I made a Quake map in Quest like it was 1996! (using DOSBOX)
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- I made a Quake map in Quest using DOSBOX like it was 1996!
Map download with source .map file included:
bit.ly/3mwP1OF
www.quaketastic...
Quest homepage
quest-ed.source...
Custom Gamer TrenchBroom video from 2013
• Trenchbroom - A new le...
www.dosbox.com/
A man that doesn't ask if he should, only if he could, is a man to be reckoned with.
It's fascinating to see old software be dug up and examined under a modern context, but also around the context of what was around at the time. I'd happily watch a series about these old mapping and modding tools, all it does is give you a better appreciation for how good we have it today.
it's really interesting to see what types of tools these communities have developed today. Trench broom is an incredible piece of software as is the community-maintained UEd2 from the first Unreal Engine.
Back when I stated mapping, I found Quest to be the most intuitive editor of the ones I had available. It sure was janky, but I prefered it's single-view option (F1) over the forced 4-view one in WC and the like, and ultimately stuck with it for better or worse.
The first versions lacked many key features, though. I distinctly remember you could align textures just fine; however, initially it wasn't possible to rotate textures in the editor and you had to do it by manually editing the map file. I once spent a whole day doing some simple angled beams in an elevator shaft!
When Alexander Malmberg took over, it really shaped up to be quite a viable tool, mostly only hampered by its lack of hardware/3D acceleration support. Many very good features, partially hidden behind shortcuts or deep inside the documentation; possibly some of which that were ahead of the competition imho. Even after years of use, I would still discover something new occasionally.
The rebuilding of the BSP tree to update the textured preview was awkward but one got used to it and it was fast enough (depending on the map size anyway). But there also was a dynamic textured preview, "polygon mode" I think it was called, where you could align the textures directly on the faces, exactly like it's done today in camera mode. It was excredibly slow and laggy though. There even was a "lighted preview" that was quite useful to get a first impression on brightness and shadows, albeit only using default lighting techniques, it couldn't show advanced stuff alike delay/wait modification etc.
The far clip mode in both 2D and 3D wireframe/texture view was quite nice, and indeed helped keeping track of what was going on even in complex maps. Much unlike other, even modern, editors where sooner or later the 2D views become useless unless you hide/region off areas.
I made quite a large number of maps using Quest, only switched for good in mid 2010! Including this: negke.fov120.com/images/768_negke_2d.png ;)
Also, the new compilers that came alongside version 2.x support detail/hint/skip brushes as early as 1999. Things we now take for granted, they were initially largely ignored for almost 20 years.
Thanks for sharing your experiences here. I do wish there was an up to date version of Quest. It is fun to use in many ways.
i remember similar problems using doomed and build (duke3d) back then. a line mistakenly welded to another could spell doom for your entire map. deleting the wrong vertex could crash the entire thing. modern editors are a million times more intuitive in how you can do stuff
Build especially is prone to map corruption even with modern editors
I've just jumped over to Quake mapping today! I've been mapping for Doom Engine games for years now.
Just remember you don't need to make levels flat any more. Think vertically. :) And welcome!
Here's one feature Quest has that TrenchBroom doesn't have: lit preview, using the lights on the map to illuminate the map's brushwork.
Interesting. I must not have come across that feature or have an older version. It was hard enough to get this working in DOS. (for me anyway)
So glad we have Trenchbroom and not makebrush now
OMG, and I said sometime ago that Trenchboom is not easy to use...
Nice video!
how could you say that
A gooey?
Oooh, a GEE YOU AIII!!!!
GUI
Wifi, WhyFy, tomato tomato.
No joke tho it's no wonder I never released stuff as a kid, modern interfaces are simply better. Even with Quark - but I guess that holdover is why I use orthogonal views in trenchbroom along with full 3D to this day.
But that's Quark; who could forget good ol' Deathmatch Maker, and Hexmaker:
[This program has performed an illegal operation and will shut down. If the problem persists, contact the software vendor]
Back in 99, I was making a Q2 map in QED and I did not realize you could switch view with the spacebar. So I edited the source code to make it create 4 child windows at startup. #randomfacts
Imagine doing that with a '99 CRT monitor. I'm actually breaking out into hives.
I believe I had a 14 inch monitor back then. Eventually I bought a 21" Sony that lasted for years but I took the little guy to LAN parties!!
super cool experience! I use to use DromEd for System Shock 2 and original Thief game
I am so intensely jealous! Over the past few years I've idly considered doing the same thing; I never took the idea very seriously, but seeing someone else actually follow through I may have to reconsider doing a video on my favorite retro editor.
I think I briefly toyed with Thred in my early days (late 97 into 98), and probably some other tools I can't recall, but QED is the one I finally settled on as being the most comfortable in its day. A trial copy of it came with the "Quake Level Design Handbook", written by the developer, and I fell in love with the program as soon as I used it. Friendly, standard Windows GUI, plenty of mouse driven action at a time when I wasn't a fan of keyboard shortcuts (I'm sure that'll drive me crazy now), also object grouping in an era when most level editors didn't offer that, and odd "negative brushes", basically carving but deferred until compile time. Interesting features, and the lack of Undo is a charming window into the bad old days of computer programs. I distinctly remember convincing myself that undo was a gimmick I didn't need, and that people who wanted it were just lazy. Psychology is fascinating.
My levels never made a whole lot of progress, and I've long since lost any map scraps I had from the time period, but I loved that editor back then, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone else in the community mention having used it. Could be a good exercise to get myself back into both mapping and video production...
Of course I'd love to see you do a QED video I remember trying it but I don't recall using it very much. I have that same book and that same trial version still. If you do not do a video I will get to one eventually but I'd love to see your take.
