Why George Lucas first REJECTED this Lightsaber Duel in The Empire Strikes Back.
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- In this behind the scenes look at the choreography of the duel between Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader in The Empire Strikes Back, we learn about why George Lucas originally refused it.
#starwars #lukeskywalker #darthvader
As amazing as it would have been to see a prequels-style lightsaber duel in the OT, Lucas made the right call.
Well said!
he should have stayed consistent
Vader was old and crippled and Luke wasn't experienced enough for a prequel style lightsaber duel. It wouldn't have made any sense.
@@baron7755He didn't have to. One of the reasons behind the conception of the prequels was to show the Jedi Order at their peak.
Good choice by George - over-styling this fight would have robbed it of much of its impact.
From the word go, Luke is completely overmatched against Vader. He’s got two hands on his lightsaber at all times because he needs both to repel Vader (who is only using one because he’s toying with Luke).
Great comment! Thank you
We saw later on in the prequels that over-choreographing duels lost all the impact. Especially in AOTC
I liked that Vader started tge fight single handed while Luke used both hands. This symbolised that he was no real threat to the Vaders skills with the weapon.
Very well observed! I think he was just playing with him!
@@StarWarsUpdate Agreed. Luke was no threat to Vader at all at that stage. Vader used every ploy on Luke and the end result was inevitable.
I recall that it was Irvin Kershner that originally suggested the single handed use of the lightsabre.
It just shows how George changed so much. I bet post-CGI George would’ve wanted stuff like Luke and Vader swinging on power cables while hitting each other with lightsabers over the crevice.
I absolutely agree with you! I guess it's an example of limitations steering the quality / "realness" of the scene, rather than unlimited options with CGI which tend to push the believability further away if used too much.
I heard they wanted to put it in ROTJ and Lucas still rejected it.
Cool I didn't know that!
SMH
your channel's pretty good yanno. see your shorts a lot and you keep it brief, informative, back it up with good footage and i like the focus on the production of the movies. no hate on channels that are lore-centric but this sort of thing is appreciated
What a great compliment to read, thank you so much!
@@StarWarsUpdate you're welcome ☮
Very interesting
Ah, our beloved fool George. When I was a kid, the first movie I saw of Star Wars was the Episode 1. I immediately fell in love. Then we bought "The Empire Strikes back" VHS and it was a horrible (to me as a kid) boring and ugly old-ass movie with everything being so stiff and the lightsaber duel being a pale shade of anything the Jedi did in "The Phantom Menace". Out of the three original movies the lightsaber fights were becoming a bit better with every movie with only the "ROTJ" ones being the closest to "normal" ones we got in the prequels. So as a kid I was completely sure for many years that the reason they're so horrible in the early movies was because those movies are just very old :) That back then they simply couldn't do it as flashy as it should've been (talk about the abomination involving Vader and the old Obi-Wan in "A new hope"). It always felt that way.
And then many years later I learn that those stiff "old" unipressive fights were made by Lucas ON PURPOSE... Cause he was trying to convey something (his idea that when a lightsaber is turned on it "becomes almost unwieldy"), that as you can see in my book they completely failed to convey and that he himself completely scrapped down the line :)
Fantastic comment! It's so interesting to hear from someone who started Star Wars on Episode 1. As someone who started on the original trilogy, when I watched Episode 1 I was thinking "how come the lightsaber fights are so acrobatic and they're flipping around all over the place!?" I did think it looked cool and exciting, but it made me question whether they were being used "authentically", because I guess my point of reference of how lightsabers were handled were from the originals. So fascinating, thanks for commenting.
@@StarWarsUpdate Thank you!
ICONIC!!!
YES!!
FFS man, this is definitely George's biggest flaw. I wouldn't even mind if he had that mindset even into and through the prequels. Now the duels in the originals are held back ( except for ANH ) are now automatically worse cause they were held back. Inconsistent choices and decision making, along with the consistency of how to craft these films is how it strays away from the quality potential of these films... it sounds like I don't like them at all, untrue I adore all six films. Though some scenes and concepts remaining could've elevated them even further... idk
great comment, thanks
I hate spins and twirls
😆👍 I have to say the duels in the original trilogy between Luke and Vader are way more tense and emotional than in the prequels
The original trilogy duels were more about storytelling than kendo choreography
I'm with you on this. If spins and twirls don't tell the story, they are useless.
@@StarWarsUpdate EP3 Anakin vs Obi-wan have the best of both emotional and looking cool
yeah, i always had the feeling that the fights in prequels were meant to look "pretier" in some way than looking like a real fight, you see they dont even try to hit each other, they just clash the sabers with that fucking spins and twirls they used on all the prequels till someone gets the high ground or yoda come to save their ass. I dont think its bad, i just think it's more choreographed than necessary, overall i prefer the original trilogy one
Why was the lightsaber fight in a new hope made so pathetic
I think it was because Alec Guinness was an old man, and not up to the athleticism and requirements of the duel. So it was very slow paced.
