Been working with them for 2 years. Perfect for all kinds of shapes and rough materials. Also use them for drilling and milling all turning pieces that are finished.
Seems like a well designed and flexible work holding system. One thing to add, I was always taught never to use a torque wrench to undo bolts that are tightened - I would use a breaker bar or similar.
well if u are using cheap torque wrenches then they can get damaged at some point , i have been undooing bolts for the last 7 years with the same torque wrench and its still working properly . But u are right about it.
@@dalef7933 because bolts seize for a variety of reasons and the torque required to loosen the bolt could be over the rating of your wrench. Also we are taught to not use a torque wrench as a ratchet. Use a ratchet and then switch to the torque wrench for the final tightening. TW are a precision instrument that should be treated that way. Though I'm guessing most shops don't calibrate them on a regular schedule or keep records. Probably aren't working on aircraft, that kill people when they break down, either
@@harryho9097 it will definitely do the same thing, especially if it's hitting it's calibrated torque value and continuing to put torque on it in loosening the vise. One simple rule with torque wrenches: use them to torque to spec, NOTHING else. As long as you remember that, you're golden.
so what should I do if I have left hand threaded bolt which requires 2x compare to what is required for vise? can't use a torque wrench even if it's designed to work in both directions and with desired torque values?
@@barrysetzer I feel dumb sometimes too when I watch some video's or meet up with other guys on a CAM training day. On the other hand, when you and your boss is happy with the work you do and willing to learn, there is no reason to feel dumb. I'm sure everyone can learn from each other if they're open for it. This week I learned to deep drill small holes which we don't have to do often and now I'm confident that we'll save a lot of time and glad I now know how to do it.
@@barrysetzer hahahaha I think we need to see a machine off competition between you two lol. Love the content my brother! One heck of a dream team you guys have going there.
Over the years I’ve picked up several lathe chucks that were orphans and mounted them on plates that I can bolt in the mill. Great for round stuff. I can hold really odd shaped parts in pie piece shaped soft jaws in the independent 4 jaw one. I’ve seen a solution like this that used dowel pins set in the vise hard jaws, but I can’t remember the exact setup.
Great fixturing. I'd have to do that "single fixture" 100 times though to pay for that Vice and those special jaws. Not sure how to sell my boss on this now but I'm glad I know they exist. You can never know too many ways to hold stock, especially round stock on a mill.
Check out Mitee bite Versa Grip Jaws. They operate on the same (albeit slightly less heavy duty or flexible) principle. They also cost about 1/10th the Schunk system and can be adapted to more standard 4/6/8" vises.
Wow! I just drop a V-block in my standard vise and get a good 3-point clamp on whatever round or irregular stock I am cutting. I could use two V-blocks if I thought 4 contact points were better.
Off topic, but what is that unique looking firearm in your profile pic? (If it is even a firearm. I'm not sure I can make out the details in the low resolution photo.)
@@Gameboygenius Steyr "Free Pistol". A single shot .22 used in international competition. I have won state championship matches, but was not good enough to make the Olympic shooting team. The trigger pull is a fraction of one ounce, literally 1000 times less than a normal 12 pound double action revolver.
@@BenAtTheTube Thanks for the reply. Talk about a hair trigger... It looks like a precision device. Not surprised to see that in the comments of a metal working video.
I would never use my torque wrench to loosen bolts like that. I know manufacturers say it’s fine but with a tool that’s calibrated for one direction use I just don’t feel it’s worth saving the couple seconds to use a different tool. Just my two cents.
Even easier with Lang vices. They do jaws designed to hold round stock, you just wind the hard jaws off the ends and put the round stock jaws on. No bolts. Takes about a minute to do.
