My first go around happened around hour 8. I began pushing the throttle and announcing intentions before my instructor had a chance it call it. I watched a lot of videos and spent even more time in my Sim to know my landing wasn't right. Since then I've had others in which I wonder if I really needed to go around or not. Watching videos like this really makes me glad that I did.
Sometimes . . . you don't get to make the best choice. When that happens you need to make the least bad choice. Instantly. It happens in driving, medicine, construction, life.
Third solo on July 5th 2018 at LHZ. Base to final stall spin. Laned in the woods. Nose down into a pine tree dead center and split the tree in half, all the way to the ground. Trees on both sides caught the wings and stopped me about 1 ft above the ground. Jesus spared my life that day. Should have died! Scratched my knee on dashboard, walked away. When plane was removed from the woods, as soon as trees were cut away, the whole plane fell apart. Finally finished certificate in June of 2020, but so thankful to be alive and to have learned from the accident.
@phillp7777 your time will come! And of course they knew. They were on seen the day after and for debrief. Made me a better pilot and I pray you don't find yourself in a situation you have not prepared for!
@phillp7777 I was very encouraged by the FAA, whom one of the inspectors shared the fact that he almost died in a engine out and broke several bones in his body. The fact that Richard Mc Spaddin can die in an airplane doing a maneuver that he himself taught should tell you, that On any given day, when your time to die comes, it will not matter your skill level!
@@mauriceevans6546Don’t listen to the haters. We all make mistakes, we are human. If anything, you are more experienced than most now. in that you are probably more intimately familiar with the factors that go into a base to final stall spin than most pilots. The vast majority of pilots do not survive it, as you know. I’m glad you shared your story and know that it is valuable experience that has improved your skills.
Mike, while as tragic as that example was, it’s a powerful lesson to learn for any pilot or pilot to be. Thanks for sharing this important information.
I fly a PA28-161 in my academy. They LOVE to fly and float to the very last second. It’s very easy with new students to enter a dangerous oscillation. You really just have to maintain ground effect until the bird decides to land. Any attempt at flaring before will get you back in the air and smash back down. Other than that, it’s a very forgiving bird. I will always love it as I learned to fly in it.
Glad to hear Marcie is okay. We all make mistakes. It's why we are taught to, "Hold the aircraft off, hold it off, hold it off..." until it lands. Even experienced pilots sometimes come over the threshold a little faster than we planned due to our own error or a change in wind, and of course misjudging the flare. Then there is also some ground effect on hotter days. These things cause us to fly down the runway a bit longer than we planned and it isn't fun when this happens, but patience and humility is key. If you are uncomfortable with the distance or you feel the airplane is going back up, not to mention a change in the wind... then push it forward and go around. The extra tenth or two of an hour in your logbook isnt a bad thing!
Good points Mike. There are some good principals in "Stick and Rudder" that unfortunately have not carried over in first Practical Test Standards and now Airmen Certification Standards. We now tend to focus on V-speeds and standardization of response/recovery rather than how to fly in the first place. Had the lady flying the Cirrus just understood what the airplane wanted to do, often asked by Wolfgang, she would have allowed the nose to go down in any steep turn at low altitude. A turn of any bank angle will be a 1 g turn if we release the back pressure on the stick. Understanding the "law of the roller coaster" would make some go arounds less dangerous and less fatal. Without zoom reserve we shouldn't pitch up. Neither Vx nor Vy is appropriate with thousands of feet of runway ahead of us. Get zoom reserve airspeed first. No not a number. Just assurance that the airplane will go up nicely and we have airspeed with which to maneuver if the engine quits. We generally, by Airmen standards, fly too slow to be able to maneuver on takeoff and we fly too fast to actually land. Vso has nothing to do with landing. It is an out of ground effect airspeed. "All slowed up and ready to squat," is an in ground effect condition (sorry no number.) The Cherokee prop strike could not happen had she been all slowed up and ready to squat. That means the yoke would have been full back. Everything we have been taught is legal and correct, but mostly is poor energy management. It is if then, however, and not a principal. If stall, dump nose. On takeoff at Vx or Vy pitch attitude after three seconds startle to realize the engine has failed is no useful V-speed. It is stall, and planned recovery practice at altitude is no help. Staying in ground effect until zoom reserve airspeed and pitching to safely over obstructions rather than hundreds of feet over obstructions and even down drainage egress is good energy management. Deceleration enough to sink enough to bring the throttle into dynamic control of glide angle and rate of descent, rather than long hold off, is good energy management and prevents prop strikes and even late and dangerous go arounds. And you are right, above, if too fast we have to be patient and hold off and eventually we will decelerate enough to be, "all slowed up and ready to squat."
i had a flight that porpused 3 times in a PA-28 i was trying to force the landing, i was too fast. asfte the 3rd bounce i hit the throttle and took off. no prop strike but it was getting progressivly worse with each bounce. had i not done that it would have been a crash. what i learned? air speed and decent rate. i found an rpm setting that made my approches much easier and stable. now i grease every landing.
