The complaint dept box is full. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil
But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ “But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’ “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ” Luke 16:25-31 NKJV
If God the father and his son the Lord Jesus Christ don’t exist and unreal like santa clause, why do we hate him? “They will hate you but they hated me first.” And still… God’s merciful hand reaches out to even those that hate him if they would only call upon his name.
Because santa clause does not say believe in him or suffer in hell for eternity and say we should not teach evolution in schools and does not knock on my door asking for money and santa does not cause people to avoid simple moral questions. It is justice to punish people for crimes they did not commit? Sorry if you think criticism is hate.
Why isn't God more overt? Thinking about it, this question pre-supposes that God isn't very overt or present in this world or universe. But what if the level of 'overtness' or His presence were to be lowered just a bit, who's to say that the world wouldn't fall into complete and utter chaos? So maybe His level of presence and overtness is 'just right' so that we can retain our free will but at the same time live in a world that isn't to that level of degeneracy (yet)
@docdisco42 Asking why God is more or less overt is not the question. The key question here is how do you establish that God is present at all? You can't answer it. Frank Turek can't answer it. But you blithely go on as if this were a settled matter. No one has ever established any effect to have a divine cause. Not once. If you can't provide criteria that would conclusively demonstrate that the supernatural exists, and can be accurately detected, there is no basis for any of these claims. Theism all boils down to being attractive and affirming to humans. It has enormous consensus and makes a lot of people feel more settled. There's probably data to support that theists are in general happier than non-theists. But that doesn't make any of it true.
@@drumrnvaNeighbor, if you apply the same "burden of proof" to "love",... that you apply to "God",... will you also proclaim to the world that "love does not exist"?
@@pvmoore1154 Of course not! That analogy doesn't work. Love is the word we use to describe putting someone else's needs first, among other things. Nobody claims that love is an independent agent with a will and that seeks to influence human behavior.
#1 Are morals objective? #2 Are there objective moral duties? #3 Is it immoral not to do an objective moral duty? #4 Does god do the objective moral duties? #5 Is it an objective moral duty to save a drowning person if you are of sound mind and can do it with no risk to yourself? #6 Would it be objectively immoral to punish someone for a crime they did not commit? #7 Would you consider a parent who put their kids in a room with a poison fruit and told the kids not to eat it but then also put the best con artist in the room with the children knowing the con artist will get the kids to eat the fruit and the parent does nothing to stop it an objectively moral parent?
Category error in comparison. God is not a human. God is the Source of all things good beyond time space and matter. Yes there's an objective morality. That comes from God who is the foundation of all things we see and can become aware of.
@@nathanielalderson9111 I dont think you understand what the word objective means then. Math is objective, does it only apply to humans? Does 2+2 not equal 4 for god?
Would "love" or "relationship" EXIST,... if we do not have free will? Or would you happily "order" your spouse, child or puppy online, to arrive at your door perfectly "adoring" you? Would their preprogrammed "love" mean anything? God gave Adam & Eve free will so that relationship and love could exist. We may not like the choices we have made with that free will,... but I don't blame God,... I look in the mirror. What in the Gospel of John do you take exception to? Tnx
@@pvmoore1154 Yes. Ya, if I had a choice between something that does not adore me and something that does, I am going to chose the one that does. Sure, it means a made a good purchase. There are many things in the bible I take exception to. But what REALLY bothers me is how so many christians turn into dishonest politicians and avoid answering my simple questions. Its like when I ask a muslim if its morally acceptable to sleep with a 9 year old if you married them and they dont answer the question and instead say something like well what about rebecca. I answered your questions, can you answer mine?
How are those things he listed complaints rather than arguments? Id like to see what he considers arguments vs complaints. How is something like "complexity implies a creator" an argument while something like "If God exists then there shouldn't be so much evil" isn't?
The biggest issue the main driver of Christianity, which is strict obedience to authority above all else. This is most easily seen in the command Christians are given to share the gospel (the good news). You will never meet a Christian who actually cares in the least if the folks they share the gospel with accept it or not. They care only about checking off the box they believe God told them to check.
What kind of radical idiodic generalisation is that?! “You will NEVER meet a Christian who cares in the least if folks… believe the gospel or not” nobody can take anything you say seriously after such a statement. Ps. We are all under strict obedience to someone, or something even if that is ourselves or our feelings and desires. That is a whole generalised statement which is absolutely true.