@@PetesShredder Two different situations. Those are centering vise's, which are for a completely different type of work than a vise with a fixed jaw. And even though their Makro 4 Grip and Vastro jaws may be "easier," they are just not as rigid. Anytime you're clamping a round piece of stock with >3 points of contact, when those >3 points don't have any degrees of freedom, clamping forces will be uneven and weakened. I assume you're talking about the Makro 4 Grip and our the Vastro, because your part number it's just for a standard centering vise for a multi axis machine with a rotary axis table, not a multi axis machine with an x, y linear table. The only way the the Makro 4 Grip jaws work is because they're designed to severely deform the stock to take up any of the radial asymmetry problems that the Schunk vise deals with using rotating inserts and a pivoting dynamic jaw; without having to bite and deform the stock so severely. And depending on the hardness of the stock, you may not be able to deform it sufficiently to hold it securely. Also, depending on how out of round the stock is, you may not be able to deform it sufficiently to hold it securely. Holding a round part at >3 points with no degrees of freedom just doesn't work as well as this system.
Hello, could you perhaps make a comparison between cheaper and more expensive tools like endmills, taps, drills etc. I believe both have their uses in a shop.
That's easy. Use the cheaper tools when you want to waste money and scrap product. Use quality tools that won't let you down and profitability and productivity will increase. NEVER buy or use Chinese made end mills, drills, taps, or dies.
@@Turboy65 cheap Chinese end mills are the only thing in my workshop. Can't afford champagne on a beer budget, when beer is nearly breaking the bank. I need to find a way to make my CNC earn me some money, then maybe I could afford something a little better.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering i mean even the cheapest of endmills can do , but u usually cant run them at any decent feed where u can really make profit out of it
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Then expensive end mills might just turn your whole world around. If you get them running right they last much longer than 300 percent the price. If you can quadruple your tool life then better tooling alone saves you money and time from not having to change them as much. Some things never pay off in a job shop and cheap end mills are one of them. Those end mills are designed to make money for the company you bought them from not to advance the industry. Which side do you want to be on?
@@LordOfChaos.x currently I don't think I am even coming close to taxing the capability of even the cheapest end mills. Still making too many rookie mistakes and breaking bits to ever contemplating buying something expensive. I cringe when I see how much material Titan removes. It's mostly an experience and confidence thing. I hope one day my abilities justify buying decent cutters.
Vise was up, why take it down to put up a 10" or 12" chuck on the table. He was showing speed and versatility of this tool. How it can become a game changer when doing one offs or a small run of parts.
So instead of tweaking your current setup, you'd rather tear it all down and start from scratch, again? Sounds very slow and inefficient to me? But hey, I've been doing this for going on 11 yrs, these guys probably even longer. What do we know??
Going to need soft jaws for that, or use the flat face of these clamps. I assume this is just to prevent having to make the extra pair of soft jaws for op1
@@ClockwerkIndustries On op1 you could use the chuck instead and not worry about marks. That's the reason why soft jaws are made, for best and most precise clamping without leaving marks. With that said, i would get one of these anyway, seem like could be really handy sometimes, anything to make life and job easier.
Funny to see you guys using Snap On, as their cordless tools are the biggest grift in power tools. I use the Milwaukee M12 ratchet for changing vise jaws and it has been amazing. Dramatically speeds up loosening and tightening and you can use it to break bolts free and provide final snugging, though obviously not to a torque spec.
Because that would take longer than changing the jaws out. And you may not have the table space. Like here on this mill we have a fixture mounted to the side of the vise so there is no place for a chuck at this time.
I believe the clamping forces are higher then most regular 3jaw chucks. It is faster, if the vice is already on and you can clamp very large stock (you would need a gigantic chuck). Also, you can clamp odd shapes
You don't absolutely have to use a tq wrench to install Jaws etc, but in the variable world of machining, as much consistency as possible is key and that eliminates a variable. It's a good idea really.
Almost 6,000$ us for that setup . Wow…. 100$ set of soft jaws …. Yah shunk is high end but at the end of the day , a hard sell unless you have money to burn. Half hour to set up jaws . Half hour to program and cut them …. Yah old school thinking , however when your company says we have 15000 a month for an entire shop of machines including cutters , materials for fixtures , machine maintenance, etc etc , 6000 is a hard sell , almost like gold plated wrenches….
