I don’t necessarily agree with the sentiment on parry. If the video is complaining about how baby mode they made Jin, why complain about the one thing they made less lenient and require more precision than before to use? Auto block made it easier to spam parry. Now you actually have to know the timing and are punished for not timing it right.
I didn't meant the parry strength I meant that now it is way riskier than before and when a Beginner or intermediate will fail the parry, it would demotivate him greatly and because of it his determination of mastering the will be effected greatly..
@@mwkan772 so you’re sympathetic with making it easier for beginners to parry but not when it comes to giving Jin the same kind of access to whiff punishment that Kaz and Reina have with wind god fist? Going by the same logic, would it not demotivate new players if they did not get rewarded for whiff punishing with wind god fist? I understand how satisfying it was it hit electrics with Jin in 7 since it was harder than all the other Mishimas. But in 8, I think that leeway is understandable due to how the game is much more focused on offensive play. I think of his easier execution more as a ‘sacrifice’ that will help Jin stay more consistent overall. Especially in high levels of play. We will likely see more representation of the character due to this.
I thought the same thing. I see where he is coming from tho. I guess he's saying there is less to aspire to so people won't even bother. Like the parry is just so risky unless you have a very precise hard read or understand frames and impulses quite well. Whereas with whf in your example, its just flatly easier to launch, but the electric whf still has loads of reasons to master it. Non-electric whf is just a whiff punish tool whereas electric whf is also an amazing keepout, pressure, and combo tool. So there is still very good motivation to learn it and therefore adds to the perceived difficulty of the character unlike the parry which is more of a write-off now.
The parry changes is the only one i agree with in tekken 8. The rest illustrates the core problems with this game with combo leaniency. In tekken 7 the risk/reward was so heavily skewed in favor of a parry attempt and it made it somewhat spammable as it had zero recovery on whiff lol.
Jins hook fist has always evolved through the tekken games, from not launching to ch launching and now it launches on normal hit, so that’s not really something to complain. He has evolved every game with that move. 14f launch heat mechanic is something a lot of chars will have in this game since it’s how T8 is designed around. You can still do hard combos if you want to, while T7 has a iWS4 in the WS2 combo, in T8 you can do 2 electrics after a WS2 into a micro dash B3 Zen, my point being you can’t say execution has decreased overall (the floor has been reduced but the ceiling is still high) when he still has really hard combos. His 100$ combo is gone yes, but it doesn’t mean a new one isn’t present, let the character flourish i’m sure there’s already insanely hard combos of T8 jin present already waiting for that title. Comparing rage drives is not even a good point as no char has similar mechanics here, so saying it dumbed down jin is stupid.
Hell if I remember correctly, it took a couple games for all the Mishimas (Armor King included) to get their respective godfists. They kept changing properties every game for the better mostly and its no different now
From 2001 to 2020, Jin was getting evolved and upgraded to be a perfect traditional Karate character. In Tekken 7 (as much as I dislike movement in that game) he reached his all time peak; -Complete unique move-set that set him apart and made him much more fleshed out than Jin in the previous games. -Not the hardest to get started with, but had a massively high skill ceiling if you wanted to master him, both in player level and mechanical level. -High execution = high reward. he was a very strong yet balanced character, although his strength was gate kept by execution requirements and a good amount of general game knowledge. including match up familiarity. -A jack of all trades character who does not feel like he stole his moves/functions from other "specialist" characters. (*cough* Leroy *cough*) As much as I dislike Tekken 7's movement system and overall design philosophy; (I prefer 5DR) I can't really help but admit that I enjoyed T7 Jin the most, he felt complete, rewarding to you as long as you were skilled enough, challenging you to land his better combos, but when you get used to doing them you feel so good. I hate how it took 19 years for Bamco to develop and improve upon Jin's revamped Karate style since T4 until T7 only to throw it all out the window with T8. T7 was not a perfect game imo, but T7 Jin was perfect, and that says something about how a character can peak when given time and care.
Yeah. Regular Jin really felt complete in 7. And that's kind of how I feel now about Devil Jin in 8. Those wings finally have a use. But hey, who knows, maybe in Tekken 9, they will give him back that same care he had, and with him accepting his past and re-utilizing the Mishima and Kazama styles, we might get that same feeling for Jin, again.
@randomvideoboy1 You good? he is difficult to get started with but not as much as someone like Kazuya, Akuma and the likes... he can be used with simpler gameplans and moves to get a feel with, until the player is ready to learn to do his more advanced stuff. And no, his reliance on the electric is there but it's not as necessary to master from the get go to, unlike Kazuya and Heihachi. Or even other complicated characters like Eliza, Akuma, Lee for example. I'm not saying he's not hard to get good with. that's not true, but I'd be lying if I said that he is the most difficult to get a feel for when trying him out for the first time, which also depends on other factors.
This guy always will be difficult character in high level matches . But in tekken 8 removed so many difficult moves and you dont must spend time to skilling your execution when playing him .
@@pigva9157 compared to the top tiers for sure because they are on a completely different playing field. But at high level he's really not that much more difficult to play than at low level imo. D2 really can't be overstated. Tracks sidewalk to both sides after a blocked jab. 70 damage counter hit launcher. +4 into full crouch mixup on normal hit. High crush. Only -14 on block so many characters can't even launch it. Zen 4 is honestly amazing as well.
@@UltimateBallaPOM FC df4 for the low, he basically has heihachi's fc df4. They land face up feet away so you can get something guaranteed if they get up too quickly. And for the mid you can do ws2 for a risky launch (14 f) or ws1321241 or whatever it is. There are loads of things you can do out of it but when I play Jin I do the FC df4 or ws2/ws13.../ws44.
Bro its not just about Jin. The whole game is easier than 7. And most jin main has played Jin enough that they at least know how to do electric i have no problem with it because i think they make it easier Because sometimes in online Match, connection is really annoying.
For me it's not difficulty on its own per se, but more him being an all-round character who had a move for every specific situation. It's rare for a Tekken character to require using more than 5-6 moves in order to be good with him. That, and him fighting more like a genuine karate practitioner; not really feeling the devil-style flips and scratches he has in 8.
I mean, we still have execution characters. Lee's executional stuff got boosted with the cardinal moves. We have Raven, Kazuya, Dragunov, yk. that good stuff. Maybe put king in there as well?
@@Untimable dragunov? nahhhh. King isn't all that crazy with the execution. Just a bit of muscle memory for giant swing and tombstone and you're set, only takes a couple days of focused practice. Especially now that point blank instant while running moves have been made trivial. The only sort of difficult execution thing that King has is the post bound sidestep into shining wizard off counter hit df21(?). Raven is kind of wonky to play at first, but I wouldn't call it execution-demanding, moreso just knowing your way around the character well. Lee and especially Kazuya are exceptionally execution heavy though fs. I say especially Kazuya because he's now in the position Lee was in in Tekken 7 where you need incredible execution to get any decent damage. Like Kazuya's super hard difficulty bnb off electric does less than DevilJin's basic beginner level combo off electric. Other than that, Steve, Reina, and Bryan is all I can think of. Most other chars that had high execution stuff like Law had it removed entirely or trivialized.
Surface level Jin is easier....in depth he is relatively the same with a few tweaks. Anybody that believes he’s brain dead really hasn’t gone in depth with the character...
Someone with a brain that isn't parroting Jin iS BrOkEn because he has d2 and f4. Despite d2 is actuality reactable and with f4 you can't zen cancel to make it safe.
@@raiaanahmed8804its actually possible to make hes f4 into zen cancel safe it just requires perfect execution, d2 isn't reactable in online conditions and very hard to react offline because of the other stuff you need to react to.
@@Doctor...7-g8j while true with f4 into zen cancel it is however too difficult/off putting. Disagree with what you said about d2 it is reactable even on online unless it it like 2 bar or lower.
