loot Talent is just a headstart for someone to be good at something. You may have a talent but becoming a pro is all hard work, dedication, and the willingness to learn.
5:15 I cannot stress how right he is here. There’s a saying: “Competition keeps you in condition”. You might be the big fish in a little pond but that doesn’t mean much when you decide to see how good you are in the ocean. You need people who can elevate your game, in and out of fighting games. You need people who understand that you’re trying to improve and help on that!
Muffin Man Uriah Hall used to say he learned MMA from playing, Tekken in the Arcades. 😂 I wish you the best of luck! Most fighting I would do is the gaming kind.
@@usernameluis305 yeah some friends are like that. I'm lucky my friends aren't they love playing fighting games and I'm the newbie and they love seeing me have my firsts in the fgc. I just went to a smash tournament with them and it was so fun. We just practiced against each other and were having fun watching each other's matches. And laughing at each other when we got our asses kicked. I got two wins by no show actually lol
Hell yea that’s why I’m playing ranked in apex legends. I’ve felt so much progress during my time playing that game and I love it. I’m trying to get to master rank and I’m in platinum rank.
Dood, I swear you could teach a class. Like, a legit classroom on fighting games. Desks and everything. Demonstrations, inspiring speeches, lectures on the craft of fighting games. You’re a teacher at the stuff. You emanate a natural charisma that is just unmatched.
I've watched fighting games for years, but I've only tried a couple of them because they're too hard to not completely suck at. If Max did a legit educational series of videos from the ground up, I would try again 100%.
"It's true, some are born with talent and those that aren't, but no one with talent ever made it on talent alone. They overcome. Find boundaries and break them. The only way to grow is the be challenged" -Kazuma Kiryu
Narrator: "At the age of 10, he first mastered the game of hop-scotch..Little did he know, this would apply later in his life when he discovered...Street Fighter!"
I spend years perfecting my auto cad skills and this kid just come to the company and out skilled me in auto cad, boy that Stings a lot back then, now I kinda live with it
I'm a year into playing fighting games in 2022. I could even do a quarter circle motion. But just now am I starting to understand neutral and anti air and spacing. I'm really in love with fighting games. It does take a while
Not gonna lie, i got recently into fighting games a year ago and after months of progress i improved quite a lot. Because of this, it broken the barrier for me and now i wanna learn how to draw and will try to stay committed
As an exbodybuilder this is straight facts. You can hsve the best genetics in the world but if someone out eats you outtrains you and is more consistant then they will leave you in the dust
Coming at this from the perspective of an illustrator who went to art school and all that shit, talent does exist in art, at least. Some people just have an innate inclination toward art. The misconception is that the _talent_ is what makes the artist _really fucking good at what they do_ like it was just handed to them on a platter, when in reality it's lololno. Between client work I enjoy making fanart for my own fun. Games, anime, whatever. It just so happens that there's a market for that stuff in convention artist alleys, so it allows me to go to a couple conventions a year to make a little extra money on the side. Talking to people at my table brings up this subject a lot, because a lot of kids - teenagers in particular - will look at my work and say something along the lines of "I'll never be able to do _that."_ or "I wish I was that talented." and I always have to tell them to pump their brakes because I wasn't always able to produce work at the caliber I do now (and as always, there's plenty of room for me to improve), so there's no reason why they couldn't do it, too, if they really _really_ want it. I have to tell them I've been seriously working to improve my skills since I was 12. I'm 36 now. That's 24 years of constant study, four years of which was in a hard-as-nails art school. I didn't come out of the womb producing professional level work. It's been decades of back breaking work which has quite literally destroyed my body in the process _(nerve damage is not fun)_ which will affect me for the rest of my life. A speaker at my freshman orientation week at Ringling put it really well: "All of you are talented. You wouldn't _be here_ if you weren't. Our job as your teachers and mentors over the next four years is to help you hone that talent into a marketable skill." which they _absolutely_ did. Art school is what destroyed my body because it was basically four years of voluntary hell. It was _brutal._ So yes, talent _does_ exist in some areas. The mistake is assuming talent _equals_ skill when in reality, talent can _become_ a skill if you're willing to work for it. I suppose skill can also be considered talent with passion and time mixed in.
I remember the first time I actually remember when I first fought Max on SF3, I was ignorant I was pissed because people were better then me, but after like 10 years and learning with hardwork, and you putting out this video Max, I want to say thank you for what you do for the fighting game community you give people like us hope for us to be better.
Love your attitude man so much respect for your work ethic too. I've been learning Japanese for over 10 years (I live in Osaka) and I still have so much to learn but there are plenty of people who never even try. You gotta keep pushing forward its the only way!
As an illustrator who constantly hears people talking about talent, this video is exactly my point. You wanna make nice drawings? You gotta invest a lot of fucking time during years, you gotta study theory, you gotta collect references and you gotta challenge yourself. I've seen a lot of people who just went and bought a drawing tablet, downloaded some good ass softwares, got expensive pens and markers and top quality paper and then they were disappointed when their first drawing turned out not like they expected. You gotta grind.
"He lived there." You know...there's only so many things I'm willing to put that much time into. It's kind of sad to think about how some things I'll never grow because of how hard that path is. (For the record, currently working on drawing, everyday. Other things? Not so much.)
I'm drawing and playing drums. What sucks is I'm putting more work into drawing because I really want to become better while drumming is just a hobby, but I'm progressing more with my drumming. Might be because I've been doing it longer.
Yeah, not downing anyone, but I think it's nice to realize early on that you'll never be "great" at something because you realistically don't have enough time or inspiration to put into it. Anyone can be "good" at something, but landing top 500 in SFV ranked let alone a slot in Capcom Cup... it's a huge commitment!
@@LordBaktor You need to push yourself to grow. That does mean drawing more, and attempting things you haven't done before, but it isn't just that. It also means looking at what other people do. Learn their techniques. Be able to do what they do and see if you keep or discard that. Understanding what is possible helps you grow and practice helps you mature. To become great you need both.
@@LordBaktor thats got a bit to do with psychology, since drumming is a hobby you probably take it less seriously wich helps you get enjoymebt and learn faster. There a documentary by Jim Kwik about these things if you wanna check it out
Talent is definitely not a myth. There's people that take a week to learn something someone else might have needed to take a month to do. Talent won't replace practice and work but it's always there.
i tried learning to draw a few years ago with just practice, i watched tutorials for proper technique and principles etc. I didnt pursue it further because i felt like i wasnt improving fast enough and my drawing skill still sucks. Meanwhile my 12 year old niece picked up her tablet and started drawing without taking any drawing classes or anything and her art is 10 times better than anything i could draw. Yep, talent is definitely a thing.
4:30 - if someone picks up on the concept of neutral quicker than others, wouldn't you say that person has more natural ability? I feel the talent vs hard work argument has been answered a long time ago and the answer is pretty simple: talent is helpful but isn't the end-all-be-all.
@Chris Villa I still don't think so. If someone picks up the concept of neutral faster, are they both practicing the same amount are they both watching replays? Are they both put in the exact situation? Maybe player 1 is up against a guy who keeps on jumping in so he learns anti-airs faster but not neutral while player tool deals with a patient player who is good at footsies. There is no replication. Which Wraps back around to the point at 5:15
@@andrewaguero2556 And that's exactly the point that makes the argument live on... . In the case of "Hard work (alone) VS Talent+Hard work", yes someone talented wins. Most people start by using "talent" as this miracle definition of geniuses that are the best even if they don't work, then the only argument to prove wrong people who disagree is to compare a totally different scenario aka the one quoted above. There's trhee scenarios, you can't just pick whatever fit best while the talk is about a totally different situation. . "Talent (alone) VS Hard work (alone)" loses since one will stagnate while the other player progresses. "Talent (alone) VS Talent+Hard work" loses, same reasons, more visible since both had a head-start. "Talent+Hard work VS Hard work (alone)" wins since the difference is something the other don't have. . What makes a player win over another, depends on what makes them different. Talent isn't a miracle answer. In fact, the third scenario, the one you talk about, is the only one is which talent plays a significant role. . But make the amount of hard work fluctuate (which happens all the time outside of pro level because "talented" people tends to think they can have it easy) and even the other player may end up above them as learning curve goes. (usually it's balanced since rivalry encourage the talented player to get back at training)
I agree. Some people do have a natural ability to grasp the mechanics of a fighting game more than others, but the truth is anyone can "git gud" with repetition, time, and dedication.
Talent is mostly(or should be) referred to as natural ability. People function differently so some things will always come much more naturally to others while plenty also struggle with some of the most basic of things. Talent is absolutely not this "gift of the gods" sort of thing everyone in the world makes it out to be. But you also can't deny that natural talent exists, because talented people can easily work just as hard as any normal joe-schmoe could and make progress that is ultimately world's apart from what a normal person could do. Its just always been about dedication, which is something that many, including myself, struggle to keep. I for one don't have any lasting dedication, especially for fighting games. I have thousands of hours in Smash throughout the entire series yet have only improved to a barely average level after years of playing and even practicing. But I also don't want to dedicate my life to one game despite my desire to want to be better. So I simply have to live with the disheartening fact that I'll never improve beyond my current level. This is the reality that literally numerous people have to go through with fighting games, hence why competitive players will never outweigh the causals. A well known common fact but is incredibly telling all the same. Fighting games are rough and while I do commend the players out there with sheer amount of will and dedication they've put into getting better and even going pro, talent or no, many people will hit the wall for one reason or another and never even see a glimpse of even the top of the average players
Talent alone is not enough, you are considered talented in something if you maybe pick things up faster than others but you still have to work really fucking hard to be the best.
You have to really WANT to learn how to be good at something. If you're just focused on the end goal of being good and not the process of getting better and learning from your mistakes, you'll never have the motivation to actually get good. This is a great lesson, Max! Thank you!
I say this a lot on a lot of fighting game videos, but MK11 has one of the best tutorials in a fighting game I've ever played. It is divvied up and explains every mechanic thoroughly. There is no excuse not to know or understand something because the game isn't afraid to explain things to someone new to their game. Then there's other fighting games I've tried like Tekken and Dragonball FighterZ, where you get no tutorial and your only tutorial is sitting in practice mode fumbling around until you get bored. Or it treats you like you're an idiot by telling you "X X X X Y" is a combo and that is the entirety of the lesson. They don't teach you anything and if you question it or criticize it you're told you're just bad by the community and told to "git gud" or just to kill yourself. MK11 tells you what strings do what, what is safe, what isn't, what can be countered, the frame data for what's safe, not, gives you advantage, etc. If more fighting games adopted a friendlier tutorial setup that's actually, I don't know, nice and considerate to new players, instead of throwing them in the deep end and making fun of you while you drown, then maybe fighting games wouldn't be so niche. Not everyone got to grow up in the arcade playing MK2 and Street Fighter. Not everyone has been able or even wanted to play fighting games all their life, so don't belittle someone for struggling or not understanding something, when in reality the game itself should be explaining these things to newcomers better. No one wants casuals "mucking" up their games but then the games don't sell or the series dies or it takes ages for a new game to come out. People still throw a bitchfit over DBFZ having an autocombo system when it's about the most useless system ever because you won't see any pro utilizing them outside of some of some combo extensions they provide. No one is asking for your favorite fighter to be stripped of its identity for the sake of casuals. The least they could do is give proper tutorials instead of assuming everyone playing their game is SonicFox and plans on sticking with it for the rest of their life until they're good. I've noticed this is mostly a thing in Japanese fighting games, where they don't give a shit about new players. Just play and learn on your own or fuck off. This is why I dropped Tekken 7, because I had no idea what was happening, what moves did what, the inputs were too difficult, and the game couldn't be bothered to teach me anything, so I couldn't be bothered to play it. Sorry, I'm not spending 3 weeks browsing forums and RUclips videos for help. At least Soul Calibur bothered to give written tutorials you can pause and read I think whenever you want. It's a fucking novella for every character but at least it's better than nothing. I don't know what the phobia with tutorials is, unless it's just a lack of care or effort. I know no one wants to admit it, but if DBFZ didn't have the DB IP, it wouldn't have sold as well as it did, and its shortcuts and shortcomings wouldn't have been so easily brushed aside. The IP sold that game alone, and they knew that. That's why it took 3 seasons before they even bothered to try to give proper tutorials with that game, which imo is too little too late, since I doubt there are people still flocking to that game in droves like they were when it first got released, but I could be wrong. I know updates bring people back, but never for long. TL;DR - Put better tutorials in fighting games that explain mechanics better, including advice and warnings, as well as frame data, and apply the latter to every single character.
