Are the PE & SE Civil Engineering Board Exams Worth It?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
- Are the NCEES PE (professional engineering) & SE Civil & Structural Engineering Board Exams Worth It? My views after failing multiple times.
0:00 Intro
0:51 Is the PE Exam Worth It?
2:09 PE Exam Pass Rate Statistics
3:08 SE (Structural Engineering) Exam, What Is It?
4:40 SE Exam Pass Rates
5:35 Is the SE Exam Worth It?
6:13 My Thoughts about the SE Exam
7:42 My Experience Taking the SE Exam Multiple Times
9:15 My Mindset Throughout the PE & SE Exam
9:40 The Hardest Part about the PE & SE Exam
👇 SUBSCRIBE TO MAT'S RUclips CHANNEL 👇
ruclips.net/user/MatPicardal...
►Join me as I co-host The Structural Engineering Channel Podcast (TSEC):bit.ly/2Ja3rAU
►iTunes link for TSEC Podcast: apple.co/2JaawkT
►Music I use: www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
Mat Picardal is a structural project manager at DCI Engineers. This video and this channel does not necessarily reflect the opinion nor beliefs of DCI Engineers. All thoughts expressed are purely his own observations and experiences.
For business inquiries email: matpicardal@gmail.com
Follow me on LinkedIn: / matpicardal
Follow me on Instagram: / matpicardal
Disclaimer: Product links are 'affiliate links' so if you click and buy something I get a small commission. This affects you in no way and helps support the channel.
Disclaimer: Mathew Picardal, P.E. does not technically hold the title "structural engineer" in California. Any claim of it in the videos or descriptions is unintentional and is superseded by the title "structural project manager".
#structuralengineering #civilengineering #civilengineer
How did your studying go for your PE or SE exam? What challenges did you face?
i fail rip
what is engineers make building?
What classes did you take or books did you get to study for them?
Hey I just took the SE too! The courses helped with gravity design, but seismic relied heavily on my work experience. How about those special moment frame and special concentrically braced frame problems? Super challenging!
@@scottwible1532 I was completely opposite, my work experience has nothing to do with design of SMF’s and SCBF’s and I heavily relied on my AEI class and additional studying with SEAOC seismic design books. I would not have a chance without AEI class! The AEI professors did such a good job to walk me through all the basics of seismic design and detailed requirements for each material.
Hello Mat, couldn't expect it is so damn hard to become a Structural Engineer. They need to take the EIT, PE, and then the SE. After taking PE, I don't even want to take any exam anymore for the rest of my life.
Wonderful video Matt. I am rooting for you!
The PE is absolutely worth for any engineer, including ones who aren't in a design roles. Simply having that credential boosts your cred in the engineering/construction industry, even if you're not the one signing off on designs. In fact, as a government/military engineer, I've never used my stamp. The SE...it's definitely worth it if your work in a seismic zone like California or Hawaii. But, I know many supervisory structural engineers who don't have it. None of the structural engineers in my office have it. Also, the SE exam costs $1k and that's not including the references.
Oh man, the cost of the resources and even retaking the test fees lol smh
I took vertical in the spring and lateral in the fall of this year. The total direct cost of both exams, which includes NCEES fees, classes, references, travel and hotel expenses to the exam site, were about $5k.
@@denfl6605 I really hope you passed.
@@kolkena thanks! It was really tough but I feel like I did good enough. I usually overstudy a lot, but in the lateral it felt just right. Regardless of how I feel, there’s always a chance for one U-grade which will fail the entire exam. We’ll see… fingers are kept crossed :) for the next 5-6 weeks.
@@kolkena I passed 😀
I just had my second SE attempt for the Vertical portion (though I'm in the bridge design field). I definitely agree the studying aspect so many years into your career/life can be tough to balance (especially with retakes). It was nice knocking out the PE exam right out of college. The SE is definitely that specialized license mainly worth it if you're staying in the field at least 10 years (and depending if your job would ever use it). It is interesting to consider the abysmal pass rate being considered "gate keeping" since the SE license is becoming more and more required for different states/structures.
Great video, Mat. Wish you the best.
Great to have you back Mat
Great video! Keep up the content.
Hey Mat, I found your channel and I'm absolutely loving it!
Welcome back Matt. In Italy we have an "abiltazation exam" for doing a freelance and doing "engineering". If you not doing this, you only can work for another engineer or for an engineering Company but you must have to be "supervizored"
This video motivated me for my upcoming Civil Engineering Board exam on Nov 14-15 here in the Philippines. Wish me luck guys! Thanks Mat!
