hey, have you seen that engine sound simulation software that your fellow peer AngeTheGreat made? if not, you can program some pretty accurate sounding engines with visuals too. for some of the more obscure engines out there, this could be a great tool for your use case here. it's just kinda tricky to learn the program.
Wow, that poor guy. What an innovative smart dude. It’s a shame he got hurt and disabled, but it is certainly admirable that he still made those motors and got them running!
guess happened when ass hit moving ground clothes grabbing ground so too muc force went up spine. so bike clothes need a padded slippery iron ass plate that can skid and pad takes shock kinda stiff dense foam mabe inch thick or two
@@orangestoneface The air bag jackets are the way to go I think. They protect your spline without being overly restrictive. Though this wreck he didn't leave the bike until he nearly hit the ground, so I am not sure how effective it would have been. It wasn't really the bad of a wreck, just some bad luck there. Most would have walked away with a few scrapes.
What a guy! While a simpler design is always preferable, nothing can beat the elegance and ingenuity of an overcomplicated mechanical solution. Even if it's not actually better, it's still a win for the fact he did this all himself. It's not a question of 'why' but rather 'why not'.
"...simpler design is always preferable..." Agreed, but this engine is not much more complicated then a conventiontal 4 cylinder: 2 additional Rockers + 4 Rods but only a Single Main-Rod (like in a Single cylinder) wich allows a shorter and much simpler crank. The pivot-points are an issue as each has to take full pressure but also take away power and effeciency, durability might be questionable.
This is a fun proof of concept for a mechanical geek who is enamored with unnecessary clockwork.... so I get it. I stop short of calling it a good design though, as durability will be lacking. This has all the potential power of a 4-banger without the biggest benefit of an actual 4-banger. The 4 position crank is the heart of the beast.... This has all the spirit without the strong heart. But kudos for getting it up and running, with good numbers!
Here's an important consideration that has not been discussed here: One of the issues that increases friction in an engine is the sideloads on a piston when the crankshaft is anywhere other than top or bottom dead centre, and of course this also results in piston and cylinder wear over time. This friction against the sidewall of the cylinder is significant. The Comma van had a diesel engine that had a similar principle where the conrods with pistons at one end went to rocker arms instead of directly to the crankshaft, and at the other end of the rocker arms was a conrod that connected to the crankshaft. What this meant was that the sideloads were transferred to a rotary bearing rather than a sliding bearing (the piston in the cylinder) and that reduced friction. This could work a similar way if the con rods connecting each piston to its associated rocker arm were a bit longer so there was less side-loading of the pistons.
2&3 possible more 3&4 no worse than a Normal engine. I say possibly on 2&3 because the 1/4 cylinders moving the other direction connected by the teeter totter arm their connection rods are hooked too. I do not ever see this coming into production at least not in a big 4 stroke engine. That sid a small two stroke it might be okay and save enough weight to make it worth the change. One thing that could be interesting is if 1&4 set further away from 2&3. You could make those two cylinders taller and a longer stroke because the teeter totter fulcrum could be offset so the outside cylinders would have not only a longer stroke but more leverage than it it is centered. Do that in a 2 stroke and it might make pretty cool two stroke. It could have a short stroke and long stroke. Of course every other stroke would be more powerful. Don't take me too serious as I am going down a rabbit hole after a gummy several hours ago. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 But either way I don't think it would last as long as a traditional engine would be. But it is neat to see people build things with their hands that do work. For a guy to repurpose old engines into something different is pretty cool.
I think you're entirely correct, hard to see any obvious large advantages for the solution. To add something, the crankshaft would have all four power cycles applied to a single point and that can't be good for fatigue. It is an interesting take on a 4s though. Maybe could find some advantage inside another packaging concept?
Yeah, I don't get it. I can't see how the 2 outer pistons contribute to power production at all. All they appear to do is power the compression stroke of the 2 inner pistons, something the crankshaft flywheel effect does already and without the additional friction and weight/complexity of those additional cylinders, pistons and rocker arm. What am I not understanding here?
@@holdernewtshesrearin5471 They push the rocker which in turn pulls up on the main con rod, transferring force to the crank shaft. Some of the force also powers the compression stroke, but that’s the same on any engine, except normally the forces are transmitted through the crank.
The outer Pistons are pulling the single piston rod upwards and the inner pistons Are pushing downwards both push and pull brings the same power which converts into rotation of the crankshaft
Actually their might be an advantage. I'd have to model it.. But it does look like 2nd order vibrations are cancelled out. Effectively the velocity of the pistons moving up the bore are directly tied to the pistons moving down negating the deceleration mismatch in the bottom 180 deg of crank rotation from the accelerating pistons in the top half of the bore ( top 180 deg ) of crank rotation... On bigger 4 piston engines this might negate the need for counter rotating balance shafts. However this might account for the power loss, as the burn rate on the outside pistons will have a different profile from the inner two pistons. Interesting never the less.
What an accomplished man! I am not a mechanical engineer but have a strong interest in engine design and feel the radial design shows the most initial commercial success although just about any reasonably practical design can be made good if enough money is thrown at it. I think it is so difficult to get away from existing designs from a build cost / power output basis and of course all the emissions rules. I hope this man will still bless us with his design ideas.
This is genius! The main connecting rod is always being pushed and pulled in a direction that never sees heavy force, the fulcrum con rod is pulling it up on its up stroke, and pushing it down on its down stroke. According to this animation. The force it sees is at an absolute minimum. Which this set up the only thing that could be weak is are the mains and rod bearings but being so few would be easy to keep lubricated. Bloody brilliant.
This is one of those engines that will be almost forgotten but in like 100 years someone re-discovers it and brings it back 👏👏👍this is an amazing concept and inovation and the fact that he did it on his own is even more amazing
Not really, this is just classic german over engineering that doesn't actually make the performance any better.. If anything it just makes it more liable to break.
The most stressful point on a connecting rod is not the combustion stroke, it is the exhaust / intake transition, where the forces accelerating the piston are felt as tension across the cross section of the small end. This design moves the bulk of those stresses from the single con rod to the twin mini con rods. The real durability issue would be across the smaller cross section of the small end of these mini con rods. It can do nothing but lower the overall durability when compared to a conventional 4 stroke.