@@Kaliospectre no you wouldn’t. Because it sucks as a tutorial. It teaches everything but neutral, which is the real reason no one plays fighting games. Until a tutorial teaches you how to apply that knowledge instead of banking on getting that situation to happen for you every fg tutorial is fucking trash.
I'm not talented at fighting games at all, but I love playing them so I'm more on the hard work spectrum than the gifted side. That said while I have no natural talent, I put in training and heavy training so I can get the most out of my basics and fundamentals so I'll be the least flashy fighter in a match but I have a methodical approach to how I fight.
I know I already commented, but I freakin love the rant about playing footsies in real life. I'm a counselor and I'm probably going to use that at some point!
@@17thknight Well some of us love the challenge man, for me it's fun and exciting to constantly learn and improve. Been playing fighting games since the 90's and it's still my favorite genre.
Dude... it is this kind of talk that Max brings and his overall understanding of how life works and giving your best, even at tough times, is the kind of stuff that really makes me feel like Max is going to be the best dad ever. I already felt this way, but damn... really powerful stuff he said here.
It is not fair to say that "There is no such thing as talent". Hell, at 3:40 you explain EXACTLY what talent is: some people grasp certain things faster than others. Hard work will allow them to compensate over time, but this is EXACTLY what "Talent" is: a natural capacity to quickly develop a skill at a basic level of competence. A "headstart", not a "shortcut".
Lol, it takes a week in any fighting game to begin to learn to move. Fighting games are niche as fuck because the barrier to entry is My Everest and once you scale it you're still the worst player on Earth. It isn't worth it and it never will be. The genre is too obtuse. The very existence of the DP motion and similar dumb shit is the death of the genre
@@ooqan if it gets to the point where you can at least grasp something and move from there it should be good enough. One of the issues I have with fighting games is that a lot of things have convinced me that you cannot have fun with a game at all unless you want to be competitive. I don't give a shit about being competitive (I lose all the time to my one friend in Smash) but it makes me feel like I'm having fun wrong if I don't care about putting in tons of hours of work into a single game when I want to play a lot of different games. Skullgirls is my favorite fighting game of all time but I don't want to play it for the rest of my life. I want to play Guilty Gear and Smash and Mario Kart and Dark Souls and Persona, and throwing such a large amount into a single game makes me miss out on everything else that exists.
4:12 I feel the need to point out that, having seen some of those same programs and being a professional teacher, that most professional fighting game players are *terrible* teachers, *particularly* when their pupil is someone with no fighting game experience. Many who are at the top level of competition have forgotten what it even means to be that new to a subject and think that they are starting with basics talking about neutral, footsies, and bnb combos (see Woolie Madden's DBFZ video for beginners for an EXCELLENT example of this.) There is a concept in pedagogy called the Zone of Proximal Development that these approaches utterly fail at (look it up if curious.) All this to say: teaching something and being good at something are related skills, but not the same skill.
this is exactly what happened to me when I was trying to get better at DBFZ and was searching for forums and servers for help to see wtf I was doing wrong. People were as nice as they could be trying to explain mechanics and inputs for BnB combos and techniques, meanwhile I'm sitting here with a blank face not even comprehending half of what they're telling me, let alone being able to execute what they were treating as stuff that was stupidly easy, and when I said that I wasn't able to do certain "easy" things it sorta stopped them in their tracks. I mean I'll give them credit they tried helping me but if people are going to try and play teacher, they need to be more patient and understanding, remembering that not everyone knows fighting game terminology and not everyone has been playing since they've been able to hold a controller. You don't teach someone to drive in a Formula 1 car.
I've watched countless programming tutorials on YT, and they all still fail at proper tutorials. I don't need a history lesson, nor do I need to learn every non essential language. They just don't show you the basics of why/what/how/etc. Most of them are already experienced programmers, so they never look at how to deal with complete newcomers, and get way to tech savvy. I still haven't found anyone who knows their stuff, and can teach it properly to someone who knows nothing about programming. Maybe it's too hard, even for the smartest person in this field. I don't know. All I can do is take important bits here and there and try to figure it out for myself.
I think theres games where yes, time put in is necessary, but theres that talent Especially in shooters, its like they were made for that, and in other genres FIghting games, i feel like theres not that many talent, its pure hard work and passion
There's no shortcut for anything in life leave alone getting good at FG's!! Usually the shortcuts land you in a worse possible situation than a regular one.
Games in general have a learning curve and take time to learn and advance in. Take people that have never touched a video game, they don't intuitively know where to go in a game or what the basic controls probably are. It's after you spent years playing games that you can pick up a game and have a general idea of the controls within minutes and be powering through with ease after a short amount of time. This ease of use isn't as easy for many people that have never touched a video game. Along with that, sometimes there are mechanics that don't make sense until they eventually click after enough time played. The amount of time is different and even which mechanics will give people trouble varies between people. My advice is to consider Seth Godin's quote on practice “There’s a practice available to each of us-the practice of embracing the process of creation in service of better. The practice is not the means to the output, the practice is the output,”
The physical element argument only works to a certain extent. You absolutely cannot compete in the NBA if you are in a wheelchair, for example. While there might not be natural talent or shortcuts to greatness in certain competitive games and sports, there are some elements of luck in terms of physical, geographical, and financial limitations. Michael Jordan is the best basketball player of all time, but he also grew up in a town that had a basketball team, got seen by the right scout to go to a college with a good team, had great coaches along the way, and ended up being 6'6"
Yessssss, but you can be given a template, you still have to use it. You can't make a cake without flour but just giving someone flour, eggs, milk etc. doesn't mean they can make the cake without practice and/or instruction.
You know that being a wheelchair have nothing to do with lacking talent, right? Both players could be equaly talented, or even the disabled player could used to be the more talented back when they could walk, but the fact they can't compete anymore have nothing to do with talent in this case you mentioned...The variable here isn't talent, it's that one can run and jump while the other is stuck in a freaking wheelchair. . People really need to stop trying to make their point by using BS in which the variable have nothing to do with the subject... . Other than that, I totally agree with the Michael Jordan part, the opportunities and hard work put in largely outweight his natural tallness alone. At same talent level it's hard work and learning capabilities that are the important variables.
@@arcengal Obviously that's true. Of course it's all of that plus hard work, but it's disingenuous to say that anyone who works hard can be successful at something.
SivartAuhsoj I mean, I’m legally blind. I could work hard to be good at basket ball as a pastime activity. If I play enough, I could get real good. But I still have bad depth perception. But also, that has nothing to do with skill. But it has to do with certain traits.
You know the mentality behind talent not existing is good. Working hard gets you places and that’s a healthy mentality. But no amount of working hard will make you as good at swimming as Michael Phelps or as good at basketball as Lebron James and the same applies to games. No amount of hard work is going to make you think like Sonicfox or block like Go1. You’re not going to hit confirm like punk does unless you’re born like that. These are exceptional people and they are capable of what they do because they work hard and are talented. I feel it’s unhealthy to just right off their talent as “well they just work harder than me I could be as good as them if I wanted to but I just don’t (insert excuse here) enough.” So appreciate the talent of these great players. They don’t come around that often.
Lol i know it's been 2 years but this comment just doesn't make sense. Just convolutional on the word "talent" with examples of people that got defeated by other players too. "Amazing people must have talent, if not they would not be amazing." "Talent" is just the word people use to describe the part of the learning process that they don't understand. And it makes them feel better. That's it.
5:53 It took me years to understand and translate mechanics from one game to another. Picking up new games has become much easier and now I can identify what concepts are familiar to me and build off that. In a way, my "foundation" has expanded.
"Its an absolute myth that natural Talent exists" This just isn't true, At least not entirely. You silghtly proved why at 4:30 in the video. People are born with different brains and brain chemistry. Sure, Nobody is going to come out of their mothers womb playing Mozart but people definitely are born with a higher ability to learn how to do so at a young age. You brought up a few players physical with disabilities like Brolylegs and Wheels. Players like these legends in my eyes for being able to play at such a high level despite their physical disabilities, however (as far as I know) they still have high functioning brains. Their hard work and determination is definitely a factor and is a major reason they're so good but they also have brains that allow them to Adapt, Learn, and Overcome certain obstacles. You don't need to have high dexterity or be able to do max damage combos to do well in fighting games, But you do need is the ability to process information quickly. Reactions are one thing, but being able to take note of your opponents patterns and quickly make proper adjustments to take advantage of that requires brain power, brain power that not everyone has.
I think there is also the element of you play what you played as a kid. If you didn't play fighting games as a kid it is VERY hard to get into them later in life. When you are younger you usually only have 1-2 main games you play, and you play them, a lot. For me it was third person action styled games. I have those skills down to muscle. Put me in front of a fighting game and almost everything I know about controlling a game goes out the window. I can play enough to get through the story mode then I stop having fun. If it is not fun I have trouble to keep playing. It is like learning a language in a way. If you learn it young you can learn more later in life, if you learn it when you are older it is VERY difficult.
@@account7164 that is an excuse. If you put everything you have you can do ANYTHING. But that does mean sometimes sacrifices are necessary. Like not playing other games, or sometimes not having fun but keep playing cuz u wanna be the best
It's a myth that "Talent" exist, at least when it comes to the definition from people who use the word all the time. Talent is having better capabilities to do something at a base level, which translate into the skills learnt along the way. It's a head-start. Someone who learn to read perfectly an opponent after a round or less may be skilled to learn on the fly. Someone who get what their options are at a fast rate may simply have a better memory than someone who need to "hard-code" them options like a kid preparing for a test at school. In that sense, yes, talent exist. But "Talent" as people use it all the time is disgusting. And as an artist I hear double the amount of that utter BS about how "you succeed because you're talented, totally needed no training for that. Oh I wish I was talented and I could even try to do the same." Sounds familiar? Yeah... "Talent" as used by the masses is just an excuse to look away from the hard work and training, like if you were a freak who can make it happen by magic and bonus points for "I don't even try because I can't compete against guys like you out there". Like seriously, nobody is born a pro painter or a pro player, and not everyone have to strive for being n°1 at what they do. Using talent as an excuse to not put in word AND make the ones who did invest time in a craft feel bad? It's just disgusting... Someone without talent but who puts alot of hard work daily will always surpass a genius who work a day per year on their stuff. May take years, the odds are crushing and discouraging, but it WILL happen as long as they keep up long enough. EDIT: What's with youtube deleting spaces between paragraphs lately..? That too is somewhat disgusting xD
Natural talent is definitely a thing. You just have to hone it into sharp skill. To say it doesnt exist is pretty asinine. There are definitely people who are good at things without ever having done them and they wont be top tier but they'll be damn good for some reason. Even reaction times change how good someone will be.
This is the truest shit I have ever heard. As a young jazz musician, I learned it pretty fast, but in this way. Rather than practicing 3 hours a day, I didn’t even count. Some nights I didn’t sleep. The nights where I did, I would listen to jazz and sometimes metronomes to build my internal clock and familiarity.Some nights my friends wanted to play games or go to Friday night magic, but I said no. I spent weekends away from my family. Because of that, I was able to get into the hs jazz band (beating jrs) in 7th grade. It also pisses me off when ppl talk about gear. I literally practiced parts on my knees until they bled during lunch and whenever I was away from my (very bad) drumset. Even now, I find completely incompetent in comparison to most people I encounter. Basically, everything max said was absolutely true and carries over to other fields.