My club has had 3 prop strikes on tow planes, and all 3 have been high time, experienced pilots. Two were pilots doing things they probably shouldn't have been doing, one was a dust devil that picked up the tail on takeoff.
Kind of like being in the middle of a 8 lane highway and having to get over for an exit in a 1/4 mile. Your better and safer waiting until you have a safe easy access to the exit without a bunch of traffic to deal with or in the runway case anything that feels off or "not perfect" for the approach. Anxiety can make you do funny things. Better off being in any situation feeling relaxed and positive.
You saying it’s better to get over early but if you DO leave it too late, continue to the next exit and go back? Better to do an extra X-miles, than to die or worse still, kill someone else. I agree.
It's not just a PIO that can mess up a landing, it can also be something like a sudden strong crosswind gust. Now, I frequently fly into airports with quite long runways so instead of a full go-around I can add power, gain 5 or 10 feet, than reduce, flare and do it again. But like you say you should have some experience under your belt before doing anything but a standard go-around which (hopefully) you train for until proficiency.
Pilot Induced Oscillation. She 3-pointed it and didn't flare enough. I've had bouncers when I first learned, transitioning to the 172 from the Warrior- the spring steel gear is not as forgiving as a strut. I tell my students after the second bounce don't try to save it, power up and go around.
You probably should teach them to go-around on the first bounce. For one, depending on the magnitude of the bounce, the second hit could be the one where the firewall buckles and the prop strikes. Second, Soon you will be flying an airliner I imagine. Most jets the spoilers deploy on the initial bounce and trying to reset a flare after the bounce can be catastrophic. I fly the MD-11 for a major cargo airline and bouncing is an automatic go-around due to multiple fatalities and wrecks for failing to do so.
I'm flying a sundowner with bouncy gear. Have porpoised it couple of times leaning it. Yup full throttle and go around!! Glad I did it while in training with instructor. Now I know. Dont try to save the landing!
I saw that video on that accident that was sad.I would just tell the tower I cant do that and I want to divert to a smaller less busy airport.A low to the ground steep turn can result in a tip stall and spin right into the ground.
There's no shame in going around I haven't flown for over 9 mths because of a back injury and I definitely will be get a few lessons just to make sure that I'm ok ,I don't want to put myself or anyone else in danger.
I think we all remember being a new pilot and being a little too concerned with the perfect landing and/or having to go around. Like the entire world is watching us and judging our landings, or at a controlled airport, worried about what a controller/atc might think or have to deal with because of the go-around? I'm curious... do any instructors out there work on over coming this with students? Such as constantly pushing the throttle forward over the threshold for no reason but to do a go around.
Some planes… If you approach a few knots too fast… Forcing the plane to land will get a bounce. Trying to control the landing again the next bounce gets bigger. The third bounce, noticeably larger still, often breaks the nose gear, with a prop strike. Going around always cures the problem…. Don’t wait for the third bounce! Engine tear down and replacement prop and mechanic to make it happen… 10s of thousands of dollars and weeks if not months to make it happen. The most simple prop strike can be somebody accidentally bumping into the prop with their car… A low power prop strike is much better than a high power prop strike. The forces on the internal engine parts are tremendous… Embrace the go around! It can be your best financial friend…. 😃
Absolutely. Just let the ground effect take care of you, HOLD IT until the bird comes down by itself. This is especially important in Cherokees, those birds want to stay in the air.
Great video definitely helps along the journey how is the student that had the prop strike their confidence to continue hopefully all good thanks for sharing!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So far no prop strikes. My plane went to the shop to have the alternator fixed. In July we had TS that broke 3 planes near mine loose and they hit other planes. Mechanics feared my prop had been struck by the runaways. He was unsure because my constant speed prop still worked fine. They mechanic removed my prop and did a measurement of my crank shaft roundness, I am fine. They almost grounded my plane and sent my engine in for an IRAN, it only has 150 hours on it.
