What's also strange, is that when you hit this way, you'll find you won't even worry about the net and the other side of the net...you'll be addressing just the ball & have a mental image/feel for the geometry of the court. Almost like developing a 6th sense. You'll also be able to work more spin and shape to the ball. Pretty cool feeling. ...and your footwork becomes more active in getting around the ball to find that positional "sweet-spot". Cheers!
yep it definitely feels that way. you just keep looking down this line and when you hit it right, you know the shot was incredible without having to look up. i often notice my call shape is no longer straight when swinging this way, but has some side spin on it causing it to curve through the air. which you’ll notice sometimes in the practice sessions of top pros
After playing for 40 years (high school, college, etc.) and never feeling like I could properly crush forehands, I found this swingpath two years ago. Wow. Total game-changer moment. You've done a great job explaining it. IMO, you know you're hitting it correctly if the ball has a slight sideways hook in its trajectory when you hit full power, like a flattened out banana shot.
exactly! you’re spot on with your assessment of how the ball should fly through the air. many think you need to hook the outside of the ball for the banana shot. but, it’s this swing path that causes this banana shot to occur
This. Video. Right. Here. This is what I’ve been missing. I cannot thank you enough!! I have been showing all my tennis buddies this video!! I talk about it so much they are probably tired of hearing it. Thank you!!
that’s awesome to hear Moe! i’m glad you found it helpful and hopefully your tennis buds will be honored to hear it when you share it with them after kicking their butts 😎
Well this worked great! I’m a former high school state champ who has to give up tennis decades ago. I discovered pickleball 3 years ago and am a 5.0 player. Since my dad has Alzheimer’s, tennis is about the only fun thing I can do with him so I started playing tennis again this past year. My biggest challenge has been height control. Your video made me think I’m making contact too far in front after my wrist pronates because so many forehands dive into the bottom of the net, especially when hitting on the run. I just tested your solution against a wall and it’s a miracle! Thank you!
Wowwwwww, I practiced this today with my partner just soft tossing ball after ball. On about 1 out of every 4 balls I got the "frozen" shoulder and hips phenomena. It feels like my arm is a rubber band stretched out to it's max then just effortlessly snapping around. It produces such a beautiful, topspin heavy, deep ball. The muscles surrounding my back right shoulder blade are sore (in a good way) like they've never been utilized before. When I get it right, these shots are pleasurable in a way I've never experienced on the court before. My mind is blown!! Please keep putting more videos on this topic out!!
it’s an amazing feeling! i remember feeling it first when playing golf 2 years ago and bringing it into my tennis game has given me that same pleasurable effect. been coaching an amazing couple of players recently and it’s given me a few ideas for videos that will be very helpful for everyone
OMG, I FINALLY got the hang of this swing today (like 10-20% of the shots). Seriously, like you said, it's an absolute game changer! I've watched so many videos trying to figure this out, but WOW, you're on another level! Thank you so much-I've been struggling exactly like you mentioned in your videos, but now that I've felt that effortless power in my shot, there's just no going back. This is amazing!!
After watching this video I remember my first impression of Alcaraz’s forehand. I thought “the guy seems to swing the racquet almost to far away from the body “. Now I think I understand what he is doing. Thanks for your video!
The good part is the tension between the body core and the dominant arm. The bad part is not knowing the "Law of 45 degrees". For groundstrokes at contact, you need to get the hips at 45 degrees to the incoming direction of the ball. This is a universal angle for lots of sports. Body mapping is automatic for 45 degrees (although this includes the simpler use of 90 degrees, for up/down, left/right and front back). Close your eyes, then try moving body parts in all sorts of variations of 45 degrees - It's easy.
Another thing, my coach showed me another AMAZING swing path. It is a flat swing, but right before your racket starts the follow through, you rotate your racket like you are twisting a door knob. The flat swing gives the ball insane power, and the twisting of the racket gives spin and height. All of the pros do it if you watch closely.
Yes, this is correct. I would like to see some discussion about the swing path after contact too. BTW, Vic Braden taught this exact swing path in his 1977 book Tennis for The Future so the concept has been around a long time. Vic called it an inside out approach to the contact. At and after contact, the swing path begin to pull up and across in the other direction but I think this is more natural than conscious thought.
The way my coach talks about this swing path is leading my swing with the tip of my racket and aiming for the sweet spot slightly above the centre of the racket towards the tip. It forces good spacing and footwork if you try hitting your groundstrokes like this. Same concept different cur
This approach to hitting the ball reminds me of Nelly Korda saying (paraphrasing) when she’s in a groove out on the golf course, she’s just executing her swing and the ball just happens to get in the way.
Hey I’m loving your videos but it would be helpful if you stuck longer with the clips of people actually hitting using these concepts - I found myself rewinding those brief clips to get a visual sense of what you were describing. Thanks!
I began playing with a wood racket in 1979. Without internet I tried to figure out how to play the forehand from books (from the 1950s!). I didn’t understand topspin, and I began to improve my forehand only in the early 2000s, watching RUclips. But I still don’t have a powerful forehand. I mean, I usually win against people with a better forehand because I outsmart them with a mix of solid game, drop shots, slice, and yes, with my solid and still not great forehand. The first time I began to play a lot of forehand winners was after trying a nextgen forehand! But I am 62 and my wrist told me I shouldn’t go this path. I will go the court and try your forehand, thanks!
thanks for the great reply, adds a lot of value to the community. enjoy the next hitting session, and even if it fails a bunch, that’s just part of the process. got to get through that failure wall before you can get to the other side 💪
Nice one Jibran. Online Tennis Instruction (OTI) also discusses this "inside out" swing path. I'm coaching high school so I'll send this video to the students.
it didn't make sense but i was out hitting and decided to try.. and it worked. worked very well. i rewatched and honestly, it still doesn't make 100% sense to me. intuitively, it feels like it should produce an inside out forehand with some side spin but nope. it was going where i wanted it to. i am going to go try with drop feeds and ball machine today to see what happens. i hope it wasn't a fluke yesterday. thank you for the information.
yep most people think it only worked for inside out but it doesn’t, it works for all shots. the more your practice it the better you get. shot disguise becomes amazing. you’ll hear this swing path described by most on the internet as the path for inside out shots solely, and that’s where i disagree
@@jibrandoesthings well.. 1 week later. it's confirmed. this is legit. this along with a less exaggerated take back and it's been a great week for the ground strokes.