Exactly, metal is ALWAYS much weaker in tension than compression. Plus adding power strokes that transmit the force via tension is just asking for trouble.
How about the flex in the “side” rockers? If you run any compression the piston will his the head at TDC of the breathing strokes due to beam flex and rod stretch. This isn’t new and isn’t a good idea. It was called a walking beam engine a hundred years ago, it was a failure then and still a bad idea now. Also, anybody want to calculate the stress on that single big end? How strong it would have to be to pass all the power of a V-8 through one big end and one set of mains? The WWII radial aircraft engines passed all the power of a “row” of cylinders through a single rod, true, but they seldom spun over 3K rpm. Oh yeah, they also had guys like my father rebuilding them after (relatively to a street car) very few hours of operation.
This cylinder design basically changes a V8 to the crankshaft dynamics of a 2 cylinder steam engine. with power stokes acting on every extension and retreaction of the two con rods (a power stroke every quarter turn). Ultimatly I belive it didn't take off since it doesn't really provide any benifit over a standard V8 design, since it doesn't reduce the number of moving parts or the complexity of machining the engine block. it is an interesting mechanism, but not much more. Obvs props to the inventor, hopefully he continues his development, and will eventually create something that genuinly can be used to improve ICEs in the future.
I remember hearing about the Stern idea awhile back which was interesting but ultimately too complex for real usability. Somehow this one slipped under the radar for me, and at least as an engineering exercise goes, is the more interesting one to follow. Provided materials are up to par, the exciting bit is it's significantly smaller packaging envelope potential. I can't see it being equal regardless of cylinder count on torque potential, but having a full blown 8 cylinder engine in a bike that takes a portion of the room as an I4 with perhaps less material weight overall is intriguing to say the least.
More worrying about the system disintegrating before generating a significant specific power. The Ducati V2 twin desmo is a fantastic engine, and a torque wizard, that lacks power. A solution that reduces the power further, adding weight, cost and complexity, for how ingenuous, is completely useless.
I see high reciprocating mass gains, as well as total engine size, and an increase in parts. Neat, but not used because fewer parts = fewer failures, less weight, reduced production time, etc… I remember seeing an arrangement like that in b&w photos in a book…
Hadn't heard hide nor hair of this engine before, but what an interesting take! Like Honda's oval piston design which was meant to mimic the advantages of a V-8 in a GP bike, Wirthwein's engine may not be an advance over the typical piston engine, but it's genius anyway. It also might lead someday to a practical and superior engine to what we have now. Interesting engineer and a well-done video.
Amazing. Very complex - I wonder about longevity - but this is a brilliant bit of engineering. The fact that it even works is proof of latent potential.
when the steam engine came up on the end of it's useful life, the engineers tried everything to keep them relevant. The ICE engine is at that point today. It was an amazing device when you think that it is a machine that moves us around by using explosive liquid and it does it so quietly that we do not think of the explosions but like steam, explosive propulsion is on it's last legs. We do not need any more iterations of the ICE. We are moving on from there. Steam was great and ICE was great and hats off to both of them. They both get a statue in the square.
The 2 problems i can see is the sound and vibrations of low end single cylinder engines... 4 cylinder engines always sound good.. and cancel out vibrations.
@@swapnilmankame Yes, but you could just make a four cylinder engine. I'm not sure it saves that much space, and if you're willing to go to such extremes because of packaging constraints, a 90° V4 is also balanced, and sounds incredible. I have a Honda Magna V30 I'm in the middle of fixing up and it has to have my favorite engine sound _of all time._ It makes me wish my four wheeled Honda felt half as alive... even if it meant requiring major engine repair to reach 230k. I would replace piston rings _myself_ for that beautiful little V4 to live on and make someone else happy for a while. If old ironsleeves loses compression, I'll dig its grave. You'd think the engine with a brain would act more alive. I guess a carburetor can't go senile.
I believe this engineer is building engines for his personal fulfillment. He is obviously a person of great skills, but he is operating outside the industrial design complex; should his engines have merit, and they well could, there is no possibility for a recognition. Internal combustion engines are the most optimised devices in the world, so any improvement does require expensive test equipment - only available to industrial complexes. Well done!
May be, seen the way the engine is laid out, it is possible to computerise the valves control, and utilise the power cycle which cause traction on the conrods, by recirculating the exhaust gases in the adjacent couple of cylinders - so to extract a 1 - 2 % more efficiency from the engine...
Not great for packaging but long rods bring their own advantages like lower thrust forces on the piston and more equal acceleration of the piston at the top and bottom halves of the stroke.
to all rhose whining about too much stress on one rod, it was pointed out that since only one piston is ever firing, its not that much more stress than a regular setup.
The most interesting takeaway from this is the potential to add cylinders and displacement to smaller engines by driving multiple pistons off each existing con-rod. It's probably too expensive to bring to market as it would be easy to swap an entire engine as it would be to retrofit this system
I have total respect for what the guy has done, but I feel sorry for the neighbours, they have to listen to the loud motor noise. He should probably do it somewhere else.
The first rule in engineering is KISS , and most engineers know what that stands for! Great that the idea works, but just because you can, doesn't mean you should!!
@@kolsen6330 Agree, I have BMW motor bike, and it is definitely over engineered, but then again , all modern motor cycles are the same, far too much unnecessary and expensive technology in them. Can no one design something simple anymore? apparently not!
Engines with rockers have been successful before, look at the Commer/Rootes TS3 3 cylinder 6 piston two stroke diesel from the 1950s. These engines really proved the concept but 2 strokes are too hard to comply with current emissions.
Two stroke petrols using crankcase compression yes, but two stroke diesels do not use crankcase compression so emissions are the same as four stroke diesels, they use a blower to push the air in so any overlap of intake/ exhaust timing its just air that gets blown out, which by diluting the gases reduces the measured emissions!, there have been petrol two stroke designs that use a secondary piston for air flow negating the need for oil in the fuel and these have emissions the same as four strokes, but at greater complexity and expense than a traditional two stroke design, whatever you do you never get something for nothing!.
