Sure, I'll address a few key points :) The mixer used in the review is 8 years old! All ISO Condesas have a distortion figure of 0.015% and have done for years now. We use only branded parts and polypropylene caps in the mixers audio path. We have been continually improving the performance of the mixers since we started. The idea that the parts are dirt cheap and we are making a massive profit is totally inaccurate, the pricing for the mixers is reasonable, our approach to making them and wiring has been refined over the years and continues to be improved. We look after all Condesa owners even after the warranty period, not charging for repairs that are sent to us, we also supply replacement parts to customers after the warranty period with zero charge for the parts. The team that builds thee mixers are fairly paid for their services. The mixers are based on the OG Bozak, but I have done many changes to improve the noise floor and I have sourced parts to replace the old non available parts. All the extra functionality we introduced, I personally developed the circuits myself. These are complementary to the OG Bozak circuits, the 4 pole ISO performs beautifully and the response curve peaks highlighted in the video were tuned out an improved to a much flatter response quite a few years back. That said these earlier mixer sound and feel very good to use, a mixer similar to this spec won a blind listening test against two other boutique mixers in a certain NY club and its still their preferred mixer after all these years (in fact they have 2 now). Finally I'm from the culture, I've DJ'd for decades, Condesa is part of the reason that this niche exists, its not a bandwagon, lets get rich thing, its born from passion.
Get a fresh one out to him. I know you two have some minor beef but these videos are peoples only source of scientific, unbiased reviews that focus on hardware, thd (for what it’s worth) and build. Way too many silly reviews out there talking about how one mixer sounds great and another sounds bad etc which is useless information given the nature of sound and how we perceive it. We need more deep dives like this. Put your quarrels to one side, do it for the people 🙌
Honestly man, I hope you get rich. You have done a lot for DJ culture and I respect how you answered your critic. You are a boutique small business in a very niche market and having been successful is strong testament to your work. A lot of people who work for corporations don't understand how expensive and time consuming running an independent business is. Keep Spinnin'!
As a Condesa user and very very picky customer when it comes to SOUND (because is all about the SOUND), i can guaranty that in every party / sound system we mounted Condesa it has impressed everyone with the Sound it produced “despite those graph measurements”! Despite the measurements (tho still better than the original Bozak) this mixer brings smile to the audience. There is always place for improvement and Mehdi is very receptive and acts swiftly to critiques especially here was useful for him to start using only branded components. As a happy customer and with a pretty expensive studio i consider to have paid a very fair price, for the SOUND IT PRODUCES and for the heroic labour that is to build a Through Hole Discreet Point to Point Wiring, also hand build with passion and love. If sound for you is “Just Good Enough” and don’t care about human craftsman building your mixer, well an Omnitronic is good enough. by the way SMT circuitry NO THANKS ( if you know you know )
@@Bigger-Circuitry-Bigger-SOUNDI've used this mixer before and seen riggers run em. They sound amazing the only concern to me is the caps. If they've improved then np but especially when it's a ball ache to fix you don't want them blowing up fast. My soundcraft mixer has high harmonic distortion but sounds fucking amazing when doing mix downs. All down to preference at the end of the day. Personally hate all these modern digital mixers. Awful pre amps and you gotta keep an eye on your gain staging constantly. If I've got headroom I wanna be able to run the gain hot, get in the reds and bask in the distortion! Digital almost always sounds terrible when redlining it's what puts me off them. Even w sub mixers monitoring levels.
The whole point of these videos is to test mixers from a purely objective and measurable standpoint, no marketing, no audiophile bs buzzwords, and no biases. Does the Condessa measure badly? Yes, Does it use relatively cheap components? Yes, Does it have high distortion? Yes. All of these factors have been tested objectively. Do people love the Condesa from a subjective unmeasurable position, ALSO YES
Biased and not honest because the sequence of words are carefully made to trick and influence the uninformed viewer in their mixer choice: - First CONDESA never came out to be the mixer that meats the “expectation” of random RUclipsrs - Condesa came out as an IDEA to create a modern fersion of the Vintage Bozak 2DL (through hole discrete point to point wiring circuitry) but with modern features and workflow so the only point of comparison should be the Vintage Bozak 2DL if you want to be honest and not whatever expectations from random youtuber self proclaimed “Rupert Neve of Balcans” 1. Condesa has a better THD than Vintage Bozak so it is an improvement YES 2. In blind test people chose the sound of Condesa over any other mixer as more OPEN and Spacious YES 3. Sound is not just a measurement, first of all it has to be pleasing to the listeners and considering implicitly as “stupid” who bought Condesa because they listen with ears and not with eyes looking measurements IS PRETTY DAMN ARROGANT and good luck with that atitude 4. the talking point of HI FI community of “listening music in hi fi how artist intended” is TOTAL NONSENSE as you can listen music like artist intended only in the same exact room with the same exact equipment otherwise it is always different 5.People Pay for the amount of labor to build CONDESA the only mixer DISCRETE THROUGH HOLE POINT TO PIUNT WIRING and it’s SOUND , when people listen to Condesa in every sound system they remain amazed exactly like the vintage BOZAK do (not the modern Bozak) Now you want to challenge Condesa Philosophy and that can be a good thing but you do it in the right way: - Build a mixer with superior THD and componente ( please note that you don’t have credible talking point to debunk any product if you don’t build one yourself to prove your worth, words are just words) - Than do a Blind test with top notch Mastering Engeeniers and ask which mixer sounds better to the expert ear a Minimoog software is perfect on paper and never drift out of tune but people still love the depth of the sound of the vintage hardware minimoog inside a mix. SOUND is perceived it is physical it has dimension that’s why we love stuff that on paper we shouldn’t, i can name you hundreds of audio equipment / instruments You can build the most perfect Mixer in paper but than if people don’t like it’s sound whats the point , IT IS SO SILLY TO GIVE DETERMINISTIC OPINIONS CONSIDERING ONLY MEASUREMENTS AND NOT THE FINAL GOAL OF THE PRODUCT WHICH IS THE SOUND 🤦🏼♂️
@@Bigger-Circuitry-Bigger-SOUND i think we had very simmilar discussion couple of days ago and i thought we understood each other. Please take into account that this video series focus on technical stuff and measurements, not the sound and i think this might be a source of biggest confusion and emotions. I obviously agree with your point of view, that ears are most important while buying sound reproduction devices. The point of my reviews is to take a look what technical sollutions were used in the process of making DJ mixers. My videos can't be treated as a proper guide giving you full image while choosing a mixer. I also never said that high THD means bad sound. I even said the opposite - please check out my Bozak AR-4 video, there is a sound experiment with saturator that adds THD and you can finally use your ears there. If you consider this content useless i have good news for you - you will find a lot of stuff focused on sound impressions only elsewhere. Since we are repeating ourselves i strongly suggest to end this discussion and go in peace to opposite directions.