Interesting observations. I’ve seen lots of coaches describe this as an inside out swing path. I like your description of the 30 degree angle. I tried it when I played last night and honestly it felt good. No concrete arm. I’ve seen some coaches say to hit at 45 degree angle, I tried that too but I don’t feel as good as hitting at 30 degree angle as you suggested . It feels different, I just feel like I’m waiting for the ball a little longer and the ball is on the strings longer. What do you think?
yep exactly. your observations are the same as mine. waiting a bit longer instead of accidentally reaching for the ball. feels like the balls stay on the strings a tad longer. allows your head to stay down looking at contact more easily too
@@jibrandoesthings So much stuff out there. If it works for you, who cares what others think or say. Its fun sharing and seeing if stuff works. Most of your points are well explained. I'll try send you a link to a very interesting RUclips video by an eccentric guy who has a different take on the elastic stretch cycle than you. He provides examples of how we can control the extent of the stretch. I'm interested for you to see it and hear what you think of it.
I am curious if you are left or right eye dominant and do you believe it matters as far as how you track the ball for spacing and hitting out in front.I am a lefty too and am left eye dominant. I get out in front easier on backhand. I was told I need to keep my head more forward as to be able to track my lefty forehand with my left eye dominance, what do you think?
When you're talking about a swing path at 30 degrees, are we focusing on the path that the arm goes or where the racquet head goes? Also, is it more correct to say that it's a 45 degree angle we're aiming for, however we conceptualize it? That seems to be how your arrow is pointing at 9:54
yes in this clip it was at a 45, but i’ve since adjusted all my practices to be the 30 because in all my matches since filming that clip, i was still way too far in front at contact. when i adjusted to the 30 degree angle for myself, it fixed all my issues of being way too far in front.
in terms of contact, the racket head’s contact with the ball should be at contact, the arm can be in front. the arm should swing out toward a 30 degree angle.
yes in this clip it is but since then (that was back in april 2024) i entered many tournaments and kept hitting way too far in front. when i adjusted it to a 30 degree angle it fixed everything
I think this needs to be revisited and discuss in better detail where the ball should be struck and at what point in the swing path. I know he touches on it a bit but it's more crucial than he seems to make it.
Great stuff. Kyrgios for example has extreme windshildwhiper lots of times - for me that doesn't work. I guess problem for most amateurs is lack of shoulder rotation. They try to produce speed and topspin with armpronation and wrist windshild only - and that's a recepie for weak shots that sometimes travel to the sky and other times wiff into the net.
The question ive always is whether my swing should feel more like pulling or pushing out to contact. What you describe in this video has always been my interpretation of the “swing inside out” swing path advice. However, i have found two different sensations when following this advice. One where i feel like im pushing the racket away from my body, and one where i feel like pulling the racket beside my body. Pushing feels like more control. Pulling has more power. Im not sure which way is the “right” way.
just change where the racket face is pointing at contact, swing path is still the same. arm might come a bit more forward instead but it’s a slight difference, but you should still swing out and away. best thing to do besides theorizing about it is to give it a try and see what happens my friend
Nice video. I’ve found great success teaching juniors and even absolute beginners with this. I combine this with breathing technique to get them to release / throw as they swing away from the body. There are a double or YTube videos out there on the natural swing, including with seniors practicing this barefoot on the beach ; ) Good stuff
Glad to hear you find a stroke you like. I think all top 30 or 50 ATP players swing that way. This so called swing path is a result of the unique shape of the tennis racket. If you pull with a no tension arm, the inertia of the racket will give you this conical helix path. Most players making use of this to find the power. Most of them are hip turn driven player. If they are right handed, their rotation axis will be on their right leg. In close stance, most of them naturally put their weight on the front leg and also as a pivot point. Only the great roger Federer is different. Federer and other good players’ action or body motion may look alike, but I can guaranteed you, They are totally different.
When we talk about loose arm, What does that mean? In most good players, it means relax your arm. For Federer, it means zero arm muscle contraction. The arm is totally passive and will only move by the torso rotation. Now comparing the arm motion. Most ATP players swing with this conical helix path, muscle contraction will make their arm internally rotate, and you will see the pronation of their forearm. If you draw a shoulder to shoulder line, their elbow will catch up and run ahead of this shoulder line much much before ball contact. It’s a naturally outcome of muscle contraction. Now take a look on roger federer, his elbow stays behind this line up to moment right before ball contact. And his passive forearm pronation is finished in a blink. This difference makes Federer stroke has a higher acceleration compare to other player but less energy input. I think many Good players know the difference but they just can’t copy that. Do you know why?
