nice detailed explanation! i had a k&n in my old car and liked it, now i want to use one in my new one but its a nice turbo and i read in forums that oiled air filters let through more dust. you can see pictures of dusty intake tunnels and there was a test that sayd that k&n let through the most dust. so if not the oil is an issue still there maybe a dust issue? and i live in germany do they also legally stand behind me and their product here?
I have to be honest and say that I am not sure about Turbo applications. My car is a Turbocharged 4 liter in line six and I have a K&N fitted. But as there is less pulsing on the suction side of a turbo it could possibly impact the active dynamic nature of the filter design. My advice would be to stick to the factory installation until you have done enough research to form your own opinion. Thanks for watching and thanks for raising the point, Andy
thank you for your answer! but this is where the research ends there is basically not much more information about those filters on the net than in your video and this comment concerning these issues. isnt this turbo issue also important to you considering the content of your video that seems to be to give a profound informatin on this great product? and since most of all new cars are actually turbocharged this is quite an important question. you seem to know more about these filters than anyone else here on youtube. cant you find out? i really want to use one because of the better turbo sound. and in my old non-turbo car the throttle response was much quicker dont know if that will be the case with a turbo.
Okay challenge accepted. I contacted K&N directly today, via their live chat feature on their website, they couldn't answer my question and referred me to their customer service team, whom I rang. Their response was that they have no data that suggests their filters perform any differently in Turbo applications compared to NA applications. Not fully satisfied with their response I have sent a message to David Vizard himself, however he is historically slow at responding. As soon as I hear anything I will let you know straight away. If you happen upon any information in the mean time please post it here, Andy.
Today I learned something new. Many say they are bad for your engine because they don't filter enough or the oil will damage the air flow sensor....but nobody has had a good explanation for their claims. By the way, thank you for NOT killing us with atrocious music and childish theatrics. Excellent video.
Finally someone that makes sense about K&N filters and not speaking from the hip. I have a car with 285,000 miles only use K&N filters. I’ve never had an issue only better fuel economy and performance out of my K&N filters on all three of my vehicles.
Brilliant video. years back, I asked my mechanic to re - jet and K&N an old Africa Twin to boost its acceleration. It made a difference- we only gained 6bhp at its best - I never thought to add a K & N to my ducati. Thanks for posting .
I'm a firm K&N supporter and have them in everything I own on the road. I've never seen anything that even suggests they are not working correctly. I do however have problems with them offroad. I've tried them on bikes and atvs offroad and every time I've seen dirt get past. Even taking every precaution making sure they were installed correctly. On my offroad toys I run unifilters.
Finally git a good explanation of how the cotton fibers are filtering while the engine is running: vibration! Now I don't feel so bad. I just watched a guy dump a bunch of flower on his K&N filter and compare it to others. It was "static airflow" whatever that means (no vibration, I assume.) Anyway when he dumped the flower, it went right through the filter. He sped up the video so you couldn't tell how hard he threw down the flower compared to the other filters.
Put a K+N oiled air filter on my 2005 Ford Taurus SE with a 3.0 Vulcan engine. At 28,000 miles. That same K+N is still in the air box today. The car has 175,000 miles on it now! That filter has almost 150,000 miles on it. Still going strong. Clean it every other oil change or 10,000 miles. This car gets 25.5 miles to the gallon. The sound of flooring that 6 cylinder. Is AWESOME. This car will do 114 MPH before the rev limitor kicks in. Motor craft blend 5W20. First 150,000 miles now Full synthetic 5W20. Going for 200,000 miles with that same K+ N filter! Shawn.
With everything I've read and heard on the internet, both good and bad, regarding weather K&N filters increase performance and or can actually do damage to your engine it was quite refreshing to get actual objective facts and statistics rather than subjective opinions.
Only just came across this excellently presented review. I’ve used K&N filters for many years but never understood the science behind them. That must have taken a lot of time to put together. Thanks for sharing.
I run K&N in all 3 of my cars and i love it and had no problems in Mustang, Starion/Conquest Tsi/04 Pathfinder LE, and i waited 2.5 yrs before i washed any one of them and never had a problem with none of them and i felt gains as soon as the 2nd day once the filter settles in you'll notice the difference, but i also mod my exhaust for best results.
I've been using K&N filters for 27 years. Chevrolets, Pontiacs, Mitsubishi's, Honda's, and Kia's. So anybody that ruins a Mass Air Flow Sensor is Using TOO MUCH OIL. Lightly coat the fabric DON'T SOAK it.
This is a very interesting idea behind it, and it does make sense...................Engines don't have a constant static air flow like all the tests deal with, it does indeed pulsate with every cylinder pulse. Our lungs also cause the same vibration as our bodies resonate at 60hz naturally. Our lungs have the same style of filtering, and if it's good enough for my body it's easily good enough for an engine. I have used K&N Filters on all of my vehicles, and only had an issue with ONE cold air intake, and cheap plastic threaded barbs, and hoses being to short. But I have NEVER had a problem with the filters themselves, or them causing issues and have ALWAYS lasted the life of the vehicle without question.
Your explanation helped me to understand the benefits of the filter. The one thing I believe in theory is that the filter will get the air in at its most compressed state. therefore should be able to have a more violent expansion rate, and it is the expansion of air that pushes the piston down. this was also emphasized with what you talked about with cold air as the colder the air the more density allowing more expansion
After I bought a k&n filter for my 2006 Dodge 3500 powered by a 5.9 Cummins turbo diesel I wiped the intake with a rag coated with WD-40 After two years of use every time I clean the filter the intake is wiped with a paper towel just to see if it's dirty the paper towel comes out clean everytime. And I live in desert area of Idaho the dirt roads have dust that is as fine as talcum powder. Most of the problems imho are caused by loose fitting hose clamps as well as stress cracks in plastic air passageways. One of my clamps came loose 6 months ago and I noticed a little bit of dust build-up around the clamp seams inside. Had nothing to do with the filter.
I recall reading the engine vibes had something important to do with the K&N performance. Your explanation is the best I've heard. Intake air pulsing. There is a popular test series of graphs been trotted around on many forums showing K&N is just about the poorest filter out there for not only clogging and also poor filtration of particulates. But, these are static tests, not on an actual motor with flow pulsing. Now if we can get K&N to pull their terrible "welded nut" oil filters from the market (which seem to burst open at the weld pints without warning), they will be doing a lot to restore consumer confidence.
I put a K&N in my Triumph at the 10,000km mark, same ones been in there and gets cleaned and oiled every second service interval, I have had no issues at all and the bike breathes incredibly well :)
Thanks for this well informed video. I feel more confident that the K&N air filter that I installed in my Vstrom a couple of years ago was money well spent.
Thanks Andy. I,ve literally just got in from the garage after fitting a new paper air filter to my recently acquired BMW 1200gs and until searching never realised that what was fitted was a KN filter. I think you have convinced me enough for me to swap it back in tomorrow. Still thankfully now its Spring in UK working on the bike is a pleasure.
Andy, you have a great way of speaking and making sense. I have used K&N filters on all my two and four wheeled time and distance shrinkers. Also, I am satisfied with K&N's product warranties. Thank you for the video.
Just pick up the drop in K&N air filter for a new Civic but have been hesitant to install it. Read a lot of stuff after purchase about MAF issues , fine particulates ruining engines and what not . In my mind it made sense if more air flow is allowed to flow thru the filter it must mean more particulates must get thru as well. Thank you for this explanation , actually makes a whole lot more sense . Gonna install that new K&N filter tonight !
My dad ran a K&N on his 7.3L PowerStroke diesel for about 10 years. He said he cleaned and re-oiled it about once a year. When he decided to sell his truck, I thought I would swap the K&N to keep for my own 7.3. I could not believe the amount of fine dust I saw on the "clean" side of the intake. I threw the K&N in the trash. For reference: he lives on a dirt road, a half mile from pavement.
I've always used them (and maintained them properly) and I've never had a car that drank a drop of oil between changes so I ignore all the internet trolls who say they let loads of fine grit through. They simply can't be doing.
G'day Guy, thanks for watching. I hear ya mate. They do tend to polarise people somewhat, either love them or hate them. Fact is they do work and the work bloody well. Thanks again, and thank you for taking the time to comment. Andy
I just watched that exact video you referenced with the K&N team; none had oil on the MAF sensor. I'm a little more worried about particulates getting in my engine. I have the K&N CAI installed on my 2013 Honda Accord V6 coupe, and I'm liking it. Great induction sound and it includes a dyno sheet for my exact car, showing gains. It's pretty chilly up here in the PNW during the winter, so once things warm up, we'll see if I suffer any performance loss. You have put some of my fears to rest however, on it's filtering capabilities. Great video!
I fitted that K&N filter on my 1992 Ducatin 900ss without the air box top fitted by using a custom made frame to hold the filter down and fitted the K&N approved re jetting kit and then removed some of the restrictive baffles in the pipes. Wow! those few mods transformed the bike into a wheelie pulling hooligan of a bike! Even experience Thundersport race mechanics and racers simply would not believe that otherwise the engine was standard. It was quicker than any of their 1100 cc conversion bikes to 100mph and on the track. Then again, to be fair the 92 SS did have different gearbox ratios to the later models which may have helped.