Interesting idea. On the geared cam drive for the radial: all the WWII radial aircraft engines that used cams to actuate valves* had reduction geared camshafts. Often they were geared to 1 turn to the 4 for the crankhshaft, 1:4. They could do this because the cam rings were quite large, and by spinning the cam so slowly, they could make use of really aggressive cam profiles. *the exception being the sleeve-valve engines, which didn't use cam-actuated poppet valves, at all. Reliable though being monstrously complex, they didn't offer any real adantages over poppet valves.
if you built the lower end of the engine much smaller since there is only 1 rod bearing journal to support and enclose with the engine block your saving a lot of weight from not having a full crankshaft and not having a full engines length of supporting metal on the engine block compared to a typical engine with four rod bearing journals. so honeslty this engine should be quite a bit lighter for its given power output similar to a rotory engine while still functioning mostly the same as a normal reciprocating piston engine. so in an application like aircraft where the weight of the engine might matter more than the absolute power of the engine this might be advantageous. and if a highly developed version of this engine did indeed have identical power to an equivelent engine with a normal crankshaft then this is superior due to lower weight.
Being in that wheelchair, part of his body is inactive, but that area between his ears is "climbing a mountain" and contributing to the world of ingenious mechanisms/machines...Very interesting what active minds come up with...So many minds have been paralyzed by passive entertainment...
@@Eluderatnight Exactly, it's not the number of surfaces, it's the surface feet per minute and also force. So the side-loading of the pistons is potentially significantly reduced (see my top-level comment) as another factor as well as reduced bearing area.
But less side friction between the piston and cylinder, less reciprocating mass and less loss to vibration. Declaring this design worse without tests and based on a single point at face value amongst many is in my opinion quite arrogant
Fairly certain this reduces a huge amount of rotational mass of the crankshaft since there is only one crank journal and set of counterweights. The rocker arms look smaller than the size of connecting rods, so there is some mass savings there as well. The Achilles heal of this design is the Y shaped con-rod though, as forces are no longer transmitted directly down the rod, but across a lever arm at the central joint. This will most likely fatigue over time, and is the main reason why this engine isn't suitable for production. If this conrod was converted into two, then that is the best of all both worlds, as you can have cylinders that partially hang out over the crank case, which also saves significant weight. I think he should remake this engine with the piston rockers, this time with two internal crank journals centered on each of the two innermost pistons, 2 and 3. Edit: After observing the overlap of the rocker and rod at the piston connection, this isn't feasible either. I'm sure he already thought of that, and that's the reason why this engine shows no promise of improving on.
I see other issues as well. He's introduced another plane of movement which will create different harmonic vibrations to deal with. The very short length of the rocker connecting rods means they would be at an extreme angle and see high side loads at the bottom of the stroke. This would also require longer piston skirts for durability, especially for high revving motors, which removes some of the mass savings and adds to vibration.
That certainly is a fascinating arrangement of the two outboard pistons and connecting rods. Maybe just being unconventional is enough to stop further development.
Be interesting to get some valve area from all that additional space that is now available, And having the push/pull should allow for an interesting power delivery. Looks like a lot of potential in that concept, for the automotive , snowmobile, even boat world. Simply because of all the additional area for moving air now available.
one advantage is that there should be less friction between piston and cylinder since piston goes up and down and almost no other forces are involved (at least for outer cylinders). also i guess it could be lighter in a similar way like radial engines are lighter.
Depends on length of the rockers vs stroke length vs mini rod length. If the mini-rods and rockers are short then the angle of the mini-rod will be higher than a normal engine. Same for normal engine, short rods compared to stroke makes for a lot or piston wear and more non-linear piston travel speed, but makes for a smaller lighter engine. Everything is a trade off.
I think that there are little or no advantages to that single rod engine. There is about the same amount of friction and the torsion is just moved to different points of the crankcase making the engine more top heavy.
Actually their might be an advantage. I'd have to model it.. But it does look like 2nd order vibrations are cancelled out. Effectively the velocity of the pistons moving up the bore are directly tied to the pistons moving down negating the deceleration mismatch in the bottom 180 deg of crank rotation from the accelerating pistons in the top half of the bore ( top 180 deg ) of crank rotation... On bigger 4 piston engines this might negate the need for counter rotating balance shafts. However this might account for the power loss, as the burn rate on the outside pistons will have a different profile from the inner two pistons. Interesting never the less.
The main issue with the engine from the thumbnail is that the power is being transferred through one single connecting rod instead of 4. It does make the rotating assembly much more simple, and probably more reliable due to less moving parts and simple to produce. And if there is a lubrication problem and your rod bearings get destroyed and it throws the rod, then you’re basically screwed because that’s the only rod
A 1966 Honda 161cc 2 cylinder 4 stroke engine produced 16.5 HP. This engine is making less than 1/4 that, and if it's developed to make more, all energy is ultimately directed thru only one rod bearing.
Got to be some vibration issues as the short rod cylinders have a different rod angle than the center main rod. Also piston dwell time at TDC and bdc are different between the cylinders. I admire his work but he hasn't really reduced the parts count just moved the outer rods from direct crankshaft connection to indirect via the main rod. In fact there are 2 added spots for wear and friction, those being the fulcrum between the outer cylinders.
I like the neighbours window bit, He's doing gods work - now to the design - I like it, I know in aircraft you want More power but this is Light power. A single big end to Explode at 10,000 feet makes me feel just so much better, I mean if you build the crank right it's going to hang on and if you balance the 4 out by making it an 8 it's even better. I like the design and if we ever got to sit in a workshop for a week or two I think it would be exciting.
If I understood correctly the causes of second order vibration in a straight four, this design can solve it, since all the pistons have the same acceleration.
Seems like it would put a great deal of stress on that one or 2 crank bearings and would need to have them replaced often. It would probably be more practical for racing than daily drivers. I'd like to see how complicated those components are to maintenance.
People should really look at this motor. It is a work of art.. Who knows what this motor can really do . we might see this in years to come . I think he's really on to something big and better and cheaper than the other brands out there.
Really like my Korean made gold top. Also play USA Fender J and P basses so they act as good benchmarks. I think the Epi can easily hold its own against the P, but the J does have a wider tonal range as expected from the 2 PUs. Issues: it has pretty pronounced neck dive but swapping for lightweight tuners can help. The strap button location at the neck heel instead of on the upper bout also contributes to poor balance. Glossy neck is sticky but light sanding with 1000 grit paper fixes that. I also swapped the pretty ordinary 3 point bridge for a Hipshot and now have a brilliant looking, great sounding hollow body bass.