@@freddieng2010very interesting observations, thank you! What causes the fact that only Federer shows that pattern, you think? Does he also turn his shoulders more or is it caused by pivoting on the left foot? Please elaborate on these, if you have time :) Be well
@@einarjuel if you really want to understand what really happened in the strokes of the great Roger Federer, the first thing you have to do is clear your mind and remove all your deep rooted perception about tennis strokes. The second thing is “ don’t trust your eyes”. I mean if you don’t have a “ take it for granted” in your mind, then you will see things you never see before. For example, energy generated from the ground. If we are sky diving, can I slap your face. Of course I can without pushing from ground. If I tell you Novak Djorkvic stop his body rotation and slow down his upper arm right before ball contact, can you see that? No, I don’t think most people can see that. Because most ppl love the feel of whip through the ball effortlessly. So they think Novak is doing the same thing. In every single stroke of The great Roger Federer, the first thing in his mind is align his centre of gravity.always. In a nutshell, He generates his energy from upper body rotation initiate from his left arm. His footwork totally for the aim of align is centre of gravity. His whole body gets into a state of standstill in explosion. He has a genius and unique way to slow down his right arm before contact. His racket acceleration is explosive which human muscle contraction cannot archieve in such a short period of time. His stroke start when the ball just right across the net. Finally, if anyone try to learn the stroke of Roger Federer, he is actually start learning using chopstick by his toes. Kids, when they never told to fire their hips or “put your weight into the ball”, they have a bigger chance to succeed. However, some elements in the stroke of Federer can still be acquired by mature adult, but you must be seriously committed and I can garanteed you the process is a very painful mental challenge.
@@einarjuelhe can pivot on his right or left foot depends on situation, but his rotation axis is always along his spine! In nutshell, what makes Federer strokes different from others is His energy transmission and efficiency is the greatest among all others. For most recreational players, more than 50% of their energy generated is a waste. Lost in transmission, lost in fighting against gravity, lost in firing their hips, lost in follow through, nothing much left for their racket.
Then you probably didn’t checked all the channels 😎 it’s a circular motion already since the 70s and contact is made between a 30 and 60 degree angle which every decent coach should know 🤔
I still need to test few of ur concepts but i found some of things you are saying by my self as well, this throwing racket to the side works verry well way better tan trying throw it to the front where you aiming at causing overrotation
Seems to me the physics here is by swinging away from your body towards the net post while rotating contra to the motion the rotation is what lines your racquet head up to hit the ball into the court. That right? It seems to my brain you are swinging away from the rotation of your body rather than to the net post, at least the logic of that works for me otherwise I aim for the net post. Sure others can conceptualize differently.
Nadal, Djorkvic Murray and the great Federer are all torso turn driven players, there are two kinetic chains operating at the same time when in their motions. Their rotation axis are built in their spine. And Only Federer forehand is playing with body elements and racket inertia. Alcaraz is hip turn driven player. His motion has only one kinetic chain. His rotation axis is his dominant foot. Not a question of good or bad. But they are all different.
First of all, you will never see Federer holding the racket by one single arm, or it is support by the non dominant arm or in a falling motion. Because his right arm is 100% no muscle contraction. Under that circumstance, if anyone try to copy that, you can imagine if you see a flying ball come to you, the first 1000 stroke I can guaranteed you will contract you muscle and try to hit the ball. Then you will go back try to shadow swing and make sure you can suppress that active muscle contraction. This time when a ball is flying to you, you find out the timing is totally different. You just cannot hit the ball! Miss it every time. Then you gave up!!!! I saw so many these kind of cases.
yeah i tell my players to feel like the non hitting hand is propping up the racket. if the non playing hand weren’t there, the racket would just flop down.
Know what? Been playing tennis for 20+ years and on low running forehands I've always done this and felt better control, but never thought to try it on regular groundstrokes.
Finally, i got it. I asked to you some concept of this swing before, and i just do it on court. And i can saw my best forehand shot. Actually, i need some more shot practice about balls of various heights, but i'm so happy to find this channel. Thank you very much.
Yep, you pronounced right the first time. The "z" in Alcaraz in Spanish sounds like "th" in math, wrath or path in English. So, it should be pronounced "Alcarath".
This whole video is coming from a misunderstanding of what everyone else is talking about when discussing swing paths. They are discussing the direction the racquet should be moving AT contact. Like imagine a window of time that is like 10 milliseconds before contact to 10 milliseconds after contact. That is the timeframe in which people (in 99% of cases) are discussing the racquet, and which direction it should be moving. In this video, you are talking about the direction the racquet should be moving from after the drop until 10 milliseconds before contact. If you notice, all the examples you showed displayed people using good, correct swing paths. Their racquet was NOT moving away from their body at the moment of contact, it was moving up and across (so towards, as obviously the racquet starts on the outside of the body) the body at the moment of contact, which will always be the case for every good shot, except in some really extreme cases like a really high ball that is basically right next to the net, where you can genuinely swing down at the ball. Edit: To add on to what I've already said, coaches should explain the actual FULL swing path, instead of what is being done here, OR what this video is trying to correct in other teaching examples. The truth is that non-slice groundstrokes (so topspin and flat) always are a fundamentally circular motion. Like imagine holding a hula hoop straight in front of you with both arms (one on each side, left and right) and the hula hoop is parallel to the ground (you could set it down and it would lie flat on the ground). Now rotate the hula hoop by lifting your left hand up to shoulder level and dropping your right hand down. Now the hula hoop is showing a decent approximation of a good forehand swing path. Obviously it's not EXACT, as the swing path is circuLAR, not a perfect circle. But you will notice that this circular swing path model explains what is in this video (starting with your racquet in the dropped position, your racquet follows the back side of the hula hoop (the side farther from you). As it does this, it moves forward and away from your body, just as this video explains). AND it explains the more traditional explanations of swing path, because you'll notice that since the hula hoop is circular, at a certain point you reach the end of the hula loop going forward and away from you (this is where you make contact with the ball) and instead continues going up, but now is coming back towards your body, leading ultimately to the other side of your body. And when the racquet reaches that point on the opposite side of your body, the hula hoop is now pointing down, which is the end of the swing where you bring the racquet down over your shoulder, or in the case of a heavier topspin shot (like a windshield wiper style shot) where you finish bringing the racquet down in front of you. The point is that the FULL swing path is a circular (not a perfect circle of course, just circular) swing path. This video is correct, and (most) of the videos it's trying to correct are also correct, they're just all (this video and the videos it's trying to correct) explanations of PART of the swing path instead of the entire swing path. It's just like I said in the beginning, this video is describing the swing path from the end of the drop until about 10 milliseconds before contact. While most videos are explaining the swing path from just before contact (about 10 milliseconds before contact, so where this video ENDS its explanation of the swing path) until about 10 milliseconds after contact. But people should learn about the FULL swing path being circular, and so what direction the racquet should move is constantly changing throughout the swing. Final edit: if you're a lefty, for my hula hoop example just swap what each hand does. So lower the left hand, and raise the right hand up to about shoulder level.