@None-if3mo Because Christianity is exactly the same as Islam in that sense. Submission to authority. Nothing distinguishes the two faiths apart from the personal preference of the believer.
@Handlehandlehandle320 well, there has yet to be a Christian who cares in the least if the gospel message they share is accepted. Could it happen at some point in the future. Sure, in theory yes.
@Handlehandlehandle320 well sure, we are all under 100% strict obedience to ourselves in every situation. That is an absolute truth. Even if we believe that a certain scripture is true and we ought to do what is says. Our minds are always the arbiter of whether or not our thought or actions align with said scripture. There is no obedience to God in a direct way as a result.
I mean the fact that everything in the universe can be explained by natural means is a pretty good argument against Christianity without stealing from God.
Not everything in the universe can be explained by science/natural means. In fact many scientists will laugh at you for such a foolish, ignorant statement.
"... nor do they give evidence based accounts of how reality could be the way it is in the bases of God", don't want to speak form what he has heard or not, but if he has actually talked to skeptics then that is false. I hearo so many explanations for why everything exist and is the way it is without a God being involved. Are we just going to ignore the entire existence and arguments of Humanistic Judaism or Secular Buddhism? On the other hand, I have not heard any good arguments fore the existence of God, and yes I have listed to all kinds of people, but at least I can admit that I saw attempts at arguments.
The complaint dept box is full.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil
😂🤣😅👍
The weirdest thing I heard (yntil this video) was that John took psychedelics when he was on Patmoss and wrote Revelations
But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’
“But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’
Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’
And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
Luke 16:25-31 NKJV
Neat.
It always adds up to the same thing. "I don't want God to exist and I don't like Him."
Unfortunately most aren't honest enough to put it that way.
Thank you CrossExamined 👍
Brother GiL69! Happy Thanksgiving!
Thank you, Frank!
@@oreally8605
Brother O Really? Happy Thanksgiving, God bless you and your family.
@@katefree9539
Uh, I'm not Frank.
Dr. Turek! How do you find out about when I can attend one of your speeches?
If God the father and his son the Lord Jesus Christ don’t exist and unreal like santa clause, why do we hate him? “They will hate you but they hated me first.” And still… God’s merciful hand reaches out to even those that hate him if they would only call upon his name.
Because santa clause does not say believe in him or suffer in hell for eternity and say we should not teach evolution in schools and does not knock on my door asking for money and santa does not cause people to avoid simple moral questions. It is justice to punish people for crimes they did not commit? Sorry if you think criticism is hate.
Why isn't God more overt?
Thinking about it, this question pre-supposes that God isn't very overt or present in this world or universe. But what if the level of 'overtness' or His presence were to be lowered just a bit, who's to say that the world wouldn't fall into complete and utter chaos? So maybe His level of presence and overtness is 'just right' so that we can retain our free will but at the same time live in a world that isn't to that level of degeneracy (yet)
Well said, thank you
@docdisco42 Asking why God is more or less overt is not the question. The key question here is how do you establish that God is present at all? You can't answer it. Frank Turek can't answer it. But you blithely go on as if this were a settled matter. No one has ever established any effect to have a divine cause. Not once. If you can't provide criteria that would conclusively demonstrate that the supernatural exists, and can be accurately detected, there is no basis for any of these claims. Theism all boils down to being attractive and affirming to humans. It has enormous consensus and makes a lot of people feel more settled. There's probably data to support that theists are in general happier than non-theists. But that doesn't make any of it true.
@@drumrnvaNeighbor, if you apply the same "burden of proof" to "love",... that you apply to "God",... will you also proclaim to the world that "love does not exist"?
Who is the Restrainer?
When will He be removed?
What happens here when He is removed?
@@pvmoore1154 Of course not! That analogy doesn't work. Love is the word we use to describe putting someone else's needs first, among other things. Nobody claims that love is an independent agent with a will and that seeks to influence human behavior.
#1 Are morals objective?
#2 Are there objective moral duties?
#3 Is it immoral not to do an objective moral duty?
#4 Does god do the objective moral duties?
#5 Is it an objective moral duty to save a drowning person if you are of sound mind and can do it with no risk to yourself?
#6 Would it be objectively immoral to punish someone for a crime they did not commit?
#7 Would you consider a parent who put their kids in a room with a poison fruit and told the kids not to eat it but then also put the best con artist in the room with the children knowing the con artist will get the kids to eat the fruit and the parent does nothing to stop it an objectively moral parent?
Category error in comparison.