This was the EXACT thing I didn't know I needed to say TODAY, YESTERDAY AND TO REMEDY THE BLUES IVE BEEN HAVING FOR WELL OVER A MONTH NOW!! Note: blue being part of clinical depression. So I'm very grateful for this video being translatable from fighting games to LIFE IN GENERAL. It really helped my state of mind by triggering the releases in my brain!! Thanks man!! GRATITUDE APLENTY
I've been learning since MK9, my friend showed me that game and I fell in love with it. I then got every NeatherRealm Game after that, getting better and better. I tried Tekken TT2 and loved it so much, my love for Fighting Games got bigger. I'm glad you were there to support and entertain along the way. Thanks Max
Honestly, i think natural talent does exist, but there's millions of people who are naturally talented at fighting games that don't play them. The difference that 'talent' makes up is like half a percent. The difference that physical ability makes up is half a percent. But hard work and loving what you're doing is the rest... and community. "Fighting games are something so great"
I'm glad you made this video Max. I think I'm gonna come back to it whenever I feel unmotivated. Its such an honest discussion about getting good. Its not luck, its practice.
I am one of the suckiest players when it comes to Smash Bros but I try to at least get 1-2 hrs of play time before or after work with K Rool so I can burn it into my head what is a good option and what is a bad one. I don't focus on combos or anything fancy because I have to be good at fundementals before graduating to the upper tier of the game.
If you try purely to understand the game, playing a fundamental character is better, so you focus more on more.. purist concepts like neutral, spacing, even walking and stuff.
Art Golem, while you're at it, you may as well use others characters. focusing on one character is good, but if you do as you say, wich is to learn fundamentals and options, learning what other charaters can and can't do is such a good information to gain. It's so important in Fg to understand match ups, and smash bros is specially hard on it considering the size of the roster.
This shit right here spoke to me. I’m 19 and I really want to start putting the time into learning and competing at a higher level. All the small stuff keeps getting in my head the fact that I play on a pad, the fact that I’ve never gone to a tournament, the pros, etc. But at the end of the day it doesn’t matter it’s whoever loves it more and puts in the most work. Thanks dood for the inspiration!
Me being born with bad hand-eye coordination and bad reaction time that I went to school for a lot, I've tried practicing for the better part of a few months and I still just barely am able to get the most basic shit down, and it's very frustrating but it's all about continuing to try, plus this is just me getting into fighting games at 18
You have to get beat up ALOT and understand why you’re getting beat. Having a coach or a friend that is 1-2 levels above you in the game will help. They allow you to see and understand things differently. Then you have to play a ridiculous amount of hours in that one game to continually level up until you plateau. THEN YOU GOTTA PLAY SOMEONE ELSE WHO IS 1-2 LEVELS ABOVE YOUR CURRENT LEVEL 😭
You might be born with talent, but it's hard work that makes you famous and better than other talented people. Hard work is the great winner of battles.
@@SonnyBA1 Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. The thing is tho Talent will always beat only hard work when Talent works hard! If someone has talent and they bust there butt off. They will beat people who don't have that talent. Its just how it is
After starting to get into KI recently and watching a bunch of tournament footage wheels is starting to be one of my favorite players. Sadly he doesn't play any of the characters I want to learn in tournament but its just so satisfying watching someone with his kind of disability succeed and be one of the best players out there. Like even if you didn't know he had any sort of issue you'd still think that his play was super sick while watching it, then you see him and you're immediate reaction is just like "how was he doing that on screen with those limitations" and it just pushes you to keep working.
"It's an absolute myth that natural talent exists. Same thing goes for everything in life" I understand what Max is trying to say, but this has literally been scientifically proven wrong many, many times. That's literally, and I mean literally like saying "We all have the exact same central nervous system, genetic code, and epigenetic responses to environmental factors". Andy Bolton, the world record deadlifter, deadlifted 600 lbs the very first time he tried it. There are 4 year old kids that learn Mozart pieces after a month of playing. And no, I'm not talking about kids that are forced to do it. Google Emily Bear if you're skeptical. Another musical example would be perfect pitch vs. tone deaf individuals. Perfect pitch can't be learnt. It's impossible; you can only have very, very good relative pitch that's comparable. Sorry, that was just a ramble. But I'm a fitness coach and I've seen the data on this, so I have strong feelings about it (read 'The Sports Gene" by David Epstein if you're interested). That being said, I still think that working hard enough at something will most likely lead to becoming elite, but you'd better be working harder than the person with more talent. Period.
I agree. Talent and genetics are always a factor in everything one does in life. As does Luck. Saying those are myths and don't exist is naive at best and utterly foolish at worst. Talent can be ease of learning or being straight up good at something first try. If a talented person works hard to improve their talent, 8 times out of 10 they will always beat the guy who is not talented but worked his ass off to be at the same level. While the talented had to work arguably less due to natural affinity. But Max has a good point, you need to keep trying to get better and improve. Not letting yourself be discouraged by countless failures, which after a while it's very easy to become disillusioned and absolutely discouraged. The Dating scene is the **biggest** example of this. Some people are naturally attractive, and need less work to connect and get dates than others who don't, those people have to work their assess off, go through multiple rejections and have to deal with not being good enough for others multiple times. It's a straight up numbers game at that point. As is everything. Dealing with failure and moving forward is part of being human. Even when you fail when something isn't your fault and there legitimately is nothing to improve. (something very common in romance and dating, but people don't like to admit).
How about that Dr. Bruce Lipton about even DNA cells can changes (we just don't know how to "do it" directly)? I know we have some gifted skillsets, and after all we can't replace every damn cells in a day. So yeah, things take time and effort.
This video makes me think of one of my friends. He saw me playing fighting games one day, got super hyped up, went out and bought MK11 and then asked me to play with him/teach him. My god was it frustrating. He couldn’t even grasp the concept of not hitting random buttons. It actually pissed him off that he would actually have to learn how to play. I told him his mindset was basically the same as playing a shooter and just shooting in random directions and then getting mad when he doesn’t hit anyone... oh well I guess there are some people who will never get it
honestly, this goes further than just fighting games. you can apply this advice to almost anything in life. hard work truly pays off. for some it may take longer, but if you love something you will find a way.
Yeah, I agree with this sentiment heavily. It's gonna take ages and ages to get good, and even then, once you *are* good, you have to keep playing in order to stay good. I just got back into FighterZ once UI Goku came out, and I spent 95% of my time in training mode figuring out things, fighting and testing out different matchups, and I finally thought I was ready to go online. Got waxed every single match. You gotta put TIME in if you want any consistent wins at all. As for the whole "arcade stick gives you an advantage" thing - BULLSHIT. If anything, it's a hindrance if you're not used to it. Learning to use stick also takes time, and you probably won't be able to do it for all games. I learnt how to use stick in BBTAG, my main fighting game that I actually AM somewhat good at, and it made me worse at first. It takes weeks or even months to build up new muscle memory for that shit. And that's not even counting button layouts, which you'll want to keep as similar as possible. I literally can't play FighterZ due to the assist buttons being in an awkward spot with the layout I try to build muscle memory with (UMVC3) so I went back to pad and I'm getting better with that. It literally doesn't matter what you use, as long as you can use it WELL.
Talent is a myth? That is objectively false, things like high reactions, awareness, reflexes, stamina and memory are different for everybody and not everybody is born with all those traits, having a combination of all of those is basically what talent is. Talent is definitely a thing it's just depends on how far you are willing to take advantage of that talent.
That Rock Lee/Gaara fight in Naruto is basically this. For sure, hard work can eclipse gifted people who get lazy, but there’s also a point where somebody’s inherent gifts can still win out over hard work.
It’s only a select few with raw talent that’ll be able to pick something up and be good at. If you put in the time, nobody with that talent will be able to beat you at the thing you trained hard for. Talent and knowledge are two different things. While gaining knowledge you also learn new skills. Sometimes people with talent don’t want to be the best at things, so they don’t try super hard
I watched your vid titled REAL TALK: Understand How To Get Better At Fighting Games a while back and it was eye-opening for me. I loved a few fighting games over the years but I was never good enough to beat ppl multple times and never quite understood why or how to improve. Then you broke the system down so effortlessly, I almost sh*t myself at how naive I was back then. Life lessons to take away from here is a fact of life. You find something you can be truly be passionate about because, if you wont love doing it, you wont put in the time, effort and care to research and understand the ins and outs of it. You wont learn and grow at all at something if you are not deeply passionate about it enough to care.
As much as I would like for this to be true, it's not. If someone has innate talent and puts in the same amount of repeated hard work and effort they will always beat someone who puts in that effort but without the innate talent. I was a tutor for math and some of them tried a thousand times longer and harder than I ever did, but they couldn't even approach the level of math processing I could do in a minute. I can't even blame them for not trying. I cannot imagine fighting games would be an exception. That's not to say that you shouldn't work hard, of course. Talent only goes so far.
@@kodosquea1994 u yourself are creating this huge wall. Saying u can't do it cuz this or that. But anyone can make it to the top if it has what it takes. And that means hours upon hours of sometimes even not having literally any fun but just for the sake of being the best
@@kodosquea1994 You just checkmate yourself there, mate! . *If someone has innate talent and puts in the same amount of repeated hard work and effort they will always beat someone who puts in that effort but without the innate talent* . Yes, indeed, at same level of hard work someone talented beats someone who isn't. That's the point, talent is a head-start that translate into the skills you learn along the way. But that's it. . The saying of the original comment, about how hard work beats talents, is how hard work alone beats talent alone. As in someone training daily for years will reach the same level as a "genius" who work a day per year on their stuff. Can't really deny that, right? . Your exemple is someone talented who work hard, what makes them super good at what they're doing right now, but that doesn't mean they always had this level right at the start. They too had a progression curve. They too had their losses, and had to learn. . Sure, they did learn at a faster rate than random players, and practice enough to keep their level, but at this point it's their own hard work that pay off more than talent alone. Talent is good to learn faster and that's it. Once at the top, only the amount of hard work makes one be n°1 instead of top-5, because that's the variable in there that counts "at equal talent level".
@@superxdish Nope, I am speaking as someone who has made it to the top in other fields that I won't mention here. I put in a lot of hard work too, of course. But I have seen people put in a lot of hard work and fail to reach even near where I did, because they did not have the talent.
Thank you! I come from a family of FPS/GTA players and they all think that I just have some sort of natural talent towards fighting games. The reality was just that while they were on the 360 playing Ghost Recon and Call of Duty together, I was alone playing Super Street Fighter II, World Heroes, and DOA4. Hell, I even played hack and slashes like Ninja Gaiden II and Dynasty Warriors. Since I was alone, I had no excuses like "You were distracting me" or "You picked a cheap character". As soon as I ran out of the other excuses, I would cool down, go back in, and started judging my responses and trying to fix them. Its a great way to teach self-development. Its the kind of thing that helps you realize that with some things, nobody can give you a map or tell you what you did wrong. Once you realize your own faults, it opens up a lot more opportunities since things don't seem as linear or clear-cut anymore. You start to see the randomness that can happen all around you and if you don't give up, you can learn to adapt to such abrupt changes and find your own way of playing.