@mrdeez....6294 it kinda is,most jins use it after 123 or after strings where they aren't massively negative. Even then,youre not looking for the animation,you're listening in for the sound of his little war cry to block it.
seams like all game companies are copying each other , make games super easy to play by mashing buttons and getting easy electrics , reminds me of mk trilogy option on nintendo 64 where you get auto full long combos by pressing 1 button lol , i'm not cpmplaying cause i get that's asmart move by them so everyone can play this game , more sales more money but the hard worker/gamers who grinded for years to achieve masterering level of thee charecters can get wrekked now by 3 year old kids that button mash lol .sad though .
Forget the difficulty, he was so much cooler stylistically in T7. The moves, the sound effects, the animations, the movement. I genuinely think T8 improved upon most of the cast, but to me, Jin was a downgrade from an appeal perspective.
as a new t8 player who picked up jin, i'd more or less agree but i'd like to at least mention that canceling zen into crouchdash is fun and strict on timing if you want to pull it off constantly my APS wall blast combo (APS>AWGF, b23F~1, bf23F~12 WB!, b12 T!, f31F HD!, db223) might be able to sneak that bf23F~12 into bf23F~12DF~2 to wall blast with auto-electric EWHF
the biggest loss to Jin was that there were so many viable and unique ways to play him, and he had so many moves that meshed together to create a complex gameplan that was a deep as you could make it. now you use the same 6 buttons and there is virtually no reward for the hard work vs. the easier routes. oh and removing ZEN cancels is lame, combo game is SUPER boring now.
I'll start off by saying I watch a lot of your videos, and generally enjoy the content. that being said, I can only assume you made this because its a great click bait title, it seems this argument has been coming up a lot though so I'll address some things as a Jin main from from Tekken 7, who is still playing him in 8. 1: "Regular hook fist now launches" -- its really a non-factor in this "baby" character argument. its -10 on block so anyone who wants to play Jin is going to NEED to be practicing the just frame input. +5 on block is a tool you will need. Otherwise you wouldn't ever use it, you would just hopkick since its a 15f mid that is just as punishable for the most part. 2: "-14 electric punish vs heat 3 1 punish" -- No one, and i mean NO ONE, will ever be able to punish -14 moves with electric enough for it to be worth practicing. Show me a single Jin player that even attempts this in 1 tournament. None of them ever did. I think that's all that needs to be said. 3: "hellsweep combos required great execution" -- This is not true in the slightest, Max damage hellsweep could be mastered in a pretty short time. If anything, hellsweep being considerably weaker in Tekken 8 is a counter to your own title. 4: "You can now bound after b3 Zen" -- No one does this in Tekken 8? I'm not sure if you're saying bf 2 3 zen~3 required some kind of incredible execution to preform (it didn't), but.. its still what every Jin player uses, but its bf 2 3 zen~u1 now. A harder input if anything. If what you mean is that EWHF into iws4 was a difficult pickup then yes you're correct. I stapled the combo and it took awhile to master. This hardly dumbs down the character though. 5: "f4 combo is easier" -- Your first point that is correct. I'll leave this one alone 6: "no 100$ combo" -- Micro dash is very much relevant on the character still. But even that aside, nobody should use b3 f2 1 as an ender in Tekken 8, it does not reliably give you wall follow up. Instead you'll see most Jin's are doing b3 f1 -> Jab -> deep dash b3 2. This gives you reliable wall follow-up, without sacrificing much damage. Its not an easy staple either. 7: "Parry is harder in Tekken 8" -- This one concerns me the most about your argument. Jin's parry in Tekken 8 requires you to have more precise timing, its even more difficult to master. De-motivating low level players is an issue for you all the sudden..? Isn't this entire video about Jin being a baby character... You really lost me here, Its hard to believe you're serious about this one. 8: "Optimizing T7 Rage drive" -- I mean, you're right. But Jin's combos are still difficult to optimize, I haven't seen you show a single combo that people mastering the character actually use.. so its tough to really use this as a valuable argument in any way. To sum it up, the only points that really make sense are that Jin had tougher combos in Tekken 7. What has always made Jin a difficult character, is that he requires you to play the entire game of Tekken. He is above average at most things: Punishment, Keep out, Poking, Damage, you name it. He does not however excel in any one area. You can't win with any one part of his game alone. You must use all of his tools, and know when to use them. An auto-pilot Jin is a weak Jin, and none of that has changed in Tekken 8. If i am missing something please correct me, But I just don't see the argument here at all.
I've been back at t7 with couple of friends for some days now... First match I played I already felt like a stone from my characters feet was removed since the even crippled the movement in 8
Youre crying about silly things honestly. F4 being difficult made it so that about 4 tournament level players were landing it consistently. The highest placing Jin, DanielMado, didn't even bother with it, Book missed it all the time, Atiff and CBM could be they opted for other characters. Everyone has easier combo routes for more damage in 8. The ws2 combo you did, hardly any Jin was going for that combo also. The auto block frame encouraged Jin players to just throw out the parry. It's actually harder in 8 on top of it being hard-countered by grabs.
@@CosmicVoid420 Jin is 100% easier in T8 but that's not a bad thing. (B3 being a multi-purpose tool is fine, but it should get a damage nerf to encourage other combo fillers like iws4 and bf2,3... And even then, the difference will be 3 or 4dmg and it will still be the preferred route because it's extremely consistent). Law players are in a position now where Gosain won't be the only high level player representing Law anymore HOPEFULLY. (Double abandoned, Malgu didn't compete internationally).
@@mwkan772 the way you present the video makes it seems like it with how you made the thumbnail of the video and some points you show which are downright silly.
Kazuya, Reina and Devil Jin can launch on a not electric laucher and Jin can't? Don't forget that his zen cancel is harder now, his parry is weaker.... They just give some move for beginner, but the good old tricky Jin is still there. The only bullshit move is his zen1,2 cancel in breaking step. Absolutely broken.
basically to get more people to play the game they made moves super easy , even 4 year old kids can do electrics now must feel great for all the hard working guys that played jin tekken 7 to have little kids jugling them.
Who cares he's still fun to play and now my friends who used to be hardstuck at green ranks and quit Tekken can actually play the character they like and made it to flame ruler last weekend
@@SPRINGS02 because having stupidly high skill floor makes players not want to pick up a character because they're not gonna see any improvement in a month. the best character design is a low skill floor with a high skill ceiling, because it allows new players to pick up a character and allows veterans to master said character and be rewarded for it. jin is a near perfect example of such character. want ewhf without execution ? zen-bs-2. why is it fine ? because it's slow as fuck. so if you want electric to be good, you need to input it the right way jin is in a very good state right now because he's played a lot, he's a fundamental character and is fair. strong, but fair new players pick him cause he's the protagonist, they play with his easy stuff, then they learn fundamentals thanks to how jin is designed and then they learn the hard stuff. perfect learning environment now picture a new player picking up lee or kazuya. hard to play, nothing works unless they squeeze their every braincell. they get tired and lose interest in the game because character they wanted is too hard. and mind you both jin and kazuya have similar skill ceilings (not counting balance in the equation) you know why nobody new played jin in tekken 7 ? because he was miserable to play as a new player because of the unnecessarily high skill floor
@@abra2133plenty ppl played Jin lmao sounds like copium for being brain dead honestly this is why Harada says new gamers cry too much and suck back then it used to be literal kids mastering these moves because it's all you had now you have baby mode moves in fighters so ppl will choose baby mode
He is still a difficult charcter to master at higher level because of hes infinite reactive potential of hes parry and hes stances, he is easier to approach tho and definitely got a lot of quality of life changes like d2 and hes change of hitbox
Personally think. Outside of a few characters (Bryan and Steve mainly) all the characters are relatively easy for their reward. Kazuya being another exception, but also the most legacy based character so harder to change. Overall I think easier is better. As the game becomes less bout execution and more about outsmarting/outplaying. Hate games that do “my wrists are better and I practiced this combo 10 hours straight so I’m better lol” also to complain bout Jin, when king, viktor and acuzena exists is a little crazy lol.
