Why The Hobbit Sucks Part Four: Bad Romance
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
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Why do people love Legolas and hate Tauriel, when you should hate Legolas and...be completely ambivalent about Tauriel?
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The Hobbit Trilogy is the property of Warner Bros.
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The love song went with Smeagol/ Gollum so well.
jindatesha Thanks! That's one of my favourite parts about the rant as well.
OMG i'm dying. so perfect
I know :D
haha i almost died :)
now I ship it
the Bilbo/Gollum love scene had me dying!!! LOL!
Yessss I literally can't stop haha
i ship it
What he said about the song was so true and the example he gave was the best one possible!
Mind blown!
😂😂
I FKIN SWEAR TO GOD lololol
"His true name you must discover for yourself. But I'll give you a hint: it rhymes with Shmaragorn."
😂😂😂😂
Gotta be weird taking your fathers orders for thousands of years. “When do I become king dad?” “About that..”
I'm fairly sure that Aragorn was using a different name in his childhood to disguise his identity, or that he didn't know it, or something. Why didn't they just use his alternate name here? And why is it Thranduil telling Legolas about Aragorn? It was Gandalf who meddled and set things up to crown Aragorn the King of Man, why would Thranduil care? And why have it happen here, you have 60 years of space between the Hobbit and LOTR, are you telling me that nothing of importance was established at any other point in between? I absolutely hate it when prequel stories that are set decades apart from the original still feel the need to tie everything perfectly as if the original story was about to start directly afterwards.
The Tauriel Kili relationship completely undermines Gimli becoming friends with Legolas and liking Galadriel, overturning millenia of racial strife.
Ian this comment needs more likes. This is totally the comment I was going to make. Can't believe all the lore they screwed over in the hobbit.
Lance Grange oh yeah. I'm not even getting into the fact that Azog over a hundred years before Bilbo was even born, or that Wargs are supposed to be very smart, or... Ugh.
more like it enforces it imo
Henkie
I doubt love triangles are the result of feminist influence.
More likely a cynical opinion of studio executives on what audiences want.
And it keeps Fili and Kili from being with Thorin and Bilbo when they enter Erebor again, the very first time dwarves entered since Smaug overran the mountain. And the most important part of this is the fact that THEY'RE THE ONLY DWARVES IN THE COMPANY WHO HAD NEVER BEEN IN THEIR HOMELAND. Their whole lives they've been refugees, and they're the heirs after Thorin. This should have been a massive moment of character development and a very emotionally moving moment, instead we got a ham fisted love story that is just... awful.
HISHE got the romance right
Tauriel: if this is love I don't want it
Gandalf: my dear you barely knew him. Do you even know his name?
Tauriel: kili....the dwarf? It was real!!!
lol I remember that
"And all because you alluded to the contents within your trousers!" :D
Wonder , infatuation and lust confused for love
What I love about that HISHE is after Tauriel goes away sulking, everyone begins laughing at her. And by everyone I mean Gandalf, Bilbo, Thranduil, Legolas and Thorin. I loved that.
@@tiaaaron3278 What's a HISHE?
Yeah, Legolas was my favorite character...when I was ten.
Samwise Gamgee the real MVP.
No one can one-up the badassness of Sam Gamgee
netherworlde preach
I wish Tolkien had written more about Legolas he was a really cool book character.
Same. Legolas was my favorite for longer than he should have been. I'm honestly surprised how long I liked his character. Now going back and reevaluating LotR Aragorn and Sam are my favorites. So much depth and personality! ^-^
@Bruno Mars he was a friend who never gave up. He did everything for frodo. He cared for him, and even carried him when he fell. He saved him from orcs, at risk of his life and never gave up. He almost drowned to stay with frodo, tell me how that isnt a good guy and a friend anyone whould want
If Jackson wanted Tauriel so badly in the film, he should have just given her all of Legolas's parts that he made up. It's incredibly annoying when female characters are added in just to look hot, be a love interest and "be a badass" and have virtually no character outside of that. As a female fan I would honestly rather have an all-male film than a half-assed attempt at dodging sexism claims. I really expected more after how well he handled Eowyn.
Nena YEEEEEEEEEES SO TRUE. Evangeline Lilly was bloody wasted on this film, it would've been a much better use of her talents to introduce her as an entirely new character without a stupid, half-arsed love triangle getting in the way. Instead of focussing on Legolas getting over his dwarf-racism (which they handled a lot better in LotR with his relationship with Gimli anyway), she could just be the only elf sympathetic to the dwarfs who rebels against her people to help them defeat Smaug.
As much as I hated it, they could even have kept her relationship with Kili in, because without Orlando Bloom pretending to mope in the background they could just focus on Tauriel and Kili developing an actual bond. Although giving her the 'Legolas role' with added sympathy to the dwarves' cause would've been a lot better.
i completely agree with everything you said! Legolas being a dwarf-racist (lmao) is a pretty terrible plot point, because in LOTR he's haughty and kind of rude to Gimli, but it's a lot more playful and has a kind of "eh dwarfs and elves don't get along until they really have to" vibe, which makes a lot more sense and is a lot less Disney-like. personally i think that all the elf stuff was terrible, with the exception of Thranduil's character design. to me, elves are meant to be ancient, strange creatures, not humans with pointy ears. i like that in LOTR (and in the Hobbit novel) they maintain this mysterious, non-human edge, and Jackson ruined that.
Yup! Bloom should have had a cameo in the second Hobbit movie. We'll just see him, maybe he has a line or two. Maybe a short scene! But the elves should not have basically been party members. If you NEEDED more elf material, have just Tauriel follow them. But really, you didn't need more elf material, they just distracted from the dwarfs who were already underserved by the plot. I actually really wanted there to be more of Tauriel and Kili. It felt like one of the few genuine character interactions when they were imprisoned.
ianwestc you're right, and i think you touch on how much in the films is unnecessary. i feel like they put the elves in because they look cool and are recognizable, not because they add to the story, and as you said, the dwarfs were already criminally underwritten. it would have been so much more cohesive to just see Thranduil once in a while, and like you mentioned maybe get a glimpse of Legolas. i don't really agree with you about Kili and Tauriel, but not because i think the scene was bad (it was fine) but because i just can't get past how useless they both are as characters - but that's really subjective on my part haha.
