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HSP & Trauma vs. Autism/ADHD: 5 Signs It's CPTSD, Not ASD/ADHD
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- Опубликовано: 17 авг 2024
- "I was first diagnosed with an Anxiety Disorder, at age 35 I was diagnosed with Autism and then my therapist told me I have ADHD as well."
I read a ton of these comments here on RUclips.
BUT there is one big problem: I suppose that many of them are far from the truth.
In fact, the reason for many symptoms people experience might be actually childhood wounds and trauma.
To prove that, today,
- we will define, what complex trauma actually is (and that most people have a completely wrong understanding of it),
- We will discuss, if many people really use autistic masking, or maybe do something else? ;)
- Find out, if it’s actually ADHD caused inattentiveness or another learned pattern
- And we will debunk many more typical autism and ADHD related symptoms
► Links and Resources:
Adult Survivors of Childhood Trauma: www1.racgp.org...
Trauma or ASD: www.communitys...
ASD Treatment: elemy.wpengine...
ASD and CPTSD: neurodivergent...
ADHD Treatment: www.nhs.uk/con...
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► Music used in this episode:
massobeats - bloom: • massobeats - bloom (lofi aesthetic mu...
► Episode Timestamps:
0:00 Overview
1:50 Do we live in a Sick Society?
4:18 What is High Sensitivity (SPS)?
6:49 What is Trauma (CPTSD)?
11:31 5 Signs, It's CPTSD, Not ASD/ADHD
12:28 Sign 1: Meltdown & Hyperfocus vs. Emotional Dysregulation
17:42 Sign 2: Social Confusion & Difficulties vs. Social Anxiety
20:20 Sign 3: Masking & Camouflaging vs. Avoidance & Shame/Guilt
27:58 Sign 4: Reactive Nervous System vs. Hypervigilance
31:13 Sign 5: Inattentiveness & Withdrawal vs. Dissociation
34:37 Self-Diagnosing, False-Diagnosing
35:27 Overlap: CPTSD vs. ASD vs. ADHD
36:42 Solutions and Treatment
41:19 Final Thoughts
► Reach Out To Me :)
E-Mail: info@understandable.net
► Book List *Ad-Links
- The Highly Sensitive Person - Elaine N. Aron: amzn.to/3OQEmhT
► About: Insight through understanding yourself: Our mission is to make topics regarding your personality understandable and relatable. We aim to help you to gain insight into your true personality to feel more inner peace and love.
► Disclaimer: None of the contents are therapeutic or medical recommendations. The contents are not to be understood as therapeutic-medical instructions and are neither intended as professional health advice nor as education. See the content as a starting point for self-advocating.
To make everyone's life easier, I think it's safe to assume that most neurodivergents do have a c-ptsd as a result of their neurodivergency (especially those who were diagnosed later in life):
1) there've been studies that showed how adhd in kids provroked worse parenting styles in their caregivers (raising a neurodivergent kid is hard, makes the parent more stressed and overwhelmed, which likely results in lashing out, neglect of cruelty).
2) neurodivergents have a higher risk of being bullied by peers + misunderstood by adults
3) a lot of shame can come from seeing that you are different, not being able to fit in and your symptoms being seen as character flaws by others
I don't know who you need to be to NOT get traumatized by all this on top of being highly sensitive to begin with.
Personally, looking back I see that a HUGE chunk of my chilhood traumas come from my mom not knowing about adhd (&I don't blame her) but thinking my symptoms were part of my personality, so she tried her best to discipline me out of them. ex. there was a lot of yelling, so now I have a visceral reaction any time I hear a heightened tone.
And btw, I strongly believe that high sensitivity belongs somewere on the neurodivergent spectrum.
Thanks a lot for summarizing the discussion. That is brilliant! I agree with all your points.
Well put!
Yeah. I must admit that I thought the video was a bit gaslighty for the people that has either 2 or the three conditions... Nicely put.
@@AngieDeAguirre I thought so too
All this tracks with me too
Sensory processing disorder is part of it too
This is my comment before watching: I think we all just want an answer, and when adhd/autism fits, we kinda wanna be done. We've been through enough.
I like your comment, because it's really on point. We like to be understood after all these years of feeling misunderstood.
I was quite sceptical when you started saying how many commenters would likely be wrong about them being autistic and having adhd and that it's more likely caused by trauma.
Meanwhile from what I have seen, people, especially autistic ones, tend to do very extensive and in depth research about the possibilities and won't rest until they find answers and address all possible angles they can think of.
I belong to one of those...my whole life I have been thinking that all my difficulties were mostly coming from trauma. I had worked through everything I could think of, tried several times to get help and was pretty much dismissed until some years ago when I completely burned out...then I got "help" but medication and therapy wasn't working for my major problems (though it did help with believing myself more and self confidence) I even had asked my therapist if i could be autistic and she simply dismissed it without explanation.