Hi Mat! I really appreciate your willingness to prepare such informative videos.
Please make a video on how preparing for the PE computer based will be different from preparing for the PE paper based.
Good luck brother
Even though you failed again you have a positive outlook. That in itself is very motivational. Thank you for the content.
He failed SE Lateral in April and retook it in this October and now he is hoping for a positive outcome. That’s where positive outlook comes from :)
I have failed as much as you! Tried lateral 4 times, but have gotten 1 unacceptable each time on an essay question and that makes you fail the entire exam. I don't do seismic design in my state, and my state doesn't require the exam. BUT, I am significantly better at my job because of the studying for these tests and would highly recommend everyone try and take them.
Yup, the 1 unacceptable hurts. Thanks, now I feel better :)
Oh gosh I really hope I don’t get 1 unacceptable.
Also, forgot to ask how did you study for the "essay" afternoon portions? Since its open-ended, I was going to just abide by my procedure notes for all the materials, which I wrote step-by-step for all components/systems in my studies. Do you think this is a good option?
Thanks for these tips. Will be taking vertical first and then lateral second soon. What does 300+ hours mean in terms of weekly/daily hours of studying? Do you think I should take at least 6 months of studying for each portion (vertical/lateral)? I was thinking of only studying 4 months for vertical and 6 months for lateral and with a study plan of 3+ hr/day. I am purchasing the AEI and NCSEA reviewers just so that I cover my grounds...heard these are really good. What's your experience with AEI reviewer?
Thanks for the video. Can you please make video about peer review system and how it works in the US
i think making a video about the difficult part of the exam then uploading it here in your channel might help..it may be a topic of discussion here.
Studied probably 100 hours for vertical and 200 hours for lateral. In CA the SE is mostly a pointless prestige license unless you want to work on schools and hospitals. Learned a lot preparing for it, and I don't regret it.
Registered PE here. I am bridge engineer. I spent 350 hours studying for both portions of the SE and am confident I failed based on how the test is graded (I ran out of time and am pretty sure I got an "Unacceptable" on day 1 PM question and lateral was just an absolute beatdown in the AM). As a civil person the PE is 100% worth it...honestly it's not even a matter of worth but just a hurdle you must cross in order to actually have a career in the civil field; it's a necessity. The PE is also very fair and quite easy for a good candidates who puts the time in to study, after all the PE is meant to test the "Minimum Qualifications" to practice engineering.
The SE is a whole different beast. Some of the most brilliant and technically proficient engineers I know have studied hundred of hours multiple times and just can not pass, the breadth of topics on the exam was the hardest part for me. As a bridge guy I am beginning to feel the SE is no longer worth it AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE. There is no practice restriction in my state & seismic design is never a concern here but over 75% of the AM topics are building specific questions which I have never done or never will do professionally...OK a bit less than 75% since analysis is definitely applicable to bridge work. You have to sacrifice so much of your personal time to adequately study for this exam. At this point, as Matt said, I have a family and I'm feeling like I'd rather spend my time with my family than go through another 4-6 month cycle of wake up study/work/study/sleep again. It is very taxing and definitely weighed on me heavily. The SE would be an amazing feather to have in my cap but I'm already regarded as one of the best engineers on my team, I'm not sure having a few more letters after my name are worth it to sacrifice any more time away from my children.
I definitely believe in practice restriction & while the exam is hard I think that's ok. I also firmly agree anyone who takes this exam needs to be sure not to attach their self worth to the exam results. Failing an exam that most of our collogues will never attempt is not a blemish on our engineering prowess. I am sure I failed but the the exam also did not test me on the topics I am passionate about and have built my career off of. I am so much smarter and think of engineering problems in different and better ways just from having studied for the test. Going through this process definitely made me a better engineer.
I feel like I've been unchained, a child who is no longer grounded or a prisoner just let of jail the last 2 weeks. Studying for this test is demanding, having my life back is liberating. You will be very well respected once you pass this exam but it takes so much sacrifice from the examinee in order to do it! Any of us could be one of the best engineers on our teams, do you really need to prove you're one of the best engineers in the nation by passing this exam? I'm not so sure, every person is unique.
Oh man that is rough. I was pissed as a building engineer that I had to answer 10 AASHTO questions in the AM. The fact that you had 30 non AASHTO questions really sucks. I feel for you brother.