The idea of listening to music is to enjoy it. So what I’ve learned is, the more thought out the parts are used, the more pleasing the sound is, regardless of the price of the parts used . I’d rather have a great sounding and feeling mixer with whatever cost of parts is used, than a mixer with the most expensive parts that doesn’t sound and feel as good, TO ME!
@@HouseMusicDefined fully agree. My only question is why are Condesa mixers marketed as something better and more expensive in terms of manufacturing costs when we can see a lot of basic, inexpensive parts here. These mixers do not outperform the competition when it comes to the quality of the components used. Maybe they have better feeling and sound for someone, but why do they talk about manufacturing costs as an advantage? This is the part I can't fully agree with.
Kamil at it again! Not using auto subtitles for your videos gets my salute. What I can gather from the comment section (including comments from the designer) is that the newer models are improved in many ways. Let Mr. K test one of those and buy the man some coffee
Hi, Im in progressed to build mixer base on Boazak circuitry. And I belived in Summing Amp circuit area, it using JFET transistor which is hard to find. My question, What type /series of JFET they are using ? thanks
Another great look at a mixer inside! Thank you! I have a Condesa Lucia from 2017. A few times since then I've hooked up my Rane Empath because I wanted to cut and scratch some beats with the crossfader, but after 15 minutes of hearing records through it I couldn't take it anymore and hooked Lucia back up. A fader pot started getting scratchy due to use of cutting volume fades against an echo to sound like cutting doubles and trying to scratch using the fader. I asked Condesa for the part number so I could replace it and instead they mailed me (to another continent) a new one at zero expense to me. I'm not famous, just another music nerd and delighted customer. That is all I know.
@@thisoldhouz thank you for sharing your perspective. As a technical reviewer I don't take into account things like customer service and subjective sound impressions. I'm happy about your positive experience with Condesa brand.
Keyword was at the end of the video "relatively cheap"... No exotic parts are used, but readily available and reliable parts that do their job just fine. Sticking to well known, common brands won't change the fact that the circuits themselves are rather limited and introduce distortion by design. If you want to talk about cheap parts wait until you see the insides of a DJR-400 🥲
I love these reviews, but would still urge anyone to seek out & listen to what they're curious of & judge for themselves. I can definitely respect the points raised in this, but that doesn't influence the opinion of what my ears heard when using & owning multiple versions of Condesa mixer. I'll add that I don't actually own one at the moment & so no ownership bias on my part
@@nandobelt8687 yes, i had DJR400 for repair and i've seen the internals. DJR400 is very different from Condesa. It's IC based, most circuits (phono preamp, EQ, summing amp, headphone amp) are based on UREI1620. DJR400 also doesn't have output transformers, the balancing there is IC based using THAT chips (same sollution as Mastersounds Radius). So yes, Condesa and E&S are very different inside.
@@nandobelt8687 you will find a lot of sound impressions on the forums. All of them are subjective personal opinions and i recommend making you own opinion based on listening to both mixers. I would say that soundwise i heard a lot of good sounding parties on Condesa and E&S as well as bad sounding parties on those mixers. When choosing a mixer it's important to also be aware of what's going on in the whole signal path and being aware of the character of mixer you want to choose and fit in. Hope you will figure out how to check those mixers, good luck!
Hi and thanks so much for your video series! I built myself two of those Pathos mixer and im curious if you could share if they used the 2n3822 in the Condesa?
Another great video! I guess I share your opinion. The way the mixer is built (THT components, soldered cables, stacked boards) gives the feeling of handcraft, which in general is a positive thing. At the same time it does not only make it more expensive, but also decreases the sound quality with all the noise radiation and parasitics. So as you said, building it in a more clever way would make production cheaper and the money could be spent elsewhere (i.e. better components). Also, while I get the idea of a "coloured" sound, this is way too much distortion for me personally plus the harmonic spectrum does not look as nice as I thought with the 3rd hamonic being dominant. I just rewatched your AR-4 video and look at that, Bozak managed to create a way more "ideal" harmonic profile. So yes, I get the other comment from someone saying it is not coloration but bad design. You could probably lower THD by 20dB if you build the same circuit on a well laid out PCB with SMD components, but then would it still have the same character as a product? If you like it or not, the whole mystery, fandom, looks, price, marketing etc. are all things that make people buy or don't buy mixers. So thank you for making these videos to clear up some of the bs and have a more technical discussion :)
@@dedondigital you won't lower the THD especially that much with the methods you described. It's more about setting the transistors operating points. High THD was achieved on purpose here.
At the end of the day its all down to personal preference. I have owned & sold a number of mixers & still own a couple that have been reviewed, but keep going back to the condesa because for me it sounds best. Great review that gives insight on the mixers & respect what has been pointed out but its always worth playing/listening to a mixer to make an informed decision if you(personally) prefere the sound of mixer A vs mixer B...
People talking here about hifi while playing scratchy and poorly recorded and mastered vinyls. I have owned 3 different models of Condesa from early carmen to lucia and carmen again. Each unit had a different sound character. If you asked me which one I loved the most. It was the one with the serial number 002 carmen which had totally bozak vintage sound. It fit perfectly with my records and some of them are dusty and has a sligtly scratched surface. I have also owned taula and resør mixer. At the end it is subjective with the sound. Some people they buy brand new dj mixers and amplify them 50 years old vintage amplifiers and expecting to hear hifi sound… Condesa is about musicality and this mixer has been all about this for me at the time I used it. If you want yourself hifi setup than buy a proper amplifier and proper speakers, keep the signal path as short as possible and enjoy the ride.