"Talent VS hard work: Is there shortcuts to X" In art, we say that talent is a Head-start, the only "shortcuts" are to understand early how important the fundamentals are instead of ignoring them, and of course to find the right way for you to learn instead of pushing toward a method you're not fully compatible with. There's no magic recipe of succes aside of "fail till you can make your creation acceptable". The same apply everywhere, doing nothing but trying to find shortcut will make you invest time in sub-optimal stuff at best, wasteful stuff most of the time. Sure, someone more skilled at learning on the fly will read their opponent better after a round or two, and someone with a better memory will memorize their options and the opponent's faster than someone who needs to hard-learn them ilike a kid in school. But that's it, talent alone is just a head-start, not an easy mode. Train your fundamentals, aka learning how to deal with most common situations, and you'll beat that guy with a perfect exec but who always go for "that one combo" all the time. Find your way to train and compete in an environment that make you progress rather than an oppressing one and you'll not "rage-quit or just come back once a year to the game" making progress slowly but at a steady pace. "Never use it and you'll lose it", just like learning a new language and never using it outside of classes. There's no magic recipe and once skills in previous games may transfer partially to others of the same genre, anything involving memory or muscle memory is like sports. You need to practce to stay in shape no matter how talented you are or if 20years ago you were the talk of the town. I wish I could get back in fighting games...But art is a demanding mistress, I don't play much anything nowdays because of this timesink... ^^"
But... Some people DO have quicker reaction times, are stronger, taller, more genetically prone to be muscular and this DOES give them an edge. Yes sometimes you can overtake these people by putting in 100s of thousands of hours but if they put in the same amount of practice as you they WILL beat you.
So? Is that an excuse for not putting in the time? If the 'talented' person put in as much time as you training then they deserve to beat you, they worked for it. There will always be someone better than you, even when you think that there isn't, someone will beat you, the faster people get that in their heads, the better they'll be. But that doesn't mean you can't be better than someone. If you train harder and you put more time than someone who you think has 'innate talent' but doesn't practice as much, you will surpass them, no question.
man, I have wanted to make a fighting game, (the art for it rather) for a while now, its not gonna happen anytime soon maybe never, but its videos and people like max that makes me want to ask them "can you help make a good fighting game?" from people who actually play these games all the damn time. so inspiring.
There doesn't exist any activity where you can be good without effort. Any sport, game, hobby, etc, will require commitment. Pick something you're passionate about and give in to the grind.
Pretty much, sadly its why fighting games arent more popular. If tou want to be good at COD you just need to play and acctually try for 2-3 hours a night for like 2 weeks you will be pretty good. Not a pto, but good.
@@outlaw451 Another reason is because unlike most shooters you don't have teammates to help you out in a game and if you lose you can't shift the blame onto your teammates
I played doa5lr on Xbox 360. I ran across a guy named Raiden Wulong on there. That guy was literally top ranked on there. Beat my ass into a pulp....repeeeeaaaatedly. But, I kept challenging him in a lobby and eventually became super cool with him. I respected him so much more because I began to win against him yet, he never rage quit or cancelled our matches. He just gave me pointers whenever I'd win or lose against him. Not only did I get better, we got better. And I'm thankful for making a friend over friendly competition. That's an amazing and unforgettable thing. Something that I'll forever appreciate.
Damn great quote literal have never heard it before. It so unique and clever I'm sure you thoutgh if yourself because I've never heard that one before.
Also there is several other factors like good teachers, passion, also opportunities. Its not talent vs hardwoking alone that make u successful, those other parts also play important roles.
This reminds me of when people ask me how I'm so good at art, or compliment my art by throwing their own under the bus. Like, I have been drawing since I was 2. I'm 27 now. That's a lot of time and effort put into my craft. I've put in *years* of practice and studying of the fundamentals to get where I am. It's not a natural talent I was born with. I was just lucky that I was born into a family that values and appreciates art and they let me make it into a career. But other than that, anyone can do art. It just takes practice and time.
“compliment my art by throwing their own under the bus” finally someone else is calling this shit out. god i fucking hate seeing that shit, people really don’t know how to complement others without putting themselves down anymore, ESPECIALLY with art. fuck outta here with that “i can’t even draw a circle” bullshit
Agreed. One of the best pvpers on my WoW server was a guildmate and he had use of two fi gers on his left had, 3 on his right, and had 50% head movement. Dude OWNED in the arena
100% agree with you Max. Definitely a concept that applies to everything in life and not just fighting games - something i realised a few years ago. If you want to get good at anything (be it; working out at the gym, getting good at a video game, learning a language, building a business), you have to be willing to put the work in and be super consistent. Consistency is key ladies and gentlemen 👏.
"Some people pick it up faster" ...so, talent? Ofcourse talent is a thing, everyone who ever played sports as a little kid knows that all to well, some people just had a natural affinity for a ball or a certain sport and picked it up immediately, and they couldn't have worked hard at it... because they were children! Saying talent is not a thing is a HUGE disservice to the people who work their ASS off to get great at something they dont have a natural affinity for. Now arguing that it's ALL talent, that ofcourse is just dumb, just like we've all seen people with talent, we've also seen those people just throw it away, and not work hard, and get passed by the people who DO work hard, usually the top of the top are people with talent, who ALSO work incredibly hard and have fantastic work ethics.
Max, I truly hope someone makes a docuseries about you one day because of shit like this. You have such a gift when it comes to reaching people in terms of entertaining them as well as creating content that can truly resonate with people whether that’s in terms of raw hype, bringing people in close and making them feel like it’s just the two of you, whatever the case may be in that moment, you are incredible. Shine on and much love.
I'm mostly a casual fighting gamer, but there was only one game I really fell in love with and that was Blazblue, specifically the 2nd iteration Blazblue Continuum. At first iteration I enjoyed it for the chaos and the complexity of the matches. But once the second game out, I found a character that I truly enjoyed played, Hazama. At first It was all just casual feeling and just trying to figure out the game but I lost 100% of the time. I decided to put some time into the game, as I was really bad at 2D fighting game or any fighting game, even if I have played many other games before such as Street Fighter EX Alpha, MK1 on Snes or Tekken 2/3. But when it came to the strict feeling of doing hitconfirms, combos, tactical decision, fake outs, feints etc. I was clueless. It took me 4 months of training, constant training in training mode, fighting other people after 2-4 days of constant training and timing to the inputs of that hard as balls game to play. Blisters, bleeding thumbs, using a Ps3 controller, worn out controller inputs (Which was replaced), several hours constant focus to the point where I forgot to eat or sleep, or just became nauseous and collapsed infront of the game. And this was during my University years, so it was a heavy time investment ( University went fine though, Priority 1 still). But I still wanted to become good. And after 4 months of playing nothing but this game, I finally felt like I had a grasp and started to win against other players who played this for longer. And this is where I started to love the game and I will never not love this mainline series. And I never attend proper large tournaments, I just wanted to get good at a game that I had very little knowledge about, and today I can say I am a threat to most players no matter what skill level. I played a few sidetourneys and other players that played this for years and I still will with the latest iteration Blazblue Central Fiction. It was hell for my body and my hands, but I loved what came out of it. If you love a game, you will put time into it. And once you get a grasp of the game, you will always improve and have fun while doing so.
Innate Talent does exists... you can get far and high with hard work just like most normal people do... but it is a fact that there are people who are born with innate talent to do some stuff.... like singing, art in general, good at math, etc., etc... the list could keep going... you can also be okay at any of the mentioned before and polish it with hard work and get to be great at it, just the same way you can be a genius for the same skill, be great at it and polish it even further with hard work reaching further, higher and quicker than somebody who only is a hard worker. Just to be clear I'm the type of person who believes that you can reach and achieve anything you want in life with hard work, but also I know and do believe that there are also talented individuals who are born with a predisposition to be good or "better" at some tasks just by nature... and that is how the world is even if you have a skill set where you are better than other people, it doesn't mean you will be perfect or superior just for that mater; because in most cases people that are that special are also people who lack a lot in other aspects of their whole being.
And this is why we love this man soo much, Max is capable of start a simple conversation about a fighting game and at the end give a valuable life lesson thank you Max.
I just started playing Granblue Fantasy Versus. I am very new to fighting games and it's clear to everyone online. There are so many levels to competition. It's fun:)
Max is such a great communicator. I’ve never seen him live but I’d be very interested to see if he carries this integrity and charisma into a live situation.
This exact talk I have to tell people about illustration like I had to practice so much I failed classes and didn't leave the house for months in a row but the end result speaks for itself and even still I see masters doing what I can do in their sleep it just comes down to familiarity and patience. You have to always striving for something better and sharpening whatever you do. If you can see yourself doing it forever then do it as much as you can. If it always feels like there is a prodigy better than you, it's because there is, but remember one day you'll look back and be that prodigy to someone else. in my experience real progress is only visible in hindsight. Also don't be afraid to find what you love *FIRST* and *THEN* become the best in world at that thing no matter how useless or mundane it may seem. Too often I see people just not meant for what they want not knowing or accepting what would really make them happy, just because it seems glamorous doesn't mean its for you. If you love what you do EVEN when you fail then keep failing until there is no way left to
"“Dude, sucking at sumthin’ is the first step towards being sorta good at something." -Jake the Dog
Came here just to say that :D
It's true
@@Demigod_3scrub Facts
loot Talent is just a headstart for someone to be good at something. You may have a talent but becoming a pro is all hard work, dedication, and the willingness to learn.
Damn does anyone know that beautiful background music
5:15 I cannot stress how right he is here. There’s a saying: “Competition keeps you in condition”. You might be the big fish in a little pond but that doesn’t mean much when you decide to see how good you are in the ocean. You need people who can elevate your game, in and out of fighting games. You need people who understand that you’re trying to improve and help on that!
Well spoken dude👍👍👍
I like fighting games, but I'm probably going to apply the same mentality when I fight in real life too, cuz I wanna be a ufc fighter
Muffin Man Uriah Hall used to say he learned MMA from playing, Tekken in the Arcades. 😂 I wish you the best of luck! Most fighting I would do is the gaming kind.
@@usernameluis305 yeah some friends are like that. I'm lucky my friends aren't they love playing fighting games and I'm the newbie and they love seeing me have my firsts in the fgc. I just went to a smash tournament with them and it was so fun. We just practiced against each other and were having fun watching each other's matches. And laughing at each other when we got our asses kicked. I got two wins by no show actually lol
Hell yea that’s why I’m playing ranked in apex legends. I’ve felt so much progress during my time playing that game and I love it. I’m trying to get to master rank and I’m in platinum rank.
"Talent is something you make bloom, instinct is something you polish."
All of my best quotes come from anime as well.
@@DSCInca Lol
OSE OSE OSE OSE OSE SEIJŌ
Hey Max love your vidz. Hey have you seen the trailer for power rangers battle for the grid season 3 trailer! Can you do a reaction?
we all start at level 1 gotta grind that XP
Dood, I swear you could teach a class. Like, a legit classroom on fighting games. Desks and everything. Demonstrations, inspiring speeches, lectures on the craft of fighting games. You’re a teacher at the stuff. You emanate a natural charisma that is just unmatched.
One might even say that you want him to "assist me"?
He’s gotta make a textbook!
I've watched fighting games for years, but I've only tried a couple of them because they're too hard to not completely suck at. If Max did a legit educational series of videos from the ground up, I would try again 100%.
@@Owl_Coup_Productions i see what u did
Alex M You know what? Fair point
“Talent is a pursued interest. Anything that you're willing to practice, you can do.” -Bob Ross
this, fucking this.
“Hard work beats talent when talent isn’t working hard”
Words to live by.
This kind of videos make me think
"Damn he definitely is gonna be a great dad"
This !
He's gonna raise RollbackNetcode Christiansen into a fine young Dood.
He's gonna be such a great dad. That little dood will be a pillar of whatever community he chooses to be a part.
Watch his kid hate all the games he likes lol but yeah he’ll be a good dad
@@kylenguyen7371 lmaooo this is a good one
"It's true, some are born with talent and those that aren't, but no one with talent ever made it on talent alone. They overcome. Find boundaries and break them. The only way to grow is the be challenged"
-Kazuma Kiryu
Kiryu is da SH*T!!!
Bruh...
"Footsies in Real Life: The Maximilian Dood Story" - I'd buy that autobiography.
Inside cover has an image of ScrubLord Max and a narration from his GitGud video where he defines footsies.
Facts
That would honestly be a day one buy for me, lol.
Hitting my bills with a well spaced crouching medium kick.