Thanks for sharing the story!
I feel like I could repeat it all for myself but I hope I passed lateral this October after passing Vertical in the spring.
I can’t imagine how tough SE exam is on bridge engineers! I do building and I really liked aashto manual that I’ve never used before. It is such a well organized document with all in one format. Building codes are different and a lot less organized, in my opinion, than aashto manual.
Thanks for sharing! One of the hardest parts is the breadth of knowledge you have to know, so I definitely feel for the bridge engineers having to learn all the building codes.
Well results are in. I passed Vertical and failed lateral. I'm feeling like I need to push on and pass the lateral now. Decisions decisions!
@@EnginerdBrian Welcome to the Lateral only club! I just made a short video (RUclips short) on it, check it out, it should be relatable :)
Passed both parts of the SE Bridges exam this October (first attempt for both)!!!
Studied for about 200 hours and the PE civil structural exam felt very easy.
Hi Mat. You always provide helpful information and I really appreciate it.
I am trying to take the PE exam but I don’t have enough experience to get the license right away. How long will the PE exam result be valid to get the license?
I’m not sure of all the details yet as I haven’t researched it. Just been hearing about the changes.
Hey Mat. What's the best way to prepare for te FE examn? Any advice for a foreign civil engineer?
Mat, my friend is working at DCI seattle and she often leaves office past 7pm :(. Is this the same in private sector?
Hey Mat, thanks for these videos man I find them super useful, quick question though (or if anyone else knows the answer). Can someone take the SE even if they took the PE under another specialty other than Structural (lets say Construction for example)?
I’m pretty sure that’s not a problem at all. You do typically need to be working under a licensed SE for them to sponsor you, similar to the PE.
@@MatPicardal I see, perfect, Thanks Mat
Hi Mat
Appreciate the video man, I have a question, do you think taking these exams helps for someone outside the Unites States?
I have completed my post-grad with specialisation in Structural Engineering from India.
I certainly don’t look forward to shift to US but does it help in taking up projects there?
It would help if you wanted to practice in the US, but the prerequistes to even take the test are less familiar to me. Typically, civil engineering students go to an ABET accredited university, get a couple years of work experience under a licensed civil engineer, and then take their P.E. exam. After another 3 years of having your P.E. license and working under an S.E. licensed engineer, then you're able to take the S.E. Not sure what the exceptions are for people outside the U.S.
hello ING pls don't forget to upload the video on Maths structural engineers need
Hey Matt, I’m senior in high school and aspire to be a civil engineer. I’ve really been considering going into the Structural Engineering sector. I’ve been watching your channel for a while now and I love everything that your doing. Also, I wanted to ask this random question. Would having both the PE and SE licenses be a good move. You know like if you decide to not work in the Structural engineering sector anymore or move to a different state. I know it’s probably not required or necessary and I also know a person would dread all that time studying for two exams while balancing a full time job but I don’t know.
Thanks Joel, PE for sure, it can transfer to different industries like construction, government, developer side, etc. and it’s well recognized. SE only if you plan to be in the industry long term and your work and state require it, unless you want to take it for yourself and become a better engineer. It’s mostly just recognized mostly by senior structural engineers, most in the architecture construction engineering don’t really know what an SE license even is or the effort it takes to get it, let alone the pass rates.
@@MatPicardal Thank you Mat. Very much appreciate it.
The CA PE exams are very messed up this year. There are tons of application backlog, which took them 4 months to approve me to take the surveying and seismic principle exams...I finished seismic on 10/21 and am taking surveying on 11/30. COVID has literally delayed my licensure for a year...
Hope you did well on that surveying test... that thing was super brutal. You don't have enough time and there aren't good resources to prepare for it.
Hey Mat! I am currently a PE in Southern California. When did you feel like you were ready to start studying and eventually take the SE? Thanks!
Per California I needed to work 3 years after I got my PE before I could take the exam. Wish I could’ve taken sooner, but it wasn’t allowed. I heard you could take it in other states earlier though.
@@MatPicardal my plan was to take it in Nevada and hopefully pass both, then wait the 3 years after the PE to be licensed in SE. My coworker did that, took the SE in Nevada after 2 years after his PE, passed, and then waited a year to be licensed in California
How are you related to Manuel Manny Picardal in Yakima Washington?
Hey Mat, what if I'm not from USA and I want to apply for FE?
Make a vdo on BIM management please
Master in engineering knowledge here🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Yes
Is really worth it though?
