Sam Seder Breaks Down His Debates With Libertarians (featuring Jason Myles)
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Majority Report host Sam Seder joins Ben to talk about some of the highlights and recurrent themes of his many, many debates with libertarians. Ben and Sam have debated many of the same libertarians including Dave Smith, Walter Block, and Adam Kokesh. In this interview, Ben and Sam break down clips of Michael's "Evil Bernie" impression, Sam's "when did you stop beating your girlfriend" example, former 2012 Libertarian Party candidate Darryl Perry, and Libertarian radio show host Matt Digeronimo. They also discuss Ben's debate with Walter Block. This is Revolution podcast host Jason Myles joins the interview halfway through.
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The sound of Michael losing his shit in the background over the garbage of libertarians is genuinely one of the funniest things I've ever witnessed.
Michael's laughter is like angels singing. RIP - so dearly missed
@@VariantNode Indeed
I miss Michael so much
So say we all
me too
Yea. And damn RUclips has started recommending his old videos to me.
His laugh...
I stopped listening to TMR once he passed. It wasn't intentional and it's not a criticism, just expressing what his value was to me.
Miss Michael so much ☹️
He was such a legend. I went through his "illicit history" playlist on his channel recently and it's really high quality stuff.
I'm on the floor, again
One of my main intellectual influences for sure. He had a TON of potential
Right? Supervillian Bernie is fucking hilarious.
@@EdwardBIl "the pure fking debauchery"
I’ve courted the conversion of two libertarians, by directing them to Sam’s libertarian debate videos. I did it by saying, “It’s the guy who voices Hugo on Bob’s Burgers”
That gets em first time, every time.
This is honestly genius and I’m stealing it
@@ryandavidtrapasso please do.
I've had a playlist of Sam's libertarian debates on my channel for a couple years now. It's my go to link when I find one in the wild.
Seeing Sam get a kick out of himself and Michael annoying Libertarians was fun.
Sam's point on the steps to Utopia is a mind set that most leftists should have. No more of this "either you're all the way in or you're an enemy," BS you see online right now.
Sam is Kingggg 🙏🏾💖
Sam Seder vs Libertarians is the same as Sovereign Citizens vs Judge/Lawyer.
left is best
Man, I totally get what Sam is saying: at the time I thought Michael was a bit taking away from the conversation with his constant riffing in the background (although Evil Bernie was objectively the funniest thing ever), but seeing it now makes me appreciate him so much more. These guys are so oblivious to how incredibly easily their ideology falls apart and the only reason to not ridicule them is because you don’t want them to hang up the phone in frustration.
Love it when we get to hear the source for audio drops in that song Majority Report used to play. "I'm sorry I upset you," "heyheyhey shutup!"
RUclips algorithms brought me to you because of Sam Seder and I am happy to subscribe and hear more of your show. Good Job!
Micheal had so much potential. I definitely think he could have become one of the greats in just a short few more years. His emphasis on international politics is SEVERELY missed in the "online left" ever since. Nobody on the platform came close to global analysis.
Agreed, but Left Reckoning has been having some great guests and segments focused on global analysis (in case you haven't watched.)
We should all aspire to continue Michael's legacy by finding ways to reach out of our own echo-chambers and spread socialist ideas and truths about history. It's unfortunate that his talents are naturally rare; being very entertaining but humble and understanding at the same time.
The dynamic in that intro brought tears to my eyes.
A few years ago I was consuming a lot of libertarian messaging via podcasts, RUclips lectures etc and had started to buy in to what I was hearing. There was always a voice in the back of my mind telling me that it was a bad position to take and in order to test the theory I searched for arguments against libertarianism and came across Sam's debates, and the scales fell from my eyes almost immediately. This stuff sounds great unchallenged but as soon as it comes into contact with somebody who knows how to argue against it, it falls apart in seconds. Keep it up Sam.
Sam "Sam" Seder 🤣
I miss Michael Brooks so much.
I'm mostly agnostic but strongly believe sam and michael were doing god's work. it's grueling, it's hard, and shout out to both of them for making it fun dispatching libertarians.
RIP Michael. That Bernie riff was amazing.
You'll notice that when libertarians can't answer basic logistical or socratic questions, or respond to scenarios their philosophy could address, the retreat to moral accusations...
This was awesome!!!! Michael would be very pleased
"We gotta start the clock of private property rights when america was colonized but uhhh also america government bad." -libertarian calculus
As the Viscount of black people, I think Sam should have Jason on his show.
And yes, I had to Google Royalty titles.
lol
It’s so hard to watch clips with Michael because you want to laugh and cry at the same time. He was never better than when he was riffing like this.
Seeing Michael at his best can still bring me to tears.... happy tears and deeply sad ones.