@@mixersinsidelegitimately what he said is right, you should make yourself aware of the costs of doing business in Australia, parts are cheapish, labor and tax is not. The other thing about discreet circuitry like this is that it's serviceable, unlike cheap SMD mass produced parts.
@@danieleden1856 yes, i agree with your opinion regarding costs of running business and labor. My first comment was a bit exaggerated, but i just still think that some unnecessary work was done here to assemble the mixer. This unfortunately means unnecessary work to service (disassemble) the mixer. The thing I hope to show on my channel is that SMD parts are just common in modern electronics. Discrete circuitry can be done using only surface mount (SMD) parts. Some very good parts are made only in SMD now! (for example JFE2140 jfet pair which is discrete). SMD parts are also very serviceable, they are pleasure to work with while making repairs. It takes less time to disassemble and assemble SMD part.
@@mixersinside so which mixer out there sets the benchmark for both electronics and price? I have the Isonoe 420, a couple of Alpha Recording Systems, a Condesa, a Taula, a Formula Sound.
Great job and thanks for these unbiased reviews! ❤️ I was just wondering if the nonlinearity measurement is the only and most important feature to characterize the sound and performance of a mixer. I have read somewhere people talking about the transient response, which should translate in how dry or wet the time dynamics would sound. Have you ever done some tests in this direction?
@@EmanueleVirgillito squarewave testing can also give you some interesting info. THD is the simplest way to check how much color is added. Apart from this there are lots of parameters to check: intermodulation, crosstalk, signal to noise ratio etc.
I have always believed that this mixer is overrated. Please note, I am not suggesting it is a poor-quality mixer, merely that it does not live up to the hype. Additionally, audiophiles can often display a concerning level of naivety.
Another great video. Interesting point at the end about discrete and IC designs, with discrete designs often being more expensive. I imagine the costs are more to do with manufacturing as IC designs are generally simpler and therefore easier to automate some of the production process to keep costs down? Discrete designs seem to often look a lot more complicated with more components with likely less automation in the production process. Seems with discrete designs that maybe time and effort spent in manufacture is a large driver of cost and there is a trade off then with internal component quality to keep costs down. Because it is discrete and more hand assembled, it is then easier to market as being premium / luxury to justify the higher end price of the product
@@mixersinsideyeah fair point but then I guess you can't say it's been hand crafted and it's "more than just a mixer" and have people thrown their money at you
Can you tell us how old is this condesa carmen that you tested? I can’t tell but i believe they improved it over the years. It would be fair to say how old is this mixer that you tested.
I own a pathos.. built with some hi end guts.. Depending where you are buying parts for this mixer build is not cheap and it just a mixer no isolator installed no vu meters Still need to get a case then get faceplate made.
Thank you for a honest review. And keeping things as objective as possible. Unfortunately I have a different opinion. There are certain acceptable boundaries within which equipment can be considered hi-fi or high-end. Looking at the measurements and the internal construction, this is neither hi-fi nor high-end, even though at first glance, with its wooden casing, it might give that impression. I'm shocked at how poorly the internals look - let's be honest, a mess of cables just invites noise issues. Carbon 5% resistors. Cheap electrolytics. And don't even get me started on the serviceability of this device. A THD of -56dB isn't "coloration," it's just bad design. I believe a mixer should be as transparent as possible. The nonlinearity of the isolator is also shocking - I feel like you can actually hear it when the isolator kicks in? I wanted then to check how the manufacturer specifies these parameters, so I went to their website… and they don't specify them. Probably because they're so bad. For everyone who's bought into the hype about the wonders of this mixer - I could sum it up as a not very successful copy of a Bozak, just in a prettier package.
@@AndreasSpaar the thing many people may disagree with is "I believe a mixer should be as transparent as possible" part. Often on club soundsystems and when listening to club music the preffered sound is the colored one. Please do an experiment (i made it in my Bozak AR-4 video) and add saturation to audio. It starts to sound "fuller", it gains more "body". There are obviously some side effects of adding this kind of coloration too. Condesa is praised for its "warm" and "full" sound and as i said in the review i fully agree with the creator that discrete designs like this can sound very pleasant. In this case i'm personally not a fan of calling high THD "bad".
Condensor mixers are way over priced. I get it that they are hand building them but i think they should make it affordable to the masses. unless they wanna identify themselves as a high-end brand. the components (icu, capacitors, pwr supply etc) used in those mixers are relatively inexpensive and has no higher build qualities than those found in lesser priced mixers
You don’t listen music with your eyes!!! On paper Bozak was a cheap components mixer, Minimoog was a cheap components synthesiser, Oberheim sem 8Voice etc etc, but even Behringer tried hard to replicate them with SMT they absolutely failed to achieve the sound of original machines. So you are talking from a Young Technician / Optimisation point of view (with a spice of arrogance in my humble opinion) and you are not considering that what metters is the SOUND. i can guaranty you that in every sound system we have put a Condessa everybody was blown away for how pleasant the sound is. Now as you was pretty arrogant on determining how this mixer should cost (still we have to see what you are capable of building beside opinions) i challenge you to build me the same mixer with better components all throw hole point to point wiring for a cheaper price and i ll buy the 001 product from you?
@@Bigger-Circuitry-Bigger-SOUND thank you for commenting. If you're familiar with my channel you obviously know that i'm here to comment technical sollutions, not the sound. I never said Condesa sounds bad for a single second of my video, and i even agreed while commenting the words of the maker that it for sure may sound pleasant. Regarding the costs it will be possible to make it much cheaper by changing the design to a more mass production suitable one. If you think that things like through hole parts and hand assembly can make a difference then i advice you to stick to Condesa and pay the price for their hard work. Again in my video i didn't say anything that would show that Condesa mixer is too expensive. I said that i disagree that electronic components that this mixer is made of make this machine more costly than other mixers and i'm suprised that nobody so far made a good sounding, cheaper discrete mixer (and it is possible to do it). Regarding your challenge i'm not interested, especially to work with through hole technology - i prefer to work with SMDs.