As a widowed female who loves my truck, 8.lL chevrolet silverado with the allison transmission!! I really thank you Andy for helping me to understand my k & n air filter!! I took mine out and found it was extremely dirty and I've cleaned er up nice! MY only question is: I don't have any k & n oil, is there something else I can use until I get some? This is my only vehicle and im 30 minutes from civilization, lol I think I'd like to replace my maf sensor- it threw the code a while back but I ignored it due to the previous owners statements but everything he told me about the truck has been far from the truth right down to sinking $3100 into a new transfercase as mine had had some very back yard repairs, he also added the wrong antifreeze and argued so had to flush and pray it hadnt damaged the heads or block.., lol I've had to learn things I didn't dream of ever needing!! So I very much appreciate your manner of facts!!!
G’day Janny, I wouldn’t recommend contaminating the filter with anything other than the recommended oil. If you have a paper filter I would use that in the interim. If not, try to get the recommended oil as soon as you can and try not to go thundering down dirt roads. Have a look at this video for the correct way to clean and oil a K&N type filter ruclips.net/video/kA-rY-05Nc4/видео.htmlsi=bkPDZUj_zBD-YFYd
I use K&N in my bike and like it. Thing is, you have to do your research and understand how they work, then you have to actually follow K&N's maintenance methods. I hear all sorts of riders say they use a strong jet of water to blast clean a K&N or compressed air on an oiled paper element filter, not understanding they are destroying filter. It takes a few minutes to educate yourself, then you're good to go. Thanks for sharing what you've learned ;-)
G'day Andy. Watched a few of your videos. Great to see a fellow Aussie on here ;) I've just bought a set of K&N air pods for my GPZ1000RX which has set idle for about 9 years and now I've got it running again and your videos on carb tuning and the like will definitely help me. Huge thanks for posting such great content!
Andy, I agree with you 100%. It seems that people expect the air box the filter sits in to be so clean you can eat from it. After being a mechanic for 30 years, I've yet to see an air box where the filter sits to be clean. These people don't use a regular filter and then check the air box for cleanliness. It's always easy to place blame on something you know nothing about.
I don't agree with people who say that K&N adds hp. What it does do is last much longer if maintained correctly. The only way to get more hp with a K&N filter is to modify the fuel map and other components of the engine. A new paper filter will flow as much air as a new K&N filter. The issue with paper filters is that the pores clog and if not replaced on a regular basis, your engine may be starved of air. Of course if you thrown in a K&N filter after you had a very dirty paper filter, you may actually notice the difference but that's simply because your old filter was clogged.
Disagree. Per say you have two masks... 1. OEM (thick filter) 2. Aftermarket (Better air flow filter) 1. If you run across the room with a thick mask filter, your lungs need to push harder which accounts to putting in more energy . 2. Now, a less restricted mask (better air flow) will be easier on the lungs and does not have to use more energy. Basically saying the engine is like a big air pump, the better the flow of going in and out, the more horsepower it will gain Yes, a tune is necessary to correct fuel and air ratio
Excellent vid..very informative and enjoyable. Ive used k&n filters since the early 80s on all sorts of vehicles with no probs at all. 2 different fiat twin cam motors with oval filters on dual dcoes and dhlas. Moto guzzi lm3 with panel filter insert. Subaru ej25 with panel filter insert. All worked great with good throttle response..it felt like air could accelerate through the carbs/efi more easily. Doing up a 750 commando with a single 40phf conversion and pod filter gave a huge boost. The most fun however was in modifying a p.o.s suzuki 250 single ..removing restrictive airbox and sponge filter..replacing with kn pod,rejet and enjoyimg thr most improbable increase in power ive ever felt!..cheers.
As a nurse specialised in intensive care, I find this explanation very interesting. It makes sense. I have been looking for a reusable airfilter for my honda crf 250 l. I ride that little bike like I stole it and the paper filter gets clogged raplidly. I ride dirt alot. A washable filter would be a nice upgrade. But the internet still does not advise it. The same comments keep on surfacing. Dust behind the filter et. I'm sticking with the stock paper air filter because it works and it's cheaper. But I still wonder...
That's cool, I'm not a salesman or a representative of K&N. You do what you think is right for your bike and your circumstances. Just make sure that you stay safe and keep loving bikes, thanks for tuning in, Andy
K&n filter has been in my v8 Toyota since 2000,it has 300,000 miles on it and I have yet had any problems with the truck. So ,it comes to tell me some don't know what the hell they are talking about .
Have a K&N Cold Induction on my 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix 3.6 liter with a stock Supercharger. 130K miles and it runs like a scared rabbit. Definitely helped flow and acceleration. Added a 3 in exhaust and saw huge improvement. Those 2 investments are the biggest bang for the buck.
I have used K&N filters on 4 Corvettes and 2 Harley Davidsons. My current Corvette is a 2014 Z51 with NPP 14 exhaust. This motor is rated at 465 H.P at the flywheel in stock form. The folks at K&N have stated their replacement filter (not the entire cold air system) should add about 12 H.P. The stock GM filter is a Delco piece made in Pakistan. Without access to a chassis dyno, I can tell you that the K&N filter has allowed my direct injected LT1 to breathe much better. The power is noticeably improved, and with the traction control turned off, the 1st to 2nd gear change on the 6 speed automatic produces a pair of 2 to 3 foot rubber marks on very dry pavement. The stock filter allowed a slight "chirp" of the rear tires. This very unscientific method of measurement is very real...and yes, it is one of those situations that one just has to experience. I would also like to tell you that mileage is better, but that is impossible, because I'm just having too much fun with this very responsive Corvette.
I agree. Ppl are put too much oil and they don’t let it sit after oiling before install. I’ve used K&N for over 15 years. No issues. I’ve used them from e30 bmw, 80s R107 MB SL, Honda’s, VW tuned GTi no issues.
I have one on my 1988 AMC EAGLE, daily driver, has never had an issue. I do notice the engine breaths a bit better when I clean it. However, just having an air cleaner that lasts a lifetime is worth the one time price. I clean it about every eight months as I don't live or drive in any dusty areas.
Good explanation, thanks. Putting a new intake on my bike this spring with a K&N filter and I was wondering why everyone says they flow better. Also, I live in Canada, getting a cold air intake is not a problem here, getting warm air intake, especially last summer, is an issue.
Been using k&n on my street equipment. Iv put one in my Honda Blackbird and it's little more responsive with it. I still use foam unifilters in my Honda xr650r and old Landrover as I recon they handle large amounts of bulldust better. Also each time I clean any one of these filters I have a good examin of the intake passage for any dirt that may pass but never find any. And I've never had any issues with the air flow sensor on any machines.
My Honda Gold wing’s manual says not to use oiled air filters.. they don’t say why but I suspect that the oriole could file sensors like oxygen sensor, airflow sensor, temperature sensor systems that are tied to the fuel injection computer. I like the standard air filter replacement that I put in my Honda Pacific coast in 1994. I cleaned it every year and we oiled it. When I sold my Pacific coast in 2020, that same air filter was still in service in my Pacific coast..Of course my Pacific coast did not have fuel injection or the sensors associated with fuel injection..
I had oil on my airflow meter once .... It was my fault but I did a shit Job of application of the oil and some got onto the meter the issue is I guess that you can't take that human element but I have run k&n for years and love them !
Yes it can happen, as I said. No issues if used correctly and as directed by K&N. It's best to only apply the oil to the non engine side of the filter and allow it to wick through. Thanks for watching, Andy
Andy's Motorcycle Obsessions ! yep you can't take that human element out working in engineering and mechanical for 20 years has taught me that ! but used properly there great
I love K&N filters, I use both the air and oil filters on my bikes both road and race, I even use them in my car and the van that I use to take my race bikes to meets. Never have an issue, not once.
I use their oil filters too, even though they are made in China. The quality control is obviously in check as they are of excellent quality. Thanks for watching, Andy
Yes it is, converting kinetic energy into pressure energy is no mean feat. CV carbs require consistant pressure for the air correction jets, emulsion tubes, diaphrams and venturi. Thanks for tuning in mate, Andy
Have a K&N panel on my 2003 Volvo v70, think I must have over oiled it at some point. K&N oil on the MAF and its working absolutely fine so either I've been lucky or the oil truly doesn't affect it. When I took the filter off one side was filthy and the other side was very clean. That's my personal experience of them. Also had a K&N on my last car for 3 years and never had a problem with the MAF. Here in the UK we also have Pipercross foam filters, would love to see a comparison between them and K&N with airflow and dirt filtration.
G'day Peter, many men, many methods I say. I would presume that the Pipercross units are similar to the Fram or Ram Air foam filters, which means that they rely on the pores to trap the particles. This means that they start losing efficiency from the minute you start the engine. I reckon they would flow pretty well, for a while anyway. Thanks for watching mate, and thank you for the comments, Andy
G'day Andy - VERY interesting! I learnt something today! My Ford V6 has a K&N and my Yamaha SR500 too. Very pleased with them. I didn't use one in my 916. :-) Love the SS and its "music"! All the best, Rob
G'day Rob, thanks for the comments and thanks for tuning in. They have a great sound don't they? All of my bikes have their signature note, and all sound fantastic, but the Ducati is my favorite noise by far. Andy
Had the same issue when I bought my RamAir induction kit.Had all the muppets saying it doesn’t work you get no gains.Even thou Dyno Reading have proved gains are there.
If you want to change your oil all the time then use k&n, I have a duramax diesel truck with a stock filter, My oil is clean not black. Like I always notice with a k&n or likewise filter. They let most the dust in, nothing like having grit and dirty oil in your motor all the time....