Facts
"There is no secret ingredient."
Just like in one of my favourite childhood movies Space Jam 'MJ's secret stuff' is just water. You gotta believe you can do it.
but what about THE SAUCE?
"it's just you"
What about the Secret Krabby Patty Formuler™?!
LargeArseBlackBear I understood that reference
There is no substitute for perseverance in this world.
I love just listening to Dood speak
Same
Yup. Same here.
Same here. He has a lot of smart and interesting things to share.
@@MrIrrieAK i agree
@asdf asdf What? You ok dude?
Well now the documentary *has* to be called "Footsies in Real Life: The Dood Story."
Narrator: "At the age of 10, he first mastered the game of hop-scotch..Little did he know, this would apply later in his life when he discovered...Street Fighter!"
I spend years perfecting my auto cad skills and this kid just come to the company and out skilled me in auto cad, boy that Stings a lot back then, now I kinda live with it
“Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn’t work hard”. Me. Chaney
I'm a year into playing fighting games in 2022. I could even do a quarter circle motion. But just now am I starting to understand neutral and anti air and spacing. I'm really in love with fighting games. It does take a while
Not gonna lie, i got recently into fighting games a year ago and after months of progress i improved quite a lot. Because of this, it broken the barrier for me and now i wanna learn how to draw and will try to stay committed
Good Job Makoto Yuki!
Haha persona XD
As an exbodybuilder this is straight facts. You can hsve the best genetics in the world but if someone out eats you outtrains you and is more consistant then they will leave you in the dust
"Talent" I think is just when people get past the beginner phase a bit faster than normal. Nothing more, nothing less.
I learned this the hard way... always first to get winstreaks and get complacent, then eventually getting stomped by people who actually live it.
Coming at this from the perspective of an illustrator who went to art school and all that shit, talent does exist in art, at least. Some people just have an innate inclination toward art. The misconception is that the _talent_ is what makes the artist _really fucking good at what they do_ like it was just handed to them on a platter, when in reality it's lololno.
Between client work I enjoy making fanart for my own fun. Games, anime, whatever. It just so happens that there's a market for that stuff in convention artist alleys, so it allows me to go to a couple conventions a year to make a little extra money on the side.
Talking to people at my table brings up this subject a lot, because a lot of kids - teenagers in particular - will look at my work and say something along the lines of "I'll never be able to do _that."_ or "I wish I was that talented." and I always have to tell them to pump their brakes because I wasn't always able to produce work at the caliber I do now (and as always, there's plenty of room for me to improve), so there's no reason why they couldn't do it, too, if they really _really_ want it.
I have to tell them I've been seriously working to improve my skills since I was 12. I'm 36 now. That's 24 years of constant study, four years of which was in a hard-as-nails art school. I didn't come out of the womb producing professional level work. It's been decades of back breaking work which has quite literally destroyed my body in the process _(nerve damage is not fun)_ which will affect me for the rest of my life.
A speaker at my freshman orientation week at Ringling put it really well: "All of you are talented. You wouldn't _be here_ if you weren't. Our job as your teachers and mentors over the next four years is to help you hone that talent into a marketable skill." which they _absolutely_ did. Art school is what destroyed my body because it was basically four years of voluntary hell. It was _brutal._
So yes, talent _does_ exist in some areas. The mistake is assuming talent _equals_ skill when in reality, talent can _become_ a skill if you're willing to work for it. I suppose skill can also be considered talent with passion and time mixed in.
I remember the first time I actually remember when I first fought Max on SF3, I was ignorant I was pissed because people were better then me, but after like 10 years and learning with hardwork, and you putting out this video Max, I want to say thank you for what you do for the fighting game community you give people like us hope for us to be better.
You’re the real one Max, you made me truly fall in love with fighting games since 2015! ❤️
Never change man! Congrats on your child this August! 🎊
Love your attitude man so much respect for your work ethic too. I've been learning Japanese for over 10 years (I live in Osaka) and I still have so much to learn but there are plenty of people who never even try. You gotta keep pushing forward its the only way!
As an illustrator who constantly hears people talking about talent, this video is exactly my point. You wanna make nice drawings? You gotta invest a lot of fucking time during years, you gotta study theory, you gotta collect references and you gotta challenge yourself. I've seen a lot of people who just went and bought a drawing tablet, downloaded some good ass softwares, got expensive pens and markers and top quality paper and then they were disappointed when their first drawing turned out not like they expected. You gotta grind.
"He lived there." You know...there's only so many things I'm willing to put that much time into. It's kind of sad to think about how some things I'll never grow because of how hard that path is. (For the record, currently working on drawing, everyday. Other things? Not so much.)
I'm drawing and playing drums. What sucks is I'm putting more work into drawing because I really want to become better while drumming is just a hobby, but I'm progressing more with my drumming. Might be because I've been doing it longer.
@@LordBaktor Can't control when the flower blossoms. Can only water it everyday
Yeah, not downing anyone, but I think it's nice to realize early on that you'll never be "great" at something because you realistically don't have enough time or inspiration to put into it. Anyone can be "good" at something, but landing top 500 in SFV ranked let alone a slot in Capcom Cup... it's a huge commitment!
@@LordBaktor You need to push yourself to grow. That does mean drawing more, and attempting things you haven't done before, but it isn't just that. It also means looking at what other people do. Learn their techniques. Be able to do what they do and see if you keep or discard that. Understanding what is possible helps you grow and practice helps you mature. To become great you need both.
@@LordBaktor thats got a bit to do with psychology, since drumming is a hobby you probably take it less seriously wich helps you get enjoymebt and learn faster. There a documentary by Jim Kwik about these things if you wanna check it out
Talent is definitely not a myth. There's people that take a week to learn something someone else might have needed to take a month to do. Talent won't replace practice and work but it's always there.
i tried learning to draw a few years ago with just practice, i watched tutorials for proper technique and principles etc. I didnt pursue it further because i felt like i wasnt improving fast enough and my drawing skill still sucks. Meanwhile my 12 year old niece picked up her tablet and started drawing without taking any drawing classes or anything and her art is 10 times better than anything i could draw. Yep, talent is definitely a thing.
4:30 - if someone picks up on the concept of neutral quicker than others, wouldn't you say that person has more natural ability? I feel the talent vs hard work argument has been answered a long time ago and the answer is pretty simple: talent is helpful but isn't the end-all-be-all.
@Chris Villa I still don't think so. If someone picks up the concept of neutral faster, are they both practicing the same amount are they both watching replays? Are they both put in the exact situation? Maybe player 1 is up against a guy who keeps on jumping in so he learns anti-airs faster but not neutral while player tool deals with a patient player who is good at footsies. There is no replication. Which Wraps back around to the point at 5:15
@@andrewaguero2556 And that's exactly the point that makes the argument live on...
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In the case of "Hard work (alone) VS Talent+Hard work", yes someone talented wins.
Most people start by using "talent" as this miracle definition of geniuses that are the best even if they don't work, then the only argument to prove wrong people who disagree is to compare a totally different scenario aka the one quoted above. There's trhee scenarios, you can't just pick whatever fit best while the talk is about a totally different situation.
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"Talent (alone) VS Hard work (alone)" loses since one will stagnate while the other player progresses.
"Talent (alone) VS Talent+Hard work" loses, same reasons, more visible since both had a head-start.
"Talent+Hard work VS Hard work (alone)" wins since the difference is something the other don't have.
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What makes a player win over another, depends on what makes them different.
Talent isn't a miracle answer. In fact, the third scenario, the one you talk about, is the only one is which talent plays a significant role.
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But make the amount of hard work fluctuate (which happens all the time outside of pro level because "talented" people tends to think they can have it easy) and even the other player may end up above them as learning curve goes. (usually it's balanced since rivalry encourage the talented player to get back at training)
I agree. Some people do have a natural ability to grasp the mechanics of a fighting game more than others, but the truth is anyone can "git gud" with repetition, time, and dedication.
Talent is mostly(or should be) referred to as natural ability. People function differently so some things will always come much more naturally to others while plenty also struggle with some of the most basic of things. Talent is absolutely not this "gift of the gods" sort of thing everyone in the world makes it out to be. But you also can't deny that natural talent exists, because talented people can easily work just as hard as any normal joe-schmoe could and make progress that is ultimately world's apart from what a normal person could do. Its just always been about dedication, which is something that many, including myself, struggle to keep. I for one don't have any lasting dedication, especially for fighting games. I have thousands of hours in Smash throughout the entire series yet have only improved to a barely average level after years of playing and even practicing. But I also don't want to dedicate my life to one game despite my desire to want to be better. So I simply have to live with the disheartening fact that I'll never improve beyond my current level. This is the reality that literally numerous people have to go through with fighting games, hence why competitive players will never outweigh the causals. A well known common fact but is incredibly telling all the same. Fighting games are rough and while I do commend the players out there with sheer amount of will and dedication they've put into getting better and even going pro, talent or no, many people will hit the wall for one reason or another and never even see a glimpse of even the top of the average players
as a pro fighting gamer, i love this post.
Talent alone is not enough, you are considered talented in something if you maybe pick things up faster than others but you still have to work really fucking hard to be the best.
You have to really WANT to learn how to be good at something. If you're just focused on the end goal of being good and not the process of getting better and learning from your mistakes, you'll never have the motivation to actually get good. This is a great lesson, Max! Thank you!
“Not everyone who works hard are rewarded, However all those who succeed have worked hard"
I say this a lot on a lot of fighting game videos, but MK11 has one of the best tutorials in a fighting game I've ever played. It is divvied up and explains every mechanic thoroughly. There is no excuse not to know or understand something because the game isn't afraid to explain things to someone new to their game. Then there's other fighting games I've tried like Tekken and Dragonball FighterZ, where you get no tutorial and your only tutorial is sitting in practice mode fumbling around until you get bored. Or it treats you like you're an idiot by telling you "X X X X Y" is a combo and that is the entirety of the lesson. They don't teach you anything and if you question it or criticize it you're told you're just bad by the community and told to "git gud" or just to kill yourself. MK11 tells you what strings do what, what is safe, what isn't, what can be countered, the frame data for what's safe, not, gives you advantage, etc. If more fighting games adopted a friendlier tutorial setup that's actually, I don't know, nice and considerate to new players, instead of throwing them in the deep end and making fun of you while you drown, then maybe fighting games wouldn't be so niche. Not everyone got to grow up in the arcade playing MK2 and Street Fighter. Not everyone has been able or even wanted to play fighting games all their life, so don't belittle someone for struggling or not understanding something, when in reality the game itself should be explaining these things to newcomers better. No one wants casuals "mucking" up their games but then the games don't sell or the series dies or it takes ages for a new game to come out. People still throw a bitchfit over DBFZ having an autocombo system when it's about the most useless system ever because you won't see any pro utilizing them outside of some of some combo extensions they provide. No one is asking for your favorite fighter to be stripped of its identity for the sake of casuals. The least they could do is give proper tutorials instead of assuming everyone playing their game is SonicFox and plans on sticking with it for the rest of their life until they're good.
I've noticed this is mostly a thing in Japanese fighting games, where they don't give a shit about new players. Just play and learn on your own or fuck off. This is why I dropped Tekken 7, because I had no idea what was happening, what moves did what, the inputs were too difficult, and the game couldn't be bothered to teach me anything, so I couldn't be bothered to play it. Sorry, I'm not spending 3 weeks browsing forums and RUclips videos for help. At least Soul Calibur bothered to give written tutorials you can pause and read I think whenever you want. It's a fucking novella for every character but at least it's better than nothing. I don't know what the phobia with tutorials is, unless it's just a lack of care or effort.
I know no one wants to admit it, but if DBFZ didn't have the DB IP, it wouldn't have sold as well as it did, and its shortcuts and shortcomings wouldn't have been so easily brushed aside. The IP sold that game alone, and they knew that. That's why it took 3 seasons before they even bothered to try to give proper tutorials with that game, which imo is too little too late, since I doubt there are people still flocking to that game in droves like they were when it first got released, but I could be wrong. I know updates bring people back, but never for long.