Yeah, they made him way easier, but WAAAAY cooler, and he has way more skill expression now with the many different ways to play him and mixing them together, IMO it's almost perfect, reduce the skill floor but not the ceiling, but they reduced the floor a bit too much.
I don't really mind the dumb down as a Jin main but he still requires some execution to fully utilize him. Literally everyone is dumbed down anyways so I don't really mind the changes
For me the worst chance that was made to the parry is that Jin is no longer able to Parry Power crushes and Rage Arts. (I might be wrong but I have tried to parry those two attacks and I'm always getting hit by them).
I'm not complaining, I wanted to learn to play with another character that was not law, if it is not to everyone's liking that it be simplified, I really see it as an unjustified complaint, I know that it was difficult for some people to perfect a character, the same happended to me with law, now everybody is a perfect dss master...but guess what *"Just because you learned that way doesn't mean everyone should do it."*
Sooo... basically every character from t7 to t8? Maybe except leroy but all other characters got a lot of "easier" moves that synergize with their kits, people forget we are talkin about 2 different games. Jin in t8 ain't that much easier, definitely still tough to push into the higher ranks and still a high skill ceiling, he's still a mishima
I think they did a good job lowering the floor and making an appealing character for new players while also keeping the ceiling high , also it's kinda silly point out that the parry is more unsafe when trying to make the point that the new Jin is braindead
@@BecomingYourIdeal TE. His 50/50 - He has EWGF a plus frame high that launches on normal hit, FF3 that's a safe normal hit launcher, and a hellsweep that either launches in some situations or gives the best oki setup possibly in the game. This is broken when you consider what else he has. He has no weaknesses. His poking is amazing. His range is crazy. His counter hit game is some of the best. His tracking is excellent. His movement is excellent. Some of the best lows in the game if not the best. I think he's better than DJ. Every time I face anyone decent I get blown up. It isn't like this vs. any other fundamental character.
His. 50/50 is insane compared to who? Ewhf is good yes but his follow ups are not oppressive at all magic 4? F4? Another elec? His 50/50 is the slowest which gets fuzzied a lot. His oki is BETTER but best in the game? Red rank talk what dontoubgetbhit with after hell sweep? His counter hit game pshh d2,f4 niche trade magic 4 launch if you mashed those are his launchers outside heat. His backdash sucks and he only has 1 good reactable low dvj hell sweep is 16 frames and launches. his pokes name his good pokes?
Easier combos overall don't necessarily mean baby mode. Many fighting games offer minimal button presses in exchange for less emphasis on "oh my god how did this combo go again" and more "how do I approach this fight?" You're less likely to waste your time mastering difficult combos because you get to the good parts quicker (talking about the newcomers to Tekken rather than the seasoned players) meaning you get better quicker. That and T7 and T8 are MILES apart in the movement department. T7 feels so clunky after spending time in T8.
To be fair all of his electrics are the worse version of the real Mishima electric. So WHF being a launcher is fine. Otherwise I agree with you. Hell...not only Jin. Even Devil Jin went full GGStrive'd when compared to Tekken 7... You only need single electric and then easy 70+ damage combos
Little bizarre to complain about the parry loosing its auto-block frames. That's the complete opposite of Namco babying the character, as it makes the parry less forgiving.
Colour me old-fashioned but I think that people who want a character who's simple in terms of game plan and/or lacks taxing execution demands should pick a character who's already designed that way, of whom there have always been quite a few in Tekken, rather than demanding that a character who isn't designed that way be dumbed down to suit them. This blurring of the distinction between low- and high-execution characters is one of several things I detest about T8.
I don't think most of it is the biggest problem. He used to be complex, had to use all the moves in his arsenal. In T8, d2 / 214 / df14 / f4 is all you need in the neutral. And all of those are on a roided version. He isn't fun in this game, tho feels strong in capable hand. Thankfully at least he is not an unga bunga one.
Well the way i see it Its a huge win for us jin mains ( non sweaty ones ) Cuz yes T7 jin is really stylish but that comes with really high executions T8 jin gives you a WAY more stylish jin with nearly zero executions ( n remember , T8 jin is already way more stylish than T7 jin even without the utilization of Zen cancels in his combos ) when we watch book's , cbm's , or devilster's jin in a tourney or online matches , we're like damn their jin is built different with the zen cancels n the microdash n all , in T8 we ain't gonna have to waste our time practicing for years n years to get those performance , we can get them in less than a day or 2 for intermediete jins , heck we can get an even way more stylish jin than t7 jin , and that is without zen cancels , imagine a fully labbed T8 jin 3 or 4 years from now WITH the Zen cancels Thats my take One more thing : DEH >>> dah Peace (Ps : oh and try and go watch Savage ogre's Jin CBT Combo Vid , you guys wont regret it )
Jin's hook fist works like a wind god fist. Why is this an issue? He's just able to what his family members can do. Hook fist was a crappy move for a lot of the past games and now it actually has some use as a whiff punisher. And yet it's still worse than Kaz's or the others since he uses up his tornado off a hook fist. You're saying he's a baby character for having a worse WGF.
I used to have respect for Jin in T7 because i know that i’m facing a good player and i’m gonna have a good match but that’s not the case anymore he’s close to Hworang easy level
Also in tekken 8, dashes can be buffered much easier. I think this is a good change though, it felt very awkward in tekken 7 for reason. So the $100 combo would still be really easy even if a microdash was required. Parry in t7 was very dumb. If you want moves so completely phase through you, it should require proper timing
Look how they massacred my boy…. They also made zen cancels a just frame every time, and if you play on a 4 gate stick it’s basically impossible. So you’re not incentivized to do those either.
You're missing the point. Tekken 7 Jin was exceptionally strong, and had moves that HAD to be hard to use for them to be balanced, because of how good the moves are. Execution isn't just a showcase of mechanical skill and a fun factor, but it's also to balance a character. Execution adds a layer of inconsistency that is needed to balance out a character. When execution is removed on a character that sort of needs it to be balanced, what do you think happens? They made his f+4 extremely hard to use for a reason in Tekken 7, and that reason was to balance it. So what do you think happens to his f+4 when they not only remove ALL execution to it, but also buff it's combo potential and utility?
I admire this concept , it's still not true look at claudio's damage/ toddler execution or lars even despite him having no damage , or look at paul erasing your health with 2 hits , jin tekken 7 was unreasonably hard and the only real strong thing that needed true skill reaction is the parry u can go the easy ay out in tekken 7 with jin if u can electric , tekken 8 made jin accessible which is a must @@Brainzzz123
Old f4 was better cause of bad movement in game and better zen stance 1+2 was just dumb, and zen cancel is now harder, t7 Jin actually better I guess,2.4 knock down,hs launch bad movement make his 2.1 more annoying,db4 ch knock@@Brainzzz123
Im a long time fan and player of jin and i like the way they are taking him but i despise the way everyones been robbed at high level play theres almost no difference combo wise like the 100$ combo was a means for strong players or f4 but its all universally doable and i really miss zen 3+4 its such a cool move but youll never really see it
😮Ehh some of those changes made the character harder. Im surprised you didn't include the d2 claw he does which tracks gives frames and is a Ch launcher as well as great poke pressure tool. The nerfed hellsweep gives no combo but the d2 easily remedies that nerf for beginners. As for the parry there is less incentive but players who do use it expertly like devilster and the alpha are so much better than advanced players who can't(CBM,Book,Arsenality). Devilster parry combo vs TMMSWE recently on Kazuya Petricide fist in a ft10 was literally optimal Jin players. Beginners or even advanced players can't compete with that. As for the microdash combos i think its a welcome change because a huge factor in T7 power creep in new vs legacy characters were the impossible combos legacy characters like Jin Steve Kazuya had to do meanwhile the average Akuma Geese Eliza Noctis combos were easier hit harder and gave more oki/set up than the legacy characters mid but difficult combos.