Good video. In line with my K&N air filter use over 20 yrs on cars and now on my Triumph Bonneville. However, I've recently lost faith in K&N the company as pertains to their response to years and years of reports of failures on their oil filters that have a "removal" nut spot welded to the outer casing. . According to K&N, the welded nut is only to be used during removal of the filter and never should be used to install the filter. So, unlike every other nut and bolt on a bike/car etc., users need to always keep in mind this is special thing...to be turned in one direction only. A quick google search for "K&N Oil Filter Failure" finds many, many reports on all sorts of bike and even cars. Undoubtedly, some of the failures are due to user not following this silly one direction only requirement. But, there are also many reports for users stating categorically that they only hand tightened their filters, never touched the welded nut and yet it still failed. Note that when these fail on a bike, oil is spewed out directly in front of the rear tire in many cases. There are wrecked bikes and even seized engines being reported (one on the Triumph forums got his engine replaced by K&N for this failure...good on them I guess). I am not aware of any injuries from such a failure, but can imagine this is a very real risk. Though these reports date back to well before 2012, K&N recently issued a recall on a limited batch of their 204 model oil filters for bikes...produced from Mar. 2017. The recall just gets you a replacement welded nut filter and you're left to hope it's not going to leak. Here is a web site dedicated to this issue I came across recently: oilfilterfailure.com/ Please do a video on this issue and get the word out to fellow riders! P.S. I've alerted Matt from The Workshop about this and he might do a video...but nothing yet....you could scoop him ;-) Thanks.
I have use K&N filters for 25 years and dealerships who serviced my vehicles have never questioned them. It is always some independent who sells replacement filters that tells you they don't work. The same guys that tell you that you must change your oil twice or three times more often than the manufacturer recommended intervals
David Vizard researches stuff well, though I think his testing of K&N filters was primarily done on flow benches and carbed engines. I have run their panel filters in the standard air box in both of my most recent cars. The current car is turbocharged so I doubt there is much inlet pulsing. One of DVs original articles looked at the particle sizes that caused most engine wear, the results were not what you might expect. DV also did extensive work into comparisons between race cars that ran no air filters and the comparison with the K&N equipped cars. The unfiltered ones soon lost significant power due to engine wear. Thank you for the interesting video.
+g0fvt you are correct on all points, although unless your intake valve is open constantly you will have pulsing and an intake frequency. Both my wife's and my car are turbocharged too, I have K&N in mine but hers is still factory. From memory the damage causing particle size is >20 microns. Thanks for tuning in, Andy
Enjoyed the video, regarding the pulsing, in my turbocharged application there is an intercooler probably behaving as a plenum. Living in England of course the operating conditions are somewhat different, the paper elements were probably changed in the winter, I certainly remember they felt as though they might be slightly damp. Never seen any flow tests on damp paper flters! Never had any sensor issues.... it seems the comments are very polarized one way or another
G’day Nightster. I have just returned from a hectic time away and I see many comments from you. I will be going through everyone’s comments over the next few days. Thanks for all of your input mate.
@@ANDY5 No worries matey I said before I know you have a life to live and its not the end of the world I don't get an answer. I been finding the XS progression really interesting and been following it as Im sure you can guess. Its ok for me Im off work just now so loads of time. Cheers matey.
I bought a k&n filter for my Harley Davidson, just the filter, it was kind of expensive, but if I buy 2 filters from Harley Davidson I've already paid more than I would have for the k&n filter
I put a K&N air filter on my bike and it ran like crap, too much air for the motor. I put my OEM filter back on and now it's running great again. Keep your money and keep the OEM air filter.
G’day mate. Your engine only draws as much air as time, barometric pressure and pre chamber restrictions allow. There is no such thing as too much air, your bike ran like crap because you didn’t have enough fuel. Rejetting would have been a better option, you just choked the engine again by putting the OEM filter back. Thanks for watching though, and for taking the time to comment. Andy
I used a K&N years ago on a dirt bike .. with no air box as I had put a GYT Kit on my 1974 Yamaha YZ-80A which used a 16 mm carb the GYT kit used a 24 mm carb I tripled my HP with porting ect.. Hit a water puddle and the engine would drown out .. with water.. again no protective air box.. Also I had a piece of sand big enough slip though after hitting water to stick my throttle wide open sand in the slide.. I have never used the cleaning fluid I need to get some .. For dirt bikes I have stuck with the foam filters that you oil can wash them in gasoline though I think Mineral spirits would be a lot safer.. I added a K&N in the nose of my snowmobile to pull in cold air .. Snow will turn to water clog and freeze the K&N Solid .. but a Compnay called Outer Wear makes socks to put over K&N filters that has such a fine mesh it lets air though but won't let water drops through .. The best combo if you use K&N off road is to use a sock.. Anytime you change any air filter on any thing with a motor .. run your finger on the inside of the air intake boot and look for dust and dirt.. I did this with a Farm Tractor that had an oil bath air filter and found out the intake hose had a crack in it .. It was sucking raw dusty air into the engine until I replaced that 2.5" air boot outerwears.com/products.asp?cat=12219
@@ANDY5 I just saw your welding video .. I have two Mig Welders one can do stick AC DC ect I have a torch and a Plasma arc cutter .. The only thing I don't have is Heli arc .."TIG" that's the cats meow for fine work . I do things like repair aluminum dump truck boxes I have a spool fun for my Mig welder so much faster for non precision work .. TIG does not warp things.. I do make my own hydraulic hoses too but have not messes with stainless.. Putting gas on the inside of a fitting will make it look nicer for sure.. I have C02 .. 75% agron 25% CO2 Hellium and straight Argon for Aluminum and Stainless ect .. it gets kind of involved. Your Video to adjust valves on the Ducati was very informative .. I'll stick to brands that parts are more available and less expensive .. I like the Triumph Tiger 800 XCA .. which will not be as easy to find parts for as Yamaha .. but the bike suits where I want to ride
I like Triumphs, I owned a '05 955i Daytona and my father flew to Tasmania and hired a Tiger 800 for a tour of the island with me. Super capable machine.
Excellent description, thanks for the clarification. I have been pro- K&N in concept but somewhat reluctant based on, as you say "muffin" reports. I also watched K&N's video (seems quite a few of those muffins in the comments there too) and felt very confident with the overall explanation. I recently ordered one for my Audi TT & another for my new BMW F800GS, they offered free delivery all the way from USA to South Africa & I received it in a week. Appreciate your rational approach, cheers!
I'm a youtuber with 900+ videos. A 2018 F150 with the 3.3 v6 make 290 hp. So if I put a K&N air filter in there. The engine will make more hp, per K&N. The problem I have with that is. The 2018 5.0 v8 make 395 hp and use the same stock air filter.
So they standardised the airbox across engine variants, that’s not uncommon. As I said the factory air intake system is usually designed to flow more than what you need ( engineered redundancy), it’s how some filters reduce in efficiency that has an effect on air flow over time. Thanks for watching mate, stick with whatever works for you 👍
bit late but....have been runnin' K&N pods on my 900 Super Sport since 1980 - would not be without them. Have always reversed flushed them with kerosene, air dried and re-oiled - never had an issue.
Nice job. You mentioned that some modify air-boxes to allow "more air flow" by creating a larger opening. That is not possible. With it running you would have lower pressure at those non-engineered new holes than the OEM part, thus less air entering, not more. That is why we calculate the proper tube diameter and length to match desired torque curves. (Head flow, port to head pipe...pipe to muffler) There is no one setting that works in every condition. On a dyno you would see a smaller/flatter torque curve.
I understand the intake track length design philosophy, but does that extend to the atmospheric side of the filter? The barometric pressure remains constant but if the airbox design does not accommodate adequate flow verses engine consumption at WOT surely that would have an impact on the flow rate into the filter?
@@ANDY5 Good question when you ask "if" the air box design has inadequate flow at WOT. When anything in that whole dynamic is changed, everything else is affected. Before modifying the air box, it would be best to know what it is actually designed to do/what it's capabilities are. My preference is tune for torque, gear for top end. To your question, yes, the pressures on both sides of the filter are affected. Super complicated..PM me somehow.
I may understand intake tract but my spell check doesn’t (track). I have no intention of modifying my airbox, I assume Ducati enginerds know more than me. I don’t think you can PM on RUclips anymore. If you wish to share like my Facebook page and send me a message there.
I run K@N on my bikes. carbs are jetted to suit and power commanders on efi bikes. One time while the cleaning the K@N on my carb bike that was jetted to suit K@N I put the stock OEM air filter on the bike. Took it for a squirt and it didnt run well and really choked 3000 rpm up. reinstalled the K@N and she screamed to redline. to me this said the OEM didnt flow as well and was choking the carbs with higher flow jetting. stock bikes might behave differently but i would still be looking to rejet or use a power adder if I went K@N.
This is my idea if you have a high performance car for drag race 1/4 mile or oval track etc yes use this filters. But for a regular car or truck the oem filter is good. I use wix filters and no problems.
If you are using aftermarket air filters for Your vehicle and still have warranty don't let the dealership know it can Void your warranty. For best results use OEM. People say K &N air filters save money maybe But if you ever have an issue with your engine or anything else. You would come out of pocket because the dealership won't cover.