@@mixersinside Man you can suggest technical solution ONLY IF YOU BUILD SOMETHING till than you only SPEAK. PROVE YOU WORTH BY BUILDING YOUR STUFF BETTER THAN OTHER BRANDS or limit your self to share info not opinions, opinions create expectations and if you don’t build a better solution you result in a LITLE BOY EXALTED TO SHOW OF WHAT HE HAS STUDY AT SCHOOL TO SATISFY THE EAST EUROPEAN PROUD SICK EGO. as an East European man to another East European man i suggest you to be careful of that attitude as it will not bring you so far. cheers
@@Bigger-Circuitry-Bigger-SOUND thank you for expressing your doubts. I try to present mostly facts but it's hard to not express opinions at all. My opinions are based on my experience with electronics which consists not only of making devices but developing the products in bigger, less boutique company. I agree with you, that proving everything by making it on your own would be the best. I hope that in the future you will have opportunity to both play on mixer made by me and buy a low cost discrete mixer that will sound very good from the company that will decide to do it.
@@mixersinside you do a great job if you open and just share info what is inside with ought opinions that can easily trick un experienced people but by giving opinions you can influence un experienced audience and do a huge harm to small companies. Mehdi is a “hero” and a treasure that he manage to build in a resonable price a 100% all Through Hole Hand build Discreet Point to Point Wiring for all those people that cares about and there is no good fir your marketing in harming other companies it just back fires! I hate SMT and i can prove you that in terms of sound (sound is a phisical thing which is percived and not visualised) it is far less pleasing than Through Hole Discreet. now let me give you some examples where Theory Measurements failed to how sound was perceived. - Bozak 2DL is made with of the shelf components of the era and is still the most pleasing sounding mixer despite his very high THD (bozak has a THD higher than Condesa) -Moog Minimoog made with far cheaper components to save on costs than the modular also with a topology circuitry bug and it is still the most beautiful sounding Monophonic synthesizer no clone has achieved the depth of the sound like the original. - ARP2500, ARP 2600 blue marling / gray mini again cheap components of the era full of circuitry errors and NOTHING NOTHING in the WORLD SOUNDS AS MAGICAL AS THOSE MACHINES you was right to criticise that Condesa should use the same branded components like in the ISOLATOR through out the entire circuitry (their costumer deserve it) but to be honest Bozak was made with cheap components too you should point out this too. Why Condesa costs, because it is an insane hand labour work with Discreet point to point wiring and you know it and is dishonest to point out just the cost of a single non branded Capacitor to trick the viewers, people pay for the human passion and love of building something with hands (not every one is just a pragmatic good enough whatever)! As an older guy with a bit more life experince than you i recommend you to create bridges and not distractions you should be inspired by Condesa and if you are capable build something better on top of it. If you would have made this video showing how you would have build your own version of Condesa all through hole point to point discreet but with even better components you would have gas my respect and my money (i bet you have study electronics to make a living). cheers
@@Bigger-Circuitry-Bigger-SOUND i get your point of view. Please note, that i didn't comment sound of Condesa. All the words i have used in the light of high THD were suggesting that it can result in pleasant sound. Regarding THT vs SMD - we can argue forever cause we have different points of reference. Many great sounding mixers let them be warm or transparent (UREI 1603, MasterSounds Radius, Rodec MX00 series) are based on SMD parts. Most modern devices also use SMD parts (signal from your mixer runs through many other elements like amplifiers, AD converters etc - they also reproduce sound). Through hole (THT) and surface mount (SMD) is the difference in mounting as the name implies, and using SMD parts doesn't indicate that sound quality compromises were made. Some of the very fine audio components are available only in SMD nowadays. This technology helps to reduce lead inductance, loop areas which results in better signal integrity that leads to lower noise pickup and better stability of the circuits. It also helps to mount the parts in cheaper and more effective way without any quality loss. If you say that THT sounds better i can believe you or not, this is your opinion i respect, but there are no scientific reasons for using THT.
Thank you for providing this video, lots of hard work went into this I can see. This has also helped me in my quest for my next mixer. Cheers!
E&S DJR 400 next please! love these videos, keep up the great work.
Sure, I'll address a few key points :)
The mixer used in the review is 8 years old!
All ISO Condesas have a distortion figure of 0.015% and have done for years now.
We use only branded parts and polypropylene caps in the mixers audio path.
We have been continually improving the performance of the mixers since we started.
The idea that the parts are dirt cheap and we are making a massive profit is totally inaccurate, the pricing for the mixers is reasonable, our approach to making them and wiring has been refined over the years and continues to be improved.
We look after all Condesa owners even after the warranty period, not charging for repairs that are sent to us, we also supply replacement parts to customers after the warranty period with zero charge for the parts.
The team that builds thee mixers are fairly paid for their services.
The mixers are based on the OG Bozak, but I have done many changes to improve the noise floor and I have sourced parts to replace the old non available parts.
All the extra functionality we introduced, I personally developed the circuits myself. These are complementary to the OG Bozak circuits, the 4 pole ISO performs beautifully and the response curve peaks highlighted in the video were tuned out an improved to a much flatter response quite a few years back.
That said these earlier mixer sound and feel very good to use, a mixer similar to this spec won a blind listening test against two other boutique mixers in a certain NY club and its still their preferred mixer after all these years (in fact they have 2 now).
Finally I'm from the culture, I've DJ'd for decades, Condesa is part of the reason that this niche exists, its not a bandwagon, lets get rich thing, its born from passion.
Get a fresh one out to him. I know you two have some minor beef but these videos are peoples only source of scientific, unbiased reviews that focus on hardware, thd (for what it’s worth) and build. Way too many silly reviews out there talking about how one mixer sounds great and another sounds bad etc which is useless information given the nature of sound and how we perceive it. We need more deep dives like this. Put your quarrels to one side, do it for the people 🙌
@@s_9878 I agree. I'll contribute $10 to the shipping cost. It will be a lot more but if more people pitch in it won't cost much.