What I really dislike about Jin in T8 is his d2's CH launching property. I don't mind him being easy to pick up but I can't get over how stupidly rewarding d2 is. It should be either -16 or they simply remove the CH launch and I'd be 100% fine with Jin in this game and I'm saying this as a former Jin main.
devs either probably make him the ryu of the game reminds me also how broken sol was in guilty gear strive as well back then his F.S he is also the mc of that game too
I do agree with the video on the whole, though I do actually like the parry change. It being less safe incentivises good use of it imo. It feels great blowing up a string or a slow but advantageous mid with it. Its still a strong tool but it functions more like an actually parry now that it has some risk to it. And one change i really like is the eCD1 addition of hitting grounded while the vanilla version doesn't. It feels so good hitting someone on the floor with it. My only gripe is in most situations, D+2 will also work for similar damage and lower execution at the cost of pressure afterwards. But thats a problem with how much D+2 does tbf. Regardless of that though, oki games with eCD1 are hella fun Though i cannot deny that Jin on the whole feels much simpler..... though i can't complain too much, since unlike T7 i can now actually win with Jin 😅
So parry being harder is still an argument in favour of Jin being easier or what? The offence is easier and the defence is harder. That's a universal change. It's still pretty hard to win with this character compared to others as his heat mode is not that impressive.
would be cooler if his parry was a little bit safer or reliable in exchange for reward i always like to see cool moments like that, i also disagree with most of what you said, jin back in tekken 7 was really inconsistent but i agree that combos need to have a little bit more "skill gap" as in progression to skill, most combos dont need much execution and deal good dmg. besides wgf on block is -10, so atleast a seasoned player would be able to punish it. you have to remember that we are only humans and tekken is a game that surpasses human abilities, also we are limited by time we cant really master jin entirely without being called a filthy fat slob lol ig the point is the game is about making it more fun, not overly precise and perfective
This has happened to almost all characters except for Leroy. They made him hard mode. No character specialist anymore. No unique expression. All the same. Weak.
Call me a baby but I am pleased that they took out the zen cancel crap to make his f4 CH combos possible. It was such a barrier to using Jin properly in T7.
I understand the sentiment, but I like the idea of an easily recognizable character for newcomers. If you play Street Fighter, you might be told to play Ryu as a starter. If you play Guilty Gear, you might be told to play Sol as a starter. If you play Mortal Kombat, you might be told to play Sub Zero or Scorpion as a starter. The list goes on and on. Obviously this is just at the very beginning, and you're inclined to disagree. In Tekken, on the other hand, you might be told to play Bob, or Jozie, or Katarina, or someone like that, and you might say: "who?". It's not that big of a deal since it's more important to learn with a character you actually like, but I always found it interesting.
I don’t necessarily agree with the sentiment on parry. If the video is complaining about how baby mode they made Jin, why complain about the one thing they made less lenient and require more precision than before to use? Auto block made it easier to spam parry. Now you actually have to know the timing and are punished for not timing it right.
I didn't meant the parry strength
I meant that now it is way riskier than before and when a Beginner or intermediate will fail the parry, it would demotivate him greatly and because of it his determination of mastering the will be effected greatly..
@@mwkan772 so you’re sympathetic with making it easier for beginners to parry but not when it comes to giving Jin the same kind of access to whiff punishment that Kaz and Reina have with wind god fist?
Going by the same logic, would it not demotivate new players if they did not get rewarded for whiff punishing with wind god fist?
I understand how satisfying it was it hit electrics with Jin in 7 since it was harder than all the other Mishimas. But in 8, I think that leeway is understandable due to how the game is much more focused on offensive play. I think of his easier execution more as a ‘sacrifice’ that will help Jin stay more consistent overall. Especially in high levels of play. We will likely see more representation of the character due to this.
I thought the same thing. I see where he is coming from tho. I guess he's saying there is less to aspire to so people won't even bother. Like the parry is just so risky unless you have a very precise hard read or understand frames and impulses quite well. Whereas with whf in your example, its just flatly easier to launch, but the electric whf still has loads of reasons to master it. Non-electric whf is just a whiff punish tool whereas electric whf is also an amazing keepout, pressure, and combo tool. So there is still very good motivation to learn it and therefore adds to the perceived difficulty of the character unlike the parry which is more of a write-off now.
The parry changes is the only one i agree with in tekken 8. The rest illustrates the core problems with this game with combo leaniency.
In tekken 7 the risk/reward was so heavily skewed in favor of a parry attempt and it made it somewhat spammable as it had zero recovery on whiff lol.
that makes no sense@@mwkan772
There was a time where I actually enjoyed fighting good Jin’s.
Yeah I was somewhat decent as jin then they changed him it was jaring so now I main kazuya hwoarang and yoshi
Because they were free. Now when they actually able 2 fight back U no like anymore huh?)
@@Jurgir09 Um? Most good Jin’s kicked my ass.
@@Jurgir09 now even a 4 year old kid can do electrics with jin just by button mashing , smart plan by harada so more people will play this game .
U fell of@@Yeshua_is-Cool
Jins hook fist has always evolved through the tekken games, from not launching to ch launching and now it launches on normal hit, so that’s not really something to complain. He has evolved every game with that move. 14f launch heat mechanic is something a lot of chars will have in this game since it’s how T8 is designed around. You can still do hard combos if you want to, while T7 has a iWS4 in the WS2 combo, in T8 you can do 2 electrics after a WS2 into a micro dash B3 Zen, my point being you can’t say execution has decreased overall (the floor has been reduced but the ceiling is still high) when he still has really hard combos. His 100$ combo is gone yes, but it doesn’t mean a new one isn’t present, let the character flourish i’m sure there’s already insanely hard combos of T8 jin present already waiting for that title. Comparing rage drives is not even a good point as no char has similar mechanics here, so saying it dumbed down jin is stupid.
Hell if I remember correctly, it took a couple games for all the Mishimas (Armor King included) to get their respective godfists. They kept changing properties every game for the better mostly and its no different now
nah he isn't baby mode he just believed in his heart
Don't forget the "Dah!" :(
Dvj has it but barely noticable
Me with the "dah" mod: 👀
Basicly "the power of believe of shonen protagonist"
From 2001 to 2020, Jin was getting evolved and upgraded to be a perfect traditional Karate character. In Tekken 7 (as much as I dislike movement in that game) he reached his all time peak;
-Complete unique move-set that set him apart and made him much more fleshed out than Jin in the previous games.
-Not the hardest to get started with, but had a massively high skill ceiling if you wanted to master him, both in player level and mechanical level.
-High execution = high reward. he was a very strong yet balanced character, although his strength was gate kept by execution requirements and a good amount of general game knowledge. including match up familiarity.
-A jack of all trades character who does not feel like he stole his moves/functions from other "specialist" characters. (*cough* Leroy *cough*)
As much as I dislike Tekken 7's movement system and overall design philosophy; (I prefer 5DR) I can't really help but admit that I enjoyed T7 Jin the most, he felt complete, rewarding to you as long as you were skilled enough, challenging you to land his better combos, but when you get used to doing them you feel so good. I hate how it took 19 years for Bamco to develop and improve upon Jin's revamped Karate style since T4 until T7 only to throw it all out the window with T8.
T7 was not a perfect game imo, but T7 Jin was perfect, and that says something about how a character can peak when given time and care.
Yeah. Regular Jin really felt complete in 7. And that's kind of how I feel now about Devil Jin in 8. Those wings finally have a use. But hey, who knows, maybe in Tekken 9, they will give him back that same care he had, and with him accepting his past and re-utilizing the Mishima and Kazama styles, we might get that same feeling for Jin, again.
