If you HAVEN'T watched the whole video yet, music theory and reading sheet music is a GOOD THING. But ears are way more important, and I want to encourage people not to get caught up on the theory. That will come in time! Just start playing!
I think people misunderstand how fundamental "Music Theory" is. Yes, reading and writing are simple forms of what you describe as Music Theory. Simple things such as knowing the notes on a piano, being able to sing in western 12-tet tuning, knowing solfege, knowing roman numerals (like you mention later in the video) those are all justifiably parts of music theory just as much as the others are.
I'm still watching the video, but I've been getting better at reading midi rolls and sheet music feels so antiquated now. Like you can color code different midi voices and the opacity of the notes changes with velocity. Doing equivalent things with standard sheet music would look so gross and complex. No one reads from piano rolls for live performance, but I think sheet music should be similarly modernized bc it can get extremely messy and illegible.
My ears are amazing but I don't even know what a 1 4 5 progression is.......but I can tune my guitar to 440 w/o a tuner! */failure* I need someone to open up my head and pour the theory in, so badly. I don't even understand the concept of keys beyond "it's based on the root note".
To learning via immersion and exposure you could probably add, as with learning any other language, courage - ie to try, even if you make mistakes - because you learn from those too.
One of my college professors told us multiple times that "music theory follows the music" and not the other way around, and I think it's really important to think about the fact that all music theory was created to help explain music that already existed in the first place.
When I was studying linguistics they said that the field is "descriptive, not prescriptive," in other words, the rules they come up with aren't meant to be followed as laws but just to describe the way people were already speaking. So I apply that concept to a lot of things like this now, I think it's a great way of describing it. (also nice pfp, cave story based)
This is only half true, I think. When people write, they build on the language of the people that came before them and the innovators are usually really well versed in the previous theory. Bach built on the theory of Fux and approached counterpoint with rules he gave himself, Shoenberg got bored with others’ theory and created a whole new branch of music still widespread in academia today based more on creating rules that constrain the options, my jazz teachers live by the mantra imitate, assimilate, and then innovate. By choosing to write in an existing genre, you adopt constraints and rules that guide you, even when you don’t think about it actively.
@@drewcomposed Well, I guess the point is to limit yourself rather than feel limited by conventions and requirements other people throw at you. It's certainly often a good idea to adopt them, and you'll often do so unconsciously as a result of your listening, but the key is that other people shouldn't be able to tell you that you have to.
I think it works both ways... being able to analyse other people's work helps you improve, and knowing MT informs your own musical decisions when you write and arrange your pieces. But, yeah, music came first, theory came to explain it. We all know what happens if the process is reversed - take Pythagorean tuning. It (probably) looked dynamite on parchment, but in practice it produced idiotic things like the wolf interval and allegedly the Western world was stuck with this "pure" music theory for centuries....
I think the conclusion is basically just that theory shouldn't replace intuition. The language analogy is 100% spot on because when speaking, you construct your speech based on the accumulated experience from emersion, without needing to write a single letter, or needing to carefully consider the exact vocab or expressions you need to use. It's helpful to know for the sake of incorporating it into that accumulated experience and making it part of your natural intuition
Well i can make a video that says "mozart is a really bad composer" and in the end of the video after 20 minute i try to say that i meant badass! No, the seductive titles are a really bad thing especially for a guy that may have influence on musicians who may take the title as real.
@@nezkeys79 You didn't learn any of the rules of grammar, punctuation, vocab, verb conjugation, etc. before you entered school, did you? Not in any meaningful capacity, I don't imagine. But, most people can still speak well enough at the age of 5 or 6 to communicate pretty complex thoughts and feelings. Knowing the exact rules for how you would write your speech isn't necessary for actually speaking, same as how knowing the exact rules of how you would transcribe your music to sheet music doesn't matter when actually performing the music.
Dude, if this was how any teacher in the school system (especially American) viewed how to teach a language, I genuinely feel like students would actually learn the language
@@rohanphilip491 Well the trouble with that is that as you get older it becomes harder and harder to learn a new language, just because of brain architecture. So the immersion approach may no longer work on its own in the way that it does for native speakers; you may have to use it to supplement more manual language rule learning, which is really difficult to then turn into fluent speech. It's the same thing with music; if you're older and you didn't listen to music at ALL when you were a kid (which is extremely rare and unusual) then you may need to rely on theory to painstakingly learn what's supposed to sound good. But for people who have already constructed an intuition of what sounds good, just from immersion when they were much younger, theory will just be a way to understand differently what they were already doing in their brain.
When I started learning piano I relied mostly on RUclips tutorials and by ear, and I feel like it helped out majorly when I actually started learning theory!
@@Lumpiluk at the start, mostly off various RUclips videos and theory books for beginners, then I started getting lessons. Another thing I did to understand some more terminology was watch people like Charles or Adam Neely, and if there wasn't anything I understood I'd look it up and write it down
As an amateur musician, I was just talking to a friend of mine recently that although I had a few years of piano lessons (and then sort of self-taught myself after those ended), I really don't know much at all about music theory, and I felt that this lack was preventing me from excelling in the music that I write. I can read sheet music, but that's it. I still feel like I want to dig into more theory at some point, but you've given me a bit of confidence to keep writing and creating, and not let my lack of knowledge stop me.
If you're writing any music at all then you're probably not lacking the ability to write good music that "excels" based on what you already know. In fact you may get to a certain point where someone says "use a ____" and you say "what is that" and they explain what it is and you realize you were already using it. Maybe this is unrelated, but part of the trouble with writing music, in my experience, is that you may write something perfectly good and then listen to it and say "this is bad, it sounds bad" even though nobody else would say that. You're gonna be more critical of yourself, so if you're brave enough to share that music anyway, people will probably like it. (And if they don't, sucks for them.)
I'm the other way around. A whole lot of theory, now it's a game of catch up trying to get the muscle memory down to use it all. I will say that understanding theory makes learning new instruments way faster. The best part about music theory is that it gives you the ability to learn and adapt. It lets you take something you like, that you want to make, but don't know how, and learn the patterns and mechanics behind it so that you can use it for yourself. I specifically got into music theory solely bc of JRPG music and Citypop and walked out a jazz and bossa nova fan lol
A little theory, acquired bit by bit can be very helpful to an improviser/composer/arranger on any level, even the most informal. My recommendation: understand the diatonic scale and how seven chords are made from it. Memorize COLD the spellings of the seven triads of the C major scale. Also memorize the seven-letters of the series of thirds: CEGBDFA (and be able to start that sequence from any note). This is invaluable because the spelling (in the sense of the letter only) is the same for all triads in all keys. Move from there to the key signatures in the circle of fifths, if you don't already know them. Memorizing that seven-note series of thirds and its application in the seven triads of the diatonic scale is staggeringly, unbelievably useful. You will know how to spell chords as a matter of second nature, not stumbling to work it out. After the triads, then tackle seventh chords. The beauty is you already have the series in memory. To make C a (maj) 7th chord, you add one more third: CEGB, of course by memorizing the triads alone, you've internalized both CEG and EGB. With the series memorized, it becomes easy to stack thirds up to the 13th. There are only 7 thirds to stack: root, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th. That's it. As with adding the accidentals of the different key signatures, the basic spelling of larger/more extended chords (7th to 13th), the simple sequence provides the underlying structure and you simply add whatever alterations (b5, #5, b9, #11, etc.) onto it. The point is you don't struggle to spell-the structure is imprinted on your memory.
@@anthonyodonnell6105 This assumes that associating the pitches with their letter names is the easiest and most intuitive way for you to think about them. I've always struggled with that, I could memorize a bunch of note names and then have no idea what they sounded like, probably because of the same mental processing issues that made simple math calculations incredibly slow and painful. I got by by associating the letter names, what they looked like on a staff, and what they looked like on a piano keyboard, and then painstakingly played out my sheet music on the piano for a while until I figured out what it sounded like, at which point I could memorize that and associate it with my finger movements. I was unable to sight-read at any reasonable speed, or internalize music by sight-reading it, until I switched to a single-note wind instrument on which I could associate notes in my sheet music with fingerings that didn't require looking at my fingers. It's unlikely I'll ever fully get past that roadblock, and I still can't write out sheet music on paper without constant errors; I need software that can play the note for me as I put it in. Regardless, my ear remains good enough for me to remember what everyone else's parts sound like after a couple of orchestra rehearsals, so it's clearly not an indication of my musical level, or even my level of theory knowledge. I just can't learn it the same way you would, and you can't assume someone else can either.
This is an excellent video. I spent several years in a 'jazz coma' studying as much theory as possible, but I was so focused on theory that I missed the musicality for a long time. Once I decided I wasn't the next Pat Metheny and started playing some paid sideman gigs, I realized I could communicate music and play in a wider variety of genres that before. The theory gave me skills to understand and problem-solve in music and continue to teach myself. Eventually, I learned how to actually musically apply this stuff and not actively think about it anymore. Now, I focus more on story, emotion, sound, intention, etc. Focusing on the art with theory serving me rather than vice versa. I think of theory and art as a balance now. The theory helps me communicate, understand, and document my ideas, but the art is where the ideas originate. At least that's the work in progress. Much love and luck to whoever reads this
hey there!! i love your comment.. and can you answer me as im new to learning about music theory.. so im willing to learn the theory and balance it with art as you've mentioned.. but what theory should i learn if i wanna become a vocal performer? cause i've seen there's alot of theories like piano, guitar, violin theories etc.. so what specific theory i should learn? :) pls help 💌
@@haruka_niki Honestly, I'd recommend any musician, including vocalists, learn piano/keys. As a vocalist, you can use a keyboard to accompany yourself. For understanding music theory, the keyboard is extremely visual and simple to learn on. If you ever get into production down the line, you'll have a huge leg up on programming parts using 'piano roll', a way of inputting notes onto a grid using the piano keys as a guide. As far as 'what theory' to learn, I'd focus on the basic fundamentals of music - learn about scales, intervals, chords, chord progressions, and rhythm. Each topic is a deep well of lifelong learning. If you're unsure of where to begin, I really recommend exploring beginner theory lessons for a bit while you look for a private teacher that can help guide your progress. Also, be open to all genres as you learn - don't close yourself off to learning things from other instruments, genres, etc. Music is a language that transcends the boxes that we frequently put it into. If I could go back and teach myself when I was first learning theory, I'd have told myself to be more open minded from the very beginning
I’m a high school music teacher, and the stuff that some of my students come up with despite not knowing any theory is mind blowing - they’ll do bitonal, modulating, mode using songs and just tell me that they thought it sounded cool. They’ve been a good reminder for me to not get caught up solely on music theory and dive back into what I think sounds good first
I think “music theory” needs to be defined more clearly because not everyone understands it to be the same thing, and seems like that’s something Charles struggled with in this video. To me, notation has nothing to do with music theory. The question of “should I learn notation/sheet music” is very obvious to me: do you want to communicate with others using notation? If yes, then yes. You’ll now have access to learning from resources that use it, and you can now talk to other musicians using it. If you’re in a context where that doesn’t really matter (like electronic music production maybe), that skill is useless. This really is like learning a language. Learn French if you want to talk to people who speak French. Music theory I think is more analogous to literary analysis. Analyzing a novel or a poem can give you tools and structures that appear in that work, and you can then use those tools to help your own work. This is no longer about speaking the language correctly for communication. You are analyzing the language by applying structures to try and unlock HOW beauty was achieved. And when enough people use the same analysis structures, it gets codified into common terminology as theory: literary theory, film theory, music theory. This is purely now in the realm of subjectivity. If this theoretical analysis helps you create cool stuff, then great! But like Charles’ friend said it’s a purely retrospective thing. Something doesn’t sound good because it’s a 2-5-1; 2-5-1 is an attempt to explain why something sounds good. And if you understand and agree with that analysis, you now have a trick you can use to inspire or unblock your own writing.
this video kinda came at the perfect time. i’ve been trying to write a musical for months, but i’ve been too caught up in the theory behind trying to write it, and not the way it sounds when i actually listen back to something i’ve written. i get in my own way cause i’m like, “oh this should sound impressive in the theory i apply behind it,” when i really should just make something that i think sounds good. musical genius doesn’t come from intentionally creating something, it comes from the public’s general agreement that something you’ve made is good. my favorite quote about this is from a musical called sunday in the park with george- “stop worrying if your vision is new, let others make that decision, they usually do.” thank you, charles. i feel confident again to keep doing what i love.
