And this goes to show that you can only have one design to control the lateral movement of the the axle. Having a triangulated 4 link will be self locating. Adding the Watts link causes a bind
The point of the triangulation in the upper link is to prevent side-by-side movement in the rear which is also the job of the watts link so it's all very redundant. The work looks great though. The watts is meant for the traditional four link.
Actually, the intended job of the watts link in this scenario was to lower the rear roll center as well as located the rear axle side to side. When you try to lower the rear roll center though, it binds.
In that case a straight on four link would have been the way to go, but I guess it worked out in the end. The four link on there is a really clean setup though. It look a lot like the choppin block rear. They do nice work. Question, did you want to lower the pivot point for body clearance?
Not just redundant, competing. The triangulated upper bars already have a roll center at the point where they'd intersect. Adding the Watts link creates a second roll center. The binding is due to these two roll centers fighting each other. That's why it got easier to move as they raised the Watts pivot, the Watts RC got closer to the built-in RC of the 4-link. You are right, a regular parallel 4-link would make the Watts functional and give them the adjustability they are looking for.
In short the triangulated top was tring to twist in a circle as intended but leaving center roll in tack the pan hard is shoving the axle to the left and to the right against the triangulated section. Your set up is great just get rid of that pan hard
The whole idea of this video was to show why a watts link (or any other lateral locating device such as panhard bar) should NOT be used in conjunction with a triangulated 4 link setup.
@@LSVLance but at no point do you say and this is why you dont use these with these it looked more like you were tring to figure out what set up would work for you.
Why on earth does this have a Watts link when the suspension is a triangulated 4 link which already locates the pinion angle and keeps the rear from moving side to side?
Probably the Watt mechanism holds the center of the bridge without moving away from the trajectory. Everything works easily, but a lot of details can be made easier and the mass will be easier.
So what is your rear-end setup that you've ultimately gone with after all these years. I've started autocrossing and learning the basics, in a GM B-body of all things. I realize my triangulated 4 link has poly all around so for sure it's binding, but I'll do a similar test to take off the spring and shock and see how freely it rotates by pushing on each side of the axle. Then address the issue with i guess spherical bushings, don't think there's much option otherwise without major fabrication
I ran the triangulated 4 link for a long time and then about 2 years ago switched to a pan hard bar 3 link setup. The 3 link is so much better in many ways, lowering the rear roll center height from 18" to 10" is a game changer for handling purposes. I had to pretty much start from scratch with my setup to balance the car again. If you are in for some fabrication, 3 link swapping is the way to go.
The whole idea of this video was to show why a watts link (or any other lateral locating device such as panhard bar) should NOT be used in conjunction with a triangulated 4 link setup.
Fuck! Why? Why there are two different axle transversal stability systems in one setup? I mean if you have a Watt's linkage those upper arms must be strictly longitudinal and strictly parallel to each other.
And this goes to show that you can only have one design to control the lateral movement of the the axle. Having a triangulated 4 link will be self locating. Adding the Watts link causes a bind
A very good demonstration on why you can’t have two roll centres fighting with each other.
I'd toss out that hard pan bar. That's what the triangulated part is taking car of it seams like the pan hard is interfering with that movement
The point of the triangulation in the upper link is to prevent side-by-side movement in the rear which is also the job of the watts link so it's all very redundant. The work looks great though. The watts is meant for the traditional four link.
Actually, the intended job of the watts link in this scenario was to lower the rear roll center as well as located the rear axle side to side. When you try to lower the rear roll center though, it binds.
In that case a straight on four link would have been the way to go, but I guess it worked out in the end. The four link on there is a really clean setup though. It look a lot like the choppin block rear. They do nice work. Question, did you want to lower the pivot point for body clearance?
@@chrisw9451 No, these cars get autocrossed and tracked and lowering the rear roll center helps handling considerably.
Oh gotcha, not what I was thinking the use was.
Not just redundant, competing. The triangulated upper bars already have a roll center at the point where they'd intersect. Adding the Watts link creates a second roll center. The binding is due to these two roll centers fighting each other. That's why it got easier to move as they raised the Watts pivot, the Watts RC got closer to the built-in RC of the 4-link. You are right, a regular parallel 4-link would make the Watts functional and give them the adjustability they are looking for.
In short the triangulated top was tring to twist in a circle as intended but leaving center roll in tack the pan hard is shoving the axle to the left and to the right against the triangulated section. Your set up is great just get rid of that pan hard
The whole idea of this video was to show why a watts link (or any other lateral locating device such as panhard bar) should NOT be used in conjunction with a triangulated 4 link setup.
@@LSVLance got yeah
@@LSVLance but at no point do you say and this is why you dont use these with these it looked more like you were tring to figure out what set up would work for you.
Trying to find a video do you know anything about triangulated ladder bar? Why? What's the benefits
Why on earth does this have a Watts link when the suspension is a triangulated 4 link which already locates the pinion angle and keeps the rear from moving side to side?
Probably the Watt mechanism holds the center of the bridge without moving away from the trajectory. Everything works easily, but a lot of details can be made easier and the mass will be easier.
So what is your rear-end setup that you've ultimately gone with after all these years. I've started autocrossing and learning the basics, in a GM B-body of all things. I realize my triangulated 4 link has poly all around so for sure it's binding, but I'll do a similar test to take off the spring and shock and see how freely it rotates by pushing on each side of the axle.
Then address the issue with i guess spherical bushings, don't think there's much option otherwise without major fabrication
I ran the triangulated 4 link for a long time and then about 2 years ago switched to a pan hard bar 3 link setup. The 3 link is so much better in many ways, lowering the rear roll center height from 18" to 10" is a game changer for handling purposes. I had to pretty much start from scratch with my setup to balance the car again. If you are in for some fabrication, 3 link swapping is the way to go.
It's stiff because the arc of the bars don't intersect, right? Remove one arm, and no need to intersect.
The whole idea of this video was to show why a watts link (or any other lateral locating device such as panhard bar) should NOT be used in conjunction with a triangulated 4 link setup.
is that diff housing cast? trying to do 4link on my 98 ranger and running into the issue of welding to the housing.
What's the point of the bell crank?
I need those upper bars
Fuck! Why? Why there are two different axle transversal stability systems in one setup?
I mean if you have a Watt's linkage those upper arms must be strictly longitudinal and strictly parallel to each other.
That was kind of the point of the video, to show just that... Thanks for your input though.
@@LSVLance
Oh. That was not even near obvious.
Thanks for your answer though. :)
Interesting
Pan hard dont get used with triangulated