@randomvideoboy1
You good? he is difficult to get started with but not as much as someone like Kazuya, Akuma and the likes... he can be used with simpler gameplans and moves to get a feel with, until the player is ready to learn to do his more advanced stuff.
And no, his reliance on the electric is there but it's not as necessary to master from the get go to, unlike Kazuya and Heihachi. Or even other complicated characters like Eliza, Akuma, Lee for example.
I'm not saying he's not hard to get good with. that's not true, but I'd be lying if I said that he is the most difficult to get a feel for when trying him out for the first time, which also depends on other factors.
@randomvideoboy1 He's always been OP, but at least his execution requirements make up for it.
Underrated comment
Removed all the execution that made him a difficult character to play a high level matches
This guy always will be difficult character in high level matches . But in tekken 8 removed so many difficult moves and you dont must spend time to skilling your execution when playing him .
@@pigva9157 compared to the top tiers for sure because they are on a completely different playing field. But at high level he's really not that much more difficult to play than at low level imo. D2 really can't be overstated. Tracks sidewalk to both sides after a blocked jab. 70 damage counter hit launcher. +4 into full crouch mixup on normal hit. High crush. Only -14 on block so many characters can't even launch it. Zen 4 is honestly amazing as well.
@@tongpoo8985
What's this supposed FC Mix-up you're getting at +4 with Jin?
@@UltimateBallaPOM FC df4 for the low, he basically has heihachi's fc df4. They land face up feet away so you can get something guaranteed if they get up too quickly. And for the mid you can do ws2 for a risky launch (14 f) or ws1321241 or whatever it is. There are loads of things you can do out of it but when I play Jin I do the FC df4 or ws2/ws13.../ws44.
@@tongpoo8985 fc df4 is i25 and seeable, if u get hit by it its a skill issue
A guy told me at my local that nobody was doing F4 pickups and that everybody was going to zen I was fucking baffled
That's literally the truth. Look at majority of T7 Jin clips, players nearly always go for the zen cancel
@@tabkg5802 I know but that is so so unfortunate
Whats wrong with going into zen stance after F+4? 😂
@@papidaz9020 just simply that you still get a combo while not committing to zen
@@omegasmr3056you could zen cancel and be safe so it was no big deal
Bro its not just about Jin. The whole game is easier than 7. And most jin main has played Jin enough that they at least know how to do electric i have no problem with it because i think they make it easier Because sometimes in online Match, connection is really annoying.
true , smart move by bandai so they can get more poeple to play tekken cause it's much easier .
I mean making a game easier is okay making a character that is known to be technical easier? I definitely disagree eith
Thanks for the feature man 😄💪🏻
thanks for the combo :D
To me what made jin fun is his difficulty as a character in Tekken7 and tekken8 is not giving that feeling again
Yeah it is really disappointing. One of the coolest characters mechanically in all of fighting games and now he's just whatever.
For me it's not difficulty on its own per se, but more him being an all-round character who had a move for every specific situation. It's rare for a Tekken character to require using more than 5-6 moves in order to be good with him.
That, and him fighting more like a genuine karate practitioner; not really feeling the devil-style flips and scratches he has in 8.
He's absolutely braindead and his FF2 has infinite range.
I mean, we still have execution characters.
Lee's executional stuff got boosted with the cardinal moves.
We have Raven, Kazuya, Dragunov, yk. that good stuff.
Maybe put king in there as well?
@@Untimable dragunov? nahhhh. King isn't all that crazy with the execution. Just a bit of muscle memory for giant swing and tombstone and you're set, only takes a couple days of focused practice. Especially now that point blank instant while running moves have been made trivial. The only sort of difficult execution thing that King has is the post bound sidestep into shining wizard off counter hit df21(?).
Raven is kind of wonky to play at first, but I wouldn't call it execution-demanding, moreso just knowing your way around the character well.
Lee and especially Kazuya are exceptionally execution heavy though fs. I say especially Kazuya because he's now in the position Lee was in in Tekken 7 where you need incredible execution to get any decent damage. Like Kazuya's super hard difficulty bnb off electric does less than DevilJin's basic beginner level combo off electric. Other than that, Steve, Reina, and Bryan is all I can think of. Most other chars that had high execution stuff like Law had it removed entirely or trivialized.
Surface level Jin is easier....in depth he is relatively the same with a few tweaks. Anybody that believes he’s brain dead really hasn’t gone in depth with the character...
Someone with a brain that isn't parroting Jin iS BrOkEn because he has d2 and f4. Despite d2 is actuality reactable and with f4 you can't zen cancel to make it safe.
@@raiaanahmed8804its actually possible to make hes f4 into zen cancel safe it just requires perfect execution, d2 isn't reactable in online conditions and very hard to react offline because of the other stuff you need to react to.
@@Doctor...7-g8j while true with f4 into zen cancel it is however too difficult/off putting. Disagree with what you said about d2 it is reactable even on online unless it it like 2 bar or lower.
@mrdeez....6294 it kinda is,most jins use it after 123 or after strings where they aren't massively negative. Even then,youre not looking for the animation,you're listening in for the sound of his little war cry to block it.
@@Doctor...7-g8jWell d2 or scourge if you will is more reactable than generic mishima hell sweep plus it’s ain’t that bad if you don’t press into it
Tekken 7 Jin " I need all of your time and execution meanwhile Tekken 8 " just push buttons "
seams like all game companies are copying each other , make games super easy to play by mashing buttons and getting easy electrics , reminds me of mk trilogy option on nintendo 64 where you get auto full long combos by pressing 1 button lol , i'm not cpmplaying cause i get that's asmart move by them so everyone can play this game , more sales more money but the hard worker/gamers who grinded for years to achieve masterering level of thee charecters can get wrekked now by 3 year old kids that button mash lol .sad though .
@@crisalcantara7671if ur getting wrecked by a 3 year I have news for you bud
Forget the difficulty, he was so much cooler stylistically in T7.
The moves, the sound effects, the animations, the movement.
I genuinely think T8 improved upon most of the cast, but to me, Jin was a downgrade from an appeal perspective.
true
His costume was bad, many of his move were clunky i mean just look at his df1 , arguably the worst looking df1 in Tekken 7
Don’t forget “you’re a joke” got removed :(
@@infamousFML that was arrogant jin lol .
jin is now super saiyan ryu
just press. d+2, Jin Kazama win.🙂
as a new t8 player who picked up jin, i'd more or less agree
but i'd like to at least mention that canceling zen into crouchdash is fun and strict on timing if you want to pull it off constantly
my APS wall blast combo (APS>AWGF, b23F~1, bf23F~12 WB!, b12 T!, f31F HD!, db223) might be able to sneak that bf23F~12 into bf23F~12DF~2 to wall blast with auto-electric EWHF
Removing the launch from hellsweep is not a bad thing lmao
Lol exactly. It was way stronger in T7.
It is the only change i am happy about as someone who doesn't play Jin. 😀
And the execution requirement. Like, what execution you need to buffer bf2,3 zen 3 or b2,1 4
It lowers the difficulty though
That's why Michel Muray told before that Tekken 8 will manage beginners experience too. Not just for lagacy player.
Tekken 8 Jin mains getting salty in the comments 💀
the biggest loss to Jin was that there were so many viable and unique ways to play him, and he had so many moves that meshed together to create a complex gameplan that was a deep as you could make it.
now you use the same 6 buttons and there is virtually no reward for the hard work vs. the easier routes.
oh and removing ZEN cancels is lame, combo game is SUPER boring now.
I'll start off by saying I watch a lot of your videos, and generally enjoy the content. that being said, I can only assume you made this because its a great click bait title, it seems this argument has been coming up a lot though so I'll address some things as a Jin main from from Tekken 7, who is still playing him in 8.
1: "Regular hook fist now launches" -- its really a non-factor in this "baby" character argument. its -10 on block so anyone who wants to play Jin is going to NEED to be practicing the just frame input. +5 on block is a tool you will need. Otherwise you wouldn't ever use it, you would just hopkick since its a 15f mid that is just as punishable for the most part.
