Why Six Critically Ill Covid-19 Patients Would Overwhelm This Texas Hospital | NYT Opinion
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- As coronavirus cases surge in Texas and other Sun Belt states, rural hospitals are enduring a uniquely painful emergency of their own, in a world away from the I.C.U.s of New York City, or even Dallas.
With just two ventilators, Rolling Plains Memorial Hospital in Sweetwater, Texas, has been terrified of Covid-19 ever since March. Sweetwater, perhaps best known as the home of the “World’s Largest Rattlesnake Roundup,” has a population of about 10,000. Even the slightest outbreak would overwhelm Rolling Plains, which sits on a major highway that carries tens of thousands of travelers a day.
Rural hospitals in America have been fighting for survival for years, mostly because of their relatively high numbers of uninsured patients. Approximately 130 rural hospitals in America have closed over the past decade, leaving millions of Americans without health care nearby. Texas has had more hospital closures than any other state. And the pandemic, by forcing providers to cancel elective procedures with high insurance reimbursement rates, has pushed many of its remaining hospitals to the brink of bankruptcy.
We spent several months with the staff of Rolling Plains as it fought off Covid-induced financial ruin before treating a single Covid patient. Then, in late April, Gov. Greg Abbott reopened the state, giving the hospital a financial lifeline, but also causing cases to spike statewide. And now, the hospital’s worst fears seemed to be coming true.
By Friday, Sweetwater’s county had 10 confirmed cases of Covid-19, with one requiring intensive care. This video Op-Ed, featuring the staff at Rolling Plains, shows how even just a few coronavirus cases can threaten a hospital, its workers’ families, and an entire rural community.
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The 3 trillion dollars from the CARES act could’ve paid every man, woman and child in the United States $1000 a month for 9 months. But instead, most of it went to the rich and wealthy corporations. Are we great yet?
Congress gave them self a 50k wage rise with it too.
You will know that you are great when you're getting sick... sick of winning, of course.
Agreed
It's a choice to live this way, we are the richest nation in the history of the world and don't provide our citizens with quality healthcare, we allow private companies to profit off the sick
@Sander de Boer Because there are too many uneducated people in the united states, not even mention trump follower are another level.
Not just the companies the uberrich families that profit. Its organized crime on a major scale.
It just shows both the lack of trust in your government and selfishness that Americans would rather pay through the nose to greedy for profit insurance companies than just pay the government to provide a nonprofit service that covers everyone. I live in the UK, the NHS is possibly the best thing our government has ever provided for the nation.
Canada has FREE healthcare we have Heath Cards with our photos on them we always keep it in our wallets or on our person.........I couldn't imagine how you Americans live without FREE HEALTHCARE....it blows my mind Us Canadians are baffled when we hear you do not have this same basic freedom and quality of life and lower stress levels
Sander de Boer I find 165 really expensive I pay $40 dollars a month for myself, my husband , and my step daughter and that includes everything dental psychology, psychiatric and eye exams and braces. My heart aches for everyone when I watching this. Also Dan I live in Canada, it’s not free you pay for it in our taxes or if you elect for it in your employer benefits package or if you go through AB blue cross but we do have Alberta health coverage for medical emergencies like hospital visits etc
controversial opinion. healthcare should be non-profit. access to affordable healthcare is a human right.
The only place where that is controversial is in America
Healthcare was nonprofit until the 80s.
I work in health and have lived in both usa and Australia. I see the benefits of universal healthcare, the problem is people dont value anything when they don't pay.
I think there should be a choice for public and private healthcare with government not meddling extensively in the latter financial-wise. The same could be said in education with public and private universities
lol this should not be controversial
Opinion doesn't mean it is fake, it means that we are seeing it from a not-necessarily objective perspective. That shouldn't immediately disqualify this. This is a real story in a real place with real people.
Thanks for pointing that out. They did identify it in the title as an opinion piece. Unlike a lot of other news outlets.
There are a fuckton of these places. Its a fact.
This just seems like journalism. Other media don’t call what is clearly opinion opinion, and they’d never do a story as objective as this.
and it is very scary, disheartening and dark times for the world. love and responsibility for citizens is the need of the hour.