Nena Blame feminists
Bilbo and gollum: not the love story we wanted, but the love story we deserve
the most stupid fact about legolas and Thranduil conversation is that
1) aragor at this moment was 10 years old
2)he dwelt in rivendel with elrond, where he was being educated
3)no one knew of that, the existence of the last living heir of Gondor and Arnor was to be kept secret
4)legolas was sent to the council of elrond to say that gollum had escsped
eodred di acquaneve 60 years would prior to the lotr movies would leave him at 27/28 I thought, but I agree that just mentioning him for the hell of it was kinda pointless
@@Aj9Livess actually there's a 17 year time skip between when Frodo got the Ring and when he starts his journey
Sir Jaojao in the book yes, I thought they overlooked that in the movie
27
His book age is irrelevant if we're going by the film timeline since the 'find Aragorn' thing isn't set up anyway in the book.
He's actually 27 in the movies but you're right he is 10 in the books at this point.
Tauriel should have told Legolas, "It's okay, you'll find a dwarf of your own soon."
"There's only three women in LotR" *shows Merry*
Hey Just Write! Merry =/= Eowyn
"...often, too, they get the girl in the end as icing on the cake." - cut to Charlie hugging Willy Wonka.
@@landochabod7 Clutch redlettermedia quote haha
Alice Cairn I died during that part hahaha
Cringey joke by a cringey idiot.
Oh my god, the Strider thing. I have such a big problem with this. According to the hobbit/lotr timeline Aragon would be 10 when the battle of five armies takes place. What ten year old are people calling strider? He's called that because he's tall, as an adult, not as a 10 year old. That and his fostering by Elrond is a secret, even from Aragorn! He grew up being called Estel by his foster family. Elrond didn't even tell Aragorn his real heritage until TEN YEARS after the events of the battle of five armies.
THIS. That's just sloppy screenwriting. They didn't even bother to undertake a cursory lore review. Two minutes on Tolkien Gateway or Wikipedia could have revealed that.
Seriously?? that's literally just laziness I'm so annoyed.
His in his 20s
Aragorn
I think he was 86 to 87 betewwen fotr and ttw
The reason I like Legolas is because the way he acted in certain situations. Like the scene in Two Towers where the Rohirrim surrounds Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli. When Eomer makes a threat to Gimli Legolas immediately pulls out an arrow, points it at Eomer and threatens him in return. In the Hobbit he's kind of bland, but I really liked him in Lord of the Rings
subseven
He’s really bland in the Lord of the Rings too. I mean that scene that you’re talking about actually really surprised and just came out of no where.
Like this guy is finally showing some emotion. Even Gimli looked surprised.
Dude, if you thought he was better in Lord of the Rings you should read the books. They cut a lot of his personality out of the movies to make him seem like a whimsical, untouchable elf-man, in the books he was a lot more cheeky and playful and emotional than he was in the movies
@@blindeagleace3629 I recommend you rewatch the trilogy again because Legolas shows a lot of emotions and personality throughout. First in Elrond's Council when he defends Aragorn against Boromir. Later after Gandalf falls, Legolas is grieving over him. Legolas even comforts Sam. He also banters a lot with Gimli throughout all three films. He had a strong bond with Gimli and Aragorn in the films. He proper depth, development and personality when you consider his screen time.
@@ruthlesslistener Legolas is a vacant trash can in the book. He never interacts with other characters, he's entirely useless and has no personality. Even Tolkien didn't like Legolas.
@@tiaaaron3278 have a dad Tia!
According to Evangeline Lily, the whole love triangle was added in reshoots at the request of Warner brothers.
She is very clear in interviews I have read that this character was the invention of Fran and Phillipa, with Peter Jackson's agreement. It seems consistent with their impulse to oust Glorfindel for Arwen in LOR, which was just about credible.
The sad thing is it appears that if Guillermo del Toro had directed, the result probably would have been a far better film.
And even worse, she explicitly did NOT want to be in a love triangle, and was promised that she wouldn't be.
@@michaelt.5672 Yeah, the love triangle was added when they expanded to 3 movies and she really didn't want it because she was in a love traingle for 6 seasons on LOST.
I’m willing to bet Legolas’s entire role in this trilogy (beyond the first cameo) was added in reshoots.
I made a fan edit of the films that shaves it down to 4 hours, and Legolas was surprisingly easy to remove. Example - there’s a chaotic fight scene in Laketown where he’s standing six feet away from Tauriel in a small room with a bunch of dwarves and orcs, and there isn’t a single shot where he appears in frame with her. lmao they never intended for him to be in that scene.
@@MatiZ815 A love triangle for 6 seasons? That sounds like torture. For the actors and audience alike.
I almost died of laughter when you played the romance theme with Bilbo and Gollum XD
She is a failed atttempt at Eowin .. sadly.
Yeah...Eowyn had character, and so did Tauriel in a way, but the difference was that Tauriel's character was explored *through* her romance, instead of the reason she's in love in the first place, like Eowyn does. Eowyn has character outside her romance. Tauriel is just given some character, but it's incomplete because it focuses on the romance more than her herself. Eo *WINS* .
She does not hold a candle to Éowyn
Eowyn was written by Tolkien. Tauriel was written by some dumb interns of the movie industry.
@@Amphitera I agree 100%, Eowyn is much more interesting and developed character than Tauriel.
To be fair to Tauriel, the actress didn’t even want her character to be in a romantic relationship. She specifically requested they not to do that with her character when she was hired. It was added in last minute by the writers against her wishes.