@@StarWarsUpdate they could’ve used a stand in. I just always felt it really did such a disservice to those two great characters, and what was their final battle before one of them dies. It deserved are much more epic and impressive duel
It definitely did deserve a better duel - have you seen the fan reimagining of the duel?
ruclips.net/video/to2SMng4u1k/видео.htmlsi=ny2noMWmefaTo5P_
@@StarWarsUpdate I have indeed. Got it downloaded and saved to my movies folder on my external hard drive. I’ve always wanted to insert it into my movie file of a new Hope and replace that scene, but the version they released on RUclips isn’t HD quality
By far one of the best changes George made. It showed how Luke is still an amateur in dualling, But how powerful and far more experienced Vader is by being the only person who fought with one hand. Character over visuals.
Well said! George really was a stickler for details, wasn't he. I'm so glad he didn't let this one go even though it probably looked very cool.
When George finally introduced a character who fought often with one hand, Count Dooku, everything about his style is completely different, down to his curved hilt. George clearly wanted to show dueling in that way required special training, and wasn’t the most practical skill since even prequel Jedi generally didn’t bother learning it.
To tell you the truth, the original choreograph for this battle would've been more appropriate for Return of The Jedi, since Luke had come full circle in completing his training as a Jedi Knight.
Should have used that choreography for return do the Jedi (with the ending of the fight changed)
That would have been cool
That would have been a pretty good idea.
The 70's had some tight jeans
😆 They certainly did!
Also Mark has really big bells.
😐
George does have a good point about Luke's skills. But I'd have loved to see the other duel in an alternate cut. Least this wasn't stupid like the Palpatine and Jedi fight situation.
I think it was squashed before it ever made it to filming on set, but it would be cool if someone created something using CGI (like they did with that Obi-Wan vs Vader from A New Hope). I personally love the style they went with though, it carries more intensity and emotion the way it is I think.
I hate that Mark’s training looks so much better than the actual fight itself!
Very much more prequel quality lightsabering!
👍 Yeah it looks so cool
I agree with George
👍🙂
Wow he made the right call here. Wish he'd kept that style in the prequels. Those duels are so over-choreographed. He should have taken his own advice.
Great comment, so true!
Can someone tell me why the Return of the Jedi lightsaber fight wasn’t like the first idea for Empire Strikes Back
hmm, I'm not sure what you mean Mitchell, can you elaborate?
@@StarWarsUpdate I mean why didn't Return of the jedi have prequel era lightsaber fighting style
Oh I see now; ok so George's first concept was that the Jedi were like knights, and the lightsaber was very heavy like a broadsword, but I guess he wanted it to look faster and more exciting for the Prequels 😆 - I guess the lore explanation is that Luke was not skilled enough to wield it in the same way as the Jedi in the prequels, and Vader was mostly toying with him.
@@StarWarsUpdate Good points. It Sounds like George Lucas just didn't want to spend anymore money on filming Return of the Jedi
So this is where that story about Hamill saying the Lightsabres are heavy comes from! George was being a dumb dumb and missing a cool fight that would've made the sequence better.
It probably would've made things more complicated for the VFX artists but I think this - from this footage - would've made that fight 10 times better.
Yeah definitely - I think he should have shown Luke to be more of a complicated fighter (with all of the spins and twirls etc) in Return of the Jedi, to show his progress.
the absolute worst change lucas ever made was the palpatine vs windu and jedis.
he and the stuntmen had worked for months on an extremely advanced and faced-paced combat sequence to showcase palpatine’s prowess.
then the literal day of filming george scraps it, tells the stuntmen to F off, and makes Ian (palpatine actor) learn a simpler version of the fight within like an hours of final filming, and made ian do the fight himself.
ian was a senior citizen and not an athlete by any means, plus he was told he wouldn’t have to do the choreography, and then the day of was told he had to do the choreography. so it’s not like he was prepared for it in any sense of the word.
george’s reasoning? we can’t change ian, so we have to bend the fight to his capabilities. yeah you can’t change ian, but you can change palpatine! stuntmen exist For A Reason!!
@@pIayingwithmahwiiLucas changed it the day of, because he knew that the digital face swap onto the stunt performer wouldn’t hold up in close up, and he was right, although he probably could have said that months earlier.
@@drewwhitney7327 Then have him put on a scary mask.
Lucas' version was better. After all, Luke was a NEWBIE with a lightsaber.