@@tomare6479 Agreed. I live in Houston and have gone to Princeton to visit my family in past occasions. You'd be AMAZED at how rural Texas actually is. In between Houston and Dallas is nothing but wilderness and poor cell phone connection. Hundreds of miles of rural communities. There's only a handful of urban areas and big cities like Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Fort Worth, El Paso, Dallas etc. The other hundreds of small town names are oblivious and I couldn't point them out in the state map even if I wanted to. The majority of land in Texas is exactly like it is portrayed in this video.
The police is not a business. A fire department is not a business. A hospital is a business.. in america.
What !!!! The police is not a business!! The fire department is not a business!!
What world do you live in ? Of course they are a business a very profitable one at that !!
@@kevinwhite1309 now I can imagine arguments for calling the police department as a business, but why the fire department?
Hey ^^ I live in France and even though we have great health care in here, hospitals were also run as businesses which also prevented us to have people working in good conditions. Our misery is clearly not comparable to yours but we all suffered from the main core problem
In Germany large hospitals are manly universitys which get help frome the government anyways. But most hospitals are run by church or other Organisations even private people. But while the pandemic every hospital got paid by the government for empty beds etc.
Alexander Felke In Germany it’s highly subsidized, in a way that makes it not comparable with medicare...
It’s ridiculous that hospitals are funded by surgeries. They should be funded by the government. So glad I live in the UK.
I live in an area with similar population and hospital resources but in Canada. We shut down everything at our hospital. Our funding was not affected in this same way :( our doctors are paid largely fee for service so they took a large wage cut preparing for COVID and our government created new policies so they could be compensated, but they had already chosen to support the community.
50 years ago most of the budget of this hospital would have been covered by county property taxes. But then someone decided to cut taxes and sell off all the county hospitals to private hospital chains and the For profit hospital business boomed.
I am glad I didn’t have to wait a year for spinal decompression, unlike my friend in Canada.
Socialised health care seems to frighten many Americans but here in the UK everyone supports it because it works, it is efficient and everyone has access to treatment.
@British East India Conservative I very much is. UK just need to reform it. Other European states handle it different and it works fine.
@British East India Conservative As I stated. Reform is needed. Anyhow, why did personal leave the country? I mean, wages shouldn't be the issue.
Even more surprising is even conservatives in Britain support it!
Dear nyt, It's time to stop showing desperate doctors and patients and start asking insurance companies , local governments , national government, democrats and Republicans, why people in us paying thousands of dollars every year for medicall care and for medical insurance, but the only response we see to covid is a ridiculous instruction about " how to make face mask at home"?
@Starla Grady you lucky one - my insurance company sending me only bills :)
showing desperate doctors and patients is a way to change the healthcare system
@@bobfearnley5724 agreed. it is an integral part of the story.
Its not all on insurance
I live in Texas, in one of the major cities in particular, and there’s a strong feeling of apathy amongst a lot of the population. Then again, it could just be my side of town. I’ve had customers yell at me at my job for requesting they wear a mask.
I live in a small town in Texas. Almost nobody wears masks. Not even the workers in businesses like grocery stores or restaurants. Just looking around you would not know there was a pandemic going on.
I live in DFW and it’s very similar here. Masks are required for business in Dallas, but outside of that there are still a lot of people who act like there’s nothing going on.
I'm outside of one of the major cities and yeah, lots of people are maskless. I havent seen any yelling or anything, but still... I wonder why people decided to stop distancing.
@@MinttMeringue some people are only afraid of fire when it is actually burning them. Not before or after.
I live in semi-rural Texas, and I am always wearing a mask, but most do not.
Watching her visit her mom was heart breaking. I couldn’t imagine having a parent in a facility rn.
It’s despicable that hospitals in America have to be for-profit
Could part of the problem be that Texas refused to expand Medicaid under the ACA?
Edit: The nearest hospital to me is 45 minutes away.
In Australia there area areas that are considerably further away from hospitals than that (the population density is way too low) - but we have the Flying Doctor Service....
@@limacnaughton3352 well, we have careflite for anybody who wants to go $50,000 in debt.
@@simplethings3730 In Canada, we can get an air ambulance if medically necessary for 45$. It is the same cost for an ambulance.
i remember the republicans said they wanna open up their economy fast, like texas, because covid-19 is just like another risk we all face in our daily lives, like getting hit by a car, and people wanna work and live with this risk.....well, there u go texas... keep living with this risk in your way
The official death rate from covid19 in Texas is still paltry -- 0.0083% of its population, assuming it's 30 million. More died from heart attacks last year.