Such a shame that such a great mind will never get to experience his genius. True Innovator. Somebody help this man develop something to be able to give his projects a ride
I'm concerned about the mini conrods per cylinder. For 1 direction of cylinder movement (up or down), it sways left and right. I'm afraid if it easily break.
This is similar to the Pendulum Engine, which had such low friction it used no oil. It was adapted & it's used in air compressors, oxygen pumps can produce clean air for medical/hospital/scuba
Amazing! Hopefully it is offered by Ducati or some company. I have to wonder if it isn’t progressing simply because electrics these days are undeniably great and are just going to takeover. This has great appeal but maybe too niche because the market is shrinking. RC industry serves as example of what will happen. Piston power once was king but now is niche.
At the cost of adding more moving parts you could add connecting rods on the outer two and still utilize the constant power throughout up and down. You could also overlap them to make a V10 with only 6 connecting rods. I say this because the transfer of momentum also benefits from having more mass e.g. using a larger socket solving the problem of a stubborn nut or bolt.
Do a search on the amount of different designs it took to finally get an airplane off the ground safely. LIterally dozens and dozens of ideas that faild. However, in the end air flight is very common. This is how innovative change comes to be. A lot of people building their crazy ideas into what is hopefully a working model. When this happens our world changes forever. 😊
Has it ever struck anyone to stretch this design out to an inline 6? It would fix a lot of the harmonic issues I believe, and surely with a bottom end system that has less of a sharp innertial moment on a lot of its components, I would think it would be a matter of balancing or and putting on a good cylinder head? If it's more mechanically efficient, it should inherently make more power. I think ALL of his power loss comes down to cylinder head and valvetrain geometry
Wow that's a very smart person. It's just so cool to have an idea and actually make the invention I'm sure you have to have money for that. So I'm glad this person had the brains and the money to do it so more power to you Mr. DIETER..
I would argue that the orange and intermediate grey parts are all connecting rods, so this 4-cylinder engine has a total of 11 connecting rods forming a linkage to a single crank pin.
lol, i dont have to imagine being that neighbor. i live by a lake in Texas, i have two neighbors with giant fanboats theyre always tinkering with. they are incredibly loud.
@@MrUnderEstimated The bellcrank bearings are really only loaded as a piston is pushed down, which puts that into the weakest part of the bearing. The connecting rod bearings however, are loaded in both directions.
@@MrUnderEstimated Yes, but the bearings in the center of the bellcrank are being loaded downward during all stages of the cycle. The connecting rod bearing at the crankshaft is the one seeing forces in both directions.
Yes I don't like that. The force vector is at an angle to the crank, so the inner pistons will be seeing a sideways thrust as well as the conventional thrust forces from a conrod. A great deal of care would need to be taken with clearances to ensure there is no binding of either pistons or rod bearing as the engine heats up
Would be interesting to see if it has less internal friction than conventional engine. With more funding to conrod geometry it could have lot less moving mass, better balance and harmonics, more efficient. It would be real nice to see large manufacturer put down a sum of money to develop this.
I think that, since the two outer most pistons serves mainly to generate a force to compress the piston middle pistons, they could be smaller, tunned to generate the right amount of compressed force. That would certainly increase it's efficiency
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hey, have you seen that engine sound simulation software that your fellow peer AngeTheGreat made?
if not, you can program some pretty accurate sounding engines with visuals too. for some of the more obscure engines out there, this could be a great tool for your use case here. it's just kinda tricky to learn the program.
I think something like this would be great for radio controlled models and racers.
Where is the link to his videos
Wow, that poor guy. What an innovative smart dude. It’s a shame he got hurt and disabled, but it is certainly admirable that he still made those motors and got them running!
guess happened when ass hit moving ground clothes grabbing ground so too muc force went up spine. so bike clothes need a padded slippery iron ass plate that can skid and pad takes shock kinda stiff dense foam mabe inch thick or two
@mind fornication Or just don't be an idiot and ride a motorcycle on ice.
@@orangestoneface The air bag jackets are the way to go I think. They protect your spline without being overly restrictive. Though this wreck he didn't leave the bike until he nearly hit the ground, so I am not sure how effective it would have been. It wasn't really the bad of a wreck, just some bad luck there. Most would have walked away with a few scrapes.
@mindfornication5103 No thanks. I prefer having fun in my life :3
*engines.
What a guy! While a simpler design is always preferable, nothing can beat the elegance and ingenuity of an overcomplicated mechanical solution. Even if it's not actually better, it's still a win for the fact he did this all himself.
It's not a question of 'why' but rather 'why not'.
Definitely has the cool factor. Also a good way to cram a reasonably sized 8 cylinder engine into a bike.
Us germans in a nutshell
"...simpler design is always preferable..."
Agreed, but this engine is not much more complicated then a conventiontal 4 cylinder:
2 additional Rockers + 4 Rods but only a Single Main-Rod (like in a Single cylinder) wich allows a shorter and much simpler crank.
The pivot-points are an issue as each has to take full pressure but also take away power and effeciency, durability might be questionable.
This is a fun proof of concept for a mechanical geek who is enamored with unnecessary clockwork.... so I get it.
I stop short of calling it a good design though, as durability will be lacking. This has all the potential power of a 4-banger without the biggest benefit of an actual 4-banger.
The 4 position crank is the heart of the beast.... This has all the spirit without the strong heart.
But kudos for getting it up and running, with good numbers!
"why" but rather "why not". Which engineer thinks like that. Might as well put a window on the windscreen as well.
Here's an important consideration that has not been discussed here: One of the issues that increases friction in an engine is the sideloads on a piston when the crankshaft is anywhere other than top or bottom dead centre, and of course this also results in piston and cylinder wear over time. This friction against the sidewall of the cylinder is significant. The Comma van had a diesel engine that had a similar principle where the conrods with pistons at one end went to rocker arms instead of directly to the crankshaft, and at the other end of the rocker arms was a conrod that connected to the crankshaft. What this meant was that the sideloads were transferred to a rotary bearing rather than a sliding bearing (the piston in the cylinder) and that reduced friction. This could work a similar way if the con rods connecting each piston to its associated rocker arm were a bit longer so there was less side-loading of the pistons.
And let’s hope the pistons don’t poke out of the bottom of the cylinders like the animation shows.