We have had those pendulum jaws…everything was vibrating as hell. At the end, all the Jaws went to the rubbish. I would never ever buy these jaws again!!!
.0001 precision is what his T-shirt says….that’s insane tolerances, no question aerospace and military grade items being produced. That’s something I’ve learned about machine shops, the more importance an item your job makes the higher pay for the machinist. Where as I machine parts for Chicken fryers and only make $35k a year BEFORE taxes 😂😂😂
Watching you use a torque wrench to break and loosen bolts makes your audience cringe my man. Didnt your mom teach you that you should never use a torque wrench to loosen and only torque?! Lol
Wer montiert so schlecht den Grunkörper!!! Pratzen sind zuweit auseinander. Beim Spannen drückt es den Schraubstock hohl probierts aus 0.02mm Fühllehrenband geht bestimmt drunter...
Been working with them for 2 years. Perfect for all kinds of shapes and rough materials. Also use them for drilling and milling all turning pieces that are finished.
Seems like a well designed and flexible work holding system. One thing to add, I was always taught never to use a torque wrench to undo bolts that are tightened - I would use a breaker bar or similar.
well if u are using cheap torque wrenches then they can get damaged at some point , i have been undooing bolts for the last 7 years with the same torque wrench and its still working properly . But u are right about it.
I was thinking the same thing about the torque wrench. Unless you are checking the breaking torque to see if it has come loose
Why does it matter torque is torque and loosening a right hand bolt is no different than tightening a left hand bolt
@@dalef7933 because bolts seize for a variety of reasons and the torque required to loosen the bolt could be over the rating of your wrench. Also we are taught to not use a torque wrench as a ratchet. Use a ratchet and then switch to the torque wrench for the final tightening. TW are a precision instrument that should be treated that way. Though I'm guessing most shops don't calibrate them on a regular schedule or keep records. Probably aren't working on aircraft, that kill people when they break down, either
You guys probably only use impact sockets on impacts as well jesus
You guys got the dream shop for jobbing to make life easier. 💕
0:55 You should never use a torque wrench to loosen bolts. Shortens the life of your calibration.
So you keep a regular check on the calibration of your torque wrenches? How often do you check the calibration and how do you verify it’s calibrated?
I wrote the same thing. every one he broke free made me cringe!
I got a question. how about loosen the vise? Is that going to shorten the life too?
@@harryho9097 it will definitely do the same thing, especially if it's hitting it's calibrated torque value and continuing to put torque on it in loosening the vise. One simple rule with torque wrenches: use them to torque to spec, NOTHING else. As long as you remember that, you're golden.
so what should I do if I have left hand threaded bolt which requires 2x compare to what is required for vise? can't use a torque wrench even if it's designed to work in both directions and with desired torque values?
First time I've ever seen a set of jaws that versatile. Awesome!
I have them too and they helped me a lot in the past so they're definitely a nice addition to your shop.
Yeah i actually feel dumb watching this video, as i bought a chuck without realizing we had these.
@@barrysetzer now you have an extra chuck lol.
Shhhhhhh dont tell the boss
@@barrysetzer I feel dumb sometimes too when I watch some video's or meet up with other guys on a CAM training day. On the other hand, when you and your boss is happy with the work you do and willing to learn, there is no reason to feel dumb. I'm sure everyone can learn from each other if they're open for it. This week I learned to deep drill small holes which we don't have to do often and now I'm confident that we'll save a lot of time and glad I now know how to do it.
Funny between you and Barry lol
It aint funny, jessie is just jealous
Lol you gotta take a shot when you see an opportunity
@@barrysetzer hahahaha I think we need to see a machine off competition between you two lol. Love the content my brother! One heck of a dream team you guys have going there.