@@markusass but people infected with COVID19 cannot be at work and a good number have to be hospitalized, so how is that good for the economy? Opening the economy effectively requires that the spread of the virus is brought under control, that is how most countries elsewhere have done, but deniers like you do not see that as long as many people continue to be infected, the economy will not be in operation as it should be.
@@markusass Look a little deeper into the long term effects this illness is having on many people recovering from it. We're looking at likely permanent organ damage. Forget thinking about death--we should be terrified to even be exposed to this novel virus. We just don't know enough about it yet. There is now a rise in younger people with no medical comorbidities getting incredibly sick and ending up on multiple support machines. If they survive, they aren't just bouncing back. Many are still struggling, months later. These are formerly healthy people, now exhausted from just walking around. This pandemic is not just about death. It's about long term public health.
marius offing
That’s not how statistics work. You’re saying since it’s a low death rate it’ll be fine, but the actual death rate for the virus is closer to 5%. The general population might not be infected, but if we open businesses back up, then yes, the death rate will increase exponentially to 5%. Therefore, your proposition is flawed in the first place. There’s a reason why we account death rate for those infected not for all the population and that is because we don’t want it to spread to more people.
Secondly, the virus also causes eye, lung, and other organ damage. Even those who get it aren’t lucky. Why would you want it?
vote blue Texans - just try it! you won't be disappointed. you can always go back to red.
Maybe segue to purple to first. Then ease into blue.
This is so sad. Stay Strong and Safe everyone! And Respect the Healthcare Workers there doing the best Job!
Allie g say thanks everyone
This is clearly labeled as Opinion for a reason. It wouldn't be labeled "Opinion" if this were a credible news story.
@@MMikeP it's just a function of the free market. Rural hospitals have been struggling for years.
I live in a developing country but i'm glad we have free treatment for covid and doctors and nurses are taken care of.
I cried with the daughter. This is a nightmare.
united states is the ONLY country that practices closing of hospitals!!!! this is so unheard of everywhere else. UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE!!!!
Rural medicine is dwindling.
Too many people in Texas without insurance are making things worse.
Searched up which states joined the expanded medicaid program...
Texas has not expanded medicaid.
I wonder who the people in this video are voting for.
Universal health care MUST come eventually. It’s inevitable.
More reasons to not open until we are ready
But.........but Bonespurs says da Rona is over.
And to say that some people are pulling tantrums for having to wear a mask in a store.
And this is why universal health care is a must...
I'd really like to see another update from this community.
these are not the times to spam a new video with first. this is a time to thank everyone who is helping fight this virus! Thank you everyone!
Fritz Storp Thanks
These are difficult times that we will have to overcome, amid many problems that the global pandemic has brought us. Good luck to everyone
Hogwash. This is why a ratio of hospital beds per 1,000 population was mandated during the Truman administration. We are currently at 50% of that threshold nationally.
Our healthcare system is broken. nCOV simply obviates this failure.
I don’t understand. We are supposed to have the best healthcare system in the World, but we can’t keep rural hospitals open. Let’s go with the European model, or even Canada. They have profoundly less cases and their healthcare system is free for all citizens.
Hopefully we can get some of our money back from the police. Healthcare and education are in such bad shape.
Profit for Health in America is destroying the Health profession.
Father in Heaven, please send your Angels to watch over and protect the people in this community and all small communities who are struggling. Watch over the Hospital workers, Drs, nurses, elderly and all who are suffering. For those who do not think this is real and do not take steps to protect themselves and everyone whom they come in contact with, open their eyes, O'Lord. Please have mercy on us Lord, and destroy this virus. In your son's name, Jesus Christ, I pray. Amen. 😷 🙏❤
Dear Pam, thank you for your prayers, it is well taken by all Texans.
But please understand, America is the richest country, with the worst pain management system, not health care by any means, in the industrialized world.
As a Veteran that has lived in many countries, America is doing it wrong. We have amazing doctors, the best in the world, but our insurance system is a joke and completely controlled by lobbyists that bribe our Congress people to keep it a mess.
Big pharma is out of control, getting us addicted to their pills, which gets us back to work faster, instead of letting Doctors work to really heal our injuries.