@@preachers4135 yeah that looks sketchy as hell. All it has to do is overtravel one time and the engine becomes a grenade
2&3 possible more 3&4 no worse than a Normal engine. I say possibly on 2&3 because the 1/4 cylinders moving the other direction connected by the teeter totter arm their connection rods are hooked too. I do not ever see this coming into production at least not in a big 4 stroke engine. That sid a small two stroke it might be okay and save enough weight to make it worth the change. One thing that could be interesting is if 1&4 set further away from 2&3. You could make those two cylinders taller and a longer stroke because the teeter totter fulcrum could be offset so the outside cylinders would have not only a longer stroke but more leverage than it it is centered. Do that in a 2 stroke and it might make pretty cool two stroke. It could have a short stroke and long stroke. Of course every other stroke would be more powerful.
Don't take me too serious as I am going down a rabbit hole after a gummy several hours ago. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
But either way I don't think it would last as long as a traditional engine would be. But it is neat to see people build things with their hands that do work. For a guy to repurpose old engines into something different is pretty cool.
tldr
@@hksp Sorry? Not sure what that means
I think you're entirely correct, hard to see any obvious large advantages for the solution. To add something, the crankshaft would have all four power cycles applied to a single point and that can't be good for fatigue.
It is an interesting take on a 4s though. Maybe could find some advantage inside another packaging concept?
Yeah, I don't get it. I can't see how the 2 outer pistons contribute to power production at all. All they appear to do is power the compression stroke of the 2 inner pistons, something the crankshaft flywheel effect does already and without the additional friction and weight/complexity of those additional cylinders, pistons and rocker arm.
What am I not understanding here?
@@holdernewtshesrearin5471 They push the rocker which in turn pulls up on the main con rod, transferring force to the crank shaft.
Some of the force also powers the compression stroke, but that’s the same on any engine, except normally the forces are transmitted through the crank.
@@JPEight - Roger that. Yes I see that now. Thanks.
The outer Pistons are pulling the single piston rod upwards and the inner pistons Are pushing downwards both push and pull brings the same power which converts into rotation of the crankshaft
Actually their might be an advantage.
I'd have to model it.. But it does look like 2nd order vibrations are cancelled out.
Effectively the velocity of the pistons moving up the bore are directly tied to the pistons moving down negating the deceleration mismatch in the bottom 180 deg of crank rotation from the accelerating pistons in the top half of the bore ( top 180 deg ) of crank rotation...
On bigger 4 piston engines this might negate the need for counter rotating balance shafts.
However this might account for the power loss, as the burn rate on the outside pistons will have a different profile from the inner two pistons.
Interesting never the less.
What an accomplished man! I am not a mechanical engineer but have a strong interest in engine design and feel the radial design shows the most initial commercial success although just about any reasonably practical design can be made good if enough money is thrown at it. I think it is so difficult to get away from existing designs from a build cost / power output basis and of course all the emissions rules. I hope this man will still bless us with his design ideas.
This is genius! The main connecting rod is always being pushed and pulled in a direction that never sees heavy force, the fulcrum con rod is pulling it up on its up stroke, and pushing it down on its down stroke. According to this animation. The force it sees is at an absolute minimum. Which this set up the only thing that could be weak is are the mains and rod bearings but being so few would be easy to keep lubricated. Bloody brilliant.
This is one of those engines that will be almost forgotten but in like 100 years someone re-discovers it and brings it back 👏👏👍this is an amazing concept and inovation and the fact that he did it on his own is even more amazing
I’m still waiting for for someone to bring back the Napier Deltic.
At least we’ve got stuff like the connaught v10 to be excited about.
Not really, this is just classic german over engineering that doesn't actually make the performance any better.. If anything it just makes it more liable to break.
Hell almost all gas engines will be all but forgotten by then. That is provided we don't kill mankind clean off the face of earth by then.
The most stressful point on a connecting rod is not the combustion stroke, it is the exhaust / intake transition, where the forces accelerating the piston are felt as tension across the cross section of the small end. This design moves the bulk of those stresses from the single con rod to the twin mini con rods. The real durability issue would be across the smaller cross section of the small end of these mini con rods. It can do nothing but lower the overall durability when compared to a conventional 4 stroke.
Exactly, metal is ALWAYS much weaker in tension than compression. Plus adding power strokes that transmit the force via tension is just asking for trouble.
That’s not the most stressful, it’s being his neighbor. 😂😂😂
How about the flex in the “side” rockers? If you run any compression the piston will his the head at TDC of the breathing strokes due to beam flex and rod stretch. This isn’t new and isn’t a good idea. It was called a walking beam engine a hundred years ago, it was a failure then and still a bad idea now. Also, anybody want to calculate the stress on that single big end? How strong it would have to be to pass all the power of a V-8 through one big end and one set of mains? The WWII radial aircraft engines passed all the power of a “row” of cylinders through a single rod, true, but they seldom spun over 3K rpm. Oh yeah, they also had guys like my father rebuilding them after (relatively to a street car) very few hours of operation.
@@GlutenEruption metal is stronger in tension actually, why do you think bridge cables are made of steel?
Your channel is severely underrated. I hope you get the support you deserve!
This cylinder design basically changes a V8 to the crankshaft dynamics of a 2 cylinder steam engine. with power stokes acting on every extension and retreaction of the two con rods (a power stroke every quarter turn). Ultimatly I belive it didn't take off since it doesn't really provide any benifit over a standard V8 design, since it doesn't reduce the number of moving parts or the complexity of machining the engine block. it is an interesting mechanism, but not much more. Obvs props to the inventor, hopefully he continues his development, and will eventually create something that genuinly can be used to improve ICEs in the future.
I remember hearing about the Stern idea awhile back which was interesting but ultimately too complex for real usability. Somehow this one slipped under the radar for me, and at least as an engineering exercise goes, is the more interesting one to follow. Provided materials are up to par, the exciting bit is it's significantly smaller packaging envelope potential. I can't see it being equal regardless of cylinder count on torque potential, but having a full blown 8 cylinder engine in a bike that takes a portion of the room as an I4 with perhaps less material weight overall is intriguing to say the least.
Very clever man, fantastic engineering skills
It seems like one big advantage is you have an eight-cylinder engine with a crank as short as a v-twin. Less worries about torsional stiffness.