Honestly man, I hope you get rich. You have done a lot for DJ culture and I respect how you answered your critic. You are a boutique small business in a very niche market and having been successful is strong testament to your work. A lot of people who work for corporations don't understand how expensive and time consuming running an independent business is. Keep Spinnin'!
As a Condesa user and very very picky customer when it comes to SOUND (because is all about the SOUND), i can guaranty that in every party / sound system we mounted Condesa it has impressed everyone with the Sound it produced “despite those graph measurements”!
Despite the measurements (tho still better than the original Bozak) this mixer brings smile to the audience.
There is always place for improvement and Mehdi is very receptive and acts swiftly to critiques especially here was useful for him to start using only branded components.
As a happy customer and with a pretty expensive studio i consider to have paid a very fair price, for the SOUND IT PRODUCES and for the heroic labour that is to build a Through Hole Discreet Point to Point Wiring, also hand build with passion and love.
If sound for you is “Just Good Enough” and don’t care about human craftsman building your mixer, well an Omnitronic is good enough.
by the way SMT circuitry NO THANKS ( if you know you know )
@@Bigger-Circuitry-Bigger-SOUNDI've used this mixer before and seen riggers run em. They sound amazing the only concern to me is the caps. If they've improved then np but especially when it's a ball ache to fix you don't want them blowing up fast. My soundcraft mixer has high harmonic distortion but sounds fucking amazing when doing mix downs. All down to preference at the end of the day. Personally hate all these modern digital mixers. Awful pre amps and you gotta keep an eye on your gain staging constantly. If I've got headroom I wanna be able to run the gain hot, get in the reds and bask in the distortion! Digital almost always sounds terrible when redlining it's what puts me off them. Even w sub mixers monitoring levels.
The whole point of these videos is to test mixers from a purely objective and measurable standpoint, no marketing, no audiophile bs buzzwords, and no biases. Does the Condessa measure badly? Yes, Does it use relatively cheap components? Yes, Does it have high distortion? Yes. All of these factors have been tested objectively. Do people love the Condesa from a subjective unmeasurable position, ALSO YES
exactly this
Biased and not honest because the sequence of words are carefully made to trick and influence the uninformed viewer in their mixer choice:
- First CONDESA never came out to be the mixer that meats the “expectation” of random RUclipsrs
- Condesa came out as an IDEA to create a modern fersion of the Vintage Bozak 2DL (through hole discrete point to point wiring circuitry) but with modern features and workflow so the only point of comparison should be the Vintage Bozak 2DL if you want to be honest and not whatever expectations from random youtuber self proclaimed “Rupert Neve of Balcans”
1. Condesa has a better THD than Vintage Bozak so it is an improvement YES
2. In blind test people chose the sound of Condesa over any other mixer as more OPEN and Spacious YES
3. Sound is not just a measurement, first of all it has to be pleasing to the listeners and considering implicitly as “stupid” who bought Condesa because they listen with ears and not with eyes looking measurements IS PRETTY DAMN ARROGANT and good luck with that atitude
4. the talking point of HI FI community of “listening music in hi fi how artist intended” is TOTAL NONSENSE as you can listen music like artist intended only in the same exact room with the same exact equipment otherwise it is always different
5.People Pay for the amount of labor to build CONDESA the only mixer DISCRETE THROUGH HOLE POINT TO PIUNT WIRING and it’s SOUND , when people listen to Condesa in every sound system they remain amazed exactly like the vintage BOZAK do (not the modern Bozak)
Now you want to challenge Condesa Philosophy and that can be a good thing but you do it in the right way:
- Build a mixer with superior THD and componente ( please note that you don’t have credible talking point to debunk any product if you don’t build one yourself to prove your worth, words are just words)
- Than do a Blind test with top notch Mastering Engeeniers and ask which mixer sounds better to the expert ear
a Minimoog software is perfect on paper and never drift out of tune but people still love the depth of the sound of the vintage hardware minimoog inside a mix.
SOUND is perceived it is physical it has dimension that’s why we love stuff that on paper we shouldn’t, i can name you hundreds of audio equipment / instruments
You can build the most perfect Mixer in paper but than if people don’t like it’s sound whats the point ,
IT IS SO SILLY TO GIVE DETERMINISTIC OPINIONS CONSIDERING ONLY MEASUREMENTS AND NOT THE FINAL GOAL OF THE PRODUCT WHICH IS THE SOUND 🤦🏼♂️
@@Bigger-Circuitry-Bigger-SOUND i think we had very simmilar discussion couple of days ago and i thought we understood each other. Please take into account that this video series focus on technical stuff and measurements, not the sound and i think this might be a source of biggest confusion and emotions.
I obviously agree with your point of view, that ears are most important while buying sound reproduction devices. The point of my reviews is to take a look what technical sollutions were used in the process of making DJ mixers. My videos can't be treated as a proper guide giving you full image while choosing a mixer.
I also never said that high THD means bad sound. I even said the opposite - please check out my Bozak AR-4 video, there is a sound experiment with saturator that adds THD and you can finally use your ears there.
If you consider this content useless i have good news for you - you will find a lot of stuff focused on sound impressions only elsewhere.
Since we are repeating ourselves i strongly suggest to end this discussion and go in peace to opposite directions.
The idea of listening to music is to enjoy it. So what I’ve learned is, the more thought out the parts are used, the more pleasing the sound is, regardless of the price of the parts used . I’d rather have a great sounding and feeling mixer with whatever cost of parts is used, than a mixer with the most expensive parts that doesn’t sound and feel as good, TO ME!
@@HouseMusicDefined fully agree. My only question is why are Condesa mixers marketed as something better and more expensive in terms of manufacturing costs when we can see a lot of basic, inexpensive parts here. These mixers do not outperform the competition when it comes to the quality of the components used. Maybe they have better feeling and sound for someone, but why do they talk about manufacturing costs as an advantage? This is the part I can't fully agree with.