I am in two minds whether I will use K&N filters in the future, my current car has one of their panel filters, as did my previous one. Not sure how much inlet pulsing will happen with this car, with a turbo and inter cooler the flow is probably pretty smooth. I do remember the original David Vizard assessment, he is someone that approaches these things with an open mind. Never yet had a MAF issue, but equally no before and after dyno plots.
Super informative, thank you. I'm looking at changing air filter from oem to performance for my punto with 1.4 tjet engine. Will help with decision making
Oiled gauze air filters typically have fewer, shallower pleats, which means much less surface area. This means they most have MUCH bigger pores to flow the same or more air- they don't filter nearly as well. Tests show the benefits, when new, are only a few hundredths of a psi...perhaps 0.3% less restriction, but that's only when new; the reduced surface area means it'll pack up with dirt much quicker and be more restrictive than stock. Check out this test. Max benefit they show is about 1.5" of water when clean compared to the most restrictive paper filter, which is 0.05 psi. Not saying it'll kill your engine right away, but there will be more wear for negligible benefit.
G'day mate, and thanks for watching. I'm not sure what test you are referring to, you didn't leave a link. Automotive air filters are tested to ISO 5011 standard. This test involves a static airflow of a given m3 flow rate. ISO controlled test dust (ISO 12103-A2 or ISO 12103-A4) is introduced and they measure amount in verses amount out as well is pressure differential. Controlled engine wear testing has determined that particulate sizes above 20 micron is what causes engine wear, smaller particulates become carbon deposits. All other tests I've seen on the interwebs are sales gimmicks designed to promote a particular filter type, including K&N, i.e. ball in tube flow tests or those 100 CFM filter box set -ups that "shock" you into how much dust is drawn through a particular competitors filter compared to the type they are trying to convince you to buy. I guess if you drive through dust storms all of the time that could be relevant. As I stated in the video most airboxes will handle whatever flow rate your engine demands, and then some. As automotive filters are nominal filters, as opposed to absolute filters, even the tightest worst flowing designs will still allow large particles >20 micron through, but as long as it proportionally satisfies ISO 0511 they will still comply. So here is the thing...K&N comply with ISO 0511 yet do not perform as well as other filter types in static airflow testing, as I mentioned. However in an engine application they do perform as well as paper and foam designs thanks to the kinetic energy pulsing created by the intake valve. The dirt adheres to the cotton strands and not the pores and they will flow incredibly well even when loaded. David Vizard conducted testing on a BAJA engine which was loaded with in excess of 1/6" of dirt, and the filter in that particular test was still flowing better than a new paper filter. The fact that they filter as well as any OEM filter, comply with ISO 0511, and have an almost linear flow capability regardless of dirt loading is why their the filter for me. As I said, you make up your own mind. Thank you very much for the comments, Andy.
Thanks. Hmmm....interesting hypothesis...seems we could set up a test with pulsed air. Here's the test I was talking about. Even under ideal conditions the K&N showed a 1.5" of water advantage, which is about 0.3% of atmospheric pressure. www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
Of critical importance-don't let that K&N filter dry out-I'm guilty of that. It'll harden up and eventually crack. (Found this out after getting a bike out of winter storage.)
G'day mate, thanks for watching. It is just a grease that they supply with some panel filters to help seal them into the airbox. They don't copy the paper filter seal design, they actually CAD design a totally new seal profile to fit the box nice and tight, paper filters rely on the seal to be squashed into the groove as it has a much softer duro. K&N have to be a more precision fit and the grease just helps. I imagine the compound is designed not to eat the urethane seal. Thank you for your comment, Andy
After 300,000 km The inside of my air box was covered in a very fine dust and MAF sensor on filter side was caked with black residue. took a while to diagnose the problem because the MAF sensor was clean on the engine side and I couldn't see the grime 'till I disassembled it. Those lab tests done by K&N are bogus. If you use a K&N filter, you must clean the MAF sensor every time you clean the filter.
K&n filters are good but i noticed that the air flow your engine makes pulls the fibers from the filter so I'm sure that their may be some dirt getting I
Interesting video, I've always used K&N filters and I know from experience then can cause MAF meters to fail. This in part down to design of the intake and probably the fact that I probably over oiled. I was also wondering what happened to k&n lifetime warranty/million miles. Their website now says 10 years! Either way I've put a couple in a 4.5 litre V8 Porsche Cayenne, which has no issues. Let's revisit the intake plenum (which I cleaned) and both MAF sensors too. I've not noticed an increase in power like I did with my Jeep, just a drop in mpg. I've done a before and after video of what it sounds like, let me know what you think.
G'day mate, thanks for tuning in and thanks for the comments. As I stated "as directed by K&N" I know that if you over oil the filter it can obviously carry oil through. That car sounds bloody nice, by the way. It's interesting that you find a drop in MPG, usually once the ECU adjusts for the CFM increase MPG improves as you normally expect to achieve the same power with less throttle input. I know with my Ford Falcon ute I saw an improvement. I don't pay a lot of attention because I don't really care about fuel economy, it is an in-line 4 litre 6 cylinder with double overhead cam with vvt and intercooled turbo. On boost, and with my foot in the back of the headlight, it consumes about 90 litres/100 klms (just over 3 MPG) but cruising at 100 kph (60 MPH) it improved from averaging around 12L/100 (23.5 MPG) to about 10.8L/100 (26 MPG). I did use more fuel in the beginning, but mostly because I was enjoying the improvement in torque and power delivery ;) Cheers, Andy
Andy's Motorcycle Obsessions Hi Andy, no worries really enjoyed somebody talking common sense on here. What's interesting is that you mention the ECU, which is bang on - AND I'm hoping to see a change WHY? Well a couple of days ago I decided to pull off the battery - which is a job and a half hiding under the passenger seat (steering wheel audio gremlin appeared), so I thought what the hell REBOOT. Among the correcting the multifunctional steering wheel quirk - it then threw up air suspension faults... Or at least until I figured how to calibrate it and drive! The K&N we have in the two Grand Cherokees WJ 2 .7crd and the WH 3.0 v6 CRD saw definite improvements in all areas. But this Porsche... I'm thinking of recording some more before and after, I only did one at idle and blipping the throttle. If you get half a chance it's in my playlist (it was dark but check out see if you can hear any difference). I'd appreciate any feedback! After also reading your thoughts about Cfm, maybe I should plug in the diagnostic reader and run it on a few before and after journeys with a data logger or something which would hopefully give us some good data. Last point quickly is the mpg, my dad (bless his soul) told me it was a good indicator that things are running correctly. Which I think he is right, more so on cars in the last 15-20 years where the ecu compensates by over fuelling to keep an engine running. Let's be honest, in the old days you could tell when timing belts and even chains had a little stretch and needed work. Nowadays they tell you when you hear a bang or the chain rattles on startup (jeep 3.0 CRD). I maybe think of a mutual subscription as I'm liking what I see on your channel, hope you think the same. 👍🏼
+iVlog the ECU should "self teach" for the change in process variable (PV) in this case air flow. The fuel air is controlled by a PID loop (Proportional Integral Derivative) which utilises PVs to control a function. In most fuel injection systems the PVs will be air in, or manifold pressure, and O2 levels in the the exhaust gas. Throttle position sender may also be utilised. An analog signal, either volts or 4-20 ma, from the sensors is used to maintain a set point at a given process, in this case fuel injector opening proportion. I'm in no way an expert in this field, give me a carburetor any day 😂
![The ULTIMATE Air Filter Test [Engineer Tested]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RdbFAG5xbyY/mqdefault.jpg)
nice detailed explanation! i had a k&n in my old car and liked it, now i want to use one in my new one but its a nice turbo and i read in forums that oiled air filters let through more dust. you can see pictures of dusty intake tunnels and there was a test that sayd that k&n let through the most dust. so if not the oil is an issue still there maybe a dust issue? and i live in germany do they also legally stand behind me and their product here?
I have to be honest and say that I am not sure about Turbo applications. My car is a Turbocharged 4 liter in line six and I have a K&N fitted. But as there is less pulsing on the suction side of a turbo it could possibly impact the active dynamic nature of the filter design. My advice would be to stick to the factory installation until you have done enough research to form your own opinion. Thanks for watching and thanks for raising the point, Andy
thank you for your answer! but this is where the research ends there is basically not much more information about those filters on the net than in your video and this comment concerning these issues. isnt this turbo issue also important to you considering the content of your video that seems to be to give a profound informatin on this great product? and since most of all new cars are actually turbocharged this is quite an important question. you seem to know more about these filters than anyone else here on youtube. cant you find out? i really want to use one because of the better turbo sound. and in my old non-turbo car the throttle response was much quicker dont know if that will be the case with a turbo.
Okay challenge accepted. I contacted K&N directly today, via their live chat feature on their website, they couldn't answer my question and referred me to their customer service team, whom I rang. Their response was that they have no data that suggests their filters perform any differently in Turbo applications compared to NA applications. Not fully satisfied with their response I have sent a message to David Vizard himself, however he is historically slow at responding. As soon as I hear anything I will let you know straight away. If you happen upon any information in the mean time please post it here, Andy.
u can wash a k&n, so worth it?
Andy: thank you, i appreciate it and try to find out more as well!
Dr Draws: its about the dust that (maybe) passes the filter ;)
Today I learned something new. Many say they are bad for your engine because they don't filter enough or the oil will damage the air flow sensor....but nobody has had a good explanation for their claims.
By the way, thank you for NOT killing us with atrocious music and childish theatrics. Excellent video.