PIO- Pilot Induced Oscillation pretty common, there even was a Boeing 757 that did this recently and bent the airplane behind the cabin door and wing root. Total loss. This was an accidental feature built in the Cessna 177 Cardinal until modified with slotted stabilator. Go around would have saved the engine and prop.
As a Cardinal owner for the last 11 years, permit me to offer a clarification on the Cardinal stabilator. It was NOT an accidental design feature. The controls on the Cardinal were purposely made lighter and more effective in all axes compared to the Cessna 172, the airplane the Cardinal was designed to replace. Testing during certification did not reveal any problems, but that changed when the general public got their ham-fists on the "new" 172 and flew it as such. But the Cardinal requires a much lighter touch and the results were broken nose gears and bent firewalls when pilots pulled and shoved on the yoke in the flare like they did in the 172. The slots were added to reduce the chance of a stabilator stall when the yoke was abruptly snatched back in the flare, which resulted in loss of pitch control and the airplane nosing over close to the runway. The ratio of yoke movement to stabilator movement was also changed during the first three years of production to accommodate those who couldn't fly with a light touch. I find the Cardinal a delight to fly (compared to other Cessnas), provided you fly with your finger tips. Google AvWeb's excellent article "Unfairly Maligned Airplanes" for more history and old wives tales re: the Cardinal.
I'm not an instructor however I think the core lesson of flying should be that a plane is a glider. So a landing can be seen as the end of a glide with power to idle on approach. The engine is for flying, not for landing. I get the impression that landings are consistently taught with power on the engine in which case it's very easy to have enough power to continue to fly. The engine has no business being on during landing. That becomes more pronounced the better glider a plane is. If it's a brick like a cessna it can waste engine power and still land but a good glider can have virtually no engine power on for landing. So ditch the engine. A stabilized approach includes engine to idle. Let it sink naturally onto the runway. And porpoising should be explicitly shown to the student pilot as a concept rather than assume it is intuited. I get the sense that a lot of teaching assumes practice will teach theory somehow without saying it and that's a mistake. A plane is foremost a glider. That should be the core mantra. That can also tell you that low flying is very dangerous and staying high is safer. Because it is a glider. And gliding from the ground is difficult. You can always go around but that should not be seen as a substitute for understanding what a landing is. I figure that going around is virtually never necessary. Even in a microburst. If a microburst slams you into the ground you better stay down because the plane can be too damaged to go around and if it doesn't slam you into the ground then you can land anyway. If you set up for landing with idle power then there is very little reason to go around. You need crab, you need rudder, you need to pull back quickly if there is a momentary downwash but otherwise it will cushion down to the ground with no real chance of bouncing. Hold appropriate glide speed and angle of course. Stall is not your friend.
I saw a plane go around 4times she was low on fuel so she switched to her reserve there was something wrong with the tank plane stalled so if u r low on fuel i sugest 20min before u see the airport switch to your reserve so if theres a problem u can fix it she died cause of this
After my first solo, I went out a couple days later to fly solo again. I proceeded to porpoise the airplane on the first lap around the pattern. My instructor never covered the topic of porpoising. If I had not watched LewDix Aviation's video the night before, I probably would have had a prop strike: ruclips.net/video/HTRtJRWloEA/видео.htmlsi=uGalwG2PTZifFRIu As soon as it happened, I went full power, slowly retracted the flaps, and went around. I was scared and lacking confidence, but the next approach I got it down safely and continued my pattern practice. I only have 120 hours and 455 landings under my belt so far. Any approach or landing that I feel is not stable/controlled, I will always go around. I've forced a few sketchy landings before...never again. It's just not worth it.
Doesn't seem like the approach was bad. Going to fast and not enough flare to bleed speed. Then when oscillating starts , just hold yoke back and keep it there.
Hey Bud, I recommend taking this video down, or at least removing the name of the person who had the prop strike. No need to name and shame this poor person.
Thank you for this video. It is a good training video and reminder to all of us. Looking at your plane in the landing video I thought it was both fast and flat. There was no evidence of flair but, driving onto the runway. Re : the second plane ; I had two immediate thoughts, 1) was the altimeter correctly set ? 2) On final, why didn't the the pilot consider a forward slip to drop altitude before hitting the end of the runway. I think the tower should have kept the same person on the line until the plane was down or the decision to go elsewhere was made. Things seemed too rushed and that sadly led to forgetting the basics and a crash. Again thank you for the video. As you said, a pilot's license is a license to learn. All the best, Hal
Never feel bad if you do a go around. You can always Try again. Fly the plane first always. When starting your go around, establish positive climb then let the tower know your intentions. Positive control at all times. Former COMM, CFI AGI 5000+ HRS. PIC means your are the boss.