"Forward and away from the body" is well put. You almost lost me in the beginning with the open mind stuff. Other than that, great video! Informative, concise
I started trying hitting the ball with more topspin, and now my elbow is hurting me. I used to just bring the racquet straight back and hit through the ball and I used to hit very flat and my elbow never hurt me. Thank you for posting this video I am going to try this and see how that works.
awesome! make sure when you try it out, don’t go too high on the stress level (ie don’t have too much variability in the balms that are coming to you). you want to give your body and brain the ability to trust the new way and start recording the new neuro pathways for this new movement. if the stress level is too high, you’ll continue to do the old swing
Don't compete at this stage . Try identify after the day aboye style or another style . The use of strikes is easier with less. So I might simplify it has to begin somewhere then the apparell then or first apparel all of the options simplify by reducing too many options. Then that's thexstragetty. The laughter dies not stop this binds I remember by not returning memory but by no time. So the energy expenditure is less after time wins rise but there have I eaten more or my devusion higher therefore to play yo help there or learn there. To not have too much is good
here's a tip for the future: people have had enough of minute long introduction. We don't care what you're gonna cover in your video. Just start the damn video already. There's a reason people want chapters and use extensions that skip all this boring "hello. youtube, like and subscribe, in the next 48 minutes, I'm gonna give you a quick preview over the rest 2 minutes of the video with the actual content"
not my fault that’s how psychology works man. it’s kinda the stuff one has to do to make sure the vid gets pushed by the algorithm. believe me i’d like to not include it to bc it literally takes me hours to plan out the script, especially the beginning part and there’s a lot of other things id like to do with my life like play tennis, be with my friends, spend time with my dad who just had five-bypass heart surgery, see my mom when she comes in town after being gone for months for travel nursing, etc. but no, i have to make an intro like this because it primes the brain to pay attention to what it is about to learn thereby absorbing the info better and also how human psychology works and therefore what the algo prefers.
@@jibrandoesthings I get all that, but the new meta isn't the old meta. The new meta is getting right to the point, including chapters, and then people will actually subscribe and come back to your videos. I watched the complete video and your message is basically compressable to 5 seconds, sorry. People just don't want to watch 20+ minutes each video for every single thing they're interested in. That's why shorts exist and that's why tiktok is so successful, sadly. I'm all in for watching hour long videos if the content actually calls for it, I think you could for example show many more different examples of people hitting too vertical, too flat, underturn the upper body and then show their progress, that would have been helpful to me. I honestly didn't understand what to imagine when hitting by your explanation. "swing in 30° angle" doesn't make sense to me, what am I swinging, the butt of the racket, the tip of it, the center, my wrist, my forearm, my elbow or my complete arm? Those are things you could have adressed instead of using 4 minutes for introduction on what'S gonna happen.
you’re right things can be explained in 3 seconds that’s why shorts exist. most things in life can be summed up in a couple sentences, even hour long videos
What's also strange, is that when you hit this way, you'll find you won't even worry about the net and the other side of the net...you'll be addressing just the ball & have a mental image/feel for the geometry of the court. Almost like developing a 6th sense. You'll also be able to work more spin and shape to the ball. Pretty cool feeling. ...and your footwork becomes more active in getting around the ball to find that positional "sweet-spot". Cheers!
yep it definitely feels that way. you just keep looking down this line and when you hit it right, you know the shot was incredible without having to look up. i often notice my call shape is no longer straight when swinging this way, but has some side spin on it causing it to curve through the air. which you’ll notice sometimes in the practice sessions of top pros
After playing for 40 years (high school, college, etc.) and never feeling like I could properly crush forehands, I found this swingpath two years ago. Wow. Total game-changer moment. You've done a great job explaining it. IMO, you know you're hitting it correctly if the ball has a slight sideways hook in its trajectory when you hit full power, like a flattened out banana shot.
exactly! you’re spot on with your assessment of how the ball should fly through the air. many think you need to hook the outside of the ball for the banana shot. but, it’s this swing path that causes this banana shot to occur
Banana bend inside-out or to the pull-side?
bends inside out. can you clarify what you mean by “pull-side”
Opposite of “inside-out” (“inside-in”, I guess, though that’s not commonly used). Like pulling a baseball. Hooking it.
yeah a banana shot will have a hook shot where it bends out and then hooks back in. like a draw in golf
This. Video. Right. Here.
This is what I’ve been missing. I cannot thank you enough!! I have been showing all my tennis buddies this video!! I talk about it so much they are probably tired of hearing it.
Thank you!!
that’s awesome to hear Moe! i’m glad you found it helpful and hopefully your tennis buds will be honored to hear it when you share it with them after kicking their butts 😎
Well this worked great! I’m a former high school state champ who has to give up tennis decades ago. I discovered pickleball 3 years ago and am a 5.0 player. Since my dad has Alzheimer’s, tennis is about the only fun thing I can do with him so I started playing tennis again this past year. My biggest challenge has been height control. Your video made me think I’m making contact too far in front after my wrist pronates because so many forehands dive into the bottom of the net, especially when hitting on the run. I just tested your solution against a wall and it’s a miracle! Thank you!