TL;DR - Put better tutorials in fighting games that explain mechanics better, including advice and warnings, as well as frame data, and apply the latter to every single character.
If more games had MK11 type tutorials I’d be able to pull more of my friends in to play fighting games.
I really like what you had to say. Thanks for sharing and being honest :)
@@Kaliospectre no you wouldn’t. Because it sucks as a tutorial. It teaches everything but neutral, which is the real reason no one plays fighting games. Until a tutorial teaches you how to apply that knowledge instead of banking on getting that situation to happen for you every fg tutorial is fucking trash.
I'm not talented at fighting games at all, but I love playing them so I'm more on the hard work spectrum than the gifted side. That said while I have no natural talent, I put in training and heavy training so I can get the most out of my basics and fundamentals so I'll be the least flashy fighter in a match but I have a methodical approach to how I fight.
I know I already commented, but I freakin love the rant about playing footsies in real life. I'm a counselor and I'm probably going to use that at some point!
Shoutouts to brolylegs, RIP to the legend
Everything I learned about fighting games I learned from this channel. Thanks Max!
I learned to move on to a genre where I don't need to spend 1,000 hours to begin to learn to maybe win once.
@@17thknight Well some of us love the challenge man, for me it's fun and exciting to constantly learn and improve. Been playing fighting games since the 90's and it's still my favorite genre.
Dude... it is this kind of talk that Max brings and his overall understanding of how life works and giving your best, even at tough times, is the kind of stuff that really makes me feel like Max is going to be the best dad ever. I already felt this way, but damn... really powerful stuff he said here.
Talent can only help you reach the platform. Its hardwork that will enable you reach to the top.
It is not fair to say that "There is no such thing as talent". Hell, at 3:40 you explain EXACTLY what talent is: some people grasp certain things faster than others. Hard work will allow them to compensate over time, but this is EXACTLY what "Talent" is: a natural capacity to quickly develop a skill at a basic level of competence. A "headstart", not a "shortcut".
Wanting to get “competitive” at a fighting game in a week is like me wanting to get “in shape” for the Olympics in a week.
I'd settle for "not be a punching bag in a week."
Lol, it takes a week in any fighting game to begin to learn to move. Fighting games are niche as fuck because the barrier to entry is My Everest and once you scale it you're still the worst player on Earth.
It isn't worth it and it never will be. The genre is too obtuse. The very existence of the DP motion and similar dumb shit is the death of the genre
17thknight There’s more salt in this comment than the Pacific Ocean.
@@AirahsELL Realistically in anything you do, a week isn't close to being enough to graduate from punching bag if you're starting from scratch.
@@ooqan if it gets to the point where you can at least grasp something and move from there it should be good enough. One of the issues I have with fighting games is that a lot of things have convinced me that you cannot have fun with a game at all unless you want to be competitive. I don't give a shit about being competitive (I lose all the time to my one friend in Smash) but it makes me feel like I'm having fun wrong if I don't care about putting in tons of hours of work into a single game when I want to play a lot of different games. Skullgirls is my favorite fighting game of all time but I don't want to play it for the rest of my life. I want to play Guilty Gear and Smash and Mario Kart and Dark Souls and Persona, and throwing such a large amount into a single game makes me miss out on everything else that exists.
Man, getting a life lesson from unintentional ways are truly blessed.
Thanks, Max. I really appreciate.
4:12 I feel the need to point out that, having seen some of those same programs and being a professional teacher, that most professional fighting game players are *terrible* teachers, *particularly* when their pupil is someone with no fighting game experience. Many who are at the top level of competition have forgotten what it even means to be that new to a subject and think that they are starting with basics talking about neutral, footsies, and bnb combos (see Woolie Madden's DBFZ video for beginners for an EXCELLENT example of this.) There is a concept in pedagogy called the Zone of Proximal Development that these approaches utterly fail at (look it up if curious.)
All this to say: teaching something and being good at something are related skills, but not the same skill.
this is exactly what happened to me when I was trying to get better at DBFZ and was searching for forums and servers for help to see wtf I was doing wrong. People were as nice as they could be trying to explain mechanics and inputs for BnB combos and techniques, meanwhile I'm sitting here with a blank face not even comprehending half of what they're telling me, let alone being able to execute what they were treating as stuff that was stupidly easy, and when I said that I wasn't able to do certain "easy" things it sorta stopped them in their tracks. I mean I'll give them credit they tried helping me but if people are going to try and play teacher, they need to be more patient and understanding, remembering that not everyone knows fighting game terminology and not everyone has been playing since they've been able to hold a controller. You don't teach someone to drive in a Formula 1 car.
I've watched countless programming tutorials on YT, and they all still fail at proper tutorials. I don't need a history lesson, nor do I need to learn every non essential language. They just don't show you the basics of why/what/how/etc.
Most of them are already experienced programmers, so they never look at how to deal with complete newcomers, and get way to tech savvy.
I still haven't found anyone who knows their stuff, and can teach it properly to someone who knows nothing about programming. Maybe it's too hard, even for the smartest person in this field. I don't know.
All I can do is take important bits here and there and try to figure it out for myself.
Games have never been more complex. It takes days, countless hours and years to achieve getting good. It's not easy
im gonna say no there is no shortcut you want to get good put in the time
Factz
Yep
I think theres games where yes, time put in is necessary, but theres that talent
Especially in shooters, its like they were made for that, and in other genres
FIghting games, i feel like theres not that many talent, its pure hard work and passion
There's no shortcut for anything in life leave alone getting good at FG's!! Usually the shortcuts land you in a worse possible situation than a regular one.
What if i put in time while being abhorrant trash?
Games in general have a learning curve and take time to learn and advance in. Take people that have never touched a video game, they don't intuitively know where to go in a game or what the basic controls probably are. It's after you spent years playing games that you can pick up a game and have a general idea of the controls within minutes and be powering through with ease after a short amount of time. This ease of use isn't as easy for many people that have never touched a video game.
Along with that, sometimes there are mechanics that don't make sense until they eventually click after enough time played. The amount of time is different and even which mechanics will give people trouble varies between people.
My advice is to consider Seth Godin's quote on practice “There’s a practice available to each of us-the practice of embracing the process of creation in service of better. The practice is not the means to the output, the practice is the output,”
The physical element argument only works to a certain extent. You absolutely cannot compete in the NBA if you are in a wheelchair, for example. While there might not be natural talent or shortcuts to greatness in certain competitive games and sports, there are some elements of luck in terms of physical, geographical, and financial limitations.
Michael Jordan is the best basketball player of all time, but he also grew up in a town that had a basketball team, got seen by the right scout to go to a college with a good team, had great coaches along the way, and ended up being 6'6"
Yessssss, but you can be given a template, you still have to use it. You can't make a cake without flour but just giving someone flour, eggs, milk etc. doesn't mean they can make the cake without practice and/or instruction.
You know that being a wheelchair have nothing to do with lacking talent, right? Both players could be equaly talented, or even the disabled player could used to be the more talented back when they could walk, but the fact they can't compete anymore have nothing to do with talent in this case you mentioned...The variable here isn't talent, it's that one can run and jump while the other is stuck in a freaking wheelchair.
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People really need to stop trying to make their point by using BS in which the variable have nothing to do with the subject...
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Other than that, I totally agree with the Michael Jordan part, the opportunities and hard work put in largely outweight his natural tallness alone. At same talent level it's hard work and learning capabilities that are the important variables.
@@arcengal Obviously that's true. Of course it's all of that plus hard work, but it's disingenuous to say that anyone who works hard can be successful at something.
SivartAuhsoj I mean, I’m legally blind. I could work hard to be good at basket ball as a pastime activity. If I play enough, I could get real good. But I still have bad depth perception. But also, that has nothing to do with skill. But it has to do with certain traits.
Its true. Everything is dedication. Nothing is easy. Everything has to be earned. This guy is wise
You know the mentality behind talent not existing is good. Working hard gets you places and that’s a healthy mentality. But no amount of working hard will make you as good at swimming as Michael Phelps or as good at basketball as Lebron James and the same applies to games. No amount of hard work is going to make you think like Sonicfox or block like Go1. You’re not going to hit confirm like punk does unless you’re born like that. These are exceptional people and they are capable of what they do because they work hard and are talented. I feel it’s unhealthy to just right off their talent as “well they just work harder than me I could be as good as them if I wanted to but I just don’t (insert excuse here) enough.” So appreciate the talent of these great players. They don’t come around that often.
Lol i know it's been 2 years but this comment just doesn't make sense. Just convolutional on the word "talent" with examples of people that got defeated by other players too. "Amazing people must have talent, if not they would not be amazing."
"Talent" is just the word people use to describe the part of the learning process that they don't understand. And it makes them feel better. That's it.
5:53 It took me years to understand and translate mechanics from one game to another. Picking up new games has become much easier and now I can identify what concepts are familiar to me and build off that. In a way, my "foundation" has expanded.
"Its an absolute myth that natural Talent exists"
This just isn't true, At least not entirely. You silghtly proved why at 4:30 in the video.
People are born with different brains and brain chemistry. Sure, Nobody is going to come out of their mothers womb playing Mozart but people definitely are born with a higher ability to learn how to do so at a young age. You brought up a few players physical with disabilities like Brolylegs and Wheels. Players like these legends in my eyes for being able to play at such a high level despite their physical disabilities, however (as far as I know) they still have high functioning brains. Their hard work and determination is definitely a factor and is a major reason they're so good but they also have brains that allow them to Adapt, Learn, and Overcome certain obstacles. You don't need to have high dexterity or be able to do max damage combos to do well in fighting games, But you do need is the ability to process information quickly. Reactions are one thing, but being able to take note of your opponents patterns and quickly make proper adjustments to take advantage of that requires brain power, brain power that not everyone has.
I think there is also the element of you play what you played as a kid. If you didn't play fighting games as a kid it is VERY hard to get into them later in life. When you are younger you usually only have 1-2 main games you play, and you play them, a lot. For me it was third person action styled games. I have those skills down to muscle. Put me in front of a fighting game and almost everything I know about controlling a game goes out the window. I can play enough to get through the story mode then I stop having fun. If it is not fun I have trouble to keep playing. It is like learning a language in a way. If you learn it young you can learn more later in life, if you learn it when you are older it is VERY difficult.
@@account7164 that is an excuse. If you put everything you have you can do ANYTHING. But that does mean sometimes sacrifices are necessary. Like not playing other games, or sometimes not having fun but keep playing cuz u wanna be the best
Brolylegs.
It's a myth that "Talent" exist, at least when it comes to the definition from people who use the word all the time.
Talent is having better capabilities to do something at a base level, which translate into the skills learnt along the way. It's a head-start.
Someone who learn to read perfectly an opponent after a round or less may be skilled to learn on the fly. Someone who get what their options are at a fast rate may simply have a better memory than someone who need to "hard-code" them options like a kid preparing for a test at school.
In that sense, yes, talent exist.
But "Talent" as people use it all the time is disgusting. And as an artist I hear double the amount of that utter BS about how "you succeed because you're talented, totally needed no training for that. Oh I wish I was talented and I could even try to do the same."
Sounds familiar? Yeah...
"Talent" as used by the masses is just an excuse to look away from the hard work and training, like if you were a freak who can make it happen by magic and bonus points for "I don't even try because I can't compete against guys like you out there". Like seriously, nobody is born a pro painter or a pro player, and not everyone have to strive for being n°1 at what they do. Using talent as an excuse to not put in word AND make the ones who did invest time in a craft feel bad? It's just disgusting...
Someone without talent but who puts alot of hard work daily will always surpass a genius who work a day per year on their stuff. May take years, the odds are crushing and discouraging, but it WILL happen as long as they keep up long enough.