This video was very validating for me as someone who couldnt ever afford traditional training! I've always explained my process as "idk the words for it, I just do it", then would learn random bits of theory and apply them in ways that sounded cool to me.. Hearing that idea supported feels like a reassuring hug 😊
10:42 - Sometimes, when Rick Beato does his "What Makes This Song Great" videos, viewers will clap back, "Whatever, that band / those musicians didn't know that's what they were doing." Beato has been known to respond, "I don't care; **I** know what they were doing, and **I'm** the one telling you about it!" He said this when he did the "Teen Spirit" video, if you want a reference.
He knows they don't know music theory and that they used their ear, he mentions that every time but he does deconstruct it from a theory standpoint so we can have a better understanding of it and WHY it sounds cool
Ive been composing by ear all my life, but it wasnt until I saw your EW&F video, and the 5th before the key change trick, that changed my world with composing. You dont need theory if you already explore alot of aspects of composing, but it sure helps to pull the curtain back from the mystery sometimes.
When I teach students, I focus on both building up knowledge of music theory, as well as developing the ear. Both, to me, are essential in musical knowledge. As Misha said, music is a language, something I use with my students repeatedly, and while you need to know the structure of the language, you also have colloquialisms and slang….which to me, is using your ear.
This is the best and most balanced take about music theory that I've come across, and I'm glad you made this video. I particularly love Misha's explanation of theory being a language, because at the end of the day, that's all it is - it's a means for us to analyze, describe and understand music (and all its building blocks). If you already have your own 'language' or framework for understanding music, that's essentially doing the same job as theory. To add to the discussion, a lot of people think that theory is a long and restricting set of rules and prescriptions, which it really isn't (and perhaps this is owing to the way theory is often taught). That's probably what feeds into the myth that learning theory limits your creativity. As a composer, I wouldn't say my knowledge of theory gets in the way of my creativity at all, it just gives me the tools I need to understand and describe it. Half the time I'm not even drawing upon my theory knowledge when composing. I use my ear to find what sounds good to me, and then I use theory to understand why it sounds good afterwards. I suspect it isn't a necessary component in my creative process because if I didn't know theory, I'd be very much like Misha in having my own 'language' to help me understand what I do musically. Great video! :)
Until tonight, I was firmly in the "you need to learn theory and read music to understand what you're doing" camp. And then this video came along. Even before he suggested we go and listen to Periphery I was starting to come around. Then I paused the video and listened to Periphery's top 6 tracks on spotify. Someone over there understands time signatures in an advanced way, but I now fully agree with Cornell here. Its not a genre I listen to, but holy shit can they hit. Thanks for the rec, Charles! Edit, I'll also say that as a tap dancer, I think that counting and the rhythmic side of music theory is super important, but I dont teach how to write it in notation. I just want my tap dancers to be able to count a 12 bar blues, and count the rhythm they make.
Thank you for this video Charles! I once had a discussion with someone who understood music theory but didn’t know how to play an instrument denounce my opinion on music, despite me playing the piano for 17 years and being self taught the whole way. The ability to hear and play songs is extremely valuable and fun, I don’t understand much music theory but I love playing songs and putting smiles on people’s faces.
I’ve said this once, and I’ll say it again. I always compose by ear first; plinking around on the piano while recording the audio into Logic through MIDI until I find an idea I like. But throughout my process as a composer, music theory is an afterthought to me. It comes in when I now need to refine those ideas and use orchestration techniques to get the sound I hear in my head to a format that other musicians can read easily. I have always had a strong ear having been in choir all throughout school, and my mother being a music teacher while my dad sings in barbershop. I could hear pieces and play them on the piano without knowing the theory behind it, but once I have explored the theory behind it, it brings a satisfaction and new level of appreciation to the music.
videos like this are so powerful because there’s a pressure on young musicians to learn theory and understand things well before creating, and while that can be useful it can also be harmful and get in the way of the music! thank you for making this :)
As far as the music theory part of this video goes, I think it depends on how you define music theory. To an extent, if you know what hand positions on a guitar sound good together you know at least a little bit of music theory. In that sense, none of the musicians you mentioned "didn't know theory." They still did to some extent. Of course we shouldn't give people crap for not knowing theory, but we also shouldn't go the other way and discourage people from learning it, which I feel is what we're doing by saying "you don't need to learn theory." Instead say something more inviting to theory like "theory is just describing what sounds good," "it's not just sheet music," or "it's simpler than you think!" - something that asks them to learn more and interact with other musicians who already know theory without denying the usefulness of more knowledge.
I usually think of music being the language, theory is the lexicon and grammar, and sheet music is the script. Like any English dictionary, the language is defined by the sounds and the meaning they impart, and the rest is just a way to describe and convey it.
One of the things you said that was really encouraging to a musician self-taught in drums/keys like me is in your video about the Charlie Brown Christmas Album, talking about Vince Guaraldi, and after talking about Guaraldi's thoughts on his own skill level, you concluded: "you can hear this is a person who understands how to very effectively play within their own ability level. Vince didn't have the technique of an Oscar Peterson, he maybe didn't have the harmonic fluence of a Bill Evans, but he played beautiful lines to navigate his own compositions and whatever tune he was playing at the moment." Ever since, whenever I practice improvising in any tune or jazz standard, I think about that and how I only need to play well within my own ability level; it doesn't need to sound technically superb to be melodious and good. And that's ultimately contributed to me being satisfied with the pace I'm going and the level I'm at.
I feel like it’s important to learn and practice in a way you genuinely enjoy doing it. If you like what you’re doing, you’ll spend more time on it and probably get better I think. Personally, I love improvising, writing and I like learning music theory and applying it to what I do. Meanwhile I don’t have fun reading sheet music and learning songs, even if it would make me better. I don’t find it productive to ruin something I like because I think I need to do it a certain way.
So I've been a musician for almost 30 years. I just learned some theory last year. I survived on noodling and ear training. Before last year I couldn't explain why I could play all over the fretboard and how it's all connected or even what I'm playing. Whenever band mates would ask me what chord I'm playing I'll say "oh it's C-something" LOL Throughout the years my ear got used to hearing different chord progressions and somehow I can resolve it and go to the next chord/note while improvising. I have gotten gigs with bands and recording in studios but I never used any theory at all. But now that I'm learning it, thanks to being bored because of the pandemic, it's actually nice that I can actually explain and understand what I am doing now. I still can't read sheet music though lol
Learning music theory basics isn’t hard and can be enjoyable. Just watching RUclips videos from people like our boi Charles is one of the best ways to learn, and is entertaining. Just practicing it every now and then is enough to progress as well!
This is so refreshing to hear someone that knows the theory to put it in perspective. When I started writing microtonal music I knew nothing about it, but I was like a kid in a candy shop just trying everything until something worked. Especially with microtonal music, which has very vague theory and conflicting symbols and language, I found myself completely free to just experiment and make something that I thought sounded good to me. I can't articulate it like you can but throwing conventional theory out the window has opened my ears to brand new sounds and that's all I care about. Thanks Charles!
How do you develop a "strong" musical ear? Because being able to associate a certain pitch to a note doesnt help you telling the difference between "good" and "bad" writing does it? Edit: please upvote this comment I really want this to be answered ^^
Course question: My partner, who learned piano traditionally and reads music, says I have a very good ear for finding keys and learning music I hear. I've done this on violin and piano but the piano is more accessible to me these days but I wouldn't say I know how to play piano. Would your class help me learn how to play piano and learn in a visual way so I can effectively use it as a tool to learn music how I typically do? I'm 34, a singer and can't read music efficiently. I loved folk music when I played violin which lends itself a lot to learning by ear. But could I eventually learn how to play jazz this way and with your course, at least to start? Thank you for this video and all of them, sometimes they are just out of reach for my understanding but they are incredibly interesting all the same.
Great question! It sounds like you have some music background and that you play other instruments, at least violin? The Intro to Piano course is best for people who haven't done ANY piano and maybe very little to no music on any other instruments either. Here's basically how I would explain it: If you haven't ever really studied music on any instrument at all and don't know any theory or how to read notes, you'll get a TON out of the course! If you HAVE played music to any significant extent on another instrument and/or if you know the basics of some theory and reading music, you'll get a ton out of it specifically as it applies to learning to PLAY the piano, but you may find some of the beginner theory to be review, rather than new information. For the near future, we're actually working on an entire course- "Piano for Non-Pianists" aimed at helping people who already know some music tackle the physical/technical side of learning piano.
I think of it like storytelling. You absolutely don't need to be able to read, or have any understanding of what a three-act structure is -- you can still tell an engaging story just through practice and observation. Learning the theory and reading stories will allow for a new level of depth and context, but definitely not a mandatory step 1.
I failed out of music college after failing theory... Twice. It took me a long time after that to find my way back to loving playing but now I know in it really doesn't matter
I've been self teaching myself to make music for something like 12 years, and this video is like a giant breath of fresh air dude. The most I know how to do read sheet music cause of middle school band, and reading bass always is a problem for me cause I only learned treble. But everything else, from like the name of chords, modes, all that is always alien to me, even though I watch these videos it just doesnt stick. I simply know what sounds good to me. and generally all my music either sounds sad or serious lol but it's how I make music. My music isnt perfect, I'm still learning, and I dont doubt that if I knew theory I could problem solve more efficiently... it's just tldr its really a relief to hear these kinds of videos
I learned sheet music playing piano, did ABRSM music theory exams around the same time as doing their piano exams, up to grade 5. But I didn't use theory for anything, and didn't play other music aside from exam pieces on the piano, so I quit lessons. A year after doing grade 5 theory (so about 7 years ago), I jumped to grade 8 euphonium (having done grade 5 euph about 4 years before) and grade 5 trombone (either side of the examiners' break). I've been playing in bands on various brass instruments for the last 11 years, and the experience of playing in bands (especially big band, and getting used to playing brass band stuff in treble clef in Bb/Eb then going to big band and concert band and playing lower brass all in bass clef in C, or transposing F horn parts while playing them on an Eb tenor horn) has been a much greater help to my playing and understanding than going through the ABRSM music theory books.