More worrying about the system disintegrating before generating a significant specific power.
The Ducati V2 twin desmo is a fantastic engine, and a torque wizard, that lacks power.
A solution that reduces the power further, adding weight, cost and complexity, for how ingenuous, is completely useless.
I see high reciprocating mass gains, as well as total engine size, and an increase in parts. Neat, but not used because fewer parts = fewer failures, less weight, reduced production time, etc…
I remember seeing an arrangement like that in b&w photos in a book…
I've *heard* of that ghipsy engine but that's it. This is all beyond bizarre! Props for somehow finding AND 3D model animating this!
Hadn't heard hide nor hair of this engine before, but what an interesting take! Like Honda's oval piston design which was meant to mimic the advantages of a V-8 in a GP bike, Wirthwein's engine may not be an advance over the typical piston engine, but it's genius anyway. It also might lead someday to a practical and superior engine to what we have now. Interesting engineer and a well-done video.
Seriously cool! I am constantly amazed by the sheer variety of designs for IC engines.
But, big oil like to smash them because they like oil and gas being used up.
Amazing.
Very complex - I wonder about longevity - but this is a brilliant bit of engineering.
The fact that it even works is proof of latent potential.
My initial thoughts on this is that the decrease in Mass from removing the extra Conrods could result in a slight efficiency improvement.
God bless this dude! Making the most of his life!
when the steam engine came up on the end of it's useful life, the engineers tried everything to keep them relevant. The ICE engine is at that point today. It was an amazing device when you think that it is a machine that moves us around by using explosive liquid and it does it so quietly that we do not think of the explosions but like steam, explosive propulsion is on it's last legs. We do not need any more iterations of the ICE. We are moving on from there. Steam was great and ICE was great and hats off to both of them. They both get a statue in the square.
This feels like an innovative solution to a problem that doesn't exist... a very interesting concept.
The 2 problems i can see is the sound and vibrations of low end single cylinder engines... 4 cylinder engines always sound good.. and cancel out vibrations.
@@swapnilmankame Yes, but you could just make a four cylinder engine.
I'm not sure it saves that much space, and if you're willing to go to such extremes because of packaging constraints, a 90° V4 is also balanced, and sounds incredible.
I have a Honda Magna V30 I'm in the middle of fixing up and it has to have my favorite engine sound _of all time._
It makes me wish my four wheeled Honda felt half as alive... even if it meant requiring major engine repair to reach 230k. I would replace piston rings _myself_ for that beautiful little V4 to live on and make someone else happy for a while. If old ironsleeves loses compression, I'll dig its grave.
You'd think the engine with a brain would act more alive. I guess a carburetor can't go senile.
Seems like a very smooth 4 cylinder.
Engine would be great for the uk market where if you don't have your full licence you can only do 94bhp with a restrictor
I believe this engineer is building engines for his personal fulfillment. He is obviously a person of great skills, but he is operating outside the industrial design complex; should his engines have merit, and they well could, there is no possibility for a recognition. Internal combustion engines are the most optimised devices in the world, so any improvement does require expensive test equipment - only available to industrial complexes.
Well done!
May be, seen the way the engine is laid out, it is possible to computerise the valves control, and utilise the power cycle which cause traction on the conrods, by recirculating the exhaust gases in the adjacent couple of cylinders - so to extract a 1 - 2 % more efficiency from the engine...
One disavantage is the almost doubling of the distance from crankshaft to piston. Very tall enginge.
Not great for packaging but long rods bring their own advantages like lower thrust forces on the piston and more equal acceleration of the piston at the top and bottom halves of the stroke.
to all rhose whining about too much stress on one rod, it was pointed out that since only one piston is ever firing, its not that much more stress than a regular setup.
Ikr? I've never understood why many people are keen to dive into a comments section and make themselves look foolish before watching the video.
The most interesting takeaway from this is the potential to add cylinders and displacement to smaller engines by driving multiple pistons off each existing con-rod. It's probably too expensive to bring to market as it would be easy to swap an entire engine as it would be to retrofit this system
I don't see how the packaging can be much smaller than the same pistons on a conventional crankshaft
@@Jo-rz6bs It's not that the packaging would be any smaller but it would allow you to add cylinders to small v engines/single cylinders.
I have total respect for what the guy has done, but I feel sorry for the neighbours, they have to listen to the loud motor noise. He should probably do it somewhere else.
That’s brilliant, just goes to show that not all engines are designed by hundreds of experts, just a guy in a shed!! Well done to him.
Yes, just one expert this time…
Man... somebody invest in this dude. I am blown away.
The first rule in engineering is KISS , and most engineers know what that stands for! Great that the idea works, but just because you can, doesn't mean you should!!
Something the German engineers forgot. You want over engineered, buy a German bike or car.
@@kolsen6330 Agree, I have BMW motor bike, and it is definitely over engineered, but then again , all modern motor cycles are the same, far too much unnecessary and expensive technology in them. Can no one design something simple anymore? apparently not!
Engines with rockers have been successful before, look at the Commer/Rootes TS3 3 cylinder 6 piston two stroke diesel from the 1950s. These engines really proved the concept but 2 strokes are too hard to comply with current emissions.
Two stroke petrols using crankcase compression yes, but two stroke diesels do not use crankcase compression so emissions are the same as four stroke diesels, they use a blower to push the air in so any overlap of intake/ exhaust timing its just air that gets blown out, which by diluting the gases reduces the measured emissions!, there have been petrol two stroke designs that use a secondary piston for air flow negating the need for oil in the fuel and these have emissions the same as four strokes, but at greater complexity and expense than a traditional two stroke design, whatever you do you never get something for nothing!.
I would have thought it would have been lighter .. I’m so happy someone is still developing a combustion engine .. long live
Interesting idea. On the geared cam drive for the radial: all the WWII radial aircraft engines that used cams to actuate valves* had reduction geared camshafts. Often they were geared to 1 turn to the 4 for the crankhshaft, 1:4. They could do this because the cam rings were quite large, and by spinning the cam so slowly, they could make use of really aggressive cam profiles.