The pilot that crashed was completely incompetent. I don’t know how someone likes that gets a license. It is very sad to be sure, but this was in no way on ATC.
No one is blaming ATC. The point is as PIC, it is perfectly okay to request for a different option or just say negative. ATC doesn’t have the final say, the Pilot does.
@@mojogrip I agree the PIC needs to never forget that they are PIC. However, your opening comment about the pilot “did everything asked of her” made it sound like it wasn’t her fault she crashed. In fact, she didn’t do everything asked of her. She was “asked” to land several times and was unable to do so. She clearly was not in command of the airplane and could not do simple things like establish an appropriate glide path to the runway. The saddest part of this is that at least one instructor signed her off for a flight ride and at least one DE passed her.
@Navy1977 A competent pilot doesn’t fly an approach that gets them at the runway 200’ or more too high … and then repeats that mistake. And a competent pilot doesn’t let ATC fly their airplane. I don’t care how many mistakes ATC makes, they will never crash my airplane.
@Navy1977 One only has to listen to the audio to know the facts that matter. The NTSB is a political organization. Their analyses are seldom useful and often wrong and they almost never issue recommendations in their final reports, which means they seldom fulfill their mission. And I never said I was offering anything other than my opinion, so get over yourself.
The background in "Marcie's Prop Strike" in N4132J (2001 Piper PA-28-140) footage didn't look like North Carolina landscape. A simple search finds this footage is from 2017, the landing taking place at the Ramona, CALIFORNIA Airport. Your narrative over this footage infers that is your student that incurred the prop strike. As far as ATC, stop presenting the PIC/ATC relationship as a battle over who flies the aircraft.
I thought the same thing at first, but I believe he's stating one of his students had a prop strike, and he's showing video examples of prop strikes, but Mike never said his student was in any of the videos, is a little bit confusing.
Too fast or too high, go around, as porpoising isn't a good thing and get real expensive, really quickly. The crash, that's a classic case of forgetting the most important thing. Aviate, navigate, communicate. In that order. She forgot the aviate and navigate, tragically. It's my airplane, because it's my fat ass up there, so if I get comms suggesting suicide, that's a double helping of nope.
any prop strike.that engine stops suddenly....engine seizes up..if yur lucky thats all. Would never want you rent or fky that plane ever ever , if knew that was on its record logbooks doubt much any a&p gonna be able fix repair that again even if IA signs off as airworthy.. screw it. Why take chance w shaky bad engine seized up from prop strike. no way.. just like car engine seizes up... engine is screwed forever.
Painfull to watch.. this is the instructors fault in allowing the student to landing flat.. if the instructor insisted on full stall or close to full stall landings, this never would have happened. I see pilots all the time allowing a 3 point landing with nosewheel aircraft. No need to go around after the first bounce or two.. all they had to do was ease the yoke back and keep the nose off the ground a little longer.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
My first go around happened around hour 8. I began pushing the throttle and announcing intentions before my instructor had a chance it call it. I watched a lot of videos and spent even more time in my Sim to know my landing wasn't right. Since then I've had others in which I wonder if I really needed to go around or not. Watching videos like this really makes me glad that I did.
Sometimes . . . you don't get to make the best choice. When that happens you need to make the least bad choice. Instantly. It happens in driving, medicine, construction, life.
Third solo on July 5th 2018 at LHZ. Base to final stall spin. Laned in the woods. Nose down into a pine tree dead center and split the tree in half, all the way to the ground. Trees on both sides caught the wings and stopped me about 1 ft above the ground. Jesus spared my life that day. Should have died! Scratched my knee on dashboard, walked away. When plane was removed from the woods, as soon as trees were cut away, the whole plane fell apart. Finally finished certificate in June of 2020, but so thankful to be alive and to have learned from the accident.
omg u still got approved for a ppl cert ? Did FAA know u had almost fatal destroyed a plane prior ?
just smfh
@phillp7777 your time will come! And of course they knew. They were on seen the day after and for debrief. Made me a better pilot and I pray you don't find yourself in a situation you have not prepared for!