Then after that therapy and realizing I was still not in a state to be able to work, I was sent to a psychatric nurse who then suggested adhd and/or autism (she had adhd herself), we did the tests and I dived into both subjects, which I had previously dismissed myself or not considered because of how badly they are explained in our society to the general population....
since then I learned how to make the distinction between my trauma, adhd and autistic traits/symptoms, there are still some I'm not sure about, but my life and my struggles make more sense now and why my problems have been present since very early childhood and also why no one picked up on the defining traits for autism and adhd...
trauma made me internalize and bottle up alot of things, made me mask to protect myself, made me be in denial about my own needs because it was less painful somehow than addressing all those needs that didn't seem "normal".
In the end, when the traumatic symptoms had been addressed, talked about...my flashbacks lessened...my nightmares less intense...my ability to recognize triggers increased and me being able to react consciously most of the time, rather than reacting like a freshly wounded animal each time, the problems persisted and I knew it had to be more than just trauma....
also...an interesting sidenote: I got a child about 9 years ago and she was also a trigger for figuring out what was trauma and what wasn't, because there were alot of neurodivergent behaviours in her, but she never had those traumatic experiences I grew up with and knowing that those things are highly genetic, I learned through her and with her.
Thank you for taking the time to write that super long comment. And thank you for sharing your thoughts and being skeptical.
I would be curious (if you want to share) which specific traits your child has, that you can clearly categorize as being neurodivergent instead of resulting out of trauma!
The intro might be triggering. I am aware of that.
I think for people like you, the situation is way more clear. You experience trauma stacked on top of autism/ADHD. Same might be true for everyone who received a clear diagnosis already.
BUT there are many other people (including me) who saw stuff about autism / ADHD on the internet and then start to identify with these kinds of conditions, because they see themselves as having several traits.
I do share autistic and ADHD traits as well. It is a spectrum, yes. But just through the work with my therapists I understood that many of the symptoms are more trauma based.
So I believe that for a large group of people there might be false-diagnosing going on, based on what they see on the internet. For those people, this video might be helpful.
For people like you, who digged into the topic that far already, you are already on a great path about understanding yourself. That is amazing.
@@understandablepodcast the traits I recognized in my daughter were things like stimming, which had been attributed to nervousness and anxiety. Sensory sensitivities which had been thought of to possible come from hypervigilance towards surroundings from and then shutdowns/meltdowns from overstimulation which I thought I had panic attacks or dissassociation episodes.
And then also some difficulties with recognizing social cues (some kids have been trying to take advantage of that) and this thing about her appearing shy to most people but really she is an extroverted person (thrives on being with others but is unsure/confused how to interact with them especially initiating it).
In relation to last 2 points I thought i would have been having struggle with social situations because my families internal interactions weren't healthy, but it really doesn't seem to work that way, because most neurotypical people can still pick up on social rules and cues without any issues even if they had traumatic backgrounds....
And you are right about one thing: autism/adhd has alot of overlap with trauma and usually you can't really differentiate them well when looking at just outside behaviours.
It's necessary to go into the "why" and "how" cause internally they are very different once you know how to spot the differences.
“It is no sign of health to be adapted to a Sick society”
Great video. I truly recommend Gabor Matés' book Scattered Minds. An eye opener which explains also how childhood trauma can cause adhd and it's generational in sense, that you will find a history of abuse, neglect, traumatic experiences throughout few generations in the same family.
Thank you for sharing that recommendation! :)
I think what this doesnt take into acount is as an autistic person and having your needs not met as a child and the trauma of living in a neurotypical world, can lead to CPTSD.
This!
The psychologist who diagnosed me (with ASD) explained that the schism in my intellect is very common amongst autistic people, which probably isn't a factor if you've got only CPTSD.
Abnormal motor function is another thing common in autism.
Btw, the background music is unpleasant
Thanks for adding that.
Also, thanks for letting me know about the music! I will remove it in the future. :)
the schism. what a good way to put it.
That awkward moment when you actually have all 3 conditions 🥲
Mood bro
Plus DID which stems from the cptsd lol
It's a wild ride out here
Yeah @@actuallyspoon521, I also have issues with dissociation...
Relatable 😢
there is no neurodivergent pandemic, actually before there were many diagnosis as borderline or anxiety disorder or else BUT people didn't talk about openly and it was hidden cos it used to be a taboo subject..... also before we knew very little about neurodiversity so people, especially women could not be diagnosed with ASD or ADHD for example.