HOLD ON, SAM!!!!!!!!!! I just want to have my own navy. How is that too much to ask?
Awesome show yesterday, thanks for sharing my comment about libertarian meltdowns lol
Libertarians are hilarious. They're so, SO confident in their absolute ignorance.
It's the historical illiteracy for me.
Michael cracking up at his own jokes is just so bittersweet
I wish I could get Sam Seder to debate my dad lol
And I say this because my dad is a liberatarian and I'd love to see him get his ass handed to him lol
@@jessicahart6025 please try to get him to call in!
@@ellenstonehill678 that's the problem. He blocked me because I kept debating his lib views 🤣🤣🤣
"They are all solar, have wells" How did they get those wells dug? Do they ever leave the property? How did the solar panels arrive to be installed? The government was involved somewhere.
All those guys wanna talk about their piece of land that they will labor on...these people dont know how to live off the land. They also dont really want to live in a world like that.
Holy shit this video was 🔥
Sam is the epitome of a fellow traveler. His ideas about theory and principles prevent him from being a Marxist but he sure seems to get along with Marxists.
yeah a lot do his thinking lines up, but he often says he doesn’t like labels, because they tend to obscure or give people preconceived notions.
I agree with not using labels. They are intended to short cut the discussion but when everyone uses the label differently, they're useless. You can get many people to agree with workplace democracy and more input in your job but as soon as you call it unions or socialism they will shut down.
Everyone that sam puts on his show is to the left of him. He puts them there for a reason. As a regular watcher, I would say that he simply lacks faith in the reality of Socialist America and therefore supports Social Democracy not that he wouldn't support it if he believed it feasible.
@@Pinko-Diamond I think there are a lot of us like that. I have done stuff with DSA, but (other than the fact that their dues are not low) the main reason why I haven't declared myself a socialist is just because I don't see how the end road will work. The people I get along with the best seem to be the ones who think "Well, this is a step on the way, so if you want to help us get this far, that's fine with us" as opposed to the people who think that an end goal anything short of a Marxist utopia is selling out and just wanting people to be happy and get lazy. While talking to the pragmatist, we both agreed that people being happy isn't a bad thing, and if that's only as far as some people want to go, that isn't the end of the world.
walter block was the best, in my opinion. not only because of michaels hilarious impersonation (sam, i got your wallet) im the aftershow, also because of the ultimately entertaining level of almost psychedelic nonsense
I’m going with the Johan Miller/Right Wing Mandela caller that called in to support Darryl. Epic!
its like they are one hair away from a mental breakdown in some cases. Walter Block with the HEYHEHY SHUT UP! And the jetpack libertarian that just exploded all of a sudden during the conversation and left. He was running as a libertarian presidential candidate.
Rip 🙏
This was awesome but too short. More please.
Well, there are over 150 of these videos. The greatest hits would have us here for a couple days unless you left something out ;-)
So true about the point about limited choices. I can't stand McDonald's, but if I'm going down the road and know there isn't anything for 100 miles, I'm pulling in to the golden arches.
Mike's laugh
"Walter Block was like the Dalai Lama." Goddamn I miss Michael.
Sam’s moral compass stays finely tuned, which is saying a lot here on youtube
Brooksy 😢
41:00 Sam would have the biggest army in a libertarian hell world. We'd be called Humanity Uniting and Gatherings Operations, or HUGO for short.
Wish this was longer. Hope you guys do this again.
That "theft" bit Libertarians use to argue against governmental taxation is so played-out trite so so OLD...simply because they don't develop their argument beyond that usage of the word "theft" and merely use that word to supposedly settle and bring it the dispute to a close, and supposedly make them the "winner" and the opposition "owned".
I mean .....WHA????
Thank you for this. ❤
How do libertarians not realize that if you eliminated a government with a monopoly on the legitimate use of force, relying on business interests to solve everything, that the chief interest of any large business would then be to establish a monopoly on the legitimate use of force? Wal-Mart, in the absence of a force wielding government to protect their interest, wouldn't adopt better business practices. It would be more prescient to establish itself as a force wielding government, or support some enterprising private military start-up trying to do the same.
Leaving aside that the dissolution of any individual state power would simply invite the remaining powers to fill the vacuum before any experiment in anarcho-capitalism could even get started.