*the exception being the sleeve-valve engines, which didn't use cam-actuated poppet valves, at all. Reliable though being monstrously complex, they didn't offer any real adantages over poppet valves.
if you built the lower end of the engine much smaller since there is only 1 rod bearing journal to support and enclose with the engine block your saving a lot of weight from not having a full crankshaft and not having a full engines length of supporting metal on the engine block compared to a typical engine with four rod bearing journals. so honeslty this engine should be quite a bit lighter for its given power output similar to a rotory engine while still functioning mostly the same as a normal reciprocating piston engine. so in an application like aircraft where the weight of the engine might matter more than the absolute power of the engine this might be advantageous. and if a highly developed version of this engine did indeed have identical power to an equivelent engine with a normal crankshaft then this is superior due to lower weight.
Being in that wheelchair, part of his body is inactive, but that area between his ears is "climbing a mountain" and contributing to the world of ingenious mechanisms/machines...Very interesting what active minds come up with...So many minds have been paralyzed by passive entertainment...
it has more friction points than a conventional engine, so basically it was a novelty design.
Classic german over engineering that makes it more likely to fail.
Exactly what i was thinking. Clever, but a dead end.
But the total surface feet per minute of bearing surfaces is greatly reduced.
@@Eluderatnight Exactly, it's not the number of surfaces, it's the surface feet per minute and also force. So the side-loading of the pistons is potentially significantly reduced (see my top-level comment) as another factor as well as reduced bearing area.
But less side friction between the piston and cylinder, less reciprocating mass and less loss to vibration.
Declaring this design worse without tests and based on a single point at face value amongst many is in my opinion quite arrogant
Very interesting idea. And an impressive range of modified engines. Could be a long lost brother of Allen Milliard.
Amazing. I love the first honda prototype, it sounds so good
Fairly certain this reduces a huge amount of rotational mass of the crankshaft since there is only one crank journal and set of counterweights. The rocker arms look smaller than the size of connecting rods, so there is some mass savings there as well. The Achilles heal of this design is the Y shaped con-rod though, as forces are no longer transmitted directly down the rod, but across a lever arm at the central joint. This will most likely fatigue over time, and is the main reason why this engine isn't suitable for production. If this conrod was converted into two, then that is the best of all both worlds, as you can have cylinders that partially hang out over the crank case, which also saves significant weight. I think he should remake this engine with the piston rockers, this time with two internal crank journals centered on each of the two innermost pistons, 2 and 3.
Edit: After observing the overlap of the rocker and rod at the piston connection, this isn't feasible either. I'm sure he already thought of that, and that's the reason why this engine shows no promise of improving on.
I see other issues as well. He's introduced another plane of movement which will create different harmonic vibrations to deal with. The very short length of the rocker connecting rods means they would be at an extreme angle and see high side loads at the bottom of the stroke. This would also require longer piston skirts for durability, especially for high revving motors, which removes some of the mass savings and adds to vibration.
That certainly is a fascinating arrangement of the two outboard pistons and connecting rods. Maybe just being unconventional is enough to stop further development.
Wow, this guy is amazing. He really didn’t have a key fob in his life even after this hard throwback that you suffer. Go on dieter!
awesome proof of concept, if anything.
Be interesting to get some valve area from all that additional space that is now available, And having the push/pull should allow for an interesting power delivery. Looks like a lot of potential in that concept, for the automotive , snowmobile, even boat world. Simply because of all the additional area for moving air now available.
First time heard about this engine. Quite interesting design and what a great mind and engineer to build all the other engines, bikes, etc.
one advantage is that there should be less friction between piston and cylinder since piston goes up and down and almost no other forces are involved (at least for outer cylinders). also i guess it could be lighter in a similar way like radial engines are lighter.
Depends on length of the rockers vs stroke length vs mini rod length.
If the mini-rods and rockers are short then the angle of the mini-rod will be higher than a normal engine.
Same for normal engine, short rods compared to stroke makes for a lot or piston wear and more non-linear piston travel speed, but makes for a smaller lighter engine. Everything is a trade off.
@@JPEight yes but outer cylinders only use rockers so i think those would have less friction as forces do work differently than rods. maybe?
I think that there are little or no advantages to that single rod engine. There is about the same amount of friction and the torsion is just moved to different points of the crankcase making the engine more top heavy.
This is awesome! We might need to talk about about what a "lawnmower" is, though. 😆
I think 4cyls just always sound great. Just picked up a cb400 for my 2nd bike 😍😍😍
Actually their might be an advantage.
I'd have to model it.. But it does look like 2nd order vibrations are cancelled out.
Effectively the velocity of the pistons moving up the bore are directly tied to the pistons moving down negating the deceleration mismatch in the bottom 180 deg of crank rotation from the accelerating pistons in the top half of the bore ( top 180 deg ) of crank rotation...
On bigger 4 piston engines this might negate the need for counter rotating balance shafts.
However this might account for the power loss, as the burn rate on the outside pistons will have a different profile from the inner two pistons.
Interesting never the less.
maybe start with two cylinders. i dont see any benefits from going full blown 4 with your project.
@@MrUnderEstimated and have 2 cylinders moving up and down at the same time? That makes no sense. This design is exclusive for 4 cylinder engines.
@@firyxx your thought of my recommendation makes no sense. Obviously not.
The main issue with the engine from the thumbnail is that the power is being transferred through one single connecting rod instead of 4. It does make the rotating assembly much more simple, and probably more reliable due to less moving parts and simple to produce. And if there is a lubrication problem and your rod bearings get destroyed and it throws the rod, then you’re basically screwed because that’s the only rod
A 1966 Honda 161cc 2 cylinder 4 stroke engine produced 16.5 HP.
This engine is making less than 1/4 that, and if it's developed to make more, all energy is ultimately directed thru only one rod bearing.
Got to be some vibration issues as the short rod cylinders have a different rod angle than the center main rod. Also piston dwell time at TDC and bdc are different between the cylinders. I admire his work but he hasn't really reduced the parts count just moved the outer rods from direct crankshaft connection to indirect via the main rod. In fact there are 2 added spots for wear and friction, those being the fulcrum between the outer cylinders.
He got it to run, although it sounds a bit lumpy, I think it was something to pass the time.
I like the neighbours window bit, He's doing gods work - now to the design - I like it, I know in aircraft you want More power but this is Light power.