And as a consequence many older people are being diagnosed only now and it looks like many more people are being diagnosed as ASD of ADHD since women plus several generations are getting their diagnosis now and before people were labelled with a diagnosis that didn't help them probably and were suffering in silence from their neurodivergence so since it wasn't visible in the media people believe it didn't exist.... but this is a very superficial way of seeing things
And in the past many philosophers and psychanalysts had analysed that society is really sick, this is not new at all!!!!!!!!!! The difference is that psychology was not developped so it was not analysed from a psychological and neurodivergent perspective.
The difference is not the purcentage of people being one way or another it is the approach and perspective from which it is analysed, that is all....
Thank you for sharing that! This is underlined by the fact that there are so many older people here on RUclips reporting their late diagnosis.
I guess then it is just the shift of the label from one to another?
This. ASD was originally only though of as something men could have and was only tested on young boys, it’s largely missed in girls and older people who aren’t children. With so many people undiagnosed, it’s only normal that we eventually do a sort of catch up. especially now with information being more widely accessible.
True. Back in the days when I first got into therapy I was (mis)diagnosed at different times with major depressive disorder, cyclothymia and 'borderline personality organisation'. And only two years ago when I learned about my adhd the puzzle finally came together :)
@@understandablepodcast it’s a lot more than a shift of a label. A proper diagnosis was life changing for my son
@@ThePathOfLeastResistanc I can believe that. I think for your son this might really be life changing. For some people it's true, for others it's not. :)
I got all those diagnosises.
That is for sure possible! AuDHD-PTSD. How did you find out? :)
I was observing myself for a long time and suspected it and then went for a long investigation about it. I tried to understand myself better. I knew I am complicated and fight a different kind of problems than my peers.
I suffer from dissociation as in I suffer from derealization. Is it trauma or is it possible for someone with adhd too? I dont know if I am inattentive but I am distracted and my mind keeps talking never stops talking although I have no hyperactivity.
Thank you for sharing! Maybe the video about ADHD in particular will help you as well. :) ruclips.net/video/HOCbK52R9eg/видео.htmlsi=iGF89EL5buxUU9xe
Definitely have both Autism and ADHD. (Was diagnosed) but I have had trauma as well soooo does that mean I get the trifecta?
You won the trifecta, yes. Thanks for sharing. I think that might be common to have all three then, because they interfere with each other as well. How do you deal with them?
@@understandablepodcast To be honest, I won't lie. I don't deal with them well. I'll be 34 this year and haven't had a stable home my entire life. People don't get me and I move a lot. I can't hold down jobs and have to rely on others because I can't muster enough energy to deal with people.
But... I have started joining Autism awareness groups that have ADHD and CPTSD stuff mixed in for topics. I made some friends online who are like myself and we've talked about what we go through. It's not perfect but it's a start. Just knowing I'm not alone or a monster has been a big step.
I also do a lot of research so I'm doing what I can to do self healing and try to do what's best for myself and forgive myself for experiencing what I do. It's okay that I'm different and it's okay to need help. These are things I've started to tell myself. Baby steps :)
What if you are autistic and also suffered childhood Trauma???
Many people obviously faced both conditions. Probably the autism caused CPTSD symptoms, because you often felt alienated. Caretakers and parents struggle a lot with dealing neurodivergent children. This causes trauma wounds.
@@understandablepodcast thanksgor replying
I feel like I’m in the dead center of that Venn diagram, with a narcissist father who is also my trustee
Thanks for sharing. I wish you all the best for your future!
New sub here, but: Please also look into Russel Barkley‘s rebuttal of Maté‘s views, because they are not clear cut and it’s AN OPINION based on certain studies on both sides. I would prefer to get a look into all of the shades of grey - instead of choosing sides and presenting views as facts.
Also, why not see c-ptsd as a consequence of your neurodivergent being as a child and adolescent and what you are going through?
Is it also possible to see them as valid and relevant side by side instead of matter-of-fact dismissal?
what I am saying is: would love more caution and sensitive approaches and many books and podcasts have been talking about this more nuanced.
The suggestion that cPTSD is just secondary to having grown up with ADHD is a DSM -based psychiatry approach -designed to preserve the medical/biological model of mental health. You are traumatised because you have faulty dopamine receptors. Anyone else would not have the response that you do. Victim blaming.
Explain to me how my childhood trauma of emotional deprivation, denigration, and regular rape by older male cousin was caused by my having faulty dopamine receptors - rather than simply bad behavior by the adults who should have cared for me????
Sorry but “highly sensitive person” isn’t a DSM diagnosis. Please don’t gatekeep autism and adhd.
Thank you for your comment. I did not assume it was a DSM diagnosis. Have you watched the previous discussions about ASD/HSP? It's coming from there.
@@understandablepodcast no, this is the first video I’ve seen from u, and I got the message that you think peiple are over identifying as autistic. You ever think maybe highly sensitive people ARE autistic and/or adhd? And that highly sensitive person isn’t a separate thing at all?