Wowwwwww, I practiced this today with my partner just soft tossing ball after ball. On about 1 out of every 4 balls I got the "frozen" shoulder and hips phenomena. It feels like my arm is a rubber band stretched out to it's max then just effortlessly snapping around. It produces such a beautiful, topspin heavy, deep ball. The muscles surrounding my back right shoulder blade are sore (in a good way) like they've never been utilized before. When I get it right, these shots are pleasurable in a way I've never experienced on the court before. My mind is blown!! Please keep putting more videos on this topic out!!
it’s an amazing feeling! i remember feeling it first when playing golf 2 years ago and bringing it into my tennis game has given me that same pleasurable effect. been coaching an amazing couple of players recently and it’s given me a few ideas for videos that will be very helpful for everyone
OMG, I FINALLY got the hang of this swing today (like 10-20% of the shots). Seriously, like you said, it's an absolute game changer! I've watched so many videos trying to figure this out, but WOW, you're on another level! Thank you so much-I've been struggling exactly like you mentioned in your videos, but now that I've felt that effortless power in my shot, there's just no going back. This is amazing!!
that’s fantastic to hear! keep it up!!
After watching this video I remember my first impression of Alcaraz’s forehand. I thought “the guy seems to swing the racquet almost to far away from the body “. Now I think I understand what he is doing. Thanks for your video!
The good part is the tension between the body core and the dominant arm.
The bad part is not knowing the "Law of 45 degrees". For groundstrokes at contact, you need to get the hips at 45 degrees to the incoming direction of the ball.
This is a universal angle for lots of sports.
Body mapping is automatic for 45 degrees (although this includes the simpler use of 90 degrees, for up/down, left/right and front back). Close your eyes, then try moving body parts in all sorts of variations of 45 degrees - It's easy.
Is it possible to explain this in more detail? Seems interesting
Another thing, my coach showed me another AMAZING swing path. It is a flat swing, but right before your racket starts the follow through, you rotate your racket like you are twisting a door knob. The flat swing gives the ball insane power, and the twisting of the racket gives spin and height. All of the pros do it if you watch closely.
Yes, this is correct. I would like to see some discussion about the swing path after contact too. BTW, Vic Braden taught this exact swing path in his 1977 book Tennis for The Future so the concept has been around a long time. Vic called it an inside out approach to the contact. At and after contact, the swing path begin to pull up and across in the other direction but I think this is more natural than conscious thought.
The way my coach talks about this swing path is leading my swing with the tip of my racket and aiming for the sweet spot slightly above the centre of the racket towards the tip.
It forces good spacing and footwork if you try hitting your groundstrokes like this. Same concept different cur
This approach to hitting the ball reminds me of Nelly Korda saying (paraphrasing) when she’s in a groove out on the golf course, she’s just executing her swing and the ball just happens to get in the way.
Hey I’m loving your videos but it would be helpful if you stuck longer with the clips of people actually hitting using these concepts - I found myself rewinding those brief clips to get a visual sense of what you were describing. Thanks!
I use the topspin pro to teach this to beginners. I don't often hear it talked about. I learned it from an all american.
Jibran. Awesome video!!! I’m
Can you do a backhand video?
I began playing with a wood racket in 1979. Without internet I tried to figure out how to play the forehand from books (from the 1950s!). I didn’t understand topspin, and I began to improve my forehand only in the early 2000s, watching RUclips. But I still don’t have a powerful forehand. I mean, I usually win against people with a better forehand because I outsmart them with a mix of solid game, drop shots, slice, and yes, with my solid and still not great forehand. The first time I began to play a lot of forehand winners was after trying a nextgen forehand! But I am 62 and my wrist told me I shouldn’t go this path. I will go the court and try your forehand, thanks!
i’ve got something come up for your wrist next week!
thanks for the great reply, adds a lot of value to the community. enjoy the next hitting session, and even if it fails a bunch, that’s just part of the process. got to get through that failure wall before you can get to the other side 💪
Nice one Jibran. Online Tennis Instruction (OTI) also discusses this "inside out" swing path. I'm coaching high school so I'll send this video to the students.
awesome! i hope it helps them!
Do you use this same principle to one handed backhand?
Dude...this was phenomenal. Thank you
awesome glad you liked it! now go get after it 💪
it didn't make sense but i was out hitting and decided to try.. and it worked. worked very well. i rewatched and honestly, it still doesn't make 100% sense to me. intuitively, it feels like it should produce an inside out forehand with some side spin but nope. it was going where i wanted it to. i am going to go try with drop feeds and ball machine today to see what happens. i hope it wasn't a fluke yesterday. thank you for the information.
yep most people think it only worked for inside out but it doesn’t, it works for all shots. the more your practice it the better you get. shot disguise becomes amazing.
you’ll hear this swing path described by most on the internet as the path for inside out shots solely, and that’s where i disagree
@@jibrandoesthings well.. 1 week later. it's confirmed. this is legit. this along with a less exaggerated take back and it's been a great week for the ground strokes.
heck yeah! keep it up!
I’m so confused should your hips and chest rotate at contact or no
Jibran. Awesome video!!!
Can you do a backhand video?
hmmm, interesting gonna try this out on my next tennis session.
