Natalie Kalmus was known, sometimes notoriously, as the Technicolor advisor on set Technicolor films from 1935 to ‘48, often credited as the ‘color consultant’ for all their films. Every costume, wall paint, literally the hue, shade and tone of everything was supposed to get her okay. Love how someone like Tashlin just ported over his palette from his cartoon days into cinema.
1:07:00 One of the things I like most about the contemporary color film stocks from Kodak is that they were consciously designed to work well for many different skin tones. It is very true that for the vast majority of imaging history, caucasian skin was the baseline everything was designed towards. But especially with the jump to Vision3, the biggest change in terms of color was taking the skin tones to a place we’re melanin would have more depth and taking away the yellow tendency of Vision2. You can see that pretty clearly in their comparison videos, where the color of the tan caucasian actors doesn’t change very much between Vision2 and 3 but redder caucasian actors would look more natural, black actors had more saturation in their skin tones, while the Asian actor’s skin had much more subtle complexities than before.
i have zero knowledge on this subject but happy to watch anything with the Deakins and Greig in conversation! I appreciated Donald's questions on lighting a group of people with a range of skin tones (interesting that the skill of the makeup artist remains critical) and the question that led to Greig talk about the study of an light on an actor via stills. I was also interested in Donald's observations re the obstacles to contributing to solutions - I could see parallels with business contexts. Imagine how much better an image / business outcome could be with the right people and the right collaboration / level of engagement behind it
1:37:24 - he's referring to Andrew Lock (Gaffer & gear) who's a pro gaffer with decades of experience and the most respected lighting gear reviewer on YT, proven by the very fact that Greig Fraser studies his tests. Anyway, just felt like he deserved his name or channel mentioned.
I strive to be able to have the lighting all situated so that there isn’t much in post to fix, although I know it’s much more difficult on a lower budget. I do enjoy the color grade/correction process too. Having a close to the finished product right out of the camera would be great though.
I wonder why LED lights do not come with the option to calibrate them and/or create custom illumination curves for the lights at different power outputs. I mean, they are colored lights akin to the pixels on monitors and we've had the option to calibrate those since forever. This way rental houses could do calibration before renting out and ensure more consistent color of light output even if the light fixtures are of different ages and/or manufacturers. They could simply ask what the requirements are for a shoot and calibrate accordingly... Everything from white points to changes in color reproduction to fit a specific camera sensor better and on set you could simply switch the light from one profile to the other depending on the requirements for each specific scene... Shouldn't light calibration be a thing already? I mean, at least in the high end. Shouldn't ARRI be doing that? If not, James should give them a phone call... 😉
In the early 1950s, Kodak created something called a “Shirley Card.” This card was a picture of a white woman wearing pearls and was used for color calibration when film was developed. As one can imagine, this presented a problem when people of color had their film developed. “Shirley Cards” were also used in the broader film industry, and again, the nuances of skin tone for people of color were not properly captured. Kodak continued to use these cards without change, until the 1990s. It was then that a new multicultural card was created featuring women of different skin tones. Do you imagine that Kodak received complaints from families of color frustrated by the development of their film? YES ! Do you imagine that any action resulted on the part of Kodak? NO ! What prompted the change? The furniture and chocolate industries were frustrated to see that shades of brown, which characterized their products, were not accurately highlighted. They used their power to force the hand of Kodak, and subsequently other film companies, to improve the technology. Sensitivity related to skin tone was non-existent. This racial bias in photography is another example of how people of color have been marginalized. A standard was set with the “Shirley Card” of 1950, sending messages of inferiority and insignificance. The change occurred when companies complained that their chocolate products were not the right shade of brown and furniture companies voiced displeasure about the lack of variation in the color of wood. Source: www.obeducators.com/reflections/do-you-know-how-chocolate-and-furniture-impacted-the-film-industry-jg33j#:~:text=What%20prompted%20the%20change%3F,companies%2C%20to%20improve%20the%20technology.
The new trailer for Horizon comes to mind. The yellow cast on the faces is really pronounced. They shot with the Venice and I'm sure they're going for a real sun bleached look, but it's almost like they graded in a 709 color space and the range of that color became so limited that it translated as pure yellow. I really want that movie to be great and wish they had just shot on film. I wish all theatrical releases were shot and projected on film. That's truly something you can't get at home, unless you're Tarantino.
I think it would be great to have someone like Steve Yedlin in this conversation, a great bridge between the scientific aspect of color and the practicam onset use
Natalie Kalmus was known, sometimes notoriously, as the Technicolor advisor on set Technicolor films from 1935 to ‘48, often credited as the ‘color consultant’ for all their films. Every costume, wall paint, literally the hue, shade and tone of everything was supposed to get her okay. Love how someone like Tashlin just ported over his palette from his cartoon days into cinema.