@@ThePathOfLeastResistanc Yes, I do think that is most probably the case. We discussed that BROADLY in the previous episodes. :)
Feel free to watch them as well.
@@ThePathOfLeastResistancI remember when my therapist suggested that I could be an HSP... I went online and immediately stumbled across autistic people who said that HSP was just a code word for being on the spectrum when therapists don't want to go as far as saying so. I found that to be true.
@@play-fool well it’s also used when you don’t meet diagnostic criteria, and prevents access to support for so many
I am having trouble listening...I'm struggling. Check your microphone as I can hear every sound inside your mouth as if dry mouth. Maybe too close or needs adjusting. Lamp is also fighting for attention and winning! Hope it helps and you might not realise.
Are you sure it's not your speakers? All the other people seem to understand everything perfectly well.
I have all 3 of these. Something really messed up happened to me in the lottery, because of this autistic, obsessive type person I am, so have CPTSD now, thanks to them. Great..
May I ask, what your background and life experiences are? I just came upon your video randomly..I have never seen your channel before. :D
Then welcome to the channel. :) I do videos about neurodivergence and psychology out of my own interest and to make these topics more understandable for others. My therapists "diagnosed" me a sensory processing sensitivity, and I work a lot on cptsd-specific symptoms myself as well.
@@understandablepodcast Ah, yes I can see, and how wonderful of you to want to educate others regarding the neurodivergent community and psychology!
You put the diagnosis in brackets..I am wondering if that means that you were never formally diagnosed?
Nice! Trauma-informed therapy is life-saving! I have also used it as well with a trauma-informed focused therapy program amongst other healing modalities. I am diagnosed C-ptsd and late diagnosed AuDHD. Nice to meet you :D
@@DiamondEyez456 Thank you so much for your kind comment!
I agree that Trauma-informed therapy is live-saving. Plus somatic oriented therapy helped me a lot to work with my body and nervous system as well.
SPS is not a diagnosis, so I put it in brackets. :)
All the best to best to you my friend! :)
I think its really off-putting that you are making fun of these comments and typing it in the intro. A lot of these 35 year olds have been suffering their entire lives and are just now getting diagnosed. Do you know how hard it is to get an autism diagnosis as an adult? You seem mis-informed.
Thanks for your perspective. I agree that the intro might trigger some people. I do know how hard it is to get a diagnosis as an adult from first-hand experience. And I do not address these people with this video.
it feels like a lot of the symptoms you pitted against one another Don't really make sense to do. these things often overlap, it would make sense to have both traits, or one masking the other.
Thanks for your perspective. I do partly agree. Yes they overlap a lot, and one may mask the other. But why do we need different diagnoses and conditions then? If most people have both traits or one is masking the other, we can just make one conditions out of it?
@@understandablepodcast again, I'm not sure why it needs to be one or the other. Just because there is a lot of overlap doesn't mean there isn't benefit for people who want separate labels and for professionals who feel like there is a distinction, there is imo and I'm not denying that. what I'm suggesting is that often the things you pitted against each other can have overlap though, trying to parse out who has what really feels like the job of the individual and their psychologist, and the distinctions you make are not really all that helpful for people who are struggling with a diagnosis.
what is that round shape microwave looking light ???
It's just a floorlight :DD
@cassandra9699 Right, thanks! ;)
You can have ADHD/autisum and C-Ptst/hsp. 2 are develomental disorder you can only diagnose at birth (unlessnyou wernt taken to a soctor for check up once u were born) and the other are mentel illneses we can develope from truma. These are alsp oly diagnosabel by a Psychiatrist, yes bekng a theripest dose not make you a doctor, they can tell you jave it but will also tell you you wont recive any diagnoses on youre medical records untill you have a Psychiatrist signe of, thats how you get youre meds and assigned treatment for sed disorder or illnes. If you are diagnosed with one of them you will need either meds or treatment.
At birth? This is so misinformed.
@Lindzloohoo my .other is an OR NR, if you give birth at the hospital the doctors will no, they do brainnscans and blood tests, mabye if you head truma or were exposed to cancerous matireals coukd they develop but thats just the thing, mentel illnes is a chemical imbalance, mentel disabilities are about you're brain structure. These disorders are alsp only effecting the limbic brain witch can only form in pregnancy the most studied cause of these disabilities being hereditary of if the mother smokes while pregnant, after that the soft part of the brain is the cognitive so thinking so for ppl with disabilities they have no issues thinking. Ppl with mentel illnses it effects the cognitive brain where all the chemicals are produced, having mentel illnes means you're unregulated, literly the chemicals in you're brain are unregulated so you can't think right.
@@carrie040901 mental illness is NOT A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE. Please stop saying this. It’s been debunked for literal decades now.