A single big end to Explode at 10,000 feet makes me feel just so much better, I mean if you build the crank right it's going to hang on and if you balance the 4 out by making it an 8 it's even better. I like the design and if we ever got to sit in a workshop for a week or two I think it would be exciting.
What a great bloke, I love your work Dieter.
If I understood correctly the causes of second order vibration in a straight four, this design can solve it, since all the pistons have the same acceleration.
Seems like it would put a great deal of stress on that one or 2 crank bearings and would need to have them replaced often. It would probably be more practical for racing than daily drivers. I'd like to see how complicated those components are to maintenance.
pretty cool design, thanks for sharing!
I think it will make a great X engine the crankshaft will be much simple and will be perfect for planes.
People should really look at this motor. It is a work of art.. Who knows what this motor can really do . we might see this in years to come . I think he's really on to something big and better and cheaper than the other brands out there.
Undoubtedly, Unique, and very original.
Incredible talented man, a true mechanical engineer…and biker !!!
Really like my Korean made gold top. Also play USA Fender J and P basses so they act as good benchmarks. I think the Epi can easily hold its own against the P, but the J does have a wider tonal range as expected from the 2 PUs. Issues: it has pretty pronounced neck dive but swapping for lightweight tuners can help. The strap button location at the neck heel instead of on the upper bout also contributes to poor balance. Glossy neck is sticky but light sanding with 1000 grit paper fixes that. I also swapped the pretty ordinary 3 point bridge for a Hipshot and now have a brilliant looking, great sounding hollow body bass.
Such a shame that such a great mind will never get to experience his genius. True Innovator. Somebody help this man develop something to be able to give his projects a ride
Ingenious minds pushing boundaries , exploring improbable tangents.
I am totally fascinated by his work! Makes me want to get off my lazy butt and create something new.
I have not seen this before, very cool.. It introduces a lot of pivot points, all subject to wear..
Now that is a very interesting concept.
Thanks for sharing!
Impressive. Impressive. Impressive,
It's incredibly impressive...
I'm concerned about the mini conrods per cylinder. For 1 direction of cylinder movement (up or down), it sways left and right. I'm afraid if it easily break.
This is similar to the Pendulum Engine, which had such low friction it used no oil. It was adapted & it's used in air compressors, oxygen pumps can produce clean air for medical/hospital/scuba
Amazing! Hopefully it is offered by Ducati or some company. I have to wonder if it isn’t progressing simply because electrics these days are undeniably great and are just going to takeover. This has great appeal but maybe too niche because the market is shrinking. RC industry serves as example of what will happen. Piston power once was king but now is niche.
This is amazing! What a bloke!
At the cost of adding more moving parts you could add connecting rods on the outer two and still utilize the constant power throughout up and down. You could also overlap them to make a V10 with only 6 connecting rods. I say this because the transfer of momentum also benefits from having more mass e.g. using a larger socket solving the problem of a stubborn nut or bolt.
Thank you for sharing another very interesting video! I've heard about these engines before, but not in depth like you explain. Thank you!
Wont there be Huge Loading issues on horizontal con rods and those mid beam bearings???
its a lovely sounding engine
The acceleration loads of the Piston and Con Rods is GREATER than the loads from combustion at normal driving speeds.
Do a search on the amount of different designs it took to finally get an airplane off the ground safely. LIterally dozens and dozens of ideas that faild. However, in the end air flight is very common. This is how innovative change comes to be. A lot of people building their crazy ideas into what is hopefully a working model. When this happens our world changes forever. 😊
Has it ever struck anyone to stretch this design out to an inline 6? It would fix a lot of the harmonic issues I believe, and surely with a bottom end system that has less of a sharp innertial moment on a lot of its components, I would think it would be a matter of balancing or and putting on a good cylinder head? If it's more mechanically efficient, it should inherently make more power. I think ALL of his power loss comes down to cylinder head and valvetrain geometry
Wow that's a very smart person. It's just so cool to have an idea and actually make the invention I'm sure you have to have money for that. So I'm glad this person had the brains and the money to do it so more power to you Mr. DIETER..
As a Honda guy I have never felt so much anxiety looking at this design
That was pretty damn good
That’s actually pretty awesome 😎
I would argue that the orange and intermediate grey parts are all connecting rods, so this 4-cylinder engine has a total of 11 connecting rods forming a linkage to a single crank pin.
lol, i dont have to imagine being that neighbor. i live by a lake in Texas, i have two neighbors with giant fanboats theyre always tinkering with. they are incredibly loud.
Very interesting and entertaining. Thank you.
How cool. I'd like to see it as a two stroke
Seems like this design would allow for faster, more aggressive acceleration and deceleration. Interesting stuff 👍
That’s really ingenious
Interesting concept. I would be most worried about the bell-crank bearings.
My thoughts exactly
it's under load going up and down so yeah....
@@MrUnderEstimated The bellcrank bearings are really only loaded as a piston is pushed down, which puts that into the weakest part of the bearing. The connecting rod bearings however, are loaded in both directions.
@@haunter_1845 cylinder 1 and 4 combustion cycle pulls the cylinder 2 and 3 up.
@@MrUnderEstimated Yes, but the bearings in the center of the bellcrank are being loaded downward during all stages of the cycle. The connecting rod bearing at the crankshaft is the one seeing forces in both directions.
Its cool i wonder about crankshaft balance fore and aft. Alot of linkages but they can be reliable like wristpins. He is a mechanical genius for sure.
I see the main Conrod experiencing an alternating side loading.
Yes I don't like that. The force vector is at an angle to the crank, so the inner pistons will be seeing a sideways thrust as well as the conventional thrust forces from a conrod. A great deal of care would need to be taken with clearances to ensure there is no binding of either pistons or rod bearing as the engine heats up
Need to send one of these engines to Garage 54 to put it through their tests.
Good idea
Would be interesting to see if it has less internal friction than conventional engine. With more funding to conrod geometry it could have lot less moving mass, better balance and harmonics, more efficient. It would be real nice to see large manufacturer put down a sum of money to develop this.
What about the sideways stresses on the connecting arm? Those would alternate between sides on every full loop.
I think that, since the two outer most pistons serves mainly to generate a force to compress the piston middle pistons, they could be smaller, tunned to generate the right amount of compressed force.
That would certainly increase it's efficiency
But then you might sacrifice the engine balance by doing so.