2: "-14 electric punish vs heat 3 1 punish" -- No one, and i mean NO ONE, will ever be able to punish -14 moves with electric enough for it to be worth practicing. Show me a single Jin player that even attempts this in 1 tournament. None of them ever did. I think that's all that needs to be said.
3: "hellsweep combos required great execution" -- This is not true in the slightest, Max damage hellsweep could be mastered in a pretty short time. If anything, hellsweep being considerably weaker in Tekken 8 is a counter to your own title.
4: "You can now bound after b3 Zen" -- No one does this in Tekken 8? I'm not sure if you're saying bf 2 3 zen~3 required some kind of incredible execution to preform (it didn't), but.. its still what every Jin player uses, but its bf 2 3 zen~u1 now. A harder input if anything. If what you mean is that EWHF into iws4 was a difficult pickup then yes you're correct. I stapled the combo and it took awhile to master. This hardly dumbs down the character though.
5: "f4 combo is easier" -- Your first point that is correct. I'll leave this one alone
6: "no 100$ combo" -- Micro dash is very much relevant on the character still. But even that aside, nobody should use b3 f2 1 as an ender in Tekken 8, it does not reliably give you wall follow up. Instead you'll see most Jin's are doing b3 f1 -> Jab -> deep dash b3 2. This gives you reliable wall follow-up, without sacrificing much damage. Its not an easy staple either.
7: "Parry is harder in Tekken 8" -- This one concerns me the most about your argument. Jin's parry in Tekken 8 requires you to have more precise timing, its even more difficult to master. De-motivating low level players is an issue for you all the sudden..? Isn't this entire video about Jin being a baby character... You really lost me here, Its hard to believe you're serious about this one.
8: "Optimizing T7 Rage drive" -- I mean, you're right. But Jin's combos are still difficult to optimize, I haven't seen you show a single combo that people mastering the character actually use.. so its tough to really use this as a valuable argument in any way.
To sum it up, the only points that really make sense are that Jin had tougher combos in Tekken 7.
What has always made Jin a difficult character, is that he requires you to play the entire game of Tekken. He is above average at most things: Punishment, Keep out, Poking, Damage, you name it. He does not however excel in any one area. You can't win with any one part of his game alone. You must use all of his tools, and know when to use them. An auto-pilot Jin is a weak Jin, and none of that has changed in Tekken 8. If i am missing something please correct me, But I just don't see the argument here at all.
i actually have 0 motivation to play jin anymore tekken 7 jin was very unique and fun but now i can't fathom playing/fighting against him
You can take very little risk with him, and get some good damage, has safe strings, with some pushback on one of them.
Idk man, youtuber Devilster using Jin is a motivation for me to do the PEWHK and do combos
@@rarenerdw9611 devilster is sick but what is the PEWHK if you don't mind me asking
@@xjwr385 Perfect Electric Wind Hook Fist, oh wait i misspell, its suppose to be PEWHF
@@rarenerdw9611 and when is it used
I miss T7 already..
Same, people were so hyped for tekken 8 for nothing by the looks of it 😂
@@rustywrench500nah y’all crazy. Soon as the balance patch drops you’ll see that this game is better
@@akwl0l812 we'll see.
I've been back at t7 with couple of friends for some days now... First match I played I already felt like a stone from my characters feet was removed since the even crippled the movement in 8
I fucking don't. Hated dealing with Zafina and Kunimitsu.
even tho his is not my main but as a kaz player i miss his Dah
i can't imagine kaz without the dorya shouting
Youre crying about silly things honestly.
F4 being difficult made it so that about 4 tournament level players were landing it consistently.
The highest placing Jin, DanielMado, didn't even bother with it, Book missed it all the time, Atiff and CBM could be they opted for other characters.
Everyone has easier combo routes for more damage in 8.
The ws2 combo you did, hardly any Jin was going for that combo also.
The auto block frame encouraged Jin players to just throw out the parry. It's actually harder in 8 on top of it being hard-countered by grabs.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing about the parry auto block thing.
@@CosmicVoid420
Jin is 100% easier in T8 but that's not a bad thing.
(B3 being a multi-purpose tool is fine, but it should get a damage nerf to encourage other combo fillers like iws4 and bf2,3... And even then, the difference will be 3 or 4dmg and it will still be the preferred route because it's extremely consistent).
Law players are in a position now where Gosain won't be the only high level player representing Law anymore HOPEFULLY.
(Double abandoned, Malgu didn't compete internationally).
*cough cough
Kazuya
*cough cought
Why am I crying?
It's just a comparison video nothing else..I'm not hating on the character..I'm just showing how hard jin was in Tekken 7
@@mwkan772 the way you present the video makes it seems like it with how you made the thumbnail of the video and some points you show which are downright silly.
the amount of you wanting to feel special for playing t7 jin is astounding
Have fun playing an easy mode version of Tekken
Damn, the gatekeep is strong. Not even sure what character to play so people dont say "carried by my character". I think imma go back to CS...
Yes, gate keeping should be a thing
Separates the wheat from the chaff
Don't listen to these losers
Kazuya, Reina and Devil Jin can launch on a not electric laucher and Jin can't? Don't forget that his zen cancel is harder now, his parry is weaker....
They just give some move for beginner, but the good old tricky Jin is still there.
The only bullshit move is his zen1,2 cancel in breaking step. Absolutely broken.
He was a high execution character, he still have some now, but as you showed us, a lot have been made easy
basically to get more people to play the game they made moves super easy , even 4 year old kids can do electrics now must feel great for all the hard working guys that played jin tekken 7 to have little kids jugling them.
@@crisalcantara7671 yeah true 😞
Because of him becoming easier I went from a mighty ruler in t7 to a raijin in t8 very quickly
Who cares he's still fun to play and now my friends who used to be hardstuck at green ranks and quit Tekken can actually play the character they like and made it to flame ruler last weekend
What's wrong with ppl having to work and actually learn a character they wanna play? Don't get this logic
Lame mindset, total NGMI
@@SPRINGS02 because having stupidly high skill floor makes players not want to pick up a character because they're not gonna see any improvement in a month. the best character design is a low skill floor with a high skill ceiling, because it allows new players to pick up a character and allows veterans to master said character and be rewarded for it. jin is a near perfect example of such character. want ewhf without execution ? zen-bs-2. why is it fine ? because it's slow as fuck. so if you want electric to be good, you need to input it the right way
jin is in a very good state right now because he's played a lot, he's a fundamental character and is fair. strong, but fair
new players pick him cause he's the protagonist, they play with his easy stuff, then they learn fundamentals thanks to how jin is designed and then they learn the hard stuff. perfect learning environment
now picture a new player picking up lee or kazuya. hard to play, nothing works unless they squeeze their every braincell. they get tired and lose interest in the game because character they wanted is too hard.
and mind you both jin and kazuya have similar skill ceilings (not counting balance in the equation)
you know why nobody new played jin in tekken 7 ? because he was miserable to play as a new player because of the unnecessarily high skill floor
@@abra2133plenty ppl played Jin lmao sounds like copium for being brain dead honestly this is why Harada says new gamers cry too much and suck back then it used to be literal kids mastering these moves because it's all you had now you have baby mode moves in fighters so ppl will choose baby mode
@@abra2133 Incompetent player detected
Oh man what a good character in Tekken 8 :D
i will admit jin f4 having an easy pick up is fair because ,bryan, lili and some others in the cast have the same move with even easier pickup
wait till tekken 9 where he use all style
Jin scrubs all power up in tekken 8.