Finally someone that makes sense about K&N filters and not speaking from the hip. I have a car with 285,000 miles only use K&N filters. I’ve never had an issue only better fuel economy and performance out of my K&N filters on all three of my vehicles.
Brilliant video. years back, I asked my mechanic to re - jet and K&N an old Africa Twin to boost its acceleration. It made a difference- we only gained 6bhp at its best - I never thought to add a K & N to my ducati. Thanks for posting .
I'm a firm K&N supporter and have them in everything I own on the road. I've never seen anything that even suggests they are not working correctly. I do however have problems with them offroad. I've tried them on bikes and atvs offroad and every time I've seen dirt get past. Even taking every precaution making sure they were installed correctly. On my offroad toys I run unifilters.
Finally git a good explanation of how the cotton fibers are filtering while the engine is running: vibration! Now I don't feel so bad. I just watched a guy dump a bunch of flower on his K&N filter and compare it to others. It was "static airflow" whatever that means (no vibration, I assume.) Anyway when he dumped the flower, it went right through the filter. He sped up the video so you couldn't tell how hard he threw down the flower compared to the other filters.
Put a K+N oiled air filter on my 2005 Ford Taurus SE with a 3.0 Vulcan engine. At 28,000 miles. That same K+N is still in the air box today. The car has 175,000 miles on it now! That filter has almost 150,000 miles on it. Still going strong. Clean it every other oil change or 10,000 miles. This car gets 25.5 miles to the gallon. The sound of flooring that 6 cylinder. Is AWESOME. This car will do 114 MPH before the rev limitor kicks in. Motor craft blend 5W20. First 150,000 miles now Full synthetic 5W20. Going for 200,000 miles with that same K+ N filter! Shawn.
With everything I've read and heard on the internet, both good and bad, regarding weather K&N filters increase performance and or can actually do damage to your engine it was quite refreshing to get actual objective facts and statistics rather than subjective opinions.
You've done an excellent job of explaining all this technical stuff to a lay person like myself. I will buy K&N filters thanks to you! Thank you
Only just came across this excellently presented review. I’ve used K&N filters for many years but never understood the science behind them.
That must have taken a lot of time to put together. Thanks for sharing.
I run K&N in all 3 of my cars and i love it and had no problems in Mustang, Starion/Conquest Tsi/04 Pathfinder LE, and i waited 2.5 yrs before i washed any one of them and never had a problem with none of them and i felt gains as soon as the 2nd day once the filter settles in you'll notice the difference, but i also mod my exhaust for best results.
I'm using K&N filter in all my vehicles
I've been using K&N filters for 27 years. Chevrolets, Pontiacs, Mitsubishi's, Honda's, and Kia's. So anybody that ruins a Mass Air Flow Sensor is Using TOO MUCH OIL. Lightly coat the fabric DON'T SOAK it.
This is a very interesting idea behind it, and it does make sense...................Engines don't have a constant static air flow like all the tests deal with, it does indeed pulsate with every cylinder pulse.
Our lungs also cause the same vibration as our bodies resonate at 60hz naturally. Our lungs have the same style of filtering, and if it's good enough for my body it's easily good enough for an engine.
I have used K&N Filters on all of my vehicles, and only had an issue with ONE cold air intake, and cheap plastic threaded barbs, and hoses being to short. But I have NEVER had a problem with the filters themselves, or them causing issues and have ALWAYS lasted the life of the vehicle without question.
Your explanation helped me to understand the benefits of the filter. The one thing I believe in theory is that the filter will get the air in at its most compressed state. therefore should be able to have a more violent expansion rate, and it is the expansion of air that pushes the piston down. this was also emphasized with what you talked about with cold air as the colder the air the more density allowing more expansion
After I bought a k&n filter for my 2006 Dodge 3500 powered by a 5.9 Cummins turbo diesel I wiped the intake with a rag coated with WD-40 After two years of use every time I clean the filter the intake is wiped with a paper towel just to see if it's dirty the paper towel comes out clean everytime. And I live in desert area of Idaho the dirt roads have dust that is as fine as talcum powder. Most of the problems imho are caused by loose fitting hose clamps as well as stress cracks in plastic air passageways. One of my clamps came loose 6 months ago and I noticed a little bit of dust build-up around the clamp seams inside. Had nothing to do with the filter.
Best explanation I've seen on oiled filters. Thanks mate very informative 👍
I recall reading the engine vibes had something important to do with the K&N performance. Your explanation is the best I've heard. Intake air pulsing. There is a popular test series of graphs been trotted around on many forums showing K&N is just about the poorest filter out there for not only clogging and also poor filtration of particulates. But, these are static tests, not on an actual motor with flow pulsing.
Now if we can get K&N to pull their terrible "welded nut" oil filters from the market (which seem to burst open at the weld pints without warning), they will be doing a lot to restore consumer confidence.
I put a K&N in my Triumph at the 10,000km mark, same ones been in there and gets cleaned and oiled every second service interval, I have had no issues at all and the bike breathes incredibly well :)
I should also add it's about to go in for it's 62,000km service, K&N will be getting a re-con and re-oil.
Thanks Jimmer, and thanks for watching
Thanks for this well informed video. I feel more confident that the K&N air filter that I installed in my Vstrom a couple of years ago was money well spent.
Thanks Andy. I,ve literally just got in from the garage after fitting a new paper air filter to my recently acquired BMW 1200gs and until searching never realised that what was fitted was a KN filter. I think you have convinced me enough for me to swap it back in tomorrow. Still thankfully now its Spring in UK working on the bike is a pleasure.
It's always a pleasure working on the bike mate, thank you for watching, Andy
Andy, you have a great way of speaking and making sense. I have used K&N filters on all my two and four wheeled time and distance shrinkers. Also, I am satisfied with K&N's product warranties. Thank you for the video.
G'day Jeffrey, thanks mate, and thanks for watching
Just pick up the drop in K&N air filter for a new Civic but have been hesitant to install it. Read a lot of stuff after purchase about MAF issues , fine particulates ruining engines and what not . In my mind it made sense if more air flow is allowed to flow thru the filter it must mean more particulates must get thru as well. Thank you for this explanation , actually makes a whole lot more sense . Gonna install that new K&N filter tonight !
Great work Andy. I really appreciate all the effort you go to in sharing your knowledge! Ride safe mate.
My dad ran a K&N on his 7.3L PowerStroke diesel for about 10 years. He said he cleaned and re-oiled it about once a year. When he decided to sell his truck, I thought I would swap the K&N to keep for my own 7.3. I could not believe the amount of fine dust I saw on the "clean" side of the intake. I threw the K&N in the trash. For reference: he lives on a dirt road, a half mile from pavement.
I've always used them (and maintained them properly) and I've never had a car that drank a drop of oil between changes so I ignore all the internet trolls who say they let loads of fine grit through. They simply can't be doing.
G'day Guy, thanks for watching. I hear ya mate. They do tend to polarise people somewhat, either love them or hate them. Fact is they do work and the work bloody well. Thanks again, and thank you for taking the time to comment. Andy
I just watched that exact video you referenced with the K&N team; none had oil on the MAF sensor. I'm a little more worried about particulates getting in my engine. I have the K&N CAI installed on my 2013 Honda Accord V6 coupe, and I'm liking it. Great induction sound and it includes a dyno sheet for my exact car, showing gains. It's pretty chilly up here in the PNW during the winter, so once things warm up, we'll see if I suffer any performance loss. You have put some of my fears to rest however, on it's filtering capabilities. Great video!
I fitted that K&N filter on my 1992 Ducatin 900ss without the air box top fitted by using a custom made frame to hold the filter down and fitted the K&N approved re jetting kit and then removed some of the restrictive baffles in the pipes. Wow! those few mods transformed the bike into a wheelie pulling hooligan of a bike! Even experience Thundersport race mechanics and racers simply would not believe that otherwise the engine was standard. It was quicker than any of their 1100 cc conversion bikes to 100mph and on the track. Then again, to be fair the 92 SS did have different gearbox ratios to the later models which may have helped.
This is the most informative video I have ever watched on here. 👍👍👍
As a widowed female who loves my truck, 8.lL chevrolet silverado with the allison transmission!! I really thank you Andy for helping me to understand my k & n air filter!! I took mine out and found it was extremely dirty and I've cleaned er up nice!
MY only question is: I don't have any k & n oil, is there something else I can use until I get some? This is my only vehicle and im 30 minutes from civilization, lol
I think I'd like to replace my maf sensor- it threw the code a while back but I ignored it due to the previous owners statements but everything he told me about the truck has been far from the truth right down to sinking $3100 into a new transfercase as mine had had some very back yard repairs, he also added the wrong antifreeze and argued so had to flush and pray it hadnt damaged the heads or block.., lol I've had to learn things I didn't dream of ever needing!!
So I very much appreciate your manner of facts!!!
G’day Janny, I wouldn’t recommend contaminating the filter with anything other than the recommended oil. If you have a paper filter I would use that in the interim. If not, try to get the recommended oil as soon as you can and try not to go thundering down dirt roads. Have a look at this video for the correct way to clean and oil a K&N type filter ruclips.net/video/kA-rY-05Nc4/видео.htmlsi=bkPDZUj_zBD-YFYd
I use K&N in my bike and like it. Thing is, you have to do your research and understand how they work, then you have to actually follow K&N's maintenance methods. I hear all sorts of riders say they use a strong jet of water to blast clean a K&N or compressed air on an oiled paper element filter, not understanding they are destroying filter. It takes a few minutes to educate yourself, then you're good to go. Thanks for sharing what you've learned ;-)
I just bought an K&N filter for my gsxr 750, looking forward to try it
I will be buying a k&n filter because of this vid. Great job you should definitely get a life time supply for this well done.