Health insurance carriers that turn profits in the $Biilions$. Why? All they should be doing is holding our premiums, until a bill needs to be paid. It does Not take that much in profits to negotiate rates with medical providers. Medicare does all that work for them already. They just copy and paste the same amounts, but push some of payments back to us in the form of deductibles and Copays. It is ugly and awful.
Hope this helps, but it is just the tip of the iceberg, as there is so much wasted time and money in our sytem.
Best wishes and God bless us all.
In China, entire families die inside their home of covid-19 and the lone survivor by sheer fate and luck was just because he was an international student in the Uk and was preparing for exams. The pressure of exams saved his literal butt.
So tired of people acting like we have 2 choices, open everything and let everyone be at risk, or let the economy collapse. Like we don't have billionaires with more wealth than the bottom 60% combined. We either take the wealth stolen from the working class back or we see riots and blood.
So they let schools open but you cant get an elective surgery?
No one dies alone! ... GOD IS WITH US 🙏🙏🙏 ALL! ....... FAITH DEMANDS WE TRUST .... IN THE KNOWING! ...
your medical system... omg... wtf...
This is the same hospital that VICE reported on about the rattlesnake round-up that went on early in the US pandemic
Sounds kind of strange that a hospital runs off surgeries. I wonder how many of those procedures were ACTUALLY necessary.... cutting people open = $$$$ ?????
These nurses and doctors are quite possibly the most essential workers in the area, and here they are taking a 10% pay cut!? Ohhhhhh, no. Not ok. This is infuriating.
I'm in Canada I'm so sorry for you guys 60,000 per day the number is staggering. If we did the x10 to account for population difference that
would be 6000 per day in Canada yesterday we had 312. pls to my friends in the USA use a mask i have used one since March.
15k people and 2 ventilators. And if we had healthcare taken care of by the government, then their salaries wouldn’t be based on income they generate. Abbott didn’t do right by Texans
Imagine if everyone paid a little so that everyone could have access to healthcare always and a job
American,
don't complain,
make them go.
MAKE THEM ❤️
I had to talk to my grandmother through the window like that a few months ago, it's hard.
☣️really I'm scared of Coronavirus. ☣️
TaherReal_RobloxGuestWorld TaherReal
You aren't alone!
Don’t be! Vitamin D levels need to be high, and if you are even slightly sick, take zinc lozenges. Drink lots of water, exercise, and pray in your own way.
I got it. I've been sick for 10 days. Today I'm finally feeling better. It is scary.
My hometown
Sweetwater is 40 minutes away from me, I'm in Abilene. I'm sure they are keeping a close eye on our town as our cases have been going up everyday.
This aged so poorly with how bad things have gotten recently really makes you think
Although we pay a large amount of taxes in Canada but I'm just glad we have free healthcare
Bring the Navy Medical Ship back! Why not??
This is the reason why people not just in the United States should take this seriously so that small communities are not wiped out by covid. There was a small community just outside of where I live that has 40 cases and that is a lot of cases for a community of less than a 1000! 40 can turn into 400 and that is scary so take this virus seriously! For these people the 6 can turn to 60 which in turn can turn to 600!
There are no staff in that hospital. No one at the ftont desk, no one at the lab. If they get more cases they cant handle it.
Only in America can you have 73,000 new cases a day - and it costs 30-40K USD per day in an ICU and an additional 29K USD per day for a vent. in Ireland, the maximum charge for a patient is 850 euros. We have third world outcomes at Bezos sized prices
why make it sound like the 300 positive are hospitalized. nobody in the hospital and the next week 300 positives is misleading. say how many are in the hospital.
My dad's a doctor, and he's licenced to work in several states, including Texas. He said the Texas liscensure test was the easiest. Not sure if they're desperate or just have lower standards or both.
Patients in this country are charged so much money for healthcare....that money obviously is going somewhere 🤔🤔🤔
Not to health care workers for sure
This is the richest country in the world everyone living in debt, yet we also have millionaires the people with money get together get these people what they need their is no reason for this to be happening. Those who have and not doing anything beware the wrath of God will come upon you.
So are rattlesnakes on sale this week or next week ?
U.S. Mobile Hospitals are needed. Take all precautions.