Sam makes a great point about how libertarians reason in a self-enclosed universe. In essence, they reason deductively and have no tolerance for anything that connects with facts or the consequences of their actions. They fetishize "freedom," but they see freedom in the abstract, without realizing that (as historian R.H. Tawney put it): "Freedom for the shark is death for the minnows." Libertarianism is ultimately an ideological construct not all that dissimilar from the medieval notion of the "Great Chain of Being," in which those at the top of the hierarchy "substantiated" their position deductively, claiming (without evidence) that their status was ordained by God. When you carry the libertarian idea of absolute freedom into the real world, you end up with just another version of "Might Makes Right." In other words, according to the libertarian construct, the guy with the biggest gun wins.
libertarians don't support absolute freedom
they support absolute liberty
liberty and freedom are not the same
the enlightenment definition of liberty was well defined during the
French revolution
it means the right to participate in any activity as long as it doesn't harm another person
the Monarchies claim that they get their authority from God
libertarians claim that leaders in a democracy get their authority from the people
the citizens of the country
"I hate the unjust use of force but I want to keep all my benefits seized by unjust force!"
Both glad and sad to see a Micheal video.
17:57 Sam makes an excellent point. He doesn't want to get caught up in the theoretical, because that's not the world we live in. And that's the problem for libertarians. All they have is the theoretical, and they do not want to leave the theoretical world and enter the real world. And then that's why (and when) you get answers like "assassination".
The Darryl Perry debate ("dammit Sam, nobody has all the answers on how freedom works!...) was a classic.
"THAT´S WHY FREEDOM´S SO IMPORTANT!!1"
38:06
Everyone's taking their dumb juice today.
@@VanguardSupreme He has an absolute right to mock them on RUclips!
Now I know who called Sam a "horrible, despicable person". Thank you for saying that!
@@rb5519 Hey, hey, hey, hey! Shut up!
The point about drug gangs is actually true. Criminal organizations very rarely go to war with each other, because it's not worth it financially. When they do go to war, it's usually personal, it's not to make money.
It makes me laugh the right wingers going on about immorality
Native American land management... I love you for that, Sam. Thank you.
The third one, Block, is always my favorite. The “prof” is a nut, and he shows it. All that education to show what a loon. I remember that he felt he didn’t get enough dirt to bury himself.
I had completely forgotten about that assassination argument libertarian, even though it wasn't that long ago...that was the most hilarious caller I think they've ever had.
Sam looks like a young Chomsky sometimes.
fun for everybody! great show
If you can't own land, by your own admission, where does the right to secession come from? Like... Do they consider their bodies to be real estate?
It's amazing how these people think you should die if you're sick and have no money but it is despicable and inhuman to say you should pay your taxes...
At the most, I could support the government basically taking its budget out of the money supply as soon as it it's created, rather than trying to rip it from people who need the money.
its astonishing that libertarians still exist when sam has thoroughly ruined all their best people in debates already
10:15 Do Al and Sheila use money? Who printed their money?
I love at 34:46 the guy begins to lose his shit because he can feel, in his very soul, what flimsy bullshit his ideology is. Pure cognitive dissonance on display.
Not enough Hugo and Mort lately
Yeah, having sadly somehow been one of these freaks, Mark Fisher's phrase "business ontology" I think describes the mindset well.
I think the main barrier to even considering the most basic obvious questions that Sam gently nudges them towards is the de facto narrow neoliberal individual-based political concern/understanding out of which comes that deontological preference toward anchoring to a set of arbitrary principles. If I recall, I think it was Ron Paul's '08 presidential run in particular that merely drew an ideological distinction from the mainstream corporate parties (particularly in regards to war, which led me to believe there was at least some honesty, essentially the "outsider" appeal) coupled with the vague awareness from Occupy and dumb/insane financial crash that some economic thought had to be reevaluated. The unspecific contention with the Fed along with one of those arbitrary principles of a gold-standard to ground the money supply offered a convenient scapegoat for the transparent and consistent market failure that seemed to allow me to compartmentalize any further consideration of markets/capitalism for a while.
I think the key circumstantial turning point to transcend the dumbass siren song of "libertarianism" is any actual lived experience that transparently contradicts capitalism's supposed virtues, especially those that obviously transgress maintaining one's individual socioeconomic comfort, leading to an openness/humility to actually critiquing capitalism, and by extension one's current position in the socioeconomic hierarchy, as Sam speculated.
You do understand that socialists are not opposed to capital per se. Rather they want to commandeer capital, to seize capital, to displace the entrepreneur, the figure in the free market free society who allocates capital, and replace him with the central planning committee. Where in a free market free society a million entrepreneurs constantly search out profit opportunity which arise due to market error, due to the fact that the same good has different prices, the central planner would eliminate the price information system altogether and leave it to his commissars to determine where and how to deploy capital.
This was so great. Thanks ! ❤️
Hey, it's Hugo from Bob's Burgers!
libertarianism basically always boils down to "I get to do what I want, you don't get to do what you want". It's the slaveowner's ideology.
Damn makes me miss Mikey 😢
gotta love sam
Fuckin sure miss you MB
Jason Myles’ laugh makes me smile.
Michael was the best man.
I love the laughs in this video! Jason's laugh cracks me up.