@phillp7777 I was very encouraged by the FAA, whom one of the inspectors shared the fact that he almost died in a engine out and broke several bones in his body. The fact that Richard Mc Spaddin can die in an airplane doing a maneuver that he himself taught should tell you, that On any given day, when your time to die comes, it will not matter your skill level!
@@phillp7777spoken as a true non-pilot
@@mauriceevans6546Don’t listen to the haters. We all make mistakes, we are human. If anything, you are more experienced than most now. in that you are probably more intimately familiar with the factors that go into a base to final stall spin than most pilots. The vast majority of pilots do not survive it, as you know. I’m glad you shared your story and know that it is valuable experience that has improved your skills.
Mike, while as tragic as that example was, it’s a powerful lesson to learn for any pilot or pilot to be. Thanks for sharing this important information.
I fly a PA28-161 in my academy. They LOVE to fly and float to the very last second.
It’s very easy with new students to enter a dangerous oscillation. You really just have to maintain ground effect until the bird decides to land. Any attempt at flaring before will get you back in the air and smash back down.
Other than that, it’s a very forgiving bird. I will always love it as I learned to fly in it.
whiff umm what bout when rw end coming up at you... can't keep floating...smfh
Glad to hear Marcie is okay. We all make mistakes.
It's why we are taught to, "Hold the aircraft off, hold it off, hold it off..." until it lands. Even experienced pilots sometimes come over the threshold a little faster than we planned due to our own error or a change in wind, and of course misjudging the flare. Then there is also some ground effect on hotter days. These things cause us to fly down the runway a bit longer than we planned and it isn't fun when this happens, but patience and humility is key.
If you are uncomfortable with the distance or you feel the airplane is going back up, not to mention a change in the wind... then push it forward and go around. The extra tenth or two of an hour in your logbook isnt a bad thing!
Good points Mike. There are some good principals in "Stick and Rudder" that unfortunately have not carried over in first Practical Test Standards and now Airmen Certification Standards. We now tend to focus on V-speeds and standardization of response/recovery rather than how to fly in the first place. Had the lady flying the Cirrus just understood what the airplane wanted to do, often asked by Wolfgang, she would have allowed the nose to go down in any steep turn at low altitude. A turn of any bank angle will be a 1 g turn if we release the back pressure on the stick. Understanding the "law of the roller coaster" would make some go arounds less dangerous and less fatal. Without zoom reserve we shouldn't pitch up. Neither Vx nor Vy is appropriate with thousands of feet of runway ahead of us. Get zoom reserve airspeed first. No not a number. Just assurance that the airplane will go up nicely and we have airspeed with which to maneuver if the engine quits.
We generally, by Airmen standards, fly too slow to be able to maneuver on takeoff and we fly too fast to actually land. Vso has nothing to do with landing. It is an out of ground effect airspeed. "All slowed up and ready to squat," is an in ground effect condition (sorry no number.) The Cherokee prop strike could not happen had she been all slowed up and ready to squat. That means the yoke would have been full back.
Everything we have been taught is legal and correct, but mostly is poor energy management. It is if then, however, and not a principal. If stall, dump nose. On takeoff at Vx or Vy pitch attitude after three seconds startle to realize the engine has failed is no useful V-speed. It is stall, and planned recovery practice at altitude is no help. Staying in ground effect until zoom reserve airspeed and pitching to safely over obstructions rather than hundreds of feet over obstructions and even down drainage egress is good energy management. Deceleration enough to sink enough to bring the throttle into dynamic control of glide angle and rate of descent, rather than long hold off, is good energy management and prevents prop strikes and even late and dangerous go arounds. And you are right, above, if too fast we have to be patient and hold off and eventually we will decelerate enough to be, "all slowed up and ready to squat."
Marcie's prop strike happened in 2017 - in California. Video was lifted and grifted.
i had a flight that porpused 3 times in a PA-28 i was trying to force the landing, i was too fast. asfte the 3rd bounce i hit the throttle and took off. no prop strike but it was getting progressivly worse with each bounce. had i not done that it would have been a crash. what i learned? air speed and decent rate. i found an rpm setting that made my approches much easier and stable. now i grease every landing.
My club has had 3 prop strikes on tow planes, and all 3 have been high time, experienced pilots. Two were pilots doing things they probably shouldn't have been doing, one was a dust devil that picked up the tail on takeoff.
Kind of like being in the middle of a 8 lane highway and having to get over for an exit in a 1/4 mile. Your better and safer waiting until you have a safe easy access to the exit without a bunch of traffic to deal with or in the runway case anything that feels off or "not perfect" for the approach. Anxiety can make you do funny things. Better off being in any situation feeling relaxed and positive.