I really like how instead of just saying that the love story should have been excised all together like most people, you offer ways in which it could have actually worked in the film with some basic tweaking.
You're right. This video is so good because he identifies the problem and then makes it pretty clear how it could have been better.
If it aint in the books its a problem if a character is made whole cloth its usually shit
@@littlebrainbighead This video sucks because Just Write is an idiot who clearly didn't watch the movies or he would know Thranduil's wife's gems were stolen by Thorin's family.
He's also a Thorin fanboy as he thinks the guy never made a mistake and Bard and his people didn't deserve anything.
@The God Emperor Himself There are so many clues, hints and dialogues that show not all that wealth belongs to the dwarves. First is right on the beginning of the trilogy when Thranduil is visiting Erebor to get his white gems back but Thror (Thorin's grandfather) rudely refuses. Thranduil looks shocked and hurt and Thorin is completely surprised. Why is Thorin surprised? Because those gems belonged to Thranduil. Thror had dragon sickness and kept the gems for himself.
That's what ruined the alliance of Erebor dwarves and Woodland elves.
In Desolation of Smaug, Thranduil tells Thorin "I had warned your grandfather of what his greed would summon."
In Battle of Five Armies, Thranduil says "Heirloom of my people are not forsaken lightly."
Thranduil only wanted what was rightfully his. The gems belonged to his wife. The only thing left of her. The dwarves were the thieves.
The Hobbit trilogy is litteraly a fanfiction of the book
A bad one and I wouldve slapped the person telling me this headcanon.
@@horsthooden4600
Haha. And I laugh-cry!
At least it followed a canon storyline
The filler just ruined it...
I don't think I actually noticed that Legolas was supposed to be in love with Tauriel. I thought he just didn't want any elf to be in a relationship with any dwarf.
Also, what Tauriel and Kili had doesn't even warrant "fling" status.
10 years ago I saw it.
Now I rewatched the entire trilogy and literally this, I think he makes one off hand comment about her having his heart but then he goes off and kills ton of orcs LOL, even funnier that one time he tells her to follow him, she does not and stays with Kili instead and Legolas literally does not realize this as he runs after Bolg in Lake Town to finish off the other orcs.
I no longer see the romance, he just protects her and follow her around, it is more like he finds her entertaining and fun but midway through the story he just starts killing off orcs and never looks back.
I saw it, but I never really bought it? Like...oh yeah, I know how this trope goes, so I know what he's feeling, but it doesn't make sense because there's no real indication that he loves her other than "this is how the love triangle trope works"
To sum up the romance sub-plot in one word: Needless.
+Fuller Mac
No it doesn't. Did you not watch the video?
Fuller Mac No it doesn't. The romance is completely pointless and fails as a romance. He literally explains exactly why in the video.
Fuller Mac You give no argument and say I'm full of shit? LOL
Watch the video before commenting pointless comments that video literally proves wrong.
Fuller Mac Yes I did watch the movie. Several times. And each time I everyone around me thought how useless and unnecessary this forced romance is and how i exists in these movies only to try and compete with Aragorn and Arwin's romance from LOTR, which was much better.
You are the one who has terrible arguments, and the only argument you've given so far is "you're full of shit".
Fuller Mac No. With Aragorn and Arwen you are actually shown a conflict and given a reason to care. Arwen's father constantly tells her that if she stays with him she will suffer because he is mortal and one day he will die.
With Kili and Tauriel all you see is them staring at each other and Kili talking about his dick. It does not in any way "so evidently" serve any plot plot points.
If you remove it from the movies, you lose nothing. It stays the same.
If you remove the romance from LOTR, you remove a huge and vital part of Aragorn's character.
Plus, there's no pay off at the end. Kili dies and Tauriel just cries over this guy she met three days ago and has had no connection or actual conversation with. There was no point to it. It taught us nothing. It served no purpose.
With Aragorn and Arwen, they've known each other for years and have been in love for years, and they have that constant conflict of whether to let go or not.
We learn about sacrifice.
It's a shame too because of how good the actor's are behind these roles.
"Why does everyone love Legolas so much?" I'll tell you: his bromance with Gimli. He'd just be another stuck-up, elitist (very pretty) elf without Gimli, which is why he's not nearly as interesting in the Hobbit movies as he is in LotR. :( :( Seriously, why is he even in this movie?
He's neither stuck-up nor elitist. He is funny, is deeply loyal to Aragorn despite being an Elvish prince and handles Gimli's racist insults with coolness.
He has every right to dislike the dwarves in The Hobbit movies as they are trespassers, enemies and traitors. Thror stole Legolas's mother's jewels.
@@tiaaaron3278 The point is that Legolas and Gimli are written to be together and interact. They are an Elf and a Dwarf going beyond their races history and seeing themselves as people and not part of the "Other".
It's not racist when dwarves fucking assaulted a city of your species some millenia ago to get a jewel, it's hatred that runs deep. And those two overcoming it Is important just like throwing the Ring and become the King you are meant to be.
Sure, as Legolas and Gimli don't immediatly leave Middle Earth, it's a sign that, at last, their races can live together.
He was useless in the hobbit ngl, I didn't feel anything when he was on screen, lifeless, uninspired character...
In the original trilogy, I really think Legolas is a nice addition to the fellowship, but in these poops, oops, I mean movies, he's so useless...
@@nickieb2636 Not more useless than the dwarves, Alfrid, Bard's children, the Master, Tauriel, etc.
The Dwarf-Elf love affair was the worst aspect of this 'trilogy.' It is so forced and out of place. Can film studios accept that not every epic needs a romance? At least make it a believable one. In any case, I don't think audiences would mind an all-male tale.
Also: the elves are far too aloof and mirthless.