Have my popcorn ready for the comments section
🤣
thanks for our work. i would be curious about an ARS mixer and the DJR , Rodec 180
Or this rotary from Varia Instruments.
I would love to know your review about my Resør Darth
@@xavierlanau4224 there is only one way to do it :)
Looking forward to you opening up formula sound FF4.2 R
Kamil at it again! Not using auto subtitles for your videos gets my salute. What I can gather from the comment section (including comments from the designer) is that the newer models are improved in many ways. Let Mr. K test one of those and buy the man some coffee
Thank you so much for review! Definitely interesting and uniq content. There are still so many analog mixers for review, so don't stop please!
Those last words are pretty key for me. Hopefully one day we will get that. I’m also in the queue if you start performing Omnitronic upgrades. 😜
Hi, Im in progressed to build mixer base on Boazak circuitry. And I belived in Summing Amp circuit area, it using JFET transistor which is hard to find.
My question, What type /series of JFET they are using ? thanks
Another great look at a mixer inside! Thank you! I have a Condesa Lucia from 2017. A few times since then I've hooked up my Rane Empath because I wanted to cut and scratch some beats with the crossfader, but after 15 minutes of hearing records through it I couldn't take it anymore and hooked Lucia back up. A fader pot started getting scratchy due to use of cutting volume fades against an echo to sound like cutting doubles and trying to scratch using the fader. I asked Condesa for the part number so I could replace it and instead they mailed me (to another continent) a new one at zero expense to me. I'm not famous, just another music nerd and delighted customer. That is all I know.
@@thisoldhouz thank you for sharing your perspective. As a technical reviewer I don't take into account things like customer service and subjective sound impressions. I'm happy about your positive experience with Condesa brand.
I had an empath for about a week. It was the coldest most sterile mixer I have ever heard.
Im suprised how much cheap materials are used in this mixer.Thanx for this episode and keep them coming!
Keyword was at the end of the video "relatively cheap"... No exotic parts are used, but readily available and reliable parts that do their job just fine. Sticking to well known, common brands won't change the fact that the circuits themselves are rather limited and introduce distortion by design.
If you want to talk about cheap parts wait until you see the insides of a DJR-400 🥲
@@juicythedj750personally, at the end of the day it’s how it’s sounds
I love these reviews, but would still urge anyone to seek out & listen to what they're curious of & judge for themselves.
I can definitely respect the points raised in this, but that doesn't influence the opinion of what my ears heard when using & owning multiple versions of Condesa mixer.
I'll add that I don't actually own one at the moment & so no ownership bias on my part
Thank you for this important reminder, using our ears when choosing the mixer is obligatory.
Excelente gracias 😊 🎥 🍿
Thank you Kamil :)
Fascinating, if I had any technical knowledge I’d attempt to copy the Bozak mixer, if I knew of a way to incorporate a modern cue/master blend circuit
@@cowboyhank456 you can find out exactly how to do it in my Rane MP2016S video.
Anyone here have experience with or used Djr400 or variainstrument rdm40 , to compare to this condesa Carmen ??
@@nandobelt8687 yes, i had DJR400 for repair and i've seen the internals. DJR400 is very different from Condesa. It's IC based, most circuits (phono preamp, EQ, summing amp, headphone amp) are based on UREI1620. DJR400 also doesn't have output transformers, the balancing there is IC based using THAT chips (same sollution as Mastersounds Radius). So yes, Condesa and E&S are very different inside.
Condesa > 400 sound wise?
Thank you
@@nandobelt8687 you will find a lot of sound impressions on the forums. All of them are subjective personal opinions and i recommend making you own opinion based on listening to both mixers. I would say that soundwise i heard a lot of good sounding parties on Condesa and E&S as well as bad sounding parties on those mixers. When choosing a mixer it's important to also be aware of what's going on in the whole signal path and being aware of the character of mixer you want to choose and fit in. Hope you will figure out how to check those mixers, good luck!
This soldering like nightmare
Gracias por la informacion, me encanta tus videos un saludo cordial
Hi and thanks so much for your video series! I built myself two of those Pathos mixer and im curious if you could share if they used the 2n3822 in the Condesa?
@@wawajanvier i had problems with identifying jfets in this one.
@@mixersinside ok thanks and keep up the good work, so interesting 🤘
Very informational content here
Another great video! I guess I share your opinion. The way the mixer is built (THT components, soldered cables, stacked boards) gives the feeling of handcraft, which in general is a positive thing. At the same time it does not only make it more expensive, but also decreases the sound quality with all the noise radiation and parasitics. So as you said, building it in a more clever way would make production cheaper and the money could be spent elsewhere (i.e. better components). Also, while I get the idea of a "coloured" sound, this is way too much distortion for me personally plus the harmonic spectrum does not look as nice as I thought with the 3rd hamonic being dominant. I just rewatched your AR-4 video and look at that, Bozak managed to create a way more "ideal" harmonic profile. So yes, I get the other comment from someone saying it is not coloration but bad design. You could probably lower THD by 20dB if you build the same circuit on a well laid out PCB with SMD components, but then would it still have the same character as a product? If you like it or not, the whole mystery, fandom, looks, price, marketing etc. are all things that make people buy or don't buy mixers. So thank you for making these videos to clear up some of the bs and have a more technical discussion :)
I was curious and measured the Pathos Mixer I built. Around the same THD as the condesa...
@@dedondigital you won't lower the THD especially that much with the methods you described. It's more about setting the transistors operating points. High THD was achieved on purpose here.
At the end of the day its all down to personal preference. I have owned & sold a number of mixers & still own a couple that have been reviewed, but keep going back to the condesa because for me it sounds best. Great review that gives insight on the mixers & respect what has been pointed out but its always worth playing/listening to a mixer to make an informed decision if you(personally) prefere the sound of mixer A vs mixer B...
@@rmicgroove fully agree, thank you for sharing your point of view.
People talking here about hifi while playing scratchy and poorly recorded and mastered vinyls.