EDIT: What's with youtube deleting spaces between paragraphs lately..? That too is somewhat disgusting xD
Natural talent is definitely a thing. You just have to hone it into sharp skill. To say it doesnt exist is pretty asinine. There are definitely people who are good at things without ever having done them and they wont be top tier but they'll be damn good for some reason. Even reaction times change how good someone will be.
This is the truest shit I have ever heard. As a young jazz musician, I learned it pretty fast, but in this way. Rather than practicing 3 hours a day, I didn’t even count. Some nights I didn’t sleep. The nights where I did, I would listen to jazz and sometimes metronomes to build my internal clock and familiarity.Some nights my friends wanted to play games or go to Friday night magic, but I said no. I spent weekends away from my family. Because of that, I was able to get into the hs jazz band (beating jrs) in 7th grade. It also pisses me off when ppl talk about gear. I literally practiced parts on my knees until they bled during lunch and whenever I was away from my (very bad) drumset. Even now, I find completely incompetent in comparison to most people I encounter. Basically, everything max said was absolutely true and carries over to other fields.
You are a huge inspiration for me to get good, Max and I'm also a huge fan! Thank you so much
This was the EXACT thing I didn't know I needed to say TODAY, YESTERDAY AND TO REMEDY THE BLUES IVE BEEN HAVING FOR WELL OVER A MONTH NOW!!
Note: blue being part of clinical depression.
So I'm very grateful for this video being translatable from fighting games to LIFE IN GENERAL. It really helped my state of mind by triggering the releases in my brain!!
Thanks man!!
GRATITUDE APLENTY
I've been learning since MK9, my friend showed me that game and I fell in love with it. I then got every NeatherRealm Game after that, getting better and better. I tried Tekken TT2 and loved it so much, my love for Fighting Games got bigger. I'm glad you were there to support and entertain along the way.
Thanks Max
I needed to hear this. Thank You Maximillian-san. Just gotta keep trying to get good and my love for fighting will not die.
Honestly, i think natural talent does exist, but there's millions of people who are naturally talented at fighting games that don't play them. The difference that 'talent' makes up is like half a percent. The difference that physical ability makes up is half a percent. But hard work and loving what you're doing is the rest... and community.
"Fighting games are something so great"
I'm glad you made this video Max. I think I'm gonna come back to it whenever I feel unmotivated. Its such an honest discussion about getting good. Its not luck, its practice.
I am one of the suckiest players when it comes to Smash Bros but I try to at least get 1-2 hrs of play time before or after work with K Rool so I can burn it into my head what is a good option and what is a bad one. I don't focus on combos or anything fancy because I have to be good at fundementals before graduating to the upper tier of the game.
at least ur aware of what you need to do
If you try purely to understand the game, playing a fundamental character is better, so you focus more on more.. purist concepts like neutral, spacing, even walking and stuff.
Art Golem, while you're at it, you may as well use others characters. focusing on one character is good, but if you do as you say, wich is to learn fundamentals and options, learning what other charaters can and can't do is such a good information to gain. It's so important in Fg to understand match ups, and smash bros is specially hard on it considering the size of the roster.
Fuck yeah! Kudos man.
This shit right here spoke to me. I’m 19 and I really want to start putting the time into learning and competing at a higher level. All the small stuff keeps getting in my head the fact that I play on a pad, the fact that I’ve never gone to a tournament, the pros, etc. But at the end of the day it doesn’t matter it’s whoever loves it more and puts in the most work. Thanks dood for the inspiration!
Me being born with bad hand-eye coordination and bad reaction time that I went to school for a lot, I've tried practicing for the better part of a few months and I still just barely am able to get the most basic shit down, and it's very frustrating but it's all about continuing to try, plus this is just me getting into fighting games at 18
Keep going man, you'll make it one day 💪
Keep going man, you'll make it one day 💪
You have to get beat up ALOT and understand why you’re getting beat. Having a coach or a friend that is 1-2 levels above you in the game will help. They allow you to see and understand things differently. Then you have to play a ridiculous amount of hours in that one game to continually level up until you plateau. THEN YOU GOTTA PLAY SOMEONE ELSE WHO IS 1-2 LEVELS ABOVE YOUR CURRENT LEVEL 😭
You might be born with talent, but it's hard work that makes you famous and better than other talented people.
Hard work is the great winner of battles.
Unfortunately this isn't always the case
@@SonnyBA1 Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
The thing is tho
Talent will always beat only hard work when Talent works hard!
If someone has talent and they bust there butt off. They will beat people who don't have that talent. Its just how it is
@White-Van Helsing reaction speed is still a physical thing
@@rockmanfan100 that is pretty true. Also helps when you are young too. Way more likely to learn much much faster
After starting to get into KI recently and watching a bunch of tournament footage wheels is starting to be one of my favorite players. Sadly he doesn't play any of the characters I want to learn in tournament but its just so satisfying watching someone with his kind of disability succeed and be one of the best players out there. Like even if you didn't know he had any sort of issue you'd still think that his play was super sick while watching it, then you see him and you're immediate reaction is just like "how was he doing that on screen with those limitations" and it just pushes you to keep working.
Yes, there is a shortcut.
The game genie will grant any of your requests
Okay then. Go swim in a sewer.
Yeah, you heard me.
(Reference to AVGN's Aladdin Dick Enhancer episode.)
Davethe3rd fantastic reference lol
When in doubt pull your lan cable out
I needed to hear this... I appreciate the work that you've put in and it's great that you're still active! 👍🏾
"It's an absolute myth that natural talent exists. Same thing goes for everything in life"
I understand what Max is trying to say, but this has literally been scientifically proven wrong many, many times. That's literally, and I mean literally like saying "We all have the exact same central nervous system, genetic code, and epigenetic responses to environmental factors".
Andy Bolton, the world record deadlifter, deadlifted 600 lbs the very first time he tried it. There are 4 year old kids that learn Mozart pieces after a month of playing. And no, I'm not talking about kids that are forced to do it. Google Emily Bear if you're skeptical. Another musical example would be perfect pitch vs. tone deaf individuals. Perfect pitch can't be learnt. It's impossible; you can only have very, very good relative pitch that's comparable.
Sorry, that was just a ramble. But I'm a fitness coach and I've seen the data on this, so I have strong feelings about it (read 'The Sports Gene" by David Epstein if you're interested). That being said, I still think that working hard enough at something will most likely lead to becoming elite, but you'd better be working harder than the person with more talent. Period.
I agree. Talent and genetics are always a factor in everything one does in life. As does Luck. Saying those are myths and don't exist is naive at best and utterly foolish at worst.
Talent can be ease of learning or being straight up good at something first try. If a talented person works hard to improve their talent, 8 times out of 10 they will always beat the guy who is not talented but worked his ass off to be at the same level. While the talented had to work arguably less due to natural affinity.
But Max has a good point, you need to keep trying to get better and improve. Not letting yourself be discouraged by countless failures, which after a while it's very easy to become disillusioned and absolutely discouraged. The Dating scene is the **biggest** example of this. Some people are naturally attractive, and need less work to connect and get dates than others who don't, those people have to work their assess off, go through multiple rejections and have to deal with not being good enough for others multiple times. It's a straight up numbers game at that point. As is everything.
Dealing with failure and moving forward is part of being human. Even when you fail when something isn't your fault and there legitimately is nothing to improve. (something very common in romance and dating, but people don't like to admit).
How about that Dr. Bruce Lipton about even DNA cells can changes (we just don't know how to "do it" directly)?
I know we have some gifted skillsets, and after all we can't replace every damn cells in a day. So yeah, things take time and effort.
This video makes me think of one of my friends. He saw me playing fighting games one day, got super hyped up, went out and bought MK11 and then asked me to play with him/teach him. My god was it frustrating. He couldn’t even grasp the concept of not hitting random buttons. It actually pissed him off that he would actually have to learn how to play. I told him his mindset was basically the same as playing a shooter and just shooting in random directions and then getting mad when he doesn’t hit anyone... oh well I guess there are some people who will never get it
honestly, this goes further than just fighting games. you can apply this advice to almost anything in life. hard work truly pays off. for some it may take longer, but if you love something you will find a way.
I love a lot of things and give up on those things because I know that I'm not good enough to give proper respect to those things. Explain that shit.
Yeah, I agree with this sentiment heavily. It's gonna take ages and ages to get good, and even then, once you *are* good, you have to keep playing in order to stay good. I just got back into FighterZ once UI Goku came out, and I spent 95% of my time in training mode figuring out things, fighting and testing out different matchups, and I finally thought I was ready to go online. Got waxed every single match. You gotta put TIME in if you want any consistent wins at all.
As for the whole "arcade stick gives you an advantage" thing - BULLSHIT. If anything, it's a hindrance if you're not used to it. Learning to use stick also takes time, and you probably won't be able to do it for all games. I learnt how to use stick in BBTAG, my main fighting game that I actually AM somewhat good at, and it made me worse at first. It takes weeks or even months to build up new muscle memory for that shit. And that's not even counting button layouts, which you'll want to keep as similar as possible. I literally can't play FighterZ due to the assist buttons being in an awkward spot with the layout I try to build muscle memory with (UMVC3) so I went back to pad and I'm getting better with that. It literally doesn't matter what you use, as long as you can use it WELL.
Talent is a myth? That is objectively false, things like high reactions, awareness, reflexes, stamina and memory are different for everybody and not everybody is born with all those traits, having a combination of all of those is basically what talent is. Talent is definitely a thing it's just depends on how far you are willing to take advantage of that talent.
That Rock Lee/Gaara fight in Naruto is basically this. For sure, hard work can eclipse gifted people who get lazy, but there’s also a point where somebody’s inherent gifts can still win out over hard work.
You can still train all of those to a certain extent. And that is still work and time.
It’s only a select few with raw talent that’ll be able to pick something up and be good at. If you put in the time, nobody with that talent will be able to beat you at the thing you trained hard for. Talent and knowledge are two different things. While gaining knowledge you also learn new skills. Sometimes people with talent don’t want to be the best at things, so they don’t try super hard
I watched your vid titled REAL TALK: Understand How To Get Better At Fighting Games a while back and it was eye-opening for me. I loved a few fighting games over the years but I was never good enough to beat ppl multple times and never quite understood why or how to improve. Then you broke the system down so effortlessly, I almost sh*t myself at how naive I was back then.
Life lessons to take away from here is a fact of life. You find something you can be truly be passionate about because, if you wont love doing it, you wont put in the time, effort and care to research and understand the ins and outs of it. You wont learn and grow at all at something if you are not deeply passionate about it enough to care.
“There is no such thing as an innate talent, that can overcome repeated hard work and effort.”
Bullshit. There is no amount of hard work that will let 99% of people even compete with SonicFox
As much as I would like for this to be true, it's not. If someone has innate talent and puts in the same amount of repeated hard work and effort they will always beat someone who puts in that effort but without the innate talent. I was a tutor for math and some of them tried a thousand times longer and harder than I ever did, but they couldn't even approach the level of math processing I could do in a minute. I can't even blame them for not trying. I cannot imagine fighting games would be an exception.
That's not to say that you shouldn't work hard, of course. Talent only goes so far.
@@kodosquea1994 u yourself are creating this huge wall. Saying u can't do it cuz this or that. But anyone can make it to the top if it has what it takes. And that means hours upon hours of sometimes even not having literally any fun but just for the sake of being the best
@@kodosquea1994 You just checkmate yourself there, mate!
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*If someone has innate talent and puts in the same amount of repeated hard work and effort they will always beat someone who puts in that effort but without the innate talent*
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Yes, indeed, at same level of hard work someone talented beats someone who isn't. That's the point, talent is a head-start that translate into the skills you learn along the way. But that's it.
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The saying of the original comment, about how hard work beats talents, is how hard work alone beats talent alone. As in someone training daily for years will reach the same level as a "genius" who work a day per year on their stuff. Can't really deny that, right?