It is great that so many music educators are talking about using your ear. I'm fifty and have been playing music since age 4 or so. It was always classical or somethings like. Sure, some told me to "listen" to music, but it was more important that I learn sheet music and theory. It was as if "if you put your finger here and there in the right sequences, then you will make the sounds that are expected." If you did it right, you matched the sounds of the piece you were trying to learn. Your ear solves the problem automatically. I don't regret learning how to read music or theory. I regret that I used for so long as the guidance on where to put my fingers, and didn't use my ear instead. Now I have both, though my ear isn't as good as I wished. When I listen to simple music I can almost see the sheet music in real time. When I try to play music, I travel in time. Because I do a lot of "cover" work, I transcribe a ton. I find myself using sheet music or tabs much less often. They are great starting points. My ear tells me the difference, and then I write out the notation. I only use sheet music as a reference in case I get lost at a gig, not as what decides I should perform.
As someone who started learning sheet music at a young age, I wish someone told me as a kid that ear training is just as important as reading the music.
I don't know a thing about music and can't play a single instrument, but your video explanation + conversation with your guest was done in a crystal clear way. Thank you for this fantastic educational video.
This video comes at the perfect time for me, cause I want to study Audio and Music Production. What you said is incredibly helpful to me and Im sure many others. Thanks
I learned by ear 👂🏽 then learned what I was doing with Music Theory 🎼 . But it only allowed me to add a name to what I was doing naturally 🤓. It did opened me up to using jazz scales 💃 and learn cool progressions. But at some point an artist manifest artistic maturity and the thing that matters is music moving us profoundly 💗
I love how you used Jeux D'eau as the sheet music in the thumbnail of the video - I'm currently working on learning it and man that passage is so painful lol. Great video!
I love this video! I joined my collegiate acappella group with barely any theory experience, but eventually I became our lead arranger after spending tons of time doing things by intuition. I picked up theory along the way, which helped tons, but I didn't NEED it to get started!
I really needed to hear what you said at 15:37 I’ve felt like my skills have been at a deficient because I create these fabricated barriers. But it is important to follow my ears above all. Thank you.
I learned guitar by ear and occassional tabs for reference (which I would often correct). Either way, I just do it for fun, for myself, so I don't feel too inclined to learn music in-depth, but I do enjoy watching your videos about music theory, because the concepts are so interesting.
Great video Charles, but I think you overlooked one of the biggest common denominators when it came to people who didn't learn sheet music/theory: They play guitar. I started out on trumpet and then I learned piano. I am very familiar with the idea of sheet music, but when I learned guitar, I didn't use sheet music to learn it. Maybe it's just because it's harder on it (there's 5 different ways to play middle C), but also the tradition around guitar just doesn't place much value on sheet music. Learning the minor pentatonic scale and power chords is honestly enough to be able to bullshit your way through a lot of rock music, at least when you're starting out
Thanks Charles. This has been a challenge fore for years. I play by ear I always have, even in lesson, which is sometimes a crutch or an excuse to not challenge my self. . . But it's also how I learn best. Thanks!
The sheet music shown at 1:03 and 1:35 is of Chopin's Etude Op.10 No.11 which is a relatively easy etude to play and learn. The music shown at 1:47 is Scarbo from Gaspard de la Nuit by Ravel with an absolutely disgusting engraving. This piece is a monster to play and learn.
There's also the diminished chord who's incredibly helpful in jazz or other stuff, you use that chord to go anywhere you want to go, it's a sort of platform and from there you choose the direction (a scale... And other stuff)
Love this conversation. Your ear is by far the most important. But for sure it’s helpful to learn scales and chords, and even how to understand chord progressions like 2 5 1. But if you don’t know the numbers and still can play d minor G dom7 C Major 7 it’s good enough to function.
I'm in the very early stages of the beginner course at Cornell Music Academy. I haven't had a lot of free time but I'm dying to write my own songs and I've never been good at playing any instruments. I've got chronic pain that makes my hands and arms hurt while trying to play the piano, even with a relaxed stance. Whether or not I reach a point where I can physically play piano, I hope to at least learn enough theory so I can use FL studio or something to write my own stuff (but playing an instrument live would be a plus). Glad I saw this, I was low on motivation and it got me excited again. Wish me luck!
The music / language comparison really makes sense here. You can learn how to speak in a language and never really understand the grammatical rules of that language, you will express those rules tacitly but you may not be able to articulate what it means or even write them down but you can still communicate. Music is like this. You can hang around musicians and immerse yourself in the culture of music and develop a way to communicate musically and learn musical “slang” or shorthand without ever learning how to articulate this in abstract theoretical sense. This is how it is for me. I can communicate musically but I don’t know how to write or read but from listening to complex music I tacitly express those concepts through being absorbed in it
This video was posted just in time, I was filling really frustrated for playing around with the chords and melody of the piece instead of following exactly what is written on the sheet music... thanks now I feel better...
My music professor always said that theory by itself is boring, what’s ideal is practice before theory. Exposing yourself to music and exploring that FIRST before learning theory is ideal because yeah it makes sense, you’re exposing yourself to music (like how I exposed myself in choir singing, and performing in musicals) then learning theory to explain what you just did and further what you’re doing really helps in understanding better and takes away the intimidation that some usually feel when taking the daunting task of learning sheet music and theory because you have experiences to relate the lessons to. That’s what I did and man, that was phenomenal advice because it boosted my development as a musician and composer to lightspeed. I find that I’m both by ear and by theory. When I’m composing a piece of music, and the deadline’s so far away that I can take my time with my piece, I use my ear, I choose what feels good and sounds good, but theory works in the background to help me solve areas when I struggle or need something fancy to get from one place or another. However, when the deadline is close, and I need to write a piece of music in a short time, I go on autopilot where theory is taking the wheel and my ear’s in the background giving artistic advice. Heck, in pieces that I take my time with, there’s a point when the whole piece is fleshed out in my mind, and all I need is to finish the piece, and just polish the piece, autopilot mode takes over, theory takes the wheel while my ear is in the background supervising.
I didn't begin to write and read sheet music until like 10yrs into music. At the time of learning, I myself didn't feel it was important and was happy with what I was doing. Then I got really into wanting to learn it (as a composer and someone who has to distribute sheet music, this is a very important role) and so I began to. Now I am a music theory nerd and I absolutely love music theory. I'd say that yes it is not a must have in many cases, but it's just something that is really nice to have and to also know exactly what you're doing.
6:40 This moment happens a lot with visual artists too. It's like you're training yourself to perform in only a specific language (visually, musically, etc), so it makes sense that you only know the words related to performance in that language.
Thanks for the encouragement! I’m trying to learn guitar, but I’ve had so many doubts since I’ve never been able to play an instrument before and know nothing about music theory.
The big thing about guitar in terms of theory is that there are so many chord and tab charts that it’s not at all necessary to sit down and study Beethoven to play Green Day. Sure, figuring out fingerings for minor, major, and 7th chords will absolutely help you, but even then, once you learn one chord shape, you’ve learned 12 chords! Best thing to do is just learn the music you love, starting at the easy side and moving up, and you’ll be integrating those licks elsewhere in no time! :)
My grandma was a fairly popular classical piano teacher in my area. She went to college for music, learned music theory, was also good at math and all that (yes I just humble- bragged my gma, she's pretty awesome). She tried to teach it to me, but I couldn't grasp it. When Misha started explaining how music works for him, it hit me so hard. That's how I feel, it's not something I can learn through theory. It's like the architect mind vs Painter mind. Both are creative minds- one through order, and one through chaos- and they both make art.
I began playing the Hammond B3 over 50 years ago and I have thought this from day one. My classical training was extremely useful but I tried not to cling to it. Music must be felt. Deeply felt. Theory and training are just tool to make the expression process easier and smoother, in my opinion.
I relate to Misha a lot. What he said about finding it hard to shift from the non-theory way of learning to theory way of learning is so true. I was in piano lessons for a year from age 8 to 9 and I remember feeling frustrated with learning theory because I had already developed to learn music by hearing it and just going from there. I've also been to guitar and bass lessons when I was younger and those were really helpful for my music learning. I still can't really read sheet music but that hasn't stopped me from enjoying playing and composing music. Playing guitar and bass are just hobbies for me and I don't take playing very seriously but I still enjoy playing a lot. What I've found to be beneficial for people like myself is more so understanding rhythm rather than sheet music. Understanding rhythm and the feel of music is really where it's at as said in the video.
Great video! This is pretty much exactly what I tell people about theory, using your ears and learning your instument well enough so you can get what's in your head to come out your fingers. 🙂 Photography is similar; don't let the rules of composition and colour theory dictate how you shoot a scene, shoot how you feel it. Adults always think the rules are a shortcut to learning things, I think you're better off learning like a child, conducting experiments and understanding how things work.
The point made by this video is definitely valid, but speaking from experience as a pianist, learning to read sheet music and especially learning to sight read has opened up a whole world of music for me to play, so I do think sheet music has tremendous value, and music theory is really good to know if you're a songwriter/composer as it just gives you more tools in your toolkit. But you are right, you don't need music theory at least starting out and it should not be a barrier to entry for people interested in music.
For some people, reading sheet music, even after studying for decades, is more laborious and error-prone than learning a piece of music by ear. I guess it depends on how complex a piece it is. I'm glad it helped you!
I did Grade 8 practical piano and Grade 6 Theory but I struggle with playing by ear like improvising, it doesn't come naturally to me as I need sheet music in order to play. So now im processing all the pop songs chords and trying to practise remembering the chords but I really admire pianists like yrself that can play freely without music
I am really grateful that you made this video because I’ve been trying to make my music, and, although I can read sheet music, I don’t have much knowledge on music theory and it was making me doubt myself. I think I’ll give composing another try! Thanks Charles! :D
Thank you for this. I had theory drilled into me and it started messing with my head because I could only focus on the technical aspect and it made music less fun and less about feeling.
What you and Misha talked about is EXACTLY what I do. I have a degree in music. I took years of theory. I like looking into it. When I write? I ignore it. I just mess with sounds and noises. Later I might use some of my knowledge I put it together in a different way. But the creating of the main ideas is almost always messing around. Theory is just a language and a tool, it is not a ruleset. I still highly recommend it to any musician, especially if you work by ear. It makes your ear training speed incredibly fast.