I have owned 3 different models of Condesa from early carmen to lucia and carmen again. Each unit had a different sound character. If you asked me which one I loved the most. It was the one with the serial number 002 carmen which had totally bozak vintage sound. It fit perfectly with my records and some of them are dusty and has a sligtly scratched surface.
I have also owned taula and resør mixer. At the end it is subjective with the sound.
Some people they buy brand new dj mixers and amplify them 50 years old vintage amplifiers and expecting to hear hifi sound…
Condesa is about musicality and this mixer has been all about this for me at the time I used it.
If you want yourself hifi setup than buy a proper amplifier and proper speakers, keep the signal path as short as possible and enjoy the ride.
Have you ever consider iso420 and ars9100? Or have you tried them?
@@your_unforgetable_moments Ofcourse I did. Especially Isonoe. Never tried these two.
Gracias por tus videos!! y gracias por tu aportacion sobre el DIY dj mixer
You should make a mixer .....
@@Astroboytoy please check my channel, i describe the process of making a mixer.
Reason for high cost: person hours, in Australia.
@@GregQchi work smart not hard!
@@GregQchi 😬
@@mixersinsidelegitimately what he said is right, you should make yourself aware of the costs of doing business in Australia, parts are cheapish, labor and tax is not. The other thing about discreet circuitry like this is that it's serviceable, unlike cheap SMD mass produced parts.
@@danieleden1856 yes, i agree with your opinion regarding costs of running business and labor. My first comment was a bit exaggerated, but i just still think that some unnecessary work was done here to assemble the mixer. This unfortunately means unnecessary work to service (disassemble) the mixer.
The thing I hope to show on my channel is that SMD parts are just common in modern electronics. Discrete circuitry can be done using only surface mount (SMD) parts. Some very good parts are made only in SMD now! (for example JFE2140 jfet pair which is discrete).
SMD parts are also very serviceable, they are pleasure to work with while making repairs. It takes less time to disassemble and assemble SMD part.
@@mixersinside so which mixer out there sets the benchmark for both electronics and price?
I have the Isonoe 420, a couple of Alpha Recording Systems, a Condesa, a Taula, a Formula Sound.
Super interesting!
Great job and thanks for these unbiased reviews! ❤️ I was just wondering if the nonlinearity measurement is the only and most important feature to characterize the sound and performance of a mixer. I have read somewhere people talking about the transient response, which should translate in how dry or wet the time dynamics would sound. Have you ever done some tests in this direction?
@@EmanueleVirgillito squarewave testing can also give you some interesting info. THD is the simplest way to check how much color is added. Apart from this there are lots of parameters to check: intermodulation, crosstalk, signal to noise ratio etc.
I have always believed that this mixer is overrated. Please note, I am not suggesting it is a poor-quality mixer, merely that it does not live up to the hype. Additionally, audiophiles can often display a concerning level of naivety.
Great job!👏🏼
Do you have in program the trm-222? Thx
@@mikeheel2568 yes, coming soon.
@@mixersinside I bought it and I'm waiting for delivery...
Another great video.
Interesting point at the end about discrete and IC designs, with discrete designs often being more expensive. I imagine the costs are more to do with manufacturing as IC designs are generally simpler and therefore easier to automate some of the production process to keep costs down?
Discrete designs seem to often look a lot more complicated with more components with likely less automation in the production process. Seems with discrete designs that maybe time and effort spent in manufacture is a large driver of cost and there is a trade off then with internal component quality to keep costs down.
Because it is discrete and more hand assembled, it is then easier to market as being premium / luxury to justify the higher end price of the product
@@moket123 discrete and IC assembly is nowadays equally easy to automate, especially when speaking about SMD parts.
@@mixersinsideyeah fair point but then I guess you can't say it's been hand crafted and it's "more than just a mixer" and have people thrown their money at you
I would love to see you touching the Iso420
Can you tell us how old is this condesa carmen that you tested? I can’t tell but i believe they improved it over the years. It would be fair to say how old is this mixer that you tested.
@@jernejm_ its circa 2017
Thnx for doing this 🤝
Buen analisis. Esperando por Alguna reseña de isonoe😊
gorgeous mixer...sound is incredible
I own a pathos.. built with some hi end guts..
Depending where you are buying parts for this mixer build is not cheap and it just a mixer no isolator installed no vu meters
Still need to get a case then get faceplate made.
So the owner of Condessa is a genius . If using cheap components his mixer sounds amazing , i can't imagine if he use high end
Thank you for a honest review. And keeping things as objective as possible. Unfortunately I have a different opinion.
There are certain acceptable boundaries within which equipment can be considered hi-fi or high-end. Looking at the measurements and the internal construction, this is neither hi-fi nor high-end, even though at first glance, with its wooden casing, it might give that impression. I'm shocked at how poorly the internals look - let's be honest, a mess of cables just invites noise issues. Carbon 5% resistors. Cheap electrolytics. And don't even get me started on the serviceability of this device. A THD of -56dB isn't "coloration," it's just bad design. I believe a mixer should be as transparent as possible. The nonlinearity of the isolator is also shocking - I feel like you can actually hear it when the isolator kicks in? I wanted then to check how the manufacturer specifies these parameters, so I went to their website… and they don't specify them. Probably because they're so bad.
For everyone who's bought into the hype about the wonders of this mixer - I could sum it up as a not very successful copy of a Bozak, just in a prettier package.
This 👍👍👍
Have you used a condessa?
@@AndreasSpaar the thing many people may disagree with is "I believe a mixer should be as transparent as possible" part.
Often on club soundsystems and when listening to club music the preffered sound is the colored one. Please do an experiment (i made it in my Bozak AR-4 video) and add saturation to audio. It starts to sound "fuller", it gains more "body". There are obviously some side effects of adding this kind of coloration too.
Condesa is praised for its "warm" and "full" sound and as i said in the review i fully agree with the creator that discrete designs like this can sound very pleasant. In this case i'm personally not a fan of calling high THD "bad".
Oh no, he did it 🙄. I mean, giving away the internet's best kept secret (the Pathos DIY mixer)...
😂
Thanks! What's next?... Isonoe 420, Resor 2525 FX, Varia Instruments RDM 20... 😊 looking forward for new episodes!