I don't remember the name of the editor I used back in the day, but it still sticks with me that it had a subtract feature. You could, for example, embed a cone into a cube and hit subtract and it would remove the intersecting volume, putting a concave pit in the cube. I didn't realize until years later when I made my own simple 3d editor how advanced that was compared to the other features.
A lot of editors have that feature and it was the number one thing that would cause a crash in my experience. TrenchBroom has a very solid implementation that ensures your brushes are "legal" and won't cause issues. So great to use a modern tool.
Man, you guys had a lot of patience back then. Impressive to see what people were able to get done in those days. Imagine if the id crew was working with Trenchbroom all those years ago?
I started off back in the day with Virtus Deathmatch Maker, then quickly moved on to BSP thanks to Deadmeat's brilliant tutorials. Now I've stumbled on Dumptruck's amazing Trenchbroom tutorials and that's got me back into making Quake maps. Thanks again DT, great to see you giving Quest a run!
Thank you for this. I tried to use quest back in the day, but I remember not being able to do literally anything (I was in elementary school), I then used Qoole a bit, but only Trenchbroom really made the mapping fun.
I'm still trying to finish playing the 1st level of Quake III, since 1996. wish me luck.
thank you for making this, it's a challenge and very interesting.
i don't know if it's worth making maps that way, but it's certainly something that have to be done once in a life!
the 90 degrees rotation limitation on camera is typical from games & softwares from that era^^
genius!
Ben Morris' WorldCraft was my editor of choice in the mid-1990s. I was a much better QuakeC programmer than map maker, but it was the one editor I found the most intuitive.
WorldCraft was so advanced for its time. There's an updated version called JACK that many mappers use today that is based on Hammer (the followup) to WC.
Great nostalgic video! I've tried every editor going over the years - what got me hooked initially was the Tread (Thread?) editor that came with the Aftershock level expansion CD. I think BSP was probably the editor I got most familiar with and was the one that I could actually *get something done* in. Trenchbroom feels like piloting a spaceship compared to some of these old school editors 😆
Thanks. I am so grateful there are more level editor nerds out there who know how amazing TB is compared to the older tools. I should have a new video similar to this one in the next month or so. I've been researching a few as time permits.
@@dumptruckds thank you and huge props for the continuing support of the community! I’ve set myself a goal for this year to finish a map and the tutorials are a great help
Awesome. Good luck and have fun.
Just started playing quake again from the rerelease on Xbox game pass
Looks really primitive today but it was impressive back then
I use wayback in 2011 GTKRadiant wasa very good mapping tool
Very informative video love it mate
Thanks. This is one of my favorite vids. I will do more like these in 2022.
just found your channel. pretty stoked, seems like a QOOLE perspective on quake ehhh?? ehhhH??????? :) ahh you make a qoole reference in this vid.
that's quite some dedication!
out of curiosity, why wouldn't Trenchbroom ever support prefabs?
Because you can open multiple instances of trench broom now in 2021 so you can copy and paste between maps and indeed even between standard and valve 220 modes so there's no reason. I just make a map filled with prefabs and copy and paste them where they belong. Quest needed to have a prefab system because you couldn't have multiple instances open I assume.
I bien waiting for this video xD!
i used only quark and it was nice (~1998)
awesome content. thanks
Glad you liked it!
I think you should use jack hammer one day
I've used it. Very powerful but not my favorite.
Having got back into editing in the last few months, I have had to run some very old software which probably has not been updated since before 1998!
Awesome!
Been getting back into old games lately! Would I be able to use this knowledge (from your videos in general) for Half-Life by chance as well? Thanks for all this passion!
Although there is some overlap from Quake to Half-Life I don't think this would be very helpful. The good news is there are countless resources available for Half-Life modding and mapping.
@@dumptruckds Noted-Love the content and can't wait to knock a Quake map out sometime soon :)
I wouldn't use quest for the obvious reasons, but I cut my teeth mapping in Worldcraft and I love the drafting-style 3 orthographic projections + 3D viewport setup. What's the best modern tool for this kind of thing? Am I best off trying to use Hammer or J.A.C.K.?
TrenchBroom IMO as you can have 2d and 3d views. Netradiant-Custom is also very powerful but not as intuitive to learn as TB. Oh and if you know Worldcraft you know JACK already.
Use J.A.C.K., it's plenty more newer than OG hammer (which means less bugs), and has support for a handful of games other than just Quake 1. I personally use Trenchbroom for Quake, and J.A.C.K. for Half-life 1.
excelente me suscribi
What do you think about QED ?
I tried it briefly back in the 90s. But never made a real map with it. I'll try and get it running this summer.
Now, What do you think of Unreal Editor? (The one that comes with Unreal, UT99).
I probably played with it a little but there were so many great UT99 maps I never felt the urge to map for it.
@@dumptruckds It would be cool to make a tutorial series about it, Your TrenchBroom tutorials are awesome.
For BSP it was mostly garbage compared to its quake counterparts - doubly so today with modern UE vs trenchbroom.
Agreed.
Still better than QuArK!
I like QuArK over the others. It was updated not long ago. I would like to see a rewrite though. I can see it as an Electron app.
Is it possible to make new models for quake in ms dos?
Actually making a model in the OS? Probably a way but would be really limited if so.
@@dumptruckds I want to make both models and maps for quake in ms dos, like i want to make a new game for ms dos
Well I can't really help you there. However, you could ask ILike80sRock or Rhoq over on the Quake Mapping Discord. They have some experience with content creation in DOS
@@dumptruckds you have VK?
vkQuake? Yes.