Thank you so much for saying this. I've always loved music, and been really good at playing by ear, but no matter how hard I tried, I could never figure out how to sightread. Specifically, it was sight reading the rhythms that I could never manage--sight reading pitch isn't a problem for me. Everyone always told me that I just wasn't trying hard enough, and that anyone who had as good of an ear as me should be able to learn it if I just tried harder. But in college, I took a formal music class (as opposed to lessons in playing instruments--my main instrument being the flute),and I ended up getting a D in the class because, despite getting extra tutoring from the instructor and spending hours trying to learn, I just couldn't figure out how to sightread. And I also figured out WHY I can't sight read. Turns out, sight-reading ability relies heavily on working memory and mental processing speed--both of which I am impaired in due to my rather profound ADD/ADHD (I took a weschler test in middle school so I know for a fact that my working memory and processing speed are lower than average, despite an above average score overall). I never took another music class again, and lately, when I've tried to join casual ensembles at the University where I'm pursuing my phd in math, I've encountered so much judgement for not being able to sightread or count rhythms, even though I'm able to play the rhythms just as well using my ear. Heck, I once had my chamber ensemble teacher tell me that you can't possibly play a clave rhythm without western-style sight-reading and counting--clave rhythms originate from the traditional music of sub-saharan africa, which, despite producing some of the world's most rhythmically complex music, famously does not use notation at all! It's just so frustrating. I love music, but the music community--especially music academia--have hurt me deeply, and made me feel worthless because of something that, it turns out, isn't even my fault.
I agree, having the internal intuition (and confidence) to guide you in laying down a sound you have in your head, and then turning that into a song, is probably more important than knowing all the deep theory. That said, I have fun taking a recent pop song and finding the chord structure, figuring out the key and chord progression, if there are chords outside the key etc. This is way easy on most radio songs, but that be about it.
Music theory is a construct developed to understand the sounds that we all naturally interpret as satisfying. If we already know what sounds good, then you dont NEED to know why
I’ve been complimented numerous times and asked to play drums with friends/when jamming with someone new. I went to drum lessons once a week for just about a year, only having learned to understand tabs, not really sheet music, definitely more by ear. From there, I have never went back to reading or knowing theory for the drums yet I can play by ear a very healthy amount and can “impersonate” SO many different genres and sounds. I’d say, the only difficult thing is not learning a proper technique to use that to at least make it easier/more effective to play the things you want. I have certainly developed many “aloppy habits” over the years that I wish I didn’t, but I now believe will be harder to undo than if I had learned them the first time. My father was a pianist/keys player, self taught, absolutely a pleasure to play with according to everyone that had ever played with him. You definitely can develop such an intuitive and interesting way of understanding and speaking this musical language if you play by ear! Sweet vidjea, Charles 🎶
Wow, what Misha said about "being more comfortable in that language" really resonates with me. I have grown up in music but, due to a combination of lack of discipline, ADHD, and just lack of time, I never really fully developed a musical language, or a strong interest in a specific style. I just "like what sounds good", and my tastes have expanded as I expose myself to more music, and actively worked to be less elitist and more healthy about what I consider "good" and "bad" music. So, I'm actually learning theory as best I can to develop my own language, and effectively communicate the nameless ideas I have in my head. It grounds these fleeting ideas I have in my head, allowing them to more effectively stay when I think of them, and that allows me to then actually do the things I set out to do. It helps me transcribe music to create lead sheets for the people I play with and am in charge of. It helps me to put a target in front of me I can use to improve. I work to teach the concepts I know to those I work with, so that we can share a common language, and so we can avoid wasting time because none of us are actually experienced and knowledgable enough yet to just communicate to each other in our own, raw, languages. And while I would never force anybody to learn music theory because they have to, to me, it has become a crucial grounding devices that I would say is something everybody who doesn't know anything about music should definitely try to learn. Anybody can make great music without music theory, but music theory is an excellent way to make your ideas take form if actually progressing and creating has otherwise been a difficulty.
I think a couple definitions can help here. "Music theory" can mean several different things. 1. It is often used to mean "19th century Western European harmony rules." In this sense, yeah most popular/jazz musicians don't (shouldn't?) bother with it. 2. As an academic discipline, music theory (generally) seeks to answer two questions: how does one write in the style of [genre or composer]? and why is this piece of music effective? 3. Music theory can then also refer to the language we use to describe the results of number 2. In a broad sense, if your music sounds anything like anybody else's music, you're using music theory - the principles and patterns your ears have picked up from listening to music your whole life. It may not be 19th Century W. European Harmony music theory, and you may not have the language to describe it, but you're following conventions that could be (and likely have been) described in a music theory. Also, as a composer, I rely heavily on my ears of course, but I love learning music theory/ies (in an academic, bookish way) because it adds tools to my tool kit. I can write with 19th c. harmony rules, or I can try Palestrina style counterpoint, or build my music using ideas from Persichetti's book on Twentieth Century Harmony. Learning music theory (academically) is one way to expand my creative horizons.
I kind of found out that some people that learned how to play music just by learning how to play notes, actually had no idea what they were doing after years of practise. Their musicality was not at all triggered to develop learning through this method. They learned, that the music only sounded good, when playing axactly what the sheet showed, without questioning why it sounded the way it did. This truly shocked me sometimes, knowing that some of them taught music to other people, not knowing relationships between notes, scales, etcetera. I myself started off learning a lot by ear, without the theory. 20 years later, I finally started learning theory, when it klicked. I'm definitely not at the level I want to be at, but I do understand a lot more and am actually able to explain others why something works or not. And even though they themselves sometimes don't know theory, they do get it through logical information and axamples.
This is a wonderful video. Thank you for this balanced take! I'm glad I understand my language of music & I can learn to translate, rather than learn a whole other language again...though, it isn't a bad idea to do so 🤷🏾♂️
Love your stuff, Charles! Here're my thought: I mostly learn music theory to broaden my choices when composing, arranging and producing... Also, knowing music theory makes you literate in the music industry - knowing at least some general aspects of music theory (e.g. notes, chords, chord extensions, modes, meters, wheel of 5ths etc.) simply helps you communicate with theoretically trained professionals in the industry, when you get to that point - transcribers, orchestrators, performers, conductors etc... Imagine trying to explain to a classically trained pianist that you want them to go from Dorian mode in some key to a Lydian mode in some other key, using such and such modal transition IF you don't know the terms. Like using hands and signs to explain to a foreigner (where neither of your speaks the other person's language) some abstract concept...
Yeah, I did up to the British ABRSM Grade 4 on piano when I was a kid, then just messed around doing my own thing on my own time for fun for a decade, and just the other day I discovered I can play Grade 8 pieces. Score 1 for intuition!
Reading sheet music, especially for pianist/composers, gives you access to soooo much information, inspiration and education. You can just look at a page and decode masterworks from almost every great composer who came before. If you want to be a composer yourself it’s a superpower. You can get by without it, but it can really limit you. Too many people with a good ear and who pick things up quickly skip it because they think they don’t need it, and end up years later way behind people who did the boring practice to learn it and now have quick access to so many possibilities that they don’t. The lesson shouldn’t be you don’t need it. The lesson should be start easy while you’re young and learn it bit by bit, so you don’t end up years later being hugely deficient in a language that other people in the same business speak fluently. This is if you’re at all serious.
I really think a lot of people need to hear this. I'm a composer who got my start just doing everything by ear because my first encounter with making music was in software that looked nothing like traditional notation. From there I eventually did learn about reading music, and did study some music theory, but for me it was always secondary, supplemental, it never replaced my earliest intuitions and what my ear told me about how music works. So, to this day, while I'm somewhat conversant in music theory and can occasionally use it for analysis and to help me solve problems, it's nowhere near the front of my mind when I'm writing, and I can still trace the origins of the kind of musical choices I like to make all the way back to when I was experimenting with music making on old computers with nothing but my ear to rely on. My whole idea of voice leading and counterpoint, for example, comes from intuitions developed from working with software where everything was recorded in single-note tracks, and then later combine, and I was later surprised to learn that a lot of people think much more in chord blocks, and have to develop their contrapuntal skills separately. Anyway, you're rapidly becoming one of my favourite music RUclipsrs because you approach the topic with both genuine joy, and an approachability that feels very welcoming I think to people who might feel a bit intimidated by Theory RUclips.
I think Chopin etude op. 10 n. 11 is actually my favorite etude, I really appreciated seeing it mentioned here. Have you ever studied it or other Chopin etudes? I think it would be cool to hear you play some of those, and very VERY interesting to hear you talking and sharing your opinions and thoughts about those etudes viewed from a jazz perspective. They are among the most beautiful and important piano works of all time and there is a lot to talk about. If you haven't studied them or if you don't know too much about them it would be even more interesting, hearing your impression and sincere thoughts. My mind was blown when I listened to some of these for the first time. Some people may consider it sacrilegious to hear a jazz pianist talking about Chopin etudes but I think you shouldn't worry about these people; there is too little dialogue between classical and jazz worlds and I think it should be very interesting to see more of that. If you ever are going to make such a video, please I would love to hear your opinion on op. 10 n. 1, 3, 5, 11, 12 and op 25 n. 2, 5, 7. Particularly op. 25 n.5 but honestly it would be cool with any of them.
Im a drummer that started learning composing, music theory and piano about half a year ago in music school. Most of the time i write stuff that i can't even explain with my current knowledge, i just trust my ears and it works, but i would love to find out what i actually did. That's why im so exited for music theory classes haha.
when i was learning guitar as a teenager my teacher would put sheet music in front of me and then play it out - so since i wasn't really good at playing off the sheet i just tried to remember what he played and copy it (while pretending to read the notes). i always felt a little bad that i didn't try harder to get into it but at the same time that ironically helped me to develop my ear and quickly translate what i hear to my playing (or play out smth i hear in my head)
My music teacher detested me because I couldn't read sheet music. I can play by ear though. I would memorise songs and pretend to read it off the sheet. He never tried to nurture my playing by ear or encourage it. It was always theory theory theory. I wish teachers had your approach.
EARS DOWN the most important video about theory on the 'Tubes today. You brought up many good points. I think of theory as being descriptive, not prescriptive. It's about the ears!
it would be so good if i can find people who areticulate how they think of music that they can arrange and compose easily someone who fits this description and ffrequently explains how he thinks is christiaan van hemert coming from violin background so knowing music theory on the violin but since he couldnt really use music theory on the guitar, he used his own logical way of approaching the guitar to become good at jazz solos
If you HAVEN'T watched the whole video yet, music theory and reading sheet music is a GOOD THING. But ears are way more important, and I want to encourage people not to get caught up on the theory. That will come in time! Just start playing!
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
I think people misunderstand how fundamental "Music Theory" is. Yes, reading and writing are simple forms of what you describe as Music Theory.
Simple things such as knowing the notes on a piano, being able to sing in western 12-tet tuning, knowing solfege, knowing roman numerals (like you mention later in the video) those are all justifiably parts of music theory just as much as the others are.
I'm still watching the video, but I've been getting better at reading midi rolls and sheet music feels so antiquated now. Like you can color code different midi voices and the opacity of the notes changes with velocity. Doing equivalent things with standard sheet music would look so gross and complex. No one reads from piano rolls for live performance, but I think sheet music should be similarly modernized bc it can get extremely messy and illegible.
My ears are amazing but I don't even know what a 1 4 5 progression is.......but I can tune my guitar to 440 w/o a tuner! */failure* I need someone to open up my head and pour the theory in, so badly. I don't even understand the concept of keys beyond "it's based on the root note".
To learning via immersion and exposure you could probably add, as with learning any other language, courage - ie to try, even if you make mistakes - because you learn from those too.
One of my college professors told us multiple times that "music theory follows the music" and not the other way around, and I think it's really important to think about the fact that all music theory was created to help explain music that already existed in the first place.