The sad thing is I’m told the actress didn’t even want to do the subplot either. She agreed to the role but specifically requested her character not be in a romantic relationship, and the writers agreed but then went back on their word in the sequels. That’s partly why the romance is so rushed and bad, the writers literally came up with it last minute and against the wishes of the actors involved.
had they made some of Thorin's team female, it would've helped set the dwarves apart, at the very least
I disagree with your last point - Arwen isn't aloof and mirthless, and she's an elf. Another elf (Tauriel) also not being so isn't the problem here. The Kiliel romance was certainly unnecessary though, at least with how it was handled
What about the contrived and just terrible implied romance between Galadriel and Gandalf? That shit was pissing me off.
Especially since in the Lord of the Rings, she is married to Celeborn
Why do u think its a romance? Cause she gave him a kiss during the battle with 9? Thats all I remember. Its childish to think of it as a romance based solely on that scene. Any more scenes that prove this? Wtf.....
@@JozinOklepal Him constantly referring to her as "My Lady" and them whispering to each other and her caressing him while he was defeated, then kissing him. Yeah...
Pretty awkward when you realize that she stayed in Middle Earth to be with her husband Celeborn who refused to leave until Sauron was defeated... Who doesn't appear in this film at all. Yes, it was implied romance. No one doubts that.
@@Akiraspin "my lady" is a sign of courtessy, respect. She is the eldes firstborn remaining in middleearth thus Mithrandir show his respect. Nothing wrong with her carrying him outside of danger. The kiss she gave him is an elvish sorcessry to wake him? Donno. Tis weird but there other characters scenes that are even more divorsed to the realm/story/lore so Im quite fine with Galadriel. Tho movies is just much cheaper version of LOTR series I admit it.....
YES I loved seeing more of Galandriel but I have no idea why they felt the need to ruin her scenes by hinting at something between her and Gandalf.
The stupid thing is, again extended edition, the thing about Thranduils heart growing three sizes is literally a scene between Gandalf and Thranduil in the midst of battle where Gandalf points out that Thranduils wife left him much more than just some jewelry, she left him his son and that he should cherish that over some stones.
weaned awol yeah, they cut out all the good parts. Dunno who's great idea that was
I had no idea the jewels belonged to his wife. Why cut that? It would be his only motivation. Now he just looks like a greedy ass.
Oh man. This movie is a "how not to" prime example.
oof my heart
@@TheOriginalFishPond Because the studio executives were a bunch of sad Thorin fanboys like this uploader who wanted to make Thorin seem good and Bard and Thranduil bad for demanding what belongs to them.
@@schattentaenzerin Even in theatrical version it was said the jewels are elven treasure and are unlawfully kept in Erebor. I don't know why you or this dwarf fanboy uploader didn't pay attention to that.
I think the reason people were so against Tauriel was that she was the poster girl for the central problem with the Hobbit movies - the fact that the original story had been so bloated that it felt incredibly tenuous at best. PJ made three movies from the Hobbit, and instead of giving more screentime to the central characters and developing their arcs more he just added another character. I don't think her gender really factors into people's criticism of her, only the defence made for her addition.
***** I keep seeing Tauriel fans accusing anti Tauriel crowd of being misogynists, but I, a vivid Tauriel hater, NEVER EVER saw someone, who said "I hate this character because she's a woman". "Haters" can give dozens of reasons why they hate her, and none of this reasons are connected to her gender. Hating a female character doesn't make you a misogynists, but some people either too stupid to understand it, or can't say anything else in Tauriel's defense. So, yeah, I completely agree with you.
*****
The "budget" they gave PJ was FAR more than they gave him for LotR. That doesn't enter into it.
The reason that they didn't have more interaction between characters was that they kept adding more and more characters and plotlines.
*****
Yeah, Tauriel was completely invented, and Azog was killed many years before the events of the Hobbit.
I'd suggest just reading the book, it's much better.
+Алина Жидиль But you know misogynists are never self aware enough to blatantly say "i hate women" so that doesn't mean much. They always cover it by crying about "pandering" and out of control "political correctness" because that's the only way to get away with saying "i don't like seeing women and minorities in lead roles" openly.
butterflycaught900
I didn't see anyone saying Tauriel was a problem because of "out of control political correctness". Good strawman there.
I ship Smeagol and Bilbo now.
#Smealbo
#Beagol
Aquin #Bagel
These are all fantastic
@@magiv4205 😂
This is why Gollum has left the mind chat...
I like the Hobbit, but I still dislike Tauriel. She is so naive and runs somewhere without thinking. She isn't completely unnecessary but I wish that her personality would be more interesting.
Edit: About Legolas: I really like him in The Lord of the Rings. Not only because he's handsome and fights pretty cool, he also has an interesting personality and seems (like other elves in LOTR) mysterious. His friendship with Gimli makes him sympathetic and we can see him even joking around.
But I dislike Legolas in the Hobbit, because we can't see anything of his personality, he's very naive just as Tauriel and has, as you said, no motivation to fight and is just there for the love triangle and some cool fight scenes- nothing more.
Legolas has no personality in LotR. He's just a ninja elf who's good at shooting arrows (just like in the Hobbit)
For me, Legolas is very good in original LOTR movies. But did he really needed to be in Hobbit movies?
The sad thing is apparently when the actress was hired she specifically told them she didn’t want to be part of a love story, as she didn’t think it made sense in the story of the Hobbit. That might be why her character comes across as inconsistent, the writers told her they were going to do one thing with her character, and the. In the sequels turned around and went nope let’s do the one thing you didn’t want to do. It might explain why the romance is so lazy, it literally got added in to the script last minute.
The sad thing there was a female character in the books that was a badass and could have been expanded upon in the movies, Bilbo’s mom. The whole reason Gandalf pressures Bilbo into going on an adventure with him in the first place is because Bilbo’s MOM was an adventurer. She did all sorts of brave things and Gandalf was really impressed with her, hence why he insists Biblo has adventuring in his blood too. They could have easily shown some flashbacks about her adventures and used that to further develop Bilbo’s character. It’s clear in the book that he resents her a little because her adventuring took her away from home and gave the family name a reputation.