Over the years I’ve picked up several lathe chucks that were orphans and mounted them on plates that I can bolt in the mill. Great for round stuff. I can hold really odd shaped parts in pie piece shaped soft jaws in the independent 4 jaw one. I’ve seen a solution like this that used dowel pins set in the vise hard jaws, but I can’t remember the exact setup.
I personally like the mitee bite versa grip jaws. Only needs .100 of material to grab onto when using the black teeth.
in intro of the video..
doosan in the ground-right looks awesome 😬
Great fixturing. I'd have to do that "single fixture" 100 times though to pay for that Vice and those special jaws. Not sure how to sell my boss on this now but I'm glad I know they exist. You can never know too many ways to hold stock, especially round stock on a mill.
I'm sure a cheap, but much less accurate, version of this can be made with only using 3 jaws instead of 4.
Check out Mitee bite Versa Grip Jaws. They operate on the same (albeit slightly less heavy duty or flexible) principle. They also cost about 1/10th the Schunk system and can be adapted to more standard 4/6/8" vises.
Excellent work, its amazing how creatively ideas, can save significant time!
I always see you guys using torque wrenches. What is the proper p.s.i in a machine workholding environment?
Breaking bolts with a torque wrench …… interesting …. - need to get yourself a good m18 Milwaukee impact wrench, improve those set up times
Not quite as interesting as it is cringey! That was the first thing I learned about torque wrenches - you use them to torque. That's it. Never break.
I like that vice .
That vise is an absolute MONSTER
Man the built-in torque adjustment is so nice. It guarantees that every part is torqued the same.
Wow! I just drop a V-block in my standard vise and get a good 3-point clamp on whatever round or irregular stock I am cutting. I could use two V-blocks if I thought 4 contact points were better.
Off topic, but what is that unique looking firearm in your profile pic? (If it is even a firearm. I'm not sure I can make out the details in the low resolution photo.)
@@Gameboygenius Steyr "Free Pistol". A single shot .22 used in international competition. I have won state championship matches, but was not good enough to make the Olympic shooting team. The trigger pull is a fraction of one ounce, literally 1000 times less than a normal 12 pound double action revolver.
@@BenAtTheTube Thanks for the reply. Talk about a hair trigger...
It looks like a precision device. Not surprised to see that in the comments of a metal working video.
I would never use my torque wrench to loosen bolts like that. I know manufacturers say it’s fine but with a tool that’s calibrated for one direction use I just don’t feel it’s worth saving the couple seconds to use a different tool. Just my two cents.
Even easier with Lang vices. They do jaws designed to hold round stock, you just wind the hard jaws off the ends and put the round stock jaws on. No bolts. Takes about a minute to do.
I'd like to see that. I'll have to look them up. 😎 But when you already have Schunk vices you have the best I've worked with.
And the vice they go on is 48355-125. I don't work for them or anything, im just familiar with their catalogue.
@@PetesShredder Two different situations. Those are centering vise's, which are for a completely different type of work than a vise with a fixed jaw. And even though their Makro 4 Grip and Vastro jaws may be "easier," they are just not as rigid. Anytime you're clamping a round piece of stock with >3 points of contact, when those >3 points don't have any degrees of freedom, clamping forces will be uneven and weakened. I assume you're talking about the Makro 4 Grip and our the Vastro, because your part number it's just for a standard centering vise for a multi axis machine with a rotary axis table, not a multi axis machine with an x, y linear table. The only way the the Makro 4 Grip jaws work is because they're designed to severely deform the stock to take up any of the radial asymmetry problems that the Schunk vise deals with using rotating inserts and a pivoting dynamic jaw; without having to bite and deform the stock so severely. And depending on the hardness of the stock, you may not be able to deform it sufficiently to hold it securely. Also, depending on how out of round the stock is, you may not be able to deform it sufficiently to hold it securely. Holding a round part at >3 points with no degrees of freedom just doesn't work as well as this system.
LANG is superior in every way 💪🏼😉
I like that adapter set. Very versatile.
