This is one of the best descriptions of ESR and component testing I have ever seen! I've been testing some of the stuff going into my #002 as well. Haven't got in to the caps yet, but I have found a few resistors who's values were out of the measured tolerance range I feel comfortable with using. I've seen far too many builders who overlook this!! I won't be able to get started on building my until September, so I've got plenty of time to check and double check components before hand. With the BC electrolytics you ended up using on the cathodes of the preamp, where they the NOS stock one no longer in production you mentioned earlier, or the current TE series by Vishay you have in your Github BOM for Mouser?
Hey Matt! Thank you for your kind words! The BC Electrolytics I mentioned are no longer in production and is indeed the ones I used in my amp.. I guess they are "NOS" from 2002 but they still are not of drinking age :-) I do recommend new Spragues from Mouser that is in the BOM and what I test in this video. They will be great, I promise, and they are along the lines of what Dumble used. High temperature and 2000 working hours is a good fit for sure. Excited about your update :-)
Hi, I bought the same ESR meter to test caps while still on a expensive dc to dc charger. I don't feel like desoldering all of them just in order to test them. So there are several 100uF caps at different spots of the board, and one of them shows way higher ESR than the rest, but the value is still OK according to the device/ESR table. Does that indicate that the capacitor is failing, or different ESR is to be expected at different locations of the circuit board?
There could be a chance that, depending on the circuit, the high frequency ESR could be fooled. I would take into consideration how old the capacitor is. If it's over 15 years old and used often, it would be worth removing it and testing out of circuit. Hope that helps!
@@TheToneGeek so I finally desoldered all caps and the deviation of the worst of them was less than - 10%. ESR measurings when removed was pretty similar for all. I am not sure why but in circuit some of the ESR readings deviate a lot
The ESR reading of the meter can miss read when capacitors are in parallel without any resistors or other components in between them. This is especially the case when testing power supply caps as they are often in parallel configuration. If you see a bad reading remove the cap or just one side to break the parallel connection. Hope this helps.
I have a question. You said that the higher the voltage the lower the ESR goes on the chart. But I noticed the my chart says up, down and up again witch it made no sense and it got me tripping
I should have been more specific. The best thing is to check the data sheets for what the ESR should be. Some of the capacitor manufacturers now have new techniques to lower ESR beyond traditional numbers
For example I'm looking at the 10UF chart and it says 35v 3.2 homs 63v 2.4 homs and 100v 3.0 homs ....see what I'm talking about. It goes up down and up again. That's wait it's hard to tell what's good or bad
What is your take on a VCR made in 2005 but it was never opened. Was kept in its original box since 2005. That vs a USED VCR from around the same time frame or even 2000'ish that was used but still works. If you had a choice which would you go after based on "component" life cycle ...
Not so much based on component lifespan, I'd pick the used one. 2005-ish was peak capacitor plague and VCR's were at the end of their lifespan, so cheap capacitors that were very prone to failure in combination with a product catagory that was developed to be as cheap to produce and sell as possible, combine those and you have a product with components likely to fail quickly. I wouldn't even expect the new in box to work, it's basically schrodingers VCR. Where as the used one is a known good.
Maybe you can help me ? I have that black one mesr 100 ! My problem is my mesr 100 shows anytime a value that I last measured ! Even if I do a zero ( shorten the measuring tips) there is no effect - is the same value on the display ! What can I do that this work again like yours ! Best regards,
Same here, i thought this tester would read capacitance value but its not..it only shows its so called esr value..i find it useless since i have multitester with capatance function
@@rojeomagno8332 ESR is a very important value. You can't measure it with most capacitance meters. Its measured using a high frequency AC signal not DC. Its measuring how well the capacitor will respond to voltage changes and the speed it will charge and discharge the higher the ESR the slower the cap responds. You want the caps to respond as fast as possible and equipment will stop functioning when the Capacitors ESR has increased too much. Capacitors that leak or dry out will normally have high ESR values.
Here is some food for thought. This is out of EXP not 100% scientific testing, because I don't have 10-20 years to spend on this test. However, from many years of EXP, this is what I have found. NOS CAP's that are within 75% of their ESR tolerances will last 3-4 years in gear that is being lightly used, & about 5-7 years in gear that is heavily used. CAP's that measure 50% of tolerance or below are 8-12 years and 10-15 + on heavy use. I have found the more gear is used the longer the electrolytic lasts. At 80-100% of ESR tolerances, you start to hear it in the static tones of the amp especially when no signal is running. Not sure 100% why that is. My guess would be, the more you keep the electron marathon going the better shape the CAP is in. Kind of like what reforming can do for a CAP. The less it is used the more it gets oxidized and reformed and can only tolerate the reforming process so many times. Stupid analogy time, It's like putting on 50lbs then losing 50lbs a few times a year your body would start to break down from the lack of uniformity and steady maintenance. stupid analogy but you get the point. That is JMHO, not fact.
Hey Troy! That's actually great feedback. I am absolutely with you on the usage of a capacitor vs the age at which it lasts. I don't have 20 years either to do the test however I should start keeping record. Thank you for submitting your thoughts!
Over achievers in capacitance can indicate leakage. You haven't mentioned EPR or Equivalent Parallel Resistance and how to measure it. Its very important and just measuring the Value of Capacitance and ESR does not detect leakage. Another reason why trying to reform caps is a bad idea.
I totally agree.. I don't think the plates will ever be "clean" again like they were when they were new. I could be wrong but I agree that peace of mind is well worth it instead of going through the reforming process.
Awesome vid.....answered alot of questions I had.......
Great video! Thank you.
This is one of the best descriptions of ESR and component testing I have ever seen!