Hi Mat! Are there equivalent exams in Canada for the SE? Thanks!
I don't believe so from talking to some engineers over there. I heard it was mainly working under a licensed engineer for a couple years, and if they vouch for you, you'll get your license? I may have misunderstood though if that isn't correct.
@@MatPicardal I know that after getting my undergrad i will work under a senior engineer as a junior for 2 years (this is in Montreal) and then i can write an ethical exam to officially be a licensed engineer but wasnt sure if there were SE exams like in the US. Will have to ask a professor or look online. Thanks for the reply!
Hi Mat!!! Can a foreigner take PE or SE exam?
Are you a SE now? Did you pass the test you took when you made this video?
In china，it will take 1000 hours at least to prepare the level 1 structure engineer。Matt would you like to share any projects in the exam?
Oh,really?????
What study/reference material did you use or find most helpful in preparation for the SE exam?
I took AEI courses but I got a big list of additional resources as well. Send me an email if you want the list of my resources
@@MatPicardal Email sent, thank you!
How do you think you did?? Do you think you passed both sections now?
I think I did well! We shall see, from my experience all it takes is one unacceptable in the four essay problems portion and you instantly fail the test.
Are you sure that no experience is required to take PE exam ?
İ saw that they still require 4 years of industry experience to take the PE exam.
Not sure since it's been a while and they recently have been changing the requirements. But at least in California, I know fresh graduate engineers taking their PE (8 hour) exam earlier (like in their 1st year). But in California, passing the PE 8 hr doesn't get you your license, you also need to pass the California Surveying and Seismic exam, which I think requires even more experience? I haven't researched it adequately so take it with a grain of salt.
Why SE Stick to Code BookS MainLy........in CA..........&&.........." Only Super OneS Must Be >> Intell OneS ...........Who........ Will Pass. ".................................??
I know a group of not that smart people in this company and they all passed the SE exam first try...They said they took some classes and that was it...I guess a class makes it easy! There was no class when I took it. Still passed them without too many effort. I struggled more with the PE because of all the other subjects.....
When did you take your SE so that there were no classes back then? If it was before 2012, I am pretty sure it was quite different format and from what I've heard all SE-like exams before the current format that came out in 2012 were different and their level of difficulty and the size of referenced codes were not as challenging as for current exam.
I think your case is pretty unique. I don't know why any engineer capable to pass SE would struggle with PE. It only takes one month of fairly light studying of "other subjects" to be able to do well in AM session.
I was done with FE 1 hr before the end of the exam. I was done with PE Civil Str 45 min before the end of the exam with only one problem I was not sure about how to solve. I was done with all SE problems with no time left even to review if filled up bubbles are not messed up. It was extremely tight with time. In contrast to PE, there were almost no problems that didn't require a numeric solution.
With 24% passing rates for the last lateral exam, this exam is definitely not as easy as you make it sound.
@@denfl6605 i took mine in 2011. What material are you talking about that is harder nowadays? If anything they are dumbing it down. There was a problem question that required knowledge of non-linear buckling analysis i remember. I won't go in the details, 95% of SEs won't know how to approach that problem. You must be a very good test taker based on what you said about your experience with the PE and SE. Not necessarily a smarter structural engineer compared to those without a SE. I manage a group of PEs and SEs and I will promote to team lead a PE because he's the most capable out of the group. He doesn't have the most experience btw.He just understand structures better. people have a hard time with lateral because vertical is what's been taught in college for the most part. It doesn't make it more difficult. It seems like nowadays if you are a good test taker, take a class and know where to find things in the codes, you should pass the exam. It's because they dumbed the exam down imo. I didn't mean to say it's easy btw. Nothing is easy! I'm sure I would never be able to pass the bar, or become a medical doctor!
@@RT-ig5cs
"they dumbed the exam down" means to me that the exam is easier now than 10 years ago. That's what I get from this statement. NCEES doesn't say that all exams have the same level of difficulty. Instead, they adjust the passing scores for different levels of difficulties. So, one year they may ask something unique, in depth, and then adjust the passing score.
Yes, I agree passing these exam doesn't mean someone is a good structural engineer. It also doesn't mean that if one failed it, he is not a good engineer. There are always exceptions for each case, but I am pretty sure that on average the ones that passed are better engineers, or, in other words, better engineers have higher chances of passing.