Didn't no that even existed! Thank you for sharing your tricks!
Exelente agarre saludos 👍
Hello, could you perhaps make a comparison between cheaper and more expensive tools like endmills, taps, drills etc. I believe both have their uses in a shop.
That's easy. Use the cheaper tools when you want to waste money and scrap product. Use quality tools that won't let you down and profitability and productivity will increase. NEVER buy or use Chinese made end mills, drills, taps, or dies.
@@Turboy65 cheap Chinese end mills are the only thing in my workshop. Can't afford champagne on a beer budget, when beer is nearly breaking the bank. I need to find a way to make my CNC earn me some money, then maybe I could afford something a little better.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering i mean even the cheapest of endmills can do , but u usually cant run them at any decent feed where u can really make profit out of it
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Then expensive end mills might just turn your whole world around. If you get them running right they last much longer than 300 percent the price. If you can quadruple your tool life then better tooling alone saves you money and time from not having to change them as much. Some things never pay off in a job shop and cheap end mills are one of them. Those end mills are designed to make money for the company you bought them from not to advance the industry.
Which side do you want to be on?
@@LordOfChaos.x currently I don't think I am even coming close to taxing the capability of even the cheapest end mills. Still making too many rookie mistakes and breaking bits to ever contemplating buying something expensive. I cringe when I see how much material Titan removes. It's mostly an experience and confidence thing. I hope one day my abilities justify buying decent cutters.
Nice tool but a 3 or 4 jaw chuck is would be my tool of choice or V jaw in a standard vice.
Vise was up, why take it down to put up a 10" or 12" chuck on the table. He was showing speed and versatility of this tool. How it can become a game changer when doing one offs or a small run of parts.
So instead of tweaking your current setup, you'd rather tear it all down and start from scratch, again? Sounds very slow and inefficient to me? But hey, I've been doing this for going on 11 yrs, these guys probably even longer. What do we know??
How about if you have to work on the other side of the piece? Those jaws leave visible mark on the piece.
Going to need soft jaws for that, or use the flat face of these clamps. I assume this is just to prevent having to make the extra pair of soft jaws for op1
@@ClockwerkIndustries On op1 you could use the chuck instead and not worry about marks. That's the reason why soft jaws are made, for best and most precise clamping without leaving marks. With that said, i would get one of these anyway, seem like could be really handy sometimes, anything to make life and job easier.
If you got OP1 done and it is still round, consider going to a lathe in the first place
What torque do you normally use?
Now that's labor cost saver for sure 👍👍😁, thx will have to look into them,
Awesome! Nice work J dog
And fyi if lovvvvvving metal’s wrong…..i dont wanna be right
You’re the metal head version of a Tree hugger.
Thanks big bear lol I agree!
Funny to see you guys using Snap On, as their cordless tools are the biggest grift in power tools. I use the Milwaukee M12 ratchet for changing vise jaws and it has been amazing. Dramatically speeds up loosening and tightening and you can use it to break bolts free and provide final snugging, though obviously not to a torque spec.
Yo how many time did u took on those vise sp many clamped aluminum gripped mark on em
I wonder if Titans of CNC offer on the job training
Not sure i get this one. You have to buy a $2700 vise and then $2200 pendulum jaw set, which is cheaper than cutting $30 soft jaws? 🤔
Or use chuck to hold the part
Why not use an old chuck with the outside jaws fitted, wont damage the part either..
Do 3 jaw chucks no longer exist?
How did you guys zero'd that part ?
Well, it is nice but you also have the thing that is perfect for holding round pieces and it is located in the lathe...
As a mill guy, I find lathes offensive 😂
@@barrysetzer as a millturn guy.... I'm very smug rn.
Lmao @angrydragonslayer. Youre a mill guy with a lathe alter ego
@@barrysetzer ;)
@@angrydragonslayer totally picture you on a mill, and ripping your shirt off to show your LATHE superman gear
You shouldnt use the trq wrench to loosen bolts...I can affect accuracy when torquing.