That would be nice, step up K&N! Cheers mate
G'day Andy. Watched a few of your videos. Great to see a fellow Aussie on here ;) I've just bought a set of K&N air pods for my GPZ1000RX which has set idle for about 9 years and now I've got it running again and your videos on carb tuning and the like will definitely help me. Huge thanks for posting such great content!
Andy, I agree with you 100%. It seems that people expect the air box the filter sits in to be so clean you can eat from it. After being a mechanic for 30 years, I've yet to see an air box where the filter sits to be clean. These people don't use a regular filter and then check the air box for cleanliness. It's always easy to place blame on something you know nothing about.
I don't agree with people who say that K&N adds hp. What it does do is last much longer if maintained correctly. The only way to get more hp with a K&N filter is to modify the fuel map and other components of the engine. A new paper filter will flow as much air as a new K&N filter. The issue with paper filters is that the pores clog and if not replaced on a regular basis, your engine may be starved of air. Of course if you thrown in a K&N filter after you had a very dirty paper filter, you may actually notice the difference but that's simply because your old filter was clogged.
Disagree.
Per say you have two masks...
1. OEM (thick filter)
2. Aftermarket (Better air flow filter)
1. If you run across the room with a thick mask filter, your lungs need to push harder which accounts to putting in more energy .
2. Now, a less restricted mask (better air flow) will be easier on the lungs and does not have to use more energy.
Basically saying the engine is like a big air pump, the better the flow of going in and out, the more horsepower it will gain
Yes, a tune is necessary to correct fuel and air ratio
Excellent vid..very informative and enjoyable.
Ive used k&n filters since the early 80s on all sorts of vehicles with no probs at all.
2 different fiat twin cam motors with oval filters on dual dcoes and dhlas.
Moto guzzi lm3 with panel filter insert.
Subaru ej25 with panel filter insert.
All worked great with good throttle response..it felt like air could accelerate through the carbs/efi more easily.
Doing up a 750 commando with a single 40phf conversion and pod filter gave a huge boost.
The most fun however was in modifying a p.o.s suzuki 250 single ..removing restrictive airbox and sponge filter..replacing with kn pod,rejet and enjoyimg thr most improbable increase in power ive ever felt!..cheers.
As a nurse specialised in intensive care, I find this explanation very interesting. It makes sense. I have been looking for a reusable airfilter for my honda crf 250 l. I ride that little bike like I stole it and the paper filter gets clogged raplidly. I ride dirt alot. A washable filter would be a nice upgrade. But the internet still does not advise it. The same comments keep on surfacing. Dust behind the filter et. I'm sticking with the stock paper air filter because it works and it's cheaper. But I still wonder...
That's cool, I'm not a salesman or a representative of K&N. You do what you think is right for your bike and your circumstances. Just make sure that you stay safe and keep loving bikes, thanks for tuning in, Andy
K&n filter has been in my v8 Toyota since 2000,it has 300,000 miles on it and I have yet had any problems with the truck. So ,it comes to tell me some don't know what the hell they are talking about .
+duane groomes yup, I hear you brother. Thanks for tuning in mate
Have a K&N Cold Induction on my 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix 3.6 liter with a stock Supercharger. 130K miles and it runs like a scared rabbit. Definitely helped flow and acceleration. Added a 3 in exhaust and saw huge improvement. Those 2 investments are the biggest bang for the buck.
duane groomes
aren't we talking about motorcycles?
Very helpful breakdown, I really appreciate the time you put into that explanation and comparison.
Thanks mate, I appreciate the feedback, Andy.
I have used K&N filters on 4 Corvettes and 2 Harley Davidsons. My current Corvette is a 2014 Z51 with NPP 14 exhaust. This motor is rated at 465 H.P at the flywheel in stock form. The folks at K&N have stated their replacement filter (not the entire cold air system) should add about 12 H.P. The stock GM filter is a Delco piece made in Pakistan. Without access to a chassis dyno, I can tell you that the K&N filter has allowed my direct injected LT1 to breathe much better. The power is noticeably improved, and with the traction control turned off, the 1st to 2nd gear change on the 6 speed automatic produces a pair of 2 to 3 foot rubber marks on very dry pavement. The stock filter allowed a slight "chirp" of the rear tires. This very unscientific method of measurement is very real...and yes, it is one of those situations that one just has to experience. I would also like to tell you that mileage is better, but that is impossible, because I'm just having too much fun with this very responsive Corvette.
I agree. Ppl are put too much oil and they don’t let it sit after oiling before install. I’ve used K&N for over 15 years. No issues. I’ve used them from e30 bmw, 80s R107 MB SL, Honda’s, VW tuned GTi no issues.
I have one on my 1988 AMC EAGLE, daily driver, has never had an issue. I do notice the engine breaths a bit better when I clean it. However, just having an air cleaner that lasts a lifetime is worth the one time price. I clean it about every eight months as I don't live or drive in any dusty areas.
Good explanation, thanks. Putting a new intake on my bike this spring with a K&N filter and I was wondering why everyone says they flow better. Also, I live in Canada, getting a cold air intake is not a problem here, getting warm air intake, especially last summer, is an issue.
Been using k&n on my street equipment. Iv put one in my Honda Blackbird and it's little more responsive with it. I still use foam unifilters in my Honda xr650r and old Landrover as I recon they handle large amounts of bulldust better. Also each time I clean any one of these filters I have a good examin of the intake passage for any dirt that may pass but never find any. And I've never had any issues with the air flow sensor on any machines.
They are worth every penny. Excellent building quality.
My Honda Gold wing’s manual says not to use oiled air filters.. they don’t say why but I suspect that the oriole could file sensors like oxygen sensor, airflow sensor, temperature sensor systems that are tied to the fuel injection computer. I like the standard air filter replacement that I put in my Honda Pacific coast in 1994. I cleaned it every year and we oiled it. When I sold my Pacific coast in 2020, that same air filter was still in service in my Pacific coast..Of course my Pacific coast did not have fuel injection or the sensors associated with fuel injection..
I had oil on my airflow meter once .... It was my fault but I did a shit Job of application of the oil and some got onto the meter the issue is I guess that you can't take that human element but I have run k&n for years and love them !
Yes it can happen, as I said. No issues if used correctly and as directed by K&N. It's best to only apply the oil to the non engine side of the filter and allow it to wick through. Thanks for watching, Andy
Andy's Motorcycle Obsessions ! yep you can't take that human element out working in engineering and mechanical for 20 years has taught me that ! but used properly there great
+Ryan Dunne ain't that the truth mate, if I had a dollar for everything I've buggered up I'd be a millionaire 😂 live and learn I guess.
That's very interesting. I never heard that story. They are high quality materials
I love K&N filters, I use both the air and oil filters on my bikes both road and race, I even use them in my car and the van that I use to take my race bikes to meets. Never have an issue, not once.
I use their oil filters too, even though they are made in China. The quality control is obviously in check as they are of excellent quality. Thanks for watching, Andy
I can listen to you all day... Thank you for the info I'm buying one right now.
Airbox is engineered for controlled air volume. Extremely important with CV carbs!
Yes it is, converting kinetic energy into pressure energy is no mean feat. CV carbs require consistant pressure for the air correction jets, emulsion tubes, diaphrams and venturi. Thanks for tuning in mate, Andy
Thank you for (finally) clearing the air.... (Pun intended) about the K&N.
Have a K&N panel on my 2003 Volvo v70, think I must have over oiled it at some point. K&N oil on the MAF and its working absolutely fine so either I've been lucky or the oil truly doesn't affect it. When I took the filter off one side was filthy and the other side was very clean. That's my personal experience of them. Also had a K&N on my last car for 3 years and never had a problem with the MAF. Here in the UK we also have Pipercross foam filters, would love to see a comparison between them and K&N with airflow and dirt filtration.
G'day Peter, many men, many methods I say. I would presume that the Pipercross units are similar to the Fram or Ram Air foam filters, which means that they rely on the pores to trap the particles. This means that they start losing efficiency from the minute you start the engine. I reckon they would flow pretty well, for a while anyway. Thanks for watching mate, and thank you for the comments, Andy
G'day Andy - VERY interesting! I learnt something today! My Ford V6 has a K&N and my Yamaha SR500 too. Very pleased with them. I didn't use one in my 916. :-) Love the SS and its "music"! All the best, Rob
G'day Rob, thanks for the comments and thanks for tuning in. They have a great sound don't they? All of my bikes have their signature note, and all sound fantastic, but the Ducati is my favorite noise by far. Andy
Had the same issue when I bought my RamAir induction kit.Had all the muppets saying it doesn’t work you get no gains.Even thou Dyno Reading have proved gains are there.
Succinct explanation. I've just fitted a K&N to my car, very happy with it.
This is a well presented and helpful discussion. I’m going to try K&N on my BMW car.
Thanks Andy, that was very informative, coincidently I am running K&N filters on all my bikes and I wasn't totally aware of their benefits
If you want to change your oil all the time then use k&n, I have a duramax diesel truck with a stock filter, My oil is clean not black. Like I always notice with a k&n or likewise filter. They let most the dust in, nothing like having grit and dirty oil in your motor all the time....