You saying it’s better to get over early but if you DO leave it too late, continue to the next exit and go back? Better to do an extra X-miles, than to die or worse still, kill someone else. I agree.
It's not just a PIO that can mess up a landing, it can also be something like a sudden strong crosswind gust. Now, I frequently fly into airports with quite long runways so instead of a full go-around I can add power, gain 5 or 10 feet, than reduce, flare and do it again. But like you say you should have some experience under your belt before doing anything but a standard go-around which (hopefully) you train for until proficiency.
Pilot Induced Oscillation. She 3-pointed it and didn't flare enough. I've had bouncers when I first learned, transitioning to the 172 from the Warrior- the spring steel gear is not as forgiving as a strut. I tell my students after the second bounce don't try to save it, power up and go around.
You probably should teach them to go-around on the first bounce. For one, depending on the magnitude of the bounce, the second hit could be the one where the firewall buckles and the prop strikes. Second, Soon you will be flying an airliner I imagine. Most jets the spoilers deploy on the initial bounce and trying to reset a flare after the bounce can be catastrophic. I fly the MD-11 for a major cargo airline and bouncing is an automatic go-around due to multiple fatalities and wrecks for failing to do so.
I'm flying a sundowner with bouncy gear. Have porpoised it couple of times leaning it. Yup full throttle and go around!! Glad I did it while in training with instructor. Now I know. Dont try to save the landing!
I saw that video on that accident that was sad.I would just tell the tower I cant do that and I want to divert to a smaller less busy airport.A low to the ground steep turn can result in a tip stall and spin right into the ground.
Thank you for that I remember that accident that was so sad
The other thing that takes a hit with a prop strike is the ego:)
There's no shame in going around
I haven't flown for over 9 mths because of a back injury and I definitely will be get a few lessons just to make sure that I'm ok ,I don't want to put myself or anyone else in danger.
I think we all remember being a new pilot and being a little too concerned with the perfect landing and/or having to go around. Like the entire world is watching us and judging our landings, or at a controlled airport, worried about what a controller/atc might think or have to deal with because of the go-around?
I'm curious... do any instructors out there work on over coming this with students? Such as constantly pushing the throttle forward over the threshold for no reason but to do a go around.
Once an aircraft PIO's your pretty much a passenger unless you can power up.
My cost estimate to replace the prop, inspect the engine and nose gear, etc: 10 Aviation Units.
Some planes…
If you approach a few knots too fast…
Forcing the plane to land will get a bounce.
Trying to control the landing again the next bounce gets bigger.
The third bounce, noticeably larger still, often breaks the nose gear, with a prop strike.
Going around always cures the problem…. Don’t wait for the third bounce!
Engine tear down and replacement prop and mechanic to make it happen… 10s of thousands of dollars and weeks if not months to make it happen.
The most simple prop strike can be somebody accidentally bumping into the prop with their car…
A low power prop strike is much better than a high power prop strike. The forces on the internal engine parts are tremendous…
Embrace the go around! It can be your best financial friend…. 😃
Some good advice.
The thumbnail plane is Beechcraft and the accident plane is piper. Small detail.
Glad all is safe. Thx for sharing. Enjoy your weekend. #salute my gud brotha!!!!!!!
Good Lesson!👍
Anytime you touch down before the plane is done flying you will bounce. Speed control is key.
Absolutely. Just let the ground effect take care of you, HOLD IT until the bird comes down by itself. This is especially important in Cherokees, those birds want to stay in the air.
It look like he hit his brakes too soon. Still coasting down the runway he had enough earlier to stop. Maybe I’m wrong correctly.
Which video are you watching? Are you referring to the Red Bull aircraft, or the bush plane?
Great video definitely helps along the journey how is the student that had the prop strike their confidence to continue hopefully all good thanks for sharing!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So far no prop strikes.
My plane went to the shop to have the alternator fixed. In July we had TS that broke 3 planes near mine loose and they hit other planes. Mechanics feared my prop had been struck by the runaways. He was unsure because my constant speed prop still worked fine. They mechanic removed my prop and did a measurement of my crank shaft roundness, I am fine. They almost grounded my plane and sent my engine in for an IRAN, it only has 150 hours on it.