@@JustAPrayer
Good to know! I'm rewatching the Hobbit again right now and got back to this video for that reason. I'm glad I did, because the Info about Bilbo's mom is something I completely forgot (haven't read the books for a long time)
Gollum: Yes... yes just us
Bilbo: *_Unzip_*
Why didn't Thranduil just say: "Go find a ten year old who will be called Strider later on in the future."
because hes not 10 hes 27
@@OoELITEPLAYERoO Actualy during the action from the Hobbit bookAragorn is 14 but in the Hobbit movies he could be at least 26.
Wow your suggestion for a Legolas arc is actually really good. Like, REALLY good.
joemaster312 i’m gonna start believing his story is the legit one. That was epic
It's an awful suggestion for the sole reason that Legolas never hated the dwarves. Gimli was always the prejudiced one.
If they wanted another female character, why not add Dis, Fili and Kili's mother? Why conjure up a useless new elf character?
Grace lim I think the answer there, unfortunately, is "elves are pretty."
+David Howard Even if that's the case, I wouldn't have a problem with Dis. After all her place truly is in the Hobbit movies.
Grace lim omg thank u so much!! this is how it should have been!!
Because the audience wouldn't like a bearded dwarf female, lol
Grace lim because the adrenaline rushed guys watching the movie would drop their boners to some bearded woman
5:48 that music worked for gollum and bilbo so well it was hilarious 😂
Kimli and Tauriel makes Anakin and Padmé dialogue looks like Shakespeare.
At least we turned those dialogues into memes. Here, there’s nothing to salvage
At least they spent a lot of time together.
Legolas is my favourite of the Fellowship by far. That being said, he had far too much of a role in the Hobbit movies. A minor cameo in Mirkwood would make sense since he's, you know, a Prince of Mirkwood but that's it. Like "Oh sweet, Legolas is there in Mirkwood. Okay back to the story." Really, if I want to see Legolas be awesome I'll watch the Lord of the rings movies again.
Legolas sucks in the LotR movies
He totally could have worked. There were plenty of nameless elf segments. He could have found the drunk captain of the guard, or found Bilbo after the battle.
While I like your idea for the alternative character development for Legolas, his established racism against Dwarves has canon roots. His father, Thranduil, was the son of Oropher, who hailed from Doriath and hated Dwarves for shit that went way back with the Silmarils.
Legolas is racist against Dwarves because he was raised that way.
I like what Peter Jackson was trying to do-- giving him even more reasons to hate Dwarves because one of them stole his girl-- but he really went about it in a clumsy way.
Not to mention Dwarves hurt his family, stole their treasures and trespasses into their realm.
@The God Emperor Himself Except that's Middle-Earth not our world. Realms and borders are important and need to be respected. Add that to the fact this was Company of Thorin Oakenshield, the kin if the guy who backstabbed Thranduil and stole his wife's gems.
@The God Emperor Himself Where did you get that? It's impossible that someone as protective as Thranduil would leave his wife's necklace in battlefield especially since her body was apparently completely destroyed as there is no grave of her according to Legolas.
By the looks of the opening scene, it was obvious both Thorin and Thranduil expected Thror to deliver the gems to elves. So it seems Thranduil gave the gems to Erebor willingly. The gems were there because Thranduil wanted the dwarves' craftsmen (best in Middle-Earth) to fix his wife's necklace. It's another sign that shows how much Thranduil trusted Thror.
@The God Emperor Himself His mother died in Battle of Angmar which occurred between Dunedain and elves against the Witch-King. That's why in the movies Gandalf says Angmar shouldn't rise *again* . And Thror obviously knew the gems belonged to Thranduil. Why else would he invite him to Erebor halls? Thror was being a greedy jerk.
"Since your basically Batman"
The great thing about these essays is you dont just say "this was a bad idea", you actually offer great ways they couldve been made better. As one quora writer put it, "a good idea executed poorly will be remembered as a bad idea"
Orlando Bloom did the best he could with the role.
YES
Orlando Bloom did the best he could with the paycheck. Don’t blame him.
@@evanbelisle8464 I'll blame him for taking the paycheck instead of having some balls and integrity like Vigo.
@@LordVader1094 To be fair, he probably didn't know it was going to be bad when he took the roll.
8:01 Stockholm Syndrome is when two people who spend a lot of time together inadvertently develop feelings, like a captor and captive. That is the Nightingale effect, when a caretaker like a nurse falls for their patient after caring for them (e.g what happened in Back to the Future.)
Michael Snow no... I think you need to look up what Stockholm syndrome means!
The mistake was fixed in the closed captions
3:50 "There's only 3 women in LOTR" LOLOL
Lmao how you gonna diss my boy Merry like that.
Fuckin' savage
The funny thing, the actors who played Merry and Tauriel dated for 5 yeard IRL.
marcmarc1967 RIP lol
Can't forget Lobelia Sackville-Baggins
"Oh, that's not love, my dear -- you barely knew him, for like two days!"
"It was REAL!"
"What was his last name?"
"Um, the Dwarf? Kili the Dwarf?"
All of Tariel's scenes could have been given to Beorn since he was actually a main character of the books. What a shame they had to go and ruin The Hobbit.
Well, except for the love triangle with Legolas and Kili. :P
Justice for Beorn. Haha.
@@mattiasandersson1276 Well.....
Can't do that cause he's a guy! Can't have TOO MANY well written female characters!
Late in finding this, but always had this to defend Taurial: If she were not there, then Legolas would get even MORE screentime.
More reason to hate her. Tauriel is non-canon garbage with trash romance and no character. I would have liked more Legolas instead.
@Merciless Freak Legolas was also trash in this movie. So fuck both of 'em.
IMO Tauriel is good because she makes Legolas look even better.
Like she is there romancing Kili and shit meanwhile Legolas is out there with the biggest kill count of orcs in the entire series.