He is still a difficult charcter to master at higher level because of hes infinite reactive potential of hes parry and hes stances, he is easier to approach tho and definitely got a lot of quality of life changes like d2 and hes change of hitbox
Personally think. Outside of a few characters (Bryan and Steve mainly) all the characters are relatively easy for their reward. Kazuya being another exception, but also the most legacy based character so harder to change. Overall I think easier is better. As the game becomes less bout execution and more about outsmarting/outplaying. Hate games that do “my wrists are better and I practiced this combo 10 hours straight so I’m better lol” also to complain bout Jin, when king, viktor and acuzena exists is a little crazy lol.
Nah bro but like for real every Jin i encounter plays like a pro even in low elo showing just how easy it is to play him now
Yeah, they made him way easier, but WAAAAY cooler, and he has way more skill expression now with the many different ways to play him and mixing them together, IMO it's almost perfect, reduce the skill floor but not the ceiling, but they reduced the floor a bit too much.
I don't really mind the dumb down as a Jin main but he still requires some execution to fully utilize him. Literally everyone is dumbed down anyways so I don't really mind the changes
I have been playing him since Tekken 3, so it’s nice to see him get a well needed buff. (Tekken 4 was insane though)
For me the worst chance that was made to the parry is that Jin is no longer able to Parry Power crushes and Rage Arts. (I might be wrong but I have tried to parry those two attacks and I'm always getting hit by them).
I'm not complaining, I wanted to learn to play with another character that was not law, if it is not to everyone's liking that it be simplified, I really see it as an unjustified complaint, I know that it was difficult for some people to perfect a character, the same happended to me with law, now everybody is a perfect dss master...but guess what
*"Just because you learned that way doesn't mean everyone should do it."*
Playing as Jin in Tekken 8 is super easy... barely an inconvenience.
His gameplan is braindead now, you can basically win win just demon paw and d+2.
I dont know why demon paw in this game is so fucking hard to step.
It’s just that most T8 characters need less execution but smarter strategy for the Heat System
Sooo... basically every character from t7 to t8? Maybe except leroy but all other characters got a lot of "easier" moves that synergize with their kits, people forget we are talkin about 2 different games. Jin in t8 ain't that much easier, definitely still tough to push into the higher ranks and still a high skill ceiling, he's still a mishima
I think they did a good job lowering the floor and making an appealing character for new players while also keeping the ceiling high , also it's kinda silly point out that the parry is more unsafe when trying to make the point that the new Jin is braindead
He's braindead. Jin can lock you down with his offense and his 50/50 is insane. He's completely busted and deserves to be top 5 IMO.
Incorrect scrub talk you have to be red rank talking like that
@@BecomingYourIdeal TE.
His 50/50 - He has EWGF a plus frame high that launches on normal hit, FF3 that's a safe normal hit launcher, and a hellsweep that either launches in some situations or gives the best oki setup possibly in the game. This is broken when you consider what else he has. He has no weaknesses.
His poking is amazing. His range is crazy. His counter hit game is some of the best. His tracking is excellent. His movement is excellent. Some of the best lows in the game if not the best. I think he's better than DJ. Every time I face anyone decent I get blown up. It isn't like this vs. any other fundamental character.
His. 50/50 is insane compared to who? Ewhf is good yes but his follow ups are not oppressive at all magic 4? F4? Another elec? His 50/50 is the slowest which gets fuzzied a lot. His oki is BETTER but best in the game? Red rank talk what dontoubgetbhit with after hell sweep? His counter hit game pshh d2,f4 niche trade magic 4 launch if you mashed those are his launchers outside heat. His backdash sucks and he only has 1 good reactable low dvj hell sweep is 16 frames and launches. his pokes name his good pokes?
@@BecomingYourIdeal Dude it's ok to admit your character is strong lol. Anyway I'm out.
@@Donalob get your skill up then return here
I disagree with the parry, it was broken af. The rest are acceptable. imo.
read the pinned comment
@@mwkan772 It wasn't pinned when I wrote my comment. Actually, we both commented 23 hours ago to your video.
Broken? Jins don’t spam it and you can still get launched from it most parries have a wider party window
only gamers who didn't work hard to master his moves in tekken 7 will aggree with you .
Easier combos overall don't necessarily mean baby mode. Many fighting games offer minimal button presses in exchange for less emphasis on "oh my god how did this combo go again" and more "how do I approach this fight?"
You're less likely to waste your time mastering difficult combos because you get to the good parts quicker (talking about the newcomers to Tekken rather than the seasoned players) meaning you get better quicker. That and T7 and T8 are MILES apart in the movement department. T7 feels so clunky after spending time in T8.
baby mode meaning even babys can jugle you with jin cause he's easier to play now and a slap in the face to guys that grinded their ass of .
I thought i was the only one who preferred t7's Jin.. they truly ruined him
To be fair all of his electrics are the worse version of the real Mishima electric. So WHF being a launcher is fine.
Otherwise I agree with you. Hell...not only Jin. Even Devil Jin went full GGStrive'd when compared to Tekken 7... You only need single electric and then easy 70+ damage combos
Made him a baby? The wave dashing is already harder then95% of the roster
lmao I'd argue Steve's duck cancels are harder
Is it tho? I been only playing Mishimas my whole life but I feel like ravens crouch dash is harder to do then wave dash. IMO ofc
@@ThicFig bro even if Jin is easier he is way harder then zafina lili and all of that bs for sure
@@Geheimnis-c2e bro everything about Steve is hard Steve isn’t a comparison 😂
Little bizarre to complain about the parry loosing its auto-block frames. That's the complete opposite of Namco babying the character, as it makes the parry less forgiving.
Jin Kazama before and after he believes in his heart.
Y’all need to stop hating. Making Jin more accessible is not a bad thing. And it’s not like they completely annihilated his depth.
No one's mad at you for playing Jin, he's just braindead now. It's ok.
Colour me old-fashioned but I think that people who want a character who's simple in terms of game plan and/or lacks taxing execution demands should pick a character who's already designed that way, of whom there have always been quite a few in Tekken, rather than demanding that a character who isn't designed that way be dumbed down to suit them. This blurring of the distinction between low- and high-execution characters is one of several things I detest about T8.
I'm not hating or anything..this is just a comparison video
I don't think most of it is the biggest problem.
He used to be complex, had to use all the moves in his arsenal.
In T8, d2 / 214 / df14 / f4 is all you need in the neutral. And all of those are on a roided version.
He isn't fun in this game, tho feels strong in capable hand.
Thankfully at least he is not an unga bunga one.
true
Well the way i see it
Its a huge win for us jin mains ( non sweaty ones )
Cuz yes T7 jin is really stylish but that comes with really high executions
T8 jin gives you a WAY more stylish jin with nearly zero executions ( n remember , T8 jin is already way more stylish than T7 jin even without the utilization of Zen cancels in his combos ) when we watch book's , cbm's , or devilster's jin in a tourney or online matches , we're like damn their jin is built different with the zen cancels n the microdash n all , in T8 we ain't gonna have to waste our time practicing for years n years to get those performance , we can get them in less than a day or 2 for intermediete jins , heck we can get an even way more stylish jin than t7 jin , and that is without zen cancels , imagine a fully labbed T8 jin 3 or 4 years from now WITH the Zen cancels
Thats my take
One more thing : DEH >>> dah
Peace
(Ps : oh and try and go watch Savage ogre's Jin CBT Combo Vid , you guys wont regret it )
They just brought back tekken 3 Jin.
My Tekken friend literally was a jin main in tek 7 but now he complains that they made him to easy so his now I think a lars or Brian main
I thought you're going to talk about lore 😵💫
I don’t mind the idea behind making him easier but this is just ridiculous lol
Jin's hook fist works like a wind god fist. Why is this an issue? He's just able to what his family members can do. Hook fist was a crappy move for a lot of the past games and now it actually has some use as a whiff punisher. And yet it's still worse than Kaz's or the others since he uses up his tornado off a hook fist. You're saying he's a baby character for having a worse WGF.