Good video. In line with my K&N air filter use over 20 yrs on cars and now on my Triumph Bonneville.
However, I've recently lost faith in K&N the company as pertains to their response to years and years of reports of failures on their oil filters that have a "removal" nut spot welded to the outer casing. . According to K&N, the welded nut is only to be used during removal of the filter and never should be used to install the filter. So, unlike every other nut and bolt on a bike/car etc., users need to always keep in mind this is special thing...to be turned in one direction only. A quick google search for "K&N Oil Filter Failure" finds many, many reports on all sorts of bike and even cars.
Undoubtedly, some of the failures are due to user not following this silly one direction only requirement. But, there are also many reports for users stating categorically that they only hand tightened their filters, never touched the welded nut and yet it still failed.
Note that when these fail on a bike, oil is spewed out directly in front of the rear tire in many cases. There are wrecked bikes and even seized engines being reported (one on the Triumph forums got his engine replaced by K&N for this failure...good on them I guess). I am not aware of any injuries from such a failure, but can imagine this is a very real risk.
Though these reports date back to well before 2012, K&N recently issued a recall on a limited batch of their 204 model oil filters for bikes...produced from Mar. 2017. The recall just gets you a replacement welded nut filter and you're left to hope it's not going to leak.
Here is a web site dedicated to this issue I came across recently:
oilfilterfailure.com/
Please do a video on this issue and get the word out to fellow riders!
P.S. I've alerted Matt from The Workshop about this and he might do a video...but nothing yet....you could scoop him ;-)
Thanks.
Great video. Very detailed and that is what I like. Keep going. Deserves a like for sure. :)
I have use K&N filters for 25 years and dealerships who serviced my vehicles have never questioned them. It is always some independent who sells replacement filters that tells you they don't work. The same guys that tell you that you must change your oil twice or three times more often than the manufacturer recommended intervals
Super video and very informative. Spot on with everything. Enjoyed listening to you!
David Vizard researches stuff well, though I think his testing of K&N filters was primarily done on flow benches and carbed engines. I have run their panel filters in the standard air box in both of my most recent cars. The current car is turbocharged so I doubt there is much inlet pulsing. One of DVs original articles looked at the particle sizes that caused most engine wear, the results were not what you might expect. DV also did extensive work into comparisons between race cars that ran no air filters and the comparison with the K&N equipped cars. The unfiltered ones soon lost significant power due to engine wear. Thank you for the interesting video.
+g0fvt you are correct on all points, although unless your intake valve is open constantly you will have pulsing and an intake frequency. Both my wife's and my car are turbocharged too, I have K&N in mine but hers is still factory. From memory the damage causing particle size is >20 microns. Thanks for tuning in, Andy
Enjoyed the video, regarding the pulsing, in my turbocharged application there is an intercooler probably behaving as a plenum. Living in England of course the operating conditions are somewhat different, the paper elements were probably changed in the winter, I certainly remember they felt as though they might be slightly damp. Never seen any flow tests on damp paper flters! Never had any sensor issues.... it seems the comments are very polarized one way or another
David Vizard an absolute authority on the BMC A series engine. ( I know not a bike engine but have been fitted to sidecars) and my frogeye.
G’day Nightster. I have just returned from a hectic time away and I see many comments from you. I will be going through everyone’s comments over the next few days. Thanks for all of your input mate.
@@ANDY5 No worries matey I said before I know you have a life to live and its not the end of the world I don't get an answer. I been finding the XS progression really interesting and been following it as Im sure you can guess. Its ok for me Im off work just now so loads of time. Cheers matey.
I bought a k&n filter for my Harley Davidson, just the filter, it was kind of expensive, but if I buy 2 filters from Harley Davidson I've already paid more than I would have for the k&n filter
An extremely well put argument. Thank you.
I put a K&N air filter on my bike and it ran like crap, too much air for the motor. I put my OEM filter back on and now it's running great again. Keep your money and keep the OEM air filter.
G’day mate. Your engine only draws as much air as time, barometric pressure and pre chamber restrictions allow. There is no such thing as too much air, your bike ran like crap because you didn’t have enough fuel. Rejetting would have been a better option, you just choked the engine again by putting the OEM filter back. Thanks for watching though, and for taking the time to comment. Andy
Thanks for posting this as taught me history of K&N
My last bike came with one of there filters ill get another one for next bike(s)
I used a K&N years ago on a dirt bike .. with no air box as I had put a GYT Kit on my 1974 Yamaha YZ-80A which used a 16 mm carb the GYT kit used a 24 mm carb I tripled my HP with porting ect.. Hit a water puddle and the engine would drown out .. with water.. again no protective air box.. Also I had a piece of sand big enough slip though after hitting water to stick my throttle wide open sand in the slide..
I have never used the cleaning fluid I need to get some .. For dirt bikes I have stuck with the foam filters that you oil can wash them in gasoline though I think Mineral spirits would be a lot safer..
I added a K&N in the nose of my snowmobile to pull in cold air .. Snow will turn to water clog and freeze the K&N Solid .. but a Compnay called Outer Wear makes socks to put over K&N filters that has such a fine mesh it lets air though but won't let water drops through ..
The best combo if you use K&N off road is to use a sock.. Anytime you change any air filter on any thing with a motor .. run your finger on the inside of the air intake boot and look for dust and dirt.. I did this with a Farm Tractor that had an oil bath air filter and found out the intake hose had a crack in it .. It was sucking raw dusty air into the engine until I replaced that 2.5" air boot
outerwears.com/products.asp?cat=12219
Some good tips in there Mike, thanks mate
@@ANDY5 I just saw your welding video .. I have two Mig Welders one can do stick AC DC ect I have a torch and a Plasma arc cutter .. The only thing I don't have is Heli arc .."TIG" that's the cats meow for fine work .
I do things like repair aluminum dump truck boxes I have a spool fun for my Mig welder so much faster for non precision work .. TIG does not warp things.. I do make my own hydraulic hoses too but have not messes with stainless.. Putting gas on the inside of a fitting will make it look nicer for sure..
I have C02 .. 75% agron 25% CO2 Hellium and straight Argon for Aluminum and Stainless ect .. it gets kind of involved.
Your Video to adjust valves on the Ducati was very informative .. I'll stick to brands that parts are more available and less expensive .. I like the Triumph Tiger 800 XCA .. which will not be as easy to find parts for as Yamaha .. but the bike suits where I want to ride
I like Triumphs, I owned a '05 955i Daytona and my father flew to Tasmania and hired a Tiger 800 for a tour of the island with me. Super capable machine.
FYI I am no welder. I am a maintenance fitter and "get by" with a lot of different tasks, certainly not in your league Mike.
Excellent description, thanks for the clarification. I have been pro- K&N in concept but somewhat reluctant based on, as you say "muffin" reports. I also watched K&N's video (seems quite a few of those muffins in the comments there too) and felt very confident with the overall explanation. I recently ordered one for my Audi TT & another for my new BMW F800GS, they offered free delivery all the way from USA to South Africa & I received it in a week. Appreciate your rational approach, cheers!
I'm a youtuber with 900+ videos. A 2018 F150 with the 3.3 v6 make 290 hp. So if I put a K&N air filter in there. The engine will make more hp, per K&N.
The problem I have with that is. The 2018 5.0 v8 make 395 hp and use the same stock air filter.
So they standardised the airbox across engine variants, that’s not uncommon. As I said the factory air intake system is usually designed to flow more than what you need ( engineered redundancy), it’s how some filters reduce in efficiency that has an effect on air flow over time. Thanks for watching mate, stick with whatever works for you 👍
bit late but....have been runnin' K&N pods on my 900 Super Sport since 1980 - would not be without them. Have always reversed flushed them with kerosene, air dried and re-oiled - never had an issue.
Great Video, Andy. Very informative and loved to see a fellow Aussie on youtube
Nice job. You mentioned that some modify air-boxes to allow "more air flow" by creating a larger opening. That is not possible. With it running you would have lower pressure at those non-engineered new holes than the OEM part, thus less air entering, not more. That is why we calculate the proper tube diameter and length to match desired torque curves. (Head flow, port to head pipe...pipe to muffler) There is no one setting that works in every condition. On a dyno you would see a smaller/flatter torque curve.
I understand the intake track length design philosophy, but does that extend to the atmospheric side of the filter? The barometric pressure remains constant but if the airbox design does not accommodate adequate flow verses engine consumption at WOT surely that would have an impact on the flow rate into the filter?
@@ANDY5 Good question when you ask "if" the air box design has inadequate flow at WOT. When anything in that whole dynamic is changed, everything else is affected. Before modifying the air box, it would be best to know what it is actually designed to do/what it's capabilities are. My preference is tune for torque, gear for top end. To your question, yes, the pressures on both sides of the filter are affected. Super complicated..PM me somehow.
I may understand intake tract but my spell check doesn’t (track). I have no intention of modifying my airbox, I assume Ducati enginerds know more than me. I don’t think you can PM on RUclips anymore. If you wish to share like my Facebook page and send me a message there.
I run K@N on my bikes. carbs are jetted to suit and power commanders on efi bikes. One time while the cleaning the K@N on my carb bike that was jetted to suit K@N I put the stock OEM air filter on the bike. Took it for a squirt and it didnt run well and really choked 3000 rpm up. reinstalled the K@N and she screamed to redline. to me this said the OEM didnt flow as well and was choking the carbs with higher flow jetting. stock bikes might behave differently but i would still be looking to rejet or use a power adder if I went K@N.