OG Urei 1620 i think... a holy grail for many people
Varia Instruments !!!
Isonoe 420 pls - this is the one I think
My mate job is to assembke these things..... Oof
wOOt!
Condensor mixers are way over priced. I get it that they are hand building them but i think they should make it affordable to the masses. unless they wanna identify themselves as a high-end brand. the components (icu, capacitors, pwr supply etc) used in those mixers are relatively inexpensive and has no higher build qualities than those found in lesser priced mixers
You don’t listen music with your eyes!!!
On paper Bozak was a cheap components mixer, Minimoog was a cheap components synthesiser, Oberheim sem 8Voice etc etc, but even Behringer tried hard to replicate them with SMT they absolutely failed to achieve the sound of original machines.
So you are talking from a Young Technician / Optimisation point of view (with a spice of arrogance in my humble opinion) and you are not considering that what metters is the SOUND.
i can guaranty you that in every sound system we have put a Condessa everybody was blown away for how pleasant the sound is.
Now as you was pretty arrogant on determining how this mixer should cost (still we have to see what you are capable of building beside opinions) i challenge you to build me the same mixer with better components all throw hole point to point wiring for a cheaper price and i ll buy the 001 product from you?
@@Bigger-Circuitry-Bigger-SOUND thank you for commenting. If you're familiar with my channel you obviously know that i'm here to comment technical sollutions, not the sound. I never said Condesa sounds bad for a single second of my video, and i even agreed while commenting the words of the maker that it for sure may sound pleasant.
Regarding the costs it will be possible to make it much cheaper by changing the design to a more mass production suitable one. If you think that things like through hole parts and hand assembly can make a difference then i advice you to stick to Condesa and pay the price for their hard work. Again in my video i didn't say anything that would show that Condesa mixer is too expensive. I said that i disagree that electronic components that this mixer is made of make this machine more costly than other mixers and i'm suprised that nobody so far made a good sounding, cheaper discrete mixer (and it is possible to do it).
Regarding your challenge i'm not interested, especially to work with through hole technology - i prefer to work with SMDs.
@@mixersinside Man you can suggest technical solution ONLY IF YOU BUILD SOMETHING till than you only SPEAK.
PROVE YOU WORTH BY BUILDING YOUR STUFF BETTER THAN OTHER BRANDS or limit your self to share info not opinions, opinions create expectations and if you don’t build a better solution you result in a LITLE BOY EXALTED TO SHOW OF WHAT HE HAS STUDY AT SCHOOL TO SATISFY THE EAST EUROPEAN PROUD SICK EGO.
as an East European man to another East European man i suggest you to be careful of that attitude as it will not bring you so far.
cheers
@@Bigger-Circuitry-Bigger-SOUND thank you for expressing your doubts. I try to present mostly facts but it's hard to not express opinions at all. My opinions are based on my experience with electronics which consists not only of making devices but developing the products in bigger, less boutique company. I agree with you, that proving everything by making it on your own would be the best. I hope that in the future you will have opportunity to both play on mixer made by me and buy a low cost discrete mixer that will sound very good from the company that will decide to do it.
@@mixersinside you do a great job if you open and just share info what is inside with ought opinions that can easily trick un experienced people but by giving opinions you can influence un experienced audience and do a huge harm to small companies.
Mehdi is a “hero” and a treasure that he manage to build in a resonable price a 100% all Through Hole Hand build Discreet Point to Point Wiring for all those people that cares about and there is no good fir your marketing in harming other companies it just back fires!
I hate SMT and i can prove you that in terms of sound (sound is a phisical thing which is percived and not visualised) it is far less pleasing than Through Hole Discreet.
now let me give you some examples where Theory Measurements failed to how sound was perceived.
- Bozak 2DL is made with of the shelf components of the era and is still the most pleasing sounding mixer despite his very high THD (bozak has a THD higher than Condesa)
-Moog Minimoog made with far cheaper components to save on costs than the modular also with a topology circuitry bug and it is still the most beautiful sounding Monophonic synthesizer no clone has achieved the depth of the sound like the original.
- ARP2500, ARP 2600 blue marling / gray mini again cheap components of the era full of circuitry errors and NOTHING NOTHING in the WORLD SOUNDS AS MAGICAL AS THOSE MACHINES
you was right to criticise that Condesa should use the same branded components like in the ISOLATOR through out the entire circuitry (their costumer deserve it) but to be honest Bozak was made with cheap components too you should point out this too.
Why Condesa costs, because it is an insane hand labour work with Discreet point to point wiring and you know it and is dishonest to point out just the cost of a single non branded Capacitor to trick the viewers, people pay for the human passion and love of building something with hands (not every one is just a pragmatic good enough whatever)!
As an older guy with a bit more life experince than you i recommend you to create bridges and not distractions you should be inspired by Condesa and if you are capable build something better on top of it.
If you would have made this video showing how you would have build your own version of Condesa all through hole point to point discreet but with even better components you would have gas my respect and my money (i bet you have study electronics to make a living).
cheers
@@Bigger-Circuitry-Bigger-SOUND i get your point of view. Please note, that i didn't comment sound of Condesa. All the words i have used in the light of high THD were suggesting that it can result in pleasant sound.
Regarding THT vs SMD - we can argue forever cause we have different points of reference. Many great sounding mixers let them be warm or transparent (UREI 1603, MasterSounds Radius, Rodec MX00 series) are based on SMD parts. Most modern devices also use SMD parts (signal from your mixer runs through many other elements like amplifiers, AD converters etc - they also reproduce sound). Through hole (THT) and surface mount (SMD) is the difference in mounting as the name implies, and using SMD parts doesn't indicate that sound quality compromises were made.
Some of the very fine audio components are available only in SMD nowadays. This technology helps to reduce lead inductance, loop areas which results in better signal integrity that leads to lower noise pickup and better stability of the circuits. It also helps to mount the parts in cheaper and more effective way without any quality loss.
If you say that THT sounds better i can believe you or not, this is your opinion i respect, but there are no scientific reasons for using THT.
Pathos 🍒