Like holy shit even his father the king and the main character Tauriel do not fight as good as Legolas does.
Holy fuck your idea for changing the romance sub plot was brilliant and makes so much more sense.
The part that drove me mad was when Tauriel asks "why does it hurt so much?" and Thranduil answers "because it was real."
The only thing missing from that scene was for Thranduil to turn to the camera and wink. It was one of the most fake parts of the whole story! Not only does it have nothing to do with the story in the book, but even as a stand alone story it fails. I guess Jackson figured that that line might help us to buy such a desperate story, but for me it only makes me even more angry. They botched a completely fabricated storyline, and then force the notion that "it was real" down our throats. The irony of the line only brings more attention to how made up it is (to me anyway).
I hate to bash Jackson like this, because the LOTR movies are some of my favorites films ever (even if they are not entirely perfect) and he apparently had many problems making these films, AND even with all that there are still many things about these movies that I really do like; but, I'm sorry, he lost focus with these films big time.
that's why we need this:
ruclips.net/video/lRgx6gQ-kh0/видео.html
Would there have been a romance if Kili looked more Dwarvish instead of the pretty boy version in the movies? Would it have been believable?
5:53 omg so true play that music over anything and they are fallin in lovee, aww poor lil gollum soo sweet
Idk man, the Gollum Bilbo romance was pretty on point for me, really got me invested in the movie.
Many people rant about Tauriel, but her character is not the problem, but what they did with her. She first comes as a good fighter, competent and ... But, Jackson just use her for a shitty romance. They included her in response to the feminist criticism, but he did the same cliche that every movie with a female role do: turning her in a love interest. Why she need to get stick in a fucking romance? We saw in movies like Aliens and Mad Max: Fury Road that you can create a great female role and you don't need to turn her in a love interest. Even Finding Nemo did better than The Hobbit.
I feel really bad for Evangeline Lily. She agreed to be in The Hobbit as Tauriel as long as they didn't make her story into a shitty love triangle, but they did it anyway. I agree so much, btw, and tbh the worst thing they did was separate Fili and Kili at the end when they died in order to make it a tragic romance. Fili and Kili's relationship was totally undercut because of the terrible romance and Fili dies with almost no fanfare. Both he and Tauriel deserved better.
Eduardo Real
P
Thats just a new problem, 'strong female characters' always have to be badass warriors. I mean, its an elf so they're already going to make them OP as fuck anyways, cuz all elves are super ninja warriors these days.
Dwarfurious and when they are 'badass', they most often swear all the time, or have the whole 'fuck the rest of the world' attitude of a 16 year old, or are just ... bad people.
I seriously don't know why they even went with that stupid Elf/Dwarf romance, they should have just done Tauriel and Legolas.
'There are only three women in LOTR' Galadriel Arwen Merry. ha ha, that cracked me up.
Parker Nelson Eowyn.
Brinda Kulal Yeah, Yeah, but it was funny because they were saying Marry was a woman.😂😂
Parker Nelson 😂😂😂
Parker Nelson 😂😂😂😂
But I love love Martin Freeman's Bilbo, and his scenes.
"There are only 3 women in LOTR" - that was actually very funny
You can literally count the number of named women in LOTR on one hand.
@@obiwankenobi9141 is it a problem or something?
The worst thing about the love triangle is that it was an entirely a reshoot
9:56 so simple but so much better than the actual 'plot' written by 'professionals!' Why were these films such a mess? It's infuriating how such simple tweaks could have made the story, if not good, at least watchable.
What do you mean? That's an awful idea. Legolas never hated the dwarves in LotR. Just Write is a hack.
I was so disappointed with the Hobbit, but I guess no one is ever going to do a remake :S
Especially Thranduil: he was perfect in every way, except for the fact that he was totally different from the book. For example, in the book he actually did come on the behalf of the humans of Laketown. Furthermore everyone talks about the jewels of his dead wife, but when that would be the reason he would want the gems, it is barely visible in the movie. It would make sense though, now instead everyone hates his behaviour because nobody knows why he would do things the way he does. Well, guess im just going to stick to LOTR...
The stupid, lame ass gem story was made up by Jackson to add drama to Thranduil. They villianized Thranduil for no other reason than to make Tauriel looked good
@@goldenpig0711 Thranduil is a greedy dick in Hobbit book. Movie-Thranduil had a reason to be mean.
@@goldenpig0711 Elvenking was a greedy piece of shit who tried to steal the dwarfish treasure despite having zero claim to it.
@@xWriterclarenocturnexx Helping the people who had lost their homes to dragon is something any half-decent guy would do. That doesn't mean Elvenking wasn't a greedy piece of garbage.
Bilbo says Mrikwood elves are unwise and calls the Elvenking ever eager for more treasure.
Elvenking is an asshole.
wow... it's amazing how changing a few simple things could have made this movie so much better. great job man, love you stuff.
Wow never in my life would I have seen a love scene blossom between Gollum and Bilbo (let alone anyone) but damn, you’re right. That music does it
I think an idea to kinda fix this is to have Tauriel and Legolas be in love. Legolas is more soft towards the dwarves, so he could stay behind and help kimli out of goodwill rather than Tauriel. Maybe even have Tauriel be more against dwarves. This shows how he puts the needs of others over the needs of his heart. Then maybe Tauriel dies in the end, forcing Legolas wanting to leave. She was his only love or something. Idk, but I feel like it could’ve worked.
It's also worth mentioning that Tauriel just so happens to fall in love with a dwarf who looks more like a man. It kind of takes away from the whole 'Elf falling in love with a dwarf' thing. It feels more like Arwen being in love with a shrunken Aragorn. You could make the argument that Kili is a young dwarf, but so are Dori and Nori and they demonstrate the clear difference in physical makeup that Dwarves have with Men.