Very informative video, enlightening. cheers Andy
This is my idea if you have a high performance car for drag race 1/4 mile or oval track etc yes use this filters. But for a regular car or truck the oem filter is good. I use wix filters and no problems.
Thanks mate for explaining this in so simple way. It helped me to make my mind about k&n`s filters! Cheers!
Thanks for watching
they are one of the best and proven. regardless air or oil filters. ******
Well done Andy 👍👍👍👍
If you are using aftermarket air filters for Your vehicle and still have warranty don't let the dealership know it can Void your warranty. For best results use OEM. People say K &N air filters save money maybe But if you ever have an issue with your engine or anything else. You would come out of pocket because the dealership won't cover.
People make 2 mistakes with K&Ns: They clean them too soon, and they use too much oil.
Just used dawn dish soap it cleans the dirt and oil way better than the k&n products it self..
@@joeg.1119 Me too the cleaners in the kit didn't last over one cleaning.
So how often do you clean your K & N, I do mine every 12 months (Triumph Street Triple )
Brilliant explanation 👍🏻
+Jenny Lloyd thanks mate, and thanks for tuning in
Thanks for making this informative & interesting video review
Got this on my 94 ranger and works amazing good .
nice history and science lesson :)
+Frollet thanks mate, and thanks for watching
I am in two minds whether I will use K&N filters in the future, my current car has one of their panel filters, as did my previous one. Not sure how much inlet pulsing will happen with this car, with a turbo and inter cooler the flow is probably pretty smooth. I do remember the original David Vizard assessment, he is someone that approaches these things with an open mind. Never yet had a MAF issue, but equally no before and after dyno plots.
Super informative, thank you.
I'm looking at changing air filter from oem to performance for my punto with 1.4 tjet engine. Will help with decision making
Awesome information , really well done bro !
thanks for you help mate, really useful advice
Oiled gauze air filters typically have fewer, shallower pleats, which means much less surface area. This means they most have MUCH bigger pores to flow the same or more air- they don't filter nearly as well. Tests show the benefits, when new, are only a few hundredths of a psi...perhaps 0.3% less restriction, but that's only when new; the reduced surface area means it'll pack up with dirt much quicker and be more restrictive than stock. Check out this test. Max benefit they show is about 1.5" of water when clean compared to the most restrictive paper filter, which is 0.05 psi. Not saying it'll kill your engine right away, but there will be more wear for negligible benefit.
G'day mate, and thanks for watching. I'm not sure what test you are referring to, you didn't leave a link. Automotive air filters are tested to ISO 5011 standard. This test involves a static airflow of a given m3 flow rate. ISO controlled test dust (ISO 12103-A2 or ISO 12103-A4) is introduced and they measure amount in verses amount out as well is pressure differential. Controlled engine wear testing has determined that particulate sizes above 20 micron is what causes engine wear, smaller particulates become carbon deposits. All other tests I've seen on the interwebs are sales gimmicks designed to promote a particular filter type, including K&N, i.e. ball in tube flow tests or those 100 CFM filter box set -ups that "shock" you into how much dust is drawn through a particular competitors filter compared to the type they are trying to convince you to buy. I guess if you drive through dust storms all of the time that could be relevant. As I stated in the video most airboxes will handle whatever flow rate your engine demands, and then some. As automotive filters are nominal filters, as opposed to absolute filters, even the tightest worst flowing designs will still allow large particles >20 micron through, but as long as it proportionally satisfies ISO 0511 they will still comply. So here is the thing...K&N comply with ISO 0511 yet do not perform as well as other filter types in static airflow testing, as I mentioned. However in an engine application they do perform as well as paper and foam designs thanks to the kinetic energy pulsing created by the intake valve. The dirt adheres to the cotton strands and not the pores and they will flow incredibly well even when loaded. David Vizard conducted testing on a BAJA engine which was loaded with in excess of 1/6" of dirt, and the filter in that particular test was still flowing better than a new paper filter. The fact that they filter as well as any OEM filter, comply with ISO 0511, and have an almost linear flow capability regardless of dirt loading is why their the filter for me. As I said, you make up your own mind. Thank you very much for the comments, Andy.
Thanks. Hmmm....interesting hypothesis...seems we could set up a test with pulsed air. Here's the test I was talking about. Even under ideal conditions the K&N showed a 1.5" of water advantage, which is about 0.3% of atmospheric pressure. www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
blurglide wanna back up ya claim?
I did. Click the link above. Here it is again... www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
blurglide yeah that doesnt explain crap
God, hard to believe the k an n has more surface area with the frame leak off blocking that much area
Of critical importance-don't let that K&N filter dry out-I'm guilty of that. It'll harden up and eventually crack. (Found this out after getting a bike out of winter storage.)
+James Robert good tip
Great video and great intel on the history on K&N. But I've never heard of K&N grease?
G'day mate, thanks for watching. It is just a grease that they supply with some panel filters to help seal them into the airbox. They don't copy the paper filter seal design, they actually CAD design a totally new seal profile to fit the box nice and tight, paper filters rely on the seal to be squashed into the groove as it has a much softer duro. K&N have to be a more precision fit and the grease just helps. I imagine the compound is designed not to eat the urethane seal. Thank you for your comment, Andy
After 300,000 km The inside of my air box was covered in a very fine dust and MAF sensor on filter side was caked with black residue. took a while to diagnose the problem because the MAF sensor was clean on the engine side and I couldn't see the grime 'till I disassembled it.
Those lab tests done by K&N are bogus. If you use a K&N filter, you must clean the MAF sensor every time you clean the filter.
+Adam Schweinsberg we must have cleaner roads around here, thanks for watching mate, Andy
I clean the filter and recharge it once a year. A good filter is supposed to stop dust. K&N doesn't stop the dust.
Very interesting video, thanks for posting this up!
K&n filters are good but i noticed that the air flow your engine makes pulls the fibers from the filter so I'm sure that their may be some dirt getting I
Interesting video, I've always used K&N filters and I know from experience then can cause MAF meters to fail. This in part down to design of the intake and probably the fact that I probably over oiled.
I was also wondering what happened to k&n lifetime warranty/million miles. Their website now says 10 years!
Either way I've put a couple in a 4.5 litre V8 Porsche Cayenne, which has no issues. Let's revisit the intake plenum (which I cleaned) and both MAF sensors too. I've not noticed an increase in power like I did with my Jeep, just a drop in mpg.
I've done a before and after video of what it sounds like, let me know what you think.
G'day mate, thanks for tuning in and thanks for the comments. As I stated "as directed by K&N" I know that if you over oil the filter it can obviously carry oil through. That car sounds bloody nice, by the way. It's interesting that you find a drop in MPG, usually once the ECU adjusts for the CFM increase MPG improves as you normally expect to achieve the same power with less throttle input. I know with my Ford Falcon ute I saw an improvement. I don't pay a lot of attention because I don't really care about fuel economy, it is an in-line 4 litre 6 cylinder with double overhead cam with vvt and intercooled turbo. On boost, and with my foot in the back of the headlight, it consumes about 90 litres/100 klms (just over 3 MPG) but cruising at 100 kph (60 MPH) it improved from averaging around 12L/100 (23.5 MPG) to about 10.8L/100 (26 MPG). I did use more fuel in the beginning, but mostly because I was enjoying the improvement in torque and power delivery ;) Cheers, Andy
Andy's Motorcycle Obsessions Hi Andy, no worries really enjoyed somebody talking common sense on here. What's interesting is that you mention the ECU, which is bang on - AND I'm hoping to see a change WHY? Well a couple of days ago I decided to pull off the battery - which is a job and a half hiding under the passenger seat (steering wheel audio gremlin appeared), so I thought what the hell REBOOT. Among the correcting the multifunctional steering wheel quirk - it then threw up air suspension faults... Or at least until I figured how to calibrate it and drive!
The K&N we have in the two Grand Cherokees WJ 2 .7crd and the WH 3.0 v6 CRD saw definite improvements in all areas.
But this Porsche... I'm thinking of recording some more before and after, I only did one at idle and blipping the throttle. If you get half a chance it's in my playlist (it was dark but check out see if you can hear any difference). I'd appreciate any feedback!
After also reading your thoughts about Cfm, maybe I should plug in the diagnostic reader and run it on a few before and after journeys with a data logger or something which would hopefully give us some good data.
Last point quickly is the mpg, my dad (bless his soul) told me it was a good indicator that things are running correctly. Which I think he is right, more so on cars in the last 15-20 years where the ecu compensates by over fuelling to keep an engine running. Let's be honest, in the old days you could tell when timing belts and even chains had a little stretch and needed work. Nowadays they tell you when you hear a bang or the chain rattles on startup (jeep 3.0 CRD).
I maybe think of a mutual subscription as I'm liking what I see on your channel, hope you think the same. 👍🏼
+iVlog the ECU should "self teach" for the change in process variable (PV) in this case air flow. The fuel air is controlled by a PID loop (Proportional Integral Derivative) which utilises PVs to control a function. In most fuel injection systems the PVs will be air in, or manifold pressure, and O2 levels in the the exhaust gas. Throttle position sender may also be utilised. An analog signal, either volts or 4-20 ma, from the sensors is used to maintain a set point at a given process, in this case fuel injector opening proportion. I'm in no way an expert in this field, give me a carburetor any day 😂