speed. If it has very low mass it's a problem, but that rapier doesn't.
One inch punch. The mechanics of swinging or pushing are such that the force of a blow doesn't depend on a massive wind up! Once the weapon reaches max speed (like falling at terminal velocity) there's no gain from more distance travelled.
The vast majority of movement of a weapon or attacking limb in fighting arts is merely muscle fiber recruitment, and the need for that movement can be minimized by training, especially isometric or even better isokinetic training (isokinetic is essentially isometric training that is able to move across a distance). See also Bruce Lee's short one inch and three inch punching techniques which were based on isometric training to increase muscle fiber recruitment since isokinetic training wasn't commonly available in his era.
"A cut which moves in a large circle is going to have more power" isn't necessarily true. Two things matter for power: blade speed, and ability to apply force to keep the blade going at that speed against resistance ("kinetic chain"). A heavier blade takes longer to reach max speed for a given input strength, but a light blade can be accelerated quickly. Two identical blades going at the same speed with the same kinetic chain have the same power.
Watching this you can tell Matts the best fencer out of the swordtubers by a country mile, unreal form, footwork minimal wasted movement, and all this while just practicing on water bottles. In a swordtubers battle royal I’d be betting on him taking the win
Even with the Type 14 arming sword, the speed you show is impressive. The extra mass has to announce itself somehow, otherwise Newton would be angry.
I am really looking forward to the review of the LKChen Saxony military rapier. The design seems like a frightening cutter for a "rapier"
This was very interesting. I would like to see Matt try this technique with something akin to a spadroon. I'm aware that it's far from his favorite sword but it might be informative on how effective the technique could be with a slightly rubbish blade.
9:00 I would say this cut could be made without the retraction of the blade. The step makes this movement for you relative to your target so you may even have a longer than expected reach. I would love to see this cut done but only passing the tip halfway through the target. This would further show the potential damage with the least amount of telegraphing.
Matt, I'm going to have to agree, a lot of these cuts as many have said, myself included, would not consider these flick cuts. You have near full arm rotation on the fallow through. What you practice on the lead up to the cut, isnt the cut you actually make. So I would love to see cuts with minimum cutting beyond the target. Then compare how those cuts to these cuts. Thanks!! I will attempt some next cutting day as well.
I agree
I've practiced cutting water bottles before, and the absolute hardest to cut were tiny half-pint bottles. The wall thickness to the weight made them very challenging, even more so because I was mostly cutting with kukris.
When I was practising cuts and edge alignment with my katana I saw, in due time, that a flick cut is good enough. It's just a quick shallow cut but done right it's a clean and easy shallow cut that can cost life or limb and leaves you with good position to either further aggression or defense.
You don't need to chop off a limb to end a fight. And you'd be surprised how deep a good cutter can bite with proper technique.
How about something more like modern fencing technique, where there’s no windup? I feel like “flick” means “from guard in front of you, just extend forward.” All these movements back before the cut are slow/non-flicks/telegraph your attacks.
I agree with you there, thats what a flick means to me also. There may be a degree of rotation of the hand, as so the arm would be moving forward and at no point backwards first before the strike as per the video.
In battle, you would use the first 2 to 3 inches of that rapier. And yes, you would go right through rib cages on purpose with a flicking cut.
Although you would attempt to cut the flesh from the rib rather than sever the rib.
Or like I stated earlier. Remove the flesh from face.
Love seeing the difference between a fencing saber and these swords.
With fencing I used more to pinch the hilt and use the wrist. What makes a very fast hit. But its not possible with these real more heavy swords. It's more like a tennis movement.
Great video, Matt! It would be nice to see some more curved blades there, as you said yourself that it changes the way cut is applied and olympic fencing sabre comes from real sabres, which were curved. There's a great range of those too with different curvatures and thicknesses of the blades.
I'm by no means an expert, I only fenced for a few years and it was all sport fencing, but I dealt and received my share of hits. And I definitely wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of a flick made with a sharp sword aimed at wrist or fingers (assuming open grip). It doesn't need to cut a lot.
I don't do practice cutting, so when I think of tatami mats I think of rigid pads an inch thick used as flooring in houses.
Rolling those up and cutting them would be impressive.
When I was a kid my dad had these prop swords in the garage that my brother and I used to play with. My brother did a flick cut type of thing to me and caught my wrist and ended up fracturing it. I can totally see a quick cut, with the type of force behind it meant to cause harm would do a good amount of damage.
Thanks for the great video Matt! Love seeing you using swords. On that note, are there any plans for some sparring videos from your club? I think it's such a great learning resource and I hope we can see more of it!
just reacting to when you said "scary sharp" about the arming sword in the first round of cutting -- The first time I held a real blade, and I (stupidly) tested the edge with a finger, my perspective on the reality of these weapons shifted and sank deep into my bones.
Let me answer from the perspective of someone who had suffered injury from a table saw accident.
I've stumbled during work at the wood lab. Brushed my fingers against the saw blade. Luckily just flesh wound. Didn't hurt my ligament, bones or joints...just tore through the flesh of four of my fingers.
It was painful and incapacitated me from holding anything and it bled like crazy. I held my hand above my head to reduce danger of extreme blood loss, the blood dripping over my arms and all over my hair.