I'll have to call in as a libertarian one of these days. First I have to figure out what that means.
just inhale petroleum fumes for a month then pick up the phone
@@poposterous236 LOL! Sounds good.
Johnson got booed at a libratarian convention for saying he would've signed the Civil rights act lol
parts of the civil rights act are unconstitutional
specifically where it forces store owners to serve blacks
You wanted us to be afraid of the control government has over markets but I'm concerned with the opposite.
So fun. This game of fools and their ideas. No one can beat Sam. Hee
That old lie that capitalism saved the poor.
It would cost an extra 15c per burger for McDonalds to pay their workers a livable wage ????
Sorry to everybody on minimum but an additional 15c per burger is too much. Maybe if my hourly rate was a little higher maybe I could afford that.
Of course your wage will be higher because no one could pay less than 15hr to you. That's the whole point of raising it.
but we would be forcing a private company to pay their workers a certain wage
the worker owned business idea that Ben scoffed at came from his side of the political fence
Every time I hear about Ron Paul talking about churches taking up collections, I remember that scene in John Q where the community comes together to raise money for Mike's surgery, and it wasn't even close.
Whichever agency wins becomes your government. He said, "we're submitting to an authority to avoid all-out war over property rights". Not paying taxes is then like declaring war against our chosen agency. That's what "competition" means. Eff around and find out!
In my mind, this country has been making a slow creep away from libertarianism over the decades and things, in many instances, have been slowly getting better the further away we get. Seems to me that, as Sam mentions, the pre-civil war south was pretty libertarian and the meat markets of Chicago, as depicted in the1906 novel 'The Jungle' was pretty libertarian and I doubt, for but a few, none of us want to go back to those days. Lots a libertarianing done back then and it sucked for the american worker.
some of us haven't read the book so to make your point clear you would have to explain what takes place in the book that you wouldn't want to go back to?
@@robinsss "novel portrays the harsh conditions and exploited lives of workers in the United States in Chicago and similar industrialized cities" It details situations where working conditions were so bad that it wasn't uncommon for workers to fall into machinery and get included in the food being produced and this is the era where the cliche of sawdust in bread came from. It is an example of the capitalist operating completely unregulated and what that leads to, both for the worker and the consumer. The publishing of this book led to the establishment of the FDA.
@@sevilnatas real libertarians as opposed to ancaps, don't support completely removing all regulation of industries
they would keep some safety standards
@@robinsss Seems to me Libertarians are like Scotsman, not one of 'em is the true kind.
@@sevilnatas well that's because the ancaps created confusion when they stole the term libertarian
Rothbard admitted it so i don't know where the mystery is
the original libertarians supported having a government
I really want Sam to debate Eric July
I'm a prison abolitionist but fuck me if that means mic drop wasn't pathetic and ineffective I don't know what was.
We've already won the argument, the question is how to oust a tyrannical minority political class?
This is my second time watching your show. Truly enjoyed it 😉
Sam “Sam” Seder
Classic. 55 seconds before Michaels contempt.
Sam should debate anarcho-Libertarian Michael Malice
Good to see Sam Seder. Sam Seder is not an Idiot, to use Zizek s phrase.
WHERE ARE DE MARXSHISHTS??
Sam forgot to include that through theft and stealing, stealing also means "to take without permission, and with no intent of giving something in return". taxation literally is not theft because they collect tax money and have every intent of providing something in return, a lot of somethings in return actually
So I can take your car from your driveway, and it's not theft if I give you something? Like my TV, or a canoe, or an old broken down truck? LOL.
@@destinal_in_reality Its a bad analogy. better would be - i come and periodically, when you know I'm coming, and as long as you can spare it (which you need to show the receipts to prove) I remove the stuff you've got in the glove compartment or truck or whatever and in return I keep the car running if it breaks down, help you out if you have an accident with another motorist and if you are really down on your luck top up the gas tank. Plus if at any time you have dispute about who owns the car I back you up on that its yours. Oh and you get be part of the decision making process which decides how much i get to remove or give how much help i give.
@@destinal_in_reality I love how you think your analogy is equivalent. but even still, yes what you described would still not be stealing. what you described would be called making a trade, the only thing out of the ordinary would be that I find out after the fact. it may not be a fair trade, but it would still be a trade of some kind and not stealing
@@b1bbscraz3y nonconsensual "trading" is stealing and leaving something behind. Consent is the key to know whether something is moral or not
@@destinal_in_reality regardless. it would resemble the action of a "tradeoff" more than the action of stealing
Nice seeing the greatest hits. I was always curious where the "I think you are a horrible person" line comes from in the one song.
This was hilarious. But please get rid of the echo, it’s extremely distracting to both viewers and guests.
This was awesome!
Gord bless Al & Sheila