I worked at the WASP Museum in Sweetwater. Last I heard, the lockdown was practically none there.
a bus accident would overwhelm them too or a small bus.
What??! Test results in 7 days???! In USA?? In India we usually have better than this. Wow!! I am so shocked!
Very good detailed reporting
To know this didn't have to happen...
Thanks, Donald
You all need drones to fly the tests to the lab
Why is it that the US has handled this so horribly compared to other counties? That’s the question to ask. Why does the richest country in the world struggles to survive this pandemic when much poorer countries have it under control?
@Speaking Truth I ask the question because people in the US, always Republicans and those on the right wing, are always making up lame excuses for why we have such high case numbers and deaths, when every other country in the world has gotten their cases down by taking intelligent action. They are so ignorant and isolated they don't even know that no other countries in the world besides Brazil and Sweden have had any trouble getting their cases down and having far better testing than the US, including very poor countries.
The US has no excuse other than incompetence of Trump and other Republican politicians (because they ignored what happened in other parts of the world in avoiding outbreaks) and of course the multitude of ignorant right wingers who openly oppose taking precautions or deny the pandemic even exists.
I am just trying to read a 2 weeks old news on New York Times and it will not let me read and wants me to pay for subscription. My reading level is going down. Everything need money in America.
Try reading the BBC.
Lamesa TX is in a same situation
Lol nice one America, making your healthcare systems into a business 😂
Good luck Sweetwater.
The real tragedy is that the GOP wanted to play politics, put people in the position of paying their bills or being safe. Hospitals... staying open, or being safe. It is a glaring example of the failure of conservative politics. The hospital staff should have 80% guarantee of wages...by the government. 100% forgiveness of capital costs(rent...machinery, supplies) via loans/grants. Then the reduced volume would be serviceable to keep critical employees afloat and these hospitals open.
we’re all f**ked here in Texas 🤷🏻♀️
It's obvious what they will do if they have too many cases come in....send them away.
Let’s try to be alarmist about people’s weight, diet and chronic diseases as a result.
Germany has health care
USA has wealth care
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽 praying for this country ...we need it
if only we could figure out a way for hospitals to make huge profits for the owners of the hospitals?
All of my good thoughts go to you today. It seems hard to find those but I have been a sick, hospitalized patient with false positive tests from the infectious disease specialist (turned out to have been probably a burst abscess from a undiagnosed, {hiding} severe Crohn's disease flare that reared its horrific head 5 YEARS after I ended up with what was originally called acid reflux disease before eventually being called a massive pelvic inflammatory infection {that ate my right fallopian tube into 3 pieces, removed my possibly ruptured and rehealed itself appendix, and 3 fistulas from the JP drain took 10 in of my ileum intestine meanwhile when I didn't have a catheter for 2 weeks post surgery, I urinated ileum matter, it oozed chunkily from the notw fistula-JP dtain site... and that time I lost a little less than half my body weight {started at 165 lbs left at 89 lbs} & I honestly never want to be asked if I have an eating disorder EVER AGAIN).
title confused me, six 3 patients?
no it's sick critically ill patients
It's sad. One tiny coronavirus is causing so much political drama... Please do not argue in the comments, or politicize SARS-CoV-2.
America
3:20 "I'll be there every day at her window until I can get my hands on her"
r/OutOfContext
lol
😂😂
😄😄
Yeah.. we’re DEFINITELY still buying into the “overflowing hospitals” meme at this point. You all did such a good job with it last time. 😆
I'm guessing you didn't watch until 8:04 did ya
When you go to the hospital with Covid symptoms you go to emergency care, don't you? You can't wait another week to see a doctor if you have breathing problems or chest pain now. So emergency care is overflowing with patients as all suspected Covid patients go there.
On the other hand, clinics and hospital sections that do elective surgery i.e. non-emergency surgery planned ahead of time are empty because they don't have anything to do with treating Covid and people somehow avoid going to the doctor's altogether during these times.
Every gone have a test. What a ly
I thought the I was a L.
People we need to deal with medical issues have to be profitable. What about connecting medicine to profit being inherently wrong does any thinking person not understand? Sad that so many will die as a result of their ignorant, uninformed votes. Medicare for all is THE solution, learn and vote.
Will the Hypocritical New York Times Change Its Name?