So yeah, just a flicking injury at the right place is fatal in a fight. It really is plenty. You don't need to hack and butcher through your opponent.
Also need I mentioned since l was injured at the place with lots of nerve point...it hurt like crazy!
Fab dondi kinda did a video on this. It was on the life of Donald Mcbane and the time his got jumped by 7 people. Mcbane wrote a book about it. Stay at the edges of a C, have two weapons, he used a light cut and thrust sword and his cane, and do a bunch of smacking motions and follow it with light flicking cuts to the wrist or elbow. Very low commit because you have to be ready to defend yourself at any time cus flipping seven against one. It is fun video, the guy and he buddies actually recreate the incident and the advice works very well.
In truth, I was not at all surprised.
That was great fun!! Watching you cut wood! Cheers mate!
Nice cuts! It’s difficult to overcome your train cutting mechanics to just flick. I’ve cut water bottles holding my long sword as little as 2-4” from the bottle, then exhaling and just yanking the blade through the bottle with a twist through my core. I was surprised that the cuts were so clean and easy.
Yeah Matt i guess made lot of the cuts with wider motion he intended because his training.
@@lalli8152 We put a lot of effort into training out bad habits and training in good habits to the point its something hard to demonstrate the poor behaviour, even when show beginner student, “do it like this, ah, except you fail!” 😂
Like a one-inch-punch alla Bruce Lee.
Agree with Matt. Also I like how he handles swords as weightless feathers.
Flick cuts can do nasty things, even with the knives, swords are bigger and have more inertia. Sharpness states the damage. (to invulnerable ppl - So it's not a good idea to interpret over a blunt practice sword to evaluate the situation, or spar xp )
I would love to see where the line is between cut and not cut with movement of the swrd
Can't wait for the full review of the LK chen saxony rapier 🗡️🗡️🗡️
the uneven curvature of the shamshir blade probably made it better at near tip cuts
Cannot wait for the teased video on sword sharpening!!
Thanks! I’d like to see more competition-legal moves tested on other swords
Thank you for some fascinating experimentation. Since you mentioned that you will do future videos with other cutting targets, would you consider doing one where the targets are wrapped in period-like cloth?
Would a cut, from midline out, be more efficient than the outside to midline shown here?
In some of the 18th and early 19th centuries manuals, isn't this type of cut often described as a cut "thrown" at the target? The context is often in relation to a cut at the arm as part of parry and repost. I have understood that as a fairly minimal motion from the context.
Excellent demonstration. Would love to see more.
To test a summary sword that is supposedly subsharp. It could cut a God. You are to stand the sword in a perfect horizontal and bring it down 90° and across a swinging rope.
Completely severing the rope. The rope being 4 inches in diameter. This kind of sharplus on a blade is considered one that would allow you to do the ripping of stim to Stern on a meat target.
Without a single rip
Congrats on 10x-ing your subs since I started following! New subs should go look at the old content, lots of quality stuff there, and hardly anything's out of date :)
So, a RAPIER REALLY CAN ✂ CUT, surprise! all the old treaties that include cutting were right! 😀 Also for those who don't know Olympic fencing a "flick" involves a lot of bending of the blade, to the point that it goes over the head flexes and hits the back. It happens in saber,, but it's more prevalent in foil, the blades are super flexible. Saber only needs a touch, no edge required, for foil the speed and torsion of the blade is so powerful that it activates the button and marks a "hit". Cheers
So this has inspired me to try and do more test cutting, I just need to get a sharp sword. How good are the sabres from LK Chen? How do they compare to historical examples?
In my old hema school I was ordered not to flick at the end of cuts. I never used it to generate power, it was moreso a natural extension of joint flexing during a cut
Because people tend to over extend and end up hurting their joints.
@@18ps3anos it takes a lot of practice to do wrist flicks right.
And to do elbow and shoulder flicks at all.
Thank you as always for the video and the demonstration
Interesting trick I was told by a museum curator friend on how to easily find the centre of percussion is to slap the sword on the flat or the guard and note where along the blade the sword doesn't vibrate. That's your centre of percussion right there.
Unfortunately that's a common misconception. That shows you one of the vibrational nodes, but that is not the centre of percussion. In many swords is just so happens that the node is in the region of the centre of percussion, but it's not always the case and they are separate things. I made this mistake myself for many years - even shown in some early videos on this channel.
but we are not hitting our targets with the flat, are we?
@@scholagladiatoria - ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification on this! Seems like something that coincidentally happened to be true many times but doesn't always hold.
I would have like to have seen back-handed flicks too, but good video. Interesting to compare reality with accepted thinking.
If your rotation was more than intended perhaps try a Bruce Lee 1 inch cut?
So tomorrow we get a 3 h bullshit response from Shad?
Nasty, but neither lethal nor fight-ending (generally), which means they have a place depending on the context of the combat or even the milisecond by milisecond within.
This is fantastic. Can you do one with weak edge or false edge flick cuts?
Do you think maybe you had a hard time replicating the effects of a flick cut in bouting because in a bout the other fencer's body stops the sword, but when you were cutting that didn't happen, resulting in you getting more rotation in your cut than you were trying for?