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Your exemple is someone talented who work hard, what makes them super good at what they're doing right now, but that doesn't mean they always had this level right at the start. They too had a progression curve. They too had their losses, and had to learn.
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Sure, they did learn at a faster rate than random players, and practice enough to keep their level, but at this point it's their own hard work that pay off more than talent alone. Talent is good to learn faster and that's it.
Once at the top, only the amount of hard work makes one be n°1 instead of top-5, because that's the variable in there that counts "at equal talent level".
@@superxdish Nope, I am speaking as someone who has made it to the top in other fields that I won't mention here. I put in a lot of hard work too, of course. But I have seen people put in a lot of hard work and fail to reach even near where I did, because they did not have the talent.
Thank you! I come from a family of FPS/GTA players and they all think that I just have some sort of natural talent towards fighting games. The reality was just that while they were on the 360 playing Ghost Recon and Call of Duty together, I was alone playing Super Street Fighter II, World Heroes, and DOA4. Hell, I even played hack and slashes like Ninja Gaiden II and Dynasty Warriors. Since I was alone, I had no excuses like "You were distracting me" or "You picked a cheap character". As soon as I ran out of the other excuses, I would cool down, go back in, and started judging my responses and trying to fix them. Its a great way to teach self-development. Its the kind of thing that helps you realize that with some things, nobody can give you a map or tell you what you did wrong. Once you realize your own faults, it opens up a lot more opportunities since things don't seem as linear or clear-cut anymore. You start to see the randomness that can happen all around you and if you don't give up, you can learn to adapt to such abrupt changes and find your own way of playing.
"Talent VS hard work: Is there shortcuts to X"
In art, we say that talent is a Head-start, the only "shortcuts" are to understand early how important the fundamentals are instead of ignoring them, and of course to find the right way for you to learn instead of pushing toward a method you're not fully compatible with. There's no magic recipe of succes aside of "fail till you can make your creation acceptable".
The same apply everywhere, doing nothing but trying to find shortcut will make you invest time in sub-optimal stuff at best, wasteful stuff most of the time. Sure, someone more skilled at learning on the fly will read their opponent better after a round or two, and someone with a better memory will memorize their options and the opponent's faster than someone who needs to hard-learn them ilike a kid in school. But that's it, talent alone is just a head-start, not an easy mode.
Train your fundamentals, aka learning how to deal with most common situations, and you'll beat that guy with a perfect exec but who always go for "that one combo" all the time. Find your way to train and compete in an environment that make you progress rather than an oppressing one and you'll not "rage-quit or just come back once a year to the game" making progress slowly but at a steady pace.
"Never use it and you'll lose it", just like learning a new language and never using it outside of classes. There's no magic recipe and once skills in previous games may transfer partially to others of the same genre, anything involving memory or muscle memory is like sports. You need to practce to stay in shape no matter how talented you are or if 20years ago you were the talk of the town.
I wish I could get back in fighting games...But art is a demanding mistress, I don't play much anything nowdays because of this timesink... ^^"
Talent can help raise your starting point, but only hard work can bring you to the top.
But...
Some people DO have quicker reaction times, are stronger, taller, more genetically prone to be muscular and this DOES give them an edge.
Yes sometimes you can overtake these people by putting in 100s of thousands of hours but if they put in the same amount of practice as you they WILL beat you.
So? Is that an excuse for not putting in the time? If the 'talented' person put in as much time as you training then they deserve to beat you, they worked for it.
There will always be someone better than you, even when you think that there isn't, someone will beat you, the faster people get that in their heads, the better they'll be.
But that doesn't mean you can't be better than someone. If you train harder and you put more time than someone who you think has 'innate talent' but doesn't practice as much, you will surpass them, no question.
man, I have wanted to make a fighting game, (the art for it rather) for a while now, its not gonna happen anytime soon maybe never, but its videos and people like max that makes me want to ask them "can you help make a good fighting game?" from people who actually play these games all the damn time. so inspiring.
No shortcut here lads, pick a different gaming genre.
Exactly
There doesn't exist any activity where you can be good without effort. Any sport, game, hobby, etc, will require commitment. Pick something you're passionate about and give in to the grind.
Pretty much, sadly its why fighting games arent more popular. If tou want to be good at COD you just need to play and acctually try for 2-3 hours a night for like 2 weeks you will be pretty good. Not a pto, but good.
This can be applied to any game, even in real life
@@outlaw451 Another reason is because unlike most shooters you don't have teammates to help you out in a game and if you lose you can't shift the blame onto your teammates
I played doa5lr on Xbox 360. I ran across a guy named Raiden Wulong on there. That guy was literally top ranked on there. Beat my ass into a pulp....repeeeeaaaatedly. But, I kept challenging him in a lobby and eventually became super cool with him. I respected him so much more because I began to win against him yet, he never rage quit or cancelled our matches. He just gave me pointers whenever I'd win or lose against him. Not only did I get better, we got better. And I'm thankful for making a friend over friendly competition. That's an amazing and unforgettable thing. Something that I'll forever appreciate.
Hard work beats Talent when Talent doesnt work hard..
Damn great quote literal have never heard it before. It so unique and clever I'm sure you thoutgh if yourself because I've never heard that one before.
@@Azathottie lol? i guess..
Also there is several other factors like good teachers, passion, also opportunities. Its not talent vs hardwoking alone that make u successful, those other parts also play important roles.
Love you Max! Such true words. Gotta follow what you love and progress feels damn good! 🙏🏼
This reminds me of when people ask me how I'm so good at art, or compliment my art by throwing their own under the bus. Like, I have been drawing since I was 2. I'm 27 now. That's a lot of time and effort put into my craft. I've put in *years* of practice and studying of the fundamentals to get where I am. It's not a natural talent I was born with. I was just lucky that I was born into a family that values and appreciates art and they let me make it into a career. But other than that, anyone can do art. It just takes practice and time.
“compliment my art by throwing their own under the bus”
finally someone else is calling this shit out. god i fucking hate seeing that shit, people really don’t know how to complement others without putting themselves down anymore, ESPECIALLY with art. fuck outta here with that “i can’t even draw a circle” bullshit
Thank you for this video. This is eye opening as you say not just for fighting games, but for everything in life. Respect
Agreed.
One of the best pvpers on my WoW server was a guildmate and he had use of two fi gers on his left had, 3 on his right, and had 50% head movement.
Dude OWNED in the arena
100% agree with you Max.
Definitely a concept that applies to everything in life and not just fighting games - something i realised a few years ago. If you want to get good at anything (be it; working out at the gym, getting good at a video game, learning a language, building a business), you have to be willing to put the work in and be super consistent.
Consistency is key ladies and gentlemen 👏.
I try telling people this about things constantly. Thank you for putting it this well!
I needed this talk today, thanks Max.
"Some people pick it up faster" ...so, talent? Ofcourse talent is a thing, everyone who ever played sports as a little kid knows that all to well, some people just had a natural affinity for a ball or a certain sport and picked it up immediately, and they couldn't have worked hard at it... because they were children! Saying talent is not a thing is a HUGE disservice to the people who work their ASS off to get great at something they dont have a natural affinity for.
Now arguing that it's ALL talent, that ofcourse is just dumb, just like we've all seen people with talent, we've also seen those people just throw it away, and not work hard, and get passed by the people who DO work hard, usually the top of the top are people with talent, who ALSO work incredibly hard and have fantastic work ethics.
"imsert thank you gif"
Max, I truly hope someone makes a docuseries about you one day because of shit like this. You have such a gift when it comes to reaching people in terms of entertaining them as well as creating content that can truly resonate with people whether that’s in terms of raw hype, bringing people in close and making them feel like it’s just the two of you, whatever the case may be in that moment, you are incredible. Shine on and much love.
This just reminds me of that old clip of Mew2King doing wavedash motions on a controller in his sleep
He was faking it, but goddamn, it was convincing to most people.
I'm mostly a casual fighting gamer, but there was only one game I really fell in love with and that was Blazblue, specifically the 2nd iteration Blazblue Continuum.
At first iteration I enjoyed it for the chaos and the complexity of the matches. But once the second game out, I found a character that I truly enjoyed played, Hazama.
At first It was all just casual feeling and just trying to figure out the game but I lost 100% of the time.
I decided to put some time into the game, as I was really bad at 2D fighting game or any fighting game, even if I have played many other games before such as Street Fighter EX Alpha, MK1 on Snes or Tekken 2/3. But when it came to the strict feeling of doing hitconfirms, combos, tactical decision, fake outs, feints etc. I was clueless.
It took me 4 months of training, constant training in training mode, fighting other people after 2-4 days of constant training and timing to the inputs of that hard as balls game to play.
Blisters, bleeding thumbs, using a Ps3 controller, worn out controller inputs (Which was replaced), several hours constant focus to the point where I forgot to eat or sleep, or just became nauseous and collapsed infront of the game.
And this was during my University years, so it was a heavy time investment ( University went fine though, Priority 1 still). But I still wanted to become good.
And after 4 months of playing nothing but this game, I finally felt like I had a grasp and started to win against other players who played this for longer. And this is where I started to love the game and I will never not love this mainline series.
And I never attend proper large tournaments, I just wanted to get good at a game that I had very little knowledge about, and today I can say I am a threat to most players no matter what skill level. I played a few sidetourneys and other players that played this for years and I still will with the latest iteration Blazblue Central Fiction.
It was hell for my body and my hands, but I loved what came out of it.
If you love a game, you will put time into it. And once you get a grasp of the game, you will always improve and have fun while doing so.
"they are just lucky to have talent"...... Most people say but they don't realize that luck is just preparation meets opportunity.
As an artist, I have the double dose of disgust for that saying...
Innate Talent does exists... you can get far and high with hard work just like most normal people do... but it is a fact that there are people who are born with innate talent to do some stuff.... like singing, art in general, good at math, etc., etc... the list could keep going... you can also be okay at any of the mentioned before and polish it with hard work and get to be great at it, just the same way you can be a genius for the same skill, be great at it and polish it even further with hard work reaching further, higher and quicker than somebody who only is a hard worker.
Just to be clear I'm the type of person who believes that you can reach and achieve anything you want in life with hard work, but also I know and do believe that there are also talented individuals who are born with a predisposition to be good or "better" at some tasks just by nature... and that is how the world is even if you have a skill set where you are better than other people, it doesn't mean you will be perfect or superior just for that mater; because in most cases people that are that special are also people who lack a lot in other aspects of their whole being.
And this is why we love this man soo much, Max is capable of start a simple conversation about a fighting game and at the end give a valuable life lesson thank you Max.
I just started playing Granblue Fantasy Versus. I am very new to fighting games and it's clear to everyone online. There are so many levels to competition. It's fun:)
Max, you wouldn't believe as a struggling and depressed comic book artist how much I needed this speech. Thank you.
Tuff profession
Max is such a great communicator. I’ve never seen him live but I’d be very interested to see if he carries this integrity and charisma into a live situation.
This exact talk I have to tell people about illustration like I had to practice so much I failed classes and didn't leave the house for months in a row but the end result speaks for itself and even still I see masters doing what I can do in their sleep it just comes down to familiarity and patience. You have to always striving for something better and sharpening whatever you do. If you can see yourself doing it forever then do it as much as you can. If it always feels like there is a prodigy better than you, it's because there is, but remember one day you'll look back and be that prodigy to someone else. in my experience real progress is only visible in hindsight.
Also don't be afraid to find what you love *FIRST* and *THEN* become the best in world at that thing no matter how useless or mundane it may seem. Too often I see people just not meant for what they want not knowing or accepting what would really make them happy, just because it seems glamorous doesn't mean its for you. If you love what you do EVEN when you fail then keep failing until there is no way left to
Natural talent does exist. I have trained many people. A good teacher knows how to teach someone with a way they will understand.
This has got to be the best Rwal Talk I heard in a while man. Thanks for getting in depth about your own feeling about this whole thing
And I was just asking this earlier! Great information, great timing and I'm motivated now