Awesome tooling!
This is cool and all but why not just slap a 3 or 4 jaw chuck in the mill?
Because that would take longer than changing the jaws out. And you may not have the table space. Like here on this mill we have a fixture mounted to the side of the vise so there is no place for a chuck at this time.
I believe the clamping forces are higher then most regular 3jaw chucks. It is faster, if the vice is already on and you can clamp very large stock (you would need a gigantic chuck). Also, you can clamp odd shapes
Cool tooling.
It's pretty much based on old fractal vise
Oh me likely!
Could we get a toolbox walkthrough👀👀. Maybe of a couple of different employees
See below lol
Hey Titan, are you sale those shirts ? I’d loved to get one
Yes we sell the shirts on our online store. Tools too, check it out!
Just use a lathe chuck men!!
Seems pretty obvious to me as well. I've see it done years ago as well.
well for .. 2200 I'll keep using a 3 jaw chuck mounted on a baseplate
LOL, a torque wrench!! I would have been escorted out the door if I told the boss I needed a torque wrench to put vice jaws on.
You don't absolutely have to use a tq wrench to install Jaws etc, but in the variable world of machining, as much consistency as possible is key and that eliminates a variable. It's a good idea really.
I don't know what PTSD feels like, but watching Barry seducing inanimate objects sure does trigger something anxiety-inducing inside me.
Almost 6,000$ us for that setup . Wow…. 100$ set of soft jaws …. Yah shunk is high end but at the end of the day , a hard sell unless you have money to burn. Half hour to set up jaws . Half hour to program and cut them …. Yah old school thinking , however when your company says we have 15000 a month for an entire shop of machines including cutters , materials for fixtures , machine maintenance, etc etc , 6000 is a hard sell , almost like gold plated wrenches….
The vises alone are $3500 up to $5K. 😲
I cannot believe you used a torque wench to loosen bolts
For safety reasons, why are you guys aloud to wear rings and chains?
I thought it was the king of queens guy.
Three jaw chuck.
We have had those pendulum jaws…everything was vibrating as hell. At the end, all the Jaws went to the rubbish. I would never ever buy these jaws again!!!
Or just use a V-block
Or so..!!!
ok guys, we all got the idea right. now go and make one just like this for yourself out of steel or aluminum lol
.0001 precision is what his T-shirt says….that’s insane tolerances, no question aerospace and military grade items being produced. That’s something I’ve learned about machine shops, the more importance an item your job makes the higher pay for the machinist. Where as I machine parts for Chicken fryers and only make $35k a year BEFORE taxes 😂😂😂
Мало нулей на футболке😂😂😂
Very not fast 😅
$2200 bucks. OOof. Hope it pays good to make those parts.
.0001
2nd
Dont need that torque wrench just do 2 ugga chugga haha
Cringing at the use of a torque wrench for loosening bolts...
Hahaha 0.0001mm bedeutet für mich 0.00001mm genau messen die Maschine möchte ich sehen
Elon musk let himself go ...
Couldn’t you just drill and tap a set of soft jaws and make these yourself and save a bunch of money? Same concept just not as pretty.
Watching you use a torque wrench to break and loosen bolts makes your audience cringe my man.
Didnt your mom teach you that you should never use a torque wrench to loosen and only torque?! Lol
Ouch. Never LOOSEN bolts with a torque wrench! Use a breaker-bar!
Wer montiert so schlecht den Grunkörper!!! Pratzen sind zuweit auseinander. Beim Spannen drückt es den Schraubstock hohl probierts aus 0.02mm Fühllehrenband geht bestimmt drunter...
WOW. American using metric system and wearing t-shirt promoting imperial. You don't see that every day 🤣🤣🤣
JUST GIVE ME A 10 INCH KURT VISE & SOFT JAWS OR A 3 JAW CHUCK MOUNTED TO THE TABLE.