When I know nothing about a person and I can only judge him by his/her credentials, I can only trust NCEES to justify which one is better unless I have time figure out like you do with your staff.
If you compare the number of pages in typical references codes for your 2011 exam and the current exam, the difference will be quite significant:
- ASCE7-16 has 2.12 times more pages than ASCE7-05;
- ACI318-14 has 1.25 times more pages than ACI318-08. ACI318-19 will have 1.5 times more pages than ACI318-08.
And this list can go on.
What I meant is that with every code update, there is more pages added, which makes exam takers study more materials and search through more pages during the exam.
Why should SE test for something like non-linear buckling analysis if there is a great pool of other topics more common in a daily life of structural engineers? Per NCEES, SE Exam tests only for minimum competency, which means to me it is not supposed to test for some in depth topics.
Yes, I passed SE and I am in those 95% who don't know how to approach this topic during the exam time, which means that 95% of decent structural engineers have never needed it in their career. I don't know how to approach a lot of other things. But it doesn't mean I cannot figure them out. I'd just need some time to research it first. That's what any engineering profession is about, figuring out things that have never been done before.
After all, my opinion is that PE Civil Structural is not adequate enough to allow professionals to design building structures. It doesn't test for lateral design and it really needs another 4 hr exam to test for lateral topics, similar to what CA has.
Current SE exam, I think, is just right and I wish they would not switch to CBT in 2024.
In the end, I hate tests. I grew up in a system without tests. I took the first test in my life after I finished high school. I just always have managed to figure them out. I'd prefer solving depth problems all day long than those multiple choice questions. I wish we would not have these multiple choice tests but, unfortunately, it is the only solution that makes economic sense to the exam providers.
I didn't know they were thinking of making it a cbt exam in 2024. But you raised some good points. I totally agree the SE structural is a more adequate test compared to the PE structural. I'm just saying they are PEs that are more capable than SEs. Passing an exam doesn't make one better than the other. But ir seems you agree with me on that. Most of the structural engineers I respect the most are not even SE now that I think about it. But it's mostly because they feel they don't need it. So it's all about perspective. Anyway, I appreciate your insight and professionalism.
Unless you have your own business. I don’t think so. With the PE in general you still be able to design 85% of building ( non significant) with the SE huge liability comes. Thanks.
No they are not worth the time and money. The money rewards is nothing
Matt. You seem to focus on and refer only to USA when explaining a lot of important stuff. Please try, even to the minimal degree, to consider also the perspective from the other side of the world. if you can.
Thank you so much.
He lives in the USA, why don’t you make videos about where you live?
@@hadrianaugustus5712 Does living in the US limit you from accessing global information and trends?....
why don't i make videos about where i live?...i don't get this last part of your reply.
It’s very difficult to cover other countries as they are all very different, with different cultures, governments, funding, and ownership structures, and I would have very little credibility as I don’t have experience in those countries. I highly encourage you to use my videos to come up with questions and ask the civil structural engineers that are working in your country. There’s nothing stopping you from reaching out to professionals in your country (you have better access and communication to them than I do) and asking them what the industry is like, that’s the best way to really find out. Then, maybe make content out of it and share it with others on the internet:) we could always use more content creators! Thanks a lot!
@@MatPicardal 👌Just do usa. it's fine I'll still follow. Thanks.
Hey Mat, what’s up? I wanted to ask you another question regarding Structural Engineering and Civil in general. For a while I’ve been thinking and researching ways that an engineering student can boost their skills (whether that be theoretical or practical) and I found that one method could be to have a minor that’s related to your major. I know that if a minor interferes with internships, classes, gpa, etc then it’s most likely not worth it. However, I’ve been thinking that the only minor that could help me out while probably not interfering too much with my major is Math. At my school, in order for engineers to qualify for the Math minor you just need 9 extra credit hours - 3 more classes. This is a very hypothetical plan, obviously, but I just like playing around with these ideas. I found that the three main math classes that I believe could aid a civil engineer include:
1)Introduction to Linear Algebra
2)Statistics for Engineering and Science
3)Linear Algebra (next course from Intro to Linear Algebra)
The reason why I thought these courses could be of use to me is that my school doesn’t require Civil Engineers to take these courses, but other engineers have to. I’ve also seen, from various other schools that they require all civil engineers to take courses like these. I don’t know. What do you think, from a structural engineering perspective? Do you use this kind of math at your job? Should I not worry about technical skills since my major already covers that thoroughly? 😅 Sorry for how long this comment is?