When I was studying linguistics they said that the field is "descriptive, not prescriptive," in other words, the rules they come up with aren't meant to be followed as laws but just to describe the way people were already speaking. So I apply that concept to a lot of things like this now, I think it's a great way of describing it.
(also nice pfp, cave story based)
This is only half true, I think. When people write, they build on the language of the people that came before them and the innovators are usually really well versed in the previous theory. Bach built on the theory of Fux and approached counterpoint with rules he gave himself, Shoenberg got bored with others’ theory and created a whole new branch of music still widespread in academia today based more on creating rules that constrain the options, my jazz teachers live by the mantra imitate, assimilate, and then innovate. By choosing to write in an existing genre, you adopt constraints and rules that guide you, even when you don’t think about it actively.
@@drewcomposed Well, I guess the point is to limit yourself rather than feel limited by conventions and requirements other people throw at you. It's certainly often a good idea to adopt them, and you'll often do so unconsciously as a result of your listening, but the key is that other people shouldn't be able to tell you that you have to.
I think it works both ways... being able to analyse other people's work helps you improve, and knowing MT informs your own musical decisions when you write and arrange your pieces.
But, yeah, music came first, theory came to explain it. We all know what happens if the process is reversed - take Pythagorean tuning. It (probably) looked dynamite on parchment, but in practice it produced idiotic things like the wolf interval and allegedly the Western world was stuck with this "pure" music theory for centuries....
Wrong
I think the conclusion is basically just that theory shouldn't replace intuition. The language analogy is 100% spot on because when speaking, you construct your speech based on the accumulated experience from emersion, without needing to write a single letter, or needing to carefully consider the exact vocab or expressions you need to use. It's helpful to know for the sake of incorporating it into that accumulated experience and making it part of your natural intuition
Well i can make a video that says "mozart is a really bad composer" and in the end of the video after 20 minute i try to say that i meant badass! No, the seductive titles are a really bad thing especially for a guy that may have influence on musicians who may take the title as real.
Yeah but surely we learn the "sheet music" for speech at an early age?
@@nezkeys79 You didn't learn any of the rules of grammar, punctuation, vocab, verb conjugation, etc. before you entered school, did you? Not in any meaningful capacity, I don't imagine. But, most people can still speak well enough at the age of 5 or 6 to communicate pretty complex thoughts and feelings. Knowing the exact rules for how you would write your speech isn't necessary for actually speaking, same as how knowing the exact rules of how you would transcribe your music to sheet music doesn't matter when actually performing the music.
Dude, if this was how any teacher in the school system (especially American) viewed how to teach a language, I genuinely feel like students would actually learn the language
@@rohanphilip491 Well the trouble with that is that as you get older it becomes harder and harder to learn a new language, just because of brain architecture. So the immersion approach may no longer work on its own in the way that it does for native speakers; you may have to use it to supplement more manual language rule learning, which is really difficult to then turn into fluent speech. It's the same thing with music; if you're older and you didn't listen to music at ALL when you were a kid (which is extremely rare and unusual) then you may need to rely on theory to painstakingly learn what's supposed to sound good. But for people who have already constructed an intuition of what sounds good, just from immersion when they were much younger, theory will just be a way to understand differently what they were already doing in their brain.
When I started learning piano I relied mostly on RUclips tutorials and by ear, and I feel like it helped out majorly when I actually started learning theory!
Where did you learn theory? I'm not sure where to start
@Tapro Music Thank you, I'll give that a try :)
@@Lumpiluk at the start, mostly off various RUclips videos and theory books for beginners, then I started getting lessons. Another thing I did to understand some more terminology was watch people like Charles or Adam Neely, and if there wasn't anything I understood I'd look it up and write it down
When you accidentally pun, #majorly
@@RC-my8fr it wasn't an intented joke, it was accidental
As an amateur musician, I was just talking to a friend of mine recently that although I had a few years of piano lessons (and then sort of self-taught myself after those ended), I really don't know much at all about music theory, and I felt that this lack was preventing me from excelling in the music that I write. I can read sheet music, but that's it. I still feel like I want to dig into more theory at some point, but you've given me a bit of confidence to keep writing and creating, and not let my lack of knowledge stop me.
If you're writing any music at all then you're probably not lacking the ability to write good music that "excels" based on what you already know. In fact you may get to a certain point where someone says "use a ____" and you say "what is that" and they explain what it is and you realize you were already using it.
Maybe this is unrelated, but part of the trouble with writing music, in my experience, is that you may write something perfectly good and then listen to it and say "this is bad, it sounds bad" even though nobody else would say that. You're gonna be more critical of yourself, so if you're brave enough to share that music anyway, people will probably like it. (And if they don't, sucks for them.)
True, but please take music theory some time soon. I wish u all the best :)
I'm the other way around. A whole lot of theory, now it's a game of catch up trying to get the muscle memory down to use it all. I will say that understanding theory makes learning new instruments way faster.
The best part about music theory is that it gives you the ability to learn and adapt. It lets you take something you like, that you want to make, but don't know how, and learn the patterns and mechanics behind it so that you can use it for yourself.
I specifically got into music theory solely bc of JRPG music and Citypop and walked out a jazz and bossa nova fan lol
A little theory, acquired bit by bit can be very helpful to an improviser/composer/arranger on any level, even the most informal. My recommendation: understand the diatonic scale and how seven chords are made from it. Memorize COLD the spellings of the seven triads of the C major scale. Also memorize the seven-letters of the series of thirds: CEGBDFA (and be able to start that sequence from any note). This is invaluable because the spelling (in the sense of the letter only) is the same for all triads in all keys. Move from there to the key signatures in the circle of fifths, if you don't already know them. Memorizing that seven-note series of thirds and its application in the seven triads of the diatonic scale is staggeringly, unbelievably useful. You will know how to spell chords as a matter of second nature, not stumbling to work it out.
After the triads, then tackle seventh chords. The beauty is you already have the series in memory. To make C a (maj) 7th chord, you add one more third: CEGB, of course by memorizing the triads alone, you've internalized both CEG and EGB. With the series memorized, it becomes easy to stack thirds up to the 13th. There are only 7 thirds to stack: root, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th. That's it.
As with adding the accidentals of the different key signatures, the basic spelling of larger/more extended chords (7th to 13th), the simple sequence provides the underlying structure and you simply add whatever alterations (b5, #5, b9, #11, etc.) onto it. The point is you don't struggle to spell-the structure is imprinted on your memory.
@@anthonyodonnell6105 This assumes that associating the pitches with their letter names is the easiest and most intuitive way for you to think about them. I've always struggled with that, I could memorize a bunch of note names and then have no idea what they sounded like, probably because of the same mental processing issues that made simple math calculations incredibly slow and painful. I got by by associating the letter names, what they looked like on a staff, and what they looked like on a piano keyboard, and then painstakingly played out my sheet music on the piano for a while until I figured out what it sounded like, at which point I could memorize that and associate it with my finger movements. I was unable to sight-read at any reasonable speed, or internalize music by sight-reading it, until I switched to a single-note wind instrument on which I could associate notes in my sheet music with fingerings that didn't require looking at my fingers. It's unlikely I'll ever fully get past that roadblock, and I still can't write out sheet music on paper without constant errors; I need software that can play the note for me as I put it in. Regardless, my ear remains good enough for me to remember what everyone else's parts sound like after a couple of orchestra rehearsals, so it's clearly not an indication of my musical level, or even my level of theory knowledge. I just can't learn it the same way you would, and you can't assume someone else can either.
This is an excellent video. I spent several years in a 'jazz coma' studying as much theory as possible, but I was so focused on theory that I missed the musicality for a long time. Once I decided I wasn't the next Pat Metheny and started playing some paid sideman gigs, I realized I could communicate music and play in a wider variety of genres that before. The theory gave me skills to understand and problem-solve in music and continue to teach myself. Eventually, I learned how to actually musically apply this stuff and not actively think about it anymore. Now, I focus more on story, emotion, sound, intention, etc. Focusing on the art with theory serving me rather than vice versa. I think of theory and art as a balance now. The theory helps me communicate, understand, and document my ideas, but the art is where the ideas originate. At least that's the work in progress. Much love and luck to whoever reads this
hey there!! i love your comment.. and can you answer me as im new to learning about music theory.. so im willing to learn the theory and balance it with art as you've mentioned.. but what theory should i learn if i wanna become a vocal performer? cause i've seen there's alot of theories like piano, guitar, violin theories etc.. so what specific theory i should learn? :) pls help 💌
@@haruka_niki Honestly, I'd recommend any musician, including vocalists, learn piano/keys. As a vocalist, you can use a keyboard to accompany yourself. For understanding music theory, the keyboard is extremely visual and simple to learn on. If you ever get into production down the line, you'll have a huge leg up on programming parts using 'piano roll', a way of inputting notes onto a grid using the piano keys as a guide.
As far as 'what theory' to learn, I'd focus on the basic fundamentals of music - learn about scales, intervals, chords, chord progressions, and rhythm. Each topic is a deep well of lifelong learning.
If you're unsure of where to begin, I really recommend exploring beginner theory lessons for a bit while you look for a private teacher that can help guide your progress. Also, be open to all genres as you learn - don't close yourself off to learning things from other instruments, genres, etc. Music is a language that transcends the boxes that we frequently put it into. If I could go back and teach myself when I was first learning theory, I'd have told myself to be more open minded from the very beginning
I’m a high school music teacher, and the stuff that some of my students come up with despite not knowing any theory is mind blowing - they’ll do bitonal, modulating, mode using songs and just tell me that they thought it sounded cool. They’ve been a good reminder for me to not get caught up solely on music theory and dive back into what I think sounds good first
I think “music theory” needs to be defined more clearly because not everyone understands it to be the same thing, and seems like that’s something Charles struggled with in this video. To me, notation has nothing to do with music theory. The question of “should I learn notation/sheet music” is very obvious to me: do you want to communicate with others using notation? If yes, then yes. You’ll now have access to learning from resources that use it, and you can now talk to other musicians using it. If you’re in a context where that doesn’t really matter (like electronic music production maybe), that skill is useless. This really is like learning a language. Learn French if you want to talk to people who speak French.
Music theory I think is more analogous to literary analysis. Analyzing a novel or a poem can give you tools and structures that appear in that work, and you can then use those tools to help your own work. This is no longer about speaking the language correctly for communication. You are analyzing the language by applying structures to try and unlock HOW beauty was achieved. And when enough people use the same analysis structures, it gets codified into common terminology as theory: literary theory, film theory, music theory. This is purely now in the realm of subjectivity. If this theoretical analysis helps you create cool stuff, then great! But like Charles’ friend said it’s a purely retrospective thing. Something doesn’t sound good because it’s a 2-5-1; 2-5-1 is an attempt to explain why something sounds good. And if you understand and agree with that analysis, you now have a trick you can use to inspire or unblock your own writing.