The romance would have also had greater weight if the film mentioned the ancient hatred between Dwarves and Elves more. I mean, the Dwarves and Elves fought and killed each other in the past. The conflict is not just that they're different races. LOTR should have mentioned this too really, but I guess it would have been a bit time consuming for those films. The Hobbit deals with Elf-Dwarf relations more intensively, so it's more at fault.
Yeah. I'm not against Jackson making Elf OCs to populate the world a little more, but I'm not a fan of _how_ that OC turned out. Tauriel doesn't feel much like an Elf at all (but then again, I've got some feelings about the Wood Elves' representation in the movie anyway), and the whole forced love triangle is just one gigantic pet peeve for me.
I also hate what they did with Legolas' character. I love him in the books, I'm okay with his depiction in the LotR-movie trilogy, I hate him in the Hobbit.
Here's a warrior prince who ceaselessly protected his realm against unending darkness for millenia, and then he just abandons his people in their time of need on a whim?
Yeah. Right.
Getting a small Legolas cameo in Eryn Galen would have been badass, but I'm so unhappy with what we actually got.
Same with that Aragorn mention at the end. You know what, Jackson? At this point in time, Aragorn would have been ten years old, blissfully unaware of his real name and destiny and living a happy life in Imladris as Elrond's foster son. A cameo of that kind would have also been cool - I'd have loved to see little Estel running around in Rivendell.
Alas, we got this trainwreck of an adaptation instead.
Why do you love that useless vacant piece of shit on the books? At least in the movies, Legolas had personality. He didn't leave Mirkwood out of spite. It was a self-imposed exile. He took the side of that treasonous she-elf in the presence of his father's generals. There had to be a consequence for that.
Why don't you complain about the shitty writing of the dwarves?
Legolas was working with Thranduil, so fighting at Laketown would not be 'abandoning his home', but rather defending it. Laketown is in the North. It really depends on how you want to write it. I think the cameo would have been better. Have Legolas show up in Laketown and explain that the Elves had other problems, would have been very interesting IMO. It would set up the tension between the Elves and Dwarves, and serve as a counterpoint to LOTR. The payoff in the trilogy would be seeing Elves and Dwarves work together, not apart, after you see the disaster of Erebor and Laketown with the Elves not being there.
The "your mother loved you legolas" scene is one I actually loved because Thranduil would never talk about his wife, and I think it has some connection with a scene that wasn't in the extended edition (that should have been in the theatrical release) after Tauriel says he has no love, Gandalf tells Thranduil that the gems were not all his wife left him and that she left him a son and that he should value his son more than gems.
Your suggestion about Legolas' character arc is so much better than what is in the film that it's painful that it wasn't thought of
Tauriel and Legolas were so weird together. They had no chemistry. Half the time I wasn't sure that Legolas was even SUPPOSED to be interested in her. They came across like "work spouses", not romantic partners. That being said, neither Orlando Bloom nor the Tauriel actress are terribly good at acting. They were cast mostly as eye candy, I guess, since none of them has a role that's important to the plot. The Fili actor whipped up much better chemistry with the Tauriel actress.
This is what legolas’ scenes should’ve been.
Him killing spiders, him silently next to his dad, him asking dad why he killed orc, him on another smaller elk next to his dad in the battle of five armies. Him struggling to kill Bolg but Beorn helps him by crushing Bolg
5:53 Damn you! Now I'm shipping Bilbo and Gollum.
Movie: the hobbit... About a dwarf and an elf falling in love. Sounds brilliant -_-
Legolas is such a minor character in Lord of the Rings, he only speaks to Frodo ONCE ("And my bow"). At the end, when Frodo sees the rest of the Fellowship, it looks like he says "Oh You". And yet, they decided to make a major plot line around him.
Bilbo and golem falling in love was beautiful
Awesome golem.
10:26 "They're taking the hobbits to Isengard ... Isengard... Isengard
Gard, gard, gard..."
Thus an internet meme was born
3:52 "There is only three women in LOTR" And one of them is Merry? XD
I hate this love triangle bullshit for a single reason: In the original story, The Dwarves and Elves are having some beef with one another, to a point to where at any minute, they could go on to KILL EACHOTHER. There is important tension and suspense, and conflict for Bilbo and the dwarves, in this plot point.
So with this love story between Elf woman and Dwarf Man...
THE SUSPENSE, TENSION, AND CONFLICT OF THEIR HATRED JUST GOES OUT THE WINDOW!! THEREFORE RENDERING THIS EVER IMPORTANT PLOT POINT, USELESS, RUSHED AND DUMB.
Definitely this!! I hated all the unecesarry emotional scenes. Especially from the characters like Legolas who were not even supposed to be in the hobbit.
3:48 Maybe because it's a shitty character? A "sausage party" isn't an issue if all of those characters are good. People really overexaggerate how necessary it is to have a balanced cast gender-wise.
Remember that over the top villain in Titanic? Or the screaming boyfriend in Bee Movie? That’s literally what they did with Legolas’ character in The Hobbit trilogy 😂
To be honest every time when I see the love triangle going on in the trilogy the only thing that comes into my head is that the people working on the trilogy was trying to make it become more like Twilight with the freaking love triangle.
It's no different from the second movie, in which Bilbo's conversation with Smaug was constantly being interrupted with the invented Lake-town Orc invasion nonsense. Jackson assumed we were all just as interested in the goings-on of Legolas and Tauriel as we were in seeing one of the most iconic parts of the book (the Bilbo/Smaug convo) brought to life.
And I disagree that we should be ambivalent towards Tauriel. She was nothing more than a token female love interest. Legolas was also way too prominent a character, but at least his presence makes sense as he is the son of Thranduil and would absolutely have been present in Mirkwood when Bilbo and company arrived.
What I love about your analyses is that it is not just a rant. I like that your rants are well structured criticism, and not just a hissing fit, but that you also offer solutions for the problems posed, like here with Legolas' arc. Thank you and well done. Also, the Gollum love song scene is pure gold
chipping bilbo and gollum really made me chuckle.i agree with your criticisms, noticed most of them before watching this.
not sure about Stockholm syndrome. more like Florence Nightingale effect
What is that?