Interesting observations. I’ve seen lots of coaches describe this as an inside out swing path. I like your description of the 30 degree angle. I tried it when I played last night and honestly it felt good. No concrete arm. I’ve seen some coaches say to hit at 45 degree angle, I tried that too but I don’t feel as good as hitting at 30 degree angle as you suggested . It feels different, I just feel like I’m waiting for the ball a little longer and the ball is on the strings longer. What do you think?
yep exactly. your observations are the same as mine. waiting a bit longer instead of accidentally reaching for the ball. feels like the balls stay on the strings a tad longer. allows your head to stay down looking at contact more easily too
@@jibrandoesthings So much stuff out there. If it works for you, who cares what others think or say. Its fun sharing and seeing if stuff works. Most of your points are well explained. I'll try send you a link to a very interesting RUclips video by an eccentric guy who has a different take on the elastic stretch cycle than you. He provides examples of how we can control the extent of the stretch. I'm interested for you to see it and hear what you think of it.
great send it over. if YT won’t let you comment it, email it to me jibrandoesthings@gmail.com
@@jibrandoesthings I just sent to you. I tried before but RUclips deleted my message.
great!
It’s a little harder to conceptualize this for cross court forehands. Down the middle and inside out it’s immediately clear to me.
You’re absolutely correct about this!
Expert manipulation in the beginning! Bravo 👏👏👏
I am curious if you are left or right eye dominant and do you believe it matters as far as how you track the ball for spacing and hitting out in front.I am a lefty too and am left eye dominant. I get out in front easier on backhand. I was told I need to keep my head more forward as to be able to track my lefty forehand with my left eye dominance, what do you think?
How do older players learn elastic hip rotation? You only work with juniors?
When you're talking about a swing path at 30 degrees, are we focusing on the path that the arm goes or where the racquet head goes?
Also, is it more correct to say that it's a 45 degree angle we're aiming for, however we conceptualize it? That seems to be how your arrow is pointing at 9:54
yes in this clip it was at a 45, but i’ve since adjusted all my practices to be the 30 because in all my matches since filming that clip, i was still way too far in front at contact. when i adjusted to the 30 degree angle for myself, it fixed all my issues of being way too far in front.
in terms of contact, the racket head’s contact with the ball should be at contact, the arm can be in front. the arm should swing out toward a 30 degree angle.
i would say the 45 is not a more correct degree angle we are aiming for
How does this line drill work in open stance. Is the swing path still the same angle?
yes
Thanks for the great video. Does this apply to double handed backhands as well?
yep! everything is the same on both sides, as well as for 1BH
mate, same for backhand?
yessir
@@jibrandoesthings cheers bruv... practiced this swing path with my forehand today and it IMMEDIATELY clicked so thank you
hell yeah awesome man great job
9:45 @Jibran Does Things, looks more like a 45 degree angle ?
yes in this clip it is but since then (that was back in april 2024) i entered many tournaments and kept hitting way too far in front. when i adjusted it to a 30 degree angle it fixed everything
I think this needs to be revisited and discuss in better detail where the ball should be struck and at what point in the swing path. I know he touches on it a bit but it's more crucial than he seems to make it.
Great video, super good explanation. I’m curious, what grip do you use now?
i am on the “eastern” side of semi-western
Great stuff.
Kyrgios for example has extreme windshildwhiper lots of times - for me that doesn't work.
I guess problem for most amateurs is lack of shoulder rotation. They try to produce speed and topspin with armpronation and wrist windshild only - and that's a recepie for weak shots that sometimes travel to the sky and other times wiff into the net.
The question ive always is whether my swing should feel more like pulling or pushing out to contact. What you describe in this video has always been my interpretation of the “swing inside out” swing path advice. However, i have found two different sensations when following this advice. One where i feel like im pushing the racket away from my body, and one where i feel like pulling the racket beside my body. Pushing feels like more control. Pulling has more power. Im not sure which way is the “right” way.
check out the next video, and you’ll have your answer :)
I'll try it... but it seems like this is how to hit inside out FHs (which are my favorite)... how to hit crosscourt FHs w/ this swingpath?
just change where the racket face is pointing at contact, swing path is still the same. arm might come a bit more forward instead but it’s a slight difference, but you should still swing out and away. best thing to do besides theorizing about it is to give it a try and see what happens my friend
W vid but how does this work on the backhand?
could you show some examples next vid
works the same on the backhand side! i’ll make future vids dedicated to the backhand
Would agree but slightly different on the SHB but principle is the same.
Not seeing the “Click on this video” for the power secrets vid.
next vid comes out in 3-5 days. the whole “click the next vid” makes sense once all the vids are complete hahaha sorry about that 😬 😂
@@jibrandoesthings😢 😢 O-kay
my bad 😂
Nice video. I’ve found great success teaching juniors and even absolute beginners with this. I combine this with breathing technique to get them to release / throw as they swing away from the body. There are a double or YTube videos out there on the natural swing, including with seniors practicing this barefoot on the beach ; )
Good stuff
that’s great! yep breathing is definitely a great rest to get them in sync with this
Click the video right where?
it comes out tomorrow
Fault tolerant forehand emphasizes the out vector also
Glad to hear you find a stroke you like.
I think all top 30 or 50 ATP players swing that way.
This so called swing path is a result of the unique shape of the tennis racket.
If you pull with a no tension arm, the inertia of the racket will give you this conical helix path.
Most players making use of this to find the power.
Most of them are hip turn driven player.
If they are right handed, their rotation axis will be on their right leg.
In close stance, most of them naturally put their weight on the front leg and also as a pivot point.
Only the great roger Federer is different.
Federer and other good players’ action or body motion may look alike,
but I can guaranteed you,
They are totally different.
How they are then?
When we talk about loose arm,
What does that mean?
In most good players, it means relax your arm.
For Federer, it means zero arm muscle contraction. The arm is totally passive and will only move by the torso rotation.
Now comparing the arm motion.
Most ATP players swing with this conical helix path, muscle contraction will make their arm internally rotate, and you will see the pronation of their forearm.
If you draw a shoulder to shoulder line, their elbow will catch up and run ahead of this shoulder line much much before ball contact.