PIO- Pilot Induced Oscillation pretty common, there even was a Boeing 757 that did this recently and bent the airplane behind the cabin door and wing root. Total loss. This was an accidental feature built in the Cessna 177 Cardinal until modified with slotted stabilator. Go around would have saved the engine and prop.
As a Cardinal owner for the last 11 years, permit me to offer a clarification on the Cardinal stabilator. It was NOT an accidental design feature. The controls on the Cardinal were purposely made lighter and more effective in all axes compared to the Cessna 172, the airplane the Cardinal was designed to replace. Testing during certification did not reveal any problems, but that changed when the general public got their ham-fists on the "new" 172 and flew it as such. But the Cardinal requires a much lighter touch and the results were broken nose gears and bent firewalls when pilots pulled and shoved on the yoke in the flare like they did in the 172. The slots were added to reduce the chance of a stabilator stall when the yoke was abruptly snatched back in the flare, which resulted in loss of pitch control and the airplane nosing over close to the runway. The ratio of yoke movement to stabilator movement was also changed during the first three years of production to accommodate those who couldn't fly with a light touch. I find the Cardinal a delight to fly (compared to other Cessnas), provided you fly with your finger tips. Google AvWeb's excellent article "Unfairly Maligned Airplanes" for more history and old wives tales re: the Cardinal.
Great vid Mike. Thanks By The Way totally agree on the ego thing!
So sad indeed. She should had diverted to Ellington Airport, Houston (about 5 minutes away) from Hobby, Houston as you rightly suggested.
I'm not an instructor however I think the core lesson of flying should be that a plane is a glider. So a landing can be seen as the end of a glide with power to idle on approach. The engine is for flying, not for landing. I get the impression that landings are consistently taught with power on the engine in which case it's very easy to have enough power to continue to fly. The engine has no business being on during landing. That becomes more pronounced the better glider a plane is. If it's a brick like a cessna it can waste engine power and still land but a good glider can have virtually no engine power on for landing. So ditch the engine. A stabilized approach includes engine to idle. Let it sink naturally onto the runway.
And porpoising should be explicitly shown to the student pilot as a concept rather than assume it is intuited. I get the sense that a lot of teaching assumes practice will teach theory somehow without saying it and that's a mistake. A plane is foremost a glider. That should be the core mantra. That can also tell you that low flying is very dangerous and staying high is safer. Because it is a glider. And gliding from the ground is difficult.
You can always go around but that should not be seen as a substitute for understanding what a landing is. I figure that going around is virtually never necessary. Even in a microburst. If a microburst slams you into the ground you better stay down because the plane can be too damaged to go around and if it doesn't slam you into the ground then you can land anyway.
If you set up for landing with idle power then there is very little reason to go around. You need crab, you need rudder, you need to pull back quickly if there is a momentary downwash but otherwise it will cushion down to the ground with no real chance of bouncing. Hold appropriate glide speed and angle of course. Stall is not your friend.
How fun. Now they get to rebuild the entire engine!
I saw a plane go around 4times she was low on fuel so she switched to her reserve there was something wrong with the tank plane stalled so if u r low on fuel i sugest 20min before u see the airport switch to your reserve so if theres a problem u can fix it she died cause of this
@Navy1977 it was 12yrs ago it was miami they kept landing the bigger planes and making her wait
@Navy1977 anytime be safe out there
After my first solo, I went out a couple days later to fly solo again. I proceeded to porpoise the airplane on the first lap around the pattern. My instructor never covered the topic of porpoising. If I had not watched LewDix Aviation's video the night before, I probably would have had a prop strike: ruclips.net/video/HTRtJRWloEA/видео.htmlsi=uGalwG2PTZifFRIu As soon as it happened, I went full power, slowly retracted the flaps, and went around. I was scared and lacking confidence, but the next approach I got it down safely and continued my pattern practice.
I only have 120 hours and 455 landings under my belt so far. Any approach or landing that I feel is not stable/controlled, I will always go around. I've forced a few sketchy landings before...never again. It's just not worth it.
What airport was this at? Looks like so cal area
2017, Ramona, California.
@@EJWash57 ha, I was just there today!
First things first, I'm glad everyone is safe and well. Good share, Mike.
Good video Mike. No prop strike but I got a front flat tire on my first solo. Thankfully I was on the taxiway when the tire went completely flat.
students for life, thanks for the advice, Mike!
Hey I'm a mechanic at krnm
Doesn't seem like the approach was bad. Going to fast and not enough flare to bleed speed. Then when oscillating starts , just hold yoke back and keep it there.