THIS! ☝
this video kinda came at the perfect time. i’ve been trying to write a musical for months, but i’ve been too caught up in the theory behind trying to write it, and not the way it sounds when i actually listen back to something i’ve written. i get in my own way cause i’m like, “oh this should sound impressive in the theory i apply behind it,” when i really should just make something that i think sounds good. musical genius doesn’t come from intentionally creating something, it comes from the public’s general agreement that something you’ve made is good. my favorite quote about this is from a musical called sunday in the park with george- “stop worrying if your vision is new, let others make that decision, they usually do.” thank you, charles. i feel confident again to keep doing what i love.
This video was very validating for me as someone who couldnt ever afford traditional training! I've always explained my process as "idk the words for it, I just do it", then would learn random bits of theory and apply them in ways that sounded cool to me.. Hearing that idea supported feels like a reassuring hug 😊
10:42 - Sometimes, when Rick Beato does his "What Makes This Song Great" videos, viewers will clap back, "Whatever, that band / those musicians didn't know that's what they were doing." Beato has been known to respond, "I don't care; **I** know what they were doing, and **I'm** the one telling you about it!"
He said this when he did the "Teen Spirit" video, if you want a reference.
Its His House, His Rules.
He knows they don't know music theory and that they used their ear, he mentions that every time but he does deconstruct it from a theory standpoint so we can have a better understanding of it and WHY it sounds cool
Ive been composing by ear all my life, but it wasnt until I saw your EW&F video, and the 5th before the key change trick, that changed my world with composing. You dont need theory if you already explore alot of aspects of composing, but it sure helps to pull the curtain back from the mystery sometimes.
When I teach students, I focus on both building up knowledge of music theory, as well as developing the ear. Both, to me, are essential in musical knowledge. As Misha said, music is a language, something I use with my students repeatedly, and while you need to know the structure of the language, you also have colloquialisms and slang….which to me, is using your ear.
This is the best and most balanced take about music theory that I've come across, and I'm glad you made this video. I particularly love Misha's explanation of theory being a language, because at the end of the day, that's all it is - it's a means for us to analyze, describe and understand music (and all its building blocks). If you already have your own 'language' or framework for understanding music, that's essentially doing the same job as theory.
To add to the discussion, a lot of people think that theory is a long and restricting set of rules and prescriptions, which it really isn't (and perhaps this is owing to the way theory is often taught). That's probably what feeds into the myth that learning theory limits your creativity. As a composer, I wouldn't say my knowledge of theory gets in the way of my creativity at all, it just gives me the tools I need to understand and describe it. Half the time I'm not even drawing upon my theory knowledge when composing. I use my ear to find what sounds good to me, and then I use theory to understand why it sounds good afterwards. I suspect it isn't a necessary component in my creative process because if I didn't know theory, I'd be very much like Misha in having my own 'language' to help me understand what I do musically.
Great video! :)
Yeah, I feel theory is more of a medium in which to express what i'm thinking rather than rules i have to follow. You should think purpose first
Until tonight, I was firmly in the "you need to learn theory and read music to understand what you're doing" camp. And then this video came along. Even before he suggested we go and listen to Periphery I was starting to come around. Then I paused the video and listened to Periphery's top 6 tracks on spotify. Someone over there understands time signatures in an advanced way, but I now fully agree with Cornell here. Its not a genre I listen to, but holy shit can they hit. Thanks for the rec, Charles!
Edit, I'll also say that as a tap dancer, I think that counting and the rhythmic side of music theory is super important, but I dont teach how to write it in notation. I just want my tap dancers to be able to count a 12 bar blues, and count the rhythm they make.
Thank you for this video Charles! I once had a discussion with someone who understood music theory but didn’t know how to play an instrument denounce my opinion on music, despite me playing the piano for 17 years and being self taught the whole way. The ability to hear and play songs is extremely valuable and fun, I don’t understand much music theory but I love playing songs and putting smiles on people’s faces.
Commenting because a comment bot stole this and got a heart.
@@blazikenn5128 thank you!
This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from my grandma, "I can read music.. but I don't let it stop me." 😉
That's some wisdom there!
I’ve said this once, and I’ll say it again. I always compose by ear first; plinking around on the piano while recording the audio into Logic through MIDI until I find an idea I like. But throughout my process as a composer, music theory is an afterthought to me. It comes in when I now need to refine those ideas and use orchestration techniques to get the sound I hear in my head to a format that other musicians can read easily.
I have always had a strong ear having been in choir all throughout school, and my mother being a music teacher while my dad sings in barbershop. I could hear pieces and play them on the piano without knowing the theory behind it, but once I have explored the theory behind it, it brings a satisfaction and new level of appreciation to the music.
Music doesn't come from theory, the theory is derived from what sounds good, the music.
videos like this are so powerful because there’s a pressure on young musicians to learn theory and understand things well before creating, and while that can be useful it can also be harmful and get in the way of the music! thank you for making this :)
As far as the music theory part of this video goes, I think it depends on how you define music theory. To an extent, if you know what hand positions on a guitar sound good together you know at least a little bit of music theory. In that sense, none of the musicians you mentioned "didn't know theory." They still did to some extent.
Of course we shouldn't give people crap for not knowing theory, but we also shouldn't go the other way and discourage people from learning it, which I feel is what we're doing by saying "you don't need to learn theory."
Instead say something more inviting to theory like "theory is just describing what sounds good," "it's not just sheet music," or "it's simpler than you think!" - something that asks them to learn more and interact with other musicians who already know theory without denying the usefulness of more knowledge.
I usually think of music being the language, theory is the lexicon and grammar, and sheet music is the script. Like any English dictionary, the language is defined by the sounds and the meaning they impart, and the rest is just a way to describe and convey it.
I like the way you use language as an example. Grammar is important but communicating effectively is a different story.
One of the things you said that was really encouraging to a musician self-taught in drums/keys like me is in your video about the Charlie Brown Christmas Album, talking about Vince Guaraldi, and after talking about Guaraldi's thoughts on his own skill level, you concluded:
"you can hear this is a person who understands how to very effectively play within their own ability level. Vince didn't have the technique of an Oscar Peterson, he maybe didn't have the harmonic fluence of a Bill Evans, but he played beautiful lines to navigate his own compositions and whatever tune he was playing at the moment."
Ever since, whenever I practice improvising in any tune or jazz standard, I think about that and how I only need to play well within my own ability level; it doesn't need to sound technically superb to be melodious and good. And that's ultimately contributed to me being satisfied with the pace I'm going and the level I'm at.
I feel like it’s important to learn and practice in a way you genuinely enjoy doing it. If you like what you’re doing, you’ll spend more time on it and probably get better I think. Personally, I love improvising, writing and I like learning music theory and applying it to what I do. Meanwhile I don’t have fun reading sheet music and learning songs, even if it would make me better. I don’t find it productive to ruin something I like because I think I need to do it a certain way.
Really loving this video. I think the best music is written when you're not thinking bout it and you let it come from a feeling. :)
So I've been a musician for almost 30 years. I just learned some theory last year. I survived on noodling and ear training. Before last year I couldn't explain why I could play all over the fretboard and how it's all connected or even what I'm playing. Whenever band mates would ask me what chord I'm playing I'll say "oh it's C-something" LOL Throughout the years my ear got used to hearing different chord progressions and somehow I can resolve it and go to the next chord/note while improvising. I have gotten gigs with bands and recording in studios but I never used any theory at all. But now that I'm learning it, thanks to being bored because of the pandemic, it's actually nice that I can actually explain and understand what I am doing now. I still can't read sheet music though lol
Learning music theory basics isn’t hard and can be enjoyable. Just watching RUclips videos from people like our boi Charles is one of the best ways to learn, and is entertaining. Just practicing it every now and then is enough to progress as well!
This is so refreshing to hear someone that knows the theory to put it in perspective. When I started writing microtonal music I knew nothing about it, but I was like a kid in a candy shop just trying everything until something worked. Especially with microtonal music, which has very vague theory and conflicting symbols and language, I found myself completely free to just experiment and make something that I thought sounded good to me. I can't articulate it like you can but throwing conventional theory out the window has opened my ears to brand new sounds and that's all I care about. Thanks Charles!
How do you develop a "strong" musical ear? Because being able to associate a certain pitch to a note doesnt help you telling the difference between "good" and "bad" writing does it?
Edit: please upvote this comment I really want this to be answered ^^
Course question: My partner, who learned piano traditionally and reads music, says I have a very good ear for finding keys and learning music I hear. I've done this on violin and piano but the piano is more accessible to me these days but I wouldn't say I know how to play piano. Would your class help me learn how to play piano and learn in a visual way so I can effectively use it as a tool to learn music how I typically do? I'm 34, a singer and can't read music efficiently. I loved folk music when I played violin which lends itself a lot to learning by ear. But could I eventually learn how to play jazz this way and with your course, at least to start? Thank you for this video and all of them, sometimes they are just out of reach for my understanding but they are incredibly interesting all the same.
Great question! It sounds like you have some music background and that you play other instruments, at least violin? The Intro to Piano course is best for people who haven't done ANY piano and maybe very little to no music on any other instruments either. Here's basically how I would explain it: If you haven't ever really studied music on any instrument at all and don't know any theory or how to read notes, you'll get a TON out of the course! If you HAVE played music to any significant extent on another instrument and/or if you know the basics of some theory and reading music, you'll get a ton out of it specifically as it applies to learning to PLAY the piano, but you may find some of the beginner theory to be review, rather than new information. For the near future, we're actually working on an entire course- "Piano for Non-Pianists" aimed at helping people who already know some music tackle the physical/technical side of learning piano.
I think of it like storytelling. You absolutely don't need to be able to read, or have any understanding of what a three-act structure is -- you can still tell an engaging story just through practice and observation.
Learning the theory and reading stories will allow for a new level of depth and context, but definitely not a mandatory step 1.
Hey, I just listened to your album for the first time and it's absolutely amazing! Seriously, it blew me away. Thanks for all the great work you do
I failed out of music college after failing theory... Twice. It took me a long time after that to find my way back to loving playing but now I know in it really doesn't matter
Is theory hard?
I've been self teaching myself to make music for something like 12 years, and this video is like a giant breath of fresh air dude. The most I know how to do read sheet music cause of middle school band, and reading bass always is a problem for me cause I only learned treble. But everything else, from like the name of chords, modes, all that is always alien to me, even though I watch these videos it just doesnt stick. I simply know what sounds good to me. and generally all my music either sounds sad or serious lol but it's how I make music. My music isnt perfect, I'm still learning, and I dont doubt that if I knew theory I could problem solve more efficiently... it's just tldr its really a relief to hear these kinds of videos
I learned sheet music playing piano, did ABRSM music theory exams around the same time as doing their piano exams, up to grade 5. But I didn't use theory for anything, and didn't play other music aside from exam pieces on the piano, so I quit lessons. A year after doing grade 5 theory (so about 7 years ago), I jumped to grade 8 euphonium (having done grade 5 euph about 4 years before) and grade 5 trombone (either side of the examiners' break).
I've been playing in bands on various brass instruments for the last 11 years, and the experience of playing in bands (especially big band, and getting used to playing brass band stuff in treble clef in Bb/Eb then going to big band and concert band and playing lower brass all in bass clef in C, or transposing F horn parts while playing them on an Eb tenor horn) has been a much greater help to my playing and understanding than going through the ABRSM music theory books.