It’s a naturally outcome of muscle contraction.
Now take a look on roger federer, his elbow stays behind this line up to moment right before ball contact. And his passive forearm pronation is finished in a blink.
This difference makes Federer stroke has a higher acceleration compare to other player but less energy input.
I think many Good players know the difference but they just can’t copy that.
Do you know why?
@@freddieng2010very interesting observations, thank you!
What causes the fact that only Federer shows that pattern, you think?
Does he also turn his shoulders more or is it caused by pivoting on the left foot?
Please elaborate on these, if you have time :)
Be well
@@einarjuel if you really want to understand what really happened in the strokes of the great Roger Federer, the first thing you have to do is clear your mind and remove all your deep rooted perception about tennis strokes.
The second thing is “ don’t trust your eyes”. I mean if you don’t have a “ take it for granted” in your mind, then you will see things you never see before.
For example, energy generated from the ground. If we are sky diving, can I slap your face. Of course I can without pushing from ground.
If I tell you Novak Djorkvic stop his body rotation and slow down his upper arm right before ball contact, can you see that? No, I don’t think most people can see that. Because most ppl love the feel of whip through the ball effortlessly. So they think Novak is doing the same thing.
In every single stroke of The great Roger Federer, the first thing in his mind is align his centre of gravity.always.
In a nutshell,
He generates his energy from upper body rotation initiate from his left arm.
His footwork totally for the aim of align is centre of gravity.
His whole body gets into a state of standstill in explosion.
He has a genius and unique way to slow down his right arm before contact.
His racket acceleration is explosive which human muscle contraction cannot archieve in such a short period of time.
His stroke start when the ball just right across the net.
Finally, if anyone try to learn the stroke of Roger Federer, he is actually start learning using chopstick by his toes.
Kids, when they never told to fire their hips or “put your weight into the ball”, they have a bigger chance to succeed.
However, some elements in the stroke of Federer can still be acquired by mature adult, but you must be seriously committed and I can garanteed you the process is a very painful mental challenge.
@@einarjuelhe can pivot on his right or left foot depends on situation, but his rotation axis is always along his spine!
In nutshell, what makes Federer strokes different from others is
His energy transmission and efficiency is the greatest among all others.
For most recreational players, more than 50% of their energy generated is a waste. Lost in transmission, lost in fighting against gravity, lost in firing their hips, lost in follow through, nothing much left for their racket.
Then you probably didn’t checked all the channels 😎 it’s a circular motion already since the 70s and contact is made between a 30 and 60 degree angle which every decent coach should know 🤔
I still need to test few of ur concepts but i found some of things you are saying by my self as well, this throwing racket to the side works verry well way better tan trying throw it to the front where you aiming at causing overrotation
Seems to me the physics here is by swinging away from your body towards the net post while rotating contra to the motion the rotation is what lines your racquet head up to hit the ball into the court. That right? It seems to my brain you are swinging away from the rotation of your body rather than to the net post, at least the logic of that works for me otherwise I aim for the net post. Sure others can conceptualize differently.
Nadal, Djorkvic Murray and the great Federer are all torso turn driven players, there are two kinetic chains operating at the same time when in their motions.
Their rotation axis are built in their spine.
And Only Federer forehand is playing with body elements and racket inertia.
Alcaraz is hip turn driven player. His motion has only one kinetic chain.
His rotation axis is his dominant foot.
Not a question of good or bad.
But they are all different.
yes i agree, all different. my next video describes that there are two different elastic based swings, as you’ll see
How long take you to address the ball with your relax arm?
Your progress is great!
i suppose it depends on how fast the ball is coming at me. can you give me an example and then i can try to answer
First of all, you will never see Federer holding the racket by one single arm, or it is support by the non dominant arm or in a falling motion.
Because his right arm is 100% no muscle contraction.
Under that circumstance, if anyone try to copy that, you can imagine if you see a flying ball come to you, the first 1000 stroke I can guaranteed you will contract you muscle and try to hit the ball.
Then you will go back try to shadow swing and make sure you can suppress that active muscle contraction.
This time when a ball is flying to you, you find out the timing is totally different.
You just cannot hit the ball!
Miss it every time.
Then you gave up!!!!
I saw so many these kind of cases.
yeah i tell my players to feel like the non hitting hand is propping up the racket. if the non playing hand weren’t there, the racket would just flop down.
Know what? Been playing tennis for 20+ years and on low running forehands I've always done this and felt better control, but never thought to try it on regular groundstrokes.
yep it’s pretty cool. the more strokes you apply it to, the simpler stuff gets
Finally, i got it.
I asked to you some concept of this swing before, and i just do it on court.
And i can saw my best forehand shot.
Actually, i need some more shot practice about balls of various heights, but i'm so happy to find this channel.
Thank you very much.
Yep, you pronounced right the first time. The "z" in Alcaraz in Spanish sounds like "th" in math, wrath or path in English. So, it should be pronounced "Alcarath".
that one year livin in spain got me right 😤
This whole video is coming from a misunderstanding of what everyone else is talking about when discussing swing paths. They are discussing the direction the racquet should be moving AT contact. Like imagine a window of time that is like 10 milliseconds before contact to 10 milliseconds after contact. That is the timeframe in which people (in 99% of cases) are discussing the racquet, and which direction it should be moving.
In this video, you are talking about the direction the racquet should be moving from after the drop until 10 milliseconds before contact. If you notice, all the examples you showed displayed people using good, correct swing paths. Their racquet was NOT moving away from their body at the moment of contact, it was moving up and across (so towards, as obviously the racquet starts on the outside of the body) the body at the moment of contact, which will always be the case for every good shot, except in some really extreme cases like a really high ball that is basically right next to the net, where you can genuinely swing down at the ball.