Jeffrey Lord
June 27th, 2020 4:00 PM
The irony is so thick it would take a chain saw to cut it.
Here is the headline from this New York Times editorial on May 23rd. "Why Does the U.S. Military Celebrate White Supremacy? It is time to rename bases for American heroes - not racist traitors."
The editorial - not an Op-Ed from a non-Times person but from the paper’s own Editorial Board - says this, bold print for emphasis supplied:
“This same toxic legacy (of white supremacy) clings to the 10 United States military installations across the South that were named for Confederate Army officers during the first half of the 20th century. Apologists often describe the names as a necessary gesture of reconciliation in the wake of the Civil War. In truth, the namings reflect a federal embrace of white supremacy that found its most poisonous expression in military installations where black servicemen were deliberately placed under the command of white Southerners - who were said to better “understand” Negroes - and confined to substandard housing, segregated transportation systems and even “colored only” seating in movie houses.”
…The federal government embraced pillars of the white supremacist movement when it named military bases in the South.
….Military installations that celebrate white supremacist traitors have loomed steadily larger in the civic landscape since the country began closing smaller bases and consolidating its forces on larger ones. Bases named for men who sought to destroy the Union in the name of racial injustice are an insult to the ideals servicemen and women are sworn to uphold - and an embarrassing artifact of the time when the military itself embraced anti-American values. It is long past time for those bases to be renamed.”
Got all that? Military bases named for racists have got to go. Their names must be changed.
Well now.
Tell me again, what is the name of this newspaper? If you said The New York Times you would be blindingly correct. Now move over to this Daily Caller story from 2017 after the first statue-removing skirmish erupted in Charlottesville. The headline: "New York Is Named After A Horrendous Slave Trader."
The DC reported this of the man for whom “New York” was named:
“The Duke of York, who later became King James II of England (and James VII of Scotland), created Britain’s greatest slave empire known as the Royal African Company, which transported between 90,000 and 100,000 African slaves to the Caribbean and American colonies between 1672 and 1689.”
In other words, The New York Times - and everything bearing the name “New York” - from the state to the city to any and every institution (the New York Yankees!) in the state and city and anywhere else - is named after one of the most notorious slave traders in world history.
So, to use the language from that Times editorial headline? "Why Does The New York Times Celebrate White Supremacy?"
Using the standards of The Times? The naming of the paper for the slave-trading racist who was the Duke of York must surely reflect the newspaper’s embrace of white supremacy.
So the obvious. Will The New York Times - demanding as they do that military bases named for white supremacists be re-named - change its own name?
Perhaps it should just ‘fess up to the paper’s complicity in honoring a slave trader by renaming itself “The Slave Trader Times?”
Ya can’t make it up.
1:48 West Sandwich, mhhh westly delicious~
Wow .... and to think ANYONE IN AUSTRALIA... can get a 48 hr response back from their test... umm so youre saying AUSTRALIA is better than the USA? BBWHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
Not sure why Dallas is mentioned in the video description. This town is nowhere near it.
It’s because they are comparing this small rural hospital to large better equipped hospitals in urban areas such as nyc or Dallas
For once I'm glad to live in Waco and not somewhere deep in the country. I had never thought of how much COVID-19 would affect the really small towns!
2 vents? I'm sure it can't be too hard to rent some
Where's that money coming from? It's a rural town. There aren't enough people living there in the first place to pay the hospital the money to buy/rent more equipment.
@@vivida7160 Ok
Let me guess you are running out of money for tanning machines?
Well, Since this was clearly labeled an Opinion. I'll take every word you say with a grain of salt. Thanks NYT. You used to be so good.
They really didn’t. They KNOWINGLY helped cover up the genocide in Ukraine back in the 1930s and sold Stalin as a great leader.
interesting chemtrials in the background opening up this video.Contributing to the respiratory health or detriment of all americans???
Only if china knew what to do
My my my let me guess the next mask will be made out of oil & sewer gaskets?
But they run out and vote for Trump
I know it’s horrifying to think what will happen if there’s a sudden burst of infection but remember Lord has bestowed upon you this great work and God shall walk beside you in every step that you take. Amen to that! 😇😇
New York Times New York Times stick to New York stay out of Texas first y'all had a hotspot now magically the hotspot is in Texas and Florida I wonder how this happen magically