It is great that so many music educators are talking about using your ear. I'm fifty and have been playing music since age 4 or so. It was always classical or somethings like. Sure, some told me to "listen" to music, but it was more important that I learn sheet music and theory. It was as if "if you put your finger here and there in the right sequences, then you will make the sounds that are expected." If you did it right, you matched the sounds of the piece you were trying to learn. Your ear solves the problem automatically. I don't regret learning how to read music or theory. I regret that I used for so long as the guidance on where to put my fingers, and didn't use my ear instead.
Now I have both, though my ear isn't as good as I wished. When I listen to simple music I can almost see the sheet music in real time. When I try to play music, I travel in time. Because I do a lot of "cover" work, I transcribe a ton. I find myself using sheet music or tabs much less often. They are great starting points. My ear tells me the difference, and then I write out the notation. I only use sheet music as a reference in case I get lost at a gig, not as what decides I should perform.
As someone who started learning sheet music at a young age, I wish someone told me as a kid that ear training is just as important as reading the music.
Your video lessons are much more helpful than offline lessons. 😄
You add a feel in piano learning!
I don't know a thing about music and can't play a single instrument, but your video explanation + conversation with your guest was done in a crystal clear way. Thank you for this fantastic educational video.
I love your friendship with Misha, it's just so unexpected given your respective genres but so cool and wholesome too.
This video comes at the perfect time for me, cause I want to study Audio and Music Production. What you said is incredibly helpful to me and Im sure many others. Thanks
3:55 thought you were ringin Chet Baker for a second
I learned by ear 👂🏽 then learned what I was doing with Music Theory 🎼 . But it only allowed me to add a name to what I was doing naturally 🤓. It did opened me up to using jazz scales 💃 and learn cool progressions. But at some point an artist manifest artistic maturity and the thing that matters is music moving us profoundly 💗
I love how you used Jeux D'eau as the sheet music in the thumbnail of the video - I'm currently working on learning it and man that passage is so painful lol. Great video!
I recently worked on that piece too. I feel your pain. Stay strong my friend!
I love this video! I joined my collegiate acappella group with barely any theory experience, but eventually I became our lead arranger after spending tons of time doing things by intuition. I picked up theory along the way, which helped tons, but I didn't NEED it to get started!
I really needed to hear what you said at 15:37 I’ve felt like my skills have been at a deficient because I create these fabricated barriers. But it is important to follow my ears above all. Thank you.
I learned guitar by ear and occassional tabs for reference (which I would often correct). Either way, I just do it for fun, for myself, so I don't feel too inclined to learn music in-depth, but I do enjoy watching your videos about music theory, because the concepts are so interesting.
Great video Charles, but I think you overlooked one of the biggest common denominators when it came to people who didn't learn sheet music/theory: They play guitar. I started out on trumpet and then I learned piano. I am very familiar with the idea of sheet music, but when I learned guitar, I didn't use sheet music to learn it. Maybe it's just because it's harder on it (there's 5 different ways to play middle C), but also the tradition around guitar just doesn't place much value on sheet music. Learning the minor pentatonic scale and power chords is honestly enough to be able to bullshit your way through a lot of rock music, at least when you're starting out
Thanks Charles. This has been a challenge fore for years. I play by ear I always have, even in lesson, which is sometimes a crutch or an excuse to not challenge my self. . . But it's also how I learn best. Thanks!
The sheet music shown at 1:03 and 1:35 is of Chopin's Etude Op.10 No.11 which is a relatively easy etude to play and learn.
The music shown at 1:47 is Scarbo from Gaspard de la Nuit by Ravel with an absolutely disgusting engraving. This piece is a monster to play and learn.
As a drummer, I'd love it if you did a video on metric modulation and odd groupings within 4/4
There's also the diminished chord who's incredibly helpful in jazz or other stuff, you use that chord to go anywhere you want to go, it's a sort of platform and from there you choose the direction (a scale... And other stuff)
Love this conversation. Your ear is by far the most important. But for sure it’s helpful to learn scales and chords, and even how to understand chord progressions like 2 5 1. But if you don’t know the numbers and still can play d minor G dom7 C Major 7 it’s good enough to function.
I'm in the very early stages of the beginner course at Cornell Music Academy. I haven't had a lot of free time but I'm dying to write my own songs and I've never been good at playing any instruments. I've got chronic pain that makes my hands and arms hurt while trying to play the piano, even with a relaxed stance. Whether or not I reach a point where I can physically play piano, I hope to at least learn enough theory so I can use FL studio or something to write my own stuff (but playing an instrument live would be a plus).
Glad I saw this, I was low on motivation and it got me excited again. Wish me luck!
The music / language comparison really makes sense here. You can learn how to speak in a language and never really understand the grammatical rules of that language, you will express those rules tacitly but you may not be able to articulate what it means or even write them down but you can still communicate. Music is like this. You can hang around musicians and immerse yourself in the culture of music and develop a way to communicate musically and learn musical “slang” or shorthand without ever learning how to articulate this in abstract theoretical sense. This is how it is for me. I can communicate musically but I don’t know how to write or read but from listening to complex music I tacitly express those concepts through being absorbed in it
This video was posted just in time, I was filling really frustrated for playing around with the chords and melody of the piece instead of following exactly what is written on the sheet music... thanks now I feel better...
My music professor always said that theory by itself is boring, what’s ideal is practice before theory. Exposing yourself to music and exploring that FIRST before learning theory is ideal because yeah it makes sense, you’re exposing yourself to music (like how I exposed myself in choir singing, and performing in musicals) then learning theory to explain what you just did and further what you’re doing really helps in understanding better and takes away the intimidation that some usually feel when taking the daunting task of learning sheet music and theory because you have experiences to relate the lessons to. That’s what I did and man, that was phenomenal advice because it boosted my development as a musician and composer to lightspeed.
I find that I’m both by ear and by theory. When I’m composing a piece of music, and the deadline’s so far away that I can take my time with my piece, I use my ear, I choose what feels good and sounds good, but theory works in the background to help me solve areas when I struggle or need something fancy to get from one place or another. However, when the deadline is close, and I need to write a piece of music in a short time, I go on autopilot where theory is taking the wheel and my ear’s in the background giving artistic advice. Heck, in pieces that I take my time with, there’s a point when the whole piece is fleshed out in my mind, and all I need is to finish the piece, and just polish the piece, autopilot mode takes over, theory takes the wheel while my ear is in the background supervising.
I didn't begin to write and read sheet music until like 10yrs into music. At the time of learning, I myself didn't feel it was important and was happy with what I was doing. Then I got really into wanting to learn it (as a composer and someone who has to distribute sheet music, this is a very important role) and so I began to. Now I am a music theory nerd and I absolutely love music theory. I'd say that yes it is not a must have in many cases, but it's just something that is really nice to have and to also know exactly what you're doing.
This video is extremely validating for someone like myself, who felt like I was listening to myself explain my own process when Misha spoke of his.
6:40 This moment happens a lot with visual artists too. It's like you're training yourself to perform in only a specific language (visually, musically, etc), so it makes sense that you only know the words related to performance in that language.
Thanks for the encouragement! I’m trying to learn guitar, but I’ve had so many doubts since I’ve never been able to play an instrument before and know nothing about music theory.
The big thing about guitar in terms of theory is that there are so many chord and tab charts that it’s not at all necessary to sit down and study Beethoven to play Green Day. Sure, figuring out fingerings for minor, major, and 7th chords will absolutely help you, but even then, once you learn one chord shape, you’ve learned 12 chords! Best thing to do is just learn the music you love, starting at the easy side and moving up, and you’ll be integrating those licks elsewhere in no time! :)
Thank you for posting this, it's really helpful
My grandma was a fairly popular classical piano teacher in my area. She went to college for music, learned music theory, was also good at math and all that (yes I just humble- bragged my gma, she's pretty awesome). She tried to teach it to me, but I couldn't grasp it. When Misha started explaining how music works for him, it hit me so hard. That's how I feel, it's not something I can learn through theory. It's like the architect mind vs Painter mind. Both are creative minds- one through order, and one through chaos- and they both make art.
Stepping into a cozy cafe with a beautiful view and drinking coffee and chatting with friends is great
I began playing the Hammond B3 over 50 years ago and I have thought this from day one. My classical training was extremely useful but I tried not to cling to it. Music must be felt. Deeply felt. Theory and training are just tool to make the expression process easier and smoother, in my opinion.
I relate to Misha a lot. What he said about finding it hard to shift from the non-theory way of learning to theory way of learning is so true. I was in piano lessons for a year from age 8 to 9 and I remember feeling frustrated with learning theory because I had already developed to learn music by hearing it and just going from there. I've also been to guitar and bass lessons when I was younger and those were really helpful for my music learning. I still can't really read sheet music but that hasn't stopped me from enjoying playing and composing music. Playing guitar and bass are just hobbies for me and I don't take playing very seriously but I still enjoy playing a lot. What I've found to be beneficial for people like myself is more so understanding rhythm rather than sheet music. Understanding rhythm and the feel of music is really where it's at as said in the video.
Great video! This is pretty much exactly what I tell people about theory, using your ears and learning your instument well enough so you can get what's in your head to come out your fingers. 🙂
Photography is similar; don't let the rules of composition and colour theory dictate how you shoot a scene, shoot how you feel it.
Adults always think the rules are a shortcut to learning things, I think you're better off learning like a child, conducting experiments and understanding how things work.
The point made by this video is definitely valid, but speaking from experience as a pianist, learning to read sheet music and especially learning to sight read has opened up a whole world of music for me to play, so I do think sheet music has tremendous value, and music theory is really good to know if you're a songwriter/composer as it just gives you more tools in your toolkit. But you are right, you don't need music theory at least starting out and it should not be a barrier to entry for people interested in music.
For some people, reading sheet music, even after studying for decades, is more laborious and error-prone than learning a piece of music by ear. I guess it depends on how complex a piece it is. I'm glad it helped you!
I did Grade 8 practical piano and Grade 6 Theory but I struggle with playing by ear like improvising, it doesn't come naturally to me as I need sheet music in order to play. So now im processing all the pop songs chords and trying to practise remembering the chords but I really admire pianists like yrself that can play freely without music
Agreed on all accounts. Awesome to see Misha from Periphery in this video!
God bless you man, all round genuine and truly heart-felt content. Thanks a ton for everything.
I am really grateful that you made this video because I’ve been trying to make my music, and, although I can read sheet music, I don’t have much knowledge on music theory and it was making me doubt myself. I think I’ll give composing another try! Thanks Charles! :D
I love the conversation aspect of this video. Great idea for a vid and great execution
Thank you for this. I had theory drilled into me and it started messing with my head because I could only focus on the technical aspect and it made music less fun and less about feeling.
What you and Misha talked about is EXACTLY what I do. I have a degree in music. I took years of theory. I like looking into it.
When I write? I ignore it. I just mess with sounds and noises. Later I might use some of my knowledge I put it together in a different way. But the creating of the main ideas is almost always messing around.
Theory is just a language and a tool, it is not a ruleset.
I still highly recommend it to any musician, especially if you work by ear. It makes your ear training speed incredibly fast.