Edit: To add on to what I've already said, coaches should explain the actual FULL swing path, instead of what is being done here, OR what this video is trying to correct in other teaching examples. The truth is that non-slice groundstrokes (so topspin and flat) always are a fundamentally circular motion. Like imagine holding a hula hoop straight in front of you with both arms (one on each side, left and right) and the hula hoop is parallel to the ground (you could set it down and it would lie flat on the ground). Now rotate the hula hoop by lifting your left hand up to shoulder level and dropping your right hand down. Now the hula hoop is showing a decent approximation of a good forehand swing path. Obviously it's not EXACT, as the swing path is circuLAR, not a perfect circle. But you will notice that this circular swing path model explains what is in this video (starting with your racquet in the dropped position, your racquet follows the back side of the hula hoop (the side farther from you). As it does this, it moves forward and away from your body, just as this video explains). AND it explains the more traditional explanations of swing path, because you'll notice that since the hula hoop is circular, at a certain point you reach the end of the hula loop going forward and away from you (this is where you make contact with the ball) and instead continues going up, but now is coming back towards your body, leading ultimately to the other side of your body. And when the racquet reaches that point on the opposite side of your body, the hula hoop is now pointing down, which is the end of the swing where you bring the racquet down over your shoulder, or in the case of a heavier topspin shot (like a windshield wiper style shot) where you finish bringing the racquet down in front of you.
The point is that the FULL swing path is a circular (not a perfect circle of course, just circular) swing path. This video is correct, and (most) of the videos it's trying to correct are also correct, they're just all (this video and the videos it's trying to correct) explanations of PART of the swing path instead of the entire swing path. It's just like I said in the beginning, this video is describing the swing path from the end of the drop until about 10 milliseconds before contact. While most videos are explaining the swing path from just before contact (about 10 milliseconds before contact, so where this video ENDS its explanation of the swing path) until about 10 milliseconds after contact. But people should learn about the FULL swing path being circular, and so what direction the racquet should move is constantly changing throughout the swing.
Final edit: if you're a lefty, for my hula hoop example just swap what each hand does. So lower the left hand, and raise the right hand up to about shoulder level.
Awesome!
"Forward and away from the body" is well put.
You almost lost me in the beginning with the open mind stuff. Other than that, great video! Informative, concise
I honestly thought throughout the video, since when Federer is left handed, until I realised it was mirrored 😂🤦♂
😂 sorry i’m about to mess w a whole lotta people bc ain’t no one wayyyy i’m flippin’ myself around lolll i like to analyze these vids too haha
@@jibrandoesthings Haha I like it since I'm left handed myself 😅
lefty gang 😤 🤝
I started trying hitting the ball with more topspin, and now my elbow is hurting me. I used to just bring the racquet straight back and hit through the ball and I used to hit very flat and my elbow never hurt me. Thank you for posting this video I am going to try this and see how that works.
awesome! make sure when you try it out, don’t go too high on the stress level (ie don’t have too much variability in the balms that are coming to you). you want to give your body and brain the ability to trust the new way and start recording the new neuro pathways for this new movement. if the stress level is too high, you’ll continue to do the old swing
Don't compete at this stage . Try identify after the day aboye style or another style . The use of strikes is easier with less. So I might simplify it has to begin somewhere then the apparell then or first apparel all of the options simplify by reducing too many options. Then that's thexstragetty. The laughter dies not stop this binds I remember by not returning memory but by no time. So the energy expenditure is less after time wins rise but there have I eaten more or my devusion higher therefore to play yo help there or learn there. To not have too much is good
Hy jibran
hey!
here's a tip for the future:
people have had enough of minute long introduction. We don't care what you're gonna cover in your video. Just start the damn video already. There's a reason people want chapters and use extensions that skip all this boring "hello. youtube, like and subscribe, in the next 48 minutes, I'm gonna give you a quick preview over the rest 2 minutes of the video with the actual content"
not my fault that’s how psychology works man. it’s kinda the stuff one has to do to make sure the vid gets pushed by the algorithm. believe me i’d like to not include it to bc it literally takes me hours to plan out the script, especially the beginning part and there’s a lot of other things id like to do with my life like play tennis, be with my friends, spend time with my dad who just had five-bypass heart surgery, see my mom when she comes in town after being gone for months for travel nursing, etc. but no, i have to make an intro like this because it primes the brain to pay attention to what it is about to learn thereby absorbing the info better and also how human psychology works and therefore what the algo prefers.
@@jibrandoesthings I get all that, but the new meta isn't the old meta. The new meta is getting right to the point, including chapters, and then people will actually subscribe and come back to your videos.
I watched the complete video and your message is basically compressable to 5 seconds, sorry. People just don't want to watch 20+ minutes each video for every single thing they're interested in. That's why shorts exist and that's why tiktok is so successful, sadly. I'm all in for watching hour long videos if the content actually calls for it, I think you could for example show many more different examples of people hitting too vertical, too flat, underturn the upper body and then show their progress, that would have been helpful to me. I honestly didn't understand what to imagine when hitting by your explanation. "swing in 30° angle" doesn't make sense to me, what am I swinging, the butt of the racket, the tip of it, the center, my wrist, my forearm, my elbow or my complete arm? Those are things you could have adressed instead of using 4 minutes for introduction on what'S gonna happen.
you’re right things can be explained in 3 seconds that’s why shorts exist. most things in life can be summed up in a couple sentences, even hour long videos
Jack broudy is cooler than you
agreed
Summary of the video:
Swing low too high and inside out.
wth lol i never said swing low to high and i 100% do not recommend that to ever taught. you clearly did not pay attention
Talk, talk, talk. Better more pictures and film.
Also way too verbose. Says in 20 sentences what can be said in 1
Jibran. Awesome video!!!
Can you do a backhand video?