Not a really a fair criticism. When this opera is done today its usually done by one bass-baritone. In the old days there were always four separate villians with a high baritone taking this aria (added from "L'Etoile du Nord"). Sherill Milnes made a feast of the high A at the end of "Scintille" but he never sang the other three much lower parts.
The issue is why do they sing it in D. Offenbach died before the premiere. This aria was added by an impresario to fill out the score. It's a performance tradition. The other four villains are all lower. If you want for drammatic purposes to have one singer do all four then you take "Scintille" down to D. Most productions do that today. Some commenters however miss the very high brilliant G# version that was the older performance tradition.
I concur with Mr. Tonelove. Whatever key this is sung in (and there are several possibilities), I find Van Dam‘s approach more appropriate. Grandstanding (whether the last note be F#, G, or G#) at this point compromises the basic, albeit, sinister elegance in the aria itself. Perhaps when sung out of context, in recital for example, one might indulge in that extra high note but since many crash & burn in the attempt, this really further negates the reason for attempting it. Anyway, it’s still Grandstanding unnecessarily when interpreting the piece as a whole.
My bad. I just checked the score. It is indeed a G# not an A. But my point remains. That's just too high for Van Dam, Morris or Ramey in a live performance.
This is a very nice interpretation, but I need to admit, that I like Raimondi's interpretation more. Jose van Damm has certainly a beautiful voice. Very comfortable and soft. Not hard and rattling like some others.
My point was that this aria was interpolated into this opera. Toscanini was famous for striping singer's excrudescences from the composer's original intentions. That doesn't apply here. Scintille Diamante was never in Offenbach's original composition. There is a baritone version and a bass-baritone version. Faithfulness to the composer's intentions is not an isssue here. BTW I only heard Van Dam live once. He sang Angelotti in Tosca. I don't remember anything about his performance.
@arpeggio1358 Oh, yes! I am so annoyed of discussing with people who don't understand how to have a discussion, they always feel personally offended when it is all on an objective level... :-)
i am sorry folks..the last note of van dam he sings is only a d #sharp.the score says it should be a g#..if u wanna hear the real note check out my father siegmund nimsgern with domingo at londons covent garden 81 under yu tube! :-) best frank
Must I continue forever to apologize for saying that it was an A not a G#? I said it was too high for Van Dam, Morris or Ramey in a live performance. I also said the G# was done by Milnes so it shouldn't surprise anyone that Warren also sang that way. Did Warren ever sing all four villians? No. Did Warren ever sing Hoffman on stage at all? Not at the Met and not at San Francisco. What Warren did in concert is hardly relevant here. Please post you version with the high B.
je suis encore daccord avec toi pour la voix exeptionelle de Van Damme j'ai vu enormement d'opera avec lui il est fabuleux
Un des meilleurs du siècles. Et sa prononciations en français est un régal pour moi. (on devine pourquoi).
Mon idole pendant des années...
magnificently sung!
I love that he didn't go for the high note at the end, which most people screw up when its live, and went for an incredibly elegant ending. Bravo Jose
Fantastico
Outdoor performance.
Merveilleux Jose Van Dam! Qui lui a succédé parmi les chanteurs francophones?
Have you ever been to Orange? The place is WINDY. Look for the Caballe's Norma and see the wind in action.
Not a really a fair criticism. When this opera is done today its usually done by one bass-baritone. In the old days there were always four separate villians with a high baritone taking this aria (added from "L'Etoile du Nord"). Sherill Milnes made a feast of the high A at the end of "Scintille" but he never sang the other three much lower parts.
The issue is why do they sing it in D.
Offenbach died before the premiere. This aria was added by an impresario to fill out the score. It's a performance tradition. The other four villains are all lower. If you want for drammatic purposes to have one singer do all four then you take "Scintille" down to D. Most productions do that today.
Some commenters however miss the very high brilliant G# version that was the older performance tradition.
I concur with Mr. Tonelove. Whatever key this is sung in (and there are several possibilities), I find Van Dam‘s approach more appropriate. Grandstanding (whether the last note be F#, G, or G#) at this point compromises the basic, albeit, sinister elegance in the aria itself. Perhaps when sung out of context, in recital for example, one might indulge in that extra high note but since many crash & burn in the attempt, this really further negates the reason for attempting it. Anyway, it’s still Grandstanding unnecessarily when interpreting the piece as a whole.
i'm liking the fan going during the whole aria. i feel like i could sing like that if i had a fan on me too
My bad. I just checked the score. It is indeed a G# not an A. But my point remains. That's just too high for Van Dam, Morris or Ramey in a live performance.
@arpeggio1358 That's what a discussion is about, isn't it? :)
This is a very nice interpretation, but I need to admit, that I like Raimondi's interpretation more. Jose van Damm has certainly a beautiful voice. Very comfortable and soft. Not hard and rattling like some others.
My point was that this aria was interpolated into this opera. Toscanini was famous for striping singer's excrudescences from the composer's original intentions. That doesn't apply here. Scintille Diamante was never in Offenbach's original composition.
There is a baritone version and a bass-baritone version. Faithfulness to the composer's intentions is not an isssue here.
BTW I only heard Van Dam live once. He sang Angelotti in Tosca. I don't remember anything about his performance.
@stripernutkl right, thanks :p
@arpeggio1358 Oh, yes! I am so annoyed of discussing with people who don't understand how to have a discussion, they always feel personally offended when it is all on an objective level... :-)
i am sorry folks..the last note of van dam he sings is only a d #sharp.the score says it should be a g#..if u wanna hear the real note check out my father siegmund nimsgern with domingo at londons covent garden 81 under yu tube! :-)
best frank
Martial Singher: Scintille Diamant - 1959, Met:
watch?v=F4R5YFKNws0
thanks and regards
I need a pitch pipe.
@arpeggio1358 To be honest, I think Ramey's voice (although I like it) is too heavy for this role, at least for me. :)
Must I continue forever to apologize for saying that it was an A not a G#?
I said it was too high for Van Dam, Morris or Ramey in a live performance. I also said the G# was done by Milnes so it shouldn't surprise anyone that Warren also sang that way.
Did Warren ever sing all four villians? No. Did Warren ever sing Hoffman on stage at all? Not at the Met and not at San Francisco.
What Warren did in concert is hardly relevant here. Please post you version with the high B.
Micel dens scintille diammant
why discuss about a high A or G# . They all sing it in D which takes them at the most to a F# !
Check with your finger on the keyboard....
Is he a baritone or a base??
Baritone
"tradizione tradimento" (Toscanini)
Nul horrible !!