I used to have respect for Jin in T7 because i know that i’m facing a good player and i’m gonna have a good match but that’s not the case anymore he’s close to Hworang easy level
hwoarang is hard if your opponents are good, just learn the matchup man
Was agreeing with you until you said Hwoarang easy level lol.
Controlling Hwoarang efficiently requires a genius, and i don't even play Hwoarang.
There is also an easy electric from zen for whiff punishment, maybe not as reliable as one from neutral, still viable
Also in tekken 8, dashes can be buffered much easier. I think this is a good change though, it felt very awkward in tekken 7 for reason. So the $100 combo would still be really easy even if a microdash was required.
Parry in t7 was very dumb. If you want moves so completely phase through you, it should require proper timing
Look how they massacred my boy…. They also made zen cancels a just frame every time, and if you play on a 4 gate stick it’s basically impossible. So you’re not incentivized to do those either.
i gotta be honest, i get so sick that some moves have to be just frame to work properly. it's just difficult for the sake of being difficult.
Don't forget that can can is nearly useless now that zen u1 is a better whiff punisher and also more busted that 7's zen 1+2 ever was.
For me he feels mostly different in t8
Did this fool call WHF normal electric? This wind fist erasure wont be tolerated
Auto block on parry removal is a nerf that point is a bad one I still lab strings with Jin to get a better parry now it’s even harder
Tekken players and their execution...
You're missing the point. Tekken 7 Jin was exceptionally strong, and had moves that HAD to be hard to use for them to be balanced, because of how good the moves are. Execution isn't just a showcase of mechanical skill and a fun factor, but it's also to balance a character. Execution adds a layer of inconsistency that is needed to balance out a character. When execution is removed on a character that sort of needs it to be balanced, what do you think happens? They made his f+4 extremely hard to use for a reason in Tekken 7, and that reason was to balance it. So what do you think happens to his f+4 when they not only remove ALL execution to it, but also buff it's combo potential and utility?
@@Brainzzz123 That's honestly fair.
I admire this concept , it's still not true look at claudio's damage/ toddler execution or lars even despite him having no damage , or look at paul erasing your health with 2 hits , jin tekken 7 was unreasonably hard and the only real strong thing that needed true skill reaction is the parry u can go the easy ay out in tekken 7 with jin if u can electric , tekken 8 made jin accessible which is a must @@Brainzzz123
@@juiceer3320 You're saying as if there are no other characters in Tekken 7 besides Claudio, Paul and Lars lol
Old f4 was better cause of bad movement in game and better zen stance 1+2 was just dumb, and zen cancel is now harder, t7 Jin actually better I guess,2.4 knock down,hs launch bad movement make his 2.1 more annoying,db4 ch knock@@Brainzzz123
You get over it. They did it to Law as well.
the fucking t7 combos you did are not “great execution” man relax. they’re hardly different. cope.
Im a long time fan and player of jin and i like the way they are taking him but i despise the way everyones been robbed at high level play theres almost no difference combo wise like the 100$ combo was a means for strong players or f4 but its all universally doable and i really miss zen 3+4 its such a cool move but youll never really see it
😮Ehh some of those changes made the character harder.
Im surprised you didn't include the d2 claw he does which tracks gives frames and is a Ch launcher as well as great poke pressure tool. The nerfed hellsweep gives no combo but the d2 easily remedies that nerf for beginners.
As for the parry there is less incentive but players who do use it expertly like devilster and the alpha are so much better than advanced players who can't(CBM,Book,Arsenality). Devilster parry combo vs TMMSWE recently on Kazuya Petricide fist in a ft10 was literally optimal Jin players. Beginners or even advanced players can't compete with that.
As for the microdash combos i think its a welcome change because a huge factor in T7 power creep in new vs legacy characters were the impossible combos legacy characters like Jin Steve Kazuya had to do meanwhile the average Akuma Geese Eliza Noctis combos were easier hit harder and gave more oki/set up than the legacy characters mid but difficult combos.
I also noticed how Leroy dropped in play after making his combos a bit harder in T8. I rarely see any Leroy players.
They just want the game to be more accessible for newer players in other words they want more money they don’t care about making an honest game
Ah yes because introducing more players into the game is bad.
Elitist.
What I really dislike about Jin in T8 is his d2's CH launching property. I don't mind him being easy to pick up but I can't get over how stupidly rewarding d2 is. It should be either -16 or they simply remove the CH launch and I'd be 100% fine with Jin in this game and I'm saying this as a former Jin main.
A lot of these things were just unnecessarily complicated
devs either probably make him the ryu of the game
reminds me also how broken sol was in guilty gear strive as well back then his F.S
he is also the mc of that game too
i really really mis his 3,4 zen cancel b3 i almost gonna drop him in t8 cuz of that
don't be hating on his main character privileges.
I do agree with the video on the whole, though I do actually like the parry change. It being less safe incentivises good use of it imo. It feels great blowing up a string or a slow but advantageous mid with it. Its still a strong tool but it functions more like an actually parry now that it has some risk to it.
And one change i really like is the eCD1 addition of hitting grounded while the vanilla version doesn't. It feels so good hitting someone on the floor with it. My only gripe is in most situations, D+2 will also work for similar damage and lower execution at the cost of pressure afterwards. But thats a problem with how much D+2 does tbf. Regardless of that though, oki games with eCD1 are hella fun
Though i cannot deny that Jin on the whole feels much simpler..... though i can't complain too much, since unlike T7 i can now actually win with Jin 😅
So parry being harder is still an argument in favour of Jin being easier or what? The offence is easier and the defence is harder. That's a universal change. It's still pretty hard to win with this character compared to others as his heat mode is not that impressive.
"Jin is so hard to learn !! I hate jin !"
"Jin is soo easy to learn !! I hate jin !"
pathetic..
would be cooler if his parry was a little bit safer or reliable in exchange for reward
i always like to see cool moments like that, i also disagree with most of what you said, jin back in tekken 7 was really inconsistent
but i agree that combos need to have a little bit more "skill gap" as in progression to skill, most combos dont need much execution and deal good dmg.
besides wgf on block is -10, so atleast a seasoned player would be able to punish it.
you have to remember that we are only humans and tekken is a game that surpasses human abilities, also we are limited by time we cant really master jin entirely without being called a filthy fat slob lol
ig the point is the game is about making it more fun, not overly precise and perfective
Tbh my main gripe with t8 jin is that i am so tired of seeing b3f1
let's play some jin 😋
And you would prefer jin to be hard lol They already took out his parry auto block frames
You're talking about one character like the entire game isn't scrub friendly now. Lmao
This has happened to almost all characters except for Leroy. They made him hard mode.
No character specialist anymore.
No unique expression.
All the same. Weak.
lee is way harder than tekken 7
Call me a baby but I am pleased that they took out the zen cancel crap to make his f4 CH combos possible. It was such a barrier to using Jin properly in T7.
It was the only thing making it balanced.
Now it's the best CH move in the whole game with no contenders.
@@NahNah-et1ej I would still prefer 1 unbalanced move than 1 entire character that cannot be utilized by 90% of all Tekken players.
T7 is execution hard game, T8 they made it easy so that newcomer will play and stay
He's not wrong on most things but demonstrating the weakness of parry on a weapon character.... of course it wasn't going well bud.
Blame Harada. They want EZ mode everything.
I understand the sentiment, but I like the idea of an easily recognizable character for newcomers.
If you play Street Fighter, you might be told to play Ryu as a starter. If you play Guilty Gear, you might be told to play Sol as a starter. If you play Mortal Kombat, you might be told to play Sub Zero or Scorpion as a starter. The list goes on and on. Obviously this is just at the very beginning, and you're inclined to disagree.
In Tekken, on the other hand, you might be told to play Bob, or Jozie, or Katarina, or someone like that, and you might say: "who?".
It's not that big of a deal since it's more important to learn with a character you actually like, but I always found it interesting.
Making a reference to Avoiding the puddle $100 Jin , nice job stoner but keep it down ! Anyway thanks