Thank you so much for saying this. I've always loved music, and been really good at playing by ear, but no matter how hard I tried, I could never figure out how to sightread. Specifically, it was sight reading the rhythms that I could never manage--sight reading pitch isn't a problem for me. Everyone always told me that I just wasn't trying hard enough, and that anyone who had as good of an ear as me should be able to learn it if I just tried harder. But in college, I took a formal music class (as opposed to lessons in playing instruments--my main instrument being the flute),and I ended up getting a D in the class because, despite getting extra tutoring from the instructor and spending hours trying to learn, I just couldn't figure out how to sightread. And I also figured out WHY I can't sight read. Turns out, sight-reading ability relies heavily on working memory and mental processing speed--both of which I am impaired in due to my rather profound ADD/ADHD (I took a weschler test in middle school so I know for a fact that my working memory and processing speed are lower than average, despite an above average score overall). I never took another music class again, and lately, when I've tried to join casual ensembles at the University where I'm pursuing my phd in math, I've encountered so much judgement for not being able to sightread or count rhythms, even though I'm able to play the rhythms just as well using my ear. Heck, I once had my chamber ensemble teacher tell me that you can't possibly play a clave rhythm without western-style sight-reading and counting--clave rhythms originate from the traditional music of sub-saharan africa, which, despite producing some of the world's most rhythmically complex music, famously does not use notation at all! It's just so frustrating. I love music, but the music community--especially music academia--have hurt me deeply, and made me feel worthless because of something that, it turns out, isn't even my fault.
I agree, having the internal intuition (and confidence) to guide you in laying down a sound you have in your head, and then turning that into a song, is probably more important than knowing all the deep theory. That said, I have fun taking a recent pop song and finding the chord structure, figuring out the key and chord progression, if there are chords outside the key etc. This is way easy on most radio songs, but that be about it.
Music theory is a construct developed to understand the sounds that we all naturally interpret as satisfying. If we already know what sounds good, then you dont NEED to know why
I’ve been complimented numerous times and asked to play drums with friends/when jamming with someone new. I went to drum lessons once a week for just about a year, only having learned to understand tabs, not really sheet music, definitely more by ear. From there, I have never went back to reading or knowing theory for the drums yet I can play by ear a very healthy amount and can “impersonate” SO many different genres and sounds.
I’d say, the only difficult thing is not learning a proper technique to use that to at least make it easier/more effective to play the things you want. I have certainly developed many “aloppy habits” over the years that I wish I didn’t, but I now believe will be harder to undo than if I had learned them the first time.
My father was a pianist/keys player, self taught, absolutely a pleasure to play with according to everyone that had ever played with him. You definitely can develop such an intuitive and interesting way of understanding and speaking this musical language if you play by ear!
Sweet vidjea, Charles 🎶
You sound like my father. He is a fantastic drummer, but can’t read tabs or sheet music. I help him out sometimes with that.
Wow, what Misha said about "being more comfortable in that language" really resonates with me. I have grown up in music but, due to a combination of lack of discipline, ADHD, and just lack of time, I never really fully developed a musical language, or a strong interest in a specific style. I just "like what sounds good", and my tastes have expanded as I expose myself to more music, and actively worked to be less elitist and more healthy about what I consider "good" and "bad" music.
So, I'm actually learning theory as best I can to develop my own language, and effectively communicate the nameless ideas I have in my head. It grounds these fleeting ideas I have in my head, allowing them to more effectively stay when I think of them, and that allows me to then actually do the things I set out to do. It helps me transcribe music to create lead sheets for the people I play with and am in charge of. It helps me to put a target in front of me I can use to improve. I work to teach the concepts I know to those I work with, so that we can share a common language, and so we can avoid wasting time because none of us are actually experienced and knowledgable enough yet to just communicate to each other in our own, raw, languages.
And while I would never force anybody to learn music theory because they have to, to me, it has become a crucial grounding devices that I would say is something everybody who doesn't know anything about music should definitely try to learn. Anybody can make great music without music theory, but music theory is an excellent way to make your ideas take form if actually progressing and creating has otherwise been a difficulty.
Just a side thought … I would love to hear you tackle Ravel, particularly ‘Gaspard de la Nuit’. I think you would be incredible.
I think a couple definitions can help here. "Music theory" can mean several different things.
1. It is often used to mean "19th century Western European harmony rules." In this sense, yeah most popular/jazz musicians don't (shouldn't?) bother with it.
2. As an academic discipline, music theory (generally) seeks to answer two questions: how does one write in the style of [genre or composer]? and why is this piece of music effective?
3. Music theory can then also refer to the language we use to describe the results of number 2.
In a broad sense, if your music sounds anything like anybody else's music, you're using music theory - the principles and patterns your ears have picked up from listening to music your whole life. It may not be 19th Century W. European Harmony music theory, and you may not have the language to describe it, but you're following conventions that could be (and likely have been) described in a music theory.
Also, as a composer, I rely heavily on my ears of course, but I love learning music theory/ies (in an academic, bookish way) because it adds tools to my tool kit. I can write with 19th c. harmony rules, or I can try Palestrina style counterpoint, or build my music using ideas from Persichetti's book on Twentieth Century Harmony. Learning music theory (academically) is one way to expand my creative horizons.
The thumbnail looked like Jeux D’Eau by Ravel
I kind of found out that some people that learned how to play music just by learning how to play notes, actually had no idea what they were doing after years of practise. Their musicality was not at all triggered to develop learning through this method. They learned, that the music only sounded good, when playing axactly what the sheet showed, without questioning why it sounded the way it did. This truly shocked me sometimes, knowing that some of them taught music to other people, not knowing relationships between notes, scales, etcetera. I myself started off learning a lot by ear, without the theory. 20 years later, I finally started learning theory, when it klicked. I'm definitely not at the level I want to be at, but I do understand a lot more and am actually able to explain others why something works or not. And even though they themselves sometimes don't know theory, they do get it through logical information and axamples.
More Misha X Charles content, thank you. Great video!!
This is a wonderful video. Thank you for this balanced take! I'm glad I understand my language of music & I can learn to translate, rather than learn a whole other language again...though, it isn't a bad idea to do so 🤷🏾♂️
Love your stuff, Charles!
Here're my thought: I mostly learn music theory to broaden my choices when composing, arranging and producing... Also, knowing music theory makes you literate in the music industry - knowing at least some general aspects of music theory (e.g. notes, chords, chord extensions, modes, meters, wheel of 5ths etc.) simply helps you communicate with theoretically trained professionals in the industry, when you get to that point - transcribers, orchestrators, performers, conductors etc...
Imagine trying to explain to a classically trained pianist that you want them to go from Dorian mode in some key to a Lydian mode in some other key, using such and such modal transition IF you don't know the terms. Like using hands and signs to explain to a foreigner (where neither of your speaks the other person's language) some abstract concept...
Yeah, I did up to the British ABRSM Grade 4 on piano when I was a kid, then just messed around doing my own thing on my own time for fun for a decade, and just the other day I discovered I can play Grade 8 pieces. Score 1 for intuition!
Reading sheet music, especially for pianist/composers, gives you access to soooo much information, inspiration and education. You can just look at a page and decode masterworks from almost every great composer who came before. If you want to be a composer yourself it’s a superpower.
You can get by without it, but it can really limit you. Too many people with a good ear and who pick things up quickly skip it because they think they don’t need it, and end up years later way behind people who did the boring practice to learn it and now have quick access to so many possibilities that they don’t.
The lesson shouldn’t be you don’t need it. The lesson should be start easy while you’re young and learn it bit by bit, so you don’t end up years later being hugely deficient in a language that other people in the same business speak fluently.
This is if you’re at all serious.
I really think a lot of people need to hear this. I'm a composer who got my start just doing everything by ear because my first encounter with making music was in software that looked nothing like traditional notation. From there I eventually did learn about reading music, and did study some music theory, but for me it was always secondary, supplemental, it never replaced my earliest intuitions and what my ear told me about how music works. So, to this day, while I'm somewhat conversant in music theory and can occasionally use it for analysis and to help me solve problems, it's nowhere near the front of my mind when I'm writing, and I can still trace the origins of the kind of musical choices I like to make all the way back to when I was experimenting with music making on old computers with nothing but my ear to rely on. My whole idea of voice leading and counterpoint, for example, comes from intuitions developed from working with software where everything was recorded in single-note tracks, and then later combine, and I was later surprised to learn that a lot of people think much more in chord blocks, and have to develop their contrapuntal skills separately.
Anyway, you're rapidly becoming one of my favourite music RUclipsrs because you approach the topic with both genuine joy, and an approachability that feels very welcoming I think to people who might feel a bit intimidated by Theory RUclips.
I think Chopin etude op. 10 n. 11 is actually my favorite etude, I really appreciated seeing it mentioned here. Have you ever studied it or other Chopin etudes? I think it would be cool to hear you play some of those, and very VERY interesting to hear you talking and sharing your opinions and thoughts about those etudes viewed from a jazz perspective. They are among the most beautiful and important piano works of all time and there is a lot to talk about. If you haven't studied them or if you don't know too much about them it would be even more interesting, hearing your impression and sincere thoughts. My mind was blown when I listened to some of these for the first time. Some people may consider it sacrilegious to hear a jazz pianist talking about Chopin etudes but I think you shouldn't worry about these people; there is too little dialogue between classical and jazz worlds and I think it should be very interesting to see more of that.
If you ever are going to make such a video, please I would love to hear your opinion on op. 10 n. 1, 3, 5, 11, 12 and op 25 n. 2, 5, 7. Particularly op. 25 n.5 but honestly it would be cool with any of them.
Oh my god please do it I'm getting hyped even with just the thought of a video like this
Charles has changed my perspective on music.
Im a drummer that started learning composing, music theory and piano about half a year ago in music school. Most of the time i write stuff that i can't even explain with my current knowledge, i just trust my ears and it works, but i would love to find out what i actually did. That's why im so exited for music theory classes haha.
the piece in the thumbnail is Jeux d'Eau by Ravel in case anyone was wondering :)
when i was learning guitar as a teenager my teacher would put sheet music in front of me and then play it out - so since i wasn't really good at playing off the sheet i just tried to remember what he played and copy it (while pretending to read the notes). i always felt a little bad that i didn't try harder to get into it but at the same time that ironically helped me to develop my ear and quickly translate what i hear to my playing (or play out smth i hear in my head)
My music teacher detested me because I couldn't read sheet music. I can play by ear though. I would memorise songs and pretend to read it off the sheet. He never tried to nurture my playing by ear or encourage it. It was always theory theory theory. I wish teachers had your approach.
I was not expecting Periphery in this video and I wasn't expecting Nobuo Uematsu to get a mention either. Both incredible artists.
EARS DOWN the most important video about theory on the 'Tubes today. You brought up many good points. I think of theory as being descriptive, not prescriptive. It's about the ears!
it would be so good if i can find people who areticulate how they think of music that they can arrange and compose easily
someone who fits this description and ffrequently explains how he thinks is christiaan van hemert coming from violin background so knowing music theory on the violin but since he couldnt really use music theory on the guitar, he used his own logical way of approaching the guitar to become good at jazz solos