God is not a human. God is the Source of all things good beyond time space and matter.
Yes there's an objective morality. That comes from God who is the foundation of all things we see and can become aware of.
@@nathanielalderson9111 I dont think you understand what the word objective means then. Math is objective, does it only apply to humans? Does 2+2 not equal 4 for god?
Would "love" or "relationship" EXIST,... if we do not have free will? Or would you happily "order" your spouse, child or puppy online, to arrive at your door perfectly "adoring" you? Would their preprogrammed "love" mean anything?
God gave Adam & Eve free will so that relationship and love could exist. We may not like the choices we have made with that free will,... but I don't blame God,... I look in the mirror.
What in the Gospel of John do you take exception to?
Tnx
@@pvmoore1154 Yes. Ya, if I had a choice between something that does not adore me and something that does, I am going to chose the one that does. Sure, it means a made a good purchase. There are many things in the bible I take exception to. But what REALLY bothers me is how so many christians turn into dishonest politicians and avoid answering my simple questions. Its like when I ask a muslim if its morally acceptable to sleep with a 9 year old if you married them and they dont answer the question and instead say something like well what about rebecca. I answered your questions, can you answer mine?
How are those things he listed complaints rather than arguments? Id like to see what he considers arguments vs complaints. How is something like "complexity implies a creator" an argument while something like "If God exists then there shouldn't be so much evil" isn't?
Even if God was more overt in his reality, atheists would still find reason as far fetched as they could be to deny God.
Present some god evidence for a god…..
And your comment shows blatant disrespect. I suggest trying again.
@therick363
There is ample evidence for God. You would just disregard it anyways.
What evidence do you need if you disagree with my post?
@@DigbyOdel-et3xx Ok, list one of the ample evidences for god then.
The biggest issue the main driver of Christianity, which is strict obedience to authority above all else.
This is most easily seen in the command Christians are given to share the gospel (the good news). You will never meet a Christian who actually cares in the least if the folks they share the gospel with accept it or not. They care only about checking off the box they believe God told them to check.
And? How is that a problem?
What kind of radical idiodic generalisation is that?! “You will NEVER meet a Christian who cares in the least if folks… believe the gospel or not” nobody can take anything you say seriously after such a statement.
Ps. We are all under strict obedience to someone, or something even if that is ourselves or our feelings and desires. That is a whole generalised statement which is absolutely true.
@None-if3mo Because Christianity is exactly the same as Islam in that sense. Submission to authority. Nothing distinguishes the two faiths apart from the personal preference of the believer.
@Handlehandlehandle320 well, there has yet to be a Christian who cares in the least if the gospel message they share is accepted. Could it happen at some point in the future. Sure, in theory yes.
@Handlehandlehandle320 well sure, we are all under 100% strict obedience to ourselves in every situation. That is an absolute truth.
Even if we believe that a certain scripture is true and we ought to do what is says. Our minds are always the arbiter of whether or not our thought or actions align with said scripture.
There is no obedience to God in a direct way as a result.
I mean the fact that everything in the universe can be explained by natural means is a pretty good argument against Christianity without stealing from God.
It would if it could, but it can’t so it won’t.
@@Handlehandlehandle320how so?
Are you saying then a god did it or?
Not everything in the universe can be explained by science/natural means. In fact many scientists will laugh at you for such a foolish, ignorant statement.
Gotta start with how did the world come to be. A sane person cannot conclude that nothing created everything out of nothing.
Really? Define “energy” without giving me an example of it. I’ll hold,…
"... nor do they give evidence based accounts of how reality could be the way it is in the bases of God", don't want to speak form what he has heard or not, but if he has actually talked to skeptics then that is false. I hearo so many explanations for why everything exist and is the way it is without a God being involved. Are we just going to ignore the entire existence and arguments of Humanistic Judaism or Secular Buddhism? On the other hand, I have not heard any good arguments fore the existence of God, and yes I have listed to all kinds of people, but at least I can admit that I saw attempts at arguments.
Totally agree all atheists have is complaining and complaining, like a spoilt brat.
Wow that’s real mature and respectful of you. Would you like to try again but like an adult? Or will it be hypocrisy?
@therick363 telling truth is the most loving thing to do.. isit better to let a child live in ignorance?
If telling the truth is the most loving thing to do, will you give you honest answers to my simple questions?
@@kelzaroute I see you couldn’t or wouldn’t answer the questions.
You claim truth is best…so will you answer questions or not yes or no?