My video game just resets, in real life prop strikes are expensive 😊
great advice
Hey Bud, I recommend taking this video down, or at least removing the name of the person who had the prop strike. No need to name and shame this poor person.
Ouch.
Just came back from flying N4132J she still flies great!
How bad is that going to affect your insurance?
Thank you for this video. It is a good training video and reminder to all of us. Looking at your plane in the landing video I thought it was both fast and flat. There was no evidence of flair but, driving onto the runway. Re : the second plane ; I had two immediate thoughts, 1) was the altimeter correctly set ? 2) On final, why didn't the the pilot consider a forward slip to drop altitude before hitting the end of the runway. I think the tower should have kept the same person on the line until the plane was down or the decision to go elsewhere was made. Things seemed too rushed and that sadly led to forgetting the basics and a crash. Again thank you for the video. As you said, a pilot's license is a license to learn. All the best, Hal
Looks like he’s got too much airspeed.
Never feel bad if you do a go around.
You can always Try again.
Fly the plane first always.
When starting your go around, establish positive climb then let the tower know your intentions.
Positive control at all times.
Former COMM, CFI AGI 5000+ HRS.
PIC means your are the boss.
Pilot induced oscillation
The pilot that crashed was completely incompetent. I don’t know how someone likes that gets a license. It is very sad to be sure, but this was in no way on ATC.
No one is blaming ATC. The point is as PIC, it is perfectly okay to request for a different option or just say negative. ATC doesn’t have the final say, the Pilot does.
@@mojogrip I agree the PIC needs to never forget that they are PIC. However, your opening comment about the pilot “did everything asked of her” made it sound like it wasn’t her fault she crashed. In fact, she didn’t do everything asked of her. She was “asked” to land several times and was unable to do so. She clearly was not in command of the airplane and could not do simple things like establish an appropriate glide path to the runway. The saddest part of this is that at least one instructor signed her off for a flight ride and at least one DE passed her.
@Navy1977 A competent pilot doesn’t fly an approach that gets them at the runway 200’ or more too high … and then repeats that mistake. And a competent pilot doesn’t let ATC fly their airplane. I don’t care how many mistakes ATC makes, they will never crash my airplane.
@Navy1977 One only has to listen to the audio to know the facts that matter. The NTSB is a political organization. Their analyses are seldom useful and often wrong and they almost never issue recommendations in their final reports, which means they seldom fulfill their mission. And I never said I was offering anything other than my opinion, so get over yourself.
@Navy1977 So, tell me, how did ATC cause the pilot to arrive at the runway far too high twice in a row? Did they have remote control of the airplane?
The background in "Marcie's Prop Strike" in N4132J (2001 Piper PA-28-140) footage didn't look like North Carolina landscape. A simple search finds this footage is from 2017, the landing taking place at the Ramona, CALIFORNIA Airport. Your narrative over this footage infers that is your student that incurred the prop strike. As far as ATC, stop presenting the PIC/ATC relationship as a battle over who flies the aircraft.
I thought the same thing at first, but I believe he's stating one of his students had a prop strike, and he's showing video examples of prop strikes, but Mike never said his student was in any of the videos, is a little bit confusing.
Wise words
Too fast or too high, go around, as porpoising isn't a good thing and get real expensive, really quickly.
The crash, that's a classic case of forgetting the most important thing.
Aviate, navigate, communicate. In that order. She forgot the aviate and navigate, tragically. It's my airplane, because it's my fat ass up there, so if I get comms suggesting suicide, that's a double helping of nope.
any prop strike.that engine stops suddenly....engine seizes up..if yur lucky thats all.
Would never want you rent or fky that plane ever ever , if knew that was on its record logbooks doubt much any a&p gonna be able fix repair that again even if IA signs off as airworthy.. screw it. Why take chance w shaky bad engine seized up from prop strike. no way.. just like car engine seizes up... engine is screwed forever.
Fly the aircraft until parked and engine(s) off. Good advice. In this case, the pilot OVER FLEW the aircraft! (PIO)
Glad you survived!
The wrong brothers
Painfull to watch.. this is the instructors fault in allowing the student to landing flat.. if the instructor insisted on full stall or close to full stall landings, this never would have happened. I see pilots all the time allowing a 3 point landing with nosewheel aircraft. No need to go around after the first bounce or two.. all they had to do was ease the yoke back and keep the nose off the ground a little longer.
I watched the whole video the other day, horrible 10:25
$$$