I've been testing some of the stuff going into my #002 as well. Haven't got in to the caps yet, but I have found a few resistors who's values were out of the measured tolerance range I feel comfortable with using. I've seen far too many builders who overlook this!! I won't be able to get started on building my until September, so I've got plenty of time to check and double check components before hand.
With the BC electrolytics you ended up using on the cathodes of the preamp, where they the NOS stock one no longer in production you mentioned earlier, or the current TE series by Vishay you have in your Github BOM for Mouser?
Hey Matt! Thank you for your kind words! The BC Electrolytics I mentioned are no longer in production and is indeed the ones I used in my amp.. I guess they are "NOS" from 2002 but they still are not of drinking age :-) I do recommend new Spragues from Mouser that is in the BOM and what I test in this video. They will be great, I promise, and they are along the lines of what Dumble used. High temperature and 2000 working hours is a good fit for sure. Excited about your update :-)
Hi, I bought the same ESR meter to test caps while still on a expensive dc to dc charger. I don't feel like desoldering all of them just in order to test them. So there are several 100uF caps at different spots of the board, and one of them shows way higher ESR than the rest, but the value is still OK according to the device/ESR table. Does that indicate that the capacitor is failing, or different ESR is to be expected at different locations of the circuit board?
There could be a chance that, depending on the circuit, the high frequency ESR could be fooled. I would take into consideration how old the capacitor is. If it's over 15 years old and used often, it would be worth removing it and testing out of circuit. Hope that helps!
@@TheToneGeek so I finally desoldered all caps and the deviation of the worst of them was less than - 10%. ESR measurings when removed was pretty similar for all. I am not sure why but in circuit some of the ESR readings deviate a lot
The ESR reading of the meter can miss read when capacitors are in parallel without any resistors or other components in between them. This is especially the case when testing power supply caps as they are often in parallel configuration. If you see a bad reading remove the cap or just one side to break the parallel connection. Hope this helps.
I have a question. You said that the higher the voltage the lower the ESR goes on the chart. But I noticed the my chart says up, down and up again witch it made no sense and it got me tripping
I should have been more specific. The best thing is to check the data sheets for what the ESR should be. Some of the capacitor manufacturers now have new techniques to lower ESR beyond traditional numbers
For example I'm looking at the 10UF chart and it says 35v 3.2 homs 63v 2.4 homs and 100v 3.0 homs ....see what I'm talking about. It goes up down and up again. That's wait it's hard to tell what's good or bad
What is your take on a VCR made in 2005 but it was never opened. Was kept in its original box since 2005. That vs a USED VCR from around the same time frame or even 2000'ish that was used but still works.
If you had a choice which would you go after based on "component" life cycle ...
Not so much based on component lifespan, I'd pick the used one. 2005-ish was peak capacitor plague and VCR's were at the end of their lifespan, so cheap capacitors that were very prone to failure in combination with a product catagory that was developed to be as cheap to produce and sell as possible, combine those and you have a product with components likely to fail quickly.
I wouldn't even expect the new in box to work, it's basically schrodingers VCR. Where as the used one is a known good.
F and T ,s are very popular with amp builders.
Maybe you can help me ? I have that black one mesr 100 ! My problem is my mesr 100 shows anytime a value that I last measured ! Even if I do a zero ( shorten the measuring tips) there is no effect - is the same value on the display ! What can I do that this work again like yours !
Best regards,
Same here, i thought this tester would read capacitance value but its not..it only shows its so called esr value..i find it useless since i have multitester with capatance function
@@rojeomagno8332 ESR is a very important value. You can't measure it with most capacitance meters. Its measured using a high frequency AC signal not DC.
Its measuring how well the capacitor will respond to voltage changes and the speed it will charge and discharge the higher the ESR the slower the cap responds.
You want the caps to respond as fast as possible and equipment will stop functioning when the Capacitors ESR has increased too much.
Capacitors that leak or dry out will normally have high ESR values.
Here is some food for thought. This is out of EXP not 100% scientific testing, because I don't have 10-20 years to spend on this test. However, from many years of EXP, this is what I have found. NOS CAP's that are within 75% of their ESR tolerances will last 3-4 years in gear that is being lightly used, & about 5-7 years in gear that is heavily used. CAP's that measure 50% of tolerance or below are 8-12 years and 10-15 + on heavy use. I have found the more gear is used the longer the electrolytic lasts. At 80-100% of ESR tolerances, you start to hear it in the static tones of the amp especially when no signal is running.
Not sure 100% why that is. My guess would be, the more you keep the electron marathon going the better shape the CAP is in. Kind of like what reforming can do for a CAP. The less it is used the more it gets oxidized and reformed and can only tolerate the reforming process so many times.
Stupid analogy time, It's like putting on 50lbs then losing 50lbs a few times a year your body would start to break down from the lack of uniformity and steady maintenance. stupid analogy but you get the point. That is JMHO, not fact.
Hey Troy! That's actually great feedback. I am absolutely with you on the usage of a capacitor vs the age at which it lasts. I don't have 20 years either to do the test however I should start keeping record. Thank you for submitting your thoughts!
Over achievers in capacitance can indicate leakage. You haven't mentioned EPR or Equivalent Parallel Resistance and how to measure it.
Its very important and just measuring the Value of Capacitance and ESR does not detect leakage. Another reason why trying to reform caps is a bad idea.
I’ve always thought reforming caps seemed like a waste of time. Maybe it’s just OCD but I’d rather replace them and feel a little more at ease.
I totally agree.. I don't think the plates will ever be "clean" again like they were when they were new. I could be wrong but I agree that peace of mind is well worth it instead of going through the reforming process.