1:07:00
One of the things I like most about the contemporary color film stocks from Kodak is that they were consciously designed to work well for many different skin tones. It is very true that for the vast majority of imaging history, caucasian skin was the baseline everything was designed towards. But especially with the jump to Vision3, the biggest change in terms of color was taking the skin tones to a place we’re melanin would have more depth and taking away the yellow tendency of Vision2. You can see that pretty clearly in their comparison videos, where the color of the tan caucasian actors doesn’t change very much between Vision2 and 3 but redder caucasian actors would look more natural, black actors had more saturation in their skin tones, while the Asian actor’s skin had much more subtle complexities than before.
i have zero knowledge on this subject but happy to watch anything with the Deakins and Greig in conversation! I appreciated Donald's questions on lighting a group of people with a range of skin tones (interesting that the skill of the makeup artist remains critical) and the question that led to Greig talk about the study of an light on an actor via stills. I was also interested in Donald's observations re the obstacles to contributing to solutions - I could see parallels with business contexts. Imagine how much better an image / business outcome could be with the right people and the right collaboration / level of engagement behind it
1:37:24 - he's referring to Andrew Lock (Gaffer & gear) who's a pro gaffer with decades of experience and the most respected lighting gear reviewer on YT, proven by the very fact that Greig Fraser studies his tests. Anyway, just felt like he deserved his name or channel mentioned.
These talks are so helpful and enjoyable. I would love more in this style.
If you have specific subjects you'd like to have covered, let me (James) know and I'll see what we can pull together.
I really appreciate you doing and sharing this conversation. Even if just to find out that you also deal with such color challenges. Thank you 🙏
AWESOME ! Thank you Team Deakins!
I strive to be able to have the lighting all situated so that there isn’t much in post to fix, although I know it’s much more difficult on a lower budget. I do enjoy the color grade/correction process too. Having a close to the finished product right out of the camera would be great though.
I wonder why LED lights do not come with the option to calibrate them and/or create custom illumination curves for the lights at different power outputs. I mean, they are colored lights akin to the pixels on monitors and we've had the option to calibrate those since forever. This way rental houses could do calibration before renting out and ensure more consistent color of light output even if the light fixtures are of different ages and/or manufacturers.
They could simply ask what the requirements are for a shoot and calibrate accordingly... Everything from white points to changes in color reproduction to fit a specific camera sensor better and on set you could simply switch the light from one profile to the other depending on the requirements for each specific scene...
Shouldn't light calibration be a thing already? I mean, at least in the high end. Shouldn't ARRI be doing that? If not, James should give them a phone call... 😉
Fascinating. Thank you. Flag off the starlight!
In the early 1950s, Kodak created something called a “Shirley Card.” This card was a picture of a white woman wearing pearls and was used for color calibration when film was developed. As one can imagine, this presented a problem when people of color had their film developed. “Shirley Cards” were also used in the broader film industry, and again, the nuances of skin tone for people of color were not properly captured.
Kodak continued to use these cards without change, until the 1990s. It was then that a new multicultural card was created featuring women of different skin tones.
Do you imagine that Kodak received complaints from families of color frustrated by the development of their film?
YES !
Do you imagine that any action resulted on the part of Kodak?
NO !
What prompted the change?
The furniture and chocolate industries were frustrated to see that shades of brown, which characterized their products, were not accurately highlighted. They used their power to force the hand of Kodak, and subsequently other film companies, to improve the technology.
Sensitivity related to skin tone was non-existent. This racial bias in photography is another example of how people of color have been marginalized. A standard was set with the “Shirley Card” of 1950, sending messages of inferiority and insignificance. The change occurred when companies complained that their chocolate products were not the right shade of brown and furniture companies voiced displeasure about the lack of variation in the color of wood.
Source: www.obeducators.com/reflections/do-you-know-how-chocolate-and-furniture-impacted-the-film-industry-jg33j#:~:text=What%20prompted%20the%20change%3F,companies%2C%20to%20improve%20the%20technology.
I really enjoyed this fun and very fascinating conversation.
Why P3? Is that assuming end viewers are watching on P3 displays?
It began in the time when the main release was theatrical. The color range is greater and more subtle.
@@teamdeakinsReal I see. Thank you!
The new trailer for Horizon comes to mind. The yellow cast on the faces is really pronounced. They shot with the Venice and I'm sure they're going for a real sun bleached look, but it's almost like they graded in a 709 color space and the range of that color became so limited that it translated as pure yellow. I really want that movie to be great and wish they had just shot on film. I wish all theatrical releases were shot and projected on film. That's truly something you can't get at home, unless you're Tarantino.
I think it would be great to have someone like Steve Yedlin in this conversation, a great bridge between the scientific aspect of color and the practicam onset use
Muy bueno el tema.
Thank you.
👏👏👏
The sound was so awful from the guests I could not watch it all