@@miguelpereira9859 falling in love with someone you are caring for medically
@@420Peep thx
I absolutely LOVE when you play the "falling in love song/music" with Bilbo and Gollum, made me fall in love with that scene. ;D
Legolas in my eyes was the one who never asked and always did the heavylifting staying in the shadow of the plot. I couldnt explain it any beter.
oh my god i could not breathe when you played that love song over bilbo and gollum. That was some amazing scene manipulation!
I love your constructive critics. Not only are you pointing out the wrong decissions, but also are you giving examples for a better plot. Very good and I liked it.
I laughed my ass off over the Bilbo and Gollum scene with that love song! You are brilliant and I love your channel so fucking much
Keep doing what you are clearly very good at my friend
6:10 Haha! That's incredible! That movie score is just so powerful to dictate the feel of a scene - who knew!
..As for the 5 Armies movie - I knew better than to watch it. It was clearly them trying to wring the last drops out of an empty bottle - Middle Earth was clearly and thoroughly tapped dry.
You're awesome and spot on with these videos.
I wish Jackson put as much heart and effort into these as LotR.
Tauriel: there is no love in you
Thundruel: what the hell do you thik how Legolas was born..
The reason why he can't say "Aragorn" is because every Orc and evil creature in Middle Earth would put a target on his head. His identify as per LOTR is meant to be secret. *If* Legolas is sufficiently worthy to earn Strider's trust then he may reveal his true identity to him...
I'm just gonna pretend the movies went how you explained it.
+Sage Rants
"Your mother loved you"
The whole reason Thran-daddy want's the white gems so badly is that they were commissioned from the dwarves as a wedding present for his wife. And upon completion they were kept from him as a bribe to be used to earn the elves submission to the king under the mountain now he held the arcenstone.
After Legolas' mother died, the white gems became all that was left of her memory and union with thranduil.
Thrandaddy's story is one of huge, crippling greif that makes him blind to anything else, He used to be fair and loving of all creatures. His heart doesn't grow suddenly, it's the final coming to his senses that it was not the gems that were his wife's final memory, but legolas. And that losing legolas showed him how far 'too far' was.
This was the plot for Thran' and peter jackson just doesn't know how to write what could have been an amazing sub-plot. Instead he filled his screentime with Grima Wormtongue Mark.2 and that elf/dwarf lovestory.
WOW, I see now how poorly his character arc was executed!
It was better in extended version. The dumbass uploaded doesn't seem to have seen them. What an idiot.
@@yampaamvs Still a better arc than Thorin's awful development. Seriously, Thorin is the worst character in these movies.
@@tiaaaron3278 He has acknowledged the possibility of important scenes having been included exclusively in the extended versions, and proposes that THAT'S EXACTLY THE PROBLEM. In the previous trilogy extended scenes were just bonus scenes with extra lore goodies that general audiences wouldn't necessarily appreciate and that wouldn't advance the plot. To have scenes cut out of the theatrical cut that have direct significance to character and plot arcs doesn't make sense. You don't pay to go to theaters ad see an incomplete movie that works better as an extended version that you would have to purchase later on.
@@llma_0 Boromir is shown to be a jackass in theatrical cut of Fellowship of the Ring. But everyone only ever talk about extended version when it comes to Boromir in movies.
The whole thing doesn't make "Just Write" any less ignorant. He did use scenes from extended version in his other videos and talked about Thorin's funeral. And yet he ignored Thranduil's arc and story completely.
But of course the way he justifies Thorin's terrible treatment of Bard and Thranduil shows "Just Write" is another of those Thorin's fanboys who didn't actually put thought into most these and he clearly hasn't read the books either.
He only made these movies hastily to capitalize on The Hobbit hate bandwagon. This is how he started his channel. His first video that discusses the dwarves is the only well-thought-out one.
"Just Write" = Fool
I totally forgot they went to Gundabad.
What were they doing there again? Looking for plot to justify them being in the movie? ;)
God I've not watched any of these movies again after having seen them in theatres and I cringe so hard at every single line that is being said by Kili during his scenes with Tauriel...
Ok, I am late commenting on this video. But I just discovered your videos and I had to comment on your idea for Legolas story arch. I legit got closer to my screen, it is freaking amazing. damn. I would watch your version of the movies. They sound gripping and emotional and I am so here for such a dark back story for Legolas.
Thranduil tells Legolas that his mother loves him because he is relieved that he is alive after the battle as you can see it in his face he knows that Legolas wants to leave so he tells him that he was loved by his mother because he never spoke of her before this allows Legolas to feel at peace with himself knowing that he was loved
Or they could have just, you know, NOT included Tauriel in the story. Being that she isn't even in the books and all that.
No, they need more women. A man isn't allowed to write a series of books if they don't include enough female characters. Tolkien only got away with it because the Ministry of Feelings didn't exist back then.
Or you could just realize that there are just white dudes in these kind of movies.
No, the story was more popular when it was released as the book without extra women so that politically correct cultists will be assuaged.
Agreed. They wanted money.
Especially since the book is aimed at young children.
i love how he puts merry up when he says women
That song is very manipulative!!!
Now I just feel like shipping Bilbo with Gollum. YOU DID THIS TO ME
The most important factor wasn’t even mentioned in this video: Evangeline Lily ONLY signed onto The Hobbit because WB assured her that her character would not be relegated to a love triangle. That was the ONLY thing she didn’t want, and that’s why she said yes… Guess what storyline Tauriel (pretty much the only real female character) got? That’s so sad, I feel bad for her.
The reason for Tauriel not being there enough is that the studio commanded Tauriel to be in a love triangle, long after production was set in motion. That means that they couldn't adjust the story to involve a love story, but instead had to force it in where they could without affecting the main plot.